son moving out

[Doe]

oh, I see.  Here, if the police gets a domestic violence call, someone is arrested.  But then here, if you take someone's hand and say "Please don't go" or take someone's cell phone away from them, that is entrapment. 

[elsieshaye]

It's amazing to me how significant jurisdictional differences can be.  And very little of it is stuff you can know without actually having experienced it.  I'm scared to move out of the area now, lol.  Too much to learn!

[Pooh]

I think it is different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction Doe.  Here, they will do what Elsie said too, as long as there hasn't been any physical contact.  Physical contact...yep...someone is giving their fingerprints.  Now once an apartment complex, store or such has specifically told the person not to come back (ban) with the Officer as a witness, then next time...they will go to jail.  But that's for businesses.  Individuals will be advised to go get an order of protection so that the Officer can arrest them if there is a next time.

[Rose799]

This isn't an immature man, this is a man with an addiction problem that doesn't think he has one. 

I think Pooh's got it right.  Granted, he's only 18, but he's got bigger issues that need to be dealt with.  Alanon, etc. have experience that many of us don't.  I hope they can guide you so that ds comes out on top.  You're a strong person, Elsie, & because you love ds, you'll muster the strength to do what's necessary.  You know him better than anyone; follow your instincts... 

[Begonia]

Elsie:  You need to keep being brave.  It is impossible to negotiate with someone who is under the influence of drugs.  This volatile behavior of his points to a dangerous situation.  Once you weaken you will be back to square 1 and so will your son.  It is not about parenting or not parenting, or being a mom or not, it's about your safety. 

It sounds like you have been on quite a merry-go-round.  My heart goes out to you in love for all that you have come through, and your son too.  Once you establish a boundary that he knows you mean, things will change.  IMO the storage thing would set you back to that co-dependent relationship again.  He obviously can do fine on his own and it's just that he can't do drugs AND work and he knows it.  This might be an important crossroad for him.  I am one to never give up hope, but I know that I have been an enabler in loving too much and when I finally drew the line things are beginning to fall into a respectful place with my DD and DS. 

"I love him but I will not tolerate any of this behavior any more, period."  Just keep saying that to yourself.  Sending strength and love to you.  And, as an aside, do you have a domestic shelter for women near you?  They are wonderful to help if you don't feel safe, and they have great people on their phones that you can visit with, night and day.   

[Nana]

Dear Elsie

So sorry you have all these problems with ds.  We have loved and cared for them and is heartbreaking to see our children destroying their lives.  But we can only do what we can only do.    The rest lies on our children's determination.  Hope he finally gets it.  You are doing just what you have too to help him out.....let him figure the rest.  My thoughts are with you.  You are a strong and determined wise lady...having trouble with not so wise ds lol.

Love you Elsie

[elsieshaye]

@Begonia - Thanks.  I'm, by nature, an enabler too, and it's only in the last couple of years that I've understood better how that plays out in my life.  DS has been a good teacher in that regard.  I will check around to see if there is a domestic violence hotline that I can just hang on to the number for, in case "Penitent DS" gets replaced by "Scary DS" again.  I'd love to think that the humbleness he showed Sunday is real and permanent, but I know better than to think that kind of quick change is possible.

@Nana - Thank you. 

[elsieshaye]

So, I get an email last night that he's been living in his father's town 300 miles away since Tuesday morning. He has other friends there, so I asked him who he was with, and he said his father. I'm really glad he's safe, but I'm pretty sure his father will focus on how the whole thing is my fault and will enjoy his role as "rescuer" of our son. All of DS's life, the ex has blamed everyone else for both his own and DS's behaviors. DS has always been angry with me for not "sticking up for him" more, and demanding that he have consequences for his actions. (I stood in court more than once and told the judge that, since he had been threatening DS repeatedly with juvenile detention if he didn't stop committing probation violations, we'd better follow through at some point or stop saying it. I was scared my son would have worse problems if he didn't get consequences. DS and his father both accused me of not loving DS, and DS has told me in the past that, even though he acknowledges that his behaviors were wrong, he wanted me to be more like his father and "back him no matter what.") The emails are superficially polite but fairly cutting. I think I am just going to have to accept that DS and I aren't going to have a relationship for quite a while. On the up side, he's going to be picking up his belongings sometime in the next month, and I can walk down the street in my own neighborhood without worrying about aggressive confrontations. Still sucks, and I'm very sad, although I'm glad he's physically safe and hope this helps him get straightened out.

[Doe]

They sound like quite a pair!

I'm glad that he found safe haven far away from you. 

[Ruth]

Elsie, I know how you feel darling.  Your history is very similar to mine.  When my DS when back to live with his father (copy and paste same as yours) it was the insult added to injury just as you describe.  For a time, it will be this way Elsie.  But the world will turn, and this will not be a smooth ride.  Your DS will gradually come to himself, like the prodigal son when he is only too happy to eat with the pigs, because 'no one gave him anything', and he will remember you.  And you will not look the same in his mature eyes.  He will then see you through the eyes of love and gratitude.  Until that time comes, you have to wait and keep sailing on. 

I have been surprised to receive TWO decent little emailsl from my estranged DS in the past month, one saying he 'heard I was sick and hoped I was feeling better', and one saying 'thanx! (would someone pick me up off the floor please) for the money you sent and a few more friendly words.  This is all new, but its only happened since my detachment.  I do believe there's hope for relationship for all of us, at some point in time, but maybe not on our terms, but when is life ever on our terms???

[sesamejane]

I have been reading this thread, and everyone has had such great things to say.  Elsie you have done the right thing.  I just want to let you know about one future that is possible. My eldest daughter (od) had significant drug and alcohol problems on and off in high school and in her early twenties.  She was rude and I sometimes worried that she would not survive.  In fact, the judge and everyone was angry with me becasue I took her out of high school to enroll her at a jr. college because the high school was full of drugs. Taht is where she was doing them!  I was afraid she might hit me, and the things she said were awful. She lied not only to me but to anyone that would listen.

When she started getting better in her mid twenties (on her own because I had asked her to leave and would not let her back years before), she still blamed me for all her woes: "You were too strict!"  She is now 30, and although there are rough moments beause she can be very self-centered, she is much much improved and has built a life for herself.  She even calls me, sometimes frequently, for advise or just to hear my voice.

*but* I had to draw a line in the sand and keep drawing that line.  I had to protect myself and in so doing, I believe, it helped her grow up.  I too thought that she was a sociopath or something; she was so cruel and seemed to have no scruples (sex, drugs, stealing).  However, as it turns out, she does have a moral compass.  She has done an almost 360 - takes good care of herself, into cooking and yoga, and was trained in massage therapy.  So....hang in there, and take care of yourself.  He is the "pilot" of his own ship now.   I hope he does better in the future because I know it hurts to watch him slowly killing himself.  I think you have to respect his path and convey that respect to him. I even said that to my daughter, "I have decided to respect the path you have chosen.  It is not the one I would have chosen for you, but it is clear you are in charge of your life."  something like that.   (that will shock him when he realizes it's totally in his ball park and you are prepared to accept him and his choices - just not in your house!).  Once you get the hang of it, it is a great place to be - you can still love  him but you learn to love yourself too.

Much love to you Elsie - been missing you and hope you are well.

[Pooh]

Well good!  Let your Ex "rescue him" as it sounds like as DS was growing up, Ex wasn't helping him by enabling him and not letting there be consequenses.  So let Ex deal with what he has created.  When he finds out that enabling DS now is just going to make it worse, he can blame whoever he wants but will have to face the mirror.

Ha!  Enjoy the peace and quiet Elsie, you have earned it.  I wouldn't ask any more questions if DS emails you, just respond politely and talk about anything but his issues.  He needs to deal.

[elsieshaye]

Good grief - just got a call from DS to make arrangements to pick up his stuff.  I told him I'd get back to him.  Apparently, they're getting a relative to pay for the gas and moving costs and, because this relative doesn't trust them any further than she could throw them, she requires a confirmation email from me.  Once he gets his stuff, though, the upside is that I don't have to deal with either of them for a while.

[Pooh]

Hang in there Elsie.  Makes you wonder that if this relative has enough doubts that she wants a confirmation email, why she would even do this for them.  I give up trying to understand people.

[elsieshaye]

Because she's kind-hearted, and thinks that she's helping.  She has a habit of, instead of just saying no (because it makes her feel like a bad person), she agrees to help but puts all kinds of conditions on it.