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Meryl

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The
« on: April 13, 2010, 06:03:09 AM »
So some one went over and riled the other site. If you truly want your questions answered, go back and reread what they told you. That site is for dils to deal with toxic inlaws, just as this one is to deal with toxic dils. For the most part they answered the questions - they were dealing with not your normal inlaws. Normal people don't try to kidnap your children or try to poison you with the things you have an allergy to. Normal people don't try to break into your house.  If you want respect, you have to give respect - in life or online.

If you truly want to understand, take yourself and your own situation out of the equation, read and think about it.
All dils are not awful, just as all mils are not awful.

I don''t know who I am addressing this to, but I can see your pain. A lot can be learned from both sites, theirs and ours, if looked at objectively.

Meryl
Let the minuses begin...

cremebrulee

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Re: The
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2010, 06:08:52 AM »
So some one went over and riled the other site. If you truly want your questions answered, go back and reread what they told you. That site is for dils to deal with toxic inlaws, just as this one is to deal with toxic dils. For the most part they answered the questions - they were dealing with not your normal inlaws. Normal people don't try to kidnap your children or try to poison you with the things you have an allergy to. Normal people don't try to break into your house.  If you want respect, you have to give respect - in life or online.

If you truly want to understand, take yourself and your own situation out of the equation, read and think about it.
All dils are not awful, just as all mils are not awful.

I don''t know who I am addressing this to, but I can see your pain. A lot can be learned from both sites, theirs and ours, if looked at objectively.

Meryl
Let the minuses begin...

I totally agree Meryl?  But I don't understand what sparked this post...?  However, what you have said here is totally true...and this is the second time, I've seen a post about minuses....yanno, if someone has to secretly give you a minus because they disagree with you, well, I feel very sorry for them...personally, I don't think the plus and minuses are a good thing, b/c you always get someone who uses them out of spite or b/c they disagree with you...unfair...actually Meryl...I don't really give a hoot, about plus or minuses...don't look at them. 

But, what you have said in this post is very true...we need to disconnect ourselves personally from the posts of DIL's to evolve...together.

Thank you

Offline Scoop

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Re: The
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2010, 06:24:52 AM »
I'd also like to point out that we don't like it when people come in here guns blazing.  We would prefer that they lurk a bit, find out the backgrounds of the posters and write in a calm, respectful way.

It's the same for them.

Except they are MUCH more direct in their communication, there's no pussy-footing around over there.  I think it might actually be a common problem between MIL's & DIL's, because if you're an indirect communicator, then a direct communicator can come off as attacking, whereas to a direct communicator, an indirect communicator appears to be sneaky and manipulative.  Neither is wrong, you just have to see which one you are and which one you're talking to.  And if you want your point to be taken, you have to try and be more direct/indirect.

2chickiebaby

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Re: The
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2010, 06:36:19 AM »
I'd also like to point out that we don't like it when people come in here guns blazing.  We would prefer that they lurk a bit, find out the backgrounds of the posters and write in a calm, respectful way.

It's the same for them.

Except they are MUCH more direct in their communication, there's no pussy-footing around over there.  I think it might actually be a common problem between MIL's & DIL's, because if you're an indirect communicator, then a direct communicator can come off as attacking, whereas to a direct communicator, an indirect communicator appears to be sneaky and manipulative.  Neither is wrong, you just have to see which one you are and which one you're talking to.  And if you want your point to be taken, you have to try and be more direct/indirect.

Scoop, I think a lot of us don't understand the new way of speaking....like one time my 1st DIL said to me, "deal with it".  I felt personally attacked.  I had never been talked to like that before.....I later learned that she was just trying to be funny
and cute with her response.

That's part of this gigantic problem...we just don't understand each other.  My 1st DIL is so bossy.....I'm beginning to think
maybe she would have treated any MIL the way she does me.  Do any of you think so?   The 30 second pause when she's
asked a question is very hard but maybe she's visual and can't formulate the answer quickly?  ;D  It's a real nail biter.

I thought it was control but I don't think that's it anymore.  I think she's trying to come up with an answer.  She has a
Master's Degree, you'd think she could pop something out quicker but I have to allow people to be themselves.  :-[

Me: "are you having a nice day?"

Her: 30 to 40 seconds later......

Her: "yes"

Me: oh, thank you Lord!!! Yes!! Yes!!! Yes!!!  (thinking this inside)  Victory~!!!!!! Hallelujah!!!!!! Hooray!!

cremebrulee

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Re: The
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2010, 07:05:33 AM »
Quote
Chickie

Scoop, I think a lot of us don't understand the new way of speaking....like one time my 1st DIL said to me, "deal with it".  I felt personally attacked.  I had never been talked to like that before.....I later learned that she was just trying to be funny and cute with her response.

I hope Chickie, you don't mind me replying...as when reading this it bought some thoughts to mind...we all know that TV and movies, has a whole lot to do, with conditioning society...so many of those reality shows on TV now encourage people to be mean to each other to win , or to fight against each other...they promote individulisum, and breaks down morals, not to mention...competing to win...I refuse to watch any of them, b/c I hate the attitude they all portray...anyway, my point is, think about what we had to watch when we were young....good family role models....that promoted family, caring about the hearts of others, and respect.  Do you think that may have something to do with the attitude of younger men and women today, i.e. DIL's? 

That's part of this gigantic problem...we just don't understand each other.  My 1st DIL is so bossy.....I'm beginning to think
maybe she would have treated any MIL the way she does me.  Do any of you think so?   I do...yes, most assuridly she would have, b/c it's not you, it's her, how she talked to her parents as she was growing up...how they allowed her to talk to them...she was conditioned to be who she is...yes, I think that is also an additive.

Quote
The 30 second pause when she's
asked a question is very hard but maybe she's visual and can't formulate the answer quickly?  ;D 
It's a real nail biter.

I thought it was control but I don't think that's it anymore.  I think she's trying to come up with an answer.  She has a
Master's Degree, you'd think she could pop something out quicker but I have to allow people to be themselves


Chickie, there is no degree on the face of this earth which is going to define a person's social skills....for instance, I have MS...when I talk to people, I cannot look into they're eyes...I have to find an object and vocus on it...and it's awful..but, it's the only way I can sometimes get the words out...I actually write better then I can speak in person...I know what I want to say, however, it just doesn't come out...also, I remember my foster mother doing that...so, it is partly an inheritence or a learned behavior pattern, off of my mother's habits...so, what I'm saying is, maybe your DIL's mother or father did this, and she is not even aware of it...that she does it...or, like I said before, perhaps she is so afraid of saying something wrong, not only when she is in your company, but in the company of anyone, she does the same thing...perhaps it's her pride...and she thinks about something for a while, before she responses...I don't believe that is a bad thing...my son does that...he was taught to do it as a police office...it's an exercise, to not react...but to think before speaking words...it's not a bad thing...and, she may be slower at being able to respond...it could be anything...?

Me, I have a very very very bad habit of thinking out loud...it's not right, it steps on toes and hurts the feelings of others, so I'm really trying hard not to be so direct...and not speak everything that comes to mind...Ohhhh my, I've got so much work to do...LOL...

« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 07:14:07 AM by cremebrulee »

2chickiebaby

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Re: The
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 07:12:22 AM »
Quote
Chickie

Scoop, I think a lot of us don't understand the new way of speaking....like one time my 1st DIL said to me, "deal with it".  I felt personally attacked.  I had never been talked to like that before.....I later learned that she was just trying to be funny and cute with her response.

I hope Chickie, you don't mind me replying...as when reading this it bought some thoughts to mind...we all know that TV and movies, has a whole lot to do, with conditioning society...so many of those reality shows on TV now encourage people to be mean to each other to win , or to fight against each other...they promote individulisum, and breaks down morals, not to mention...competing to win...I refuse to watch any of them, b/c I hate the attitude they all portray...anyway, my point is, think about what we had to watch when we were young....good family role models....that promoted family, caring about the hearts of others, and respect.  Do you think that may have something to do with the attitude of younger men and women today, i.e. DIL's? 

That's part of this gigantic problem...we just don't understand each other.  My 1st DIL is so bossy.....I'm beginning to think
maybe she would have treated any MIL the way she does me.  Do any of you think so?   I do...yes, most assuridly she would have, b/c it's not you, it's her, how she talked to her parents as she was growing up...how they allowed her to talk to them...she was conditioned to be who she is...yes, I think that is also an additive.

Quote
The 30 second pause when she's
asked a question is very hard but maybe she's visual and can't formulate the answer quickly?  ;D 
It's a real nail biter.

I thought it was control but I don't think that's it anymore.  I think she's trying to come up with an answer.  She has a
Master's Degree, you'd think she could pop something out quicker but I have to allow people to be themselves


Chickie, there is no degree on the face of this earth which is going to define a person's social skills....for instance, I have MS...when I talk to people, I cannot look into they're eyes...I have to find an object and vocus on it...and it's awful..but, it's the only way I can sometimes get the words out...I actually write better then I can speak in person...I know what I want to say, however, it just doesn't come out...also, I remember my foster mother doing that...so, it is partly an inheritence, off of my MIL's habits...so, what I'm saying is, maybe your DIL's mother or father did this, and she is not even aware of it...that she does it...or, like I said before, perhaps she is so afraid of saying something wrong, not only when she is in your company, but in the company of anyone, she does the same thing...perhaps it's her pride...and she thinks about something for a while, before she responses...I don't believe that is a bad thing...my son does that...he was taught to do it as a police office...it's an exercise, to not react...but to think before speaking words...it's not a bad thing...and, she may be slower at being able to respond...it could be anything...?

Thank you, Creme...I know you're right. This is the way the new generation talks.  They are plain speakers and talk to
others in a way that seems harsh to us.  I guess she did learn that in her family. 

Thanks for pointing that out and especially thanks for pointing out that she might do that to any MIL, not just me.  She
and son fight in public verbally. It is hard to watch.  Son doesn't do it but she does....she asked me one time: "why can't
he get mad?"

I told her that I didn't know he couldn't.....but inside I thought: "why do YOU get so mad?"  She says anything that pops
in her head.  She can be really friendly some days and not on others.  You never know.  I'm always on guard with her (everyone is)   


cremebrulee

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Re: The
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2010, 07:30:33 AM »

Quote
Chickie

She and son fight in public verbally. It is hard to watch.  Son doesn't do it but she does....she asked me one time: "why can't
he get mad?"

ahhh hah, that says a lot chickie, apparently, she is used to yelling, and doesn't consider it fighting...it is the way she expresses herself...however, others would view her as yelling and screaming...she must have been bought up this way...some children grow up watching they're parents do this, and parrot them...and it sounds to me, as if, she also likes a good debate...some people do, which would be the college background...she is debating an issue...it's her way of contributing and communicating...while I certainly could and do understand why others would take offense.

It's like people who are very direct...we or I, don't realize I'm hurting anyone...I really do believe people are asking for my opinion...and when I give it to them...and they get hurt or angry, then I realize, opps, this person didn't really want a solution...they wanted approval for they're feelings...there is a big big difference..

Quote
I told her that I didn't know he couldn't.....but inside I thought: "why do YOU get so mad?"  She says anything that pops
in her head.  She can be really friendly some days and not on others.  You never know.  I'm always on guard with her (everyone is)


So, this is then, apparently her MO, the way she is...and I can understand why you do take offense, however, if you realize Chickie, that what she is saying, isn't meant against a personal attack against you, but more so, the way she is...and the way she talks to everyone, in time, when she does talk like this, you would learn or can learn to let all these things roll off your back.  This is the exact same thing that happened with my DIL...she didn't mean to hurt me...however, each one of us, took every thing the other one was doing as an attack, and it just kept escalating...Oh man, was I sure she hated me....and she was jealous of me...but she wasn't...it was just the way she was....I can remember saying so many times..."I'm not used to being talked to like this or that"....and it was true...our family was easy going, we talked things out, my foster mom and dad, never yelled at each other...they disagreed but in a calm way...and also chickie, consider, we women speak with a lot of emotion...half the words we speak are emotion and feelings...

It's like my brother in law...no one can bring up politics around him at the table, he is so staunch and far to the one side, he will start yelling and saying very offensive things...why?  Because he feels like your telling him he is wrong for feeling that way (I'm saying your in general, not you, of course not you, you don't even know him...lol)  anyway, being right is so much more important to him then being accurate...not to mention, I think he feels if he'd say one thing against his party, he'd be disloyal to them...which is so wrong...no one is completely right all of the time...and, to boot, I feel very firmly for years, that both parties are corrupt....and I'm sorry if I offend anyone, it's just they way I feel.....I registered independent years ago...

anyway, if we start to understand these signals which we thought were being sent to us by other people, were not really meant to hurt us or offend us...we start to understand the individuality of every one...we all own who we are...we are all different...we all think and believe differently...however, it doesn't always mean that they don't like us....or disagree with us...it is however, simply who they are...and they are not like us...and never will be able to be...and that's why its a good thing not to have expectations of people, b/c they will never be able to live up to our expectations, they don't think and feel like us, nor we them....

does that make any sense....?

« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 07:37:14 AM by cremebrulee »

2chickiebaby

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Re: The
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2010, 07:41:38 AM »
This is all true, Creme....the thing is, she does not like a good debate, we do..but we don't do it anymore with her. When she
gets mad, it is all consuming anger. I was not brought up that way and don't know others who do this.

However, she does have wonderful kids...both DILs do.  Both have Masters Degrees and are smart. (I'm smart too.. :P)


cremebrulee

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Re: The
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2010, 07:48:00 AM »
This is all true, Creme....the thing is, she does not like a good debate, we do..but we don't do it anymore with her. When she
gets mad, it is all consuming anger. I was not brought up that way and don't know others who do this.

However, she does have wonderful kids...both DILs do.  Both have Masters Degrees and are smart. (I'm smart too.. :P)

ahhh, ok, I see now....wull yeah, I can understand why you don't debate with her....I understand...

Meryl

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Re: The
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2010, 08:05:56 AM »
I didn't realize this had posted. I was writing the subject line last and it disappeared after I wrote "The". I meant to write The Flip Side.  What sparked the post is I read the question from the MIL on the other site. I read all of the replies. Some tried to answer the MIL about trying everything before the cut off. The MIL poster came back and it was clear and obvious that she did not understand at all. Calling the dils a pack of wild dogs is no way to get to a common meeting ground. I will say this again:

Just as the posters here have been hurt by probably toxic daughter in laws, so have the posters there been hurt by probably toxic mils.  We are not talking about normal people. Anyone can be a parent. To parent is different. Criminals, crazy people, terrorists all know how to procreate. Just because you are a parent does not mean you are a good person. (Stay with me, I've been saying you generically - I don't know who posted).

We are not talking about good people. We are talking about people who will do anything at any cost to undermine the nuclear family of their children just to get their way. These are their stories just as the stories here are your stories. They hurt too and have tried reasonable means to try and change the dyanamic. When it didn't work, then the inlaws and in some cases parents were cut off.

I do not post there. I have a nice MIL. What I have learned from that site will help me navigate my relationship with my adult children. I find value there.

There is a lot to learn if you read and think objectively.  If you believe there is nothing that should ever cause a cut off you won't get it.

Re: the minuses. As I have stated before, I don't like them and wish they were eliminated. We all have our own opinions, backgrounds and way of looking at things. Just because someone doesn't like my opinion, they shouldn't minus me, just as I shouldn't minus them for not agreeing with me. We are not all sheep with our heads nodding at the same time. I welcome the diversity of thought and really don't like the minuses if someone thinks differently than someone else.  This is my pet peeve.

I just think we can all learn from each other, both sides. I know I have learned a lot here and there.

Meryl :)

cremebrulee

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Re: The
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2010, 08:13:38 AM »
I didn't realize this had posted. I was writing the subject line last and it disappeared after I wrote "The". I meant to write The Flip Side.  What sparked the post is I read the question from the MIL on the other site. I read all of the replies. Some tried to answer the MIL about trying everything before the cut off. The MIL poster came back and it was clear and obvious that she did not understand at all. Calling the dils a pack of wild dogs is no way to get to a common meeting ground. I will say this again:

Just as the posters here have been hurt by probably toxic daughter in laws, so have the posters there been hurt by probably toxic mils.  We are not talking about normal people. Anyone can be a parent. To parent is different. Criminals, crazy people, terrorists all know how to procreate. Just because you are a parent does not mean you are a good person. (Stay with me, I've been saying you generically - I don't know who posted).

We are not talking about good people. We are talking about people who will do anything at any cost to undermine the nuclear family of their children just to get their way. These are their stories just as the stories here are your stories. They hurt too and have tried reasonable means to try and change the dyanamic. When it didn't work, then the inlaws and in some cases parents were cut off.

I do not post there. I have a nice MIL. What I have learned from that site will help me navigate my relationship with my adult children. I find value there.

There is a lot to learn if you read and think objectively.  If you believe there is nothing that should ever cause a cut off you won't get it.

Re: the minuses. As I have stated before, I don't like them and wish they were eliminated. We all have our own opinions, backgrounds and way of looking at things. Just because someone doesn't like my opinion, they shouldn't minus me, just as I shouldn't minus them for not agreeing with me. We are not all sheep with our heads nodding at the same time. I welcome the diversity of thought and really don't like the minuses if someone thinks differently than someone else.  This is my pet peeve.

I just think we can all learn from each other, both sides. I know I have learned a lot here and there.

Meryl :)

I can't agree with you more Meryl on everything you have posted here and feel the same way....

thank you and hugs
Creme

2chickiebaby

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Re: The
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2010, 08:18:01 AM »
I didn't realize this had posted. I was writing the subject line last and it disappeared after I wrote "The". I meant to write The Flip Side.  What sparked the post is I read the question from the MIL on the other site. I read all of the replies. Some tried to answer the MIL about trying everything before the cut off. The MIL poster came back and it was clear and obvious that she did not understand at all. Calling the dils a pack of wild dogs is no way to get to a common meeting ground. I will say this again:

Just as the posters here have been hurt by probably toxic daughter in laws, so have the posters there been hurt by probably toxic mils.  We are not talking about normal people. Anyone can be a parent. To parent is different. Criminals, crazy people, terrorists all know how to procreate. Just because you are a parent does not mean you are a good person. (Stay with me, I've been saying you generically - I don't know who posted).

We are not talking about good people. We are talking about people who will do anything at any cost to undermine the nuclear family of their children just to get their way. These are their stories just as the stories here are your stories. They hurt too and have tried reasonable means to try and change the dyanamic. When it didn't work, then the inlaws and in some cases parents were cut off.

I do not post there. I have a nice MIL. What I have learned from that site will help me navigate my relationship with my adult children. I find value there.

There is a lot to learn if you read and think objectively.  If you believe there is nothing that should ever cause a cut off you won't get it.

Re: the minuses. As I have stated before, I don't like them and wish they were eliminated. We all have our own opinions, backgrounds and way of looking at things. Just because someone doesn't like my opinion, they shouldn't minus me, just as I shouldn't minus them for not agreeing with me. We are not all sheep with our heads nodding at the same time. I welcome the diversity of thought and really don't like the minuses if someone thinks differently than someone else.  This is my pet peeve.

I just think we can all learn from each other, both sides. I know I have learned a lot here and there.

Meryl :)

Meryl,
I think some of you must be dealing with people we're just not used to being around.  That might be the problem....they
are not in our social circles, I guess.  The way the MILs you speak of are behaving is foreign to me and I'm sure foreign to
most MILs here. 

I agree that we are coming from different angles.  We are good people and so are they, very good people.  We're dealing
with different personalities..you're dealing with pathologically unstable people?  Is that it?

Meryl

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Re: The
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2010, 08:21:03 AM »
I'd also like to point out that we don't like it when people come in here guns blazing.  We would prefer that they lurk a bit, find out the backgrounds of the posters and write in a calm, respectful way.

It's the same for them.

Except they are MUCH more direct in their communication, there's no pussy-footing around over there.  I think it might actually be a common problem between MIL's & DIL's, because if you're an indirect communicator, then a direct communicator can come off as attacking, whereas to a direct communicator, an indirect communicator appears to be sneaky and manipulative.  Neither is wrong, you just have to see which one you are and which one you're talking to.  And if you want your point to be taken, you have to try and be more direct/indirect.


I think Scoop is on to something. A lot of problems could be eliminated if we understood each other's way of communicating. I am very direct. My motto is "Say what you mean and mean what you say". In the IL family, it has always been "Oh that Meryl, you never know what she is going to say next". I have been direct when everyone else is pussy-footing around. It's just my way. That is just part of me, not all of me. They also understand that I am fair when both families are concerned - that is a given. My MIL can get mad and control by her silence. Not my way. But I do understand her way.   If the DIL is direct to everyone, then it is a pretty good chance she is not personally trying to be mean to MIL.
 

Offline Pen

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Re: The
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2010, 09:11:17 AM »
Maybe my attitude is skewed by my personal experience with my DIL, but the feeling I get in a lot of these cases is that some DILS are looking for reasons to hate their ILs. They see what they want and spin the "evidence" to their husbands, our DSs, to "cut them from the herd." There's no way we can have a relationship in a situation like that; we're doomed the minute the ring goes on her finger. My mom dealt with a truly awful MIL, so I learned what not to do. There are toxic, undermining MILs out there, but most of the MILs I know personally are not; they're shocked when their DILs turn on them suddenly with such venom. It makes any kind of communication impossible when you know you are disliked for being DS's parents.

I've been over this again and again, trying to come up with a reason, something I can change or do to make it better, but as DS says "It's not you, it's her." I would add, "It's her family, too." I wish it was just a communication problem in our situation!

Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

MLW07

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Re: The
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2010, 10:21:40 AM »
Meryl-

You hit it dead on; I totally agree with your summation.

Thanks!