Author Topic: Observations  (Read 2592 times)

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cremebrulee

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Observations
« on: December 21, 2009, 05:15:58 PM »
My last two visits to see them, I became less intimidated by my DIL and more tuned into observe...I used to get so nervous around her...afraid I'd do or say something that would puss her off...

Here are some observations...

When I would go to visit…the first day, she’d be nice, but as the days progressed, she’d become more and more withdrawn.

Whenever we went anywhere, well, let me put it this way…whenever you’re walking with a guest or another couple…what do you do?  You walk and talk together…right?  Well, every time we would go out…she’d grab him by the arm and pull him way ahead of me…I mean way ahead…didn’t really bother me, as I became used to her manipulative intent to let me know that I wasn’t welcome.  It seemed my son was infatuated with this attention she was giving him, so he didn’t take notice…but she was that intimidated by me, that she had to grab him and walk ahead of me, me always trailing in the rear.  I found it hard to keep up as I have two knee replacements.

When we’d go back to the house, she’d snuggle up close to him on the sofa...and oh, by the way, she never asked what anyone wanted to watch, (and to be polite, you would say, whatever you want to watch, but she never asked) it was always, a click and you had to watch what she wanted.  So, she’d snuggle up close to him on the sofa, and whisper to him…never including me in conversation, simply whispering to him???…and it was the same in the car…she’d play this childish little whispering game.

Once, I was taking my GD back to her…when I’d watch her on weekends, back then, my DIL worked…probably b/c everyone else up here worked, and she’d have been embarrassed not to…anyway, I figured she worked all day, so I’d take my GD and drop her back home, so my DIL could go home and change…well, once, my GD was carrying her blankie when she got out of the car…she saw her mommy come to the door and she started to run and fell down, she didn’t cry, or wasn’t hurt, and my DIL became enraged, and bent down and picked her up so roughly, like it was my fault that her daughter fell…
Man, does she have a short fuse?

When they came back home to live for that year…and I was watching my GD…I showed my DIL all the things I got for my GD, including a training potty…she never said a word.  So the first time my GD went potty, we made a huge party out of it…and I called her daddy and we told my foster mom, and yelled and screamed, hip hip hoorayed when I took her back to her mommie…and told her, I saw my GD get really sad, as if she knew my DIL was going to get angry…and boy did she get angry…and the next day my son bought my GD, he told me to never potty train her again…but my DIL didn’t say a word to me about it?????  I really think, my DIL hates it when other people are happy…I mean it, as I said before, I think a lot of times she’s angry and doesn’t even know why.

My DIL was working, so my son bought over my GD for her birthday.  I had gotten her a small cake, and some presents, and the 3 of us had birthday cake.
 
Much later, years later, it was mentioned, like remember the time…and my DIL said real angry…“I didn’t know you had a birthday cake for her????”  It’s like she has to approve if you can have a good time or not and she hates it when you do…

My last visit, we were on the way back to the Airport...we stopped to purchase something, and while my son was talking with the salesperson, I tried talking to her, you know, general chit chat...well, she gives me this mean look and walks away, to the front t of the store, and sits there like she's the victim...she gets this sad puppy dog look on her face????  But when I got out of the car, I said, thanks for everything, and she turns around so sweet in front of my son and say..."My Pleasure.!"  Why can't she be like that all the time...?  Do youknow I don't even know my son any more, what he likes...and he probably feels so confused, like if he calls me then he's being disloyal to her?

Not only allowing, but love is encouraging your spouce to go ahead and have a good time, to succeed, even if that means, leaving us behind...once in a while...that would and did always make me happy. 

Some folks fight over their children i the same way...I used to ask my son...where do you want to be this holiday season...andif he said, with his dad, sure it hurt a little, but I wanted him to be happy...why fight, and demand that he be with me, if he didn't want to be...I think it took a lot of pressure off of him...the same with spouces...it's they're life to...why make someone you say you love, live your idea of what they're life and marriage should be?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 05:56:33 AM by cremebrulee »

2chickiebaby

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Re: Observations
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2009, 05:26:22 PM »
oh, Lord, it's so sad!!  Why can't people just be good to others?  Your DIL is a mean and angry person and can't stand the attention you might get. 

People will regret how they've been, take it to the bank.  If they are human, they will regret their actions. 

cremebrulee

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Re: Observations
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2009, 05:37:16 PM »
yes, I know, again...her behavior isn't normal...you'd think she'd be happy for anything anyone else gave to her daughter, but she is very envious...

Like, what mother do you know, would open a package that the grandparents sent to her daughter, and not only throw them away, but deprive the little girl the joy of not only getting a package in the mail, but also, opening it?  How selfish is that?

I really fear, my DIL is narcissistic? 

I took out a loan before I went down to visit them the last time, wanted to wine and dine them...take them out, and we went to these fast food places, and sat around the rest of the time, didn't go anywhere.  Usually when I go down she works, but she didn't so we had to do what she wanted to do...and I was paying for the resturants, but nope, we had to go to where she wanted to go.  I think, and I'm just guessing, that perhaps she wanted to make my visit so miserable, that I'd never come back...she is very self indulgent.

2chickiebaby

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Re: Observations
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2009, 05:40:37 PM »
Creme, She's a sad lady who will live in misery her whole life.  So ridiculous!

Offline isitme?

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Re: Observations
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2009, 06:40:52 AM »
Creme, I think you're right and your DIL has some kind of narcissitic or other kind of personality disorder.  I've been reading up on these things a lot and while it helps, I understand the frustration because you often feel like there's nothing you can you.

I think your DIL's behavior is terrible.  Whatever insecurities, whatever perceived issues she may have with you, she should not be acting this way.  It's NOT you. 

Does it help to have insight into a person's behavior like this - I mean, in terms of accepting it and trying to move past the hurt and anger?  I feel like it helps a little with my FMIL directly - but then I find myself feeling angry and hurt that BF doesn't see it the same way - or at least won't acknowledge it.  But of course he doesn't, it's his own mother and I understand that.  And I also know it's not my place to say "Hey, I think your mother has a personality disorder."  Counseling is hopefully going to help us this way... But I wanted to ask,  do you feel that way with your son?  Somehow betrayed because he won't acknowledge the personality disorder that his wife has and it's consequent effect on you and the rest of his family (including his own child).  Maybe he does, but doesn't want to burden you with the details and like some of you ladies with difficult DILs sometimes suggest,  maybe he feels trapped and like he has to deal with this on his own?  I'm just thinking in general about the people who are closest to these unhealthy personalities:  it's not us, it's the people we love who bear the brunt...and we deal with the fallout.  How can we help them?  And is the help/support I would give my BF as his partner so different than the help/support you, Creme, would give to your son as his mother?  As part of my reading on personality disorders, I did some reading on Stockholm syndrome... and one article I read seems to suggest that all we can do is offer our love unconditionally...

Invisible

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Re: Observations
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2009, 08:23:20 AM »
There are no misunderstandings between my DIL and myself. I know exactly how much she hates me. After my son died she wrote me several letters clearly stating and reasserting her disgust.  The only way I could accommodate her is if I stop breathing immediately and give her everything I own.

cremebrulee

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Re: Observations
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2009, 08:36:53 AM »
Quote
isitme?
Creme, I think you're right and your DIL has some kind of narcissitic or other kind of personality disorder.  I've been reading up on these things a lot and while it helps, I understand the frustration because you often feel like there's nothing you can you.

Yes, your right, there is nothing anyone can do...and yes, I've been reading up on this for years...my maternal mother is narcissitic...it's such a shame...the older she becomes, the less functional she is...isitme, I cannot tell you how greatful I am for my foster family...you have no idea...and maybe the lesson is...I could be very much like my DIL...if it hadn't been for them?  I don't hate her, or dislike her...I hate her behavior...there were times, when she could be so much fun...

Quote
I think your DIL's behavior is terrible.  Whatever insecurities, whatever perceived issues she may have with you, she should not be acting this way.  It's NOT you




 How can we help them? 

We can't, they muyst help themselves...they feel they  have no problems...and make excuses for the problem...even if that means everyone else is wrong....being right at all cost to save his marriage and quit frankly, I would rather have it this way, then see them break up...not over me...

And is the help/support I would give my BF as his partner so different than the help/support you, Creme, would give to your son as his mother?  As part of my reading on personality disorders, I did some reading on Stockholm syndrome... and one article I read seems to suggest that all we can do is offer our love unconditionally...
I would make certain, before you marry that you two have had extensive counseling...b/c there has to be repercussions from being raised like this...be observant...watch how he talks to you, does he have respect for himself, b/c if he doesn, he will have respect for you...but you want to make certain, he is not the kind of man who willl change drastically once your married...hugs, Creme

cremebrulee

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Re: Observations
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2009, 08:39:26 AM »
There are no misunderstandings between my DIL and myself. I know exactly how much she hates me. After my son died she wrote me several letters clearly stating and reasserting her disgust.  The only way I could accommodate her is if I stop breathing immediately and give her everything I own.

OMG, I just cannot fathom anyone harboring that much contempt and hate...to actually write you letters confirming her dislike for you?  Why?  What does she get out of that..?  She really needs help...and I'm so so sorry, she did this...after loosing your son, you'd think she'd have some sense of compassion...hate really distroys a person...and so many other lives...she will be held accountable someday if she doesn't change....I'm so sorry...

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Re: Observations
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2009, 09:09:54 AM »
Invisible.. it does sound horrible.  No matter what relationship you may have had with her, communicating with you in that way after the death of your son is unconscionable (sp?)...

Creme:  Thanks.  I think this is one of the main reasons me and BF have started counseling.  He is a wonderful guy and wonderful to me but there are some things I've noticed that may stem from his family situation - he finds it hard to admit any weaknesses (his family ridicules one another often), he sometimes seems afraid to disagree with me because he thinks I will react badly the way his mother and SIL do (we've reeeally worked on this one), and finds it hard to express emotion sometimes (although I'm not sure how much this is because he's an oblivious guy and how much is due to his unhealthy upbringing).  He denies having any self-esteem problems but that was something our counselor identified right away - I'm going to let her talk to him about it on his own for now....I've also noticed that he and his brother have an EXTREMELY high tolerance for bad/weird behavior.  I see it not just with his mom but also with his SIL (they think it's a little "quirk" when she flashes her money around and then calls herself "working class" - I think this is out of touch with reality).  This bothered me for a long long time because I was worried that I was also controlling, narcissistic etc..  He has always treated me with respect but sometimes I've felt like he was just humoring me the way he humors his mother and SIL....but we've talked about it and he doesn't.  I think he's always wanted a close family but has never experienced it himself so he thought he could just throw me in the mix and we would all be one big dysfunctional family together....and that by ignoring the bad behavior around us, we could be happy.  But now he realizes it's not possible.   I want us both to be able to break this cycle of dysfunction so that we can have a happy family - not that I"m trying to impose my own family way on him - I realize we're both going to have to make compromises.  And we need to include his family - no question.  But what we're trying to work out in counseling is how to do that in a HEALTHY way....But no matter what, I have a feeling his mother is always going to be unhappy.  And that makes me sad because the more we try to include her, the unhappier WE will become...

cremebrulee

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Re: Observations
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2009, 01:18:23 PM »
Invisible.. it does sound horrible.  No matter what relationship you may have had with her, communicating with you in that way after the death of your son is unconscionable (sp?)...

Creme:  Thanks.  I think this is one of the main reasons me and BF have started counseling.  He is a wonderful guy and wonderful to me but there are some things I've noticed that may stem from his family situation - he finds it hard to admit any weaknesses (his family ridicules one another often), he sometimes seems afraid to disagree with me because he thinks I will react badly the way his mother and SIL do (we've reeeally worked on this one), and finds it hard to express emotion sometimes (although I'm not sure how much this is because he's an oblivious guy and how much is due to his unhealthy upbringing).  He denies having any self-esteem problems but that was something our counselor identified right away - I'm going to let her talk to him about it on his own for now....I've also noticed that he and his brother have an EXTREMELY high tolerance for bad/weird behavior.  I see it not just with his mom but also with his SIL (they think it's a little "quirk" when she flashes her money around and then calls herself "working class" - I think this is out of touch with reality).  This bothered me for a long long time because I was worried that I was also controlling, narcissistic etc..  He has always treated me with respect but sometimes I've felt like he was just humoring me the way he humors his mother and SIL....but we've talked about it and he doesn't.  I think he's always wanted a close family but has never experienced it himself so he thought he could just throw me in the mix and we would all be one big dysfunctional family together....and that by ignoring the bad behavior around us, we could be happy.  But now he realizes it's not possible.   I want us both to be able to break this cycle of dysfunction so that we can have a happy family - not that I"m trying to impose my own family way on him - I realize we're both going to have to make compromises.  And we need to include his family - no question.  But what we're trying to work out in counseling is how to do that in a HEALTHY way....But no matter what, I have a feeling his mother is always going to be unhappy.  And that makes me sad because the more we try to include her, the unhappier WE will become...

again I commend you for not putting on the blinders...and remember...the part you explained about humoring his mother...that is part of him...he is conditioned to be however he is to deal with her...therefore, it will carry over...we are all conditioned to be who we are....remember that...

and yes, your wise to remember that people don't change unless they want to change, or if they're is a great loss which wakes them up...remember, my story about my maternal mother, as a little girl I said over and over again, I do not ever want to be like her...I want to be like my foster mom...and I prayed and prayed that I'd never be a hateful self absorbed person, or ever let money be a prioity in decission making...

I'm sorry my spelling and typing is not so good, but for some reason...whenever I post something, it doesn't work right...I can't explain it, and it will not allow me to quote within the reply....sjust so you know, it won't allow me to see what I'm typing,...

You have a long road ahead of you..but your BF is lucky to have you...and hopefully it willl all turn out nicely for all concerned...Good luck and your in my thoughts and prayers...

big hugs

2chickiebaby

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Re: Observations
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2009, 01:22:36 PM »
Creme,
You are such a wise woman....I think your words are very consoling and I just love them.  You have been given a wonderful gift in words of healing.  Maybe that's why you have been through so much....to help others.  :)

Offline isitme?

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Re: Observations
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2009, 01:28:37 PM »
I second Chickie's statement.  Thanks Creme..

ps - I've never really noticed that many typos...more focused on the wisdom of your words I guess  ;)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 01:31:07 PM by isitme? »

cremebrulee

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Re: Observations
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2009, 03:41:57 AM »
yesterday my son and grand daughter called me on Web Cam...it was so nice finally seeing GD.  They were sitting in the kitchen and we were having a really nice chat...then, DIL walked across the room, did not come to say hello, not one word, just walked across the room, to let me know, she hates me and she won't say hello.  She had that angry look on her face...hateful....I shudder to think what she'd do and how she'd treat my son if they would break up...I hope to God they don't...but if they would...let me tell you, you think you know someone, until you go thru a divorce, and then you ask yourself, how in the world could I have been married to someone like that? 

I am rest assured, that my son and his wife, would never split...

You should have seen her actions when I'm around, so afraid of even a conversation he and I were having...

You'd think, in that particular moment, she'd allow for 10 minutes....but nope...I tell you, I used to think she was beautiful...now, I only see what's inside...a very angry woman.

She does everything she can to remind me, she has control....I keep thinking of my Girlfriend who has 4 DIL's who love her so...who call her constantly, the one, almost everyday...they organize birthday parties for her, and help her out on other holidays...they are such a close family b/c of it...I wonder what that would be like?
Oh the joy, huh?

My DIL is so much like my son's step mom...so insecure, and needing to have center stage at all times...
It must drive her nuts when my son and I are getting along and talking...
When I told my young friend at work about the tomboy issue...she flipped...she is my DIL's age, and she absolutely flipped...she gets so angry about this situation, she says, Creme, I would love to be in room alone for 1 minute with your DIL...this stuff is kindergarden, your DIL...and then she stopped and said, Please, don't get me started...the lives she is ruining is unheard of and someday she will get hers...I hope not, I hope she wakes up, but doubt very much she will....
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 03:49:45 AM by cremebrulee »

2chickiebaby

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Re: Observations
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2009, 05:33:03 AM »
Creme, this is common for the DILs to make a statement by walking through..sending a message that she is there, arms folded, marching by, like an elf from a bad dream.   She disappears and then, if it doesn't work, she marches back for another view.  "In charge"

cremebrulee

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Re: Observations
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2009, 05:52:53 AM »
exactly!
I guess it's a lot easier to show her hate, then it is to just simply be nice...it was like
I'm here, but I won't say hello...I hate you.....