July 10, 2020, 08:23:24 am


"Welcome to WiseWomenUnite.com -- When adult children marry and leave home, life can sometimes get more complex instead of simpler.  Being a mother-in-law or daughter-in-law can be tough.  How do we extend love and support to our mothers-in-law, adult children, daughters-in-law, sons-in-law, and grandchildren without interfering?  What do we do when there are communication problems?  How can we ask for help when we need it without being a burden?  And how do our family members feel about these issues?  We invite you to join our free forum, read some posts... and when you're ready...share your challenges and wisdom."

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Messages - Footloose

Hi Cmom,
In my experience, it's best not to get involved unless you know of abuse or neglect and in that case, a call to your local family services would be the best place to start.

If it is a disagreement between husband and wife about their son's sleeping location, I would not get involved. 

You might say to your daughter, "I really am sorry to hear about your struggles but I am not equiped to help in any way other than being a good listener.  If you need help, please talk it out with your husbamd or get counseling through local churches or professionals."   Then politely change the subject. 

If you get involved and they reconcile or even if they do not, you could be blamed for the results.

It sounds to me that this couple is using their son as ammunition for their own arguments and that is not fair to the child and caustic to their reconcilliation.  This is a problem for your daughter to solve and she is capable so let her.

Luise gave you very great advise and is the wisest among us.  Read it again to see if her words apply to your current situation?

Grandchildren / Re: MILs favorites
February 24, 2015, 06:15:31 am
ST,  I can feel for you on this one!  I too had a simiolar experience.  What I finally realized is that all the comments about the SIL and her brood were, in my case, about the lack of closeness between the blood family. In your case  your hubby and his sister or the cousins who "don't even know eachother.  No matter what the driver, your MIL is not bahaving in a way we would want our kids to model.

In my case, it was about control.  Using the iothers as a way to say I dont get enough time with you or your kids and I think it's terrible that the cousins do not even knoew each other. And u should include your mother and your sister in your life more.  Mine was a no win because even after I tried getting these famikly bonds started, I was too late and I was still disapoting the disapointed. 

You've already gotten the best advise here from my perspective. Talk to your daughter and explain how grandma is and that we love her but not the behavior.  Maybe give her coaching on politely turning the converation arouns to a common subject? or Politely say, Gmom, u must really miss the other grandkids cuz u talk about them all thje time.  Do you brag about me/ us that way too?  Are u proud of me? I dunno, that would be my direct approach but I can be too direct at times.....

Hugs and your daughter is lucky to have you as her mom:)
Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws / Re: Back on Board
February 13, 2015, 11:25:56 am
I too was raised this way and learned to shut up and shut down.   I am 51 and still recovering!  That's why I am so dern wordy as an adult!!!!

My elder relatives all say now...if I had known I'd have reported it.....but my parents did not show their worst outside to others. 

On the surface, we looked like a happy and well adjusted family but if my relatives followed their gut in witnessing verbal abuse and humiliation, maybe my parents could have gotten council to break these damned family traditions of disresepoect and control?  I still cringe when I see the perfect family photos from my past.  Even if I see someone else's perfect lil fam all dressed in their best lined up in from of the fireplace, I get a bit of a shiver even if the family truly is healthy!

6 children in 10 years to blue collar, hard working people who were 19 and 20, uneducated, stubborn and ill equipped.  Neither of my parents graduated from highschool but very capable and highly intelligent.  So then WHY? Simple ignorance and following the sins of their parents.  Reacting to their own abusive and or neglectful childhoods.....and the country was in turmoil! Luise can attest because she too is a child of WWII and the Great Depression. Times were imossibly hard and everyone was worried.  These "sins of our fathers" become apparent when we model that abuse from when we were on the other end of it.  When times are impossible and we marvel at the ability to cope, this is when the ghosts come back.  Subconsiusly, we become them and it shows in our action or inaction. !  We do not ebven knownwhy,e just shove it under ther ug and treat it as nonsense....owe

So please trust your instincts?  Luise is right!  What do they do in private when no one is looking or in earshot?!  It deserves a conversation and that is why your heart led u here again.  Welcome back:)

These situations are so delicate and u r in a tight spot.  Maybe tak with ds about it and tell him what u are saying to us.  u are worried.  We get so disgusted with iour kids when they get mouthy or disrepectful but for some reason, parents do not think the kids deserve common respect.  Children get ignored, shouted at, cussed at or talked to with a tone that should be used with a terrorist but never a child. 

I know we are human and lose it at times but the goal should be the golden rule.  If u want disrecprct and distrust from your kids then raise them as a bully. 
we want them to obey but be free minded
we want them to speak nicely to others
we want them to control their anger
we want them to take ownership for their mistakes and lack of good jugement: (fix it, and prevent it from happening again)
but do we model that good behavior?  How often do we lose it in front of them?  Do we apologize and explain why we were wrong and offer a new way of dealing with stress or disapointment? Or are we like so many and say do as I say not as I do? 

I would bet $1000 that your poor DIL was treated worse than what she is showing others in her parenting.  In her mind, she may be thiunking she is a perfect mom because after all, her kids have it way better than she?  Well that is not good enough!
Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws / Re: Train wrecks
February 13, 2015, 07:52:12 am
I hate to hear this SL!  Makes my blood boil!  I would talk with her primary doctor as well because he/she can help dictate/ advocate what care your MIL needs.  They will impartially give a medical opinion for the BEST care of the Patient and not the selfish family!  Do you have any of her blood relative allys here that can help u?  See if u can find at least one that agrees with the improper treatment? Even a distant 2nd or 3rd cousin could help.

Sad that we in laws do not count in so many family laws/ relationships!  A call to dept of family svcs in your county may help if atty fees are out of reach.  Also there is a US agency "A Place for Mom" that is excellent and free  Just do a web search?! 

We had to fabricate a story to liberate an 86 year old family friend from the clutches of her evil DIL.  Her son had passed away and his mom was living with them at the time.  The 2nd wife/DIL wanted to keep this elderly person because of her pension and social security income but was obviously burdened by the care required. 

I personally witnessed berating and physical pushiness and snatching from this "care" giver.  The old woman could not move fast enough and I saw this evil person poke the old woman with a cane to push her faster.  Also noticed unexplained bruising on the arms and hands beyond what is normal for folks with aging and thin skin.....  I wouldnt put it past this person to pinch the granny too!? I could have easily been arrested that day if I didn't control my urge to knock this witch out!!!  I could never get granny alone to ask her if she was happy and treated well or about the brusing. 

Finally the DIL went on a trip and had to leave granny with another caregiver for a week.

I got busy!  I met with the granny and asked her if she wanted to move to an assisted home and I could take her to look at it if she was interested.  My heart fell when she said yes and confirmed all my suspisions were true.  I was almos arrested that day!  We told her that family svcs showed up and was asking questions for an investigation of neglect and abuse.  We told the DIL that granny was taken away by the state and if DIL made any contact or troube in the movement of this elder, the county would open up a formal investigation and charge her with the situation.

No further action was taken and the old dear was able to have a few yrs of peace b4 she passed away.   

As far as her ability to remeber ur visits, please know my dear that she is still better for it!  Her emotional bell being is affected by your kindness and human touch.  A hug a kiss a kind pat to the hand, all of it!   Every time we would visiit a dear loved one w/ Altzheimers, she did not know us but her blood pressure would go down, her breathng would relax and her appitite improved.  So she does know! Subconsiously.  She may not be able to show affirmation or communicate it to others and maybe even herself.  The the basic need for love and attention still exists.  Just like when we were babies and had no cmmunication.

I was in a chemiocal coma for 2 weeks during a serios illness and even tho I was out to lunch, my dreams during that time, included things going on around me, ambulance ride, hearing music...(my fam had an MP3 music playey on me with soothing tunes and rock n roll so it was like my dreams had a sound track!

No one really knows but it's good for you and your hubby to give back to the needy even if u get no credit and it sets a good example for your family less evolved in human resposibility and kindness.

I would seek Medical Power of Atty ONLY and leave the financial crud to the greedy family.  What they will fail to understand is this....Medical trumps all other power of attry relationships.  Her assests must be used to provide her care.  if anby crumbs are left, the vultures can fight over em!  I am doing this now for my in laws from my prior marriage becasue their children are dead and the grandchildren are just waining for them to croak and have a pay day. 

Your MIL is blessed to have you on her side, dear and kind lady!!!!
Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws / Re: Just checking!
February 02, 2015, 08:40:50 am
Hi Shiny,
I guess I am a bit of a graduate as well? My situation has improved with my DS but remains challenging w/ him and DIL.  I now expect it because it appears to be our new normal. 

She just has a hard time putting herself in other people's shoes. She know everything and has even said she knows more than the doctors.  She very well may as she is very smart but It scares me a bit when folks are this rigid.  They could miss something good that could really improve their quality of life.

I have fond memories of my grandmoms too.  We saw the maternal side most because we lived near by and she stayed with us 6 kids Mon- Fri.  No such thing as daycare in the 60s in our town. Even tho we saw the pat gmom only once a year or less, I still couldn't pick one gmom as a fav over the other.   

My time w. GCs is so much less that DIL's mom but that's OK by me.   (most days:)

So when DIL is insensitive or posts happy grandparents day to her family only, I just know that she has more growth in her future.  She actually believes her 3 sons and daughter will stay by her forever.  No worries about her future DIL relationships because she is a perfect mom and her sons would never cut her out of their lives for a second. I hope that is true but she sure isn't setting a good example?  and my son said he wanted to marry me when he grew up (age 4) later he said when he got married, they would move to Fl and I was coming with.  I said your new bride may not like that and he said, "Then I won't marry her!" (age 9) LOL! outta the mouths of babes?!

I do believe Karma has a way of  balancing things out. 

If my eyes have been able to avoid popping out six feet across the room, with the fact they live in AZ and do not have the 4 yo nor the 2.5 yo vaccinated, then I can let a lot wash over me?!  It has been SO HARD keeping my trap shut especially with the measles outbreak!

We must let go of our expectations and mommy instinctive control.  These are NOT OUR children, they belong to our kids and hopefully they will end up doing a better job than we did even if it is done so differently!!!

Hugs dear and I hope your days get better!
Dear WWU Friends,

I just returned after the 10 days with my 4 GKs and the visit was excellent! 

Good omen when the airlines bumped me to 1st class on both legs of the trip:)

I went into it w/o expectations, made not ONE suggestion, and completely followed their lead on everything regarding houshold norms and children management.  I so went with the flow and was glad that they did not ask for anything more than my time and love :D

Things have changed a lot since I was a FT mommy and their kids seem to be doing great!

After 3 days there, my DIL got called away for the early birth of her sister's 1st child. My son and I were on duty to cover for her absence. So glad he took vacation because we really needed each other!  No wonder she is so thin!  Whew!  Hard work but so much love and fun too!   

When my son and I had a quiet moment, I told him how proud I am at his skills as a huband and daddy, especially w/o a direct example as he was an only child with a very absent father and a home life that did not include any kind of marriage example.  He smiled and said, not true. You were the best mom and dad anyone could have had and I know you loved me and put me first by doing your best.  He then gave me a bear hug <3  I did not bring up the letter nor the break and will never talk of it with him unless he wants to bring it up.  Water under the bridge that has long since passed.

That old tension between us is simply gone, as if it never existed and we were able to be relaxed and have fun again, like we did so long ago. DIL got along very well too.  She is very smart and knows a lot so she needs no help from me in making the best decisions for her children.

When the cut off happened, there were things going on with them that I was not aware.  She was pregnant and in the beginning of her 3rd trimester with my 4th GC, the 1st girl. The other children were 6, 3 and 2. He was in the midst of a huge career move, a relocation to a new area, far from anything common to them, my 3rd grandson (age2 at the time) was diagnosed with Autism and then Ds's father died.

I may have taken the hit for everything wrong in his life at this critical tme and he simply did not have room for any other noise.  Even from me and even tho all I wanted was to be included and help.

My favorite part of being a grandma is being able to love them up but not having any reponsibility in their upbringing.  DIL has had issues with one of them getting dehidrated so she alows them to drrink what ev she can get them to.  The 8 year old has developed a preference for just plain water so maybe the others will too?  WHio knows and who cares?  Thjeir teeth look beautiful and I am not on the hook for dental care:)  Sounds good to me, here ya go sweetie:)

I know 10 days was a long visit but the time flew by and as it turned out, it was a very good thing because of her unexpected travel.  My goal was to continue to rebuild our new relationship, adult to adult and to bond with the granchildren.  It's like I was never gone! Even the small ones who don't remeber me from their earlier days, warmed u to me right away.  The fact that my son and I look and speak alike helps!  They seemed to know I was family.

Happiness is rolling around on the floor with 4 tickle monsters!

Mission accomplished!
Grab Bag / Re: Merry Christmas!
December 24, 2014, 01:30:50 pm
 :-* May the Reason for the Season warm you though with peace and love for all of you wise women!

I spoke to my DIL yesterday and point blank asked her if she thought it better I stay in a hotel for all or some of the nites there.  I told her that some friends siad the long stay could be a troublesome burden. I told her that I did not want to add to her heavy load and NOT to fuss over getting anyting "just right" for me.  I live in and tolerate clutter well!  She laughted and said, she knows and "What good will u do at a hotel, i need you here!"   I think SHE would like to hide out at the hotel! LOL!  The kids run her crazy!

So we shall see for sure and I will keep you informed as I test these new waters?! 
Dearest T,
I am so sorry for your struggles! I have an only child/son who is now 29 and married with children.  I raised him alone and when he was 18- 19, after HS graduation, he decided to show out in irresponsible ways without any lifeplan.  At 19, almost 20 I asked him to leave the nest.  He reluctantly and bitterly left and had to sleep in his car for a while.  (he ignored the 3 month notice) He got a basement apt and later a regular apt with a roomate.  He did a complete transformation and his life now shows the fruit of his early efforts.

My heart was broken and it was so hard to "throw him to his adulthood".  We had a lot of struggle after that because he couldn't believe I would throw him out.  He was upset because I changed the locks and asked him if he was dealing drugs.  He was not but I had to ask and I believed him but how dare I imply/ask.  Why did I change the locks, he is no criminal.  I told him the truth in that I had no idea if he would improve or go deeper into poor choices.

It was what he needed to get his life launched.  His father set an example of pathological lies, irresponsibility, selfishness and disrespect to himself and others that i did not want DS to follow!

I told DS I would always be here to talk and love him.  I would feed him if he is hungry and try and get him medicine/ Dr visits if he gets sick but I would give no money.  i would pay half of the apt dept but it would be pd directly to the landlord.  i transferred the title to a car w/ 6 mos insurance prepaid.  (title transfer is important because car owner can be liable in accidents when violator has no assets) and cancelled my umbrella policy to cover DS if he did something stupid.  He never stole from me but I changed the locks anyway.  I had to protect myself.  No other adult, besides DH has a key to the home, right?

You are now at a similar crossroads. Begin today in treating him as an adult.  Abide by his boundaries and do NOT contact him.  Let him reach out to you once he has had time to settle into his new environment. 22 is a special birthday/age as all double numbers.  What i have seen in myself and so many others is that 22 can be a make or break year.  Luckily, most of my young friends have stepped up.

One, my nephew, never has grown up at 30 and is in a very similar situation as your son.  This guy has had all the "help" and stroking and pity from his mom, along with rehab and half way house and probation.  He still has not grown mentally where he keeps a full time. regular job and can take care of himself and all the bills that come with.  He tells me he needs a vacation.  I tell him he needs a job.

My ex husb never grew up to the point of handling all of his own affairs.  His father handled it all so well that this man child never grew up.  He died at age 57 and was still under his father's support, always depressed and angry at the life he could have had but never really thought he deserved due to his total lack of accomplishments.  xDH's dad was 86 and caring for a wheelchair bound, mentally ill 86 yo wife.

You are still his mother and always will be but that full time role and responsibility has ended.  He is on his own with the skills he was given.  Now he simply has to use them.  Please let your son accomplish or fail this life test and learning opportunity. He has all the control over his own life based on what any of us control; Attitude and Behaviors. 

Out of failure comes GROWTH! or just more failure....we choose for ourselves.

I don't know if your son reads but mine found this to be a great read and tool to find balance in his path to adulthood. I buy this for all young people who are on a journey of enlightenment and personal growth. 

The way of the Peaceful Warrior by Dan Millman.  Part-fictional, part-autobiographical book based upon the early life of the author Dan Millman. The book has been a bestseller in many countries since its first publication in 1980. The story tells of a chance meeting with a service station attendant who becomes a spiritual teacher to the young gymnast, Dan Millman. The attendant, whom Millman names Socrates, becomes a kind of father figure and teaches Millman how to become a "peaceful warrior."

I enjoyed this book so much, I have read all of them :) I especially liked the Journey of Socrates.

Hugs, my dear sister in pain.  You have come to the right place but as Luise said, counseling would be a good idea.  I use counseling as needed and it works for me!
Thanks for your concerns. I did a poor job in explaining the current status of our our relationship.  While I have not seen my son, we have talked many times over the phone since the beginning of this year.  I get texts and pictures multiple times a week. The children Skype me and bicker over who gets to have center stage.

My DIL and DS act like our prior estrangement is all water under the bridge and I am following their lead.  I am forever guarded but open.

They have invited DH and me to their state many times this year but we wanted to wait for better weather and a time when her family was not also visiting. My DIL did visit me with the kids for a couple of hours before DH and I left Atlanta.  This was the first time I met my only GD and saw my dear GSs. She and I talk at least once a week now and sometime more. 

The 4 year old was diagnosed with mild Autism and requires a lot of attention and healthcare visits.  They want me there at their home to spend time with the kids and allow my DIL to attend the development sessions without the rest of the brood in tow. Ages 8, 5, 4 and 2.  She has all the dental checkups scheduled too.

My son has worked very hard to educate himself and build a career.  They have few money woes and that is very comforting to know. They have a big home and a casita (detached room/office) that is the guest room I will sleep in and retreat to if needed. 

Children have always been a joy to me....when they mostly behave that is:) and they know it.  I love to play and educate with silly songs, puppet shows, arts and crafts, science experiments, baking, critter safaris, rock collecting, kite creation and flying, sports, yes I am an outdoor tomboy and very creative.  My DH says I am the artist and he is the engineer. I just look forward to being on the floor with them climbing all over me;) but gently as to not mess up my hair!  LOL!!

Another option would be to change my flight for an earlier departure but I will have NO EXPECTATIONS.  I remain, cautiously optimistic.

Please keep your comments and questions coming?  I need to be prepared and see the big picture.  You ladies keep me honest with myself!

thanks so much!!
I kno, Luise:)  Shorter would be best but airfare dictated.  i already have an out if I need one.  I will rent a car, stay at a hotel and sight see to spend time if things are not healthy between me and the adults. Granny travels with AMEX, baby! The weather here in WA is a bit cold and wet so sunny 74 degrees sounds lovely:)  My 2 older GSs were on the phone with me after their mom told them I was visiting and they are so excited and happy to the point of squeeling.  I hafta admit, i am excited too but am stiffling my squeel. Cautionary Optimism?

It may get to the point that the children tell their parents that they just like to have me around?!  Who could say no to these beautiful cherry cheeked kids?  But i will continue to take one day, one interaction at a time.  I will treat the visit as my last as we all know it could be when others hold the cards.

My DS and DIL have invited me and DH to visit for 10 days on New Years.  We are in diff states.  DH has declined as he is not sure he wants to spend time in their hometown.  He is still unhappy about how my son/ DIL treated us with disrespect when we lived close to each other.

I am so looking forward to the 4 GCs.  They are the only reason for my visit.  So far, the plan is for me to stay overnight in their home.  i am ready to leave early or stay at a hotel if need be.  I really do not know what to expect so will expect NOTHING.

Wish me luck and the use of all the wisdom learned here from you fine ladies.  One day at a time! 
When does full time mom responsibility end?  18, 19, 21 or 35?  I used the 20 number.  Anything beyond that age was a favor and not MY responsibility.

I would ask these blamers one question when he's on the pity path,

......and what have you done with your time during the past 10 plus years in self developement, positive behavior and goals since you graduated school to find your own happiness?!

can't get in that time machine and change a thing from the past so take your lessons and move the bleep on!
I couln't say it any better, Pooh!

on the dating topic....I married too early at 19 to the first man who loved me.  Big mistake as we have all found out, love is not enough.  I left the marriage when my son was a year old.  I used phone dating before on line existed, on and off thru all the years of single motherhood.

There have been liars and snake oil salesmaen out there since the begining.  Hell I married one the first time and I met him at a store! I got a lot of negativity and caution about phone dating from worried friends/family. 

I explained it like this, Even if you met a man at a bar, the grocery or thru a friend at church, you still have to vet him yorself by spending a lot of time together.  Listen to your gut and if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is.  I used the same rules of engagement in dating that I did with guys I met in life.

i never responded to men outside of 25 miles of my home.  I would correspond on the site with him for no more than a week or two and the next step would be for him to give me his number to have a direct conversation.  I told him that I would block my number.  Then a physical meeting within the week or two. Connecting directly by phone and in person is required! This is the key!  U must meet in person to see if you have a chemical fit and to be sure he is who he says he is. When you have gotten to know him and he passes the snff test, you give him your full name and phone number.  He does the same. Then No man I ever met had any problem with my approach.

This stopped the bull with men who just wanted to get attn by using the site with no intention of having an honest relationship with anyone but their mommy or cannot get the guts to leave a bad relationship and play on the web.   Some of these folks collect women on line like baseball cards....And others get stuck on the first guy because hew is better than nothing.  No relationship ios better than a bad one! So having all this sand to sift thru makes a woman more choosy.

I would NEVER pay for a membership because I am cheap and wanted the man to pick up the tab while dating me.  Then I would treat here and there to reciprocate.  Calll me old fashioned? Dont care.  There are free sites out there for women. 

I was also very clear on my ad that I was looking for a long term relationship with a marriage minded gentleman. I met and married the love of my life via Yahoo Personals and we have been together for 6 years and married for 3:)

This is OUR time ladies so why not spend the last of our lives with people who actually like us!
Hi Wonderful Women!

I have been away too long but I have read been reading updates to keep in touch on a one sided kinda way.  Life has been so full and busy!

DH and I moved in June from the SE to the NW and live on the coast of southern WA state.  We still cannot believe it and are enjoying it so much! The relationship with DS and DIL has improved as we do talk more often.  They just started contact after the new year for no apparent reason. I did not ask for an explanation, I just go with the flow. 

I will never have what I imagined in being a grandma but you know what?  Life goes on ANYWAY!

Going through this process has opened my mind to understand all of my relationships.  I find it easier to set gentle boundaries and give open and kind feedback on what I need and expect from all relationships.  I was being a bit of a door mat at work, with my siblings and with my mother. 

Personal accountability helps me be honest to my own feelings and needs.  I choose who I spend time with and teach people how to treat me, based on my words and actions and if I accept their unacceptable treatment. 

I no longer focus on how I think things SHOULD be and can better accept what I cannot change.  I can ONLY control my own actions and attitudes.  I still must remind myself of this when stresses come my way.  I can say no,  I can offer other solutions, I can go with consensus or decide to remove myself from the drama.  I can keep myself safe and protect myself from abusive interactions with others by asking for what I need and by moving on if things continue to be hurtful or negative.

Note to Self: "who put you in charge of the universe?!"  "let it BE!"

I now have emotional room and time for more positive relationships and true friendships that I was too exhausted to explore before.   

I still have down times but do not stay there long.  This forum has helped me in so many ways.  Just knowing that we are NOT ALONE was huge to me.  Time does help heal but we must change our own thought process and change the way we look at situations.

Much love, hope and respect for all of you dear sisters in motherhood!