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Smiles:  You make me smile too when you say...you don't want to pile your kids and wife into the car and live at a campsite.If this isn't something I would say I don't know what is and you certainly don't want to live in your car with irritable bowel syndrome (sorry, Smiles, not to make fun, I know about ABS firsthand)..and camping.... ...I understand about all those emotions you are going through...lots of difficult stuff.  But you know, jail is not always the worst place: a place to sleep, meals.  Going to jail for parking tickets is way different from going to jail for horrible things.  You say he is smart and a saver...well this just doesn't fit the picture of a guy who will end up in jail. He might want you to think that, but....Don't let him control your mood.  Write down a couple of "just say no" responses, memorize them and then just repeat them instead of getting into any conversation with him about money.  "Can't talk about this now, the dishwasher just ran over," "Gosh, I love you but every extra cent went to the (plumber, caterer, pizza guy)...Son, I bet you can figure it out.  Hang in there, bye now."   I find that using lightness and ending the conversation is the best key to tough love.  And you do not have to turn him away, the hard part is to love him and tell him no.  He might turn away for awhile but he will know you love him no matter.   The best of wishes to you....

Smiles: Hugs to you....You say that you are done with "trying to figure out what he needs to do."  That is a key statement.  Yup, he needs to figure out his own path.  I remember my DS doing similar stuff and I felt so bad.  Until I found out he had a support network of friends who were keeping him entertained and in food.  I cut out feeling so sorry for him then. He made it through, now has a wonderful job and family...nevermind that he isn't speaking to me right now    but that is his problem.  Keep on staying strong!! 

JMM: I can sure feel your pain and I wish I had some magic wand to make this all easier for all of us, but life is not like that.  I sense this great pride in how you brought her up (BRAVO BRAVO APPLAUSE) and gave her the gift of a wonderful education. I think it's difficult for young people (never excusing bad behavior, mind you) but on one hand she is "barely making it," and an adult and on the other hand she is still tethered to mom and dad by the health insurance.  If it were me, I would start by stating a date when she has to be totally independent. No blame or shame, just "It's time now for you to be independent of us financially."  In the back of her mind might be this power over her that she is still being "taken care of" and she compensates for it by being independent in other ways (not calling, etc.). I hope you can stop being embarrassed, as this is just how independent AC sometimes are, and even the best parents in the world will have these stories, as you will read in all our posts.  Just my thoughts, always take what you want and disregard the rest like Luise tells us.  Sending hugs to you, keep posting.  We support you. 

BTW, my nieces are in similar situations and one niece behaves just like your DD, while the other is very attentive.  And the parents pay for this and that and always pick up the tab for all meals, take them shopping for new clothes, buy the airline tickets, car insurance, etc. My sis is embarrassed to say that she never gets cards, etc, but I know she doesn't.  I never say anything to my sis, but one of these days these lovely young women (26 and 30) will have to live on their own incomes.  period. That will be very difficult for them, sad to say.     

OK, now I see. Thank you.  Sorry for all your loss.  How are things going for you today?  Hope you are finding a little light shining through. 

Welcome, O.  I have a similar situation.  I, too, worry about my daughter because of the control SIL has.  Like you, I worry about what goes on.  But, the WW are correct when we have to step back.  Our DD are with these guys for some reason. Hard to step back. They protect them and cater to them and perhaps neither SIL or DD  want us to see what goes on behind the scenes. Good that you can see your GK, that's so important for them.  Keep posting.

Welcome, Jlma:  I just need a clarification on this sentence. About 6 months after that she decided to cut me out of her and the childrens life as well.  Was this your sister who cut you out? 

I'm sorry your sister had to deal with illness, is she still with you? Please pardon me if your post is obvious, sometimes I miss details.
I understand about the tearing away of our children, even if they are adults it still is devastating to not have that closeness.  I don't know of anybody on this site (and there are very wise women here) who understands the behavior of their AC in these situations.  It cannot be made sense of.  And if we dwell on trying to understand it it can cause all kinds of emotional upsets, like nightmares.  I think the most important thing is to not take responsibility for their bad treatment.  This is not how you raised them.  It is so difficult, I know that pain and all the WW here know that pain, that's why we are such a support for each other.  There is life for ourselves beyond our AC.  Keep posting, it helps if we write these things out. 

When I have a nightmare I immediately turn on the light rather than lay there, find a book or magazine to take my mind off the anxiety.  Then if things still seem scary I cuddle my cats, who seem to know and purr the loudest to soothe me.  Good wishes to you. 

I am grateful for the loyal friends I have
I am grateful for my wonderful family, even in the hard times
I am grateful for my excellent health
I am grateful because I live in a beautiful part of the world
I am grateful because I can travel
I am grateful for the hundreds of birds at my feeders
I am grateful for my peaceful home
I am grateful for my meaningful work
I am thankful for my birthday on Thanksgiving and for the support of WW in my "wobbly" thread. 

MU: One thing I heard a long time ago that made sense to me is: Does your situation resemble a circle (going round and round on the same issues) or a spiral (making forward movement even if small)?  It seems, as I read your posts, that for every issue we respond to you bring up three more issues.  I sounds like more than WWU can help with other than to send you our caring.  As you say, deep resentment like this has turned into depression for you.  Stop and read and then read again the wisdom of the women here, listen carefully to what is being shared, we care. 

Thank you again for your suggestions.  Pen, that is a great idea.  I always try to get my sis away from the family deal but she has a DH who is nothing without her right there and he pouts when she has any life without him.  Once in awhile she can get away and we always have so much fun.  In fact, I was talking about having knee surgery and she was all excited to come stay with me!!!  (A real excuse).

Doe: I'm with you on the solstice; I usually try have some kind of celebration then.  I have spent quite a few Thanksgivings on the road and I always look for some diner that is likely to have the best pumpkin pie!!  Good idea about a mini-vacation day!  Cabin with a fireplace and a stack of books and a nice bottle of wine sounds great to me.  You got me thinking now...out of the box!! 

Pooh:  That is the SWEETEST thing....thank you.  Who cares how somebody sounds when they sing HBD?  It's the thought that counts and you count a lot.  It is just the best place to come to when I feel all sad n' stuff...lol.  Such a great family we have here!! 

MU:  My heart goes out to you. I send you strength and hope for better days.  One thing is that you know he is ok and was able
to visit with your DH. Just knowing that would be comforting to me. Thinking of you, hoping you can still move ahead.

Scoop: Yes, I love the books on tape and my I-pod...Here is the deal with my sis.  Sis and hubby are going to the city where two of their AC live so we will be staying in a hotel. If it were just sis and hubby ok, but they dote on their AC and sometimes it gets to be a bit much and not very much fun and I am quite a fifth wheel.  Most of this is just me as they are wonderful folks and very kind to me but my gut says not to go.  Even my sis last night when I asked her if they had made plans she said not yet.  They are not planners so I will not even know where they are staying until the last minute. That is not fun for me as I am a planner. It really sounds like I am a wet blanket but I have lots of experiences with them to know how things go   And it ain't always fun   ....but we have never had a falling out.  We are all good about letting things go.

NGU:  WE CAN DO THIS!!!  Thanks for the uplifting note on your progress.

Scoop:  I felt BETTER just reading your post.  Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking all the time to write this out.  You are a birthday present and it ain't even my birthday yet!!!  Love these ideas.  I realize now that it isn't so much about going to see my sister as it is about coming home, driving all that way by myself (5 hours).  I have done this alone since I got divorced in 1992 and I am just tired of it. 

So nurturing myself sounds like the best idea of all.  Going to the free dinner to WORK, so I have something scheduled (you're so right about that...fill the time).  And then spending the rest of the weekend doing kind things for myself or others. 

Doe: Thanks for your suggestion. Part of me would like to do just that. But, I know my DD would use that as one more thing to hold against me, that I am trying to hurt her by telling her I am not going to be home, so knowing her I am opting for silence. No more games with her.  And knowing me, I will answer the phone if it rings and I can hear it.  If it doesn't ring I am treating the day like any other.  I am putting my bubble around me, like my therapist tells me.  And a person never knows WHO might call out of the blue...maybe that old boyfriend whose mother has the same BD as me??  But ooops, he's married, forgot.  Ha.  I am trying to think with a loving heart, no matter. 

Hugs back to you WW.

NGU: My daughter does not have the ability to remove all love from my life/heart.  This is so true.  Often I am reminding myself of that same thing. 

jdtm & Elsie: Thank you, you both offer different windows to look through.  I know that once I get somewhere (with my sister, with friends) that I am usually glad I have gone.  I love the idea of having my few minutes of sadness just for me and then getting on to other things...Hugs back to you...