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Messages - luise.volta

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That brings up a P.S. for me, SL. My younger DS designed and manages this Website for us for free. He thinks I hung the moon, which I was really too busy as a young mom to attempt. (Lucky for both of us!) At 91, he has my back! :)

Interesting, AF. My 'ex' was a Behavioral Psychologist. One day I remarked that the bird outside our door was singing 'Good morning' to me and was told he was probably singing, 'This is my territory. Enter at your own risk!'

Here at Warm Beach we all avidly watched the eagle's nest on our campus where a young bird was being lovingly fed.  He eventually teetered dangerously on the edge. Then one day we all held our breaths as he was pushed off the side of it into the world he was to survive in, if he flapped his wings hard enough. (He did...whew!)

Then there are those videos of a mother bear batting at her crying yearlings before she turns her back and lumbers off.

I look back on generations of family continuity in our specie and wonder how much of it was tradition, obligation, and survival. Where and when did preference become a factor? Entitlement? Why and how? If this is a pendulum, where might it settle?

And yes, when in pain, who gives a rip? My personal expectations weren't interested in esoteric meanderings. The pain was real and my loss unbearable until it finally wasn't.

We know where you are and we're here for you as you heal. You will!

I wonder, when I consider the path many of us know all too well, how this happens. Our DS son brings home someone really special and we like her and she likes us. We expand our clan to include her. It's almost as though DS's love for her is magnified by his loving family and she glories in it. At that stage she is still part of her clan and he is part of his whether they live at home or not.

Then for many of us, something starts to shift as the wedding approaches. We begin to experience exclusion. We're confused by it and rationalize it to the best of our ability. As a new family unit is established through marriage, it feels like our DIL no longer experiences us in a positive way. Our support is seen as interference. Our history too exclusive. Our influence is feared. At the same time, the newness of her role is shared with her family and she begins to lean on them for emotional, physical and sometimes financial support. She is challenged and they are there for her. Familiar, safe.

My guess is this is not experienced with any depth of understanding.
She starts to see DH's family of origin as competition and his love for them and loyalty to them as threatening.

While she is going through all of the above, DS is blinded by novelty and infatuation...early love. He wants to please her, support her, be seen by her as her hero and be rewarded in the best way imaginable. If she demands he distance himself and he has to choose...he has made his vows. His family of origin has to deal and heal...or not.

I know the above is abstract, grossly oversimplified, and generalized. I have not studied it formally.

It's just an...'I wonder.'

How are Doing, A.? Hugs...

A., I'm so sorry to hear what has transpired. We are old WWU friends and you are very dear to me. My heart goes out to you.

My experience didn't get to the stage you have just reached. My son died in his sleep of a sleep apnea stroke. His wife took up the banner and lambasted me when I reached out to support her after his untimely death.

The abyss you describe is horribly familiar. I can only say that for me to continue to stay in the climate of abuse meant that on some level I agreed with it. I found there was virtually nothing left of my self respect. I think I must have been clinging to some kind of ethic that a mother never gives up. Not consciously but it was evident in my decisions and behavior. My hopes and dreams, expectations and memories undermined my integrity and I sold out over and over again.

My healing has had to posthumous. My son made a choice and he stayed with it/'her'. My peace has come with knowing he had that right. He was a brilliant man, know in his field internationally. His two sons have followed in his footsteps, not in career choice but in success. I was not part of their upbringing. Now, as middle-aged adults, one holds me in contempt. He lives close by but I haven't seen or heard from him in years. The other thinks I hung the moon.

I have come to realize that very little of this had/has anything to do with me. Their perceptions and actions are about them...both the positive and the negative. I gave my biological role my best shot...human and imperfect. It was interpreted differently by two complex sons and later by two equally complex grandsons. My great granddaughter is a stranger, raised abroad, friendly and remote. Respectful but focused elsewhere.

The bottom line beyond the abyss for me, A., is dignity. I have chosen to give myself that gift. I deserve it. It isn't anything someone else can bestow on me or take away from me and I find that heartening.

Grab Bag / Re: Happy Valentine's Day Luise!
« on: February 14, 2018, 03:46:42 PM »
Thank you so much! How long has it been, I wonder, that we have had this lovely, loving connection? Have a beautiful Valentine's Day, too!

Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: That Happened To Me, As Well
« on: February 14, 2018, 11:43:13 AM »
Welcome, Jools, I moved your post, so you can have your own thread.

We ask all new members to go to out HomePage and under Read Me First, to read the posts placed there for you. Please pay special attention to the Forum Agreement to be sure WWU is a fit. We are a monitored Website.

For me, accepting my eldest son's choice of a partner and the lessons he brought into his life as a result, was full of lessons for me, as well. He was an adult and no matter how inexperienced, they were his lessons. My years had brought me more wisdom but it was mine, not his. My expectations were for an expanded family not a broken one. That was long ago and I now have a grown grandson I am close to. Hang in there!

Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / That Happened To Me, As Well
« on: February 14, 2018, 11:33:40 AM »
From Jools: I too have the same DIL situation. My son goes along with whatever she does & his family are alienated because he will not stand his ground. Its all about her family. She is a Narcissist & she has over the past 10 years driven a wedge through our once tight knit family. My daughter has suffered abuse from my DIL at the tender age of 14 when we went on holiday with my Son & DIL.[/size]My daughter never speaks to my son & she has been isolated from him by DIL.I have 2 Grandchildren from her & was told before the first was born that if I didn't apologise for telling her off about the abuse she did to my daughter I would never see my Grandchild. Both my husband & myself spoke to my son & told him that if that was what he wanted then so be it. We have been allowed into our Grandys lives but there are constant abusive things that DIL does to us. They come home to visit her family & stay with them & we get a few rushed hours to see the kids. We are always treated as the low life side of the family & get dished up left overs. It will not change. We will not however tolerate abuse so we only communicate thru our son to see, skype or call our Grandys. Its a very sad situation & I have no answers.I find myself wishing that one day my son will see what she is & will leave with the kids.She is truly the most spiteful nasty person I have ever encountered. Jools

Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: Not invited to the wedding
« on: February 06, 2018, 11:12:46 AM »
Welcome, D. Our standard greeting to all new members is to ask that you go to our HomePage and under Open Me First, read the posts placed there for you. Please pay special attention to the Forum Agreement to be sure WWU is a fit for you. We're a monitored Website.

My heart goes out to you. My experience when my eldest married was that he seemed to have a hard time combing his former relationship with us with his new, primary relationship to someone outside of our family unit that also brought he another family unit to relate to. He didn't share that and I'm not sure he was aware of his dilemma. He choose, wisely, to align with his spouse but we were still relatively young parents and found it extremely difficult. (They married on a lark when driving though a state that had no waiting period and used a cigar bands for wedding rings!) I had to get that what was going on was their business not mine and that as 'adults', it was their issue to address and, hopefully, learn from.

I recall all too clearly how hard it was for me at his age to make choices that I really didn't understand and had no experience facing. And yet that's how all of us mature...we learn from our successes and have to face the consequences of our mistakes. For our parents it can be very hard to stay out of it because that, too, is a new experience.

My son and I were so close previously that I wasn't prepared for our closeness not to continue. I knew how it could work, he didn't...nor did his wife.

I don't know if any of my experience helps. Others will respond and honor you with theirs. We are here because we have 'been there' and we care. Hugs to you...

Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: afraid i crossed the line
« on: February 05, 2018, 08:40:10 AM »
Sorry, G. What you are going through is all too familiar to me. My issues with my eldest son were two-fold. My expectations of him and his expectations of me. When he started middle-school, he started sleepovers with classmates and discovered other kids had more traditional mothers; seen but not heard women, apron clad, that lived to serve. I did not see my role as that of an unpaid domestic. I saw him as he grew up, married and had sons of his own as an adult, or at least a potential adult. We were both deeply disappointed and each of us saw ourself as reasonable and the other as unreasonable.

I brought that to this forum and worked here with others to learn that my son was who he was and so was I. Our expectations had little to do with reality and a lot to do with some notion of what we would prefer and then chose to expect. What I have gotten on WWU and over the last decade given back to those in the same or similar situations, is that others are how they are, even if we raised them and had other plans, and it often has little or nothing to do with what we might think would be reasonable, kind or thoughtful.

Resolution didn't come easily to ether my son or me and we both had many relapses. Eventually we accepted or at least tolerated what we didn't like in each other and made the best of it. The solution didn't lie in changing each other but in learning to focus elsewhere.

My heart goes out to you. I suspect that we all take our turns at being Old and Cranky. I'm 90 and am now applying what I have learned here to my great grand...who is 23! Hugs...

[size=78%]  [/size]

Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: Cheap, adult son...
« on: January 12, 2018, 07:19:49 PM »
As you are aware, P., this isn't a counseling Website. There are no professionals here. Nor are we licensed. We share what we have been through and what has worked for us. Sometimes we come up with a suggestion but that's the best we can do. We can't answer your questions because we simply don't know.

The right counselor may be hard to find but the right one might have a lot to offer as you work your way through these issues and how they are affecting your life and peace of mind.

At this time, this thread is being closed. We all hope touching base with us has been helpful.

Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: Difficult Adult Daughter
« on: January 12, 2018, 10:30:16 AM »
Dear G, I wondered, as I read your post, if you have been to a 12 step group. I know they support those who support others but I don't have any specifics to offer you. I also wondered if another counselor could help you cope. The first two counselors I saw weren't a fit but the third counselor was a huge help.

This isn't a counseling Website. We share what we have been through and how we eventually found ourselves after losing touch with who we were under the pressure of family issues. With no similar experience behind me to back it up, my sense of your situation it too difficult to continue coexisting and that your daughter needs other housing. It may sound like tough love...but you matter. You've done your best. That's all any of us can do.

Beyond that, I see one-on-one help as what is needed, not a Website without the specific focus you need and deserve. What we can do is hold you in our hearts. You can count on that.

Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: Cheap, adult son...
« on: January 11, 2018, 10:05:36 AM »
Welcome P. We ask all new members to go to our HomePage and under Read Me First, to read the posts placed there for you. Please pay special attention to the Forum Agreement to be sure WWU is a fit. We're a monitored Website.

How sad that you have had such a difficult relationship with your son. It must be very hard on everyone concerned. Have you gotten support for yourself? If not, a counselor might help you with disappointment, sadness and anger. I am sure if it were me, I would be experiencing all of those feelings.

I would suggest that you do nothing...and expect nothing. And further, that you focus on your own interests and expand into the areas that bring you joy. You matter and deserve joy and peace.

Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters / Re: Alone at Christmas
« on: January 10, 2018, 06:12:25 PM »
For me, it was easier said than done. So stay with us, if you are so inclined, as you take it on...and keep us posted. Hugs...

Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws / Re: DIL Behaviour Puzzle
« on: January 10, 2018, 02:16:22 PM »
I was born into an upper middle-class family 1927. The depression hit us in 1933 and the first thing to go was our housekeeper. My parents survived and eventually thrived but they never got over it. My sisters were 11 and 15 and had some understanding that it wasn't was something much larger and poorly defined. At age 6 the contrast of before and after was totally confusing. I was the family darling one day and invisible the next. My identity crisis wasn't noticed and affected me for the rest of my life.   

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