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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: stilltryen on April 20, 2011, 09:08:53 am

Title: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 20, 2011, 09:08:53 am
I don't work and stay at home.  When DIL found out she was pregnant, I told them I would babysit if they'd like me to.  DIL works at home two days a week, but on the two days she does go in to work (she works 4 10's and has Fridays off), both she and DS have to travel on the freeway close by.  You take an exit and come up the hill.  It takes roughly 13 minutes to reach my house after you get off the exit.  DS has to travel this way every day.  I told them I would watch the baby here at my house.

DIL took 4 months off to stay at home with her, which is great.  The next thing I know, she's lined up a daycare for $900 a month to watch baby for 2 days a week.  DS said DIL wanted the daycare to watch baby for 2 days a week, I would watch her for 1, and her mom (who has Thursdays off) would watch her for 1 day.  That way baby wouldn't get more attached to me.  I told DS I thought that was silly and thought they were nuts since they had a sitter for zero a month and I assumed they could put the $900 to better use somewhere else.  Oh, but DIL said the daycare came highly recommended, everyone who works there evidently graduated from Harvard (okay, being snarky, but guess they all have college degrees there).  I finished with my usual, "Hey, you two are going to do whatever, you know what choices you have."

Evidently DS convinced her that baby being with someone who loves her was better, so she reluctantly gave the daycare idea up and we were all set.  A month ago, DIL changes her mind and I now am being told that I must get up and travel to their home every morning to watch baby there.  It's better for her schedule, I'm told.  It's a 35 minute drive, through traffic, to get there.  Frankly, if they weren't practically passing right by my house, I might go for it.  Also, since DIL is working from home one of the days, I can imagine how uncomfortable that's going to be.  I asked DS if she had decided to take baby to daycare, would she have suddenly demanded that go to her house instead?  We're doing THEM a favor, and yet, we have to accomodate DIL.

The other day I watched baby while she went to the dentist.  Hubby was watching tv in the family room and I walked in to tell him something and suddenly realized how fascinated she was with the tv.  She couldn't keep her eyes off of it.  We laughed about it and I said, "No way missy!  We are not letting you go all tv zombie on us."  I walked back out.  Made the mistake of sharing this with DIL, that I had found out baby was fascinated by the tv.  Before I could finish, she said, "Oh, we don't allow her to watch tv."  I immediately shut up.  So then DS calls and evidently she's convinced I had her parked in front of the tube all day.  Next I get a long list of rules for watching baby.  Rule No. 1?  NO tv, and I'm not even allowed to have it on in the background because it's bad for her.  She's 3 months old.

I want to say, "You know, just forget it and take her somewhere else.  Get a stranger to come to your home."  I am so tired of always having to accomodate her.  She's a control freak and everything always has to be her way.  Can I get some advice here?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 20, 2011, 09:18:15 am
The door is still open. I would be really careful not to let it close unless that's what you want. It certainly isn't the ideal situation...but I sometimes think working moms make up lot of rules because they feel helpless with the separation working brings. Maybe it's be seen as a "good mom" thing to them. Sending love...
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 20, 2011, 09:22:33 am
If you can't be happy and comfortable with the situation then it will be hard to convey happiness and comfort to the baby.  I do feel that unless the baby is not feeling well, the child can and should be brought to your home.  New parents are notorious for making unreasonable demands while feeling that they are making the correct demands for their children.  But rest assure every move you make can be twisted into the wrong move.  Personally I think the original arrangement might have worked better for everyone.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Tara on April 20, 2011, 09:34:58 am
Hi Stilltryen,

I agree with Laurie, sounds like the first situation may have been more ideal
for you.

My dil just had twins and through this process I have been learned to
back off and let dil do things the way she wants.  She needs to feel
at ease and secure, and if she doesn't we as grandparents will probably end
up experiencing the consequences and we don't want that.   8).  (No offense
to my dil friends.)

  I mean this kindly but it sounds like you have tried
to exercise some control too by not just accepting her original iidea of part daycare
and part grandmothers care (by 2 grandmothers).  I don't mean sound critical
and maybe I've misunderstood.  I know your intentions were positive. 
I can tell you I've had so many difficulties with my dil that if she said something
like this, I'd say "that would be fine" if it worked for me.  The new generation of
families have to learn as they go
like we did.

Is it possible to give them a months notice and go back to dils original
plan. (this may not be what you want at this point)
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 20, 2011, 09:42:12 am
ST,

If I were you, and I knew the best place for the baby was with me and not in a daycare or with a stranger, and it was something I really wanted to do, b/c I spent time with the GK, then I think I would abide by all the rules, no matter how silly.

I have a list of silly rules for my DD too, but I pay a lot of money to a daycare so I can make demands as ridiculous as "her hair better be braided with ribbon by noon" and I'm quite comfortable doing so (er, I don't actually do that.). Last week, one of the caretakers said, "I was letting her play with my hair." I said, "NOPE. She pulls my hair, I don't like it, so hair is off limits." My MIL lets DD play with her hair and I'm still trying to figure out how to tell her nicely to stop encouraging that. (I have knotty curly hair and a really sensitive scalp, ya'll  ;) ). 

If it is really making you uncomfortable and unhappy, then maybe the daycare isn't a bad idea. Just be sure that it is the right decision for you. Until then, it's probably easier to put up with us crazy new parents than it is to try and change it.

My hat is off to you. I know that if/when the time comes, I'll never offer to do anything like you did b/c I'd be afraid of a battle or two. You're doing a wonderful thing, no matter what you decide.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 20, 2011, 09:44:54 am
Wow, She sounds all nice and pleasant to have as a DIL.... lol

I probably shouldn't say this because it is "wrong" but since the little one can't talk yet, I would totally have the tv on lol Just "Don't tell Mommy!" LOL

What about a radio with little kids songs?

Sounds like she will really only be happy spending *shudder* $900!!!!!! A month for Daycare. Holey Moley, That's more than my house payment! And for only 8-10 days a month? Is this daycare Harvard?

But really, unless you want her cut out of your life forever, I'd play by the rules....
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 20, 2011, 09:46:40 am
Tara, no, we exercise absolutely no control over their lives ---- at all.  I told DS that I thought the daycare was silly because a) it was leaving a small baby with strangers, and even in the best of daycares, it's not the same as having one on one care with someone who loves the baby, and b) I thought $900 was a lot of money for 8 days worth of work  . . . BUT we never interfere with them.  I flat told him that they were going to do what they wanted, but I was giving him my opinion.

They were the ones who came to us and said that they had decided not to use the daycare and that DS would be dropping her off at my house so that I could watch her.  It was set from the time baby was born in December until the first of April, when DIL suddenly decided to change everything around.  I realize that some of it is coming from separation anxiety.  I know that she feels if I go down and watch the baby, then she can watch me and control the manner in which I handle the baby, etc., etc.  I also know that EVERY comment that I make will be fodder for some other rant (just like the tv comment).  I don't like being in their house, they have two large dogs that jump all over me and leave big bruises, etc., etc.  It's simply not a comfortable environment for me.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 20, 2011, 09:47:43 am
ST, do they ask you for money?  Just curious

To be honest, this is why I avoid family behaving as work.  No, it's not easier for me to have MIL babysit b/c she's assumes then she has a right to get into finances and other topics I really just don't consider her business. 

In my mind, family is family, work is work.  That's why I don't ask any family to mow the lawn or any other chore either.  Just not my cup of tea.

I have noticed as I've gotten older and hoping to be a mom in the next decade that I'm a lot less willing to do things another way.  When I was younger I might have stewed and resented it, now I would most likely tell you if you were my MIL that we've got it handled, you just enjoy being a grandma.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 20, 2011, 09:53:00 am
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on April 20, 2011, 09:44:54 am
Sounds like she will really only be happy spending *shudder* $900!!!!!! A month for Daycare. Holey Moley, That's more than my house payment! And for only 8-10 days a month? Is this daycare Harvard?


Mine is 1200. Same price if you go half time. Still worth every penny. They don't boast a good Harvard Education, but they are 4 stars on the Keystone Stars List (Pennsylvania Child Education State program), and most daycares around here are 1500/mth, so I'm still getting a bargain.

$900 sounds like a steal to me. I just couldn't bring myself to leave DD with a stranger down the street, and even though my mom has since quit her job and is at home, I'd never go that route. Not worth even one battle about rules/limits/my parenting/stains on DD's clothes.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 20, 2011, 09:55:56 am
Yeah, that's what I was thinking about daycare.  It's been a long time but when DD was a baby it was over a 1000 for part time.  And I remember that every daycare I looked at -- well, there wasn't much difference monetarily between part time and full time. 

My parents had a hard time with accepting that's how daycare is now too.  I remember my dad couldn't figure out why I wasn't saving as much to buy a house and kept hounding me, it just didn't click with him.  If he would bother me now, I'd clearly say he should mind his own business with love lol
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 20, 2011, 10:01:37 am
My mom wasn't happy about the daycare at first. She said the baby wouldn't be a loved, taken care of, etc.

I've had her pick DD up from school a few times, and she's since changed her mind. There was talk of me quitting work a month or two ago (eh...there is still talk, I'm so indecisive about it), and she said, "WAIT? WHAT!? DD MUST be in a daycare. I'm surprised you and your brother turned out half normal since you were home with me all day long."

LOL, not sure how she really meant that...but I'll take even a back-handed compliment when I get one. Still waiting for her to butt out. There really is no right way. To each their own.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Scoop on April 20, 2011, 10:04:24 am
ST - there has to be a happy medium here.  Have you asked them WHY they want you at their house?  Maybe Baby is getting old enough to need more stimulation and they have an exersaucer for her, and they don't want to ask you to buy one.  Maybe it's just too much for DIL to get Baby ready in the morning, with all the stuff they need to pack.  Maybe DIL misses Baby so very much that she wants Baby close by, so she can have lunch with her.  Maybe they're looking to the future and Baby crawling and they just feel better having her at their (baby-proofed) house.  Maybe they're thinking about all the stuff they'll have to bring to your house when Baby starts eating.

So ... happy medium: Can you ask them if you can go later on?  I'm imagining that DS brings the baby by at 7:30 am, but DIL doesn't start work until 9 am.  Well, then, maybe you could go over at 8:45 am?  So that you're working around DIL's schedule and not DS's.   Can you ask them to lock up the dogs?  If you're getting bruises, that's not right.

If they were prepared to spend $900 a month on daycare, and you talked them out of it, then please KNOW (deep in your heart) that they think they're doing YOU a favour, not the other way around.

And if you decide to opt out, I truly believe that you will be crucified over it.  They will say "See?  We should have just stuck to daycare, they would NOT be allowed to just cancel on us like that!"

Summer's almost here, the drive should be nice (-ish), I would go and be the best Grandma ever, but I would leave a caveat that you will want to renegotiate next winter, or if the gas prices get too high.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 20, 2011, 10:07:45 am
Just out of curiosity...Is this couple one in the same with the couple that hasn't dusted the dustbunnies?

Um, er...I'm thinking asthma, allergies, choking hazards. I'm not sure that I would consider a house like that babyproofed even if the walls were rubber padded and they cut of the electricity.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 20, 2011, 10:34:16 am
Quote from: stilltryen on April 20, 2011, 09:08:53 am
The next thing I know, she's lined up a daycare for $900 a month to watch baby for 2 days a week.  DS said DIL wanted the daycare to watch baby for 2 days a week, I would watch her for 1, and her mom (who has Thursdays off) would watch her for 1 day.  That way baby wouldn't get more attached to me. 


WARNING, WARNING! Seriously, proceed with caution, ST.  I could have delivered dd the moon, but it would never have been enough.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 20, 2011, 10:36:34 am
Rose...you are a trip. You are always making me laugh. (However serious you were just now).
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 20, 2011, 10:39:23 am
Holly, yep - this is the same couple - my house is much cleaner than theirs.  I'm not saying that because I'm all Ms. Housekeeper, but I have the time and I did grow up with Lady Lysol.  Don't have my mom's same standards, by any stretch of the imagination, but also don't have the dust and cobwebs at my house that they have at theirs - so there you have it.  However, in fairness, since they had the baby, they've done much better.  The dust is not quite as thick and cobwebs are down considerably.

Baby is 3 months old - not old enough to have house childproofed or crawl yet. 

I'm not sure I understand the logic that it's better to get baby ready and take her to daycare 2 days a week for $900 a month, and spend an extra 40 minutes commute time, as opposed to getting baby ready and taking her to grandma's for $0 a month and spending an extra 15 minutes commute time.  I gave them the option, they accepted it.  All I need is a diaper bag, if baby needs other stuff, we'll buy it.  We have an extra bedroom we can have just for her, her toys, a crib, etc.  DIL was the one who changed her mind and started to make other demands.  She wouldn't be able to do that with the daycare - and, yet, somehow that logic just escapes her brain.   

I am given a list of "rules," and I always go by them.  If DIL says to wake the baby up at XX time, I do.  If she says to feed baby at XX time, that's exactly what I do.  She's just control crazy.  Here's another example.  Every time they've called and asked us to babysit, we have.  Since DIL has been off for 4 months with the baby, she's called me a few times to come down to their house to watch baby, she's had an appointment or whatever.  I have gone down there willingly and happily, no problem.  One day I was rocking the baby to sleep and she was sleeping in my arms.  She'd been asleep about 5 minutes and I was about to get up from the rocking chair and put her in her crib when DIL got home.  I stayed where I was for a few more minutes chatting with her before I got up.  The next set of rules included, "Don't hold baby in your arms when she's fallen asleep.  Put her in her crib immediately.  Holding her will disrupt her sleeping pattern."  What???  A month later, she's chatting and says, "Yeah, my mom loves to rock the baby to sleep and then sits there and holds her and just watches her sleep.  It's so cute to watch them."  What???  So when I do the exact SAME thing, it disrupts her sleep pattern, but when HER mom does it - it's "cute"???

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 20, 2011, 10:42:54 am
Quote from: Scoop on April 20, 2011, 10:04:24 am

If they were prepared to spend $900 a month on daycare, and you talked them out of it, then please KNOW (deep in your heart) that they think they're doing YOU a favour, not the other way around.

And if you decide to opt out, I truly believe that you will be crucified over it.  They will say "See?  We should have just stuck to daycare, they would NOT be allowed to just cancel on us like that!"


These are really, really good points. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Kennedy on April 20, 2011, 10:44:10 am
Wow!!! I had no idea that Daycare cost that much. I suppose if a Parent has a good/ great paying job that is all okay?
I was curious if you and your DIL had a nice relationship before she had children? A common ground of friendship?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 20, 2011, 10:44:23 am
Quote from: Holly on April 20, 2011, 10:36:34 am
Rose...you are a trip. You are always making me laugh. (However serious you were just now).


I'll put it this way, Holly...Have you rubberized the hinges on your furniture?  That's "hinges," not "handles"...I'd already removed all those.  Seriously, I was asked to do that.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 20, 2011, 10:45:59 am
Wait, now I am confused.  If the baby is 3 months old and Mom has stayed home for 4 months, have you actually done the daycare during the week?  Or has it just been the occasional babysitting when she asks?

I do think it's awfully hard to be a first time parent, they are going to try something, change their mind, try something else, change it again.  I don't think it's really possible to tell a parent to nail something down in writing and they must abide by it. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 20, 2011, 10:46:30 am
Oh, and no, we never ask about their finances and vice versa.  I'm sure they can afford the $900 a month for daycare, that's not the issue.  I just thought they could apply the money somewhere else.  DS still has college loans, they have two new vehicles, etc.  Where they choose to spend their money and on what is their own thing.  We don't pry and, other than the daycare, we have never commented.  We watched the baby the other evening while they went to dinner and the theatre.  DS told me later they dropped about $400 that night, between the dinner, the theatre tickets, after dinner drinks, etc.  My response?  "I'm glad you two had a good time!"

And no, we have never, ever asked them for a dime either. 

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 20, 2011, 10:53:30 am
I have a 10 month old. She's about to walk anyday. The only thing I've done is plug the electric sockets, move the poisonous stuff and childproof the handles she can reach. I'm not going to drive myself or others crazy. She will fall, she will hit her head. She needs to learn to live in a house with dangers (that means the edges of furniture). As a parent, I will actually have to watch her, and use the word "No" consistently. But, people think I'm a helicopter mom b/c I didn't get a walker for her. 

I never heard of rubberized hinges. I wouldn't buy them if I had. I wouldn't expect others to do so, and I'd wager you wouldn't find them in a daycare either. LOL. I'm so sorry, Rose.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 20, 2011, 10:57:19 am
pam1, baby was born in December, I messed up - she's 4 months old.  Sorry, but still not ready to crawl or have house baby proofed.  I have done quite a fair amount of babysitting for them, DIL realized that it was easy to call me and I would readily drop whatever plans I had and go watch the baby.  I have gone to their house half the time and she's dropped her off here the other times.

Also, I'm not at all opposed to daycare.  They have excellent programs and do a lot with kids.  I had to put my youngest son in daycare for 2 years and he enjoyed it.  However, when they're that little, there is considerable research out there that clearly states if you have the option (note, IF you have the option), it's healthier for babies to be with loved ones.  I can say I'm gob-smacked with that baby.  I have a big problem making myself put her down while I do things.  I just want to hold her, stare at her, talk to her, etc.  I love watching her face, I love to see the expressions on her face, I love her smile, she is the light of my life. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 20, 2011, 11:03:17 am
ST,

There is just as much considerable research that clearly states that a baby in daycare that young is just as healthy as a baby at home, even if you have the option. I don't believe either of us are right or wrong on that, we just have our opinions. Your GK will be every bit as wonderful, loved, attached and smart as she is right now, if you decide being a caretaker won't work at this point.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 20, 2011, 11:16:28 am
Holly, yep, I suppose for everything, there is enough evidence to support both sides.  It won't be my decision not to be a caretaker, it will be DIL's decision.  I'm ready, willing and able - but no, I don't think I will cave to her every little rule and demand.  By doing so, I will be jeopardizing our entire future because she will know that whatever she decides, we'll jump through hoops - and trust me, my hubby is already ready to strangle her.

If she decides that because I'm not going to take on the added stress of dealing with their house, their dogs, the commute, etc., when it's clearly easier for DS to spend 12 or so minutes dropping her off here, I can accept that.  However, my thought is that she will be creating a major rift with DS (who is also furious at her for changing her mind) that might not be mended.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 20, 2011, 11:41:09 am
Well, I think a rift between her and your DS will have very little to do with you.

As far as I know, daycares, even the expensive-er ones don't come to your house and pick your child up, and they don't really do in-home service either. So, I'm not really sure what she is trying to accomplish with not wanting to drop the baby off.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 20, 2011, 11:42:52 am
Quote from: stilltryen on April 20, 2011, 10:39:23 am
The next set of rules included, "Don't hold baby in your arms when she's fallen asleep.  Put her in her crib immediately.  Holding her will disrupt her sleeping pattern."  What???  A month later, she's chatting and says, "Yeah, my mom loves to rock the baby to sleep and then sits there and holds her and just watches her sleep.  It's so cute to watch them."  What???  So when I do the exact SAME thing, it disrupts her sleep pattern, but when HER mom does it - it's "cute"???


We should talk, ST...  I was told the same thing, but dd found it cute when dh not only allowed gc to remain sleeping; dh slept, too.  She even marked the occasion with a photo, & shushed me, so as not to wake them.  She doesn't mind df's closeness to gc, only mine.  She'd get upset that gc cried when they'd leave, as though I had some type of hold over him.  I know being a 1st time mom is emotional & how difficult it must be to have to start back to work.  You'd have thought from the way she treated me, I was personally responsible for it.  I walked on egg shells for 2 years & now that she's a SAHM, our gc rarely visit our home.  I think it is the green eyed monster.  I never figured out how to slay him...  Scoop is right.  Be very careful not to upset the apple cart. 

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 20, 2011, 11:54:43 am
Quote from: Holly on April 20, 2011, 10:53:30 am
I have a 10 month old. She's about to walk anyday. The only thing I've done is plug the electric sockets, move the poisonous stuff and childproof the handles she can reach. I'm not going to drive myself or others crazy. She will fall, she will hit her head. She needs to learn to live in a house with dangers (that means the edges of furniture). As a parent, I will actually have to watch her, and use the word "No" consistently. But, people think I'm a helicopter mom b/c I didn't get a walker for her. 

I never heard of rubberized hinges. I wouldn't buy them if I had. I wouldn't expect others to do so, and I'd wager you wouldn't find them in a daycare either. LOL. I'm so sorry, Rose.


No, you're not a helicopter mom, Holly.  Those are moms who stand over dc 24/7.  As for the rubberized hinges, those are custom built.  I'm doing better; I can laugh about it now.   ;D ;D   You dil's have restored my faith in young people!  Thank you SOOO much!


Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 20, 2011, 11:59:09 am
Quote from: Holly on April 20, 2011, 11:41:09 am
Well, I think a rift between her and your DS will have very little to do with you.

As far as I know, daycares, even the expensive-er ones don't come to your house and pick your child up, and they don't really do in-home service either. So, I'm not really sure what she is trying to accomplish with not wanting to drop the baby off.


Just trying to exert control.  When she was pregnant, she decided that when she went into labor she didn't want anyone in the delivery room (we had ABSOLUTELY no intention of ever being in the delivery room), she didn't want anyone in the waiting room, etc.  She told DS she didn't even want him to call and let anyone know they were going to the hospital!!  DS refused, told her she was being totally out of control.  He was going to call.  Her parents ended up in the delivery room, they were at the hospital the whole time, etc.  DIL got over it.  We, of course, were allowed to visit and see the baby for about an hour, then were told she was too tired and could we leave, please, so she could get some rest.  Her parents stayed in the room and at the hospital as we left.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 20, 2011, 12:04:09 pm
If I may, if this is the case...why be the caretaker at all? If she's a control freak, you're putting yourself in a position to be controlled, even with the best of intentions.

I wouldn't want the headache if I were you. I'd want to see my GK once in awhile, maybe do the once-a-week thing, and that would be that. I wouldn't enjoy that much aggravation.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 20, 2011, 12:52:01 pm
ST, this is not meant in any kind of negative way, just a question and it might help you to figure out if this is something you want to do.  Why do you want to babysit gc?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Nana on April 20, 2011, 01:11:41 pm
Dear ST:

I respect everyone's opinion, really I do.  But....I felt I was reading my story as it was when I had my first gc.  My son wanted both set of gparents to look after Alex on week days (both worked), my dil was reluctant to that.  She obviously wanted her mom to watch over him more days.  I spoke to dil and told her that it didnt matter....that if she wish I could watch over baby just on Fridays, thus leaving the other workdays to her mom.  She accepted immediately.   I had a long list of rules...but there were more rules coming my way as days went by.  She would always look for something to blame me about.  It was exhausting.   The way that dil  has been acting tells me that you will never please her, she will always have something to say.  Now, can you handle that?  I couldnt....it had me depressed and sad all the time.  I was always walking on egg shells and for me it was not worth my effort.  Things changed until I did back off....and decided not to look after the child anymore.

  You can give it a try though.... but remember...you have to be happy with what you are doing.  We are the ones tyying to help..... the favor is for them.   Cost-Benefit....do your numbers. 

I wish you the best of luck...you are an awesome grandmom... how many dils would die for a mil like you.

Love
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 20, 2011, 02:28:44 pm
Thank you Nana!  I had my mom watch my children when they were little and I had to work, we figured she was doing us a favor by watching them and not charging us, so we did whatever she wanted.  We took them to her house and dropped them off.  I don't understand why they would think they're doing US a favor by "allowing" us to watch her.  While I don't work, I do a lot of things and always have a full schedule.  One that, I might add, I'm completely turning around to be able to stay home and watch her.

All I said was, "I'm not working and I'll be happy to watch the baby to save you money on daycare."  I didn't make the schedule up, my only caveat was that I would watch the baby here at my house.  I didn't say anything more until she decided, out of nowhere, that I should drive down there.  As for her rules, quite honestly, I will deal with the rules to the extent they're sensible.  I will absolutely put the baby down for her nap and feed her according to the schedule.  However, hubby starts work at 5 in the morning, gets home about 1:30, watches tv for a bit, then goes in to take a nap.  I will not tell him he can't watch tv for an hour because we're not "allowed" to even have the tv on.  That's ridiculous.  I'm not going to park her in front of the tv at any time, I can play with her in another part of the house - but no, that's a stupid rule.  I'm not going to confront her on that, I'm simply going to ignore it.  If another rule is that I need to wear high heels and pearls while I watch her, that rule is going to be broken as well. 

I am doing this because I love that baby more than words can ever say.  I'm doing this to try and help them out.  We've always tried to help our boys in any way we can, college, etc.  That's never going to change, but if, at any time, they don't want that help, if she continues to get more and more outrageous, if I start being depressed and sad over the whole issue, I'm not going to do it anymore.  Life is too short to deal with crap like that.  My hope is that once we start this whole thing, it will get easier for her and she'll realize that she made a big hubbub over nothing.  I'm hoping that she'll get back to work, get back in the groove of things, it will work out for her, etc.   She is clearly aware that we are completely besotted with that child and would never do anything to hurt her.  If having her way is more important to her than having someone clearly willing to love and care for her child, what can I say? 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Tara on April 20, 2011, 02:46:22 pm
ST

Sounds like you have clarity about how to approach this and what you want to do. 
I appreciate your devotion to your gc. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Nana on April 20, 2011, 03:19:53 pm
ST

Good.  The high heels and pearls is hilarious... my God... Of course, I see that she feels you may fall down or that baby grabs the pearls and puts them in his/her mouth.  Wow...

Yes ST...you reasons for taking all this are valid.....we all know how much we can take and still keep or integrity.  I agree we love our gc more than words can tell.  I sometimes tell my husband that I love them so much that it hurts.   I was asked not to wear perfume lol?  I understood that they did not like the baby smelling like grandma lol.
I wish you the best of luck.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 20, 2011, 05:25:50 pm
Nana..  I think stilltryen was saying IF they said she had to wear pearls.. lol..  I'd be up the creek if that type of request was made of me.. I have no pearls :)  and my feet are to wide for heels.

Is it possible that you were asked not to wear perfume for the reason of possible allergies?  I know that perfume will give me headaches.. lol I try to use good smellin deodorant
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 20, 2011, 05:31:46 pm
Full disclosure: I asked daycare if they wear perfumes around the babies. I didn't want her smelling like anyone but herself when I came to get her. I live for that scent. They, fortunately, told me no. They said it had something to do with allergies, really, but that it wasn't the first request they received for *selfish* reasons.

Of course at the moment she smells like green beans and applesauce. Bath time will fix that.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 20, 2011, 05:46:43 pm
ST, I wish the very best for you, as well as ds, dil, but most especially for your gd.  She's the real winner to have you & gpa in her life. 

Rose
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 20, 2011, 06:05:32 pm
Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond.  I don't get on here too often, but I can always count on rational and well thought out responses.  You all make me stop and think and consider more points and I appreciate it.

Laurie, good question about the perfume/allergies.  However, a lot of it is in the delivery.  If my DIL demanded that I not wear any perfume, I'd probably douse twice of it on at this point.  If she came to me and explained that she'd noticed the baby was fussing, crying and being irritable and had taken her to the doctor, where they'd found that she was allergic to perfumes, etc., so could I please make sure not to wear any - well, heck yeah!  I would absolutely not wear any.  Regrettably my DIL is the type to simply demand that we adhere to her "rules," and a lot of them are simply subjective.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Tara on April 20, 2011, 06:18:39 pm
I don't know if this is helpful info but at the meditation center I go to they request that people don't wear scents and also
in some workplaces also these days its requested.  I think the chemicals in perfume can affect the immune system in some
people and as mentioned, can  stir up allergies in others. 

I agree ST,  I'm the kind of person that reacts better when things are presented to me in a gracious and friendly way.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 20, 2011, 06:21:31 pm
Tara,

That reminds me, years ago, at the credit union,  we did have a girl get fired for creating a hostile work environment. What was she doing? Wearing Tommy Girl. It aggravated the asthma of the woman working next to her. She refused to take it off. The woman was almost hospitalized. It was very scary and kind of silly.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Tara on April 20, 2011, 06:26:18 pm
Isn't that amazing!

I had a client when I was a counselor at UC Berkeley who got very ill also from someones perfume at work.  Her colleagues were annoyed with her for asking them to stop wearing scents, eventually she had to move to a different office. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: FAFE on April 20, 2011, 06:35:11 pm
When my daughter went back to work after her maternity leave I offered to keep the baby until the first of the year.  They decided to put her in daycare, so that was fine.  Whenever we do keep her, she whips our butts.  We love keeping her and have been asked to come and get her when both of her parents had a virus.  She just turned 6 months old and last Sunday she came over and actually recognized us and her toys that she has here.  She loves the "picture box" as her parents call it.  Fortunately they are both pretty layed back parents and know that I'm a little whacky and are fine with that.  I try not to give too much advice - only when asked,  etc.  I'm not the best Fafe, but I'm sure having fun trying to be. 

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 20, 2011, 06:39:44 pm
Quote from: Tara on April 20, 2011, 06:26:18 pm
Isn't that amazing!

I had a client when I was a counselor at UC Berkeley who got very ill also from someones perfume at work.  Her colleagues were annoyed with her for asking them to stop wearing scents, eventually she had to move to a different office.


NOT, mind you, that I'm suggesting in any manner whatsoever, that this is similar - but it does remind me of another point.  A gal I worked with would claim to be allergic to everything.  She always demanded this and that and it was hello annoying.  I think she just got off on being the center of attention.  I couldn't stand to be around her the minute I saw her using the bathroom and waltzing out.  When I asked her about why she didn't wash her hands, she said that she was "allergic" to the soap there.  I immediately fired back that, were I allergic to the soap there, I would bring my own - but that NOT washing was never an option for me. 

Another time she had mentioned that she was "allergic" to onions.  A couple of weeks later, we were all at a department lunch and she ordered something and had them add "extra onions."  I later made the comment that I thought she was allergic to onions.  She looked like a deer in headlights, then said, "Oh, uh, just fresh onions, not onions cooked in food."  Righttttttttt!  What a tool.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pen on April 20, 2011, 06:41:38 pm
ST, I hope everything works out. Your DIL sounds like a handful and a half. The things you both have in common are love for the child and presumably the child's dad. For those reasons you will need to figure out how you can compromise and not feel as though you are being treated unfairly or taken advantage of. Best wishes!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 20, 2011, 06:43:04 pm
Ohhh, I know exactly what you're talking about ST.  My SIL does that too and the deer in the headlights when you catch her.  For the first year I met her she kept up with the comments to me that she was allergic to my perfume (I don't wear any) so I changed my deodorant.  Then it was my shampoo.  I just gave up.  Xmas time someone gave her lavendar soap/lotion set and she started rubbing on her and raving how beautiful the smell....So I asked I thought you were allergic to lavendar?  Oh no, not this kind of lavendar.  Ugh whatever, I think she just didn't want me to smell like a lady
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Tara on April 20, 2011, 07:17:38 pm
 8) 8)  I love this forum. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 21, 2011, 07:48:55 am
ST,

I'm sorry your DIL is being difficult.  She does sound very controlling, though I have to admit I cannot even pretend to understand what it is like to have your first baby and have to leave him/her with someone else while I go to work.  I might have problems "letting go" when the time comes as well- but I know I will be going the daycare route just so there aren't any problems and I always feel like doing business with a legit business creates more accountability on all sides, so it makes me more comfortable.  I will know they have experience and if I tell them I want things done a certain way, I will know that they won't get their feelings hurt because there will always be another mom that will be worse than me. :)

For what it's worth, I completely understand your frustration with them feeling like they're doing you a favor- but I think I understand where that came into play for you.  I think when DS told you their plan, you "criticized" it, calling it silly and suggesting an unsolicited idea of a "better" way of doing it.  Of course you did add the caveat that they can do what they want- but you made it clear what you thought of it regardless.  I think your DIL, rightly or wrongly, probably took that to mean you would prefer it be a different way.  But I mean...at least she made the effort to please you, you know?  If it was my MIL, I wouldn't have completely changed my plans with MY child just because she thought it was "silly," so I think that's at least saying something.  But anyway, I think that's where the "doing you a favor" came into play.  You may have come off as criticizing them or belittling their idea and they figured ok, if you want to watch GK so much, we'll let you- but you have to play by our rules since we are accommodating you.  (some of the rules do sound a bit overboard, but I'm just trying to be general here)

Sorry you're dealing with this, I can imagine the frustration.

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 21, 2011, 08:34:57 am
ST,

For what it's worth, during the course of the 2 yrs I kept gs, he & we (dh & I) bonded.  I don't believe anything dd does will ever break that bond.  Gs' memory of his time here is solid as a rock.  Our gs made up for all the misery dd dished.  Keep in mind that it's your gd who will truly benefit from the experience.   In time, hopefully, dil will relax & not be so controlling.  When my dd faced issues as a new mom, people came out of the woodwork offering advice.  I didn't, unless asked for it.  I reassured her that no one knows a baby more than its' mother.  It's true...  She knew I was a good mom; but it also made her more insecure, as though gs might love me more.  I didn't do anything wrong to deserve the distance she's put between us & gc.   At 18 mos, ygs doesn't know we're his gp's.  We're just people who get together for a meal every couple of months, if that.  But ogs jumps for joy each time he sees us.  You almost have to peel him off the ceiling.  : )  When I get the opportunity to speak with him on the phone, he puts me on speaker phone & takes me all over the house.  Sometimes I ride in the back of his wagon, I wait on the counter while he goes potty, & sometimes he "reads" me stories.   Pray that you & dil grow closer, and yes, be thankful they're doing you the "favor" of allowing you to babysit.  As far as being a doormat, I'd die for my gc, so doormat I was...  Whenever dd was being completely irrational; she'd threaten to take gs elsewhere.  I would calmly tell her, "He's your child, so it's your prerogative."  She never did follow through on her threats.  I got cut off when she became a SAHM.  It hurts greatly, but I carry gs in my heart, knowing that nothing will break that bond.  Since gs couldn't sit in front of the TV, I sat him in front of the computer & we'd watch videos with dc's songs, like "10 little monkeys," "rain, rain, go away," etc.  I used to sing them to him as he went to sleep.  I put them on to CD's so he could listen to them in the car.  For his last b-day, we gave him an MP-3 player with those songs included, among others.  Reinforce your gd's memory of her time with you, she won't forget it... 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 21, 2011, 08:47:07 am
overwhelmed123, yeah, I can see where someone might think that - but you don't know my DIL.  If she decides on a course of action and is determined to do it, a hurricane could come through and she'd still do it.  I think the reason she changed her mind about the daycare is that DS convinced her that they could do a couple of other things with the money.  I also know that her mom was thrilled about me watching the baby to save them the money as well.  I think the $$$$ logic won her over more so than anything else.

As for my perceived "criticism," trust me, nothing - and I do mean NOTHING - that I could ever say or do would faze her.  It's all about her, she's very, very, very self-centered and narcissistic.  I scrapbook and one day she came over and I happened to be working on pages for the baby.  Now, me, if anyone has a picture of my children, I'm going to nab them and look at them because, of course, my children are fabulous and wonderful.  (Okay, humor me.)  I told her I was working on the baby's book while she walked right by the table and didn't even glance down.  She never bothered to look at the wedding scrapbook I did for them either.  Why?  Because she's not into scrapbooking, therefore it's irrelevant to her. 

On the other hand, she knits.  She knit this (bleep, bleep, bleep) ugly thing she calls a blanket for the baby.  I was very kind and said, "Oh, that's very nice.  You do really good work."  (Yes, I gagged, but my momma taught me manners and I'm going to use them.)  She won't even do that.  I gave her baby blankets that DH's mom made for DS when he was born.  She's never once used them for the baby.  Baby just always has that hideous knitted thing wrapped around her.  Now DH's mom passed away a year after DS was born, so they mean a LOT to me, but she just stashed them in the closet.  Now if this were me, and my MIL had given me baby blankets and I didn't really like them, I would wrap the baby in the baby blanket when I would go over to my MIL's house to make her happy, but never use them anywhere else.  She has no regard for anyone's feelings, so she's not going to do that.  (Note, those blankets were beautiful.  They were hand-sewn and exquisite.)

Good perspective, just not it for this gal. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 21, 2011, 08:53:56 am
Quote from: stilltryen on April 21, 2011, 08:47:07 am
On the other hand, she knits.  She knit this (bleep, bleep, bleep) ugly thing she calls a blanket for the baby.  I was very kind and said, "Oh, that's very nice.  You do really good work."  (Yes, I gagged, but my momma taught me manners and I'm going to use them.)  She won't even do that.  I gave her baby blankets that DH's mom made for DS when he was born.  She's never once used them for the baby.  Baby just always has that hideous knitted thing wrapped around her.  Now DH's mom passed away a year after DS was born, so they mean a LOT to me, but she just stashed them in the closet.  Now if this were me, and my MIL had given me baby blankets and I didn't really like them, I would wrap the baby in the baby blanket when I would go over to my MIL's house to make her happy, but never use them anywhere else.  She has no regard for anyone's feelings, so she's not going to do that.  (Note, those blankets were beautiful.  They were hand-sewn and exquisite.)


I can understand her wanting to use the blanket that she made for her child. It is a special thing. With your MIL's blankets, she might be afraid they will get damaged since they obviously have a lot of sentimental value. Or she just might want "new" things for her "new" baby?

If they meant so much to you, why did you give them to her?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 21, 2011, 08:56:42 am
Rose, she's mandated that I can't have the baby watch tv or even have it on as background.  What's truly ironic is that when the boys were growing up, we were the ONLY family who didn't have cable.  We moved into a new house in a new neighborhood and called the cable company.  They told us that they weren't going to be in our neighborhood for at least a year.  So we paid $$$ and put up an antenna.  A month later, the cable company came by.  DH was livid and said, "Nope, don't want you now."  Thus our children grew up with no Beavis and Butthead or South Park or any of the "cool" shows.  They basically got ABC, NBC and CBS, and a couple of other channels.  To this day neither of them watch tv, except for a football game or a special show.  If I didn't raise my own children, over whom I had complete control of, in front of the television set - why would she think that I'd ever park my grandchild, whom I don't get to see that often, in front of it? 

They don't think things through, I guess.  I'm not opposed to the rule about not letting her watch tv, but no way I'm shutting it off if I'm in another part of the house and hubby is watching it.  I'm just not telling her that.   :P
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Scoop on April 21, 2011, 09:06:21 am
ST - One of my favourite sayings is "If you don't like something, change it.  If you can't change it, change the way you think about it."  And I think in this case, you have to change the way you think about DIL's 'different' ideas.  Because you come across to me (and likely to her too) that you think her way is WRONG, when really it's just different.

She's not wrong to like her (bleep, bleep, bleep) ugly blanket, she made it, she's proud of it, she knows how much love went into it.  She doesn't have the same connection to the GMIL blankets.  And, she has different taste than you.  It's just different, not wrong.

She doesn't know how you raised DS.  She wasn't there.  And even DS, who WAS there, wasn't there in the capacity of "parent", so his memory of it can only be seen through the eyes of a child.

I also wish that you would cut DS and DIL some slack in terms of their parenting choices, let them find their own way.  They're new at this.  And, like teenagers who are first learning independence they're taking a stand on their decisions.

It's just that I can see this situation going down the wrong path so easily and I don't want that for you.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 21, 2011, 09:11:25 am
Quote from: stilltryen on April 21, 2011, 08:47:07 am
As for my perceived "criticism," trust me, nothing - and I do mean NOTHING - that I could ever say or do would faze her.  It's all about her, she's very, very, very self-centered and narcissistic. 


My MIL has said things probably rather nonchalantly that I perceive as criticism. Money and daycare were two good examples of that. I think you've mentioned several times on here that you don't thing daycare is a good idea and it's a lot of money. This was something she initially wanted to do with her child...are you sure she didn't pick up on your opinion of her plans somehow?

With MIL, I dug my heels in further, and was dismissive of her opinion. She said it several times, and each time I became more attached to the idea of daycare, and "doing things my way."

Her criticism/opinion still fazed me...it always fazes me. It made me more obstinate than I normally would be. Just b/c I didn't cry or try to argue with her or persuade her to my view doen't mean I wasn't fazed.  I realize that it is my reaction to the action that needs working on, but my MIL bases her opinion of me on these reactions...and has at times called me self-centered and narcisstic.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 21, 2011, 09:13:24 am
"I can understand her wanting to use the blanket that she made for her child. It is a special thing."
I can understand that as well, I have no issue with her using that blanket.  All I'm suggesting is that she think of someone else for a change with her attitude.  When someone gave me an outfit for my baby that I thought was horrid, I put it on my child, I took a photo, and sent the photo of the baby wearing it with a thank you card.  It's called "manners."  Then I would put it away somewhere never to be seen again until the new garage sale.

"With your MIL's blankets, she might be afraid they will get damaged since they obviously have a lot of sentimental value. Or she just might want "new" things for her "new" baby?"
Sure, that's why she has things on the baby from when SHE was a child.  Evidently the things from her childhood have no sentimental value and she's fine using them, but things from DS's childhood are too fragile?  Hahaha, nope.  Once again, with this one, DS and family are irrelevant.  Since DS was a boy, I couldn't very well give her boy clothes for my granddaughter to wear.  Thus the blankets were the ONLY things I could pass on.  I'm not asking that she have the baby in the blankets ALL the time, but seriously, you think it's too much to ask that she put the baby in at least ONE of the blankets when she brings the baby over here?  Really?  Once?  Maybe you're right, but consideration of others' feelings is totally ingrained in me.  I would never, ever have been that rude to my MIL. 

"If they meant so much to you, why did you give them to her?"
My MIL made them for DS.  Two of them are yellow and white.  Because we didn't know what we were having, and she knew we wanted a girl, she also made one pink with flowers.  The pink one (because we had two boys) was put away new and was never used.  Hubby's mom passed away when DS was 3.  I passed them on to DS and DIL because it was part of the family.  It was the only thing DS had from his other grandmother, as he grew up without paternal grandparents.  Had I known she was going to stash them in the closet, I'm sure I would have reconsidered.  I (regrettably) thought that motherhood would change her and perhaps steer her to be a bit more thoughful towards others.  My mistake.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 21, 2011, 09:16:45 am
If the handmade blankets are exquisite, perhaps she'd prefer to keep them that way and save them. I saved my blankets that I received from my mother not for DD, but for DD's children, if the time comes. I appreciated them more as heirlooms and story telling purposes, not so my baby could puke and drool over them.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 21, 2011, 09:17:58 am
I think you would be wise to let go of the anger associated with the blankets. Your DIL probably doesn't know that it is offending you in this way. I know I wouldn't think of it as offensive.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 21, 2011, 09:20:42 am
Quote from: stilltryen on April 21, 2011, 09:13:24 amI (regrettably) thought that motherhood would change her and perhaps steer her to be a bit more thoughful towards others.  My mistake.


Motherhood doesn't change everyone. You also mentioned you hope she changes when she goes back to work. Since motherhood didn't change her, do you think work will? She has demonstrated on several occasions that she is not the person you would like her to be, despite life-altering events. I think you need to accept her for her: crazy rules, ugly blankets and all. It would be easier for you to do that, than it would to just expect that events are going to change her.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 21, 2011, 09:22:36 am
And, I didn't mean to write "easier FOR you"...I meant "easier ON you."
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 21, 2011, 09:39:30 am
Quote from: Scoop on April 21, 2011, 09:06:21 am
ST - One of my favourite sayings is "If you don't like something, change it.  If you can't change it, change the way you think about it."  And I think in this case, you have to change the way you think about DIL's 'different' ideas.  Because you come across to me (and likely to her too) that you think her way is WRONG, when really it's just different.

She's not wrong to like her (bleep, bleep, bleep) ugly blanket, she made it, she's proud of it, she knows how much love went into it.  She doesn't have the same connection to the GMIL blankets.  And, she has different taste than you.  It's just different, not wrong.

She doesn't know how you raised DS.  She wasn't there.  And even DS, who WAS there, wasn't there in the capacity of "parent", so his memory of it can only be seen through the eyes of a child.

I also wish that you would cut DS and DIL some slack in terms of their parenting choices, let them find their own way.  They're new at this.  And, like teenagers who are first learning independence they're taking a stand on their decisions.

It's just that I can see this situation going down the wrong path so easily and I don't want that for you.


I understand about the blanket.  You missed the context in which I brought it up.  I didn't like it, but I wasn't rude to ignore it or pretend that she wasn't putting in the knitting work.  I told her it was nice and she did good work.  That was the point to that.  And of course, she has an idea of how I raised DS, she married him.  Now if he parked himself in front of the television set every night, that might be an indication of how he was brought up.  If he hit her, or drank, or washed his hair ten times a day, or couldn't keep a job, or anything - that might (or might not) be an indication of his background.  Her inability to see outside her own little self-centered world is a clear indication (to me, anyway) of how SHE was raised.

Last, but not least, I rant here.  I don't rant to my son and I certainly say absolutely nothing to her.  Actually I've learned to stay with the weather or some other totally benign subject with her.  If you saw another post, you'll have read that one of the "rules" she had when she got pregnant was that we were not allowed to purchase anything for the baby unless we cleared it through her first.  Some of that made sense.  She was going to research which car seat was the best, etc.  One day I asked her if we could get some cotton sheets for the baby's crib.  This totally innocent question provoked a nasty retort.  Never brought up the subject of the baby or items for the baby again.  Two months later she's complaining that I never say anything about the baby.  Sigh.......

So yeah, when I post my complaints here - it's to get it off my chest.  It's so that I won't say a word to them.  As for parenting choices, we don't see them that often.  Remember her parents are relevant, we're not.  Even if I were to totally lose my head and make a suggestion to her, she would tell me it was stupid.  Baby was born a week before Christmas.  We were chatting about how so many children born near Christmas say they got "birthday gipped" by Christmas.  I did lose my head that day and made a suggestion about possibly having a birthday party in July to ease the pressure around Christmas.  She glared at me and told me that she was having a birthday party every year.  Okay, fine.  It's your baby, your decision, your party -whatever.  Two months later, DS & DIL are having dinner at her parents' home.  Same subject came up, her mom made the same suggestion.  This time DIL thought it was an absolutely fabulous idea.  DS wryly made the comment, "That's what my mom suggested a couple of months ago."
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 21, 2011, 09:46:04 am
Quote from: Holly on April 21, 2011, 09:16:45 am
If the handmade blankets are exquisite, perhaps she'd prefer to keep them that way and save them. I saved my blankets that I received from my mother not for DD, but for DD's children, if the time comes. I appreciated them more as heirlooms and story telling purposes, not so my baby could puke and drool over them.


You may be right.  She does put the baby in things her mother gave her that have been handed down.  I consider the blankets to be used.  In my opinion, what is the purpose of getting beautiful clothes and blankets for the baby if you're simply going to put them away?  They lose their meaning then.  I used them every day, washed them every other day.  Babies grow up too fast and you lose that window of opportunity to surround them with something that their grandmother made with her hands especially for that baby.  However, I respect the fact that everyone has a different opinion on the subject.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 21, 2011, 09:58:09 am
I couldn't think of putting DD in the special things made for me when I was a baby, when they were delicate, beautiful and might be wrecked.

Time went by, and I actually had one blanket framed to hang in DD's room. Heirloom in tact, visible to everyone and something to talk about. I also did use one blanket for very special occasions, not every day. My step grandmother had made it before  she passed. I believe she stayed alive to finish it. That too, has become an heirloom.

So, just because they aren't in use doesn't mean they've lost their meaning or value. I might argue their limited use speaks of how much they mean to me, and how much I hope they mean to DD.

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 21, 2011, 10:00:27 am
Quote from: stilltryen on April 21, 2011, 08:56:42 am
Rose, she's mandated that I can't have the baby watch tv or even have it on as background. 


You know what happens to people who say "always" & "never."  She'll lighten up about the TV, but believe me, it won't bring you much comfort.  You'll be too busy contending with the next new mandate.  : )  Find the humor in it, ST. 

I will say though, we've come a long, long way from the days when my dm kept her gc.  That was back in the day when experience meant something.  I wish I could have been closer to gp's...
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 21, 2011, 10:02:56 am
"You'll be too busy contending with the next new mandate.  : )" - Oh Rose, you are so right.  A month from now, I'll have all new rules.  Yippy.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 21, 2011, 10:04:19 am
I also learned the hard way that  my MIL doesn't value handmade things. I was extremely offended by this. As time went on, I've learned to let it go. It is okay that it isn't as important to her as it is to me. And, it saves me the trouble of finishing the quilt I was working on for her. It is now a gift to my dad, who drools over my sewing projects in awe.

I made a quilt for SIL, and she said, "Another one? Ugh, everyone is making me one of these."

Sometimes, things just are not appreciated, although we might like them to be. I could get really worked up over all of that, but it's not worth it for my sanity. I owe it to myself to make it as unimportant as others have made me feel at times.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 21, 2011, 10:24:56 am
Holly, where the bleep were you when my son was looking?  Haha, look there are some great DILs, there are some great MILs, they're just now always matched.  It's nice to have this forum to come and scream, beat your chest, etc.  That way when I face my DS and DIL, I feel ever so much better and much more calm about things.

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 21, 2011, 10:30:14 am
I don't know...probably off joining the military to snag myself a decent man.  ;)

Just kidding. I am not one of "those."

I sure do hope my dad likes that his queen size bed will be covered in a king size quilt drenched in country pinks and flowers.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 21, 2011, 11:01:23 am
See, I'm on the other end of the homemade spectrum, it's not that I don't appreciate it -- I just don't like other people deciding for me what I should find sentimental.  And I like to throw everything away or give away once they run out of their usefulness for me. 

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 21, 2011, 11:46:20 am
I am with you, Pam, in fact it's funny- my friend was over just yesterday walking around my house and she said, "You're like me, I can tell you really don't like clutter."  Because my house just doesn't have a bunch of "stuff" in it.  I have pictures up here and there but not all over the walls.  I have decor but it's very minimal.  I am so anti "stuff' it's crazy.  My ILs would probably say those kinds of things about me- that I'm rude for not displaying the stuff they give me, but to me, it's ugly and I don't like it.  A lot of it has gone to Goodwill.  I don't think that's fair to judge me because I'm not in the habit of displaying the stuff they like or have given to me just to appease them.  Quite honestly, I don't want to encourage the habit of them giving me jewelry or random pillowcases or any of the other stuff they give me because I don't want any more crap in my house that I have to sort through to give away. 

ST- maybe your DIL doesn't like them, not her style or whatever, and feels like if she doesn't proudly display them in your face, you won't offer up anymore that she'll have to put away.  She wouldn't want to purposely hurt your feelings by saying, "I don't like these and I don't want to do anything with them, can you please stop giving them to me?"  I don't think that really has anything to do with "manners."  I'm always in the habit of using good manners, but I don't want to encourage something that I don't like.  I say "thank you" (very sincerely I might add) and "oh, how generous" or "you didn't have to do that!" quite frequently, but now I'm expected to proudly display all this stuff too?  That's a lot of unspoken strings!  Try to let go of some of your expectations (I think that's a good lesson for all of us) and I think you will be much less resentful.  JMHO of course!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 21, 2011, 11:51:54 am
Oh, I'm definitely a minimalist...but there are a precious few things I'm not willing to part with. Plus, the handmade stuff seems so rare nowadays anyway. I actually only got two handmade blankets for DD.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 21, 2011, 11:53:00 am
...and I made one of them. LOL.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 21, 2011, 11:59:07 am
Holly, that's cool that you can make that stuff.  It's one of my own going hobbies I've been trying to teach myself for oh, maybe 5 years now lol.  It always sounds like a good idea but I just don't have the patience

OW, do you like the designer Jeff Lewis?  His show is on Bravo.  I love his taste. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: lancaster lady on April 21, 2011, 12:31:22 pm
Stilltryin :
You are the MIL ....full stop .
I was told I shouldn't expect the same relationship as with her DM .
I made two blankets for my Gd , one crochet , one knitted ....they were eventually used after baby was 6 months old
as we had a very cold winter . I can't really say too much now as my F/DIL and I do get on , she even visits me now
alone with my GD who is now 14 months . I think she now realises what a handful a toddler is and when she is here
she at least gets a break .
I think most new GP and Moms go through a lot of teething problems ( ;D) , my doc blames my recent heart problems
on the stress between my DIL and myself after she was born , and no I didn't tell her this , now we are best buddies  :)
I'm sure as the baby gets older things will ease . .My GD is now into everything , I haven't changed anything in my house
how else will they learn right from wrong .
I wasn't allowed to look after my GD until she was a year old ....so maybe even with all the rules , you are fortunate to be
trusted for even a day ....

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 21, 2011, 12:52:27 pm
One day, a friend said to me, in describing someone else..."She's the kind that doesn't have anything she wouldn't sell." And I said..."Oh? What's wrong with that!"  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 21, 2011, 12:55:04 pm
I don't see a whole lot wrong with that. Things are just that: things. I've been parting with more and more as time goes on. Memory really is incredible.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 21, 2011, 12:56:14 pm
Quote from: luise.volta on April 21, 2011, 12:52:27 pm
One day, a friend said to me, in describing someone else..."She's the kind that doesn't have anything she wouldn't sell." And I said..."Oh? What's wrong with that!"  ;D ;D ;D


Oh well...  lol
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 21, 2011, 01:40:33 pm
"ST- maybe your DIL doesn't like them, not her style or whatever, and feels like if she doesn't proudly display them in your face, you won't offer up anymore that she'll have to put away." - Overwhelmed, not asking her to display them.  I kept them in the closet myself. 

This is my upbringing.  Let's say that you give me an outfit for my baby.  I think it's hideous, but I would thank you.  I would have dressed my baby in your outfit, taken a photo, then sent the photo of the baby with a thank you card that said, "Baby looks so cute in the outfit you gave us.  Thank you again for being so kind."  Then I would put your outfit away in the drawer, never to be seen until the next garage sale.

Yes, I get it.  She was not brought up in that manner - that's why I complain here.  I'm not sure why she couldn't wrap gd in the blanket once when they were coming over.  We don't see them that often and baby will grow out of it soon.  But she doesn't, there's nothing I can do and no, I've never, ever, ever said one word to them about it.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 21, 2011, 02:15:23 pm
I know and I'm not criticizing you at all, just trying to help you be open to the point of view that just because she was not "raised that way," doesn't mean it's "wrong" or "rude."  Ya know?  If generations never evolved at all and did everything JUST like the generation before them...well my gosh, we'd still be wearing leaves for clothes and huddled around campfires!  :)
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 21, 2011, 02:17:05 pm
And I do have to say you sound like a wonderfully appreciative person!  That is a very high standard you have given yourself- to thank people in so many ways, not everyone can live up to that!! :)

And Pam, no I haven't seen him- I must check the show out!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pooh on April 21, 2011, 03:47:25 pm
Ha ha...I'm the sentimental old fool.  I don't like clutter...but I do like me some sentimental family heirlooms.  And if you make me something homemade...you just won my heart.   ;D
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sassy on April 21, 2011, 04:58:42 pm
Hello still tryen.  If I am keeping up and understand correctly, the daycare-while-DIL-works arrangement hasn't started yet, but will very soon.   Already, there's an issue that hasn't been resolved yet: Namely, DIL made a change to the prior agreement,  that she now expects you to go to her home, instead of GD coming to yours.

QuoteHowever, a lot of it is in the delivery.  If my DIL demanded that I not wear any perfume, I'd probably douse twice of it on at this point.  If she came to me and explained that she'd noticed the baby was fussing, crying and being irritable and had taken her to the doctor, where they'd found that she was allergic to perfumes, etc., so could I please make sure not to wear any - well, heck yeah!  I would absolutely not wear any.  Regrettably my DIL is the type to simply demand that we adhere to her "rules," and a lot of them are simply subjective.


I offer this from a place of love.  If you (like most folks) respond when treated with respect, and you know DIL demands, I don't think this arrangement is a good idea for you.  My fear for you is by mixing love and work, there will be conflict that could end badly for you.  When I read the paragraph I quoted above, I saw there is a lot of risk you are taking, and not much DIL is taking.

Because when DIL, as a child's mother who expects her child to be cared for a certain way, makes a rude demand you consider subjective, and you ignore it, when DIL finds out (she will find out, sooner or later, that her rules aren't being followed) you will be the one to pay the costliest price. 

I don't know if your DIL is the type to just get huffy when she's angry.  From what I'm reading here, it seems possible she's the type who will say something like "You disobeyed my command, I cannopt trust you, now you shall never be left alone with my daughter again" and - what's worse - act on it. 

I wrote today just to share that I fear you may be stepping into what could be a real mess.  If I were in your shoes, as adorable as a newborn infant is (and smells!) I don't think I'd want to risk having such a DAILY ability to ignite such ire in a new mother who's nervous, testing her maternal powers, and prone to dictatorship.  I don't think you'll be able to make her happy, no matter how great a care taker you are for her daughter.  If DIL is very unhappy, (evem for reasons mainly unrelated to you) her response towards you is likely to be disproportionate to the "crime" (when having a tv on in another room is a crime in her book, sheesh).

My hope is the place of babysitting issue, is resolved by her finding other regular child care in her home, just as she wishes.  And you get to enjoy your granddaughter in visits, and babysit her as fill-in.  But 3 days a week, that could easily place you too squarely sitting in the center of her "target."

Congratulations on your new granddaughter, and good luck whatever you decide.



Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pooh on April 21, 2011, 05:41:23 pm
Great, great, great advice Sassy.  And great to see you too!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Tara on April 21, 2011, 09:31:06 pm
Yes Sassy,  nice to meet you, and excellent perspective.  There seems like theres alot at stake here.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 21, 2011, 11:35:49 pm
Thanks Sassy for your input.  I agree, I know that I'll be walking on eggshells - and have already discussed this with DS.  I think I'll discuss this directly with her and ask her.  She has made several "rules" and "demands" that she's had to walk back - and to be fair, she's realized her mistake.  However, none of these have involved me, so not sure how hubby and I would be affected.  An example of this was when she decided nobody, but nobody, would be in the delivery room with her and DS.  We laughed at that "rule," told DS in no uncertain terms that a) we never planned on being there with her; b) she could make a rule for us to be there, we would not show up; and c) what was she thinking, duh!!!!  But guess who did end up in the delivery room with her?  Yep, her parents.  We didn't care one way or the other, but DS was laughing, and rubbed it in big time, saying, "Hmmm, guess your rule got overruled!!"  She had to admit that, in the end, she was very happy her mom was there. 

Another rule?  Absolutely no disposable diapers were ever going to touch the bottom of that baby.  I suggested that she might think of getting disposables for when they went out somewhere.  She nearly ripped my head off for even suggesting such a thing.  No, no, and no - absolutely not!  Just cloth diapers, and she ordered some fancy dancy super duper wonderful cloth diapers.  She has a whole drawerful.  She was also rude enough to tell people at the baby showers who gave her some disposable diapers to take them back and return them, she was NEVER going to use them.  So the baby comes and is too little to fit in the cloth diapers she ordered.  She decided to use disposables until the baby gained enough weight to fit in the cloth diapers.  GD is now 4 months old and has never been put in a cloth diaper.  DIL decided that disposables were pretty dang convenient.  No --- I have never, ever once mentioned the cloth diapers, altho I was there when one of her friends made a very catty remark about it and I had to look away before I broke out in a big smile.  (It was probably one of the friends who had to lug a box of disposals back from the baby shower!)

Like I said, we get so many rules all the time.  Half the time we watch the baby, we get an 8 1/2 x 11 paper with new rules, along with the baby.  I'm sure she's going to find out that we have broken some, but by that time I'm hoping she's worked her way through and figured out the rules were a bit over the top anyway.  We'll see.  She mentioned to DS that one of the issues of family watching the baby was that she couldn't fire family if she wasn't happy.  DS told me and I replied, "Oh, she absolutely can!  If she doesn't like the way I watch that child, she is open to fire me . . . but it works both ways.  If I'm unhappy, I can quit as well."  I don't think DS thought of that.

Yes, I'll start my "new job" here shortly.  It will be interesting.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: lancaster lady on April 22, 2011, 01:20:17 am
You know ST ....we have been there done that got the t shirt .Your DIL hasn't ,and you and I know you can't tell young people how to do anything .So we MIL have to keep schtum until they realise they're doing it wrong .......hey we moms all were newbies once , and its not easy.    I think things are going to be fine .....you  have a good sense of humour......remember smile sweetly when you receive  your orders for the day . H ave fun ...... ;D
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 22, 2011, 04:24:47 am
ST,

Obviously she does bend her rules. It's okay to think one way and change your mind later. Perhaps she is more flexible than you thought, she just needs some time. I don't see much wrong with that. I prefer opinionated and obstinate to indecision and not having your own thoughts about the way you plan to live your life.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 22, 2011, 05:24:32 am
I agree with Holly. your DIL does obviously alter her viewpoint on different "rules" from time to time. But, as long as the rules are in place you should do your absolute best to abide by them no matter how silly they are. If DIL wants you to draw polka dots on GC because she wants her to be "unique," you better do it. After all she IS the baby's MOTHER. You are the grandmother....

I would seriously rethink doing this. Your DIL is right. You CAN'T fire family without opening up that big ole can of worms. Likewise you can't quit without sending this message "DIL, I am OLDER, WISER and ALL Powerful. You are Young and an Idiot and have NO idea what it is you are doing. Everything that You do IS Wrong. If you would let ME raise the child, she would turn out better."

That's just what I would hear. And you know what, after hearing that, there would be no way I would allow you near my child. Just sayin' that it might be better to avoid the *bleep*storm all together.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 22, 2011, 06:27:02 am
Quote from: stilltryen on April 21, 2011, 11:35:49 pm
Thanks Sassy for your input.  I agree, I know that I'll be walking on eggshells - and have already discussed this with DS.  I think I'll discuss this directly with her and ask her.  She has made several "rules" and "demands" that she's had to walk back - and to be fair, she's realized her mistake.  However, none of these have involved me, so not sure how hubby and I would be affected.  An example of this was when she decided nobody, but nobody, would be in the delivery room with her and DS.  We laughed at that "rule," told DS in no uncertain terms that a) we never planned on being there with her; b) she could make a rule for us to be there, we would not show up; and c) what was she thinking, duh!!!!  But guess who did end up in the delivery room with her?  Yep, her parents.  We didn't care one way or the other, but DS was laughing, and rubbed it in big time, saying, "Hmmm, guess your rule got overruled!!"  She had to admit that, in the end, she was very happy her mom was there. 

Another rule?  Absolutely no disposable diapers were ever going to touch the bottom of that baby.  I suggested that she might think of getting disposables for when they went out somewhere.  She nearly ripped my head off for even suggesting such a thing.  No, no, and no - absolutely not!  Just cloth diapers, and she ordered some fancy dancy super duper wonderful cloth diapers.  She has a whole drawerful.  She was also rude enough to tell people at the baby showers who gave her some disposable diapers to take them back and return them, she was NEVER going to use them.  So the baby comes and is too little to fit in the cloth diapers she ordered.  She decided to use disposables until the baby gained enough weight to fit in the cloth diapers.  GD is now 4 months old and has never been put in a cloth diaper.  DIL decided that disposables were pretty dang convenient.  No --- I have never, ever once mentioned the cloth diapers, altho I was there when one of her friends made a very catty remark about it and I had to look away before I broke out in a big smile.  (It was probably one of the friends who had to lug a box of disposals back from the baby shower!)

Like I said, we get so many rules all the time.  Half the time we watch the baby, we get an 8 1/2 x 11 paper with new rules, along with the baby.  I'm sure she's going to find out that we have broken some, but by that time I'm hoping she's worked her way through and figured out the rules were a bit over the top anyway.  We'll see.  She mentioned to DS that one of the issues of family watching the baby was that she couldn't fire family if she wasn't happy.  DS told me and I replied, "Oh, she absolutely can!  If she doesn't like the way I watch that child, she is open to fire me . . . but it works both ways.  If I'm unhappy, I can quit as well."  I don't think DS thought of that.

Yes, I'll start my "new job" here shortly.  It will be interesting.


Hello new to the group so I am hope I am not stepping on any toes.  I truley believe that families hiring family is a very bad idea.  My mother does watch DD(3) on occasion but I would never have her watch my daughter as a "job." Most mother's have a view point on how to raise a child.  My parents did, you do and so do I.  For example Carseat saftey is a really big deal for me and my mother did not get why.  When I told her that I was going to RF(rear face) her for over a year she told me I was crazy that I shouldn't do it.  That she never did that with me so why was I doing that to DD.  We kept DD rfing until I couldn't any longer because the way my DH's van seat was it was laying back to far and that was not safe.  So I had to turn her around in my DH's van so I did it in my car too.  When she saw the pictures she got a little smug "So you changed your mine huh"  No I didn't change my mind or way of thinking but it was not possiable to do it.  DD will be harnessed for as long as she can be and I am sure my mother will have something to say about that. 

I think you being smug on what you think are your DIL's "Failures" and I really don't get that.  My mother can be like that herself and I have to say it does't do anyone a world of good.  You "experts at parenting" sometimes forget that you once walked in our shoes and I am sure you didn't want your MIL treating you the way you are acting.  You have all these hopes and dreams and goals to be the best mom ever. And sometimes those gaols are either over the top or just to hard reach.  People change there mind all the time.  And just because she change her mind doesn't make her wrong at all. 

I honestly from the post I read don't think you watching your GC is a good idea at all.  You want to play I am a mother I know best card.  And thats not a way to start out watching your GC.  After all times are different things that were ok back when you had children are not ok now. (example I am sure you put your son down on his stomach to sleep babies now sleep on their backs).  So if you can't follow every rule even as dumb as it is just say nope I can't do it sorry this is to much.  But don't sneak and break the rules just be honest.  After all its only going to cause problems when they find out. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 22, 2011, 06:40:56 am
Oh, that reminds me. APA is recommending children be rear facing for TWO years now. Just in case anyone is interested.

I had to drop DD off at my mom's this morning. I brought along my fan. She was like, "OH NO, that's not going in the bedroom...it'll be too cold for her...she'll get a cold, chills, etc."

I said, "I'm not worried about her being cold. There have been *some* studies done that show proper circulation of air reduces SIDS by 75%. I brought her a blanket and a sleep sack if it's chilly; and I do not want her overdressed to sleep." (It seemed a really simple way of reducing the likelihood of a tragedy to me, however unlikely). 

Mom started shaking her head saying I was dumb and that she never did that and I was fine. I said, "Look, I'll take the day off work to stay home with her, I'm fine with that. She has had a fan in her room since she was born. If you don't believe me, we can research it together tonight. For now, use the fan."

She just called and said DD is down for her morning nap. She apologized to me. She found the same studies I did on the internet. Whew!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 22, 2011, 06:52:23 am
That's interesting, Holly...  What do they say about walkers?  My dd mostly used hers to climb up to reach things.  I quickly put a stop to that. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 22, 2011, 07:09:09 am
It's not the walkers that are the issue as much as it is parents not paying 100% attention and those little guys moving too fast.

I think there were 40,000 injuries last year in the US, and not from falling down the steps either. Parents are using the gates, but the kids smash their hands on pieces of furniture and some of them are top heavy so the children fall and hit their head anyway. My pediatrician gave me some bunk about it being too confining and not using enough muscles...so it hindering walking...but I don't really believe that. She and I got square again though once she started talking injury and not development.

It's one of the precious few times in my life where I'll be able to provide protection for DD without her really realizing that's what I'm trying to do.  :)  :)
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 22, 2011, 07:29:21 am
Quote from: Holly on April 22, 2011, 07:09:09 am
It's one of the precious few times in my life where I'll be able to provide protection for DD without her really realizing that's what I'm trying to do.  :)  :)


You'll be using reverse psychology soon, if not already...   : )

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6476423/looney-toons-reverse-psychology-works-on-child

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 22, 2011, 07:38:45 am
Rose!

Do you realize I make little sticky notes for myself and put them on my purse so I can get caught up on all of your links when you post them and I am at work!?

you always give me something to look forward to! LOL.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 22, 2011, 08:02:59 am
I forget that you're at work.  I find most of these links using StumbleUpon.  It's an add-on for Mozilla Firefox that allows you to stumble upon sites that interest you.  You're given a list of topics to select from.  I've come across some really cool sites using it.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 09:32:05 am
Anonymous and Sassy - I'm going out on a limb here and assume that you two are DILs.  It sounds a bit like you're projecting your issues into your responses to me.  First of all, no, I don't think I'm "older, wiser and all powerful."  I'm older and tired, but honestly trying to help them.  I most assuredly would NEVER want to raise a child at this stage in my life.  Believe it or not, I have a ton of other interests besides my granddaughter and I have two elderly parents that I have to help with as well.  I'm watching the baby two days a week.  That's it.  95% of her rules are fine with me, but no, if she asks me to put polka dots on the kid, I will say, in no uncertain terms, "No."  I don't care if she is the mother, and I'm also NOT going to dip her in candlestick wax, or put eyeshadow on her, or do anything that is just plain, absolutely nuts.  There is a line, and as much as you feel a MIL is obliged to obey all things from DIL, that's as silly as asking a DIL to obey all things MIL.

I wasn't being smug at her failures, I was trying to use humor to point out that she has made rules that were over the top to begin with.  I used cloth diapers on both my boys, but I did have disposables for when I went out.  Seriously, you'd think that anyone would, at minimum, consider that suggestion.  While I realize that MILs or parents might be over the top with suggestions, etc., it works both ways.  I'm not her mom so I never tell her anything about the baby.  I've made some suggestions which have been immediately rebuffed, so I normally only talk about the weather, or other benign issues.  As I said, I come here to rant - with her, nothing. 

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 22, 2011, 09:38:29 am
I feel you, ST, and I understand your POV.  I do want to point out though, where you say-

Quotethat's as silly as asking a DIL to obey all things MIL


I think we need to take those 2 "titles" completely out of the equation here.  It's not just "obeying her command," it's respecting her right to raise her child the way she sees fit.  It's like, if you were a babysitter who wasn't her MIL, she'd write out the list of rules and you would need to respect it because it's her CHILD, not because she's "the DIL."  KWIM?  She's the parent- I think that's the only reason this is a sticky mess.  That's the only reason it isn't "silly" for you to "obey" her here.  Because technically, if she's the parent and she has a "rule," even if you deem it "silly," it is her rule and as long as it's not harming the child, it is your responsibility to abide by those rules if she has left her child under your care with the assumption that you ARE abiding by those rules.   A rule that is silly to someone could mean the world to someone else, so these are completely subjective- but the parent has the ultimate say.

You are soooo right in that you have the right to say, "No," but what that should mean is, "no, those rules are not conducive to my lifestyle, so unfortunatelyI won't be able to watch the baby for you anymore."  Instead of, "no, I won't follow those rules whether you like it or not- and maybe you'll find out but maybe you won't."
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 22, 2011, 09:50:24 am
I don't think any of us are saying that her rules are not ridiculous. But, with ridiculous rules, here are the options:

1.) Listen to them, and honestly follow them and enjoy watching your GK despite the nonsense.
2.) Ignore them, possibly get caught and give her ammunition that let's face it, she  may be dying to use....and then likely not "EVER babysit the child again." ( I put that in quotes b/c I've read the horror stories on here).
3.) Read the rule list and ask about the rules honestly. Be up front with what you can do and what you can not do, and be secure  with the fact that she may decide to put the baby in daycare.

#1 allows you the ability to look like you did everything according to instruction. It also gives her some time to think about her rules and adjust them. All parents do that, she has already done that with the diapers. Most people don't keep doing the  wrong thing for very long when they figure it out. It's okay to give  them time to figure it out.

# 2....sounds like a total landmine to me.

#3...it establishes some form of communication, and you might get very good reasons for why she and your DS choose to have those rules in place. The communication is a must for anyone watching someone else's child, no matter a GP/nanny/friend/daycare. It also allows you to point out that you respect her rules although you might not agree. She does sound a little more flexible a few days after the fact than right away...so your words may just sink in, or they may not. If they don't, she might have very good reason.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 09:57:09 am
overwhelmed, there's really only the tv issue that I have with her rules.  Like I posted earlier, if hubby comes home from work and wants to watch tv, I will not ask him to turn it off because she has a rule about the tv being on around her daughter.  As I've noted, I'm not parking the kid in front of the tv, and I can certainly be in another part of the house where you can't hear the tv, but that's simply not a rule I'm following.  It's still our home and hubby has a right to watch tv for an hour or so if he wants. 

Because of the feedback on here, I will be discussing this with her and telling her flat out that this rule is not acceptable and ask her what she wants to do.  Incidentally, DS thinks it's another of her over the top rules, and hmmmmmm, he's the father.  Or do they not count, kind of like MILs?  DS said keeping her in another part of the house was fine with him, GD can't hear the tv anyway - but DIL's rule is "No television set is to be on AT ALL in the house . . ." 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 22, 2011, 09:59:33 am
I'm glad you are going to communicate your feelings to her.  I would strongly suggest you not using the phrase though, that this rule is "not acceptable."  You may want to try saying, "that just won't work for our household,"  or, like I mentioned earlier, "I'm not sure that is going to be conducive to our lifestyle, do you think it would be okay with you if the tv is on in the other room but she isn't watching it?"
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sassy on April 22, 2011, 10:04:15 am
Did they agree to the babysitting being done at your house, instead of theirs?

Just thinking that the TV on when DH relaxes after work in your house thing, might not matter, if the child care is taking place outside your home anyway.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 22, 2011, 10:05:53 am
ST,

I am really glad you're going to be honest with her. Just say it and let it sink in. She may be inconsiderate, but she does sound more flexible than I thought. That's probably a good thing.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pen on April 22, 2011, 10:21:35 am
Quote from: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 09:57:09 am
overwhelmed, there's really only the tv issue that I have with her rules.  Like I posted earlier, if hubby comes home from work and wants to watch tv, I will not ask him to turn it off because she has a rule about the tv being on around her daughter.  As I've noted, I'm not parking the kid in front of the tv, and I can certainly be in another part of the house where you can't hear the tv, but that's simply not a rule I'm following.  It's still our home and hubby has a right to watch tv for an hour or so if he wants. 

Because of the feedback on here, I will be discussing this with her and telling her flat out that this rule is not acceptable and ask her what she wants to do.  Incidentally, DS thinks it's another of her over the top rules, and hmmmmmm, he's the father.  Or do they not count, kind of like MILs?  DS said keeping her in another part of the house was fine with him, GD can't hear the tv anyway - but DIL's rule is "No television set is to be on AT ALL in the house . . ."


Beware, ST, you may be in the position of being set up to fail. Once you fail DIL can use it to cut you off. I truly hope I'm wrong and Holly and others are correct in their assessment that your DIL is less rigid than originally described, but I would use caution in approaching her about your POV.

I agree that DS is the dad and should be part of the rule making process. Sometimes it does seem that the dads and their FOOs are treated as less than worthy, at least that's how it's likely to go down in my situation.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 10:24:20 am
Yes, DIL broke that "rule" with no second thought at all.  The original deal between us was that I would watch GD here at my home, since it's on the way to work for them.  Sassy, you're right, not an issue if I go down there.  I don't watch tv at all, except sometimes in the evening, so no big deal to me.  If I'm watching her here, we're back to square one.  We're still deliberating that issue.

She's flexible when reality hits her in the face, until then she digs in her heels.  Her mother, whom, as I said, I've known for years and we get along well, laughs at a lot of them and immediately breaks them (like her hospital rule).  There's a long list of things she's come up with (didn't affect us, but her parents) and her parents have just kind of, "Oh, honey, that's just plain silly." and ignored them.  I don't have that luxury. 

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 22, 2011, 10:29:44 am
Yes, I'm a DIL. Thought that was obvious by my name. I'm just trying to point out that it is HER child and you should respect her wishes or you might not be allowed to watch your GC. I'm sure you do have a life outside of GD, but I doubt you'd want a life with no GD in it at all.

You sound, IMHO, extremely antagonistic towards your DIL (DIL's in general?) as evidenced by your phrase of the rule being "unacceptable" in your house. Well, if I were your DIL and you said that to me I would take it as the cue to not leave my child with you.

I think you are playing with fire and our going to get burned. You really should find a way out of doing this or it is going to blow up and be very very bad.

Also, just going to throw this out there. Grandparents actually have NO "visitation" rights when it comes to their grandchild as long as the child's parents are still married.

Just be careful. I think it is awful when families cut members out of their lives.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: lancaster lady on April 22, 2011, 10:41:42 am
Stilltryin has said nothing to her DIL ....she is just ranting here on this forum .....that's what we are here for .

My GD loves TV and has done since she was born .... she loves the colours and the music ....we have baby programmes here
which are an early learning process .She only watches maybe a half hour a day .....I don't find that excessive .

no tv anywhere in the house is crazy , what happens if the house is massive ? You would never hear it .....I hardly think a tv
on in a house with a baby is a cut off situation .
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 22, 2011, 10:53:10 am
ADil,

Are we a little apprehensive about this weekend's visit? Seriously, ST said several times she was ranting. So long as none of this comes across to her DIL when the discussion happens, I don't see a problem.

ST,

I think most people I have met are inflexible until reality hits them in the face. No big deal. I also think that  her mom's ignoring the rules will wear thin. I was pretty aggravated with my mother this morning over the fan.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sun_is_still_shining on April 22, 2011, 10:59:54 am
Holy Smokes! Such upset feelings and the actual scheduled child minding has yet to start.. Hrmm.

I think the whole talking about the rules is a great idea. Your DIL can have an oppertunity to hear you out and inturn she can explain the reasoning for her rules. This could be a good way to start taking the relationship down a better path or at least to see DIL for her true colours. I know with me, I was really anal at first when I became a mother. But, I know it's because I read way too much and I just wanted the absolute best for my DD. I easily overeducate myself and stress out. I have changed quite a bit over the 3 years of having her around but there are rules that have lasted and I firmly believe in.

That being said, I've never been in the situation that your in ST. I had my mom do most of the babysitting for me, when I returned to university (DD was a year) since MIL and I never really had much of a relationship to begin with (nor with my DH, might I add)..  (I have 3 SILs and I'm the only one who doesn't let her do whatever she wants). (AHEM, backround info, MIL and I have a long 6 year history of unfortunate disasters..) DM and I did knock heads over a pile of issues, such a TV time, routines, etc. But with good communication, open-mindness, and a willingness to listen to each other things are usually pretty good. We aren't always on the same wavelength tho. LOL! I think the MIL/DIL relationship is tougher since it's easier to be insulted and we are less likely give each other respect as easily as we do with our FOO.  It sounds like DIL is on a trip of residual post-pregancy hormones and she isn't going to be easy to deal with.. but try anyway, maybe things will turn out right.

If the talk between you and your DIL goes really sour, I think that option #1 (daycare/MIL and mom) sounded really good. That way you could get a break from your over demanding DIL and still get alot of quality time with you GD. It would be hard to bring up but you could sit down with DS and DIL, so then no one can twist what you had to say since both parties are present.  It sounds like your DIL isn't going to be changing anytime soon, so if you decide to to go ahead with the babysitting be prepared for the massive demand list. Wishing you lots of luck!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 11:01:18 am
Just got the news from DS, he has been discussing these issues non-stop with her for the past week.  DIL has come to the realization that it's fine for them to drop off the baby here two days a week - so, no, I don't have to travel down there.  Yay!  Also, it's fine about the tv, as long as I'm not in the same room with her.  She may be the mom, but evidently it's dawned on her that GD has a father with some input as well.  The other 98% of the rules, no problem!!

Anonymous, you're right.  I wasn't paying attention to your name.  I know that everyone here posts with their own experiences and backgrounds, from the sound of your post you may have had some issues with grandparents.  We take DS & DIL to the airport when they travel (and they do frequently), my younger son goes to their house to watch their dogs, we have them over to our house a lot, we get together with family, but for the most part, we leave them alone and don't bother them.  I like my DIL and I do respect her.  She drives me crazy at times because she has her moments with a couple of her nutty rules, but I seriously doubt that DS would ever let her cut us out of GD's life completely.  Frankly, I don't think her parents would let her either, as I said, they break her rules with impunity.

I think it's sad that you would cut someone out of your child's life simply because they disagreed with you on an issue.  If someone tells you that they're not comfortable with some decision you've arrived at regarding the care of your child, before you get so antagonistic, perhaps you might sit down and chat and find out what led the other person to reach that conclusion.  If, after a discussion, you still feel strongly about it, then sure, don't leave your child.  However, if your MIL or mother is reaching out to you and trying, most times there is no better person.  However, you know your own situation better than anyone.

Anyway, I'm a happy camper!  Let the babysitting begin.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sun_is_still_shining on April 22, 2011, 11:13:30 am
Yay! Well that's good news!!  Just take DIL with a grain of salt, she's probably justs wants to feel like she's getting input in. It does show how much she cares about her DD. Better than a parent who doesn't say anything and just drops their kid off and runs for the hills. Enjoy that lovely GD :)
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sassy on April 22, 2011, 11:22:07 am
My name is Sassy.  I have been a member of WWU since at least 2009, when it was still MILunite.
I was inactive for a while due to work, but I posted on this thread yesterday.
Today a "newbie" named herself SassyDI (??), and made one post - and wise women, "SassyDI" is not Sassy


I will respectfully message her and ask if she could change her name to one another member is not already using. 


To clarify: The below post was not written by the "real" Sassy :-)
QuoteHello new to the group so I am hope I am not stepping on any toes.  I truley believe that families hiring family is a very bad idea.  My mother does watch DD(3) on occasion but I would never have her watch my daughter as a "job." Most mother's have a view point on how to raise a child.  My parents did, you do and so do I.  For example Carseat saftey is a really big deal for me and my mother did not get why.  When I told her that I was going to RF(rear face) her for over a year she told me I was crazy that I shouldn't do it.  That she never did that with me so why was I doing that to DD.  We kept DD rfing until I couldn't any longer because the way my DH's van seat was it was laying back to far and that was not safe.  So I had to turn her around in my DH's van so I did it in my car too.  When she saw the pictures she got a little smug "So you changed your mine huh"  No I didn't change my mind or way of thinking but it was not possiable to do it.  DD will be harnessed for as long as she can be and I am sure my mother will have something to say about that. 

I think you being smug on what you think are your DIL's "Failures" and I really don't get that.  My mother can be like that herself and I have to say it does't do anyone a world of good.  You "experts at parenting" sometimes forget that you once walked in our shoes and I am sure you didn't want your MIL treating you the way you are acting.  You have all these hopes and dreams and goals to be the best mom ever. And sometimes those gaols are either over the top or just to hard reach.  People change there mind all the time.  And just because she change her mind doesn't make her wrong at all. 

I honestly from the post I read don't think you watching your GC is a good idea at all.  You want to play I am a mother I know best card.  And thats not a way to start out watching your GC.  After all times are different things that were ok back when you had children are not ok now. (example I am sure you put your son down on his stomach to sleep babies now sleep on their backs).  So if you can't follow every rule even as dumb as it is just say nope I can't do it sorry this is to much.  But don't sneak and break the rules just be honest.  After all its only going to cause problems when they find out. 


(NOT written by Sassy)  :D
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pen on April 22, 2011, 11:25:39 am
Thought that was so, "real" Sassy! Glad to have you back, and glad to welcome the new SassyDI. I agree it might be a bit confusing, thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 22, 2011, 11:37:08 am
Sassy, for what it's worth, it wasn't an issue when I read it- I could tell the name difference with no problem.  I think there are some other similar names here, as far as I know it hasn't caused an issue.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sassy on April 22, 2011, 11:37:43 am
Thank you Pen.  It's so good to see all these wise women again!  I remember when you were Pentasmen....

Love, the "real" Sassy  :-*
Since 2009
Proud to be a Full Member of WWU
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sassy on April 22, 2011, 11:46:25 am
Thank you, overwhelmed.
I actually completely missed that post today when I had asked stilltryen about the tv.
When stilltryen had replied about "Sassy" and "issues" I was confused. 
I went back to re-read what I wrote yesterday. That's when realized another "SassyDI" signed up and wrote something that I believe stilltryen was actually responding to.

Felt a bit like a twilight zone episode for a moment ;D

Thanks again,
the "real" Sassy
Since 2009
Proud to be a Full Member of WWU
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 22, 2011, 12:08:31 pm
Good to see you back Sassy!  :D

When a person signs up they can't see the User Name list and are approved unless it's a total duplication. We have several like that.

And Welcome Sassy DI! You're in good company!  :)

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sassy on April 22, 2011, 12:16:21 pm
Thank you Luise.  Thanks also for keeping the site going.  I got through a crazy tax season thinking "When it's over, I'll have time to check in".  What a warm and wonderful place you host.

Stilltryen - Hooray that you're not being asked to commute anymore, and that you don't have to worry about being "bad" when your husband relaxes with the tv.  Lots of luck!

Love,
the "real" Sassy
Since 2009
Proud to be a Full Member of WWU
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 22, 2011, 12:17:22 pm
Thank you Louise.  Glad to be here. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 22, 2011, 12:42:04 pm
And you are the real SassyDI!  ;)
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: lancaster lady on April 22, 2011, 01:14:09 pm
St:...Good news ...! give your DS a big kiss from the WW ....he's a wise boy ...just like his Mom .... :)
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 22, 2011, 01:28:35 pm
HAHAHAHA thanks.  Was thinking of writing that myself maybe thats what I should have called myself.

OP Yes I am a DIL.  Her stuff is not over the top plain and simple you just don't agree with her.  A new mother is learning the ropes giving her baby even to the grandmother can be very hard.  Maybe her feelings changed but it doesn't make her over the top it makes her human.  Futher as a former Childcare provider I can tell you this your GC was better off at daycare as an infant.  One day you might not want to do the watching and that child will have a harder time adjusting the older that child gets.  Babies adjust fast and easy when they are serveral months old.  The older they get the hard it is. 

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 22, 2011, 01:48:15 pm
The gc will be totally fine. Children make adjustments all the time. This daycare/at home care debate gets no one anywhere because each has just a many drawbacks and advantages as the other. Six in one hand...
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 01:50:01 pm
Quote from: SassyDI on April 22, 2011, 01:28:35 pm
Her stuff is not over the top plain and simple you just don't agree with her.  A new mother is learning the ropes giving her baby even to the grandmother can be very hard.  Maybe her feelings changed but it doesn't make her over the top it makes her human.  Futher as a former Childcare provider I can tell you this your GC was better off at daycare as an infant.  One day you might not want to do the watching and that child will have a harder time adjusting the older that child gets.  Babies adjust fast and easy when they are serveral months old.  The older they get the hard it is.


Totally agree with you, it is hard to give your baby to anyone else to watch, been there, done that.  Honestly, MILs do not just spring up.  We've been through it.  Of course, she's human, I never said she wasn't, I've just said her rules make my eyes roll - along with pretty much everyone else.  If you feel that it's perfectly reasonable demanding that a television not be on at all in a home, even though the baby wouldn't even be able to hear it in another room, then we shall disagree on the definition "over the top."  I think that particular rule is "over the top," you think it's fine.  I respect your opinion, even if I disagree with it.

I disagree with your assessment about daycare being the best course of action for an infant, but there is research on both sides.  There is research that says a child does better being watched at a daycare, and there is also sufficient resarch on the opposing side, that children flourish much better being with a loved one.  I can tell you that, for hubby and I back when, it was hard making the house payments, etc.  Yes, if that had been our only alternative, we would have made do, put our children in daycare and sucked it up with the costs.  I'm very grateful that I had another option, a loving, caring, warm home with someone who loved those children as much as I did.  I didn't agree with some of the things my mother did either, but I never doubted for a minute that she didn't have their best interests in her heart. 

Just as an FYI, I am not watching GD forever.  She will, eventually, be going to daycare.  I've posted before that none of us are opposed to daycare, we just felt an infant was better off in a home, getting one on one attention.  I don't know at what point they'll make that decision.  I had to put my children in a daycare eventually too, and they loved it.  They had lots of programs there, field trips, etc.  It was fine.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: lancaster lady on April 22, 2011, 02:02:08 pm
I find this topic amazing to run into 6 pages .
all b/c a GM has offered to look after her beloved GC for two days a week .
We know who the mom is , and she will have different ideas to the GM .however we also know that the GM
will love and cherish and do her utmost to look after her GC and keep that baby safe 24/7 .
Is that so terrible ?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 02:08:29 pm
By the way ADIL, you may want to reconsider your comment, "I'm just trying to point out that it is HER child . . ."  No.  It is not.   That's part of the problem that a lot of women automatically assume that they are the only parent in a child's life.  To be fair, if they're a single mom, that may, indeed, be the case.  However, in this case, my GD has two parents.  I didn't always agree with hubby's point of view when raising our children, but marriage and children involve a lot of hard work, compromise, tears, anger, discussion, more compromise, etc.  There are going to be times that one gives a lot more than the other, but overall I firmly believe that both parents are working for the good and welfare of THEIR children.  And BOTH my GD's parents have input into all discussions regarding her care and welfare, DIL does not get to drive the bus alone.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 22, 2011, 02:10:25 pm
Lots of ways to look at this. I would have felt really guilty in my day (I'm 84 years old) to leave my sons. It probably would have been good for them to have multiple-moms if they were loving and kind...and more kids to play with...again, if the supervision was kind and fair. Those are big "ifs", I suppose.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 02:14:03 pm
Quote from: lancaster lady on April 22, 2011, 02:02:08 pm
I find this topic amazing to run into 6 pages .
all b/c a GM has offered to look after her beloved GC for two days a week .
We know who the mom is , and she will have different ideas to the GM .however we also know that the GM
will love and cherish and do her utmost to look after her GC and keep that baby safe 24/7 .
Is that so terrible ?


LL, no, nothing wrong with this.  But there are some DIL's on here who are responding from their experiences.  It's been interesting to me to read those posts.  This post was about MILs being able to vent about their DILs.  Sometimes it feels like it's the other way around, but as long as everyone is respectful, it's fine.  Everyone has a fresh perspective they bring to the table.  But I am going to give my DS a big hug and a kiss for always being down to earth about everything, just as you suggested!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 22, 2011, 02:23:31 pm
Quote from: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 02:14:03 pm
Quote from: lancaster lady on April 22, 2011, 02:02:08 pm
I find this topic amazing to run into 6 pages .
all b/c a GM has offered to look after her beloved GC for two days a week .
We know who the mom is , and she will have different ideas to the GM .however we also know that the GM
will love and cherish and do her utmost to look after her GC and keep that baby safe 24/7 .
Is that so terrible ?


LL, no, nothing wrong with this.  But there are some DIL's on here who are responding from their experiences.  It's been interesting to me to read those posts.  This post was about MILs being able to vent about their DILs.  Sometimes it feels like it's the other way around, but as long as everyone is respectful, it's fine.  Everyone has a fresh perspective they bring to the table.  But I am going to give my DS a big hug and a kiss for always being down to earth about everything, just as you suggested!


Its because we are trying to tell you how your DIL  might just be feeling.  Just trying to get you to see it from the other side. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 22, 2011, 02:27:54 pm
Yes, we did start out as a MIL site but a few months in, when DILS started joining us, we realized that it isn't the title so much as it's a closed mind...MIL or DIL...that messes up the works. We started meeting DILS who were trying very hard and being stopped at every turn by MILs with closed minds. So, WWUn has become a site to explore and and all issues in extended families. Those with an I'm right/you're wrong attitude don't find us very interesting...and move on to the the gripe-sites. When they don't, there's "trouble in River City"...because we don't tolerate intolerance. LOL!  Sending love...
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sassy on April 22, 2011, 02:43:49 pm
I received a message from SassyDI telling me she thought I was rude.   I want to publicly apologize.  SassyDI, I certainly did not mean to be rude to you.    Although I will admit I am not sure what exactly you found rude, I can assure you, that was not my intention.

I did intend to bring immediate attention, to clear up the confusion about exactly what I myself had written and what I had not , since the first two words of your first post here as SassyDI, were "Hi Sassy".   The quote used by you as SassyDI , was the OP's reply to my earlier post to her.   I was confused.   So, apparently was the OP.  Stilltryen addressed Sassy (not SassyDI), in response to SassyDI's post to her.  Which (obviously) I did not write.  Your post appeared to be "my" reply to her, since you had quoted both my name and her reply to me.  Whew.

If your first post here didn't have both my name in it, and the reply to my earlier post,  I probably wouldn't have even noticed your name.  At least, it would not have caused confusion, and I would not have needed to clarify your words were not from me. 

Anyway, it is clear Sassy and SassyDI do have very different personalities.  So, welcome SassyDI!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 03:04:54 pm
SassyDI (got it right!), re:  "Its because we are trying to tell you how your DIL  might just be feeling.  Just trying to get you to see it from the other side."  Yes, got it and appreciate it.  However, experience is the best teacher, and while you are a DIL, every MIL here has been a DIL.  Just remember that we've been there.  Trust me, I had my own issues with my MIL.   I know what it's like to give birth, stay home with your infant, then have to go back to work.  I know the clashes that come with how you want to raise your child and how parents want to babysit.  We have some years of dealing with all this.

What you bring to the table is the perspective of the new generation, and we appreciate that.  A lot of us (me) are very old-fashioned regarding manners and courtesy and it's been an eye opener for what now passes for acceptable.  I don't know if some of this is the new generation or if it's just my DIL.  That's why I come here to scream, rant, rave and carry on.  That way, when I deal with DIL face to face, I feel like I'm prepared with some insight.

Oh, and funny story.  Turns out DS was not feeling well, went home early.  Found tv on in the living room and DIL feeding baby in the nursery.  He's like, "Uh, the tv is on."  "Oh, I know, I was watching it when baby woke up, I just ran in here, got busy and never got back out to the living room to shut it off.  She can't hear it from here." DIL replied.  Noting my son's raised eyebrow, she decided to forego her "rule" on the spot ....... seeings as how she broke it herself.  Hahahaha, and no, please don't tell me I'm being "smug about her failure."  I just find the humor in this.  Stuff happens.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 22, 2011, 03:05:32 pm
I think if you don't know that new members enroll without having the opportunity to see the member list, then you might think there was an impostor using your name or something. It's pretty logical that someone who wasn't a member yet wouldn't have access to that imformation. I tried to clear that up, immediately, when it happened today. Both of you are authentic and welcome and a reaction that says you're the "real" member could have been seen as unwelcoming...but understandable. Is everything OK, now?

I really don't like Personal Messaging, as all of you all know...since I asked Kirk to disable it last week. It will be gone for good on May 1st. Trying to clear up issues that arise in Personal Messaging almost brought this site down recently. If you don't like something in a Personal Message this isn't the place to handle it, Personal Messaging is. If you get one you don't like...you can even ignore it. I just can't stay on top of both venues.

I have to tell you I am not up for another big Forum conflict. I just don't have it in me at this time. Please give me a break.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: lancaster lady on April 22, 2011, 03:11:06 pm
Luise .....I am sure your loyal members will not let that happen .......right  girls ?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sassy on April 22, 2011, 03:13:17 pm
Everything is ok now!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 22, 2011, 03:26:44 pm
Quote from: luise.volta on April 22, 2011, 03:05:32 pm
I think if you don't know that new members enroll without having the opportunity to see the member list, then you might think there was an impostor using your name or something. It's pretty logical that someone who wasn't a member yet wouldn't have access to that imformation. I tried to clear that up, immediately, when it happened today. Both of you are authentic and welcome and a reaction that says you're the "real" member could have been seen as unwelcoming...but understandable. Is everything OK, now?

I really don't like Personal Messaging, as all of you all know...since I asked Kirk to disable it last week. It will be gone for good on May 1st. Trying to clear up issues that arise in Personal Messaging almost brought this site down recently. If you don't like something in a Personal Message this isn't the place to handle it, Personal Messaging is. If you get one you don't like...you can even ignore it. I just can't stay on top of both venues.

I have to tell you I am not up for another big Forum conflict. I just don't have it in me at this time. Please give me a break.


I have to say that unwelcome is how I felt.  Putting "Real" was what I found rude.  I came on here they said my name was avaiable so I took it.  I am not hear to start drama and if this is how the site is going to be over a name I can kindly leave.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 22, 2011, 03:33:59 pm
Quote from: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 03:04:54 pm
SassyDI (got it right!), re:  "Its because we are trying to tell you how your DIL  might just be feeling.  Just trying to get you to see it from the other side."  Yes, got it and appreciate it.  However, experience is the best teacher, and while you are a DIL, every MIL here has been a DIL.  Just remember that we've been there.  Trust me, I had my own issues with my MIL.   I know what it's like to give birth, stay home with your infant, then have to go back to work.  I know the clashes that come with how you want to raise your child and how parents want to babysit.  We have some years of dealing with all this.

What you bring to the table is the perspective of the new generation, and we appreciate that.  A lot of us (me) are very old-fashioned regarding manners and courtesy and it's been an eye opener for what now passes for acceptable.  I don't know if some of this is the new generation or if it's just my DIL.  That's why I come here to scream, rant, rave and carry on.  That way, when I deal with DIL face to face, I feel like I'm prepared with some insight.

Oh, and funny story.  Turns out DS was not feeling well, went home early.  Found tv on in the living room and DIL feeding baby in the nursery.  He's like, "Uh, the tv is on."  "Oh, I know, I was watching it when baby woke up, I just ran in here, got busy and never got back out to the living room to shut it off.  She can't hear it from here." DIL replied.  Noting my son's raised eyebrow, she decided to forego her "rule" on the spot ....... seeings as how she broke it herself.  Hahahaha, and no, please don't tell me I'm being "smug about her failure."  I just find the humor in this.  Stuff happens.


Is your DS five?  He tattles a lot on his wife it seems and thats not good for your relationshipw for him and his wife.  Sounds like your son likes to start drama.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 22, 2011, 03:36:00 pm
Quote from: SassyDI on April 22, 2011, 03:33:59 pm
Quote from: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 03:04:54 pm
SassyDI (got it right!), re:  "Its because we are trying to tell you how your DIL  might just be feeling.  Just trying to get you to see it from the other side."  Yes, got it and appreciate it.  However, experience is the best teacher, and while you are a DIL, every MIL here has been a DIL.  Just remember that we've been there.  Trust me, I had my own issues with my MIL.   I know what it's like to give birth, stay home with your infant, then have to go back to work.  I know the clashes that come with how you want to raise your child and how parents want to babysit.  We have some years of dealing with all this.

What you bring to the table is the perspective of the new generation, and we appreciate that.  A lot of us (me) are very old-fashioned regarding manners and courtesy and it's been an eye opener for what now passes for acceptable.  I don't know if some of this is the new generation or if it's just my DIL.  That's why I come here to scream, rant, rave and carry on.  That way, when I deal with DIL face to face, I feel like I'm prepared with some insight.

Oh, and funny story.  Turns out DS was not feeling well, went home early.  Found tv on in the living room and DIL feeding baby in the nursery.  He's like, "Uh, the tv is on."  "Oh, I know, I was watching it when baby woke up, I just ran in here, got busy and never got back out to the living room to shut it off.  She can't hear it from here." DIL replied.  Noting my son's raised eyebrow, she decided to forego her "rule" on the spot ....... seeings as how she broke it herself.  Hahahaha, and no, please don't tell me I'm being "smug about her failure."  I just find the humor in this.  Stuff happens.


Is your DS five?  He tattles a lot on his wife it seems and thats not good for your relationshipw for him and his wife.  Sounds like your son likes to start drama.


Correction He tattle on his wife it seems and thats not good for your relationship with them or for him and his wife.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 03:43:29 pm
"Is your DS five?  He tattles a lot on his wife it seems and thats not good for your relationshipw for him and his wife.  Sounds like your son likes to start drama.  Correction He tattle on his wife it seems and thats not good for your relationship with them or for him and his wife."

Guess you totally missed the part about how I rant here and say nothing, repeat, nothing to my DIL?  So how am I (or my son, for that matter) starting any drama?  There is no drama at all IN REAL LIFE.  Everything is resolved regarding the babysitting, etc.  All is well in my world.  But for you, dear SassyDI, I'll quit sharing "my drama," so you can be happy.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: jj on April 22, 2011, 03:45:09 pm
The arrangments for childcare were all arranged.  Childcare was arranged the way that DIL and her husband had agreed. You didn't like it.  You should have left well enough alone.  Your DIL's husband appears to have put pressure on her to change the arrangments and now everything is falling apart and now there are hard feelings.  I also don't understand the has more than one parent comment.  This child has one mother and one father.  No one else is the parent to this child.  Keep pushing DIL with your opinions (which of course you say do what you want after you have already said more than you should have).  Quite frankly, it is their business if they want to spend $9000 for two days of daycare.  So basically your offer to help her was to give her help on your terms.  You don't get to do that.  Also, don't understand the 35 minutes from your home to DIL's home.  Is is the same distance from DIL's home to yours.  So of course it makes sense to wake the baby up, put her in the car and take her to your home.  What would be the difference? 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 22, 2011, 03:49:37 pm
Quote from: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 03:43:29 pm
"Is your DS five?  He tattles a lot on his wife it seems and thats not good for your relationshipw for him and his wife.  Sounds like your son likes to start drama.  Correction He tattle on his wife it seems and thats not good for your relationship with them or for him and his wife."

Guess you totally missed the part about how I rant here and say nothing, repeat, nothing to my DIL?  So how am I (or my son, for that matter) starting any drama?  There is no drama at all IN REAL LIFE.  Everything is resolved regarding the babysitting, etc.  All is well in my world.  But for you, dear SassyDI, I'll quit sharing "my drama," so you can be happy.


I did not mean that agains you but against him.  Seems opinions are not welcome here either.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 22, 2011, 04:05:28 pm
Experience is the best teacher...when it is You, yourself experiencing it. It is not nearly as effective when someone, anyone, is telling you their experience. It is okay to consider the experience of another, but that is hardly the same as learning yourself. Advice isn't the BEST way to do things, it is only the BEST way that worked for you at the time you went through your own personal experience.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 22, 2011, 04:06:50 pm
Oh, for heaven sake, SassyDI, stop it. You were mistreated and misunderstood. We realize that and ..we're sorry . I did the best I could to undo it. Stop judging us for judging you and stop looking for perfection here or any place else. It doesn't exist. We all make mistakes.  Sassy overreacted and you overreacted to her overreaction. It has to end some place. Enough already. There are other WWU subjects where you can start over. We want you here. OK?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 22, 2011, 04:22:43 pm
We have managed to keep Miss Understood and misunderstood right. I think we'll be alright.

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 22, 2011, 04:32:58 pm
LOL, just got home to watch this...very cute, Rose! Coming home to your totally appropriate and fitting (and funny) posts makes me forget that terrible commute I have!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 22, 2011, 09:24:45 pm
Sorry, Rose, I was talking about your link, not the posts. I forgot to quote.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 23, 2011, 05:55:50 am
Quote from: stilltryen on April 22, 2011, 11:01:18 am
Just got the news from DS, he has been discussing these issues non-stop with her for the past week.  DIL has come to the realization that it's fine for them to drop off the baby here two days a week - so, no, I don't have to travel down there.  Yay!  Also, it's fine about the tv, as long as I'm not in the same room with her.  She may be the mom, but evidently it's dawned on her that GD has a father with some input as well.  The other 98% of the rules, no problem!!

Anonymous, you're right.  I wasn't paying attention to your name.  I know that everyone here posts with their own experiences and backgrounds, from the sound of your post you may have had some issues with grandparents.  We take DS & DIL to the airport when they travel (and they do frequently), my younger son goes to their house to watch their dogs, we have them over to our house a lot, we get together with family, but for the most part, we leave them alone and don't bother them.  I like my DIL and I do respect her.  She drives me crazy at times because she has her moments with a couple of her nutty rules, but I seriously doubt that DS would ever let her cut us out of GD's life completely.  Frankly, I don't think her parents would let her either, as I said, they break her rules with impunity.

I think it's sad that you would cut someone out of your child's life simply because they disagreed with you on an issue.  If someone tells you that they're not comfortable with some decision you've arrived at regarding the care of your child, before you get so antagonistic, perhaps you might sit down and chat and find out what led the other person to reach that conclusion.  If, after a discussion, you still feel strongly about it, then sure, don't leave your child.  However, if your MIL or mother is reaching out to you and trying, most times there is no better person.  However, you know your own situation better than anyone.

Anyway, I'm a happy camper!  Let the babysitting begin.


Um, I don't even HAVE kids.... I was saying it would be SAD for you to lose contact with your GD over something silly. Also, studies have shown that TV is very bad for young developing minds. It really isn't a stupid rule IMHO.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 23, 2011, 06:06:14 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 22, 2011, 03:33:59 pm
Is your DS five?  He tattles a lot on his wife it seems and thats not good for your relationshipw for him and his wife.  Sounds like your son likes to start drama.


SassyDI, I was thinking the same thing. He needs to learn that what happens between a husband and a wife is no one else's business. I learned the hard way to not involve family in DH/DW things. Now my DB hates my DH. Sooooo, hopefully, he will realize this before it causes issues in his marraige. Especially now that there is a child involved.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 23, 2011, 06:58:08 am
SassyDI, maybe you can post an avatar to make it easy to tell the difference.  I think everyone will be fine though if you don't lol.  Welcome
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 23, 2011, 07:13:39 am
We have Nana, Nana1, NanaP, Nana120108, Nanamom, and Nanalu all of WWU and we have nerver, as in NEVER, had any kind of a problem with it. Not ONCE!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 23, 2011, 08:20:25 am
Please also read my post: "Personal Messaging and WWU Eitquet" under the Grab Bag category.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 23, 2011, 08:34:17 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 22, 2011, 03:33:59 pm
Is your DS five?  He tattles a lot on his wife it seems and thats not good for your relationshipw for him and his wife.  Sounds like your son likes to start drama.

Sassydi... I'm not sure why you chose to use the wording that you did.  "Is your DS five?" 

I did not agree with what ST was saying in quite a few of her postings and neither did some of the other members but I did not see anyone coming at another member in this fashion.  How about getting to know some of us before being so negative? 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: 1Glitterati on April 23, 2011, 09:23:22 am
I've really thought long and hard about this...and I want to address this statement:

"What you bring to the table is the perspective of the new generation, and we appreciate that.  A lot of us (me) are very old-fashioned regarding manners and courtesy and it's been an eye opener for what now passes for acceptable."

I simply don't think disagreeing with or telling an "elder" no is unmannerly or discourteous.  I so many times see older people talking about how disrespectful or rude someone younger is...and they're not---they're simply not agreeing with or letting the older person have their way.  That is not disrespect.  That is having your own wants and boundaries and standing up for and enforcing them.  That can be done in a nice tone of voice and it can be done without being rude...but saying no or not giving someone what they want is not in and of itself rude or unmannerly.  No one has the right to want they want and expect it simply because of age. 

Capitulation and agreement have nothing to do with manners or courtesy.  Thank you, please, your welcome, yes ma'am, no ma'am, yes sir, no sir, may I, holding a door--those are things that are mannerly and courteous.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pen on April 23, 2011, 09:37:51 am
1Glitterati, please elaborate. Where did ST say that saying "no" to an older person was not well-mannered or courteous? I'm so confused; I thought ST was discussing inconsiderate or thoughtless behavior.

Confusion is my middle name these days, sorry. Help?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 23, 2011, 09:47:49 am
Thanks, G.: I think it can be "some people" not necessarily "older people"...(speaking.  :)) There are still some terribly authoritarian young parents. And I do believe that in generations past the "children should be seen and not heard" caused terrible issues. My kids (now far from that) got to disagree but they did not get to tear us apart verbally or tear the house apart with tantrums. Someplace there is a middle road, I hope. First the pendulum swings way over to kids cowering and not daring to have or state an opinion or, above all else, disagree...to the pendulum swinging way too far over in the other direction. That's in some cases but not all, of course in both instances. (MHO.)
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: 1Glitterati on April 23, 2011, 12:00:08 pm
Quote from: Pen on April 23, 2011, 09:37:51 am
1Glitterati, please elaborate. Where did ST say that saying "no" to an older person was not well-mannered or courteous? I'm so confused; I thought ST was discussing inconsiderate or thoughtless behavior.

Confusion is my middle name these days, sorry. Help?


I could have been clearer---I have a harder time with posting now that I can't go back and grammar fix or add or delete sentences.  I tend to write in a stream of consciousness style and then clean it up.  Sorry...drove off on a tangent.

ST did not say saying no was...but I do see a great many people of older generations who do think that simply by virtue of their age and role in a persons life, that if they aren't agreed with that they are being disrespected.  Age doesn't buy agreement in and of itself.  It may have in the past...but it doesn't now.  I don't see disagreement in and of itself as discourteous or rude--and I've personally experienced many older people who do.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rejected on April 23, 2011, 12:34:20 pm
It does sound as though your DIL may have some control issues, but I think some things may account for it.
1. She's a new mom and I've learned from observing all my siblings & friends with their firstborns that they are extra cautious, uptight, they have in their head a certain way of doing things and will eventually learn to lighten up and relax more.
2. It seems as though you and her husband talk(your DS) quite a bit about her and some of it is negative. She could be resisting you because of this as well. I just have to say that if my DH and my MIL were talking about me in this way I'd be upset to with both of them. Just a few examples:

"I asked DS if she had decided to take baby to daycare, would she have suddenly demanded that go to her house instead? "

"I know that I'll be walking on eggshells - and have already discussed this with DS"

"We laughed at that "rule," told DS in no uncertain terms that a) we never planned on being there with her; b) she could make a rule for us to be there, we would not show up; and c) what was she thinking, duh!!!! But guess who did end up in the delivery room with her?  Yep, her parents.  We didn't care one way or the other, but DS was laughing, and rubbed it in big time, saying, "Hmmm, guess your rule got overruled!!""

"She mentioned to DS that one of the issues of family watching the baby was that she couldn't fire family if she wasn't happy.  DS told me and I replied, "Oh, she absolutely can!  If she doesn't like the way I watch that child, she is open to fire me . . . but it works both ways.  If I'm unhappy, I can quit as well."  I don't think DS thought of that."

"Incidentally, DS thinks it's another of her over the top rules, and hmmmmmm, he's the father."

Maybe next time you have something negative to say about your DIL(which is completely normal and understandable), talk to your own DH or on here instead of coming between your DIL and her husband.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rejected on April 23, 2011, 12:40:26 pm
also, sorry forgot to add this, the next time your DS comes to you to complain about his wife (if he does) tell him to work it out with her and that you don't want to get involved.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 23, 2011, 01:09:28 pm
Rejected, that is a good point. Most people don't know it on here, but I left DH early on in our marriage due to the pow-wows that went on at my expense. It wasn't for very long, and while I would never ask him to cut his mom off, I was willing to cut him off for it.

I had purchased bed clothes for our guest bedroom when I was home and he threw a fit. I said, "Your parents need something on the bed when they visit." He felt that $120 was too much to spend on a comforter and sheets. I, then, unfortunately, needed a $130 batter for my old VW (dear old Bess).  He called yet again and we had a fight.  At some point, he got the impression that I married him for money. You know, the $600 paycheck every two weeks that Airmen get? Yeah, that kind of money. I guess he forgot that I left my mortgage job at the height of the refinance boom to move overseas in the first place.

I received a phone call from MIL: "DH told me about your finances. I was happy to coach him through the right way to handle things. I told him what to say and how to say it. I thought I would call you as well and tell you that I believe my 34 years of marriage experience really qualifies me as an expert on these things..." Side bar: my parents are divorced; not that I'd ask their advice about my marriage even if they had stayed together.... "I can coach you too. Why don't we go over some of the things you don't like about DH and I can tell you how to handle it? I am excellent at resolving conflict."

I got off the phone and said, "Thank you." For the love of all things good, I don't know how I managed that.

1. DH still handed it pretty poorly; so her coaching skills were awful.
2. I don't need a referee.
3. What is one supposed to do when their car batter keeps dying and they have to drive the interstate? Cross your fingers that someone will be nice enough to give you a jump?
4. Does it ever sound like a good idea to tell a mom the bad things about her son? Would she believe you? Doubt it.

I flew back to Italy, packed up my things and moved into a hotel until I could save up money for an airline ticket home. A few days later, he actually FOUND the hotel I was in somehow and told me he was sorry. He said he has NO idea where he got that idea that I was a cash cow. I said, "I guarantee that if I got my mother involved in our issues, she'd be a bigger cheerleader. The only time I'll need that is when I've already decided that I'm out the door. I was secure enough in my marriage that I don't need one of those...were you?"

I trust him enough to think that it was an honest mistake, not an ongoing thing. So far, I think he's held that end of the bargain.

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pen on April 23, 2011, 01:20:01 pm
Quote from: Rejected on April 23, 2011, 12:40:26 pm
also, sorry forgot to add this, the next time your DS comes to you to complain about his wife (if he does) tell him to work it out with her and that you don't want to get involved.


Yes! As tempting as it may be to jump on in with complaints about DIL or to listen to him rant about her, do not do it. Even if you suspect DIL is badmouthing you to DS, as ours was, don't go there. Take the high road and hope your ethical behavior will inspire DIL to do the same.

When our DS came to us, livid about DIL's snotty behavior towards us, we told him we were not going to discuss it with him and that he had to work it out with his wife because she came first now. Since then she hasn't been more accepting of us, just more tolerant. We'll take it!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 23, 2011, 01:24:18 pm
Quote from: 1Glitterati on April 23, 2011, 12:00:08 pm
Quote from: Pen on April 23, 2011, 09:37:51 am
1Glitterati, please elaborate. Where did ST say that saying "no" to an older person was not well-mannered or courteous? I'm so confused; I thought ST was discussing inconsiderate or thoughtless behavior.

Confusion is my middle name these days, sorry. Help?


I could have been clearer---I have a harder time with posting now that I can't go back and grammar fix or add or delete sentences.  I tend to write in a stream of consciousness style and then clean it up.  Sorry...drove off on a tangent.

ST did not say saying no was...but I do see a great many people of older generations who do think that simply by virtue of their age and role in a persons life, that if they aren't agreed with that they are being disrespected.  Age doesn't buy agreement in and of itself.  It may have in the past...but it doesn't now.  I don't see disagreement in and of itself as discourteous or rude--and I've personally experienced many older people who do.


I agree with this statement.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 23, 2011, 01:25:46 pm
Pen's approach is perfect.

When in doubt, I draw myself +/- charts.

Me not saying anything:

+ for MIL: no need to kick her when she's down in my book
+ for me: the high road is so incredibly satisfying
+ for me: the stuff I don't mention comes to light anyhow. Patiences is a virtue.
+ for DH: he's not in the middle.

Me saying something:

- for MIL: it makes her looks bad.
- for me: it also makes me look bad.
+ for me: I felt like I really had to get it off my chest!   ::)
- for me: I felt guilty for saying it after the fact. 
- for DH: he's inescapably in the middle.

Eh, you get the gist. In-laws do involve a certain amount of politicking. The best road is the one that makes everyone look good, no matter how much you want to make the other party look bad.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pen on April 23, 2011, 01:52:06 pm
Quote from: SassyDI on April 23, 2011, 01:24:18 pm
Quote from: 1Glitterati on April 23, 2011, 12:00:08 pm
Quote from: Pen on April 23, 2011, 09:37:51 am
1Glitterati, please elaborate. Where did ST say that saying "no" to an older person was not well-mannered or courteous? I'm so confused; I thought ST was discussing inconsiderate or thoughtless behavior.

Confusion is my middle name these days, sorry. Help?


I could have been clearer---I have a harder time with posting now that I can't go back and grammar fix or add or delete sentences.  I tend to write in a stream of consciousness style and then clean it up.  Sorry...drove off on a tangent.

ST did not say saying no was...but I do see a great many people of older generations who do think that simply by virtue of their age and role in a persons life, that if they aren't agreed with that they are being disrespected.  Age doesn't buy agreement in and of itself.  It may have in the past...but it doesn't now.  I don't see disagreement in and of itself as discourteous or rude--and I've personally experienced many older people who do.


I agree with this statement.


By the same token, there are young people who outright dismiss anything anyone from an older generation has to say even if it has merit. My DIL announced one day that she "hates old people!" No one specifically (besides us.) She didn't give a reason, just said she hated old people.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 23, 2011, 03:12:38 pm
Quote from: Pen on April 23, 2011, 01:20:01 pm
Quote from: Rejected on April 23, 2011, 12:40:26 pm
also, sorry forgot to add this, the next time your DS comes to you to complain about his wife (if he does) tell him to work it out with her and that you don't want to get involved.


Yes! As tempting as it may be to jump on in with complaints about DIL or to listen to him rant about her, do not do it. Even if you suspect DIL is badmouthing you to DS, as ours was, don't go there. Take the high road and hope your ethical behavior will inspire DIL to do the same.

When our DS came to us, livid about DIL's snotty behavior towards us, we told him we were not going to discuss it with him and that he had to work it out with his wife because she came first now. Since then she hasn't been more accepting of us, just more tolerant. We'll take it!


I have to say the DIL does know whats going on if they don't thats an even bigger problem.  My DH knows pretty much everything I tell my mother about our lives.  If he didn't then that would be keeping a secert and that is not healthy for a marriage.  I think it is wise to tell them keep it in the marriage.  I am sure when DS is being snotty his ILs hopefully will tell the DIL the same thing. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 23, 2011, 03:16:34 pm
The last setence was not ment to come across as rude just saying all is fair in love and war.  And I think DIL need to live by the same standards as their hubby's do.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 23, 2011, 03:18:44 pm
Quote from: SassyDI on April 23, 2011, 03:12:38 pm
I am sure when DS is being snotty his ILs hopefully will tell the DIL the same thing.

Huh?  I'm not sure how I was suppose to read that
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 23, 2011, 03:21:39 pm
Quote from: Laurie on April 23, 2011, 03:18:44 pm
Quote from: SassyDI on April 23, 2011, 03:12:38 pm
I am sure when DS is being snotty his ILs hopefully will tell the DIL the same thing.

Huh?  I'm not sure how I was suppose to read that


Just though my last sentence might have come off snotty that is all.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 23, 2011, 03:32:44 pm
ST, would you speak to your DIL the same as you did DS in this situation? It is kind of confusing to me that you would speak to him about it solely, as you're right, there are two parents. 

I also tend to think this is the type of situation where you might have won the battle but won't win the war.  When I asked you earlier why you wanted to babysit the grandchild to get a better grasp on your perspective, I thought it sounded like that you thought it was something you could do to be helpful...but you could take it or leave it.  Reading more of your posts, it came across more to me as control.  Maybe you don't mean it that way but I can't imagine fighting so hard and voraciously over a decision that another married couple made.  It simply doesn't make sense to me. 

Holly, you bring up a really good point.  I'm not sure as a wife how I would handle my husband allowing this kind of intrusion into our marriage, certainly it would raise a lot of red flags for me. 

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 23, 2011, 03:35:41 pm
gottcha sdi... thanks for clarifying .. and you're right the same philosophy should apply to all involved.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: 1Glitterati on April 23, 2011, 04:45:25 pm
Quote from: Pen on April 23, 2011, 01:52:06 pm



By the same token, there are young people who outright dismiss anything anyone from an older generation has to say even if it has merit. My DIL announced one day that she "hates old people!" No one specifically (besides us.) She didn't give a reason, just said she hated old people.
[/quote]

I won't disagree with that.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 23, 2011, 05:39:26 pm
Can we just agree that ther are "some" of everything out there? Sending love...but I am weary...
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 23, 2011, 07:07:58 pm
 :-[ :-[ :-[ I hate "old people drivers" when they are doing 15 under the speed limit! LOL  :D

I don't remember who made the comment about Dont' trash talk DIL even though we know she is trash talking us to her DH....

My thoughts on that. NEVER trash talk someone to their spouse-- No telling DS that DIL is horrible or DD that SIL is horrible. NOT Cool in my book.
However, what happens between two married people (DS/DIL or SIL/DD) should stay between them. If a SIL/DIL feels the need to share something negative about their DM/DF/MIL/FIL then he or she has ever right to do it. Being a married couple is about blending yourselves into one. If DH thinks that my mom is being overly clingy at some point (I probably won't think so) I want him to TELL me that he thinks we should have her back off slightly. So, I guess it may seem like a double standard, but different types of relationships (Parent/Child vs Spouses) have different "rules" and what applies for one doesn't apply for the other. Just MHO.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 23, 2011, 07:47:18 pm
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on April 23, 2011, 07:07:58 pm
:-[ :-[ :-[ I hate "old people drivers" when they are doing 15 under the speed limit! LOL  :D


Hey I drive a Super Sport... so I hate anyone who is even doing the speed limit, much less 15 mph under it :)

It's all about mutual respect isn't it Adil
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 23, 2011, 07:52:48 pm
Bashing is a lot different than raising an issue.

I don't bring up my ils to dh b/c he knows them better than me. That means I am probably but telling him anything he doesn't already know. Also, even if it is the truth, it hurts his feelings. I know how I feel when oriole talk bad about my family to me, and I am schooled on all of their quirks.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 23, 2011, 07:59:27 pm
Sometime bashing's different than raising an issue and sometimes it isn't. To me, it depends on how it's presented and taken.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 23, 2011, 08:03:00 pm
After 30+ years of marriage and blended families.. we are not touchy at all when speaking about my parents or we are speaking about his ... I think that comes in time... I actually do more for my in-laws then either of their own two sons.. I've been in their lives as the wife of their son, longer then he was in their lives as just a son.. the lines begin to blur with time.

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 23, 2011, 08:04:31 pm
Quote from: luise.volta on April 23, 2011, 07:59:27 pm
Sometime bashing's different than raising an issue and sometimes it isn't. To me, it depends on how it's presented and taken.


Yes but you can't always guarantee what the outcome will be.. no matter what your intentions might have been. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Kennedy on April 23, 2011, 09:43:58 pm
Quote from: Laurie on April 23, 2011, 08:03:00 pm
After 30+ years of marriage and blended families.. we are not touchy at all when speaking about my parents or we are speaking about his ... I think that comes in time... I actually do more for my in-laws then either of their own two sons.. I've been in their lives as the wife of their son, longer then he was in their lives as just a son.. the lines begin to blur with time.


This is us Laurie, LOL We are a VERY blurry couple!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sheen on April 24, 2011, 12:52:50 am
Just to play devil's advocate though, don't you think it is somewhat normal for our adult kids to be able to bring up subjects pertaining to their spouses . I mean for years you have spoken to them about the people they date, their relationships etc if you have had a good communication base with them.  I don't think the trouble is in the listening end , I think the trouble starts when we try to intervene . Any of my kids can come to me with any problem, if only to sound off but rarely do I ever give advice on how to handle it or get in the middle of their problems. I also think it is unwritten law that dil's should tread cautiously in complaining about our sons or sil about our daughters, regardless what kind of relationship they have with their ils.  In some ways I think it breeds resentment and causes trouble.
Steps off soap box to avoid the tomatoes being thrown lol
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 05:12:51 am
Idk, many times, dh' s parents will use what db has said out of frustration about his wife to describe her. If parents can leave that information   out of their character summaries, then sure.

I think the problem arises when the listening party interprets gripes as serious problems instead if putting them in perspective.

I don't bring up the ils anymore because I wasn't telling dh anything he wasn't aware of.  I know the gripes that have been spoken about me weren't eye openers for dh.   He felt disrespected by his parents. I can only assume that it works that way when I do it too.

I would like a relationship with my ils where we can talk to one another directly. I suppose that will come in time.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sun_is_still_shining on April 24, 2011, 05:30:19 am
Ahem Holly!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 05:33:15 am
See, this is where I differ too.  At first it never crossed my mind to say anything about his parents -- until it became apparent that he didn't know what they were doing was wrong.  Again, my MIL is not a well woman (she has been diagnosed.)  So perhaps this approach doesn't work too well with everyone else but I did point out abnormal or abusive actions.  DH has said that he is so used to her and used to tuning her out that he doesn't always recognize what she's saying or doing and sometimes it's just easier to let her do what she wants. 

So for us, it has become a bonding thing.  DH knows I joke about my parents all the time, well I can do it to their face too lol. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: HollyB on April 24, 2011, 05:49:51 am
Normal don't have to mean good.  listening to complaints is interfering.  listen to your kid go sound off about your Dil and now the MIL will see her different.  you show your son its okay to sound off about his spouse to people who still have to look at her face tommorow and for years.   Now when ever you try to talk your Dil you know her problems but she don't know you know. Now You have to always keep track.  Theirs your resentment and trouble.  unwritten law is not to listen to someone whine about people in your family that you still want to spend time with.  Its called Respect.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 24, 2011, 06:43:32 am
I dunno... right or wrong the door is open if my kids want to talk, whether it's advice or just a sounding board that they are searching for.. I'll be there.  Sometimes all our kids need is a sympathetic ear, or reassurance that they are doing a great job.

I know that my dil speaks to her mother daily.. there is no way pieces of their the couples personal life is not coming into play in those conversations.  I've seen it with my own daughter as well.. she might only be engaged but they are blending their lives together at this time.. and I think that her father and I are capable of offering sound advice when asked.. at what point do I slam the door shut and say take it to your husband, your wife, your whatever?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 06:49:56 am
Quote from: Sheen on April 24, 2011, 12:52:50 am
Just to play devil's advocate though, don't you think it is somewhat normal for our adult kids to be able to bring up subjects pertaining to their spouses . I mean for years you have spoken to them about the people they date, their relationships etc if you have had a good communication base with them.  I don't think the trouble is in the listening end , I think the trouble starts when we try to intervene . Any of my kids can come to me with any problem, if only to sound off but rarely do I ever give advice on how to handle it or get in the middle of their problems. I also think it is unwritten law that dil's should tread cautiously in complaining about our sons or sil about our daughters, regardless what kind of relationship they have with their ils.  In some ways I think it breeds resentment and causes trouble.
Steps off soap box to avoid the tomatoes being thrown lol


Depends on what it is and how bad or why they are talking to their parents.  If the DS/DD is trying to get advice for a super tough issue sure but he or she needs to let the other know they are going to the other parents after all there should be no secerts in a marriage.  I mean or their being abused I can see that too.(this is about the only one I can think of where you should keep the secert)  But calling ones mother to tattle on their spouse is not ok.  Then you got MIL over here laughing about it and the SonIL/dIL is either in the dark or knows and the couple is now fighting. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 06:55:47 am
Laurie, I think when it becomes something you wouldn't tell to the other party, that's the line.  It's probably going to be different for everyone too and depending on exactly what's going on. 

I've often felt that when MIL complains about me to DH and others that if it is not important enough to tell me, than it's not important enough in general to even be discussed. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 07:01:01 am
Quote from: Laurie on April 24, 2011, 06:43:32 am
I dunno... right or wrong the door is open if my kids want to talk, whether it's advice or just a sounding board that they are searching for.. I'll be there.  Sometimes all our kids need is a sympathetic ear, or reassurance that they are doing a great job.

I know that my dil speaks to her mother daily.. there is no way pieces of their the couples personal life is not coming into play in those conversations.  I've seen it with my own daughter as well.. she might only be engaged but they are blending their lives together at this time.. and I think that her father and I are capable of offering sound advice when asked.. at what point do I slam the door shut and say take it to your husband, your wife, your whatever?


Again it depends on the issue.  Will it help their relationship with there spouse?  Will it help your relationship with SonIL or DIL? If its no to both them its off limits.  Leave and Cleave as Doctor Phill would say its time to learn to sort it out between each other.  Also depends on the mother to and how she will take it.  Is she the type that just listens and doesn't react to what is said?  Or is she the type that find happiness in her SONIL/DIL's faults?    Last what is the intent on talking about this?  If its to get advice?  Or is it to in a sense make fun of the spouse. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 24, 2011, 07:52:36 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 07:01:01 am
Again it depends on the issue.  Will it help their relationship with there spouse?  Will it help your relationship with SonIL or DIL? If its no to both them its off limits.  Leave and Cleave as Doctor Phill would say its time to learn to sort it out between each other.  Also depends on the mother to and how she will take it.  Is she the type that just listens and doesn't react to what is said?  Or is she the type that find happiness in her SONIL/DIL's faults?    Last what is the intent on talking about this?  If its to get advice?  Or is it to in a sense make fun of the spouse.


Yeah well I think Dr Phil needs to visit a shrink himself :)  Seriously I do.. and the "Leave and Cleave" has approximate 20 page discussion on these boards.

I don't see my son or many others contacting their mothers in order to degrade their spouses.. if this was the case, talking to Mom and Dad should be the last of their worries.

Here is a true life example..so you guys tell me.  I was in the process of moving, my huge entertainment center is one that my son always loved.. so I offered to give it to the kids.. this was not a valuable piece but was pretty.. matched their house, was something my son had once mentioned he'd love to own.  So I gave it to the kids.. everyone is happy. 

I had decided to sell my dining set, pretty antique draw-leaf table and chairs.. I said if you guys can use it (their table is being held together with a clamp.. no lie) I said you may want to eventually change out the chairs for something not soooo victorian.    DIL calls the day they are placing the entertainment center in a truck and son tells her about the dining set.. she calls my cell and says well if you are just trying to get rid of your stuff we'll take it and put it in the resale shop.  Ok my end of the conversation consisted of a sound that sounded to her like "click".  Kinda sounded that way on my end too. 

My son took the next call and said my parents aren't trying to give you junk (cleaned it up) furniture they are trying to allow us to have better until we can afford to buy our own... after that of course there was a conversation... I apologized and said that I did not know that she was that against 'used' furniture I guess since I never looked at my expensive antique pieces as used I assumed she wouldn't either.  He stated that she isn't against used furniture, she is against my used furniture.  With that we understood everything, it was clear precise and laid out. 

So was he 'wrong' for having this conversation with us?  Now the day she piped up and said oh if you aren't going to use that 42" flat screen we'll take it.. yes I was wrong for saying.. sorry you don't want our leftovers .. yes I was.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 07:52:56 am
I think a telling example of a line bring crossed when it comes to communication with the parents is when it becomes two against one. There is no room for three in a marriage, except in Big Love!

When the child and parent are using the communication as fodder, which I have read examples in here....that is where the problem lies.

Even if the other party doesn't know they are talked about in that manner, it is undermining the communication in the marriage between the spouses. I wouldn't feel loved by my husband at all if  that was going on behind my back.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 08:20:43 am
Laurie, that sounds totally different to me. I know there was a phone involved, but it was the direct communication between you and her that your DS had to step in for. At that point, you weren't getting anywhere with her. That is the perfect time to step in. Plus that communication wasn't really going on behind her back.

It is the examples in Rejected's post I think a DIL would be afraid of.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 08:27:55 am
Quote from: Holly on April 24, 2011, 08:20:43 am
Laurie, that sounds totally different to me. I know there was a phone involved, but it was the direct communication between you and her that your DS had to step in for. At that point, you weren't getting anywhere with her. That is the perfect time to step in. Plus that communication wasn't really going on behind her back.

It is the examples in Rejected's post I think a DIL would be afraid of.


I agree.  Also think of it this way did you like when you DH went to his own mother back when you were their age?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sheen on April 24, 2011, 09:12:19 am
Laurie,   I laughed out loud when I read "Now the day she piped up and said oh if you aren't going to use that 42" flat screen we'll take it.. yes I was wrong for saying.. sorry you don't want our leftovers .. yes I was. "  I can actually hear one of my kids saying that lol.   As far as taking second hand stuff, I think the perception changes as we get older.  In my younger years, I can remember after dong my living room over, all I wanted was new, modern furniture to put in it. Push forward twenty years and I would not even look at it. Unless it dates back to at least early 19th century, I don't even want to know about it these days.
 
In a perfect world, I think the whole marriage with perfect honesty is a beautiful thought but quite frankly I don't think I know of one marriage that actually follows those lines.  There are always some things that either you are speaking to your girlfriend or relative about that perhaps you have not mentioned to your significant other . I am not speaking of major or life changing things but in any relationship there are just some things that either you forgot to mention to your s/o or chose to not speak about it. 
When it comes to my kids, I will listen to any vent or concern they have regardless of what they are  speaking of , and if there is a problem with whoever they are in a relationship with , I will advise them to discuss it with them as well.   I never am the one to bring a problem to them  about their  significant others, however so maybe thats the difference and I would not expect their significant others to bring me a problem about one of my own. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pen on April 24, 2011, 09:19:48 am
It's the deep down marriage-shattering stuff that I don't want to discuss with DS or DIL, to their faces or behind their backs. When they wed, we who were witnessing their vows also vowed to not "tear assunder" or words to that effect. I take vows very seriously and am proud that DS does too, so even if his method of saving his marriage meant his FOO was cut off I'd have to honor that. It would seriously hurt me and my family. I'd be very angry and upset with the situation and blisteringly livid with DIL & her FOO, but I truly believe that his marriage comes first now and I would back up his decision.

We actually came close to this happening as many of you may remember. DS vented about DIL's hatred of us (no specific reason or anything we'd done, she & her FOO just didn't like us), we listened for a bit and then told him we loved him but he had to work it out with his wife. It was one of the worst days, or should I say months of my life, waiting to hear something from DS. Luckily DS stood up for us and DIL backed down. I've been told DH & I are appreciated for our "hands off" style, and I guess that's some consolation. Wish we could sometimes be front and center like DIL's FOO is, but oh well...
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 09:28:18 am
Quote from: Pen on April 24, 2011, 09:19:48 am
It's the deep down marriage-shattering stuff that I don't want to discuss with DS or DIL, to their faces or behind their backs. When they wed, we who were witnessing their vows also vowed to not "tear assunder" or words to that effect. I take vows very seriously and am proud that DS does too, so even if his method of saving his marriage meant his FOO was cut off I'd have to honor that. It would seriously hurt me and my family. I'd be very angry and upset with the situation and blisteringly livid with DIL & her FOO, but I truly believe that his marriage comes first now and I would back up his decision.

We actually came close to this happening as many of you may remember. DS vented about DIL's hatred of us (no specific reason or anything we'd done, she & her FOO just didn't like us), we listened for a bit and then told him we loved him but he had to work it out with his wife. It was one of the worst days, or should I say months of my life, waiting to hear something from DS. Luckily DS stood up for us and DIL backed down. I've been told DH & I are appreciated for our "hands off" style, and I guess that's some consolation. Wish we could sometimes be front and center like DIL's FOO is, but oh well...


Our biggest problem are boundries with his FIL and his wife.  They try to cross them so his wife has not seen DD for about a year and half.  FIL did see her once since then but even he has been about 6 months.  They won't respect our boudries we have with DD so they don't see her.  It wasn't an easy choice more for DH then I(DH's family never really gave me a chance before they judged me) but it was what we felt was best for the situation. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pen on April 24, 2011, 09:49:59 am
Oh, the dreaded "B" word! I know we all have the right to put boundaries in place but the term bothers me. That old cowboy song comes to mind: "Don't Fence Me In."

But seriously SassyDI, what boundaries did you set up and which ones did MIL try to cross? I know this is an important issue.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 10:21:25 am
Quote from: Pen on April 24, 2011, 09:49:59 am
Oh, the dreaded "B" word! I know we all have the right to put boundaries in place but the term bothers me. That old cowboy song comes to mind: "Don't Fence Me In."

But seriously SassyDI, what boundaries did you set up and which ones did MIL try to cross? I know this is an important issue.


A.  She is not my MIL Dh doesn't consider her his stepmother
B.  She want to be Nana or Step Grandma.  But my mother is Nana and DH's who passed away is the only Grandma on his side in our eyes.  Lets just say it became an uncomfortable situation with them and her name.  They want to let us call her what we call her they will call her what they want.  And the rest of the fam can choose to call her what they want to, to DD.  Sorry but that is  not happing.  We all have to be on the same page not to confuse her.  So until they respect yes our boundries they will not see her.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 10:27:56 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 10:21:25 am
Quote from: Pen on April 24, 2011, 09:49:59 am
Oh, the dreaded "B" word! I know we all have the right to put boundaries in place but the term bothers me. That old cowboy song comes to mind: "Don't Fence Me In."

But seriously SassyDI, what boundaries did you set up and which ones did MIL try to cross? I know this is an important issue.


A.  She is not my MIL Dh doesn't consider her his stepmother
B.  She want to be Nana or Step Grandma.  But my mother is Nana and DH's who passed away is the only Grandma on his side in our eyes.  Lets just say it became an uncomfortable situation with them and her name.  They want to let us call her what we call her they will call her what they want.  And the rest of the fam can choose to call her what they want to, to DD.  Sorry but that is  not happing.  We all have to be on the same page not to confuse her.  So until they respect yes our boundries they will not see her.
Opps Who's mother passed away
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 10:37:19 am
That story sounds really familiar to me, Sassy...I think I've read it before. Somewhere. On another site or something.

A name is boundaries?

Check out the post "Grandparent's Name" under the Grandchildren section.

A lot of kids call both g-mas by the same name and they're not confused one bit about it. I have had to toe this line with my mother b/c she had a name and now MIL wants that name too (although, MIL has changed her name 8 times so far...I thinks she's having an identity crisis). I really wish it wouldn't matter so much. I don't want to deal with the issue with my MIL or my mother. I've decided they're both going to be called "Faux Ma" if they keep it up.

But, I digress.

I'm not willing to keep DD from them over a name. I  think it is nice your non-stepMIL wants to be called a name by the baby. It shows the baby is important to her. The name issue sounds trivial.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 10:45:49 am
Sorry, I should have made sure to call you SassyDI.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 10:47:44 am
Quote from: Holly on April 24, 2011, 10:37:19 am
That story sounds really familiar to me, Sassy...I think I've read it before. Somewhere. On another site or something.

A name is boundaries?

Check out the post "Grandparent's Name" under the Grandchildren section.

A lot of kids call both g-mas by the same name and they're not confused one bit about it. I have had to toe this line with my mother b/c she had a name and now MIL wants that name too (although, MIL has changed her name 8 times so far...I thinks she's having an identity crisis). I really wish it wouldn't matter so much. I don't want to deal with the issue with my MIL or my mother. I've decided they're both going to be called "Faux Ma" if they keep it up.

But, I digress.

I'm not willing to keep DD from them over a name. I  think it is nice your non-stepMIL wants to be called a name by the baby. It shows the baby is important to her. The name issue sounds trivial.


And we can agree to disgree.  Its not just about a name there is more to it then that.  I am sure if you read it on another site it was me.  Its not trival in my eyes.  Again as I said to the OP what seems trivial to some is not to other.  The child is not important to her unless she is Nana she has all but said that to DH. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 10:58:27 am
It is okay that it is important to you. I never said you were wrong. Why is it important enough for cutoff?

I believe that when someone says "the child is not important to me b/c of X" or "I'll never touch the child again because of X" they need to be shown just how ridiculous that statement is immediately after they say it.

Something like, "Well, that's okay she's not important to you, she'll always be important to me no matter what she calls me," or, "Oh, that's okay. You'll still be important to her even if she's not important to you."

People say over the top things like that to hurt, but rarely are they actually true.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 24, 2011, 11:57:33 am
I'm one of the ones who said that we called all my grandparents grandma or grandpa.. both sides.. and never had an issue or confusion. 

But I think that what you're saying Sdl is that it's not the grandma title but that you do not want to consider her a grandparent at all, am I reading you correctly?  I can see this happening with step parents if there was never a relationship to begin with.  How do you plan on having your children refer to her?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 02:37:28 pm
Quote from: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 10:21:25 am
Quote from: Pen on April 24, 2011, 09:49:59 am
Oh, the dreaded "B" word! I know we all have the right to put boundaries in place but the term bothers me. That old cowboy song comes to mind: "Don't Fence Me In."

But seriously SassyDI, what boundaries did you set up and which ones did MIL try to cross? I know this is an important issue.


A.  She is not my MIL Dh doesn't consider her his stepmother
B.  She want to be Nana or Step Grandma.  But my mother is Nana and DH's who passed away is the only Grandma on his side in our eyes.  Lets just say it became an uncomfortable situation with them and her name.  They want to let us call her what we call her they will call her what they want.  And the rest of the fam can choose to call her what they want to, to DD.  Sorry but that is  not happing.  We all have to be on the same page not to confuse her.  So until they respect yes our boundries they will not see her.


Does your DH like his stepmother?  Was there background issues or is it more of an age thing?

We've never had any confusion either, DD calls my stepmom a version of grandma, it works for us.  Although we don't really have any issues either with her.  I don't know your child feels or will feel (how old?) but my DD wouldn't like not calling my stepmom by her first name or Ms. ____.  Well, actually I would never allow her to be called by her first name and Ms.____ doesn't sound like family.  But maybe that's what you're going for?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 05:52:07 pm
In all honesty it has nothing to do with not liking her(though we do not get along) I wouldn't want her to be Grandma if I did like her.  For me as not speaking for my DH I don't believe in Step Grandma roles.(DH does have his reasons too)  My Grandfather remarried when I was a child and I called her by her first name no Ms infront of it.  There was never an issue.  We tried comeing up with nicknames for her that was not Grandma or Nana and according to them no matter what we come up with its not anything but out of hate.  Not bending over backwards if the door will be slammed in  my face every time.   She will not call her self anything but Nana and well that is not up to her.  We rightfully had no say in who he married and they rightfully  have no say in what she is called to our child.  She actually tries to also compare herself to my husbands mother which no one can ever messure up to in my DH's eyes.  She also tries to tell DH his mother would be ashamed of him another big no no.  The woman tries to force herself on people and it comes across at least to me as fake.  I don't handle fake people well at all.  I was raised in a house where we called people by their first name I don't see it as rude at all.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 06:03:37 pm
When I was going down south to see my Aunt, I had to say "Yes, Ma'am" or "No, Sir." I had to say that b/c even though it wasn't rude in the northeast to just say "Yes" it was rude to them.

I can see why you might think she is fake, although it sounds like she would just like to feel like apart of your FIL's family. I can see where a first name basis might not be acceptable to her. It wasn't to my mother, and the grandchildren in question are actually her spouse's ex-stepdaughter, not even a current one. 

It may not be rude to you  that your child calls people by their first name, but many people do think it is rude. That's a pretty big part of our culture in the U.S. (are you in the U.S.?). There are perceptions that are made by children calling people by their first names (not so much in our generation....I saw your age on another post, but in generations older than us, this is a really big deal), but in other ways.

I would feel very left out and very hurt if the husband I married was called a name by my grandchild and I was just "Holly." I do think there is a solution to your problem somewhere in compromise. She doesn't necessarily need to fulfill a full-blown grandma role for a name. It's like you're saying she doesn't really count. Anyhow, good luck, I'm sure the right answer is out there somewhere.

FAFE? Where are you? You're name is a classic example of this. You are FAFE to your GKs, and Aunt Fafe to nieces and nephews.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 06:19:47 pm
By *his grandchild. Sorry, I can't edit.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: FAFE on April 24, 2011, 06:21:50 pm
Holly, I am in Georgia.  Today one of my sisters was here for Easter dinner.  She still calls me Fafe Jean! 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 06:24:57 pm
LOL, thanks Fafe!

I was just pointing out that there might be an acceptable alternative. Your name means grandma to some and to others it means something else. It still is really special.

SassyDI, if she ever dropped the "Nana" idea, is there a moniker you would find acceptable for her aside from a first name?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 06:35:57 pm
Quote from: Holly on April 24, 2011, 06:24:57 pm
LOL, thanks Fafe!

I was just pointing out that there might be an acceptable alternative. Your name means grandma to some and to others it means something else. It still is really special.

SassyDI, if she ever dropped the "Nana" idea, is there a moniker you would find acceptable for her aside from a first name?


As I said we tried that and she flat out refuses says its contrived.  All our names we picked are not out of love according to her but of hate.  One was I guess a name that made FIL mad because it was a 1940 Cartoon Characters which I did not know about being as I was not born until around 40 years later.  The name ment a kind person which I do not feel that way about her so I have to say I stepped up to compermise.  There idea of compermise is Step Grandma and nothing else.  Well sorry they don't get to decide we do after all we are the parents. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 24, 2011, 06:43:44 pm
How would you feel about allowing her "Grand" status, along with her name or a nickname, i.e. Grand-Fafe...?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 06:53:01 pm
That idea is nice.

I do think the name has to work for both of you. I wouldn't want to be referred and known for the rest of my life as a name I didn't like at all.

I think a lot of stepparents can be too pushy out of insecurity and a want/need to fit in with the family somehow. My stepdad has been pushy at times, but after almost 12 years, it's all worked out now.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 24, 2011, 07:07:56 pm
When I married Val he was 78. Five years later when his grandson got married...the wedding planner was seating us and asked who I was and I foolishly said..."Grandmother Luise." She looked at her list and said, "No, there is only Grandmother Dorothy .Oh, here you are! You're the woman who is with the Grandfather but that's OK, you can sit with him!"
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 07:13:14 pm
When my sort-of stepsister got married, her dad escorted his wife. Her mother, also married to another man was escorted by my stepdad (married to my stepmom) and introduced as Mr. and Mrs. (stepdad's last name)!

Classy. Mom handled it in stride, though. I know a bride does what a bride wants, and it is supposed to be a fairy tale, but apparently it is supposed to be total fantasy and nostalgia as well.

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 07:31:11 pm
Ok SassyDI, this is where the rubber meets the road imo.  You and DH can be "right" all you want about the name thing but try to think of where your FIL might think of you and his son.  Will it make your DH's relationship with his father better or worse?  That's what I would be asking myself

There are pangs with stepfamilies, most can pull it through though.  The ones who do usually have a give and take imo.

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 08:02:00 pm
Quote from: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 07:31:11 pm
Ok SassyDI, this is where the rubber meets the road imo.  You and DH can be "right" all you want about the name thing but try to think of where your FIL might think of you and his son.  Will it make your DH's relationship with his father better or worse?  That's what I would be asking myself

There are pangs with stepfamilies, most can pull it through though.  The ones who do usually have a give and take imo.


Same can be said to FIL.  I mean just because he is the father doesn't mean he doesn't have to give.   My DH and I have had to give into a lot of things.  His father pretty much always gets his way on everything.  As my FIL says "Whatever makes Dad happy."  Well sorry FIL needs to learn that sometimes he is not going to get what he wants.  And if we feel strong about something.  My DH is a quad injured when he was 16 years old that woman did more for him then most 16 year old mother's ever have to do for their children.(she was his caregiver).  So for my DH her being honored as Grandma is important.  I don't really like putting all this on here if they stumbled onto this site.  But whatever really don't care. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 08:02:47 pm
Correction as my BIL says "whatever makes dad happy."
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 24, 2011, 08:07:37 pm
Let's see, when I married my third husband, who was eight years younger than I was, my eldest son, Dwight, married his youngest sister. So...are you ready...my son was my brother in law, my future grand sons were my nephews and Dwight and I had the same mother in law!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 24, 2011, 08:09:47 pm
Quote from: luise.volta on April 24, 2011, 08:07:37 pm
Let's see, when I married my third husband, who was eight years younger than I was, my eldest son, Dwight, married his youngest sister. So...are you ready...my son was my brother in law, my future grand sons were my nephews and Dwight and I had the same mother in law!  ;D ;D ;D

That could make for one twisted story line Luise
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 08:12:34 pm
Hey, I'm not going to argue with you about your choice.  Yes, you and DH can control what your DD calls other people.  But you can't control what other people will think of you or how they respond/react to it.  That's my point.  I personally would think poorly of a family member in the same situation. 

My DH is stepfather to my DD, I will be extremely disappointed if she does not take his wishes into account (reasonably) when she makes decisions and if she does not show respect for me as her mother in choosing my own husband.  I think if we start getting into the "but we didn't choose her as dads wife" well guess what?  FIL didn't choose you as his sons wife...that's not a road I'd be willing to set foot on or set my childrens feet on.

I've known my stepmom for I think 20 years now (man, I feel really old.)  We haven't always loved each other or even liked each other.  But we did have one thing in common, love for my father.  I really don't care what my stepmom would want to be called, I would want my father to be happy around his wife and me.  I want to share holidays with them, I want my father to be happy.  I'm not going to live with him for the rest of his life, why would I want to exclude his wife? 

It hasn't been easy at times, although it's much easier over time.  My stepmom is the first one to call me when something happens, the first one at my house to watch my DD, the one who sends me flowers on the anniversary of my mothers passing (my father doesn't do that stuff.)  She wasn't always right and was insecure when they first married, but man, I can't imagine going out of my way to make her feel even worse. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 08:17:31 pm
LOL, Luise! That's funny.

SassyDI, you have your reasons, it is your choice. Sometimes, our choices hurt people, that's all. If you feel like you're giving us too much information, you don't have to post it.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 08:20:26 pm
Quote from: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 08:12:34 pm
Hey, I'm not going to argue with you about your choice.  Yes, you and DH can control what your DD calls other people.  But you can't control what other people will think of you or how they respond/react to it.  That's my point.  I personally would think poorly of a family member in the same situation. 

My DH is stepfather to my DD, I will be extremely disappointed if she does not take his wishes into account (reasonably) when she makes decisions and if she does not show respect for me as her mother in choosing my own husband.  I think if we start getting into the "but we didn't choose her as dads wife" well guess what?  FIL didn't choose you as his sons wife...that's not a road I'd be willing to set foot on or set my childrens feet on.

I've known my stepmom for I think 20 years now (man, I feel really old.)  We haven't always loved each other or even liked each other.  But we did have one thing in common, love for my father.  I really don't care what my stepmom would want to be called, I would want my father to be happy around his wife and me.  I want to share holidays with them, I want my father to be happy.  I'm not going to live with him for the rest of his life, why would I want to exclude his wife? 

It hasn't been easy at times, although it's much easier over time.  My stepmom is the first one to call me when something happens, the first one at my house to watch my DD, the one who sends me flowers on the anniversary of my mothers passing (my father doesn't do that stuff.)  She wasn't always right and was insecure when they first married, but man, I can't imagine going out of my way to make her feel even worse.


Again its agree to disagree.  But I refuse to be the person who makes everyone else happy and get what they want.  And never have them do the same for me.  Just because two people get married doesn't make everyone one big happy family.  His family doesn't want me to be my own person but be like them.  I was not raised that way.  I was raised to stand up for what you believe in.  I am not going to just gave because my "alder" tells me he wants something there for I should do it.  GMIL throws that in my face all the time.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 08:24:42 pm
I think you're missing my point, SassyDI.  I'm not disagreeing with you, yes you can make your child call whoever you want, whatever you want.

You can't, however, choose how people will respond to it or how they will think of you and your husband. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: 1Glitterati on April 24, 2011, 08:25:39 pm
Quote from: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 08:12:34 pm
My DH is stepfather to my DD, I will be extremely disappointed if she does not take his wishes into account (reasonably) when she makes decisions and if she does not show respect for me as her mother in choosing my own husband.  I think if we start getting into the "but we didn't choose her as dads wife" well guess what?  FIL didn't choose you as his sons wife...that's not a road I'd be willing to set foot on or set my childrens feet on.

I've known my stepmom for I think 20 years now (man, I feel really old.)  We haven't always loved each other or even liked each other.  But we did have one thing in common, love for my father.  I really don't care what my stepmom would want to be called, I would want my father to be happy around his wife and me.  I want to share holidays with them, I want my father to be happy.  I'm not going to live with him for the rest of his life, why would I want to exclude his wife? 


I think part of it may also depend on when the step comes into your life.  I think there is a difference between coming in when you're a child and when you're and adult.  I know at this point in my life that if my parents weren't together and remarried...that then new person would simply be my father's wife or my mother's husband.  They wouldn't be a step-parent to me and they wouldn't be a grandparent to my kids.  I've got a mom and dad, and my kids have grandparents.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 08:28:52 pm
1Glitterati, my grandfather married later in life and we call his wife Gramma Janie.  No biggie.

I mean, if you're sibling divorces and then remarries, is their new spouse not an aunt or uncle?  Personally, I'd want my grandchild to feel as if they're going to their grandparents house, not just Grandpa and that woman lol.  But to each their own I suppose
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 08:31:33 pm
IDK, Glitter. I have gone through this I was married by the time my stepdad married my mom. I call him that b/c he loves my mom and she loves him and he keeps her happy. He doesn't actually do anything for me. But, I suppose a happy mom is reason enough to appreciate him.

And, what if said person just wanted to do nice things for your kids? That is what these non-GPs often do. It seems that some sort of name other than a first-name would be appropriate. I am also trying to raise my daughter to have a certain amount of respect and manners that are expected of her in the larger culture.

An alder is a birch tree. I found that interesting.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 24, 2011, 08:32:27 pm
I'm uncomfortable with your feeling uncomfortable about sharing all of of this and then saying you don't care. If you didn't care, you wouldn't feel uncomfortable, right? And you don't need to defend your position...we are just bouncing ideas your way because you asked. If you don't want to know what we think, don't ask for out input. Simple.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 08:38:13 pm
Hey, I just realized I and DD both call DH's grandma, Grandma lol.  It never occurred to me that there was only two Grandma's.  And I have a living great grandma on my side too that DH calls Grandma as well.

DD also calls DH's parents Ma and Pa like their other grandkids.  I think she'd feel the odd one out if she was the only kid calling them Mr. & Mrs.  And we definitely don't do the first name basis for children.  I also think it would even be more awkward for her if/when we have more children and she's even more isolated. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 08:41:28 pm
Pam, I agree. DB's kids called stepdad a certain  name, so I kept it consistent.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 08:51:42 pm
DD was about 4 I think when her father married his wife.  DD took right to her, we had some skirmishes but really nothing major.  Anyway, I picked her up from daycare one day and the teacher pulled me aside to talk about DD's two moms, she was asking if there were any books that I could bring in and is there anything they can do to help DD feel better in class etc.

It took me forever to catch on but the teacher had assumed that when DD was talking about her stepmom that she was actually my life partner lol.  DD was so excited to have two moms which is what I was kind of saying to her at the age, like trying to pump her up.  Isn't it so great, you're so lucky to have another mom etc.  And DD was eager to tell everyone how lucky she was.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 24, 2011, 08:54:42 pm
Pam, LOL! Hahaha. I'm glad your DD took to her stepmom.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 09:18:37 pm
Quote from: 1Glitterati on April 24, 2011, 08:25:39 pm
Quote from: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 08:12:34 pm
My DH is stepfather to my DD, I will be extremely disappointed if she does not take his wishes into account (reasonably) when she makes decisions and if she does not show respect for me as her mother in choosing my own husband.  I think if we start getting into the "but we didn't choose her as dads wife" well guess what?  FIL didn't choose you as his sons wife...that's not a road I'd be willing to set foot on or set my childrens feet on.

I've known my stepmom for I think 20 years now (man, I feel really old.)  We haven't always loved each other or even liked each other.  But we did have one thing in common, love for my father.  I really don't care what my stepmom would want to be called, I would want my father to be happy around his wife and me.  I want to share holidays with them, I want my father to be happy.  I'm not going to live with him for the rest of his life, why would I want to exclude his wife? 


I think part of it may also depend on when the step comes into your life.  I think there is a difference between coming in when you're a child and when you're and adult.  I know at this point in my life that if my parents weren't together and remarried...that then new person would simply be my father's wife or my mother's husband.  They wouldn't be a step-parent to me and they wouldn't be a grandparent to my kids.  I've got a mom and dad, and my kids have grandparents.


Yes Glitter your right. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 09:25:34 pm
Quote from: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 08:28:52 pm
1Glitterati, my grandfather married later in life and we call his wife Gramma Janie.  No biggie.

I mean, if you're sibling divorces and then remarries, is their new spouse not an aunt or uncle?  Personally, I'd want my grandchild to feel as if they're going to their grandparents house, not just Grandpa and that woman lol.  But to each their own I suppose


Yes they would be Aunt and uncle but thats not the same.  A Grandparent is a bloodline your spouses DH/DW is not.  So no its not the same thing.  If DH and I got a divorce I also feel that if we remarried that they would not be called mom and dad if we remarried.  Our DD has one father and one mother period.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 24, 2011, 09:26:21 pm
I agree, when I came into Val's family, I was 62 and he was 78. It wasn't about parenting. I was just surprised when it wasn't about seeing their dad happy.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 24, 2011, 09:28:47 pm
My kids and sort of kids solved that by calling Val..."Val-dad." They all adore him. Two of them drove over 100 miles today to wish him Happy Easter.  :)
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 09:29:46 pm
Quote from: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 09:25:34 pm
Quote from: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 08:28:52 pm
1Glitterati, my grandfather married later in life and we call his wife Gramma Janie.  No biggie.

I mean, if you're sibling divorces and then remarries, is their new spouse not an aunt or uncle?  Personally, I'd want my grandchild to feel as if they're going to their grandparents house, not just Grandpa and that woman lol.  But to each their own I suppose


Yes they would be Aunt and uncle but thats not the same.  A Grandparent is a bloodline your spouses DH/DW is not.  So no its not the same thing.  If DH and I got a divorce I also feel that if we remarried that they would not be called mom and dad if we remarried.  Our DD has one father and one mother period.


Keep messing up your siblings DH/DW is not
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 24, 2011, 09:35:15 pm
Quote from: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 08:02:00 pm

My DH is a quad injured when he was 16 years old that woman did more for him then most 16 year old mother's ever have to do for their children.(she was his caregiver).  So for my DH her being honored as Grandma is important. 
[/quote]

This would be the game changer for me...  She obviously means more to dh than "that woman" fil is married to. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 24, 2011, 09:40:36 pm
I would assume that a child's bio mom would always mean more and have a very special place in their heart.. but the heart is capable of loving/respecting more then one person.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Kennedy on April 24, 2011, 11:48:59 pm
Sassy DI, You and your husband are correct in knowing what you say or make your DD do is your right.
From what I'm reading you've ask everyone what they think? And I believe some are only trying to show you how your FIL's wife "may" feel?
So if having some and not all that is possible of a family is what you and he want for your child ? Then ok. Like you've said ,,,,You ARE THE PARENTS!
But....if a stronger more caring family is something you and he would like to work on and build for your child? Seeing and "listening" not just hearing,about how another family member feels is a must. And meeting in the middle more than half the time will also probably be a must.
Just like most everything in life. See what you want. Then take the best steps to get it! And learn from it when you miss a step so it don't happen again. If you stick with that? I'm willing to think you will be successful!
Nothing this woman does could ever replace your DH's beloved Mother. NOTHING!
As a Mom myself I can honestly say that if my time here was over and my husband remarried. I would be smiling from heaven if he married a woman who wanted to show love to my grandchildren! And I would be proud of my child if they allowed their children to recieve all the love they could .
As the Parents, It is your choice. You are so right about that! And as Parents we have to choose what is best for our children if we want to do right by them. IMO. I don't know your DH's step-mom . I haven't read where you said she is a horrible monster or anything? If I missed it? I'm sorry!
Which ever way this goes? I wish you much happiness. And the wisdom to cross each bridge softly in case you should need to run back quickly!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Kennedy on April 24, 2011, 11:53:18 pm
Luise, I just know you must be so proud of children! I would be if in your shoes.
I bet it is wonderful to know they love you and respect your life and your choices.
To drive all that way to show that respect if amazing and wonderful! IMHO.
"HUGS" and "God Bless!"
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 05:02:46 am
Quote from: Kennedy on April 24, 2011, 11:48:59 pm
Sassy DI, You and your husband are correct in knowing what you say or make your DD do is your right.
From what I'm reading you've ask everyone what they think? And I believe some are only trying to show you how your FIL's wife "may" feel?
So if having some and not all that is possible of a family is what you and he want for your child ? Then ok. Like you've said ,,,,You ARE THE PARENTS!
But....if a stronger more caring family is something you and he would like to work on and build for your child? Seeing and "listening" not just hearing,about how another family member feels is a must. And meeting in the middle more than half the time will also probably be a must.
Just like most everything in life. See what you want. Then take the best steps to get it! And learn from it when you miss a step so it don't happen again. If you stick with that? I'm willing to think you will be successful!
Nothing this woman does could ever replace your DH's beloved Mother. NOTHING!
As a Mom myself I can honestly say that if my time here was over and my husband remarried. I would be smiling from heaven if he married a woman who wanted to show love to my grandchildren! And I would be proud of my child if they allowed their children to recieve all the love they could .
As the Parents, It is your choice. You are so right about that! And as Parents we have to choose what is best for our children if we want to do right by them. IMO. I don't know your DH's step-mom . I haven't read where you said she is a horrible monster or anything? If I missed it? I'm sorry!
Which ever way this goes? I wish you much happiness. And the wisdom to cross each bridge softly in case you should need to run back quickly!



If I am looking for any advice its how to get FIL and FILW to follow boundries.  We are firm and sure of our postion.  I am not a parent pleaser never have been.  I am strong willed person who had her own view points and doesn't see the world in just black and white.  It use to drive my own father nuts but its also a strong thing.  Funny I think his family doesn't like my strong willed personiality but its what made me able to date my husband and marry him.  Most of my family was against me dating my DH because of his injury my mom wasn't so sure it was a good idea after all our lives would not be easy.  Had I taken her advice well I wouldn't have my wonderful husband and DD. 

Futher if it was reversed and it was my parents I would do the same thing.  Kind of why I am so stead fast for DH's mother.  I never met her and I don't know what she would have wanted.  I don't put words into people who past on's mouth.  Maybe she would be ok but that doesn't mean I am ok with it nor is DH.  If you reversed it and it was my mother no way in hell would I allow my father's new wife be mother and if I feel that way about  my own I also feel that way about DH's.   

Is she a monster I don't know if I would go that far but there is a lot of poop that they and the rest of the family pulled before during and after we got married.  I diffently wouldn't call her the most honest kindest person I have ever met that is for sure. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 06:15:49 am
Well you guys knew when I got back on here, I would have an opinion!  Lol.  First, I find it mind boggling that "marriage" leads to how people have to communicate with others.  I do understand that there are some things that should be "off limits" when speaking to others, but I can't tell you how many times I have went to my Mother and discussed things about my marriage.  And my DH discusses things with his Mother.  I can not even fathom telling him that he was not allowed to speak to his Mother about our marriage.  My Mother and I have always had an open, honest line of communication and he has the same with his.  I think there is a huge difference in having conversations with parents, versus looking for an ally.  I'm not looking for my Mother to side with me, I'm looking for a different perspective because "oh my goodness" I can be totally wrong. If a DD or DS is going to a parent to simply have an ally against their spouse....well, frankly you are blaming the wrong person.  That's not an MIL/FIL/DM/DF problem...that's a spouse problem. 

Stepparents...wow.  I had a stepfather who is my "Daddy" because that is what he was.  He loved me unconditionally and was a Father to me in every way.  I married my DH, and he has a daughter.  I have never expected to be "Mom" to my SD.  I hope she looks at me like a person that loves her, cares about her and contributes to her life in some way.  She calls me by my first name and I am good with that.  She can call me whatever she wants.  But just because she is not blood to me, does not make me love her any less.  I certainly hope she never looks at me as "that person that my Father married."  I hope she looks at me as the person that loves her Father with all her heart, treated her no differently than I treat my own kids, and added value to her life, even if it's just in some small way.

Welcome SassyDI.  I think you a person that knows herself very well, which is always good.  You and I have a different view on this one, because I have people in my life that are not blood relation, that I love very much.  I also have blood relations in my life, that I don't love.  I have friends that have adopted babies, because they couldn't have any of their own, and they love them just as much as they would have had they been biologically theirs.  I love my SD and I hope that someday when she marries, and has children, that they will think of me as their GP, because I will think of them as my GC.  True love is unconditional.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 06:32:09 am
I have a family who is technically "stepfamily," but I was raised to be inclusive, so the "step" part never mattered much to me.  IMHO, it's never wrong to give a child the most love and "family" you can give.  That's as far as I'll go on that.

I do think- in regards to the other topic- ST, your DS does seem to have an awful lot of "negative" things to "joke about" to you regarding his wife.  I don't think that is good...I don't do it and I would feel like crap if my DH did it.  Of course adult children can talk to their parents about things- ask for advice without their spouse being present- but I think the line is when it's clear it SHOULD be a joint decision, or when it's clear that they have no intention of sharing the conversation with their spouse.  It isn't good for the marriage, and it isn't good for the parents' relationship with the DIL/SIL.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 06:36:04 am
Quote from: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 06:15:49 am
Well you guys knew when I got back on here, I would have an opinion!  Lol.  First, I find it mind boggling that "marriage" leads to how people have to communicate with others.  I do understand that there are some things that should be "off limits" when speaking to others, but I can't tell you how many times I have went to my Mother and discussed things about my marriage.  And my DH discusses things with his Mother.  I can not even fathom telling him that he was not allowed to speak to his Mother about our marriage.  My Mother and I have always had an open, honest line of communication and he has the same with his.  I think there is a huge difference in having conversations with parents, versus looking for an ally.  I'm not looking for my Mother to side with me, I'm looking for a different perspective because "oh my goodness" I can be totally wrong. If a DD or DS is going to a parent to simply have an ally against their spouse....well, frankly you are blaming the wrong person.  That's not an MIL/FIL/DM/DF problem...that's a spouse problem. 

Stepparents...wow.  I had a stepfather who is my "Daddy" because that is what he was.  He loved me unconditionally and was a Father to me in every way.  I married my DH, and he has a daughter.  I have never expected to be "Mom" to my SD.  I hope she looks at me like a person that loves her, cares about her and contributes to her life in some way.  She calls me by my first name and I am good with that.  She can call me whatever she wants.  But just because she is not blood to me, does not make me love her any less.  I certainly hope she never looks at me as "that person that my Father married."  I hope she looks at me as the person that loves her Father with all her heart, treated her no differently than I treat my own kids, and added value to her life, even if it's just in some small way.

Welcome SassyDI.  I think you a person that knows herself very well, which is always good.  You and I have a different view on this one, because I have people in my life that are not blood relation, that I love very much.  I also have blood relations in my life, that I don't love.  I have friends that have adopted babies, because they couldn't have any of their own, and they love them just as much as they would have had they been biologically theirs.  I love my SD and I hope that someday when she marries, and has children, that they will think of me as their GP, because I will think of them as my GC.  True love is unconditional.


Why is love being brought up?  No one is saying DD or FILW can't love each other.  We just don't want the name Grandma or Nana.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: RedRose on April 25, 2011, 06:39:22 am
My first husband died when I was 37, we had 2 children together, they were 13 and 8. I married my current husband when they were 22 and 17...they have always called him by his first name and they introduce him to others as their step-dad. He is now Grandpa to their children,

I have a step-daughter that has called me mom since the day I met her (she was 4...now 17). I have raised her with my husband since the day we married...she has always lived with us...(12 years almost). When she is older, married and has children I expect to be Grandma...her real mother can be Grandma too.

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 06:42:03 am
RedRose- I think that's usually the norm when people remarry.  If you are the child who did not grow up with this person your parent remarried, of course you wouldn't call them "mom," or "dad," but that shouldn't limit what your own children call this person.  They weren't around for everything that happened before, why limit their family?  In their short little lives, FIL or MIL's W or H is just as much a "gramma" as your other grandma.  They can only benefit from more GPs to spoil them! :)
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 06:43:10 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 09:18:37 pm
Quote from: 1Glitterati on April 24, 2011, 08:25:39 pm
Quote from: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 08:12:34 pm
My DH is stepfather to my DD, I will be extremely disappointed if she does not take his wishes into account (reasonably) when she makes decisions and if she does not show respect for me as her mother in choosing my own husband.  I think if we start getting into the "but we didn't choose her as dads wife" well guess what?  FIL didn't choose you as his sons wife...that's not a road I'd be willing to set foot on or set my childrens feet on.

I've known my stepmom for I think 20 years now (man, I feel really old.)  We haven't always loved each other or even liked each other.  But we did have one thing in common, love for my father.  I really don't care what my stepmom would want to be called, I would want my father to be happy around his wife and me.  I want to share holidays with them, I want my father to be happy.  I'm not going to live with him for the rest of his life, why would I want to exclude his wife? 


I think part of it may also depend on when the step comes into your life.  I think there is a difference between coming in when you're a child and when you're and adult.  I know at this point in my life that if my parents weren't together and remarried...that then new person would simply be my father's wife or my mother's husband.  They wouldn't be a step-parent to me and they wouldn't be a grandparent to my kids.  I've got a mom and dad, and my kids have grandparents.


Yes Glitter your right.


It was in response to Glitter's statement about a stepparent wouldn't be a grandparent to their kids and your agreement of it.

And also this one by you: "A Grandparent is a bloodline your spouses DH/DW is not."

I do agree with you that your wishes on a name should count.  I think she is being too inflexable.  Do I think that warrants a cut-off?  No.  But I also think you have stated it wasn't just that but other things as well.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 06:43:54 am
Lets just say if my BIL was like you can't be Aunt to my child because I don't like you fine if thats how you feel its your child.  Isn't going to make me love the child anyless then if I was Aunt.  I don't need a title to love someone.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 06:47:04 am
I wish we could talk to this FIL's wife and see what her perspective is of "joining this family."  Could be that she's felt so much pull just by loving someone and marrying them that she is on the complete defense now and determined to force her way into the family because she doesn't feel like anyone is letting her in.  Not that it's right, but it certainly would be human.  I can imagine there are a lot of difficult feelings for everyone involved.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 25, 2011, 06:51:58 am
SassyDI,

I'd just like to say your DD might feel a lot differently about her. What if she says, "I love her like a G-ma?" After all, she  may not have been in your DH's life from the day he was born, but she will be in your DD's life.

Anyhow, you said it is boundaries that you need help with. Truth is, I don't think you need any help at all with that. You say you are strongwilled, it is apparent in your posts, and you are in cutoff status at the moment, which means no boundaries are being crossed.

I don't think many of us are comfortable with a lot of boundaries, we just don't want someone to be hurt about a decision we make, and we don't want to be hurt by them either. I think you're spending a lot of time defending your authority, and it seems moot. You have the authority; I think your ILs would agree to that.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 06:53:17 am
OW, you are probably very right.  I know because my SD was already 15 when I married DH, I walked a thin line.  I didn't want her to think I was trying to be a Mother and I didn't want her to think I was trying to be her friend.  She needed to see me as a parental figure, but yet not trying to parent her.  It's been a rough 3 years for me to try and find a place with her.  And my DH is in the same boat with my adult Sons.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 07:01:07 am
Just going to throw this out there....

So, a grandparent is a grandparent only because of bloodline. What if you adopt a child? That child is not of their bloodline. Would you want the grandparent to not consider that child their grandchild? Would you want them to be addressed as "the kid my DS adopted"?

My dad was killed when I was two days shy of 18. He was IMHO the greatest man who even lived. I am truly truly blessed that I had him as my daddy. I was a total daddy's girl too. My mom took his death very hard. It took her a long time to be able to move on. About the time I met my DH, she met her BF. He is a great guy. If they do get married (and I really do hope that they do), I won't have a problem calling him Dad if he will let me. He will definitely be Grandpa to my kids (even if he and my mom never get married). Soooo, I guess I don't understand that POV that it is only a grandparent if it is by blood....
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 07:03:39 am
Quote from: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 06:43:10 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 24, 2011, 09:18:37 pm
Quote from: 1Glitterati on April 24, 2011, 08:25:39 pm
Quote from: pam1 on April 24, 2011, 08:12:34 pm
My DH is stepfather to my DD, I will be extremely disappointed if she does not take his wishes into account (reasonably) when she makes decisions and if she does not show respect for me as her mother in choosing my own husband.  I think if we start getting into the "but we didn't choose her as dads wife" well guess what?  FIL didn't choose you as his sons wife...that's not a road I'd be willing to set foot on or set my childrens feet on.

I've known my stepmom for I think 20 years now (man, I feel really old.)  We haven't always loved each other or even liked each other.  But we did have one thing in common, love for my father.  I really don't care what my stepmom would want to be called, I would want my father to be happy around his wife and me.  I want to share holidays with them, I want my father to be happy.  I'm not going to live with him for the rest of his life, why would I want to exclude his wife? 


I think part of it may also depend on when the step comes into your life.  I think there is a difference between coming in when you're a child and when you're and adult.  I know at this point in my life that if my parents weren't together and remarried...that then new person would simply be my father's wife or my mother's husband.  They wouldn't be a step-parent to me and they wouldn't be a grandparent to my kids.  I've got a mom and dad, and my kids have grandparents.


Yes Glitter your right.


It was in response to Glitter's statement about a stepparent wouldn't be a grandparent to their kids and your agreement of it.

And also this one by you: "A Grandparent is a bloodline your spouses DH/DW is not."

I do agree with you that your wishes on a name should count.  I think she is being too inflexable.  Do I think that warrants a cut-off?  No.  But I also think you have stated it wasn't just that but other things as well.


I had already started a small cut off by refusing to go to there home.  I wasn't rude to anyone when at family functions in there home I spoke to his family.  And only spoke to FIL and FIL wife when asked a question answer nicely and moved on.  Well all i heard from family is they were uncomfortable and GMIL would get in my face at every family event and tell me I need to start doing more when it came to FIL and his wife.  Finally I just one day said no more not going over there.  DH is more then welcome to go when he wants. 

They would come here for some then no holidays fine.  FIL and FILW were more then welcome at that time over here to see DD but we did not go there.  All this time up until DD was 18 months the name thing just hung there.  They wouldn't call her anything to DD.  Well it became to the point  where DD was old enough to where if we all called FILW something different it would be confusing.  So DH tried to get his father to nail down a different name and he refused anything but Nana or stepgranma.  We said no tired different names and but nothing was good enough.  Finally DH told them look we don't need DD confused you can either agree on her first name until DD finds a nickname to come up with or you don't come around.  They choose not to come around.  They blame it all on me and say they have done nothing wrong.  They just react and I (DH doesn't do anything wrong in there eyes) am to take full blame for everything that has happened.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 07:04:58 am
So what were some of the other "alternative grandma" names you suggested, SassyDI?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 07:05:56 am
I think this one is going to boil down to many of us having personal experience with SPs.  It is always hard for me to understand things I haven't been through personally.  I can have sympathy, but harder to have empathy.  Once you have been in a situation yourself, the empathy kicks in.  I'm sure we have all experienced people looking at you like a freak with two heads when they find out you don't speak to your children, or parents, or in-laws.

But here...there is understanding.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 07:13:49 am
Quote from: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 06:47:04 am
I wish we could talk to this FIL's wife and see what her perspective is of "joining this family."  Could be that she's felt so much pull just by loving someone and marrying them that she is on the complete defense now and determined to force her way into the family because she doesn't feel like anyone is letting her in.  Not that it's right, but it certainly would be human.  I can imagine there are a lot of difficult feelings for everyone involved.


I do think she is very inscure person about her role as wife.  But again thats something she has to come to terms with and I can't do that for her.  I love my hubby very secure in our marriage and don't need everyone welcoming me to know I am a married woman.  DH told her she would be Ms FILW and she flips out that she is not Ms she is Mrs.  Ok fine Mrs. I worked in childcare for 7 years children even after I married called me Miss Sassy I didn't care.  It didn't make me any less married.  The only person I need to make me feel secure in my marriage is the person I married and not his family.  After all I did not marry his family I married him.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sassy on April 25, 2011, 07:16:11 am
QuoteIf I am looking for any advice its how to get FIL and FILW to follow boundries.

Dear SassyDI, this advice simply doesn't exist. Because no one can control other people. 

You can, of course, control how you respond when other people go over what you consider your line.  What you can think about, is if your response is the best way for you to get what you want.  If you and DH decide your boundaries are not getting you what you want, (the way you hoped they would), you are always free to move your line.

If you and DH want to cut FIL and SMIL out of your lives, because they won't follow a boundary you decided, that's your preogative.  But when you do that, you and DH should make sure what you want is to cut FIL and S-MIL out of your lives, because that is what your choice will get you. 

It is a choice that is all yours.  If you'd rather have no FIL and S-MIL, at all, and for your children to have no relationship at all with those grandparents, instead of you and DH having a relationship with them, and your children having a S-MIL with a grandmother title in her name, that is completely within your power.  Making them do what you want them to do is not within your power.

Your boundaries are for you.  You get to choose them, you get to decide how important they are to you, how married to them you are. You get to change them if you want to, and you get to decide how much you're willing to sacrafice to enforce them.  If you'd sacrafice spending time with people who don't do what you want them to, that is 100% your choice.   You don't get to, and you can't make other people follow your boundaries.  That's the part that's up to them.

Signed, Sassy
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 07:16:58 am
You are lucky enough to be strong willed.  Some people aren't as lucky as you, and while it isn't your "job" to "make her" less insecure, you can also choose to be empathetic and understanding and do things to help her feel more comfortable in her role.  To be a compassionate person.  I mean think about if we all acted that way to everyone else- not my problem, therefore I'm not going to anything to help make it easier on you.  It would be a very sad, distant world.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 07:19:57 am
I would give just about anything for my IL's to consider me family, and I AM secure in my marraige. My marraige is separate from my relationship with the IL's. If FIL can view me as his "daughter" (Yeah he calls me his daughter not his daughter in law ans it gives me warm fuzzies inside  :D), why can't MIL and SIL? I'm just the girl their son/brother married.  :-\
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 07:30:36 am
Quote from: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 07:16:58 am
You are lucky enough to be strong willed.  Some people aren't as lucky as you, and while it isn't your "job" to "make her" less insecure, you can also choose to be empathetic and understanding and do things to help her feel more comfortable in her role.  To be a compassionate person.  I mean think about if we all acted that way to everyone else- not my problem, therefore I'm not going to anything to help make it easier on you.  It would be a very sad, distant world.


Nicely said OW. I am a strong willed individual that is still open to compromise.  I don't have to be either/or, I can be both.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 07:31:57 am
Quote from: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 07:16:58 am
You are lucky enough to be strong willed.  Some people aren't as lucky as you, and while it isn't your "job" to "make her" less insecure, you can also choose to be empathetic and understanding and do things to help her feel more comfortable in her role.  To be a compassionate person.  I mean think about if we all acted that way to everyone else- not my problem, therefore I'm not going to anything to help make it easier on you.  It would be a very sad, distant world.


When I was 30 weeks pregnant with DD.  DH asked his father to help him int o bed(he can't do it himself and I could not longer do it.) one day a week after our labor class because we couldn't get a caregiver.  He agreed always bringing in toe his wife.  FIL's wife its a long story came in starting an argument on the 3rd out of four times we needed him to help.  DH told his father next week please just come yourself.  FIL told him that if FILW couldn't come to family fuctions he wasn't coming.  Um yes because helping him into bed was a family function.  He refused the next week to help DH and I had to do it when it wasn't a very good idea for me at 3O some odd weeks to do it.  THey had no compassion for the risk of my prengnancy and our babies life. They told DH they would not due me any favors.  Helping out my DH who is paralized isn't doing me a favor.  Yeah I don't feel sorry for people when they are that way. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 07:33:21 am
Quote from: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 07:30:36 am
Quote from: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 07:16:58 am
You are lucky enough to be strong willed.  Some people aren't as lucky as you, and while it isn't your "job" to "make her" less insecure, you can also choose to be empathetic and understanding and do things to help her feel more comfortable in her role.  To be a compassionate person.  I mean think about if we all acted that way to everyone else- not my problem, therefore I'm not going to anything to help make it easier on you.  It would be a very sad, distant world.


Nicely said OW. I am a strong willed individual that is still open to compromise.  I don't have to be either/or, I can be both.


I did offer compromise by finding a name that wasn't Grandma Nana or her first name.  They won't take it. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 07:35:23 am
If my MIL pulled the stunt of "Next time don't bring ADIL." Well, DH wouldn't be going a next time.

What if you weren't the pregnant one and were in her shoes?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 07:37:45 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 07:33:21 am

I did offer compromise by finding a name that wasn't Grandma Nana or her first name.  They won't take it.


What was this name?  I don't think I've seen it yet and am very curious what this alternate grandma name was.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 07:39:21 am
You don't have to give details, but were her arguments based on helping your DH?  Or was it totally off the wall?

Did you offer her more than one choice?  Or just the Ms?  I'm just asking so I understand fully the situation.  I remember me and my MIL going back and forth while I was pregant over her name.  I was telling her that I preferred her not be a XXXX or XXXX because we already had those (just for confusion sake) and she tossed out a few names, I tossed out a few until we found one she liked.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 07:42:01 am
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 07:35:23 am
If my MIL pulled the stunt of "Next time don't bring ADIL." Well, DH wouldn't be going a next time.

What if you weren't the pregnant one and were in her shoes


If it were to a family fuction I can see that.  But not being able to be over while FIL helps DH down when she can't even be the room because he's naked(EWWW).  Yeah I don't see them as two of the same things.  He acted like we were having a party. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 07:43:32 am
Quote from: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 07:37:45 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 07:33:21 am

I did offer compromise by finding a name that wasn't Grandma Nana or her first name.  They won't take it.


What was this name?  I don't think I've seen it yet and am very curious what this alternate grandma name was.


It was Lulu which ment wonderful person.  And the other was GG because she had to G's in her name.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 07:45:54 am
Sorry SassyDI, I misunderstood your earlier post about the Ms vs Mrs..  I thought that was the name.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 07:47:26 am
Quote from: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 07:39:21 am
You don't have to give details, but were her arguments based on helping your DH?  Or was it totally off the wall?

Did you offer her more than one choice?  Or just the Ms?  I'm just asking so I understand fully the situation.  I remember me and my MIL going back and forth while I was pregant over her name.  I was telling her that I preferred her not be a XXXX or XXXX because we already had those (just for confusion sake) and she tossed out a few names, I tossed out a few until we found one she liked.


It was over my shower and what people were saying at it.  Most turned out to be untrue or people being dumb.  We called each person to ask what was going on.  And she told DH that people were saying it was the worest shower ever.  And that blah blah blah blah said I did this and we didn't do this right ect.  Then got all mad at us for calling people and asking them when they got mad at her.  She blamed DH for starting trouble.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 25, 2011, 07:49:14 am
I do like GG. That is what I picked for my MIL b/c she is Georgia G-ma. She's still pretty insistent that  she wants to be Grammy (mom's name, been mom's name for 3 years; meanwhile MIL has had a GS for 2 years and still can't come up with a name; so her indecision isn't my problem).

I'm sorry she won't find middle ground with you. Perhaps time will tell when your DD picks a name for her. Kids do that too.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 07:54:51 am
That was very inconsiderate of her to be saying those things.  Untrue, true....didn't matter, she shouldn't have been repeating it to you guys.  I always hate those "she said, he said" things.  Because you never know if the person that is telling you those things is telling the truth, or the person you confront is now telling the truth, or lying to get out of trouble....blah blah blah.  That's a no-win situation for everyone involved.

I have learned as I have gotten older, to look at people that start gossiping and say, "Hey.  I don't like hearing things 3rd party because it is so easy for people to misunderstand each other.  I'm sure if they want me to know, they'll tell me.  And if they don't, well I hope it makes them feel better to speak badly of someone else."

That usually stops it!  Lol.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 07:56:25 am
What about making a list of the word "grandmother" in other languages (Spanish, French, Italian, etc.) and using one of those?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 25, 2011, 07:58:54 am
Nonna. I love Nonna.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:01:39 am
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 07:56:25 am
What about making a list of the word "grandmother" in other languages (Spanish, French, Italian, etc.) and using one of those?


GMIL suggested that but again we don't want Grandma and it still means Grandma.  Thats why we came up with a few that we felt were nice but not Grandmother names.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 08:01:50 am
I like Oma. It is German. Both DH and I's families are of German descent.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Kennedy on April 25, 2011, 08:02:26 am
It sounds as you really have already made your choices and if she don't like them tough. Correct?
I only want to say that I do hope all works out well for all of you. Good Luck and God Bless.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 08:02:57 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:01:39 am
GMIL suggested that but again we don't want Grandma and it still means Grandma.  Thats why we came up with a few that we felt were nice but not Grandmother names.


Alright then, I guess there is no more to say.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 25, 2011, 08:03:31 am
You're mind is  made up...I guess there isn't much more help we can offer. Sorry.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:05:05 am
Quote from: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 07:54:51 am
That was very inconsiderate of her to be saying those things.  Untrue, true....didn't matter, she shouldn't have been repeating it to you guys.  I always hate those "she said, he said" things.  Because you never know if the person that is telling you those things is telling the truth, or the person you confront is now telling the truth, or lying to get out of trouble....blah blah blah.  That's a no-win situation for everyone involved.

I have learned as I have gotten older, to look at people that start gossiping and say, "Hey.  I don't like hearing things 3rd party because it is so easy for people to misunderstand each other.  I'm sure if they want me to know, they'll tell me.  And if they don't, well I hope it makes them feel better to speak badly of someone else."

That usually stops it!  Lol.


It wasn't the first time.  She did this with my SIL.  My SIL (DH's younger brothers wife) said something behind my back and in a fight she told me all about it.  I have heard some pretty mean thing come out of others mouths about her but I don't go telling her.  I think it is not ok and right if the person wants to tell that person they will.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:06:14 am
Quote from: Holly on April 25, 2011, 08:03:31 am
You're mind is  made up...I guess there isn't much more help we can offer. Sorry.


Hey not your fault hell venting in itself is help. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 25, 2011, 08:09:08 am
Venting means you would like an improvement in your situation. What would you like SMIL to do? Like, what could she do that would make you happy?
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 25, 2011, 08:10:51 am
And falling over dead doesn't not count :)
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 08:15:05 am
Quote from: Sassy on April 25, 2011, 07:16:11 am
QuoteIf I am looking for any advice its how to get FIL and FILW to follow boundries.

Dear SassyDI, this advice simply doesn't exist. Because no one can control other people. 

You can, of course, control how you respond when other people go over what you consider your line.  What you can think about, is if your response is the best way for you to get what you want.  If you and DH decide your boundaries are not getting you what you want, (the way you hoped they would), you are always free to move your line.

If you and DH want to cut FIL and SMIL out of your lives, because they won't follow a boundary you decided, that's your preogative.  But when you do that, you and DH should make sure what you want is to cut FIL and S-MIL out of your lives, because that is what your choice will get you. 

It is a choice that is all yours.  If you'd rather have no FIL and S-MIL, at all, and for your children to have no relationship at all with those grandparents, instead of you and DH having a relationship with them, and your children having a S-MIL with a grandmother title in her name, that is completely within your power.  Making them do what you want them to do is not within your power.

Your boundaries are for you.  You get to choose them, you get to decide how important they are to you, how married to them you are. You get to change them if you want to, and you get to decide how much you're willing to sacrafice to enforce them.  If you'd sacrafice spending time with people who don't do what you want them to, that is 100% your choice.   You don't get to, and you can't make other people follow your boundaries.  That's the part that's up to them.

Signed, Sassy


I couldn't have said it better.

Boundaries aren't for other people, they are for you.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:16:41 am
Quote from: Holly on April 25, 2011, 08:09:08 am
Venting means you would like an improvement in your situation. What would you like SMIL to do? Like, what could she do that would make you happy?


For me it would be so easy to walk away my frustration comes from that I really just can't say it is over there out of lives its done because well DH and DD have to be thought about too.  DH knows that I will never like either of them.  That if they do come back into our lives its for him and DD only.  All she has to do is say fine I am First name until DD can figure out her own special name for me.  So very simple yet they don't want to do it.  I have no emotion left for them I am so beyond over it.  But its hard because I can't just walk away and be done and that is what makes this thing hard. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 08:18:41 am
IMO, there is a huge difference in calling a stepparent Mom or Dad, it's simply not a comparable subject.  You can lose custody over that one.

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:20:05 am
Quote from: Laurie on April 25, 2011, 08:10:51 am
And falling over dead doesn't not count :)


Oh I don't wish her dead I am not that mean.  Maybe a desserted island wouldn't be so bad. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:20:53 am
Quote from: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 08:18:41 am
IMO, there is a huge difference in calling a stepparent Mom or Dad, it's simply not a comparable subject.  You can lose custody over that one.


How? Confused
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 08:22:31 am
But that "own special name" can't be in any way translated into "Grandma." It sounds like FILW's choices are Mrs. XXXX OR something that she finds insulting. You can't offer her any other choice?

I was reading on a website that someone called his grandparents Banana and Papaya.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:25:05 am
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 08:22:31 am
But that "own special name" can't be in any way translated into "Grandma." It sounds like FILW's choices are Mrs. XXXX OR something that she finds insulting. You can't offer her any other choice?

I was reading on a website that someone called his grandparents Banana and Papaya.


DD calls bananas nanas so that won't work.  but it is cute.  If she finds a name that means wonderful person insulting then nothing i say will be ok.  We asked her what wouldn't be and the answer is Nana or Step Grandma. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 08:25:26 am
Mmm...a desserted island...yum.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 08:27:01 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:20:53 am
Quote from: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 08:18:41 am
IMO, there is a huge difference in calling a stepparent Mom or Dad, it's simply not a comparable subject.  You can lose custody over that one.


How? Confused


In child custody/child support cases the current trend is that names used for stepparents as in Mom and Dad are part of parental alienation.  Not PAS, just parental alienation.  It is supposed to encourage bio parents to keep active in their childs life.  It's too easy for some parents to say they've got a Mom or Dad, so therefore I don't need to pay, see the child etc.  It's also supposed to limit a stepparents interference into the legal parenting realm, which is a problem in some cases.

it's not my personal opinion on it but that's where the bread is buttered nowadays.  If someone were to have a beef with not being able to have their spouse called Mom or Dad, my advice is do you really want to lose custody over a name? 

SassyDI,  if it were your stepmil on here asking the same question, I'd tell her to get over herself.  Of course, in politer terms.  IMO, these type of things that tear families apart are sad, I don't care what side of the table you're sitting on in this issue. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 25, 2011, 08:27:47 am
that is where I'm going when I die.. but then again my favorite childhood game was.. you guessed it.. Candy Land

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 25, 2011, 08:28:48 am
Yes, a child would normally agree with their parent when the parent is pushing for that  sort of thing.

You really weren't specific enough in things your SMIL could do to make things better.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 08:29:01 am
Haha, that game makes me so hungry for all the things I can't eat!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:32:19 am
Quote from: Holly on April 25, 2011, 08:28:48 am
Yes, a child would normally agree with their parent when the parent is pushing for that  sort of thing.

You really weren't specific enough in things your SMIL could do to make things better.


How much simpler can we get do as we ask you guys can come around DD. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 25, 2011, 08:33:53 am
I don't know. I'm pretty well versed in mixed marriages. All she needs to do is pick a different name and then this will all be over? Have you communicated that with her? Nicely, calmly communicated it to her, without hurting her feelings?

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 08:35:43 am
SassyDI, that particular turn of phrase kinda makes you sound like a control freak, IMO.  :-\
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:35:52 am
Quote from: Holly on April 25, 2011, 08:33:53 am
I don't know. I'm pretty well versed in mixed marriages. All she needs to do is pick a different name and then this will all be over? Have you communicated that with her? Nicely, calmly communicated it to her, without hurting her feelings?


Dh has.  Once she even said if you ask me to do anything I usually will.  So Dh took it as ask me to go by my first name so he did and she told him No.  All just a power trip game she played. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 25, 2011, 08:46:02 am
You do know that GG is a very common name for Grandmother, right?

So is Lulu. I believe that the way you're doing this, you're making it impossible for your DD to call her any name but her first name.

You really don't want your SMIL to have any sort of grandmotherly connection to your DD, do you? Because "Nonna" even if it is G-ma in a different language, has nothing to do with the fact that your DH's late mother would have been named Grandma.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 08:51:02 am
Quote from: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 08:27:01 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:20:53 am
Quote from: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 08:18:41 am
IMO, there is a huge difference in calling a stepparent Mom or Dad, it's simply not a comparable subject.  You can lose custody over that one.


How? Confused


In child custody/child support cases the current trend is that names used for stepparents as in Mom and Dad are part of parental alienation.  Not PAS, just parental alienation.  It is supposed to encourage bio parents to keep active in their childs life.  It's too easy for some parents to say they've got a Mom or Dad, so therefore I don't need to pay, see the child etc.  It's also supposed to limit a stepparents interference into the legal parenting realm, which is a problem in some cases.



I always thought this was so stupid.  Only people can create parental alienation, not names.  If a bio Mom or Dad don't want to stay active in a child's life, no name is going to make them.  I know bio Mom's and Dad's that don't deserve that name just as I know some stepparents that do.

(I know you were providing info Pam, and not agreeing with it.  And I also know there are always cases where this could help.)
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:51:40 am
Quote from: Holly on April 25, 2011, 08:46:02 am
You do know that GG is a very common name for Grandmother, right?

So is Lulu. I believe that the way you're doing this, you're making it impossible for your DD to call her any name but her first name.

You really don't want your SMIL to have any sort of grandmotherly connection to your DD, do you? Because "Nonna" even if it is G-ma in a different language, has nothing to do with the fact that your DH's late mother would have been named Grandma.


No I don't want her to be a grandmother to my child.  And I asked her to come up with a name that she wants but she won't.  Hell the name she goes by isn't even her real name.  Example not using her real names.  But her name would be like Sarah she calls herself Mary. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 25, 2011, 08:58:56 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:51:40 am

No I don't want her to be a grandmother to my child. 
[/quote]

Would you want mil to treat your dd differently than she would her own bio gc?  The decision is yours, SassyDI, just be careful what you wish for...  I'd hate to see your dd suffer for it. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 25, 2011, 09:00:54 am
Well, at least you were honest about it. There have been, at times, where I wished my MIL wasn't my child's g-ma either, but I can't do a lot to change it, and it would make our entire family miserable pretending that wasn't the case. In addition, it had more to do with my issues with her than anything she might be doing or not doing with DD. I might add, I was being totally ridiculous about it.

It appears to me like insecurity; not on her part, but yours. It's not the name that matters, it's the possible connection at all that is the problem.

In that case, I think you win. Hands down. Cutoff was quite convenient for you b/c it just works to your advantage at prevention.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 09:02:58 am
Quote from: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 08:51:02 am
Quote from: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 08:27:01 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 08:20:53 am
Quote from: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 08:18:41 am
IMO, there is a huge difference in calling a stepparent Mom or Dad, it's simply not a comparable subject.  You can lose custody over that one.


How? Confused


In child custody/child support cases the current trend is that names used for stepparents as in Mom and Dad are part of parental alienation.  Not PAS, just parental alienation.  It is supposed to encourage bio parents to keep active in their childs life.  It's too easy for some parents to say they've got a Mom or Dad, so therefore I don't need to pay, see the child etc.  It's also supposed to limit a stepparents interference into the legal parenting realm, which is a problem in some cases.



I always thought this was so stupid.  Only people can create parental alienation, not names.  If a bio Mom or Dad don't want to stay active in a child's life, no name is going to make them.  I know bio Mom's and Dad's that don't deserve that name just as I know some stepparents that do.

(I know you were providing info Pam, and not agreeing with it.  And I also know there are always cases where this could help.)


Oh I know, what's boggling my mind lately are all the parents right groups and state modifications to child support laws pushing for more parental involvement by the non-custodial parent in exchange for a discount off child support.

All I can think is that you really want to push some parent into being around the child, the same parent who refuses to pay support?  That's a good idea how exactly? 

All that money spent on those groups can be used to paying off all the state child support debts and actually benefit those children whose parents aren't receiving a dime in support.  Instead of pushing some lousy parent into a role they didn't want in the first place, way to pump up the childs self esteem.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: RedRose on April 25, 2011, 09:03:27 am
The way I see this situation is that SMIL wants to be considered Gramdma and FIL also want his wife to be Grandma.

So...you don't and you say you husband does not either.

I would want the same thing...I would not compromise on any name unless I was accepted as Grandma.

I would be very hurt and so would my husband.

IMO
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 09:07:32 am
Quote from: RedRose on April 25, 2011, 09:03:27 am
The way I see this situation is that SMIL wants to be considered Gramdma and FIL also want his wife to be Grandma.

So...you don't and you say you husband does not either.

I would want the same thing...I would not compromise on any name unless I was accepted as Grandma.

I would be very hurt and so would my husband.

IMO


Its not your choice though when its not your child.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 25, 2011, 09:09:09 am
No, I don't think people much have a choice over what hurts them.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: RedRose on April 25, 2011, 09:10:23 am
I believe I should have a choice...I am the grandmother
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 09:10:47 am
My cousin's first name is Hope. She has always gone by Nicole. Everyone calls her this including her parents.

I agree with Red Rose completely. It isn't like your IL's are divorced. Your DH's mother has died correct? He isn't harming her memory by allowing his daughter to call his father's new wife Grandma.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 09:14:44 am
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 09:10:47 am
My cousin's first name is Hope. She has always gone by Nicole. Everyone calls her this including her parents.

I agree with Red Rose completely. It isn't like your IL's are divorced. Your DH's mother has died correct? He isn't harming her memory by allowing his daughter to call his father's new wife Grandma.


This is a good point.  I'm pretty sure if I passed that I'm going to want DH to move on, love and be loved and really just be happy.  I'm pretty sure that's what most people want for their loved ones in any case.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 09:16:47 am
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 09:10:47 am
My cousin's first name is Hope. She has always gone by Nicole. Everyone calls her this including her parents.

I agree with Red Rose completely. It isn't like your IL's are divorced. Your DH's mother has died correct? He isn't harming her memory by allowing his daughter to call his father's new wife Grandma.


So let me get this straight FIL decided who to marry and now gets to decide what she is called.  Hmm ok so yep I see we just are allowed no though in the matter.  We can agree to disagree on that.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 09:17:54 am
Quote from: RedRose on April 25, 2011, 09:10:23 am
I believe I should have a choice...I am the grandmother


Huh so confused.  Just marrying a guy doesn't make you a mother or grandmother.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Rose799 on April 25, 2011, 09:19:38 am
Quote from: luise.volta on April 24, 2011, 08:07:37 pm
Let's see, when I married my third husband, who was eight years younger than I was, my eldest son, Dwight, married his youngest sister. So...are you ready...my son was my brother in law, my future grand sons were my nephews and Dwight and I had the same mother in law!  ;D ;D ;D


I'm still working on this, Luise...  Please don't add Kirk to the mix or I'll be at it forever!   The wheels don't spin as they once did~  :D :D :D 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 25, 2011, 09:22:09 am
Are you trying to convince us that you are right, or are you trying to convince yourself? We have sympathized with you, empathized with you and understood your position and still don't agree.

I'm really not sure what you're looking for. Because it's not venting, it's arguing over semantics; and it's a superficial issue compared to what you admitted your problem actually was.

What happens when this woman allows herself to be called "bubblegum on the bottom of your shoe," is allowed back into your DD's life and your DD comes to love her just like she would a grandmother. She's fulfilling a grandmother role then, a name won't change that.

There are some things, no matter how strong willed we are, that we can not control.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 09:23:15 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 09:16:47 am
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 09:10:47 am
My cousin's first name is Hope. She has always gone by Nicole. Everyone calls her this including her parents.

I agree with Red Rose completely. It isn't like your IL's are divorced. Your DH's mother has died correct? He isn't harming her memory by allowing his daughter to call his father's new wife Grandma.


So let me get this straight FIL decided who to marry and now gets to decide what she is called.  Hmm ok so yep I see we just are allowed no though in the matter.  We can agree to disagree on that.


Uh yes she does.  She has her boundaries, you have yours.  It really is that simple SassyDI.  No one is disagreeing with you, there are simply stating what they think of the situation. 

Did FIL get to pick what to call you since you just married some guy? 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 09:34:36 am
I agree that marriage doesn't make you a Mother or Grandmother.  I also think that giving birth doesn't make you a Mother or Father.  It is people's actions or inactions that make you who you are. 

I do think you should be able to say "I would like for you not to pick XXXXX or XXXXXX because....".  She also has the right to not like the couple of names you picked.  So, you are at an enpass.  If you are not willing to budge and she is not willing to budge....well....then that's that.  As long as you and your DH are in agreement, then it's over.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 09:40:02 am
Quote from: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 09:34:36 am
I agree that marriage doesn't make you a Mother or Grandmother.  I also think that giving birth doesn't make you a Mother or Father.  It is people's actions or inactions that make you who you are. 

I do think you should be able to say "I would like for you not to pick XXXXX or XXXXXX because....".  She also has the right to not like the couple of names you picked.  So, you are at an enpass.  If you are not willing to budge and she is not willing to budge....well....then that's that.  As long as you and your DH are in agreement, then it's over.


And that is why I asked her to pick out a few and she wouldn't.  And we are at an empass and Dh has told his father ball is in your court when he askes to see DD.  But FIL refuses to listen. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Pooh on April 25, 2011, 09:42:39 am
FIL is standing up for his wife, just as you would hope DH would for you.  Another empass.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 09:44:50 am
Quote from: Holly on April 25, 2011, 09:22:09 am
Are you trying to convince us that you are right, or are you trying to convince yourself? We have sympathized with you, empathized with you and understood your position and still don't agree.

I'm really not sure what you're looking for. Because it's not venting, it's arguing over semantics; and it's a superficial issue compared to what you admitted your problem actually was.

What happens when this woman allows herself to be called "bubblegum on the bottom of your shoe," is allowed back into your DD's life and your DD comes to love her just like she would a grandmother. She's fulfilling a grandmother role then, a name won't change that.

There are some things, no matter how strong willed we are, that we can not control.


What happens if she goes by something other then Nana or Step grandma.  Then FIL and his wife more then welcome to come over here and visit and see DD when the want and see her at family fuctions.  I use to hang out in our bedroom when they came over.  They didn't like that either made them uncomfortable.  DH told them just be happy you are seeing DD Dad and let SassyDI do what she wants. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 09:49:47 am
SassyDI, you keep saying versions of  "refuses to lister" to either us here, or in reference to your FIL or you stepmil.  We listened, we got it and understood the first time. 

Your FIL got it and is now saying to you and his DS that you're right to punch stepmil ends at her face, for lack of another term.  Yes, you can do that but he will not be around it.  It is that simple.

I think you're expecting an unnatural reaction, spouses stand by their spouses. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 09:52:44 am
Quote from: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 09:49:47 am
SassyDI, you keep saying versions of  "refuses to lister" to either us here, or in reference to your FIL or you stepmil.  We listened, we got it and understood the first time. 

Your FIL got it and is now saying to you and his DS that you're right to punch stepmil ends at her face, for lack of another term.  Yes, you can do that but he will not be around it.  It is that simple.

I think you're expecting an unnatural reaction, spouses stand by their spouses.


Really because if I ever remarried my child would come first at any age to my new spouse. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 09:55:17 am
Wow

SassyDI, have you talked to your mother and father about all this?  I'm truly curious as to what they think/advised. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: holliberri on April 25, 2011, 09:57:39 am
SassyDI,

You and I have been at an impasse since about last night. You mentioned no grandmotherly names, no grandmotherly roles. I got that, I think your SMIL gets that. I don't have to agree that it's right; mainly b/c I think the long run it does more harm than good. I wholeheartedly agree that you can do whatever you want. Most people can.

I was only ever pointing out to you the hurt it might cause. I can totally understand why your SMIL has come out swinging about a name b/c all of those little things add up to big things, particularly when you marry into a family. I also see that you don't really care whether she is hurt or not. Neither of you is willing to give enough.

And, in this discussion, neither you nor I are willing to give enough...doesn't make either of us wrong.  I've bumped into you before, I'm sure I'll bump into you again. Ciao, for now!
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 10:01:30 am
I think that children should eventually get to the age that their parents happiness is more important then whether or not they like his or her choice in a new spouse. I would NEVER stand between my mom and whomever makes her happy. Her fella is a nice guy, but I definitely see problems with him, but he isn't my choice. For me, as the child, to stand in the way of my mother's happiness would be incredibly narcissitic and self-centered of me and one more word that Luise won't let me use lol.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: LaurieS on April 25, 2011, 10:02:01 am
Tara wrote a post recently that I think can be applied to this topic as well as the one that she originally intended... I'd like to repeat it here and see if anyone else is viewing this banter as I do

Quote from: Tara

I'm sorry to be off post as part of the hijack, but wanted to mention something.
-
I've noticed (not always) but  pattern when a  post goes on and on and on and the entire community
is involved trying to help someone , and the "yeah but"  is going on  it often turns out in a way less than
ideal.  I've seen this happen where at the end, the person, a mil just up and left the forum.
I couldn't believe it after all our  effort that went into trying to support the person.   

I think we should keep an eye out for these long posts and be mindful that they may be going nowhere
and in end people can feel dismissed like happened here and has happened before.  I had to stop looking at it after awhile.  I
remembered what Luise said about if you don't like what is happening on a post move on.  I also feel that
its hard when we can't see peoples faces and expressions and hear their voice tones its difficult to get a good read.  Somepeople
can seem smug and/or defensive but if you are in person with them, you might chuckle as you have a more accurate read, if you know what I mean.     And one final question
If we are really being asked to to be skillful and mindful here on WWU  then are we really hear to rant endlessly?
It doesn't seem compatible  with the values of this forum.   IMHO 

Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 10:02:25 am
Quote from: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 09:55:17 am
Wow

SassyDI, have you talked to your mother and father about all this?  I'm truly curious as to whouat they think/advised.


My mother knows what going on hell she has spoken to FILW about it too.  My mother cut my Grandfather off when I was a child for four years because he remarried and moved the new woman into the house her parents raised her and her mother passed in.  FILW was told about this and my mother told her flat out that no child of hers would ever call the new spouse grandma.  And she said "Well that was your choice."  So clearly its ok unless its for her.  My dad use to joke about it when she was small making up names that he wanted to be called.  They both feel it is up to us.  Just like they let DH choose what they called them.  He calls them by there first name because he doesn't want to call anyone else mom.  He loves my mom and they get along great and my parents while wanting to be called mom and dad respect his choice. 
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 10:05:07 am
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 10:01:30 am
I think that children should eventually get to the age that their parents happiness is more important then whether or not they like his or her choice in a new spouse. I would NEVER stand between my mom and whomever makes her happy. Her fella is a nice guy, but I definitely see problems with him, but he isn't my choice. For me, as the child, to stand in the way of my mother's happiness would be incredibly narcissitic and self-centered of me and one more word that Luise won't let me use lol.


When it comes to there marriage their lives I agree.  When it comes to me personally then I don't.  Opps I might have sworen a few times if I did sorry didn't know that was a rule.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sassy on April 25, 2011, 10:07:32 am
QuoteWhen I was 30 weeks pregnant with DD. DH asked his father to help him into bed(he can't do it himself and I could not longer do it.) one day a week after our labor class because we couldn't get a caregiver.  He agreed always bringing in toe his wife.  FIL's wife its a long story came in starting an argument on the 3rd out of four times we needed him to help.  DH told his father next week please just come yourself.  FIL told him that if FILW couldn't come to family fuctions he wasn't coming.  Um yes because helping him into bed was a family function.  He refused the next week to help DH and I had to do it when it wasn't a very good idea for me at 3O some odd weeks to do it.   THey had no compassion for the risk of my prengnancy and our babies life. They told DH they would not due me any favors.  Helping out my DH who is paralized isn't doing me a favor.  Yeah I don't feel sorry for people when they are that way. 


This sounds just awful, SassyDI and I'm sorry this happened to you and your DH.  It was very unloving of FIL, and I couldn't imagine any parent taking this stance on something so vital.  I can't imagine a neighbor you met only once refusing this request.  It breaks my heart.  I can't imagine how much that wounded DH, to be refused his own fathers's assistance so he could get in bed.  I am truly sorry.

QuoteWhat happens if she goes by something other then Nana or Step grandma.  Then FIL and his wife more then welcome to come over here and visit and see DD when the want and see her at family fuctions.  I use to hang out in our bedroom when they came over.  They didn't like that either made them uncomfortable.


It appears that the name impasse, is a far less painful way to avoid the cold dark fact that that FIL is not good at showing his love for his son, and his son's family.  You and DH both seem aware that if you changed your stance on the name, it wouldn't change FIL's lack of respect and support for him.  It's a rational fear to expect the next issue (or the one after that) could hurt DH even more than the bed rejection.   Names are an emotionally safer thing to hold your ground on.  The standoff on the name, is a solid and less charged way to make sure FIL isn't present to hurt DH anymore, in other ways.

Signed, Sassy
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 25, 2011, 10:11:01 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 10:02:25 am
Quote from: pam1 on April 25, 2011, 09:55:17 am
Wow

SassyDI, have you talked to your mother and father about all this?  I'm truly curious as to whouat they think/advised.


My mother knows what going on hell she has spoken to FILW about it too.  My mother cut my Grandfather off when I was a child for four years because he remarried and moved the new woman into the house her parents raised her and her mother passed in.  FILW was told about this and my mother told her flat out that no child of hers would ever call the new spouse grandma.  And she said "Well that was your choice."  So clearly its ok unless its for her.  My dad use to joke about it when she was small making up names that he wanted to be called.  They both feel it is up to us.  Just like they let DH choose what they called them.  He calls them by there first name because he doesn't want to call anyone else mom.  He loves my mom and they get along great and my parents while wanting to be called mom and dad respect his choice.


This explains a lot. Going to view other topics. Best of Luck.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 10:11:23 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 09:52:44 am
Really because if I ever remarried my child would come first at any age to my new spouse.


Really?  I mean really, you're remarried to a spouse and your 35 year old adult child doesn't like the spouse, you're going to forgo your own happiness for a grown adult?  That seems a little extreme, I hope you don't really take that approach if it ever happens to you.  Putting your kids first when they are KIDS, I totally get.  But after their grown and have spouses of their own to keep putting them first in your own life....well, that's not doing either party any good.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 10:12:11 am
With that said, I think I will follow suit and make my way onto other threads.....peace.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 10:23:43 am
Quote from: Sassy on April 25, 2011, 10:07:32 am
QuoteWhen I was 30 weeks pregnant with DD. DH asked his father to help him into bed(he can't do it himself and I could not longer do it.) one day a week after our labor class because we couldn't get a caregiver.  He agreed always bringing in toe his wife.  FIL's wife its a long story came in starting an argument on the 3rd out of four times we needed him to help.  DH told his father next week please just come yourself.  FIL told him that if FILW couldn't come to family fuctions he wasn't coming.  Um yes because helping him into bed was a family function.  He refused the next week to help DH and I had to do it when it wasn't a very good idea for me at 3O some odd weeks to do it.   THey had no compassion for the risk of my prengnancy and our babies life. They told DH they would not due me any favors.  Helping out my DH who is paralized isn't doing me a favor.  Yeah I don't feel sorry for people when they are that way. 


This sounds just awful, SassyDI and I'm sorry this happened to you and your DH.  It was very unloving of FIL, and I couldn't imagine any parent taking this stance on something so vital.  I can't imagine a neighbor you met only once refusing this request.  It breaks my heart.  I can't imagine how much that wounded DH, to be refused his own fathers's assistance so he could get in bed.  I am truly sorry.

QuoteWhat happens if she goes by something other then Nana or Step grandma.  Then FIL and his wife more then welcome to come over here and visit and see DD when the want and see her at family fuctions.  I use to hang out in our bedroom when they came over.  They didn't like that either made them uncomfortable.


It appears that the name impasse, is a far less painful way to avoid the cold dark fact that that FIL is not good at showing his love for his son, and his son's family.  You and DH both seem aware that if you changed your stance on the name, it wouldn't change FIL's lack of respect and support for him.  It's a rational fear to expect the next issue (or the one after that) could hurt DH even more than the bed rejection.   Names are an emotionally safer thing to hold your ground on.  The standoff on the name, is a solid and less charged way to make sure FIL isn't present to hurt DH anymore, in other ways.

Signed, Sassy


Exactly I can't imagine tell my child who was paralized from a car accident sorry I won't help you.  It wasn't the first time he refused to help.  Instead my father had to come over to help me which embrassed my hubby.  It would be different if I asked him to come hang up stuff on a wall or something trivial.  But to refuse to help sorry no.  I cann't tell you how many times when DH's father was his caregiver that I helped out when needed no questions asked because it was for my DH and I love him to much to use his injury to get back at his father. 

Then later I got an email that because my dh is injuried that I should be nice to them after all it won't be easy with a baby and a paralized hubby. We manage just fine on our own thank you.  I stopped asking for help after the first time it was DH who wanted to ask his father while pregnant not me.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 10:25:15 am
Quote from: overwhelmed123 on April 25, 2011, 10:11:23 am
Quote from: SassyDI on April 25, 2011, 09:52:44 am
Really because if I ever remarried my child would come first at any age to my new spouse.


Really?  I mean really, you're remarried to a spouse and your 35 year old adult child doesn't like the spouse, you're going to forgo your own happiness for a grown adult?  That seems a little extreme, I hope you don't really take that approach if it ever happens to you.  Putting your kids first when they are KIDS, I totally get.  But after their grown and have spouses of their own to keep putting them first in your own life....well, that's not doing either party any good.


No I wouldn't forgo my happiness but I wouldnt push something like Grandpa or her calling him dad on my daughter ever.  I would just expect him to be like a friend to her and nothing else.
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: Sassy on April 25, 2011, 10:57:24 am
Dear SassyDI,
For DH to withdraw from his father and say --  to himself or out loud to his father --  "I don't want to have a relationship with you, because you weren't willing to step up to help me for a few minutes once a week, there's been a pattern of nonsupport, I feel rejected and unloved by you, and it hurts like heck for me to be around you and be reminded of that," that puts DH in a very vulnerable position.

The name game seems like a form of self-preservation.  DH can keep his dignity and instead say "You won't respect our boundaries".  He is able to frame it to himself that he's protecting his late mother's honor , not his own hurt feelings, by refusing to bend on the title. You make it easy for him to remain firm on the subject because its is also culturally in line with how you and your family of origin feel about step titles.  So on some level, it can feel "right" to hold that line.  On a deeper level, it will feel false (uneasy), because it's not about what's really going on.

Your uneasiness (why you're here "venting", talking through something you've already decided) comes not from the name standoff itself.  But from the fact that your terrific loving husband has a father who does not seem to appreciate him, or show him the parental love every son wants, even grown sons.  DH only has one parent left, and that parent was checked out before DD was even born. It's not FIL's misplaced loyalties. It's not S-MIL or her presence that's making FIL like this.  If there was no S-MIL, FIL would still be rejecting DH.  This is just how FIL acts.  And for you, as the DWife of FIL's rejected son, you're uneasy that FIL treats your DH this way.  You should be, because its a darn shame. But with love and time, you both will heal. 

I've found this website is a great place to find some of that that love.

Love, Sassy
Title: Re: Need the Wisdom
Post by: luise.volta on April 25, 2011, 11:35:00 am
I think we have pretty much covered this. Sending love...