estranged son

[holliberri]

LOL...you are so right.

Assumptions, again. I took your Kat Von D impression and ran away with it. Oops.

[Pooh]

No Laurie, I don't think it was ever said.

[holliberri]

Luv,

I'm really sorry; I made a lot of assumptions about the appearance of your DS's GF that I shouldn't have. I believe this was a total waste of a board for you. I'm really sorry. I'll be more careful about that; I combined posts.

[LaurieS]

It's not a waste... I think she can see that even though we know that it is wrong to judge a book by it's cover.. humans do exactly that at times.  She is not wrong for making a snap decision and how it will affect her.. even if we know that it's not right.

Now if this girl supports her original opinion by cussing Luv out, then the gf is sealing the deal on how she will be perceived.   I still say that when you son especially an adult makes his mind up to make this gf his soul mate, there isn't anything you can do, or should do for that matter but it doesn't mean that you need to be untrue to yourself either. 

[Pooh]

I agree.  We may have went a little askant, but it was tied into the opinions that were being posted that luv could be judging GF on appearance or past.  And in a round-about-way, holding up for luv on that we are all guilty of judging people sometimes at first impression.  And I agree that GF did act out in a way that upheld their families opinions of different.

[LaurieS]

The second time I ever met my future in-laws... we went to dinner.. MIL suggested that we order some wine.. I was 20 and pretty much light weight drinker.. so I said ok.. I drank a glass before dinner and then we went to the salad bar.. I think I staggered to the salad bar lol.. In-laws said nothing.. only God knows what they were thinking... I carefully and skillfully use my fork to spear the unruly leaf lettuce and then proceeded to miss my mouth and stab myself in the side of my face on the first bite.  If they were the type to judge you and then accept that you can not change, there would have been no hope. 

Acceptance is what luv is after... you don't have to love this girl or the situation, but if you can accept her for who she is, your home will be calmer and happier.

[justus]

It isn't just how you dress that attracts unwanted attention. I am pretty, even in my 40s, and have always had men leer at me. I have never dressed provocatively, tending more towards classy and comfortable, I am not a flirt, and only in the last couple of years have I begun to wear makeup regularly. Heck I let my hair go gray and I am overweight!! I do treat everyone from the president of the college down to the janitors exactly the same, that is with respect and consideration, and DH says this is why. Research has shown that people tend to be optimistic about their chances with the opposite sex and this coupled with misreading cues means that men go from "Hi" to having me in bed pretty quick just because I am nice to them. If my boundaries weren't water tight, I would be on the edge of having affairs with several men, at least in their minds. I hated being single because I had to constantly deal with insistent men of all ages and insecure wives. Believe me, I don't like this sort of attention, and I don't solicit it.

With the way fashion is these days, it is impossible to know what a girl is all about. The girls from a certain area around Big City dress like whores according to the standards of our small community, but this is how all the girls dress up there. It is what is fashionable in that area and in Hollywood. It is kind of fun to watch the freshman boys from other areas figure out they are not actually whores the hard way. The girls do tone it down and become more professional as they realize what sort of message they are sending and as they get closer to graduation.

But, I am telling you, some of the things I have seen from all sections of the population over the years. Cleavage down to the belly, and butt cleavage all the way down. There was a time in the 90s when skirts were obscenely short, which was hell for DH. He is a Prof. and he often taught in tiered lecture halls. Lets just say that panties were optional with these short skirts. He has had to learn how to look without seeing. His students test him to see if he is looking and if he doesn't look, he is respected even more.

It is hard to judge and you wonder what their Mamma taught them about appropriate dress, but even that is an unfair judgment. Fashion is so personal. If my Mamma dressed me, I would be wearing shirts embroidered with teddy bears, American flags and unicorns. So NOT my style. 

[overwhelmed123]

It is hard to judge and you wonder what their Mamma taught them about appropriate dress, but even that is an unfair judgment. Fashion is so personal. If my Mamma dressed me, I would be wearing shirts embroidered with teddy bears, American flags and unicorns. So NOT my style.

So true, justus!  I'm sure my ILs used to think I dressed provocatively because I have a nice body that I have worked hard for and I like to show that (I'm not talking about showing skin, I just mean the way my clothes fit me or the cut of a dress or blouse).  But I thought they dressed like old grandmas.  It's just all about personal preference and style.  I would never be caught dead in the clothes they wear, and I'm sure they thought I was too "edgy" with mine.  But I promise you that no one else I associate with thinks that.  They'll simply say, "cute top!"  Or, "your butt looks really good in those jeans!"  (girls, of course)  Even my mom loves my clothes...she's little too so we borrow clothes a lot, but she's pretty modest so she would say if she thought I was dressing skanky.  It's trendy...nothing wrong with it.  But if you talked to my ILs they would think so.  It is all about preference.  I mean unless your goodies are hanging out all over the place and your skirt shows your buttcheeks...that might be a little much.

[Pooh]

I agree that personal choice of fashion is up to each individual.  And attractive men and women, no matter how they dress, are probably going to get hit on.  There are many things that attract people of the opposite sex.  I think all that is a given and will always happen.  I met my first husband while covered from head to toe in mud (from ball practice in the rain) and for whatever reason, he found that attractive.  I didn't discover until after we were married, it was because he was dumber than dirt.

I was always very fashion conscious in school.  I went through the preppy phase, and then into the 80's.  I didn't dress that way because I thought I was Madonna, I dressed that way because it was the current tread.  I still remembered to say please and thank you.  My clothes did not define who I was.

My problem with what I see today is they do not consider it fashion.  I walk into our Mall every week and there are teenagers hanging out with clothes that deem them EMO, Goth or Scene Kids, two tone hair in vivid colors, girls dressed like boys, boys dressed like girls, some dressed so I don't know which gender they are, piercings in their noses, ears, lips, eyebrows, etc.  They are rude and cursing, will not move to the side so an elderly couple can walk by and will push past you without a backwards glance.  I do look at them and think, why do their parents let them do that?  There will be a never-ending argument of letting them be who they are, don't clip their wings, give them some freedom, don't stifle them (can you tell we have heard every one of these from SD?)  I have had numerous conversations with SD and she will tell you, they do not consider this a fashion trend.  She is insulted if you say that.  She will tell you it is a culture and who they are.  She says it depicts their torment and deep feelings about society....Ok, you guys following this.  Her clothes are a reflection of who she thinks she is.  Her words, not mine.  And with her clothing choices, she adopts the attitude of the culture she is trying to respresent.

She was raised to respect others, to have empathy for people, to know the difference between right and wrong, to be confident, to do well in school, to be a good person.  Her torment is that she was given an 11 o'clock curfew on weekends.  So therefore, we are stifling her.  That's a load a crap.  She simply thinks that she should be able to do anything she wants and not be held accountable.  So she dresses like that and acts all depressed to imply what a tortured life she is leading and get sympathy from all the other kids that have adopted that culture.  And when she finally starts having real life issues?  She is not going to cope well.  Her culture dictates torment is teachers giving assignments, parents giving curfews, having to clean your room, having to help around the house, having to "ask" permission to go with friends, I can't use my cell phone in class to text and I have to keep up my grades to earn the right to drive my car.  That is their torment.  Heck, I didn't realize my parents or school tormented me, because I thought those were normal rules.

So I am sure there are people out there that are dressing differently, that are really nice people, just as I deal with people daily that are dressed nicely and fashionable, that are the biggest jerks.  I am sure there are women that dress provocatively that do it just because they like it and don't want to be hit on, and there are some that dress that way to get hit on.  But if I dress up today in a big ole' bear suit and go to the mall, I have to expect that there will be children that probably will try to hug me.  I can't be shocked or offended when they are not interested in the fact I am a good person underneath.  I dress like a bear, I am a bear at first impression. 

[Pooh]

Sorry Luv, now I am feeling like I hijacked your thread.  I will quit now...Lol.

I do hope you come back and answer the question of her appearance.

[cadagi101]

She was raised to respect others, to have empathy for people, to know the difference between right and wrong, to be confident, to do well in school, to be a good person.  Her torment is that she was given an 11 o'clock curfew on weekends.  So therefore, we are stifling her.  That's a load a crap.  She simply thinks that she should be able to do anything she wants and not be held accountable.  So she dresses like that and acts all depressed to imply what a tortured life she is leading and get sympathy from all the other kids that have adopted that culture.  And when she finally starts having real life issues?  She is not going to cope well.  Her culture dictates torment is teachers giving assignments, parents giving curfews, having to clean your room, having to help around the house, having to "ask" permission to go with friends, I can't use my cell phone in class to text and I have to keep up my grades to earn the right to drive my car.  That is their torment.  Heck, I didn't realize my parents or school tormented me, because I thought those were normal rules.

Pooh,  a great start to my day.     You have put it all so well.      We could be talking about the same girl.      I am feeling a lot happier at the moment.  My daughter (as above)  is 18 and leaving home tommorrow.     She has plans for her future and that is really good I am happy about that.      The "real world" will be quite a shock  to her but now at last she will find all about it herself.     I feel many  young people today don't have resilience and won't cope terribly well later in life but I will NOT enable her for 1 minute longer,  the last 5 years has worn me out.  Yes poor me lol.     

Sorry Luv to get of topic just had to add to pooh's post.      But there IS hope we just need to hang in there....

[Pooh]

Bless your heart Julia AND good for you!  I agree.  I think SD is going to have a rough life.

[Rose799]

Bless your heart Julia AND good for you!  I agree.  I think SD is going to have a rough life.

Not necessarily, Pooh.  My dd had that attitude, so long as she lived at home.  I used to say she, "wants what she wants when she wants it."  She still does, however, the real world doesn't owe her the way she "thought" dp's did.    I think Julia has the right idea.  Dd should have home sooner, she lived here while she got her bachelor's degree, resenting every minute.   

[Rose799]

I forgot to mention that dd is doing fine.  She still has an attitude where dm is concerned though.  I fill her every whim. : (

[Rose799]

I forgot to mention that dd is doing fine.  She still has an attitude where dm is concerned though.  I fill her every whim. : (

oopsie - "I didn't fulfill her every whim"