estranged son

[Pooh]

Hee hee.  If I am going on a date with my DH, and I want to send out certain signals, I know exactly how to dress to send those signals.  I don't buy into the Bologna that women don't know what they are doing.

[holliberri]

We are ultimately responsible for our own reactions to people. I'm not saying I haven't had negative reactions toward people based on what they wore, but I've been trying very hard to work through that. I also try very hard to not make that known and give a person a chance despite outward initial appearances. 

I feel that women should be able to wear whatever they want, if it makes them feel good. It is up to the men to resist calling them names, grabbing them, cat calling or whatever is done nowadays. The risque attire seems like such a slippery slope; I've heard it used in rape cases, sexual harassment cases and I've seen photos where one woman had a button more unbuttoned than maybe I would have (not what I would call risque). What is risque to one person may not be to another (cross-culturally speaking, modesty speaking), and I don't think there is a fine line as to what is appropriate and what is not. As long as we're blaming the victim, the perpetrators can continue their treatment of other people as they would like without suffering consequences..and the behavior will remain unchanged.

I can't control what someone else will wear, but I can control how I'll treat them for it. I realize this is contrary to what society teaches us, but there are some cases where I wish society would change...and this is one of them. Although I'm not without my preconceived notions of people, I probably need to keep them in check when getting to know someone.

I'm a feminist at heart, so maybe there is just a little of that coming through. Even if someone is scantily clad, tattooed, pierced, and who knows what else, they are owed the same protection that I would expect, because harm done to her means that harm could easily be done to me for no other reason than what I'm wearing. I don't expect to be groped and called names, so I don't expect that treatment of her either. I believe that if she weren't around dressed like that, men that do that sort of thing would make me their next target (or 3rd or 4th) and I do consider myself Ms. Modest.

[Pooh]

As long as we're blaming the victim, the perpetrators can continue their treatment of other people as they would like without suffering consequences..and the behavior will remain unchanged.

Whoa..back the train up.  You are talking about something totally different than what I was.  I said attention, not physically attacking or groping.  I wasn't talking about a woman being harrassed.  I was talking about a female that can't believe a man would approach her dressed provocatively.  What you are talking about is totally different.

And I totally agree with you that we shouldn't base first impressions on what someone is wearing, but I do it all the time.  I give them a chance and try to get to know them, but if I am walking in my neighborhood at night, and a thug looking guy starts approaching me with his dark hoodie pulled over his head and baggy pants, I am leary.  Not saying that's right or wrong, just that it's true in my case.

[Pooh]

And holli, I do get what you are saying.  A person should be able to dress how they want without fear of retribution.

[holliberri]

I didn't think that was what you were talking about. I was speaking more in hyperbole, and I should have said that. I think there are a few fine lines in that sort of situation: what a girl is wearing is one, and what a man does is another.

I can wear what I want, and you're welcome to approach me: once. I would take no offense to that. If I say no (or now, if I say, "Hey, married, sorry...move along") and he keeps on that subject, the problem is him, not what I'm wearing. I would interpret that kind of behavior as harassment; I'm not exactly sure what your friend goes through at the bar, though.

I dress a little differently in the summer, or if I'm happy, or if... "You know what? I worked my tail off to get these calves just right and the perfect accessories are a 6 inch pair of Jimmy Choos and a mini-skirt," but the point is, I dress for me. Having said that, I don't even own a pair of Jimmy Choos and my mini-skirt is from 2003, but still, as soon as I get back on that treadmill; I do expect my self-esteem to go up, and my clothing to tighten up along with it...I don't have any other goal than that. That doesn't mean that unwanted attention is okay.

I did just hurt my coworkers feelings. He always wears sweats and a tee, and I said 'Have fun at the gym!' today. He has a herniated disk, he hasn't been to the gym in two years (he was a body builder before), but he has to wear comfy clothing b/c of how much pain he is in. Again, my assumptions have once found me in a little trouble.

In terms of tattoos...I don't have one, but I did hear they're addicting. I would think that would mean that sometimes, the average Joe winds up with 20 more than he ever would have intended originally. Again, sometimes.

[luise.volta]

When was in management at Aetna Life and Casualty, I was actually sent home for wearing a pants suit. (I was lobbying for them to change the dress code) I went to a thrift shop and got the most awful dresses you can even imagine...then I wore them every day along with no make up and a a pony tail with a rubber band around it. When I was confronted, I just looked confused and said..."but I'm within the dress code, right?" 

[holliberri]

LOL, Luise.

I wore a sleeveless shirt (not a tank, not a spaghetti strap thing, more like a vest) in the first grade. The teacher told me not to, and when my mom put it out for me, I told her I couldn't wear it.

Mom marched up to the school with it in hand and threatened to make me wear it everyday if they didn't change the dress code. They told her they were afraid of sexual harassment in the school (in first grade!?).

I was, just a mortified 6 year old  at the time (Mom, come on!!  ), but I do see her point, now.

[Pooh]

I gotcha holli.  I agree that once is ok, twice is looking for you to get a well placed knee  .  My friends complaints are simply that guys approach her.

Tattoos, oh lol.  I actually have two.  I got my first when I was 32, after making sure that at that age, I still wanted it, and it wasn't a whim.  Wait for it....it's a Pooh!  You got a shocked face?  I did take into my thought process, what society would dictate.  I worked in a place where I had to wear dresses many days, and dress professionally.  So I didn't want to wear a dress and worry about my tattoo showing.  So the artist, helped me place in on my shoulder, to what they call, the inside of a sundress.  The only time it shows is if I have spaghetti straps or a bathing suit on, and it is rare that you will catch me with either of those.  Did I let society dictate that?  Yes, in a way I did.  My friends got them on their ankle areas, and every time they wore a dress, you saw them and even though we shouldn't have to worry about it, it didn't give off a professional appearance. 

The 2nd one I got last year, after I decided I wanted to get one for my DH.  It is special to only he and I, and again, I had it placed where it would not show unless I wanted it to.  My friends that got them, have found them addictive and gone back after several more.  I didn't find it addictive, but I like the ones I have.  They each have special meaning to me and I also love art so much, I enjoy the artistic aspect of them as well.

If you saw me, you would never guess in a million years that I had tattoos. 

[Pooh]

When was in management at Aetna Life and Casualty, I was actually sent home for wearing a pants suit. (I was lobbying for them to change the dress code) I went to a thrift shop and got the most awful dresses you can even imagine...then I wore them every day along with no make up and a a pony tail with a rubber band around it. When I was confronted, I just looked confused and said..."but I'm within the dress code, right?" 

Hee hee 

[Pooh]

Oh, and you guys will get a kick out of why my DH doesn't have one.  He wants one very badly, but his exact words...and I quote, "My Mother would kill me."

[LaurieS]

All I know is if you dress and present your self in a certain way and end up on the Walmart Shoppers Site.. I'm going to shake my head, wonder how disgusting some people can be.. then laugh at you for getting yourself put on the Walmart site.

[holliberri]

Awee...but I thought that the Walmart Shoppers Site Christmas Edition was kind of cute... 

Laughing about what people wear is different than actually treating them differently. I think you can laugh at attire, without laughing at the person. Although, if I didn't think that, it might not make much sense for me to look forward to the Oscar Worst Dressed List as I do every year.

Although, I don't think laughing at the get-up your child's significant other is in would be wise, at least on the first few meetings, unless it's Halloween or Carnivale.

[LaurieS]

But at the same time you have the right to decide if this is how you want to portray yourself.  If I had a kid who was covered head to toe in tattoos, purple and green glow in the dark mohawk, and spikes embedded in his forehead.. I should also be respected for not wanting to be seen associating with that person.  As much as it's their choice, it's mine as well.   And yeah I've actually laughed at some of the Walmart shoppers.. not just how they are dressed.

[holliberri]

LOL, not associating with someone or being embarrassed about their appearance is okay, I think.

As for the WalMart Shoppers, I seriously had a guy come up to me last night and tell me not to buy their ice cream (I was in the hamper/laundry aisle so why he thought I was concerned about ice cream I have no idea). I ignored him...he then said, "They take half the ice cream out of the container and mark it down only 25%." He was going on and on as I was walking away.

I think he gave me a reason to laugh at him. Actions are different than clothing. I wouldn't give a guy a misplaced knee for hassling me at the bar (Queen of Delayed Reaction), but I do think I'd laugh at him.

I think the GF in this instance didn't give anything away until she opened her mouth. If she had risen above, it might have disproven the stereotype about her appearance.

[LaurieS]

I think the GF in this instance didn't give anything away until she opened her mouth. If she had risen above, it might have disproven the stereotype about her appearance.

Well unless I missed something while I was at Curves and you all were playing on your computers.. has it been declared as to why her appearance is questionable.   Inquiring Minds Want To Know