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Problem Solving => Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters => Topic started by: Louey0727 on October 31, 2009, 12:04:56 pm

Title: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on October 31, 2009, 12:04:56 pm
My husband inherited a cottage from his brother that was owned for over 40 years. My husband registered the cottage in both of our names.  We have three children, one son who loved the cottage.  As my husband was getting up in age and had health issues, the cottage and our home was becoming to much for us to handle, physically and money wise.  Without thinking more clearly, when we first inherited the cottage, we told our son that 'when we pass on' the cottage would be left to him and our home and other monies, would be left to our daughters.  At the time we said this, he was coming up to the cottage alot and enjoyed it very much.  We also stated verbally and in writing, that in the event that we need money to fix up our home (we were only on pensions) that we have to sell the cottage, he agreed.  Well the time came when it was getting to be a burden, financially and physically and we sold the cottage.  Prior to the sale, my son told ME that he would never forgive ME if the cottage was sold and where in the will did it state that I also owned the cottage and I reminded him that your DAD and I have been married for nearly 50 years and Dad wanted the cottage in both of our names and we need to sell because we cannot afford it Any longer  Well true to his word he has banned us from the grandchildren and tells everyone that he has disowned us and that we screwed him out of money and we are dead in his eyes.  This happened nearly three years ago and we did have some contact up until a year ago but he gets mad at ME FOR everything and now he has completely disowned us and he continues to tell people about the cottage situation.  I am at loss, I know we should have given all the children something after the sale of the cottage, but the other two children, said straight it was your cottage.  I have to say at this point, that we did do and give money to all the children since the sale of the cottage, but not in a lump sum.  we gave large amounts on birthdays, Christmas etc., along with the grandchildren. How can we get over this complete alienation from our son.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on October 31, 2009, 02:13:59 pm
My son is not married to the mother of his children.  She is 19 years younger than him and there has always been a strain between her and the family members from the very beginning.  I have tried to reason it out, due to her age and her insecurities from her childhood.  We have welcomed her from the start but she had a hard time to even communicate with us.  When we were on good terms with my son, his first born, was the love of my life.  When he was born there was a instant connection and throughout the five years, we hit it off so well and the love from him was so gratifying.  My son worked out of town quite a bit and his mother worked just down the street as a waitress, and I babysat 4 times a week, from 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.  I loved every minute of the time.  I will call her my DIL for the sake of not saying HER, she would come home from work and not say a word to me and just wave a hand and say Thanks.  I did not complain, as I wanted to see my grandson.  My son had two children after, and my DIL quit work and stayed home with the younger children.  I would call and ask for my grandson to come over and he would come over 3-4 times a week.  My son would come over with all the children and told me that she would not come over, because she has too many issues with me????? I asked him to please talk to her and we could get together and discuss what her issues are.  He spoke to her and she said she was not interested and the story goes on and on.  Finally my son exploded over a little matter and stopped seeing us completely.  He told his partner (who he is not longer with) that in his eyes were are dead.  I cannot believe that his grudge is over the sale of the cottage, as her was never a materialistic person.  I miss my grandson so much, the other children I did not get to know to well as all the problems started when they were babies and we saw less and less of the children. My son has told a few people (which of course gets back to us) that he has disowned us and they are shocked at his behaviour as they know how close we all were at one time.  How do you mend a broken heart.  I swear if my son came to the door my arms would open wide - - but not my husband.  He said enough is enough, we have been good parents and and do not deserve this kind of treatment and said he will never forgive our son. I must add, that my son and husband were partners in a renovation business and my husband was very fair with him and sometimes he did not take any portion from the job, so my son could support his family in a good manner.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: just2baccepted on October 31, 2009, 02:37:30 pm
Bless your heart, I'm so sorry.  That's a hard situation.  It seem as though your son has a sense of entitlement here.  This may sound harsh but you don't owe him anything.  I mean really what can he expect?  You need the money for your old age.  Would he like to foot the bill for your elder years.  I hope your other kids treat you with respect.  I've seen this in my family and my DH's family, this sense of entitlement.  I've seen my mom spend her entire IRA on my sister's many rehab's and legal fees(drug and criminal issues).  You deserve better than that.  You'll be in my prayers.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on October 31, 2009, 02:53:17 pm
Dear Just2beaccepted:
You mentioned something very interesting in your response.  That your mother had spent her entire savings on your sister's problems.
We have a daughter who has a alcohol problem and we have spent quite a bit of our savings on her, as she is now disabled due to brain damage from drinking.  She is a wonderful woman with a severe addiction.  We have not regretted one cent we have spent on her over 3 years, but I am wondering if this one of the issues my son has with me.  It has been me that goes and stays with her when she is sick from drinking or is in the hospital.  It is me that lugs down a car load of supplies for her, as her disability cheque does not cover very much.  This is another issue that I am dealing with right now - - to stop enabling her.  Like I said, she is a wonderful, loving person and I know she tells my son what I do for her.  When I say "I", my husband is aware of what I do, but due to his bad health, he does not go to her place as it effects him greatly.  Could my son feel that this is where I am spending the money.  At the same time, we have been there for our children through the bad times, helping them financially and my son has been helped, I believe more than my other children.  I find it very hard to believe this would bother him, but you never know
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: just2baccepted on October 31, 2009, 03:36:16 pm
Oh gosh, I think maybe you've found some answers here.  Your last post certainly opened up some possibilities.  My mom and I have always been close but the stuff she's done for my sister has put a strain on our relationship.  This has been going on for over ten years.  I used to get really mad but now I've accepted it.  My mom even gives money to my sister's husband, but luckily he was arrested for helping his brother mug somebody with a weapon.  Hopefully he'll be sent to prison for a long time and not living off my mom anymore.  The anger and resentment can run pretty high on my part.  Especially when my mom drops little hint to me about helping her out financially when she gets old because she's spent any safety net on my sister.  Which that scares me as well because my husband is very frugal and we're trying to figure out ways to save for retirement in this new down turned economy.  My husband knows about all the money etc., regarding my mom.  I'm so afraid that would damage my marriage if I had to take care of my mom's finances.  She's a great lady but very irresponsible with her money.

Of course there's no way to know your situation but I wonder if there's some resentment on your son's part.  He may see you as an enabler, they way I see my mom.  I still see her and talk to her frequently but I don't see her as much because my husband go tired of me coming home crying about all of it.  Plus she's starting to try to guilt me into taking care of her.  I think she also wants me to take care of my sister when my mom dies.  I said, "oh yea she'll transfer from laying on your couch all day to laying on mine."  I know my husband wouldn't go for that so that's out of the question.

I really think you may have found something here.  Have you considered counseling?  And maybe asking your son to go?  I bet the flood gates would open if you did.  I went to counseling over my IL's rejection of me and the crap my mom has put me through regarding my sisters many many problems.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: 2chickiebaby on October 31, 2009, 04:26:12 pm
Oh, I'm so disheartened with people!  The selfishness is awful.  I have a friend whose husband has a twin brother.

The twin stole everything his dying Mother had.  I feel terrible for them. The brothers do not speak and to be honest, I wouldn't speak to the low life either! 

People's hearts are so hardened that nothing surprises me anymore. 
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: mom2 on October 31, 2009, 08:46:02 pm
Louey,

Bless your heart! I sure don't understand kids these days.It almost seems like the better we treat them, the worse they treat us.

Our family was very close too and even my siblings ask me " What happened?" and say they just cannot believe my son would have turned on me the way he did.
I honestly believe they were brainwashed but I do realize that I have to come to grips with the fact that it was not all the DIL and he has a mind of his own. I hope that somehow and someway we can either fix it or learn to live with how it is ( in peace ). I do hope your situation gets better and please know that we are all in this together.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 01, 2009, 05:22:01 am
Thank you everyone for your responses and support.  I did not write to get sympathy but the support and knowledge that I am not alone was my prime reason for talking about this.
I will never understand the situation as we were all a very close family going back 7 years.  Things changed and cannot believe that my son holds such anger (mostly at me) and has disowned us.  Over money or the cottage?  I never brought the children up to be selfish or materialistic, I always made them share and be kind hearted.  I was very proud of them growning because of the qualities they exhibited to others, sharing and kindness.  I guess, I can analyze this till the day we die and I cannot understand what happened, but I have gone to conselling and have been told (just like at Al-Anon) LET GO....LET GOD.  Sometimes it works, but then some kind of drama reappears or remarks are made and we hear about them and we are back to square one.  I have been so tempted to contact my son and ask for a meeting to discuss things, but something tells me, not to do this, as he is so hot headed now and he changes the actual events.  This I know, because over the last 6 years he has told me off about little things and I am the one who calls and tries to smooth things by inviting them over for a meal or asking to see the grandchildren.  Everything goes well for a while but it has been more severe since all the happenings over the cottage.  I look forward to ev erones comments on how they have learned to deal with similar stories.
Regards to everyone.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 01, 2009, 05:37:09 am
Dear Louey,
It is the hardest thing to deal with.  I have been to counseling too..and found it not helpful.  One of the counselors told me that son did not love me. (us). He told me that if he did love me there is no way he could let his wife treat me this way. I think other counselors are probably better.  I guess you have to keep paying money till you land on one who is not so cruel. 

Oh! I thought I'd die on the way home from that meeting.  I actually dropped my cell phone on the way out I was so distraught. 

We too had a fun loving home, not perfect, I'm sure but one you'd like to be in.  I keep telling myself that there was something wrong here for him to marry someone like her.  I am my worst critic....it really upsets my husband for me to sit and dig up everything I can find that we did wrong and blame us for this.

I think all of us are trying to figure this out and don't really know how to do that.  The heartbreak is way too much for a Mother to deal with.  To have this child and then to lose him/her is like a death but you don't bury them.  They live but in a place you can't touch them.

(I know that I'm dramatic when I speak, sorry! but the people who love me say that's part of my charm. I hope it's not offensive to anyone.)

We're just going to have to keep writing on this online journal ( wisewomenunite.com ) till we can figure something out. 

Heart to heart!!!!! 

Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 01, 2009, 09:59:14 am
Dear chickiebaby:
I truly believe that the DIL's have a big influence over our sons but at the same time they have to examine their loyalties - - which rarely happens.
I do not know what hold the wives have on our sons?  I can even think back to my brothers' whom I love dearly and am very close to, their wives were mean and very nasty to my mother.  My mother was like a saint, always smiled, never complained to my brothers' about their wives actions.  She took everything in stride to keep harmony in the family, we always had wonderful holidays together, because of my mother's tolerances.  Sadly to say, my Mom died at the age of 60 years old from a aneurysm (not sure of spelling)?  Then lo and behold my SIL's were pulling their hair out and wailing like babies, that they missed her so much, and they lied how much they relied on her advice and that they talked continually on the phone!  To late for their phony regrets, and I don't blame them as much for their jealously and insecurities, as I blame my brothers, for not standing up like men and tell  their wives to behave, as this is their mother.  Until this day, 32 years later, it is hard for my brothers' to talk about Mom, without breaking down.  Again too late for regrets and by the way nothing was the same after Mom died, both brothers moved far away and the holiday get to-gethers never took place again, as their wives never took their place in rotating the holiday meals. I tried continually to keep the traditions going, but the wives always were sick or the weather was too bad (which is true here in the north) to travel to my place.We are all civil to each other, but I wonder if these women ever have regrets.  Also, they all had children but never prepared for holidays. My husband and I also made the long trek to see my brothers and SIL's in good weather as I had the need to see my brothers'.  Life goes on, but boy what a waste of putting a beautiful woman, like my Mother, through such heartaches.  I send all my love and good wishes to mothers' who are hurting this moment.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 01, 2009, 10:09:29 am
I'm so sad about your Mother, Louey.  I don't want to come to the end of my life with regret.  I can't imagine walking in your SILs shoes~ it must be a common problem that plagues mothers of sons. 

The SIL's are terribly territorial, like a cat, a really mean, vicious cat.  Can you imagine having your life end and knowing it's ending with the fact that you've cause nothing but heartache for a good person like your Mother?

That's what they will have on their plate.  Of course, if they are like a lot of young people, it might not hurt as much as it would us.  Their "boundaries", you know.  Their lives might end but their boundaries will live on.  Such a trophy!

I'm so sorry!!! 
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Pen on November 01, 2009, 02:45:09 pm
I've been thinking about all of us and our situations. I know I want an explanation for mine that makes sense and helps me either heal and move on or helps me solve it so I can mend and rebuild our relationship. Someone once told me that 'dealing with another person's crazy behavior is crazy-making,' and I think I'm getting there. None of this makes sense! I go over it and over it, trying to get a handle on it. Maybe some you feel the same, like the little things that are setting these people off are ridiculous and we have to suffer for it.

Parent-child conflict has been the stuff of myth & legend for thousands of years. Shakespeare got his best material from family conflict, so I know it's not limited to this generation of young people, but it does seem more prevalent now (or else we're aware of it 'cos it's happening to us, like noticing all the pregnant women when we're pregnant.)

I just hope my poor husband can survive my mood swings - hysterical laughter over the absurdity of the accusations one minute, and crying over the tradgedy of it all the next. Maybe there's a book or screen play in this for someone!
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: just2baccepted on November 01, 2009, 03:12:22 pm
I think other counselors are probably better.  I guess you have to keep paying money till you land on one who is not so cruel. 

Yes, I would say keep looking if you don't jive w/ the first counselor you go to.  Its kind of of like having a special relationship with someone, you need a counselor you can connect with.  Its not like your dentist or doctor where you go in and see them for five minutes and they throw pills at you.  With a counselor you're working on the most complex part of you, your brain/emotions.

I may not be able to relate to the fractures adult child/mother relationship but I do know what its like to have a close family and then it become fractured.  In our family it was just two people that caused the fracture.  Both of them suffering mental breakdowns or illness and/or drug/alchol abuse.  It fractured the family because everyone in our family had to take sides.  The way I dealt with it was by not going around these two people anymore.  Holidays are the hardest for me because thats a time to spend with family but DH and spend most holidays alone now.  I've thought about taking a trip somewhere but I was afraid of booking airline tickets and then the weather ending up being crappy so we have yet to attempt that one. 

As to dealing with it.  I've tried to force myself to accept that what I cannot change.  I can't make my sister treat me with respect and not do drugs or marry a man with a rap sheet nor can I keep my uncle who was like a father to me from being sexually attracted to me.  It was hard but I had to let these people go.  Its difficult at times but I try to look at the positives in my life.  I have my health, a job I like, a sweet DH, and furry sweet canine children that I wouldn't trade anything for.  Its just that missing out on a close family that I miss terribly.  The thing is if I had never experienced a close family I wouldn't know what I'm missing but I did experience it and it was great.  I keep thinking that the more time passes the easier it will get or the closeness and happiness our family once shared will dissipate from my memory.  My goal now if to concentrate on making new memories that I can smile upon in my old age.  I keep telling myself that close family I once had is now apart of my past, its my history. And I know that I have to leave it there and not pine over it anymore because all it does is make me sad.  So that's how I deal with my fractured family.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 01, 2009, 03:36:52 pm
Dear Penstamen and J2b,
So true, so true what both of you are saying.  It does seem like the highth (I am trying to spell heighth but I can't)  of insanity to go over and over every little detail of this and never having a conclusion

Somebody shoot me, please!!

I did go to a good counselor a few times. She got another job, though so I had to quit.  She told me that no child should have to endure what I did.  She said that what I feel now when I'm hurt is exactly how I felt at age 7 when my father told me my Mother was dead.  She was wonderful.

I realize that I'm ruining my life going over and over it. This little family was all I had.  My life as a child was a tragedy. It has so affected my health and my husband's.  Of course, men are not as broken about things like this but mine gets emotional when he says: "I gave them my whole life".  He never cries, though.  He says that she (DIL) will never know from him that she has hurt him.  He will not give her that pleasure.

I want answers too, Penstamen.  I've got to either release it, like J2b says or die. There's no stopping it, though. 

Yes, a play, a hit on Broadway would be perfect. "My Life"...the story about a Mother who lost her life to her Daughter in law.  I think it would close the same day.  The DILs would throw popcorn at it. 
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: just2baccepted on November 01, 2009, 05:18:26 pm
I did go to a good counselor a few times. She got another job, though so I had to quit.

When you say she got another job, is she still a counselor??  If she is you could follow her to whatever clinic or practice she now works for, that is if she still accepts your insurance. 

I'm a firm believer in counseling.  My DH doesn't care for it, he thinks it takes too long.  But men are logical and want to fix things quickly and logically, but family/people problems can be so complex.  Sometimes its not about fixing the problems but learning how to cope and get up each morning and not feel the sting of these family issues.  I always feel better when I walk out of their office.  I've not been in a long time because I feel like I have entered acceptance mode but it still makes me sad, mainly during holidays. 

One special memory that I have that is no longer is when my mom and I used to go out to my aunt and uncles house.  me, my mom, and aunt would sit at their kitchen table and talk for two hours, just girl talk.  I miss that so much.  We did that for years, even when I was a teen.   But then when my uncle turned into a dirty old man horny toad, I had to make a decision.  Continuing that special kitchen table time and checking my dignity at the door or walking away with some dignity; I chose the latter.  When the three of us girls would be sitting at the table my uncle would come in and pull up a chair really close to me and have his hands all over me.  It was disgusting.  He asked me if I was turned on by his smell.  I thought, "what the heck am I supposed to say to that one?" His SIL and wife are sitting right there!  I actually considered asking this man to walk me down the aisle because he was a father to me when my own father was too busy chasing younger women to be a father.  So it was such a blow for him to become this way with me.

I may have to let go of those memories but I've made new ones that are special.  I snorkeled for the first time and that was amazing!  And then those times where my DH and I rent a movie and get Subway sandwiches.  And I plan to continue to make special memories.  Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 01, 2009, 05:44:59 pm
Unfortunately, she left to go to work for a company and no longer does individual counseling.  If she did, I'd figure out some way to go.  I remember when I walked in the first time the feeling like I was going to the Guillotine.  It was scary.

Memories of the sweet things of the past are so easy to slip back into.  I had to disengage from a close family member because of her adult pervert son.  She should have been protecting her grandchildren but she chose him to protect at all cost. This was not the person who raised me but someone close. 

I think some Mothers choose to protect the weak one or the one they think needs them the most.  This is what she did.  I'm beginning to think that if you can avoid casting out someone you love, do it if you can.  I regret what I did.  At the time I was trying to protect myself from this monster and my grandchildren who might ever be around him.  I never saw her again. 

It's so strange that even when someone dies, their memory lives on and somehow they never really die. They either leave a mark of good or bad.  I don't want to leave a bad mark.   

That's why that saying, "be kinder than necessary because everyone you know is going through some kind of battle whether you know it or not" is so very true!!!

I wonder if that holds true for Daughters in law?  Surely it does.  They are fighting a battle too but because they're so rude (mine is), it's hard to remember to be kinder than necessary. 

I'm going to lose my mind if I don't do something, though.  I hate the holidays.  I dread them.  I'm rambling.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 02, 2009, 05:39:00 am
Hi Everyone:
I have to be very honest when I say that since writing to this forum, I feel much better in knowing I am not alone in this situation.  This forum is like a sound board to express the hurt and hearing from people that have nothing to hide (as you don't know them) and reveal their honest feelings. I have very close friends, that never never tell me that they have problems with their adult children ---to them everything is wonderful, wonderful.  So I have learned not to say too much to anyone, which I hold inside and dwell and dwell on our family's fracturing.  The hardest times for me, are the holidays, which stems back to the big family get-togethers my mother had, and when I got married, I wanted my mother to have a break, so I continued on.  It was wonderful - - sometimes 20-30 people came, I even invited people/friends who had no where to go.  Like I said previously, my SIL's never rotated the holiday meals.  My mother and I did not care if they did, as long as we were all together, then my brothers' moved far way after Mom passed on and holidays have never been the same.  I continued all the holiday traditions with my children and tried to invite as many people as I could who were alone, but sadly something was always missing. Oh, how I miss seeing all my children and grandchildren on holidays if only my son knew how much he is hurting us by not being in our lives. I will not stoop to sending presents still to his children, as I know that his wife throws out everything I send.  Before the complete break between my son, he told if you want to give to my children, do not expect any thanks from his wife, just call me over and give me the money or gifts and I will give it to the children. After the break from our son (so much to this story)I just put money on each of the children's account that we started when they were born,  My son and his wife do not know what I do, but that does not matter as I do it for the grandchildren.  I keep up a letter to each grandchild, in the letter which I keep adding to, I tell them of our love for them and due to circumstances beyond our control, we are sorry that we cannot see them.  When the grandchildren reach a comprehension level, I plan on giving the letter to each grandchild for them to make their own decision, whether they want to see us.  As we grow older, we plan to make a copy of the letters and attach the "diary letters" to our Will (as they arenamed in our wills).
The purpose of me keeping up each letter, in which I tell them that I think of them often and remember that your Nanny & Grandpa love you very much.  This up to date letter for the grandchildren was told to us by our lawyer, a very good friend,who had similar clients with the same isolation from their family, and wanted to leave a legacy of love for the grandchildren, which one day will make them feel that we did care and hopefully, if they had wondered about us, will bring peace in their hearts.  Once a month I just type a few lines to each letter, stored on my computer, put the date, and always add- remember that you were never out our minds and we love you dearly. 
I am  going to try to practice the same steps that I have learned at Al-Anon . LET GO AND LET GOD.
Believe me I hurt every minute of the day for the loss of my son and his family but I must get stronger in order to be a good wife and a mother and grandmother to my other children. I will try to practice the steps every day and will let everyone know how I am doing.
Best regards to all you in the same predicament.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: just2baccepted on November 02, 2009, 10:21:05 am
That was very sad to read.  Your pain is very evident.  But I know what you mean about the holidays.  I'm still trying to come up with ideas for things for DH and I to do so we won't feel icky during these times.

My mom told me that her brother cut off their mom because my grandma left their father and she made some bad choices in life.  As my mom put "momma loved to have a good time."  Apparently my grandma was a drinker and liked to get around.   But my mom said that she was still a really good mom and was always there for her kids.  But apparently my mom's brother felt upset because she left his father.  My mom said that my grandmas always regretted leaving their father, it seems like they always do.  My dad kicked us out for a younger women and then begged my mom to come back, she said no though.  I could always tell how sad he was about it because when I'd come to visit him he would just hug me and sob like a baby.  He realized what he did was wrong.  But it was upsetting for a 12 year old to see her father like that.

But my grandma died in her sixties of carbon minoxide poisoning and her and her son never got to rectify their issues.  I remember my mom telling me she dreaded getting letters and calls from her mom because she'd be complaining about how her son treats her and never visits or calls.  So I believe that this is a common thing, fractured families.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 02, 2009, 05:54:08 pm
Dear Just2baccepted:
My dear when I read your posts, you have endured a lot of painful events in your life and I feel that
you miss having family connections.  I also sense that you are very sensitive to others and their grief from having fractures such as we are writing about.  I believe that putting into words the daily memories of disappointments and hurt we have/or experienced, may lessen as we reach out to others in this forum.  It is especially sad around this time of year, Xmas approaching, when you know as it gets closer, there are parts of your family that you will not hear from or see.  I really do not have the answers, again this year or the last few years, how to cope.  The only mechanisms that seem to work for me, is decorating the house as if I am having a mass of company and keeping myself busy with making a point of getting together with some lady friends/and having a few couples over.  When you get older, these feats take up most of your concentration and energy.
I wish that families would get along, and not concentrate on petty things, as life is so short and frictions take up so much of a persons energy.  It is sad to say, we can pick our friends but not our family but at the same time we can tell a friend why we are annoyed with them and you get over it after discussing how you feel.  With family and children, it is held with grievances.
I seemed to be rattling on and I apologize.

Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 02, 2009, 07:00:48 pm
I agree, Louey, J2b is a precious person. I wish I could get hold of her MIL and I would let her know that she is missing out on one tender hearted soul who just wanted to be cared for.

I honestly think I could tell her MIL off and I can't tell anyone off. I'd rally for her, though.  She deserves it....all the heartbreak in her life has made her a sensitive soul. 
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: just2baccepted on November 02, 2009, 07:23:38 pm
Thank you everyone for the nice words, I appreciate it a great deal.  :)

The only mechanisms that seem to work for me, is decorating the house as if I am having a mass of company and keeping myself busy

I do the same thing. I like to decorate the house and then another thing that DH and I do in the month of December is we go up to this historical town and spend the night in one their old historical hotels.  Then we go see their Christmas play and then they put on all sorts of Christmas related things and its all done with a Victorian flair.  I look forward to that every year.  I just got done booking the room and tickets for the play a couple days ago.  So that helps.  But the actual day of Christmas is usually spent alone.  Its just that specific day that reminds you or having bad family relationships or the fact that we can't have kids.  But you know I try not to feel sorry for myself.  Because I have much to be thankful for.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 03, 2009, 06:56:14 am
Dear 2chickiebaby:
I second the vote for just2beaccepted.  She seems so sensitive to others plights and really does not put down the people in her life who have caused her so much pain, , she just is relaying her story.
If I had  such a sensitive loving person like her as a DIL or even another daughter, she would be my pick.
What I am finding out, since writing on this forum, that there are so many nice people out there who can read into your pain and they are actually going through their own trials and tribulations, but find the time to make you feel good.  I myself, had made a resolution (not a New Year's one) but a permanent resolution - to be more attentive to strangers especially the elderly, giving them a smile, asking how they are today/or boy! do you like nice today.  I tried this yesterday at Zellers, because are so many widows/widowers and they appear sad and lonely.  I made a point of walking up to a table with three elderly ladies having coffee, and I said Good Morning Girls and I would sometimes turn around and joke with them.  Their faces were lit up, as I left they said to me HAVE A GOOD DAY YOUNG LADY - - there was not an extreme difference in our ages.  This made me feel good and hopefully it also made these lovely ladies day more cheery.
I too am very sensitive, and here in lies my problems, I am always trying to make other people happy and their happiness brings great joy to me.  Unfortunately, the kindness is not noticed or appreciated and this is where my problems lies.  What do I want!  I want just a Thank You not Thanks and some show of appreciation on their faces.
Here, I go again rattling on, but when I write on this form I feel like to am talking to friends.
Regards
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 03, 2009, 07:35:54 am
You are talking to friends, Louey.  I think we're all the same on here, sensitive souls...too sensitive for our own good. J2B is one of us.

I love what you did yesterday for the ladies and I do find that I am better making someone happy.  It makes me happy. 

Today is one of the worst days of my life...I feel like if I start crying, I'll never stop.  I've wondered what is going to become of me.  I can't seem to face the fact that this has happened to us.  It has been 16 years and I'm still the same. 

I have to go to close DILs and have Thanksgiving with son and distant DIL.  The thought of it makes me so sad.  I can't be myself.  If I don't go, Thanksgiving and Christmas will be over forever for my husband and me.  I have nowhere to turn.  I can't ask them, "why?" because I will be called a manipulator, needy, dramatic, a guilter...

I just have it all back in my lap and can't get rid of it.  It's like a cancer that has landed on me.  Sorry for the ramblings.  Looks like after all this time I'd get used to this but it never leaves me. 
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 03, 2009, 08:28:37 am
Dear 2chickiebaby:
What is making you so sad and why are you not looking forward to being with your DIL's, am I being too nosy?
I know exactly how you feel, I encountered the same feelings the few days that my son & DIL invited us over for one of the children's birthday party.  I was completely ignored, what I brought over (at my son's request, perogyi, cabbage rolls, cole slaw, baking etc.).  The food was not acknowledged by my DIL or her family, and in some cases they took a bite of the food.  My present was never opened and sometimes was thrown (my son told me, which he should have not, when he had a fight with his mate).  He told me straight, you will never receive thanks from her so call us over (my son and children) and give it to them at your house.  Her hatred for me, especially, was so evident.  When I went over, I would just leave the food on the counter and go and circulate with their company.  Everyone else was very pleasant and I always try to have a good time, even under these strained conditions.  When leaving, my DIL and her family never walked us to the door or said thanks you for anything and goodbye and thank you for coming.  So the last few times we went over, I went over empty handed, and I actually did not feel bad.  On  few occasions I was busy playing in the backyard with my grandchildren and did not notice people going into the house, until my husband came out and said don't you want to eat.  I was never called in to eat and when my DIL was in the backyard asking people what they would like to drink, she always bypassed me. Believe it or not, it hurt a little, but I always said to myself, judge where it comes from. Manners and respect have to be taught by your parents and I can state her parents did not have any of these qualities.  I am not saying we are any better than them only that these traits are taught and I tried to teach them to my children and that Is one of the things that made proud, how they thanked people and treated other people with respect (maybe not with me, but with others).
When you go to these functions, keep busy talking to other guests or play with the children or just sit and watch and talk to your husband. Forget about the people who are making you sad- if you show this weakness, remember they are gaining strength and to themselves they say "I gotcha".  When mothers like us have to face a difficult situation like yours, we must remember to focus on other things at the function.
Please be strong, think of nice things and most of all remember to like yourself and it will shine through, maybe not to your DIL's but who care's anyways, as long as you are still invited, it is a meal out and you get to see people who you love.  Nothing is wrong with you, if people cannot deal with you - - it is their problem.  I like you and I don't even know youbut your sensitive nature shows through in your writings and that is what I like in people, sensitivity and caring.

Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 03, 2009, 08:36:38 am
Thank you, Louey,
What is making me so sad is all the things you mentioned in your situation.  I feel like a punching bag.  I can't understand how anyone can be cruel to someone's Mother and get away with it.

I am going to try to concentrate on what you said to do and try to pay attention to the kids.  That helps.  Thank you.  It leaves Christmas to get through now too.  Too much for me.  I'm not expecting anything but DIL picking up the check for her kids and off she goes.  That's why she's coming. 

I don't understand being used.  Anyway, thank you so much
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: mom2 on November 03, 2009, 09:53:02 am
Our family has been dysfunctional for 10 Yrs. now and it still rips me apart. Although we are distant and I have peace ( as far as my sanity ) it still hurts so much. I wish I just knew what happened or what the problem is and maybe I could work on fixing it. I am human so I won't say I never did anything wrong but it was not intentional if I did.

Every other year or so we get invited to our sons/Dils for a Christmas or Thanksgiving dinner but it's uncomfortable because I really don't feel like I'm wanted ( more out of maybe an obligation ? ). I have tried to, when I'm there, to focus on the grandson but later hear that I had insulted DIL by not paying more attention to her, however, if I sit where she's at I don't even get spoken to so what is the happy medium?? OMG!! I just wish I had an answer.

J2B,
You are a young woman/DIL and you seem to be so very sweet and genuine, maybe you can tell us what you would like to have in a MIL ( as far as, how much should she do and when is it that she has crossed the line?).
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 03, 2009, 10:48:53 am
I know what you mean, Mom2....you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.  It is totally hopeless. 

If you show weakness to the DIL, she takes that as a victory, like a lion. If you show strength, she takes that as an insult.  I am weak anyway so it will be a miracle if I can hold up under this. 

There is no middle ground and we will all have to post our stories of what we did on that day.  I used to love this time of year...not now.  Too hard on us. 

We can each think of each other on that day so we will know we're not alone in this. 
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Pen on November 03, 2009, 11:29:23 am
For sure, I'll be thinking of everyone. I will enjoy whatever I can, even if it's just one little thing. Right now I have a centerpiece on the table with small pumpkins, candles, pomegranates, and red and gold leaves from my liquid ambar and flowering pear. It makes me smile to see it. Speaking of smiling, I'm just now remembering a lesson from "the FlyLady" (google it.) She mostly helps people get organized, but sometimes her wisdom is transferable (like Luise.) She says if it doesn't make you smile, get it out of your life! And, you can do anything for 15 minutes. If I have to take Thanksgiving 15 mins at a time, that's what I'll do.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 03, 2009, 12:02:58 pm
Dear chickiebaby:
I just had a thought reading your post wherein you said :dammed if you do dammed if you don't"--
my thought was why not just be ourselves, feel comfortable as being normally ourselves and damm to everyone".  I see no reason, that we have to plan ahead, what to say, what to do, what not too say and what not to do.  I would rather just attend whatever function and let the cards fall as they may.  There is too much wasted energy on our parts to be careful not to step on anyone's toes.  You would not act that way around a group of friends, you try to make confortable and let yourself be you.  Why must we wear a cloak to hide our true personalities. One thing, that I know what to control, and it usually works.  I always go into these dinners hoping to meet new people and have a good time.  If the people who are indifferent to you and the way you act, again "tough luck" you get what you see.  Never comprise with your true nature.  If you tend to be quiet, remain your usual way, if you tend to be one of the party, also continue that way.  I am sure that if you go to any function and be yourself, after the party, quests will say to DIL/son, what a nice mother and lots of fun not  stick in the mud which is exactly what your DIL's are or they would practice on being a good hostess and give everyone an equally good time.  If yours/or mine DIL's continue their nasty ways, I can guarantee that they will be lonely old women with no contact from their children-this is "pay back time". I believe one reason that most DIL's dislike us, is that they cannot overcome their insecurities with our sons and want them only to themselves, in their minds, is there is no room for another woman to love her mate.  You  are not considered "the mother" you are considered another woman.  I might add at this time, that I find most men have no 'back'bones' when it comes down to their wives and their mothers - - they will always take the side of their wife.  Don't forget they have to live with them and get the daily flack.  I believe we should have a forum with comments to sons, making them understand that mothers do have a place in line and we do not want them back or to break up their union.  "We just want to be mothers who are needed sometimes and shown love and appreciation. We want to be part of their family and do not want to put on facade, we want to be able to enjoy each other normally.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: just2baccepted on November 03, 2009, 12:19:28 pm
J2B,
  maybe you can tell us what you would like to have in a MIL ( as far as, how much should she do and when is it that she has crossed the line?).


Before I met my DH my sister was married to a guy w/ a really big, close family.  They got together regularly.  You name it, b-days, holidays, etc.  My BIL's sister's husband's mother was killed in the OKC bombing so her husband got a significant amount of money, so he bought a lakehouse, a large boat, and a sea-do.  Everybody would meet at the lakehouse and go out on the boat and have a great time.  My BIL would ask me to go along b/c I didn't have a boyfriend or DH so I guess he felt sorry for me.  But I tell you what I had a great time with his family.  They even invited me over for Christmas.  They would all sit around the table and play cards and other board games.  How fun!!  They were so nice and accepting of me and they weren't even my IL's!!  Not only were they accepting of my sister but they accepted her tag along little sister as well!  So I guess I had a colored view of what IL's would be like. I was in for a rude awakening.

I would have loved to have IL's like this.  But at the same time I would want all that to be scheduled and I don't think I'd like drop ins b/c I would want my house to look decent before someone dropped by.  With IL's like my sister used to have I would love to have seen them maybe 3-4X a month or even more.  Dinner, BBQ's, playing cards for sure, lake visits definitely.  But then again just my personality but I like my down time as well and my DH really does.  So sheduled visits would be the best for me.  My mom says I'm not spontaneous enough.  She says I act too old.  I tell her I just prefer to plan things out, that's just the way I am.  Shopping, craft fairs etc. with a nice MIL would be great.  I was really looking for MIL to be like a friend to me, but that wasn't meant to be.  I would like to have a family that was treated like a group of good friends. ( I hate to report but my sister lost this wonderful family, by choosing drugs over her family, she lost her DH and her wonderful children.  She sees them but has no custody.)

Well w/ the IL's that I have now I would have to say a very limited relationship since my MIL tries to tear me down to my DH.  So I just don't trust her anymore.  Nice to my face but vile behind my back.  I could be forgiving and let it slide but my fear is that her comments about me would affect the way my DH feels about me.  He admits that early in the marriage his mom probably did have an effect on how he looked at me.  I remember saying to him a lot, "you make me feel like I'm a bad person."  What a punch in the gut for me to find years later was because his mom's disapproval of me and comments about me to him WERE in fact having an effect on how he looked a me. 

DH has apologized and insisted he will never let his mom color his thinking about me again.  After all this has occurred and I've had time to really look at the situation I believe this:  something happened in my MIL's childhood to make her insecure and extremely jealous and territorial.  That this has nothing to do w/ me but her insecurities.  And my just being in her son's life has magnified those insecurities.  That's my take on it.






She says if it doesn't make you smile, get it out of your life! And, you can do anything for 15 minutes

Oh boy I like that!  That's the motto I plan to live by from now on, I just hope it doesn't make me become selfish.  I want to protect myself from abuse w/o being selfish. 
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 03, 2009, 01:25:17 pm
That's just the problem....I'm the life of the party kind of person and it makes her extremely nervous. I absolutely do not want to come across as bragging but I guess I am...people really like to be with me.  I make them laugh and they have a good time no matter what they're doing.  My brother is very funny too.  He cracks me up. 

A friend said recently, "you cannot NOT be funny.  It's not possible"

The other problem is that whatever I'm feeling shows on my face.  I can't hide it, although I try so hard.  I don't tell jokes, I just make people laugh...something about my facial expressions or something.  It's gotten to the point where people say:  "is Chickie coming"?  When I'm not going to whatever it is they seem just like it's not worth going.

Gosh, I have such responsibility!!  Have I totally bragged on myself enough here? 

The DIL hates it.  She thinks it's stupid....yes, it's stupid that's why it's so funny!!!  Poor woman!!  I think I'm people's entertainment. I guess in a way I'm being used by everyone but that's okay, it makes me happy. 

An Uncle I have died and because he lived in the same town son lives, son went over to see my Aunt, whom I adore.  He called me and told me that it was overwhelming.  WHAT???  He grew up with it.  They are a ball to be around.  What has happened to our son?  Overwhelming? 

DIL and son's kids are wonderful kids, I will give her that.  Very obedient, controlled and regimented, just like she is.  It's hard to be with her because she's so controlling.  You can't have a personality around her.  She interrupts whatever you're saying to get the attention back on herself.  Son cannot laugh anymore.  Or, he chooses not to laugh anymore.  He must with her, although I can't think of anything humorous the nutcase does, ever.  When you're marching, you can't be funny. I don't know what band she's marching in but she's good.  She's on a mission. 

I'm admit that I am guilty of when son broke it off with her in the beginning, I said, "thank God".  I'm sure he told her.  I'm sure she holds that against me  ;D

The other DIL gets my sense of humor but she is controlling too.  I love her and she is better but she was raised in a tiny group of family so outsiders are not welcomed, though she has a lot of friends.  Distant DIL would love to become friends with her; it's not going to happen. 

Distant DIL cannot stand spontaneousness. She is a list maker and she can't vary from the list.  I guess I could concentrate on the length of her fingers at the meal. I've never seen such long fingers.  Her ability to scratch her head from another room would be a good Youtube thing. (I'm lying, she can't do that)  I'm also dramatic and tell great stories. Just shoot me.   >:(
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: mom2 on November 03, 2009, 01:53:29 pm
To think of each other on the holidays is such a nice thought !!! :)
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: mom2 on November 03, 2009, 02:22:32 pm
Nice suggestion.. 15 minutes is very doable and if it is uncomfortable, well 15 minutes is not too long to endure it !

J2B,

I agree with you about the planned events... I just hate it when someone just shows up and things are not how I would want company to see them ( or me for that matter ). We used to, in the beginning, do all those things, BBQ'S , board games ( my favorite ) cards, movies but no lake house etc.. but it didn't last long because my DIL is one of those women who viewed me as the other woman instead of her DH's mom. She knows her DH loves me and she is just not havin it ! You sound very reasonable in what your expectations of MIL should be. I wish it could have been different for you.

I often think of how happy I am that I only had the one son ( two Dils like her would have killed me !) but then again I could have ended up with one like you and Chickiebabys kind DIL.

I guess we all need to start focusing on the positive things ( if we can ) like the fact that I have a daughter and other grandchildren who love me.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: mom2 on November 03, 2009, 02:36:11 pm
Chickiebaby,

We must march to the same band because ( my turn to brag haha!! ) every body likes me too !!! My Dils fingers look normal but she thinks she is ' Martha Stewart ' I am more the other little woman ( can't think of her name ).
Anyway, was your son saying the Aunts sense of humor was overwhelming ? or how they acted in general or what? I know exactly what you mean; things in our family that was a running joke or just fun is way beneath our son now!!!!!!!! he goes on and on about how dumb it is or stupid... Guess he has a point since he married Martha ( she does no wrong ). Maybe I should get those turkey bones spray painted and throw em on the table huh? maybe I could , at least, impress her and son.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 03, 2009, 02:53:06 pm
It's the DIL who marches in this band, not me!!  I'm so glad we're alike, I always wanted a sister. 

My Aunt and her immediate family all talk at once.  It's hilarious, she has 4 sons...to an outsider I guess it would be overwhelming but he was raised going over there.  I think the little nutcase fruitcake, mutated freakoid wife of his thinks it's overwhelming.

How does she go on living?  She has no sense of humor at all.  I am begging you, just shoot me.  I'm a little better this evening but I was very low this morning. I don't want to go there again. 

Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 04, 2009, 05:01:28 am
Hi Everyone:
I am so excited about finding this forum that my mind has switched from my problems to writing on this forum and hearing from the members
Like I said in a previous post, what it not be intriguing if we had a subject titled "Sons and mothers"\where the sons could post their grievances against the mothers.  There are two-three sides to every store, and if we heard what are sons side, we might see another side to a story.   Any ideas  how you would get our sons to write on this forum, but it would interesting!!!!!
I know that when (only a few times) that I had a conversation with him about his wife's beef with me, he tends to change stories each time - will add to the story or make up an incident.  It always goes back to it is  his choice in a mate and she is the mother of his children.  On both of these items, I have agreed with him.  At the same time, years ago, whenever he had a disagreement or argument with her, he would come to me and "talk terrible" about her.  I would always say, I do not want to get involved, and I say this is the mother of your children and  I suggest that he try to have quite moments with her or take her out for dinner and discuss these things with her.  He never does, but by his actions with me and others, I know he his extremely unhappy with his choice as he has told a few male friends, who by the way,I  know them well and they visit us frequently.  They have told me how unhappy he is with her and they tell him "get out" see your children frequently and get on with your life.  His friends told me, that she has banned these friends from their house and told my son he is not to see them.  I am still so befuddled how a wife can have this kind of hold over her mate.  When I used to see my oldest grandchild on a regular basis, he would tell me on his own how Mommy and Daddy fight and say bad things to each other.  I told my grandson, that they love each other very much and all couples have little tiffs.  He seemed satisfied with this explanation, but it worries me that the children are exposed to this atmosphere.  My son is very hot-headed and fly's off the handle quickly and his wife is a moaner and a whiner.  What a combination, but he made his bed now he has to live with it.  Even though they seem to be unhappy with each other, I wish they would get conselling and maybe they are not mean't to be with each other.  My concern is not for their future but the future of my grandchildren.  If only we could reconcile, I believe we would be able to have a good influence over them, as we never talk about their parents and we tell the grandchildren all the time, how much we love them and they are the sunshine of our lives.
I mentioned in previous posts, that I keep a letter going to each grandchild and when I feel they are at age where they can decide if they want to see us (hopefully we are still alive) I will give the letter to them.  At the advice of our lawyer, he said to keep it up until they are anywhere from the age of 14-16 and some how get the letter to each of them, or leave copies with him and he will attach it to our wills.  He also suggested that I wrote a letter to my son and in this letter, get the facts straight and express your hurts and express the love you had for him, as you do not want him to be left with guilt all his life?   It would be so easy, if my son would just call and say he is sorry for his actions toward us and we would accept his apology eagerly and we would be able to see our grandchildren even at our house.  I am telling you very honestly and truthfully we did nothing wrong, as it was a very minor incident that grew to a mountain out of molehill and when we tried to have a discussion, he would not listen and banned us from the children. Like I said, he has a quick temper and selective hearing.  He has always been like that and we have learned to live with his personality which is very difficult at times to have a productive conversation.  It has not been the first time that he stopped us from seeing his children, each other time I have called or sent emails, asking to see the children and he has completely forgotten his actions.  This last time, I believe it cannot change, as he has told people that he has disowned us and told stories how we "screwed him" etc., - which I believe still goes back to him not getting the cottage.  It looked like he wanted the cottage before when  we were still alive; with his anger he cannot think straight and it anger is increasing.  Why would a son talk to people (some of them are our friends)and tell them that he has disowned us.  These friends have said they believe he has a "loose screw" and they have told him straight, you have good and generous parents and we cannot believe you feel this way, as we know how good they have been to you.  He even told us that we should go to a nursing home, give him the cottage, give your home and other possessions to his sisters. Shortly after the sale of the cottage, this is the point he gave it to me, but good and that is the last I have seen of the family.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 04, 2009, 05:43:41 am
Dear chickiebaby, just2baccepted, Mom2:

I hope this is not being two nosy?

Could each of you tell me, what State or Province you live in and what is the Time Zone?

I live in a very small town, in Ontario, Canada, approximately 150 miles northeast of Toronto.
We live on a country road just 2KM outside of town.  It is the Garden of Eden, neighbors next door but spaces in between the homes.  Close to many towns for shopping and extremely good neighbors whom we get together once a month, we alternate with dinners.  Even we did not have this type of social life, I think I would go crazy with all that is going on in our lives.
Now that I have talked to you all, I just want to know this little tidbit of information.
Regards Louey
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 04, 2009, 05:48:47 am
Hi Everyone:
Could you please give me the steps to adding a picture with my name?  I still relatively new to this forum writing, and I find it difficult sometimes to do certain steps.
Information on this would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 04, 2009, 07:48:39 am
I sent you a PM, Louey...
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: just2baccepted on November 04, 2009, 02:27:07 pm
Quote from: Louey0727 on November 04, 2009, 05:43:41 am
Dear chickiebaby, just2baccepted, Mom2:

I hope this is not being two nosy?

Could each of you tell me, what State or Province you live in and what is the Time Zone?

I live in a very small town, in Ontario, Canada, approximately 150 miles northeast of Toronto.
We live on a country road just 2KM outside of town.  It is the Garden of Eden, neighbors next door but spaces in between the homes.  Close to many towns for shopping and extremely good neighbors whom we get together once a month, we alternate with dinners.  Even we did not have this type of social life, I think I would go crazy with all that is going on in our lives.
Now that I have talked to you all, I just want to know this little tidbit of information.
Regards Louey


I live in Oklahoma and its central time zone.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: mom2 on November 04, 2009, 08:15:42 pm
Louey,

I live in Marshall Illinois and it is central time zone.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: just2baccepted on November 04, 2009, 08:38:47 pm
Louey - I hate to go totally off topic here but I was wondering something since you said you're in Canada.  Do you like your universal health care system?  As you know our government is trying to implement something like that but not all the way single payer.  Do you like it?  Is there rationing?  Do you have to wait a long time for procedures?  And what if you get something like cancer?  We get all sorts of different info over here about it.  I'm a little nervous because I really like my health insurance and my health care and doctor and not having to wait. 

Not trying to get political here just curious about this.  Sorry about going off topic, maybe I should have put this in the grab bag.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 05, 2009, 05:02:50 am
Dear just2baccepted:
Firstly, we would be broke if we would have to pay for my husband's medications.  The cost of his total monthly meds are approximately $700.00 for 4 different meds and we pay the fillers fee, which is 6.11 each X 4 = $24.44.  This is one of the benefits everyone here would hate to lose; when you turn 65 years old the Ontario Hospital Insurance Plan is what covers us.  Yes, there are long waits for procedures and emergency wards, but there are many reasons for that, which I cannot put in writing.  There is a shortage of doctors, as the government puts a cap on the doctor's earnings, and we lost many doctor's to the US.  Some time back they implemented the GST Tax (Goods and Service Tax) which some doctors' rebelled against and again they left here for the US.  Our emergency wards at the hospital get filled with unnecessary people coming in because the visits are free, and where they come from, it is not, so they take up space and will sit for hours on hours.  If I want to see my doctor (if not serious) I will wait up to three weeks to see him and have sat in his office up 4 hours to see him.  He is a dedicated doctor who cannot refuse patients, but he is on overload.  Since it is impossible to get another doctor, we put up with the waits. If you have cancer, we have excellent cancer hospitals here, sometimes there are waits but other times you will get appointment immediately.  You have to weigh the pros ad cons.  I have heard that in the states, if you are elderly and do not have money, you cannot afford the prescriptions or you do not take the recommended dosage's space the meds not taking the actual amount every day, because you cannot afford the repeats?  We are not used to the waits for procedures and specialized doctors, we gripe and complain, but we put up with it.  There are not too many people here, that cannot  afford to pay out of their pocket private doctors and the necessary medications.  All in all, it comes down to, do not get sick and try to stay healthy.  Where I live, the elderly really look after themselves, eating right, exercising and they get involved with many programs.  This keeps them active and happy.  I believe that stress is the number one factor for getting sick or get diseases, so my answer is we try to stay fit and healthy.  When we have been away on holidays to Northern Ontario (North Bay, Ontario) and I was having a reaction to a new drug (for high blood pressure) I found that the pharmacists were just as good as the doctors in answering questions about meds.  In our town, we worship and rely on our drugstore/pharmacist for answers and this stand true for many drug stores - the pharmacist knows your history and if a med is being prescribed, he will call you and advise that you do not take the new drug as it can interfere with other drugs you are taking.
I could go on and on, but I hope this is helpful.
Regards, Louey
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: just2baccepted on November 05, 2009, 10:28:12 am
I've always heard that we have the best health care system in the world. I guess that's why many people from other countries come here for certain treatments.  Its so dissappointing to me that some of our leaders want to destroy that and its looking more and more like they're going to get that chance.  :'(  Thanks for your response although it was very disheartening.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Pen on November 05, 2009, 11:11:47 am
I've got to jump in here, but only briefly :)

Get all the facts. Please don't just listen to one side or the other.

A large number of housing foreclosures in the states are due to people with medical problems that took all their incomes. In countries with single-payer they do not have foreclosures or bankruptcies due to medical emergencies and subsequent loss of insurance. Our wonderful, cutting edge medical treatments are only available to those who can afford them!

My husband and I have a fabulous HMO, but if he were to lose his job we'd be out of luck. I doubt we'd be able to pay for it or even be able to qualify for other insurance.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 05, 2009, 04:13:44 pm
To Penstamen:
I found your post very interesting and informative.
Could you explain to me what you mean't when you said "in countries with single-payer they do not have foreclosures" - - what do you mean by "single-payer".  I hope you do not think I am stupid.
Thank you
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: just2baccepted on November 05, 2009, 04:20:40 pm
Louey I thought that's what Canada has a single-payer.  I thought that's when everyone pays into one big pot and the gov. runs the health care.  Its kindof like our social security and medicare systems, if you're familiar with those.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 06, 2009, 06:45:10 am
Dear just2baccepted:
I never have heard the expression "single-payer"., but I think I get the drift of what it means.
I live in Ontario Canada, and every province in Canada, has a different name and for their medical plan.  Her in Ontario, it is called the Ontario Health Insurance Plan (OHIP).  If you really are interested in our Health Plan, go to www.google.ca and type in OHIP or who funds OHIP and their many sites you can visit and it gives the details.  Like I said, every province has a different name, i.e., In British Columbia, you probably could go to google again, and type British Columbia Health Plan.  How we personally pay for coverage (do not know how other residents pay) since we are retired, when we file our Income Tax Returns a certain amount for OHIP is non-credit allowances and it is based on your Income.  Chances are if you have a very very low income or do not work and under the age of 65, you will not have this non-credit allowance and you are not taxed.
I hope this helps somewhat?
Louey
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 06, 2009, 03:06:00 pm
I am very very sad today.
As you probably have read my previous posts, regarding my son who has disowned us and told us we would never see his children again and have not seen my grandchildren for over a year.  My son talks to one of my daughters, and he told her that his oldest son (the love of my life whom I had an instant connection with and him with me) keeps asking about me and my husband (Nanny and Grandpa).  Since my daughter has brain damage, she does get the facts straight, but she has said it more than once.  I have not disgussed our alienation from my son, because she would not comprehend the situation.  All I said, why does my son (her brother) not call us, she told me, he said he sent many emails, saying how my grandson misses us (this is so untrue and such a FIB).  If I received such an email, I would be running over to see my grandson, not matter, how I was treated.  Just the fact that he wants to see me, I will go through hell and fire.  I believe my son knows that my daughter tells me things, and he either wants to hurt me even more OR this is his way of some form of contact--even it means tourturing me.  "What do you mothers think"?
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 06, 2009, 03:18:28 pm
OH LOUEY!!  I don't know what to think...would your daughter be able to understand exactly what he told her?  Maybe if you'd just act like nothing ever happened and gather the courage and call him? 

Would that be something you could do?  Call and say that Daughter said they had spoken to each other and he wanted to see the Grandson? 

What does everyone else think?  I just can't stand this boxed in thing!!
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: Louey0727 on November 06, 2009, 03:41:54 pm
I cannot call my son, as I stated before he has told me 'point blank and to others' that he has disowned us and in his eyes were are dead.  By calling, I know with his hot temper and his inability to listen or reason, that I am in for more painful reactions.
This is definitely a "no" and believe I am not being stubborn, this history of my son holding grudges and not talking to us, goes back a long way.  As mentioned in previous posts, he completely lost it when we did not give him the cottage that we sold.  Never in my wildest imagination, would I believe that I reared this man.  We once were so close and he was a good son for many years, he changed in so many ways after he started to have children and the finally the sale of the cottage.
Of course, his mates hatred for us helped the tension further.
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 06, 2009, 04:43:38 pm
I'm sorry, Louey,  I had to be away for a few minutes. Oh my gosh, I just wonder if it would do any good to call the DIL?  I just don't know what could work......if only there was someone who knows you both who could intervene for you.

I'm worried about you.......
Title: Re: Our son's hatred for us for a promise not kept
Post by: mom2 on November 06, 2009, 08:59:38 pm
Louey,

It sort of sounds like both.. if your son knows that his sister will repeat things then he wants you to hear it and he may also be trying to make contact in his own way. I have had this happen too ( son telling other family members so I would hear it). I am so sorry for you ( and all of us ).