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"Leave & Cleave" vs. Honor thy Mother(-in-law)

Started by miss_priss, July 20, 2010, 01:10:08 PM

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barelythere

Quote from: Pen on August 16, 2010, 08:51:04 AM
When a DIL chooses to stay out of the way of an out-of-control, narcissistic MIL, all she loses is the out-of-control, narcissistic MIL who she wasn't fond of anyway and didn't have in her life before she signed on with DH. It may be difficult, it may at times be inconvenient, & it may be sad to realize that a positive extended family experience isn't likely to happen.

On the other hand, when a MIL finally decides to let go of a hurtful situation with a DIL, she and her family lose DS. There's a gigantic difference in what MILs go through vs. what DILs go through when choosing to remove themselves from painful interactions with ILs. DS can only do so much - he married his love and is honoring his vows. If life is easier for him w/o us, he's not going to push to communicate with us no matter how much he loves and misses us. It's behavior modification, I guess.

I'm having a bit of a rough day. Mostly I feel as if I'm moving on successfully, but every now and then it hits me. I really miss him. I wonder how DIL's parents would be feeling if the situation were reversed, if we were the pushy, hovering, demanding ILs and they were the ones who were expected to move on, like salmon who spawn and die?

Sorry, I've had a sad weekend. I'll be back to making forward progress in a day or two, just needed to voice it. Can't tell DH, he's had enough hurt and just wants to forget it all.

So true.  I know how you feel.  A friend said that I needed to blame my son and quit blaming my DIL. Hurt like heck but I guess she's right. 

luise.volta

Dear Ones - Sending out more love...more understanding...more  of everything. We trip and fall but we have friends to help us up.
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Pen

Quote from: barelythere on August 16, 2010, 12:43:02 PM
Quote from: Pen on August 16, 2010, 08:51:04 AM
When a DIL chooses to stay out of the way of an out-of-control, narcissistic MIL, all she loses is the out-of-control, narcissistic MIL who she wasn't fond of anyway and didn't have in her life before she signed on with DH. It may be difficult, it may at times be inconvenient, & it may be sad to realize that a positive extended family experience isn't likely to happen.

On the other hand, when a MIL finally decides to let go of a hurtful situation with a DIL, she and her family lose DS. There's a gigantic difference in what MILs go through vs. what DILs go through when choosing to remove themselves from painful interactions with ILs. DS can only do so much - he married his love and is honoring his vows. If life is easier for him w/o us, he's not going to push to communicate with us no matter how much he loves and misses us. It's behavior modification, I guess.

I'm having a bit of a rough day. Mostly I feel as if I'm moving on successfully, but every now and then it hits me. I really miss him. I wonder how DIL's parents would be feeling if the situation were reversed, if we were the pushy, hovering, demanding ILs and they were the ones who were expected to move on, like salmon who spawn and die?

Sorry, I've had a sad weekend. I'll be back to making forward progress in a day or two, just needed to voice it. Can't tell DH, he's had enough hurt and just wants to forget it all.

So true.  I know how you feel.  A friend said that I needed to blame my son and quit blaming my DIL. Hurt like heck but I guess she's right.

Well, I'm not going to blame my DS. DIL fooled him a bit, I think, like she fooled DH & me by being sweet and accepting before the wedding and suddenly announcing how much she disliked us afterward. DS is trying to honor his vows and keep the peace at home which, ironically, I support. DIL would probably swear she doesn't stand in the way of our relationship, but she can make her preferences known. She's their social planner as well, and we never seem to get on the calendar before everyone else. If we do see them she demands all the attention, huffing & puffing if DS wants to talk to us. I surely miss him. My sadness is just something I have to deal with, unfortunately. It feels like a non-death, and they don't make Hallmark cards for that.







Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

cremebrulee

August 17, 2010, 04:18:42 AM #78 Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 04:21:32 AM by cremebrulee
Pen, stay strong....I know there are good days, and really crapy days, but know, and believe in your heart, that this to will work out....your son has to be the one to do it....I realize, how you feel and why....however, he must initiate the fact to her, that he needs to see HIS family...and she must allow time for that, if not, then he's going to see you regardless, and she cannot call 100 times during the time he is visiting....that is all he'd have to say and do....maybe you can talk to him?  Tell him how you feel....he needs to know...remind him, that not only do you miss him, but the hurt of this runs a deep course...and also explain to him, that your not always going to be around, and it is so important that you spend time together.  Do you think you could do that?  Communicating feelings to others sometimes is so important...he really needs to know...because somewhere in his mind, he's ignoring this, b/c its easier for him to do that...that isn't fair to you....regardless if she acts out or not....to bad...the girl needs to grow up and stop being so unfair and cruel....it's all about her...

Pardon me for saying so....but there are stages we go thru when involved in inlaw problems and one of them is, we deny that it's our son's faults...and blame her....totally, but then we start to see that he is to blame as well, for allowing her to threat us like that....Pen...it's unfair of his as well....and I know your not ready to view that yet...but it really is....he is going along with it, and for whatever reason, it is wrong to treat anyone like this for the sake of peace....and peace at all costs is no peace at all....believe me....

I'm praying that there is change in all of this...not only you, but for everyone here...
Your all wonderful ladies who deserve to have peace in your lives....

barelythere

Quote from: cremebrulee on August 17, 2010, 04:18:42 AM
Pen, stay strong....I know there are good days, and really crapy days, but know, and believe in your heart, that this to will work out....your son has to be the one to do it....I realize, how you feel and why....however, he must initiate the fact to her, that he needs to see HIS family...and she must allow time for that, if not, then he's going to see you regardless, and she cannot call 100 times during the time he is visiting....that is all he'd have to say and do....maybe you can talk to him?  Tell him how you feel....he needs to know...remind him, that not only do you miss him, but the hurt of this runs a deep course...and also explain to him, that your not always going to be around, and it is so important that you spend time together.  Do you think you could do that?  Communicating feelings to others sometimes is so important...he really needs to know...because somewhere in his mind, he's ignoring this, b/c its easier for him to do that...that isn't fair to you....regardless if she acts out or not....to bad...the girl needs to grow up and stop being so unfair and cruel....it's all about her...

Pardon me for saying so....but there are stages we go thru when involved in inlaw problems and one of them is, we deny that it's our son's faults...and blame her....totally, but then we start to see that he is to blame as well, for allowing her to threat us like that....Pen...it's unfair of his as well....and I know your not ready to view that yet...but it really is....he is going along with it, and for whatever reason, it is wrong to treat anyone like this for the sake of peace....and peace at all costs is no peace at all....believe me....

I'm praying that there is change in all of this...not only you, but for everyone here...
Your all wonderful ladies who deserve to have peace in your lives....

That's what I was trying to say only you said it better. The only thing I'd take issue with is to not talk to him about the way she is feeling around his wife.  That could blow up in her face.  He will tell her what Pen said and get her further ostracized.  I know how you're feeling Pen.  It's like a terrible prison where you can't defend yourself.  Sometimes they do turn on a dime the moment they get married.  First we deny it and then the rest follows.

cremebrulee

Barely there, you might have something there, yes, it could blow up in her face...
however, what does she have now?  Yanno?  I got to the point where I was so afraid to speak to either one of them, but somehow I mustered up enough courage...and I decided, I had nothing to loose....however, Pen may not be there and may never be there, so, I believe she also has to consider your suggestion...it just may not go well at all? 


Sunny1

Hello everyone. I hope its OK if I jump in here, I have been watching for the past day and am impressed by this sites complexity of allowing both sides of the MIL/DIL situation. (I'm also typing on a smartphone at the moment, so please ignore any grammatical errors)

I am a DIL, married for 2 1/2 years to my best friend. I had been a single mother for nearly 10 years before remarrying.  My ex was abusive, but I had never had any problems with his mother.  So it came as quite a shock to me when,  after becoming engaged to my now husband, that his mother started behaving like a narcissistic control freak.  We were even made to feel guilty that our wedding was supposed to be about us and not my MIL and SIL, both of whom eventually succeeded in ruining our wedding,  and becoming a wedge in our marriage.  (Now you have a little bit of my background )

Pen, I'm so sorry that you're going thru what you are.  I know from my experience, that every one involved gets hurt. My MIL is a lifelong Christian,  and I met my husband at church.  , so I had truly believed I was marryong into a wonderful family.  Once the chaos began though, everyone at church just kept telling us to forgive her, and just as this discussion went before,  there's only so many times you can forgive someone before you need to stop and take a good look at thirty motives.  My MIL used her "Christianity" as a veil to her hypocrisy and manipulation. 

Sadly,  my husband had a really hard time with the reality of finding out what his mom was really like. He chose to cut her out of our lives, and I know that its the hardest thing he's ever done.


Pooh

Well, I'm not going to blame my DS. DIL fooled him a bit, I think, like she fooled DH & me by being sweet and accepting before the wedding and suddenly announcing how much she disliked us afterward. DS is trying to honor his vows and keep the peace at home which, ironically, I support. DIL would probably swear she doesn't stand in the way of our relationship, but she can make her preferences known. She's their social planner as well, and we never seem to get on the calendar before everyone else. If we do see them she demands all the attention, huffing & puffing if DS wants to talk to us. I surely miss him. My sadness is just something I have to deal with, unfortunately. It feels like a non-death, and they don't make Hallmark cards for that.

I think I know where Pen is coming from on this one.  I am in the same boat as Pen and although I don't see my Son as blameless for allowing the distance between us, people can be very manipulative.  MY DIL, just as Pen's, was very believable in the beginning as to all her sweetness and charm.  It was only during the engagement that she started showing her "true colors".  I know that our Sons are not innocent in all of it, but I do truly believe some people know exactly what buttons to push and how to bring them over to "their side".    How many times have you seen a Man (not your son, but a friend or coworker) that is with a female that you just sit and shake your head wondering what in the world they see in her?  I find myself doing it with my female friends as well with Men that treat them badly and I can't find one nice thing to say about their partner.  Men and Women both will say, "You just don't get them like I do.  I know they are this and that, but really, they can be very sweet."  And then we sit back and go, "Ok, then how come 100 other people that know them think they are awful?"  My Mother always said, "Love is blind."

It is my Son's fault for having blinders on, but yet she created the blinders and placed them snuggly on his head.  I think the difference, IMO is that he doesn't see it because of the "reality" she has created for him.  I have hurt people's feelings by accident and I am aware when I do it, that I need to apologize and try not to make that mistake again.  But I can't stand someone that purposefully hurts people.    So, Yes, it is his fault too but for me, she is more the guilty party because she does it on purpose and truly set out to distance him from friends and family. 

The more I have read and studied on this, I have come to the conclusion that she needed to take away his support team.  His friends, family and his own brother were the people that would take him back in and help him if their relationship fell apart.  These are also the people that see her as she is, and not what she wants people to believe.  I think that by eliminating those relationships from his life, she feels that he will stay with her, no matter what.  And truly, she is right.  If he ever does take a stand and decide she is not the person he thought, it will make it harder for him to end the relationship because he will feel so alone.  By making herself the center of his universe and his only support (in her head) she feels more secure and in control.   I know there are some MILs that want to keep that control over their Son's, but not all of us feel that way.  We just wanted to be part of their life.  So for now, we stay away and hope that someday, something changes.  Either the DIL matures and realizes what she has done or the DS wakes up and says, "No More."

I am not speaking for Pen, but I think that is where she is coming from too?  We don't think our DS is blameless, but we do think they were fooled, and are continuing to have those blinders fastened on every day.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

neecee

Pen - Hang on...things get better.  I gave myself a full year to grieve for the kids and now I find that the periods may be painful but shorter.  Give yourself permission to cry and rant whenever you need to get that negative junk out of your body.

GWN:  Wow!  You have the gift of articulation!  I read People of the Lie, and found that I was just not ready to do what Peck recommended. However, over time, when my pain was greatest, I would visualize sending the white light of love to my kids, cutting the cords of pain I felt.  In essence, it worked.
I will read The love Dare.  I am a firm believer in Family Systems Theory.  My more difficult relationships in my family of origin are related to wanting to change my position in the family.  Doing such things without "permission" is tantamount to being cut off by them.  It was never my intention to cut off anyone, but to simply change my own reactions to painful situations. That is all we can control, right?

I think the same occurred with my step kids.  It must be something intuitive.  I think some people are like sharks.  They circle and smell blood in the water.  It works them up to a frenzy and they cannot help but feast on the pain of others.  I don't think any of us are willing to blood-let for the sharks anymore.

It is important to state that I no longer feel like a victim.  I think my DIL and son are no longer in our lives because we aren't victims.  Their tormenting was only fun if they could feed at will.  Now, they cannot.  In fact, they find they have been exposed and this is pretty shaming.  Sharks like to lurk under cover.

cremebrulee

Quoteneecee
I read People of the Lie, and found that I was just not ready to do what Peck recommended. However, over time, when my pain was greatest, I would visualize sending the white light of love to my kids, cutting the cords of pain I felt.  In essence, it worked.
I will read The love Dare.  I am a firm believer in Family Systems Theory.  My more difficult relationships in my family of origin are related to wanting to change my position in the family.  Doing such things without "permission" is tantamount to being cut off by them.  It was never my intention to cut off anyone, but to simply change my own reactions to painful situations. That is all we can control, right?

Neecee, this is so so true...excellent post....and yes, it does work....b/c your sending postive energy...instead of negative...boy does it work, so glad to read this....

I think, Neecee, some are emotional vampires, sucking the life force out of us...as you call them sharks.....yes, indeed....

I really enjoyed this...thank you

luise.volta

Sometimes I find I have to clear out the negative energy before I can send any positive energy.

And the term "near-death", as associated with a loss of a DS in the situation we face, resonates with me. There is a grief process. Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

barelythere

Quote from: cremebrulee on August 17, 2010, 04:56:50 AM
Barely there, you might have something there, yes, it could blow up in her face...
however, what does she have now?  Yanno?  I got to the point where I was so afraid to speak to either one of them, but somehow I mustered up enough courage...and I decided, I had nothing to loose....however, Pen may not be there and may never be there, so, I believe she also has to consider your suggestion...it just may not go well at all?

Something I've come to know after all these years.  My Son and DIL can never have me back, ever. They used me for years and now they don't need me.  They might one day but they have never one time been there for us. So that's what happens after years and years of running after crumbs, you quit one day and that's it.

I have bought my GD for her birthday something my nephew's wife made, it's just beautiful but my Nephew's wife is not on my DILs social ladder so if I tell her where I got it, she immediately will not like it.  Although, my Nephew's wife is making a killing with these things.  Sometimes, when you're ready, you  just say, that's enough. 

luise.volta

And sometimes self-love, freely translated, means, "That's enough!"
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Pen

Pooh, thank you. It's good to be heard and understood.

Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

pam1

Quote from: Anna on August 19, 2010, 05:35:57 AM
I guess I didn't post how many times we had, as a couple, tried to sit down with and talk with her.  We invited her into our home to talk (she immediately got defensive and sarcastic and accused us of "ganging up" on her, it didn't turn out well), we invited her to phone counseling with a family therapist (she "couldn't take the call, she was on the phone with a friend who was having a crisis....TWICE)
Wow, that is exactly what happened when we tried to talk to our dil.  She accused us of ganging up on her. My hubby & I sat down with ds & dil to try to talk things out, & dil got really upset, ran from the room, cried, slammed the door, etc.  I truly don't think dil is able to understand any point of view unless it is hers.  I try my best to see things from several different perspectives.  It's like figuring out how to put a puzzle together, you may have to try several pieces before you find the one that fits.  Do you know what I mean?  I think dil is only capable of trying one piece, if it doesn't fit, the puzzle isn't meant to be.  Some may call it tunnel vision, when you only see what is in the tunnel, & not what is all around you.  Hard trying to deal with this type of personality.

Anna, your DIL behaves very similarly to my MIL.  She will not talk to me and will cry, run out of the room, change the subject anytime it gets to something emotional.  It's a very hard situation b/c you can't make progress or compromise unless someone talks to you!  With DH, MIL feels free to yell, scream and cry to him.  But me?  Just nothing.

If we try together she does a mixture and usually just refuses to have the conversation unless she can control it.  It's very hard and I understand the struggle you're going through.  At some point you want to give up b/c it is just so dang hard to face someone with such terrible communication issues that it works you up and takes over your mind how to have a simple conversation and it really shouldn't be that way.  Extremely frustrating.  So much could be solved with grown up communication and it's such a shame that you pretty much have to forego any type of compromise due to someone's inability to have a conversation. 
People throw rocks at things that shine - Taylor Swift