son moving out

[Pooh]

Again Elsie, I applaud you for sticking to this.  He's still trying to play you.  He knows good and well why he can't stay there...he is trying to play the victim.  Elsie, I love your plan of giving him 3 months, but I have to ask you to think about something.  It seems like he is continuously coming by or calling using the excuse "I need this....I need that."  Part of your turmoil is having to deal with him on a daily basis still.  Knowing when the phone rings, it may be him or a knock on the door is sending you into a panic, understandably.  Do you think it would be in your best interest to make him get all his stuff now and be done with it?  Kill his excuses for dropping by and calling constantly? 

I'm just thinking about your mindset right now and trying to think how to eliminate some of the stress off of you.  As long as his stuff is there, he will feel entitled to come by with the reasoning that he needs his things.  Just want you to think about that.

I'm still very proud of you.  I know this is very hard but you are doing what's right.

[elsieshaye]

Pooh, I understand what you mean.  My only real option for that is to tell him that he has a week to make arrangements orall his stuff will be out by the dumpster next Saturday.  That's only a step I'm willing to take if he asks me for something again, and it's kind of the nuclear option, so I'm holding it in reserve.  What I was planning on doing the next time he contacts me is to tell him that I don't want to hear from him at all unless it's to make arrangements to move all his stuff.  No conversation, no explanations, no pleas. 

[Pooh]

Great idea Elsie.  I think with him right now, it's all or nothing.  Something has to shake him up and make him want to change.

[Rose799]

Does he have a job, Elsie?  Since you said you'd give him 3 months, how about renting a storage room for that amount of time?  That way he'll take you seriously & know he's got 3 months to get his act together.  He'll have access to his stuff, & just maybe in that span of time, he'll have an entirely different perspective.  And Elsie, it might even be long enough for his heart to grow fonder of Mom.  Take him out for a meal now & then, then you'll know he isn't going hungry.     They call it tough love for good reason...  ((hugs))

[elsieshaye]

I'm in the middle of a text exchange w/DS.  He wanted to meet at a cafe to talk, because he doesn't understand what he did wrong.  I responded that I'd already explained it was about the alcohol, drugs and pervasive disrespect.  He apologized, and I told him that words didn't mean anything without positive action behind them.  I suggested 3 places he could go for help, but told him that he burned the bridge of being able to stay with me. 

No response yet. I predict he'll show up outside the door again, at which point I'm calling the cops. Maybe they can steer him towards the shelter or some other place.  I'm a little worried about his state of mind, but I mostly feel that he thinks that if he throws the right words at this, he can fix it.  Because that's worked before, so many times.

Rose, he doesn't have a job, although in one of his texts he told me he's been applying to two jobs a day all week.  I'm considering the storage room rental, but am hesitating because of the cost (including truck rental, b/c I don't own a car).  I also can't lift the furniture myself.  The real sticking point for me was not having him contact me all the time for stuff, so if he keeps his distance for a bit, I am less bothered by storing the stuff in my apartment.  I am not going to take him out for a meal for a good long time - it's a slippery slope, and what's really important right now I think is to cut that string of me being the one he expects to meet all of his needs for him. 

I also don't think 3 months is long enough for real perspective change on his part.  He spent a year away in a group home, and the positive effects of that didn't last more than 6 months before all his old behaviors came back in force.  As hard and scary as it is, I really feel that I need to be entirely out of the equation for a good long while so that he can get on his own two feet.  I don't think it'll "take" otherwise, because he tends to do and say whatever he needs to in order to get out of the momentary crisis, and then backslide as soon as he feels it's safe to do so.

[Rose799]

I get what you're saying...  Having been away for a year prior, I can see where 3 months probably won't change much.  Raising dc isn't for the faint of heart~  I'm so sorry, Elsie. 

[Doe]

I want to chime in, feeling a little more compassionate today.  I don't think you should call the cops unless he is getting violent.  I think he could benefit from being able to talk to you, just not at your home.  He sounds like he desperately needs someone to be a beacon of light in all this confusion.  You don't need to give him any money or a place to stay, but I have a feeling he might start listening to you at some point once the drugs get out of his system (drugs that he can't afford at this point.)    You can both get stronger.

[Ruth]

I've thought of you so often this w/e Elsie, but my family has been in crisis here so I haven't been online.  Rose had such a good line elsie, she said he isn't cooked, he's very young and he's testing the limits.  You will find the balance between tenderness and empathy, and strength and detachment.  it is very hard, I've felt your same emotions, the terror of what could happen and how will I be able to handle it, and the voices that start in trying to make you second guess yourself, and the voice of your DS who knows the buttons to push and is remorseless to push away and milk you dry if he can.  But this is just the survival mechanism in troubled kids his age.  I believe if I were you I'd write myself a script and have it handy every time he calls or shows up, and keep repeating over and over, reaffirming your love for him, which is a love strong enough to force him to extricate himself from a lifestyle that will destroy him.  Repeat like a robot to him why he is gone, the rules he violated and the lies he told, all his choice.  You kept your end, he bailed.  You need people on the ground to help you, and him also, I hope you have a good al anon group near you.  Is it possible he could have to drug screen, and one dirty screen put him back on the street?  I'm just thinking of how very young he is, and the risk of where he could go seeking shelter.

[Pooh]

His behavior when he left was very condescending and belittling. Lots of comments about how cowardly and stupid I was, plus attempts to push buttons about how I had done the same thing to his father and to my father - rejected them "when things became a little bit difficult." He suggested that a more appropriate response would have been to keep taking the abuse, but "shift my perceptions" about it so that it didn't bother me. Funny, but his father told me almost exactly the same thing once. That the only reason his behavior was a problem for me is that I chose to make it a problem.

I wanted to go back and quote this out again.  This is why you are doing the right thing.  Until he seeks help with his addiction and problems, he is going to use every tactic he knows to try and get you to do what he wants.   This isn't an immature man, this is a man with an addiction problem that doesn't think he has one. 

I wouldn't pay for anything else either Elsie.  And as painful as I know it is for you, I think you are right that you need totally out of the equation at this point until he seeks help.

[elsieshaye]

Ruth and Doe,

The key to DS getting a grip on his life is realizing that depending on me to rescue and fix is no longer an option.  Ruth, he can't stay with me anymore.  He'd be cooperative with the first urine test, but not the second, and so it goes.  We've been down this road before, and the minute he starts feeling more secure, he becomes defiant and aggressive again.  Yes, he's not "cooked" yet, but he's also not as helpless as all that.  This is a kid who organized and led a shoplifting ring when he was 15.  He's pretty independent and resourceful, but assumes a certain level of comfort and ease, and only tries if he has to.

I'm going to keep in touch with him, but I'm not going to be more active in helping him until he's made some progress on his own.

Ruth, I'm sorry your family is in crisis.  My thoughts are with you.

E.

[elsieshaye]

Thanks, Pooh. 

[lancaster lady]

what you're doing Elsie , is very commendable .
We are not in your shoes and don't know what you have been through over the years .
I can imagine how hard it is to keep refusing him .
He sounds as if he can stand on his own two feet , you have been used enough .
It's now up to him to prove he can change for the better .
good Luck to you E..x

[Ruth]

I am here to learn, and I appreciate all the candor and honesty and patience, you are all teaching me so much.  I am the first to admit that chronological age isn't indicative of emotional maturity or level of personal responsibility and accountability.  I have confidence in you Elsie!!  in how well you know your DS and regardless of whether or not he's 12 or 20, you have that gut knowledge of what he needs at this given point in his life.  I had a lot of suffering years because I looked back on my children's upbringing and compared my parenting ways with other parents of very docile, nonconfrontative children and berating myself continually.  My children were very very mature and street smart from an early age, and they ate my lunch.   I have a real problem with believing the best of everybody because I live my life from the standpoint of continually gauging my actions toward other people, and I have huge empathy.  This doesn't always make for good parenting.  Keep going forward Elsie.  Thank you again Pooh for good judgement and great communication skills.

[Doe]

Hi E-

I didn't mean that you should rescue/fix him, just not have him arrested unless he's violent.  I think you could continue to talk to him without providing things for him.  It might be good for you to help you realize that you are the stronger of the two.

[elsieshaye]

Doe, thanks.  In my area, they wouldn't arrest him.  The police here see a lot of their role in working with domestic situations as being defusers and facilitators.  They'd come talk to him, escort him off the property, and try to keep him calm.  If, and only if, he got violent, would they arrest him.  However, he's not a fan of the police, for obvious reasons, so the simple fact of them being called, let alone showing up, would help him back down.  He gets into this obsessive do-loop, where he becomes insistent and very stubborn and rant-y.  Part of my reluctance in talking to him is how quickly he escalates, even when he's not high, and how pushy he becomes.  It can go from calm and productive to crazypants in the span of a couple of minutes, if he is not in the right frame of mind to listen rather than push.  Based on past experience with him, I'd rather call the police early, before he goes into orbit, rather than have them try to deal with him when he's already angry.  It's one thing to meet him somewhere else to talk, but quite another if he shows up at my door suddenly.  Just by doing that, he's showing me that he's not willing to respect boundaries (particularly since he knows the building will get a tresspassing order against him if he keeps just showing up) and that anger has trumped judgement.   It's only downhill from there, usually.