Author Topic: Need some support here...  (Read 4815 times)

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Offline tryingmybest

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Need some support here...
« on: June 09, 2012, 02:26:24 PM »
After the last few years this become a consistent behavior pattern. Sons want to do something, DIL's want to go a different way, and that's how it goes. I say nothing, I smile I am super supportive because I know getting involved will only muddy the water, and it's their life and so on and so on, but when did they lose their ability to assert themselves? They sure as heck did when they were younger. They have become POD People... ???
This whole marriage is a partnership, 50/50 and so on...wow so not happening!

Doe

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Re: Need some support here...
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2012, 02:42:13 PM »
I hear ya, TMB.  Can you imagine what that type of MIL that DIL is going to turn into?   There's going to be a serious need for more online DIL forums at that point.... ;D

Offline DivaGirlDIL

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Re: Need some support here...
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2012, 06:29:47 PM »
From a DIL's perspective it might not be what it seems.  I love my DH but he has a lot to do with past history in me getting the blame.  Some guys just don't want to hurt their parents feelings so they blame it on the wife.  My DH is classic for it and I want to smack him upside the head.  For some reason he still feels them over me.

Offline luise.volta

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Re: Need some support here...
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2012, 07:00:33 PM »
We need to be very careful not to generalize about this. It happens when it does…and it doesn't always happen. Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Offline Lillycache

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Re: Need some support here...
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2012, 06:23:21 AM »
My son stood up to my DIL.  When my DIL issued the ultimatum to him "Pick her or me".  He was conflicted.  No one should have to "pick" between a spouse and a parent.  Why can't he have both a mother and a wife?  But apparently not.  So now after a few years it boils down to him calling me every 4-6 weeks, and bringing the kids over to see me every 3 or 4 months. I guess I am fortunate that he has not ousted me from his life totally.  I'll take what I can get. It's easier for him to not buck the system.  There was a time afterall, that she would not allow him to bring the kids to see me.  I didn't see the GKs or my son for over a year.

Offline luise.volta

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Re: Need some support here...
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2012, 09:47:49 AM »
My MIL put up with the impossible and unimaginable when DS and I married at age 21. I still can't believe how tolerant and understanding she was with a DIL who couldn't boil water or manage a checkbook. (Well, it was almost that bad!) We were friends long after her son and I ended our 18 year marriage. She lived to be 104 and we were close until she passed on.  Her DS loved both of us and was never confused about who was his mom and who was his wife. We weren't interchangeable and there was plenty of love to go around. I look back and see that much of this was tradition and personalities and some it was the times….we married in the 40s. My life was fuller with her in it and she had the daughter she'd always wanted. Clearly a win/win. She spoke crossly to me twice in the 50 plus years we were friends; once when I swore in front of my 2 year-old and he repeated it and once when I let the dog lick my plate. (Both justifiable. LOL!)

When I became a MIL, I had a role model. Still one son married a "choose between your mother and me" woman. There wasn't anything either of us could do about it. His loyalty was to her and we seldom connected while they were together. After they divorced…he eventually met his Soulmate. I lucked out this time. She is always there for me as I am for her and she encourages DS to spend one-on-one time with me. Then she and I do the same thing. :-)

What I know is that I offered the same warmth and caring to both women. I didn't change. And my son loved both wife and mother without conflict. That didn't change, either. The opposite also happens, as we have often seen here. I could have been the "choose between your wife and me" MIL. It is a kind of inner pathology it seems to me and doesn't have much to do with the other players in the drama it creates. That's why we can't make sense of it or change it. Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Doe

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Re: Need some support here...
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2012, 07:23:49 AM »
It is a kind of inner pathology it seems to me and doesn't have much to do with the other players in the drama it creates.

This is so spot on in my case too, Luise, but I'm curious - did you have to work your way to this point of view or did you always know what what going on.   I mean, did you go through a "what have I done to cause this?" or was it so obvious to you about the inner pathology all along?

Offline Lillycache

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Re: Need some support here...
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 07:40:06 AM »
I have done a lot of thinking about this "Pick her or Me" phenomenon.  No matter who is issuing the ultimatum.. DIL or MIL... I wonder the psychology behind it, or more importantly the sociological reasons.  What causes women (and it IS mostly women) to desire complete control or to be unable to relenquish control.   You more than likely never hear about a husband telling his wife to "pick" between him or her family. (I realize it does happen, and I am trying not to generalize)  but in all honesty, that is very rare.  Most times it is a woman making this demand.  WHY? 

Here is what I have come up with.  Throughout history, women have not had the power men have enjoyed.  It is human nature to seek control and power.  Since women never had the ability to seek power from men as they were bigger and stronger, they have naturally turned to other women to fulfill the power fix.  ALSO... human beings have always competed for resources.  Food, Shelter, and money.  Women really never had the ability to compete outright for these things.  These were provided for them by men.  Therefore, MEN became the principle resourse of women.  Competing for the strongest and best provider of the lot sometimes meant that they (the woman) AND her offspring had the best chance of survival.   So women became very competitive against one another. Women learned to distrust the motives of other women. So often we here about "what did she REALLY mean by that" and even the most innocent statements are analysed ad nauseum. (as in my case with DILs FOO)

Although we have made great strides in the last 100 years or so in the area of equality and the ability to provide for ourselves and our kids, some of these old inbred instincts remain.  A man is something you fight for and win from other women.  It doesn't matter that the "other woman" is his mother, she is still a female.  Hard-wired behavior is seldom recognized for what it is and us usually unconscious.   Women find all sorts of bogus excuses for their distrust and dislike, and will search tirelessly for evidence to prove their opinions.... However, I truely believe a big part of it is ingrained, and beyond the control of many women.

Now I may be all wet and full of baloney... but since my DIL said that to my son in front of me, I have been bothered by it.  Also, I have heard it SOOOOO many times from other mothers of sons.  This is all I could come up with.  All mothers Of sons can't be crazy, mean, manipulative, bossy, demanding, intrusive.... etc...  lol!!

Offline luise.volta

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Re: Need some support here...
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2012, 08:54:13 AM »
D - My elder DS married twice. it was his second wife who hated me. The first one and I got along really well (and still do) but she left him because of his blatant infidelity which he called 'open marriage.' Not so, she was never open to the idea. He then found a woman he could be faithful to who hated her mother and they sang the "Somebody Done Me Wrong Song" together until his untimely death. He started hating me when he entered his teens. Having a second DIL who joined him in hating me fanned the flames. And, yes, I felt our estrangement represented some kind of a serious lack in me. He was a wonderful guy…successful…a great dad. In my 40s, (half a lifetime ago,) I was sure I must be the root of his hatred and it had to be my fault. I couldn't see the woods for the trees.

When it happened again with my younger son, it came on top of a solid relationship of mutual respect and understanding and I knew I had nothing to do with it. He never turned on me and I know he suffered from his 'incarceration' but he also gave it his best shot…which included excluding me from his life. I never felt unloved and knew I had nothing to do with it.
I respected him deeply and backed off but I gotta' admit I was dancing in the streets when he ended his marriage.

L - Interesting and thought-provoking. There are probably multiple theories and causes of what many of us are up against here. We also have MILs who won't let go when they still have their provider at home and the child, DS, was in many way a liability not an asset. In a lot of those cases there is a DIL who wants to relate and feels terribly left out. Maybe some MILs may feel DS is a 'possession' and will be a future asset when the existing provider passes. I think there is something really tangible in your theory, even though we (gratefully) see many instances where it doesn't apply. That's why I have used the word 'pathology.' Ingrained may be a better one or DNA or the unconscious. Whatever the word, the syndrone wrecks havoc.

Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Offline Lillycache

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Re: Need some support here...
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2012, 09:05:02 AM »
A man is a man is a man... son or husband... and asset to a family.  A provider. In ancient times men were assets, women were users of the resources provided by men. They were liabiltites.  Even if the behavior is done by a MIL, I still think the same principles apply.  Could a son be seen as an asset in old age?  Women who engage in this destructive exclusionism of other women seem to me to still be competing with a perceived threat....  and like I said, are probably not even aware of the psychology behind it.   By the time it gets ugly, positions are set and preconceived notions have hardened.  Like you said... it wreaks havoc on the family.

Offline luise.volta

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Re: Need some support here...
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2012, 09:08:24 AM »
I know in Asia and other countries, girl children are seen as embarrassing and disposable. We have a long way to go...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Offline herbalescapes

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Re: Need some support here...
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2012, 02:05:15 PM »
Women have always been assets to families and survival.  They may have been seen as merely users of resources and not valuable, but let's face it, the human race would have died out generations ago if not for women.  (ok, same as men).  That sabertooth tiger the man hunted wasn't very useful til the woman skinned it, cooked it, and used the skin to make clothes.  Just because societies have and sometimes continue to denigrate women's contributions doesn't mean women haven't been making significant contributions to society all along.  I know my husband doesn't really appreciate all I do; he doesn't really recognize that his professional contributions wouldn't be so great if i weren't keeping the homefires burning. 

I still think the whole MIL vs DIL is a big PR hoax perpetuated by men.  Many MILs and DILs who don't get along would if their DHs and DSs would "stoop" to doing the traditional woman's role of communication.  Did you ever see the episodes of that show Everyone Loves Raymond where Debra and Marie are feuding?  Ray fuels the feud so he gets his wife and mother trying to outdo themselves in being #1 to him.  I think that goes on more (tho maybe not so obviously as in a sitcom) than we think.

Offline luise.volta

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Re: Need some support here...
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2012, 03:26:15 PM »
"I still think the whole MIL vs DIL is a big PR hoax perpetuated by men." Oh, I wish that were true…but it did make for good TV plots.
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Offline tryingmybest

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Re: Need some support here...
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2012, 06:28:45 PM »
Boy this got deep, and I really think you are on to something! Would really explain the "ready to rumble " attitude that hits some DILs and MIL 's as soon as everyone walks down the aisle.

Offline luise.volta

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Re: Need some support here...
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2012, 06:31:02 PM »
'Ready to Rumble'…how apt! Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama