Am I the only one who is angry?

[AnonymousDIL]

We cannot control how others react to us, only how we react to them. If we want to be treated with respect, we must treat other's with respect. Just because someone may call us a name or say other mean thing to or about us, we shouldn't respond in the same way, but be an example to them of how they should behave.

Just my 2 cents.

[overwhelmed123]

I do have to agree with ADIL about this.  Two wrongs do not ever make a right.

[AnonymousDIL]

I do have to agree with ADIL about this.  Two wrongs do not ever make a right.

I just heard about a chinese couple who just gave birth to the first Asian albino baby.... Two Wongs can make a White.... LOL

SOOOOO SORRY! That was soooooo wong... i mean WRONG... of me...... lol

[Scoop]

Whenever someone says "Two wrongs don't make a right!" I always think "But 3 lefts do!"

[themuffin]

I stand by my right to say what I feel in my own home.  I felt she was acting like the name I called her.  I was in my own home and I was not even talking to DS. GF was not present.  Unlike GF who called me at my job and than proceeded to harass me with text messages. My DS arrived at my home hostile. I am not a robot. I went out of my way to make GF feel welcomed in my home. 

I don't care if he or she took offense.  It's how I felt, it's how I feel and I'm sticking to it. And that's JMHO

[Scoop]

I think Muffin that it depends on your ultimate goal.  If your goal is reconciliation, then this path you're on doesn't seem to be heading that way.  If you goal is to stand up for yourself, and to enforce your own boundaries, well then I still think that you're doing it harshly and in a punitive way.

I do believe that you need to re-negotiate your relationship with your son.  I think you need to show him that he needs to treat you with respect and to not take advantage of you (or steal from you).  These are healthy boundaries and deserve to be enforced.

But I think you need some new strategies to learn how to do this.  I think that a counselor could really help you to deal with your anger at the past, your despair at the future and could give you some solid strategies on how to enforce your boundaries right now.  I know you said that you don't like the idea of a stranger hearing your deepest secrets, but maybe if you thought of it as a learning experience and in terms of what a counselor can teach you, it might change your mind.

[Scoop]

One more thing ... we are trying to help you.  Since your DS is not here, we can't talk to him.  We can only talk to you and really, YOU are the only one YOU can change.

[themuffin]

We cannot control how others react to us, only how we react to them. If we want to be treated with respect, we must treat other's with respect. Just because someone may call us a name or say other mean thing to or about us, we shouldn't respond in the same way, but be an example to them of how they should behave.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree with your post.  Truly I do. It makes perfect sense and in a perfect world that is how everyone would respond.  I do honestly try to live by that rule and I mostly suceed. However, I am human and I have reactions as well.  I doubt there are many people who have not uttered something in anger.  And I was angry.  I didn't rant and rave.  But I said what I said and I will not apologize for it.

I think my point was missed.  I will try to make myself understood.  It upset me that DS was so swift to come to her defense when he felt I had disrespected her, but wasn't so politically correct when it came to him defending me. 

My next point was that I don't think I should receive a reprimand by my son in my home.  My parents have said and done things I didn't agree with and never have I talked to them as if they were the child and I were the parent, be it right or wrong.

You have no idea what I've gone thru with these two.  I've only just joined a few days ago.  I found it unnerving that someone could few a few post and than find it appropiate to blame me for 50% whole percent, not just a part, but half, without even knowing half the story. 

Scoop,  my goal at this point is not reconciliation. My goal right now is peace of mind. I have tried to maintain a healthy relationship with my son and my efforts are disregarded.  My son has his own ideas of how he should behave and treat me in my own home and I strongly disagree.  It had gotten so bad that I wouldn't leave my room. 

Please explain harsh and punitive?  Harsh because I told him to leave, after he disrespected me yet again?  What was punitive?  Because I took the game as collateral because I know my son is not a man of his word and I would never receive any compensation.  Do you know how much money he owes us?

You seem to have the answers.  Please tell me what I need to do to show him that he needs to respect me.  Perhaps you know of something my husband and I haven't already tried.  I would love to hear your strategies.

I'm not angry with the past and I don't require counseling.  I'm upset with my treatment at present.  My treatment as late as just yesterday. 

Another thing Scoop, before you continue to comment on a situation you know only in part, my son doesn't have a healthy relationship with ANYONE!  It's not just me.  He doesn't have a healthy relationship with his father (father never wanted him to come back, it was me that convinced him), his brother won't even talk to him and I assure although I wish he would forgive, his feelings are justified.  His current relationship is full with cheating, a has even been physical whereas I had to protect her with my own body (but she wasn't innocent either).  He has never been able to keep a friend for any extended period of time.

So go ahead Scoop please tell me how I can fix me in order to fix him!


My balloon has been deflated.  I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but if you are going to pass judgement at least know the facts.  I deeply hurt and disappointed to have to defend myself here. 

[Keys Girl]

the muffin,are you kidding me? fix you? what have you stolen recently???

I disagree with the whole "two wrongs don't make a right" theology when dealing with a con artist.  You are talking about criminal behaviour and that's where the cops come in.  Go talk to them and I'm sure they will have some good advice for you.

A home without a thief and his girlfriend is a much quieter place to sleep at night.  I see the whole whatever you said to the GF as a total non event.  Girl Friends come and go, some people shed them like kleenex. 

The bigger issue is will your son pull up his socks and start acting like a respectable adult and not a petty thief.  A con artist is a con artist....and when it's your son, it's even more difficult to deal with.......but I would carry on and change everything.........change your bank accounts, change everything you can, email addresses, etc.etc.  That's the only change you need to make in my mind.

I would be happy to get my son or anyone else out of my home if it meant I could leave my purse on a table without worrying that it was going to be emptied (I think you posted this recently).

And, forget the whole "healthy boundaries" school of thought, a con artist/thief is a con artist and they usually come back.......again and again.  It's very sad but you need to protect yourself and your future, before he does any more damage.

Con artists always have a lot of words, phrases, blame shifting guilt tactics, that's why they can get away with what they do.  Using those kind of tactics on your mother is really malicious in my mind.

This is not my first day at the rodeo, and I've seen many, many people victimized by their adult children, make a change, give some thought to moving to another state, and don't tell him which one.  If he grows up and puts his "big boy" panties on some day, he'll show you in actions why he deserves to be in your home again.  People who use deeds to show the world who they are don't need to use the BS which baffles brains, their deeds speak for them.

Good for you, themuffin, it's difficult to accept that your son would act this way, but some times the best way to add something to your life is to subtract something.



PS. Go give the local cops a heads up and see if they have any feedback, talk to your insurance agent and see if something can be done, and never, ever ever, pay bills of any kinds for anyone else ever again.

[AnonymousDIL]

But I said what I said and I will not apologize for it.

I think my point was missed.  I will try to make myself understood.  It upset me that DS was so swift to come to her defense when he felt I had disrespected her, but wasn't so politically correct when it came to him defending me. 

It is you decision to apologize or not apologize. As far as the next statement, Well, Chica, I don't think it is your DS's job to stand up for YOU that would be your DH. HE should have stood up for YOU the way that DS stood up for his GF.

[themuffin]

But I said what I said and I will not apologize for it.

I think my point was missed.  I will try to make myself understood.  It upset me that DS was so swift to come to her defense when he felt I had disrespected her, but wasn't so politically correct when it came to him defending me. 

It is you decision to apologize or not apologize. As far as the next statement, Well, Chica, I don't think it is your DS's job to stand up for YOU that would be your DH. HE should have stood up for YOU the way that DS stood up for his GF.

Is there a reason why I'm on the attack?  Well, Chica, in response to your reply, YES, I feel a son should stand up for his mother! And my DH was not around as we both work at seperate locations.  However, when he learned of what GF said he told DS that it better not happen again. Only he didn't say it so nice.

[AnonymousDIL]

As a DIL (realize she is just a GF not a DIL at this point), my point of view is very different. If my DH all of a sudden reprimanded ME by standing up for his oh so precious mumsy, Well, let's just say it wouldn't end too well. It is NOT his job to stand up for you. Your DH can do it. Or you can do it yourself. No your son shouldn't be disrespectful towards you, But, He is now an adult. The rules between Mother/Child change drastically when a child becomes an adult.

[themuffin]

Ahhh...Stupid me being so new to the site didn't even put together the DIL after your name.  No wonder you're on the defensive.  I know there are some wonderful DILs and there are some really awful MILs.  Or as in this case GFs and mothers.  I adore my MIL. She is a staple in our marriage and I thank God for her. 

I imagine that you are a wonderful DIL or would be if allowed, so you feel that I've been unfair toward GF.  But you are wrong.  And I assure you that I tried to treat GF like a member of my own family.  I would bring her gifts just because.  I would make special dinners because she's a picky eater.  I would listen to her problems after a hard day of work although there were other things I needed to do.  What you don't know is that when my own mother told me that she was causing the problems in my home I defended her (and yes, Jr. got worst when he met her.  Always stole but he was still sweet), Hubby said she had to go. See, what you didn't know was that I took her in because her mother threw her out.  She went to stay with son who had a room at the time, and as a result they both got thrown out.  She told me horror stories about her young life and my heart hurt for her.  I wanted to show her that she was worthy of love. When my son cheated on her and she cried I never defended him, but asked why would he hurt her when he claimed to love her.  I gave her comfort and I text messaged her daily affirmations telling her she was beautiful and special and deserved to be loved without being hurt.  She missed her brothers and sisters but couldn't see them because she wasn't allowed at the house.  I let her bring them to my house.  I feed them too when they came. I also gave them gifts.

But you know what she did?  She played both sides of the fence.  She was the one who would tell me all of the things my son said and felt about me.  Saying she didn't know what was wrong with him and that he needed help.  When I responded back to some of the ugly things that were being said with annoyance and yes, anger, she would go back and tell him that I was talking about him like a dog.  Mean while I was only responding to the things she was telling me. 
It got to the point that I would ask her not to tell me anything bad about him because it only upset me and I didn't want to dislike him more. But you know what she? She kept doing it.

So Son was upset with me for talking bad about him, and I was upset with him for talking bad about me and in the mean time it occured to me that he and I weren't talking at all!  And all of our negative issues were coming back and forth from GF.  So I approached DS not long ago and I said we need to talk to each other.  I told him that I loved him very much, but we don't talk anymore.  Everything I know about you I hear from GF and everything you know about me you hear from GF.  I said, we need to stop that because I know I come across as a "blank" and you come across as another "blank".  I said we used to always talk, lets talk again.  He said "okay mama".  Two days later GF texted me, called me and hunted me down so she could meet with me.  She wanted to ask if I snooped in there room.  So here I was after working all day as GF told me that if I was snooping they couldn't live that way.  She repeatedly asked me about snooping in my own house.  I felt mouse size because I was being interogated by this 20 yr old (I'm 42) about snooping in my home as if they had anything I cared enough to see. She said she tried to convince DS I didn't snoop but he insisted that I was nosey and went thru their things whenever they left the house.

The conversation that broke the camels back was because DS said that he's knows I talk about him behind his back.  I had tried to be a replacement mother to GF right until that point.  Because it was right at that point that I had confirmation of what was going on.  There was no one else (I know for a fact) that would have told him that.

There is so much more and I don't even know how to write it all. But tons of stuff you know nothing about.  This girl is sneaky and devious and I think she resents that he cared for me at all.  Not saying she's all to blame because no one could turn me against my mother. 

YOur views on how son should treat his mother differ from mine and that of my other son.  Because I tell you this, when DS got loud and nasty with me the brother that no longer speaks to him came out of his room and said nothing, but stood by in case I needed his help.  I thanked God that DS said nothing as the last thing I would have wanted was for them to come to blows.

I think I will be taking a break.  I feel just as stressed as I did before I joined and that sorta defeats the purpose of looking for support. 
Have a great weekend ladies.

[overwhelmed123]

Themuffin, I think you would benefit from reading our new thread- Conflict on WWU.

I think they have given you some pretty solid advice.  In almost every relationship problem, there are 2 people at fault.  That's where Scoop's 50% came in.  You have to own your personal behavior.  You are 50% of a relationship between 2 people. 

Ask yourself honestly- if your son's GF had called you whatever name she called you in their OWN residence, would it have been okay?  Would her insult have been excused because "it was in her own home?"  I don't think so.  And I think if you say you would have been fine with it, you'd be kidding yourself.  I don't think it was okay for either of you, and I don't think making an excuse that you can say whatever you want in your own home makes it any better.  Disrespectful is disrespectful.  If you're saying it with no one else around but your DH, in your own home, that's totally different.  But you seem like a smart lady.  I think you get the difference.

I don't think you've really answered the question at hand: what do you want to accomplish with your son?  This last episode- you came off as very combative.  If all you want is for him to leave you alone forever and ever, then you're probably one step closer to that.  And like the girls are saying, your son isn't here- you are- and all you can control is yourself.

I understand your frustration with the cookbook thing, but I think there was a much more mature way to go about it.  You know, legally you cannot hold somebody's personal property because they owe you something- you take them to small claims court.  You could have kicked them out of your home plenty of times if you didn't feel they were pitching in their fair share, but you chose to let it play out as long as you did and now you want revenge by keeping the cookbook because you feel you're owed something.  Maybe you are, but if that's the case, you should have gone about collecting it head on as it happened.  Not bartered with them after the fact for a cookbook that belongs to them.

I don't even think it's about being "fair" to the GF, I think it's just about mutual respect.  If you don't like her, then fine, but I think the main problem here is your son.   I strongly recommend not even responding to anymore text messages from her or attempts to call, it will only add fuel to the fire.

Again, what are you seeking in this relationship with your son?  Have you completely given up on any kind of relationship with him, or do you want a middle ground to have in common?  I think the previous advice has been given in the event that you do want to maintain some kind of contact with him.  If so, the combative nature probably needs to end and a more productive conversation can begin between the two of you.

[overwhelmed123]

BTW- "Conflict on WWU" is in the Grab Bag category- I think you would benefit from reading it, muffin.