UGHHHH!!!!!

[Pooh]

I have a little bit of a different take on this.  If your explainations are being turned around on you, then that person didn't truly want to know why, just wanted an argument and I don't blame you for not wasting your time.

But as a MIL and Mother, I would like an explaination and not just an "I say so".  I don't have to have a page long explaination or details, but I think it is just courteous to say, "Sorry we can't come because we have other plans already."  That's all that I want and then it is just fine.

As a DIL and Daughter, I always offered a short explaination.  And as a Mother, I never told my children "No" without offering up a short explaination.  I didn't offer then a page long explaination either, but didn't use the words "Because I said so."  It might be as simple as "Because you did not eat your dinner" or "Because it's not safe" but something or I felt like they didn't understand. 

Now again, you would have to have both parties being able to communicate this way.  It's not that I think my children OWE me an explaination, just courtesy and nothing I don't do myself when communicating with them and others.  But as many have pointed out on this forum before, that is my personal choice to be a courteous person.  I still say "Please" and "Thank you" too to perfect strangers as well as friends and family.

[cremebrulee]

I'm new here (and a DIL - sorry), but I do have a question.  Is it ever okay for your adult child to just tell you no and not give you a reason? 

***I am not saying that your son was wrong or right to say "because I said so", Erma.  I am simply curious about in general being told no and asking why not.***

I know that this was a common complaint of my MIL.  My husband and I would explain the reason for our no to her.  She would turn this around as a jumping off point to negotiate or try to pooh-pooh our reasoning.  It finally got to the point where we would respond with just "no" and "because I said no".  Unfortunately, it was usually me doing this, as my DH didn't want to deal with her or talk to her.  She would tell everyone else how I was so disrespectful of her position as DH's mother.  She did tell me once that I owed her an explanation.  I viewed it much differently than she did, and thought I was justified in not giving her reasons.  From reading on here for a few months, I'm just curious if some of the other MIL think they deserve an answer when they ask "why not"?

I didn't read if you got any other responds, but here is my take.....

sometimes, no, a lot of times, you can say no to a person, by saying, "ummm, I don't think so, or that's not my take, or I don't care at all for that"....however, people don't hear you saying no....they just go ahead and continue to do as they please, without considering the feelings of the person saying no....and sometimes you can come right out and say no to people and they still don't listen...so in your case, with your MIL, you simply shut down, and by the way, another perfect examply of how your husband allowed you to be the bad guy in your MIL's eyes, and that's so wrong....but in a lot of cases, it wouldn't matter, even if the son tells his own mother "no", she is going to blame you for changing him....so, your damed if you do and damed if you don't. 

In answer to your question, sometimes, adult children get real tired of saying no and not being heard or respected, so they simply shut down and don't give an answer, or to, they are afraid, it will spark a big debate.  You see, once your a mother, it's very difficult to hear our adult children say no....we are used to being the matron, making all the decissons, and pretty much having our own way for all those years our kids are growing up....

does that shed some light

Creme

[Pooh]

Oh and Yoda, I just realized you put in parenthesis that you were a DIL and Sorry?  No reason for you to apologize for being a DIL.  I appreciate other perspectives.  And also, I am a Mother, a Grandmother, a MIL and a DIL.  I don't apologize for being any of those. 

[erma]

hi yoda, I'm a mil and a dil as well.  but to answer your question, ya, its perfectly fine to answer with that phrase, unless your my son.  i have excepted that answer from him as well, except in some situations.
he uses that phrase with me to be rude and unpleasant. it goes back to his childhood, when he would ask to do something that would hurt him, i would tell him no. he would then ask over and over and over, why, i would tell him why, and he would bug me until i used the phrase," because i said so" then he knew, conversation over, case closed. he uses that now on me for the same reason.  now, mind you, i do not ask him for an explanation often, but when i do,  he usually gives me one up front, or i just except his decline. let me rephrase here, i do not ask for "explanations" , if its important enough for me to have an answer as to "why not", i will use the phrase, "oh, you have something else planned"?!
but unlike your situation, i don't feel my dil owes me anyhing except the same respect i give her. i have never, and will never speak to her that way, even though she has to me, and of me, even when I'm standing in the room beside her. 
so long story short, there are still some things i still expect from my children, respect being one of them. i will always expect that from them at the very least. they don't get to be rude and disrespectful to us one day, then expect us to keep turning a blind eye to it every time.
i believe as a mother, and a mother in law, and as a daughter in law, and a grand mother, in your words, "believe I'm justified "in asking a question or two, sometimes, to my son. that doesn't mean ill get an answer, but i will ask.
for the most part, yoda, at least for me, its not what we say, its how we say it.

[luise.volta]

I keep thinking of the people I know that ask questions when they don't want an answer. They want debate.

"I am too tired to go."
"Why are you tired?
"I just am."
"Don't you get enough rest"
"That's not the point."
"Well, excuse me, what is the point?"
I'm just too tired to go."
"I get that. Why?"

[Pooh]

Oh you would hate me then Luise....I work for 911....I am trained to ask why!  Lol.

[erma]

exactly!!  what Luise said!!   

[luise.volta]

You're excused, Pooh.

"911!, may I help you?"
I don't feel good and beside that, I'm scared."
That's OK, Sweetie, no biggie. Take two Asperin and call me in the morning."

[Pooh]

Hee hee.  Actually, I said that in jest.  It's the opposite.  We are trained to get the facts, and weed out the details.  I have to watch myself in my personal life, because I find myself doing that to my friends out of habit. 

"So this guy I went out with, you know I told you I signed up...."
"Yes, you told me already, what happened."
"Well he took me first to this place, well first he came to the door and had on...."
"Ok, seriously what happened.  I don't care what he was wearing."
"UHHHHH.....turn the 911 off and just listen!"
"Oops."

[luise.volta]

  You are such a hoot!! 

[Yoda]

Thank you for your answers.  We are currently not speaking to my MIL for numerous reasons.  Since part of our beef with her was the why not thing, I just wanted to make sure I was not out of line.  I volleyball between knowing we are doing what is right for our family right now to feeling like we should give MIL yet another chance. Mostly, I feel we have done what is right for our family. 

[Pen]

Here's a tactic:

- I'm sorry I just can't make it.

Why not?

- Exactly! I'm glad you understand!

Or:

- I'm sorry I just can't make it.

Why not?

- Why not indeed.

[holliberri]

he uses that phrase with me to be rude and unpleasant. it goes back to his childhood, when he would ask to do something that would hurt him, i would tell him no. he would then ask over and over and over, why, i would tell him why, and he would bug me until i used the phrase," because i said so" then he knew, conversation over, case closed. he uses that now on me for the same reason.  now, mind you, i do not ask him for an explanation often, but when i do,  he usually gives me one up front, or i just except his decline. let me rephrase here, i do not ask for "explanations" , if its important enough for me to have an answer as to "why not", i will use the phrase, "oh, you have something else planned"?!

Erma,

If this goes back to his childhood, it can't exactly be attributed to DIL, I don't think. I'm not saying she hasn't been rude or said inappropriate things before, but if this has been going on a long time, it sounds like it is his problem, not hers.

I think sometimes it is easier to lay the blame on someone else than it is to think the problem may lie with someone close to us.  However, that doesn't necessarily resolve the problem and can often make it worse.

My DH didn't feel like flying down to see his family 2 weeks before we saw them on New Years and 3 weeks after we just saw them for Thanksgiving.  The blame fell on me; it couldn't have possibly been that he was tired. I automatically talked him out of it.  This wasn't the case; in fact, he answered before I even processed the invitation in my head.  He also asked MIL to back off with our DIL; that became my issue with her, not his issue with her.  Not only do I think this is unfair to me, it totally invalidates any real issues DH has with his mother.  How can a relationship flourish this way? I'm not sure that it can.

I don't know the details of your relationship with your DIL, and I'm sure that there have been a few issues, but if he is the one that said what he said on the phone, his is the one to blame, not her. No matter what she might be saying to him, if he is the one acting, your issue lies with him, I think.

[forever spring]

So so sorry to hear about your pain. I think I can empathise with it.
I moved  (from a distance of 20,000 miles in NZ to a 10 mins walk distance) to be nearer ds and dil and help with the gc. I made that choice. I was looking forward to a family idyll where I would be the loving grandma, playing with the 3 year old while nursing the little newborn - how wrong can one be? I didn't heed friends' advice to reconsider - in I went into the dragon's den (well not quite that bad, but near). I've never encountered a situation such as this and I can plainly say that most of the time I am not happy. I made many mistakes and whenever I open my mouth in dil and ds presence I put my foot in ... UGHHHHH!!! Would I be more poular if I were  mute?
Still I see this situation as part of the rich fabric of life and for the moment I will hang in there for better or for worse. I know now that I cannot be 'goody two shoes', but I can ask them to respect me and I will respect them in return. My son is now a husband and a father and I have accepted this with gratitude, because he is doing a good job with looking after his family who is the focus of his life. I will be clear about the fact that I want to celebrate our differences from now on rather than see them as a negative. If that does not work, so be it. I will know that I have given it my best shot for the time being. If it doesn't work I will leave and hope that I will still be around and healthy when the grandchildren are ready to come to me on their own accord. Are we all trying too hard - and should we sometimes not follow the good advice and 'let it be?'

[Pooh]

Holli, I totally agree with you that the blame needs to be laid on the DS or DD, whichever the situation.  But I am going to be honest.  My DH loves me and would do anything for me and I could totally sway his opinions if I chose to do so. (I do not, because that would be wrong and I am a firm believer in letting someone make up their own mind), but I could.  Why?  Because he loves me, he lives with me, he sleeps with me, I am his wife and I take care of him.

And that is how it should be.  His loyalty should be to me, his wife.  The difference is that I do not sway him, pout or punish him for his beliefs.  I respect his Mother and I want him to have a relationship with her.  I love his Mother, but even if I didn't (been there, done that, got the t-shirt from the first marriage) I would be encouraging him to go see her.  That's just me and my beliefs on what type of wife and person I want to be.  I see on here all the time where women say, it's not my responsibility to buy my MIL birthday cards, Mother's Day cards, tell him to call her, etc.  But for me, I agreed to take on that responsibility when I married him.  I don't make him do it, but I remind him and pick up her gifts.  If he mentioned his brother's birthday and wanting to get him a card, when I was out, I would grab one for him.  If he said he wanted to buy his Boss a card, I would grab it to.  Because I agreed to have a loving, respectful, mutual marriage.  I take care of him, he takes care of me.  It works both ways.  He would do the same for me.  So no, it is not my responsibility, but I like helping him because I love him.

So if you have a DIL that is not encouraging, and actually discouraging the relationship or making it hard on them to have the relationship, to me, it is her fault too.  (This would apply to DDs and SILs too). This is just how I view it with my situation but I also know there are DIL's that do encourage it and finally get tired of being the one that gets blamed, when they are not doing anything wrong and give up. (That's the t-shirt I own).