Author Topic: Could you please tell me where we are?  (Read 3396 times)

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Prissy

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Could you please tell me where we are?
« on: August 31, 2009, 07:45:47 PM »
I am getting so confused....in a nutshell, what have we learned? Could someone catch me up?

I just wrote one list of "how a DIL goes about ruining your life" and look at all that's happened! 

SunnyDays09

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Re: Could you please tell me where we are?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2009, 08:41:11 PM »
Oh, you are sooo right TamKat.  We are good people.  We only want to love our whole families.  Give love...get love. 

I too am reeling by how this seems  to be theme with newly marrieds  and why?  If you find out lemme know, k?

  I sometimes wonder, what futures do they hope for their own sons?  How do they see themselves as new mils? 

  I have noticed that the mils are desperate to find reasons, causes.  To right the wrongs.  To get the family together.  You can feel the sadness in the posts.  Where many times I have read in other places the dils want to send their mils off to space.  just be rid of them.  Almost hostile in nature?  No sad feelings about the relationship ills at all.   
   I wonder why that is.

Offline luise.volta

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Re: Could you please tell me where we are?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2009, 08:43:05 PM »
Hi Prissy,

What I think I am learning is that there is initially an established relationship between two people, a mother and a son. Everything I have read says "the mom is the sons first love." Maybe for the mom he is the perfect male...I don't know...loving and accepting and close; asking little and offering so much.

Then he grows up and it becomes a threesome and "three's a crowd" is also another saying. Two women...one guy. One established relationship and one new one. A change of address. The guy physically moves.

Sometimes the mom raises hob...sometimes the wife raises hob...sometimes both do and on occasion, neither do. (We don't often hear about the last option.)

I think we are pretty much processing "hob." Learning how to deal with loss and move on. Learning who we are beyond parenting and who our sons are beyond childhood. Some of us are tying to expand to include a DIL who sometimes doesn't want to be included and some of us are trying to exclude a DIL who wants to be included. "Three's a crowd." Then there are grandchildren and the unresolved dynamics get more complex.

I think we are, each one of us, trying to work through what our own personal issues are and are supporting each other in learning to do that.
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Offline luise.volta

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Re: Could you please tell me where we are?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2009, 09:32:33 PM »
It's a hard thing to learn to do, but we have the opportunity to not have our lives be about others and our happiness be dependent on others. We can have out lives be about our lives without becoming insular and self-absorbed.

Lessons, lessons everywhere...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

just2baccepted

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Re: Could you please tell me where we are?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2009, 10:19:42 PM »
At least I do....I want to learn how to live whatever time I have left without such deep grief.

Prissy, that's the thing you shouldn't have to live like this.  My mom and I were talking today about my neighbors, the one who had the heart surgery.  And I told my mom that I felt like the neighbor wife would have a hard time if her hubby had died from his heart ailment.  She seems really dependent on him.   Which I'm sure that's normal.  But then we got to  talking about another man that my hubby knows that died from kidney cancer a few months ago.  He died two months after diagnosis.  I told my mom that I figured it would take his wife maybe a year before she feels like herself again and then maybe she can re-evaluate her life and what she wants to do with the remaining years since now she has to accept that her lifemate is now gone.  My mom and I were discussing this because she is trying to prep herself for when her best friend/sister dies.  My aunt has had several strokes and continues to go down hill.  Just this last week she's really started to take a turn for the worst

Prissy I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that we all go through periods of grief when we lose someone.  BUT, that grief is supposed to subside eventually and then we are able to take a new perspective on life and begin steps to rebuild our lives after such a loss.  It's when we are not able to pass through the grief and get to the rebuilding phase that's concerning.  Because you can't live your life in constant grief like this.  It could affect your psychical and mental well-being.  When you say that there are days that you barely can get through, you really sound clinically depressed.  If I were you I would look up the symptoms of depression on the internet.  I have to tell you that I took Zoloft one time to help with my shyness/social anxiety and it really helped a lot.  What was weird about though was that I couldn't cry.  I eventually got off of it because it made me gain weight but it did help my moods.

Also I really think that a good counselor would help you a lot.  You are really suffering and it sounds like its affecting your daily life.  I just really believe that there is good help out there and you shouldn't have to suffer like this.   Anyway you sound severely depressed to me. And I'm not getting that vibe from any of the other posters.  Anyway I'm just throwing that out there.  Another shih tzu probably wouldn't hurt either? :D

Alicev

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Re: Could you please tell me where we are?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2009, 11:34:55 PM »
Nunc coepi is a Latin phrase often heard in seminaries of old. It means, "Now I begin." Novices were taught to say this each morning, signifying that what was is past, what will be is hidden in the future, and it is only now - this day, this moment - that counts. Not what I did yesterday or what I may do tomorrow. Now I begin. Nunc coepi.
 Every day is another chance and a fresh start. It's important to remember that. Too many of us are hyperaware of all the yesterdays we wasted or the phantom tomorrows that could bring us down. Yet, we're hardly aware at all of the day that's right here in our hands, shimmering with possibilities. Why do we do that? Why do we so habitually discount and brush off the wonder of the present moment?
 One reason might be that we don't trust ourselves. Because of past mistakes, we're afraid to get very hopeful. In fear of failing again, we choose to downplay the possibilities and try to settle for what comes, rather than actively creating it. The bottom line may be that we really don't believe in second chances.
 But each day is new whether we believe in it or not. We can begin fresh every morning if we decide to live our lives that way. The miracle isn't that the chance is there; it always has been there. The miracle is what happens when we reach out and embrace it.

As long there is life, there is the chance to start over.

Earnie Larsen & Carol Hegarty "Believing in Myself"

AnnieB

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Re: Could you please tell me where we are?
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2009, 05:47:31 AM »
Oi,  for sure... I do love the "Nunc coepi" phrase and will try to work that in to my daily meditations, a fresh start every day, every moment would be so excellent!

Prissy I can so relate! (Big Sister Hug here!)   My father died when I was 17 and though that may seem 'grown up' to some, I was still a child and that had and has effects on my life to this day.  There's a book somewhere out there called "The Loss that is Forever" -- just the title alone was a comfort to me, because though we can move on and past the grief so it doesn't ruin us, it was important to me that it be recognized that this was a loss that lasts forever in many ways that others may not recognize. 

I was depressed for years and still struggle with it -- the 'break' for me came after a year or two in therapy -- my therapist had about given up - and despite one personal tragedy (I had an AVM at age 30) I had never really grieved the death of my father (not allowed in my family of origin as this was my mother's tragedy, not mine and good girl that I was, I 'bought that. My own mother lost her father when she was only 3, but when my father died and I tried to comfort her, she snapped at me "go away, you only lost a father, I lost a husband..."   she had no idea because she never had her father how awful this was).

It took two other tragedies (my life was a living soap opera back then!) for me to finally break down and give in to grieving, to admitting my own vulnerabilities and to some degree, how I had a part in the drama that was my life.  I'm still somewhat of a tough cookie, but I'm much softer than I was.  And I am much more aware of the effects of childhood loss and my own fear of loss of loved ones and how that impacts my relationships with others now. 

One can be "too sensitive" or closed down -- two sides of the same coin! 

In any case, we don't get over the loss of a parent as a child, not in the traditional way because we don't just lose our mother or father at that  moment.  We lose the presence and relationship with them for our whole childhood and then into our adult life.  We lose them at the times when we so need them, as we grow up and would like to turn to a mother or a father.   There is a way to go with that loss, somehow, and make it so it doesn't work against us - I know my father would not have been pleased to see how mired and stuck I was over his death -- in some ways I kept picking at the wound, not allowing it to heal (I think because I did not want to let him go.)

Not having lost a mate through death, I don't know how the loss of a parent to a child compares to that.  I don't know how it compares to losing a parent as an adult.  In my heart and gut, I think the closest comparison could only be to the loss of a child, because there would be that perpetual reminder as life goes on of the times you've lost with them.

In some ways, I think for me anyway some of the "losses" of my sons - through marriage, conflict with DIL or just plain growing up and moving on --  has some parallel to the loss of my own parent early on -- maybe we all feel this on some level,  with our children as they grow up and leave home.

When my oldest graduated from high school, I saw his whole life flash before me and I cried as if he were dying.  Of course, what was dying was the old relationship I had with him. He wasn't my "baby" anymore.   I'm going through that again now as my youngest enters his senior year of high school -- but thank God I'm a bit more aware of what's going on.

But I found myself sobbing deeply as I was driving the other day, and it was a grieving sobbing, thinking of my sons and how they are moving on. 

Some of what luise said also rings true.  I was thinking as I sobbed how pure this love of a mother and child is -- I only know mother and sons, so I cannot speak of mothers and daughters -- but with my sons there has been this unconditional non-sexual non-judgmental love and acceptance (leaving out the teen years, of course!) much as with my lost father and myself.

What is true for me is not, of course, true for everyone else.  I think we bring into all of this all kinds of things from our past, resolved and unresolved issues.   The blessing here is that this experience with our children and their spouses, however painful it is for us, gives us the opportunity to heal ourselves.   We may not be able to heal the relationships with our children and their mates -- as several wise people have pointed out all over here,  we cannot fix others.  But we can work on ourselves!

(I do highly recommend the Sarah Susanka book, The Not So Big Life -- I'm only halfway through it, but it is really wonderful!) 

 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 05:59:43 AM by AnnieB »

SunnyDays09

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Re: Could you please tell me where we are?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2009, 06:35:07 AM »
Hugs to you Prissy.

AnnieB

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Re: Could you please tell me where we are?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2009, 07:28:41 AM »
I understand!  It traps you and overtakes you and stunts you.  The love between a son and mothers is unique and can't be explained till you have them.

Daughters are always yours to keep.  Not so with sons.  Hard pill to swallow.

Thanks, Prissy but that wasn't the intent of my message!    I think it is the same for all, just in different ways!

just2baccepted

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Re: Could you please tell me where we are?
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2009, 09:06:54 AM »
Yet, we're hardly aware at all of the day that's right here in our hands, shimmering with possibilities.

Loved this comment!

And to Prissy, it sounds like you've already taken some good steps to feeling better.  One thing I've heard about anti depressants is that you have to take them for a few weeks for them to really get in your system and do some good.  Also when I was looking for a good counselor, I did try several different ones before I found a good fit.  Some of them talked too much or not enough or I just didn't connect with them.  But I found this one lady and loved her.  I went to to her for as long as my insurance would allow.  She helped me put some perspective on things.

I guess too that you have to be open to change and help.  The counselor may make us look at ourselves and see what we've also done wrong and so forth.  I know that can be difficult as well.  But I would rather be confronted then spend my life in a constant depressed state.

I was talking to my mom the other day and she said she's noticing that my sister's kids seem to be pulling away from her more.  My mom said, "I'll bet when they leave home for good, all "sister" will get is a phone call from them once in awhile to check up on her.  My mom said she's  worried that the kids will be embarrassed by her.  I told my mom she's got to put hersself in their shoes.  Well I guess my point is that my sister one day is going to be hurt and in a lot of pain because I have a feeling her kids won't be able to put up with the drama, chaos, drugs, criminal behavior etc.  I guess my mom is just hoping that they will.  My mom wants to protect sister at all costs even if that mean making the kids life difficult.  I think family rejection goes on a lot.

Offline luise.volta

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Re: Could you please tell me where we are?
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2009, 09:54:16 AM »
Prissy - It is so hard when something takes us over and then seems to rule. I have a saying that goes like this: First I make something up (like I can't have it be this way, etc.),
then we forget I made it up and believe it's true and lastly I find myself at the effect of "it"...(what I made up.)

Sometimes I can come from that premise but other times I don't make it.

I think about my son's home here in WA burning to the ground in April and I marvel when he honestly tells me "I am choosing to be happy."

I really believe there's always a choice...but then I forget again...and get hooked on what I made up.

We don't make up the circumstances and situations...we make up what they mean and how much power we choose to give them.

You are so precious. I'm again wanting to "ping" you with my Fairy-Godmother-Magic-Wand." Where the heck did I put that darned thing?
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

SunnyDays09

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Re: Could you please tell me where we are?
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2009, 07:55:25 PM »
...it was all about making them happy for me.

I didn't always "try" to make my Son and DIL happy, it's just what I do naturally.  When here at my home anyone who comes is treated the same way I'm a very hospitable person.  In regards to their life together if either of them wanted to talk to me about any issues they have had with each other early on I was always neutral and considerate.

At this point in time though, I could care less about either 1 of their happiness. I know this much, relayed to me by my younger Son, my Son is not happy.  No, I am not happy he is not happy, in fact I wish I could help him straighten all this out.  My DIL is not a totally useless person, prior to everything going awry she told me I was a wonderful Mother to my Son and had raised him very well.  I do know what has broken it down.  I do know who is to blame.  I can assess blame on my DIL and her family.  I can also say I have done nothing wrong.

You know, we have a lot in common?  Except for the telling me I was wonderful at anything.  Never happened.  But all the other stuff. 
It's my life!!!

SunnyDays09

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Re: Could you please tell me where we are?
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2009, 07:59:39 PM »
Brainwashing takes time...that's what he is in the last stages of.

   He once told me they weren't serious.  She was his 'sure thing' if you know what I mean.  I am not sure if I can put what I mean.  He called her something else.  Rhymes with duty fall girl.  He told me she was his sure piece of...am I going to be bleeped? 
   I was shocked!  How dare he treat her this way?? 

  Then, when he saw all her dads money that she was getting...he felt she deserved it (engagement ring).   I just bet she was just happy she found someone with a mind as easy as his to rinse/spin/dry!  LOL. 
   I never felt any LOVE going on between these two.  And that's ok.  People marry for all kinds of reasons.  But please don't insult me by trying to convince me that it's love. He needed money and she needed someone standing next to her on "HER" day.  A day she wanted to have happen BEFORE her friends.  It was that important.  Not to whom.  Just that it happened at the time she wanted it to.
 And he gots extra spending moola too!! It's a win win. 

   They sort of deserve each other.   :D
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 08:01:41 PM by HappyDays09 »

Offline luise.volta

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Re: Could you please tell me where we are?
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2009, 10:17:04 PM »
You sound so solid and realistic and what you are going through is so heartbreaking. I feel for you down to the tips of my toes.
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

SunnyDays09

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Re: Could you please tell me where we are?
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2009, 02:03:26 PM »
He once told me they weren't serious.  She was his 'sure thing' if you know what I mean.  I am not sure if I can put what I mean.  He called her something else.  Rhymes with duty fall girl.  He told me she was his sure piece of...am I going to be bleeped?
 

Rofl Happy!!  There is a movie called "Sure Thing" its funny you should watch it. Has John Cusack in it I believe.

Oh BTW I got bleeped and censored said my Son should grow some <> and it was changed to courage.  It was right that it was changed.  Honestly probably made a lot of readers envision something not intended.

   I must be more careful!   :D :D :D   
Why I think nasty helps put more emotion into writing, I don't know.  I am proofing much slower now wondering is there a better way this can be said?  Can I blame my dil for that as well?? ;D :D ;D :D