Author Topic: new day, new issiue  (Read 4310 times)

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erma

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new day, new issiue
« on: November 14, 2010, 08:40:12 AM »
oh what a morning!  i was invited to go shopping yesterday with ds and dil and gc. of coarse i went to be with gc and ds. as we were strolling casually down the isle of the mall, ds turns to me and blurts out, "WERE GONNA MOVE IN WITH HER PARENTS FOR A WHILE TO SAVE FOR A NEW HOUSE" !!!!!!!    :o :o :o   i was so shocked, i felt my knees buckle!!!  they have a beautiful new home they live in now, but she wants a big yard for gc. nothing wrong with that part, but she is willing to walk away from this home, because of the housing market, forgo their credit, because "everybody doing it" just for a bigger yard!!!!  they make a nice 6 figure income, they can absolutely afford to stay in their home, no money problems, she just doesn't see the point of paying for a home that has lost so much value!!
ok,the market crashed, we all are aware of that, i said, does that mean we ruin our perfect credit scores just because we no longer like it?  or the value dropped???
this is soooooo risky behavior! my ds has never had a stain on his financially situation and now he's willing to go along with this?   her foo has lots of money, and they will proudly tell you that, and they will also tell you they claimed bankruptcy a number of times to get what they have today! 
we (me and dh) are not even close to that. we chug along and raised our kids to be grateful for what you have, not what you dont. allmy kids are now successful contributing adults now, but this is just bad, really bad! 
but then again, on the other hand, maybe living under the same roof, (mansion) with them, maybe ds will get a clue.
 and i was feeling so good
  just sad.
 :'(   one day at a time

Offline elsieshaye

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Re: new day, new issiue
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2010, 08:49:53 AM »
I'm sorry.  It's hard to watch them make mistakes, no matter how old they are.
This too shall pass.  All is well.

seasage

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Re: new day, new issiue
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2010, 08:56:06 AM »
Uh oh.  This is not a small issue.  I'm trying to think what I would do if my DS said the same to me.  (He too is in a house whose market value has dropped.  He too has married into a rich family.)

The questions I would be asking myself are: What is the simplest single message I want to give him?  How do I say this message without getting his back up?

Answer to the first question is simple.  I would want to tell him that ruining his good name (i.e. his good credit rating) is not sound planning.  I wonder if he understands that he probably will NOT be able to get that house he is saving for because he won't be able to get a mortgage with a poor credit rating.  I wonder if he has thought about the costs and financial ramifications of renting vs. owning his present house, because after walking away from his present house, after the inlaws ask them to leave, he and DIL will be renting.  Period.  For many years.

How to tell him?  I would try to maneuver a quiet lunch with him alone.  The best way to deliver the message in a manner that would get him to listen instead of feeling defensive --- well that IS the problem, isn't it?

justdontunderstand

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Re: new day, new issiue
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2010, 09:08:49 AM »
Erma,
If I read you right, you are confused/hurt that your son is rejecting a value taught to him--fulfilling his promises (mortgage).  Am I wrong in thinking that you see this as one more instance in which DIL is influencing him to do something you thought he would never do?

If I am right....I get it...I really do. My DIL has seemingly put demands on my DS that he has complied with that never fit with the values he was raised with....things like materialism, seeking money and prestige etc. Part of the reason we are estranged from DS as well as DIL is that he has changed so much since meeting her. Maybe he would have changed anyway but is it conincidence that it all started when she came on the scene?

One of the reason I am "Just Don't Understand" on this website is because I really don't understand! :P

erma

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Re: new day, new issiue
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2010, 09:12:14 AM »
yes seasage, i agree. i just couldn't respond yesterday at all. i merely said, "oh, hmmm" and quickly picked up a christmas item off the shelf and started playing with it with gc, so as to not continue with the conversation. however, dil picked up where ds left off telling me "everybodys doing it" and "it only ruins your credit for 7 yrs" and the best one was " MY BFF DID IT 2 YEARS AGO, AND THEY ARE ALREADY GETTING CREDIT CARDS BACK" !!!!
i could not even respond, i kept trying to smile and turn the corner.................UGH!
but yes, i will have set a private lunch one day with him. quickly.  i know he was really feeling awkward yesterday, i just could see it in his face. i believe this is all her idea. my ds has worked since he was 14 and could earn a paycheck, and i know what a good name means to him.
dil has always had money, so she really has no clue.
all i can do is say my concerns, maybe he will take heed, maybe not.   :-\

erma

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Re: new day, new issiue
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2010, 09:25:42 AM »
JDU, he still has his values, i truly believe in my heart of hearts, he feels awkward about it, and wanted my opinion yesterday, and wanted me to explain it to dil. meaning, i tell her the problems with claiming bankruptcy, she sees me as the bad guy, and ds walks away scottfree, but gets his point across.
that's the eggs we need to watch out for!  i love my ds AND dil dearly, i don't wish them to do this, i will attempt to have a private lunch with ds and remind him of why this isn't a good idea.
what they chose to do after that, well, its up to them. will it hurt me beyond words to see that happen?? of coarse.
can i do anything about it? no.
i am an extremely intuitive person, i just believe in yesterdays instance, he was wanting me to say something to discourage dil.
nope, hes a big boy, he must deal with his own.
 :-X :-\ :'(

seasage

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Re: new day, new issiue
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2010, 09:31:07 AM »
i am an extremely intuitive person, i just believe in yesterdays instance, he was wanting me to say something to discourage dil.
nope, hes a big boy, he must deal with his own.
 :-X :-\ :'(

I am sure your intuition is correct.  I think he wants you to confirm and reinforce his value system, the one he learned from you.

seasage

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Re: new day, new issiue
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2010, 09:48:51 AM »
nope, hes a big boy, he must deal with his own.
 :-X :-\ :'(

Aside from the ethical issue, there is the sheer practical issue of money decisions.  It may or may not be a good decision to walk away from an underwater mortgage.  You and DS could begin exploring the financial issue together?  You may have more time to do the research than he.

Here is one site that gives a starting set of plus vs. minus points to consider: http://library.hsh.com/articles/homeowners-repeat-buyers/the-pros-and-cons-of-walking-away-from-your-mortgage.html

Something that also needs to be factored in is his present mortgage interest rate vs. future mortgage interest rate.  Rates at present are very low.  (DS might consider re-financing instead of walking away.)  In a couple of years, interest rates may be twice what they are now.  Some very good financial planners and economists are predicting that an inflationary period, or superinflationary period, will begin in ~two years or so.  This inflation will bring housing values back, and will also reset interest rates at a high value.

So the considerations your DS needs to think about are a lot different than the experiences of his kn-laws!!!!

LaurieS

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Re: new day, new issiue
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2010, 09:49:56 AM »
Is telling them that that is the dumbest thing you ever heard, be out of the question?

I would not lecture or offer advice about financial responsibilities because it's obvious they are perfectly aware of the consequences.. Instead I would ask your ds to go to a financial specialist and have him pay an outsider to help them work their way through an upside down mortgage.  They may be able to come up with a plan that works better and keeps him protected.

I had a friend who did what your son is proposing.. but first he bought another home, then let the current house go back to the bank.  It wasn't as devastating mortgage wise but it was hell on his credit rating.. so that effected his home insurance, car insurance, etc... Then he decided to switch jobs and ut oh it effected his job search as well... 

What's that old northern saying that was discussed here a few days ago.. You can lead a horse to water, if you find the lake frozen over just beat his head against the ice a few times, because you sure can't make him drink  (not really a saying but I thought it worked )  :D

erma

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Re: new day, new issiue
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2010, 10:18:41 AM »
lol, laurie, your humor!!!!!! :D ;D ;D   i will look at that site seasage, but, dil's career is an ACCOUNTANT for an entire county.  and all ethics aside, bankruptcy judges these days are not as lenient towards those who just walk away. i would hate to see either of them have their wages garnished, or worse, lose their jobs. and i believe they sit at 5% on their mortgage as is.
if they had no money, no liquid assets, no property, and didn't make the 6 figures, i might say it was a good idea. but for the sheer fact that she wants a "big yard" (she means more acres) is absurd.  :-X

seasage

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Re: new day, new issiue
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2010, 10:37:08 AM »
lol, laurie, your humor!!!!!! :D ;D ;D   i will look at that site seasage, but, dil's career is an ACCOUNTANT for an entire county.

Great job on the humor Laurie!
Erma, perhaps we should stipulate they were pulling your leg?

erma

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Re: new day, new issiue
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2010, 10:45:05 AM »
no, they were serious. that's what just floored me! i had to hear it twice, and then i just about fell over.
she may know about monies, but she has no clue when it comes to the courts. she only knows what she has been told by her "bff and foo"
with so many people falling in to forcloser and filing for bankruptcy,for the judges it has become the norm. but you cant hide your income from the IRS and THATS who provides the courts with the "true" incomes.

LaurieS

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Re: new day, new issiue
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2010, 11:00:58 AM »
All you can suggest is that they find an attorney and let him spell it out for them... Tell your ds to stop listening to the dil's foos and hear it from specialist before making such a enormous financial decision.

erma

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Re: new day, new issiue
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2010, 11:11:41 AM »
yep thats what im gonna do. thanks.

justdontunderstand

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Re: new day, new issiue
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2010, 11:36:21 AM »
Erma,
I am not trying to be argumentative (or unkind) but can someone still have their values if they go along with something against those values? I see what you are saying, that he seemed to want you to make the argument against the idea for him. But in the end, if he goes through with it--that is not maintaining the values he has. Is it?

I apply this to our situation with DIL and DS. I do not want to face up (sometimes) to the fact that we have a lot of the problems we do because DS has not lived up to  the values we thought we taught him--loyalty, thoughtfulness and general caring.