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Problem Solving => Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters => Topic started by: Pattipal4 on December 27, 2011, 09:00:28 am

Title: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Pattipal4 on December 27, 2011, 09:00:28 am
So happy to have found this forum.  I am crushed, baffled, angry all at the same time.  I never thought my now 19 year old AD, who was the joy of my life up until about 13 years old,  would ever have the nerve to speak and act horribly disrespectful.  I just never pictured this.  Her father and I divorced when she was 7, and I'm certain that has contributed to her inner turmoil and hatred for me. I always did what I thought was best for her and her sister who is 23.  I also have a 4 year old son from my second marriage.  During the second daughters teen years she morphed into a very difficult person to parent.  My husband and I did the best we could, even providing a lot of extras that most families cannot do.  She always had a way of wearing me down to get what she wanted.  For her high school graduation I was able to take her and her sister on a vacation.  She treated me with such disdain the entire time and talked to her boyfriend continually.  She did not make the grades to go off to college but wanted me to pay rent for her to attend community college away from home.  I refused to do that.  Then she wanted to live at home, but stay overnight with her bf whenever she wanted. That was the last straw. The foot finally went down and I would not allow that,  especially after all of the "I hate living here, I can't stand you, why would I want to be in this house".  On our way home from her graduation present vacation, I told her to call her boyfriend, have him pick her up, and move in with him.  I'd had enough.  I didn't even let her back in my house as she already had a bag packed.  They lived together 5 months when I got the call, crying, "we broke up".  So I rented a u haul and packed up all her things while she was at work, because she was too distaught, and moved her back home.
48 hours later she was overnight with the boyfriend again.  24 hours after that I had her pack up and get out again.  Now she still has the nerve to write texts like "you can't even be a caring mom, I don't have a relationship with you, nor do I want one" and added expletives which I cannot repeat.  All I asked of her was to follow 2 rules, speak respectfully and don't stay out overnight.  I would not compromise on the rules in my home.  How do these people we choose to bring into the world, provide for, love, support, end up thinking its ok to speak directly to a parent this way?  How or where or why is this ok?  No parent deserves this.  Thank you for allowing me this forum to vent and know that I am not alone.  Any thoughts are appreciated.





Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: lisafox41 on December 27, 2011, 09:16:25 am
Welcome Patti,
You should be so proud of yourself for setting limits. I was never able to do that until the last 6 months or so.
I'm not sure why our children speak to us as they do. I agree with you...it is not okay.
We can't control what they do as adults. If she can't speak to you with respect, then she can't speak to you at all. I can't tell you how many times I have had to tell my AD "I'm hanging up now. Call me when you call talk respectfully."
Our homes must be kept peaceful. It is not asking too much of your AD. Stay strong, there are soooo many of us going through the same thing.
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: pam1 on December 27, 2011, 10:12:51 am
Welcome Pattipal4 :)

Please read the Forum Agreement and WWU History (both threads located in the category Open Me First.)  We ask all new members to do so not b/c there is anything wrong with your post.

I'm so sorry what you're going through but I think you'll find a lot of support here. 
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: luise.volta on December 27, 2011, 10:52:20 am
Welcome - This is pretty much a "been there, done that" Website.  There is nothing remotely fair about what you have gone through. Most of us here have spent a lot of time and effort trying to make sense of the senseless. Healing comes when we get that's not going to work and we start building a life for ourselves beyond parenting. You did your best...and you deserve so much better. Now, it's time to give it to yourself. Sending love...
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Pooh on December 27, 2011, 11:16:38 am
Welcome Patti.  Good for you for telling her to leave again.  They have no idea what's out there in the big, bad world but they sure have it all figured out.  She needs to get the dose of reality and get a true picture.  Like Luise said, time to give to yourself.
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: themuffin on December 28, 2011, 01:10:27 pm
Pattipal, I hear ya!  Thank God for this forum, but what a shame that one even has to exist.  I have a theory about our rotten AC.  Now I'm sure some of you will disagree, because there is no one answer for all problems.  But in my own personal case and in many of the stories I've heard I think that we are treated the way we are because we've been too good to them.

I honestly believe this (at least in my case).  I didn't raise my children the way I was raised or the way my parents said they were raised.  See my parents, parent's didn't take any crap.  They were loving, sure. But they were also strict disciplinarians.  I was not allowed to raise my voice, roll my eyes, suck my teeth, or even look look like had an attitude.  My opinion didn't matter, my mother never permitted me to beg until she changed her mind.  My parents never tried to be our friends.   

Somehow I strayed from that formula.  I thought that I could be a parent and a friend. They didn't have any fear of us because we were "talking" parents.  We rarely spanked or punished.  They were allowed to voice their opinions and we actually listened.  We didn't let our no's be no and yes's be yes, like my mother always said.  My DH and I aren't even sure when it happened but we looked around us and realized that we had lost control.  Our children considered us their peers. And not even peers that they liked.  They considered us peers to which they were superior to.  The children who we had allowed to voice their opinions, now spoke their minds, and it didn't matter to them how they said it.  Lord forbid you ask them to do anything, because now these "opinions" that we allowed them to have voiced complaints!   We got to the point when we stopped asking them to anything because we didn't want to deal with the attitude.

We weren't rich by any means, but we also weren't poor. They had many, many nice things and they knew it.  Not only did they know it, they grew to expect it.  And not only did they expect it, they stopped appreciating it.  See, again I strayed from the formula.  My parents didn't spoil us and give us everything we wanted when we wanted it. We had to earn it.  Often times we had to save up for it ourselves and buy it.  Gosh, but we appreciated everything we got.  My children grew up feeling entitled.  Things came too easy, but yet still they complained about the few things they didn't get. Go figure??

So when you ask what makes them think they can talk to us that way, I believe it's because they have no respect for us, no fear of us (yes, I feared both my parents!!!) We had real consequences for our actions.  We didn't get time outs. We weren't allowed to talk by.  My mother lived by the verse in Proverbs, "Spare the rod, spoil the child." So many kids today are out of control and it's only getting worst. 

My DS is having our first GC.  My DH is not over the moon. DS broke a bond between them that I fear will never be repaired. We were having a family meeting because DS had said some hurtful things about MS.  We were sitting in the livingroom trying to be like Mike and Carol Brady, you know, the talk and listen kind of thing, when DS broke in a verbal assault against DH using curse words in combinations that I had never heard before.  The lack of respect were like physical blows..but when the verbal blows got to the point where DS was going to physically assault DH that was it.  I must say that although I know my DH loves DS, always has and always will, he will never feel the same about his namesake again. 

DH is not excited about the future GC.  He's deeply hurt and disappointed by the behaviors of DS.  He's never said this but I know it to be true.   DH and I were married very young. DH was only 20 when DS was born.  We went without many things and devoted our lives to them...Willingly,  because we love them and they brought us joy.  We did everything we could for them and tried our best to make them happy.  So when DS did this DH he was hurt to his core.  Thus, as terrible as this may sound, and it is sad and terrible, but the only time hubby displayed some excitement about the baby was when he said, "Now he'll see that it's not easy being a parent. And I hope he (the baby) grows up and treats him the same way he's treated us, so he can see how it feels."

I know, I know. ..it was not a nice, loving, parental thing to say. But I did kinda understand where he was coming from.

Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Smilesback@u on December 28, 2011, 01:42:25 pm
Keep respecting yourself and set those boundaries like you did.  Very very very healthy of you to think and respond appropriately.  You are a mother all of your life, and believe it or not, our AC will get a clue one day that they cannot buffalo us -- we will always have the power/authority in our relationship with them because we are their parents.  It is not an equal relationship - not like any other relationship they will have with anyone else - complicated as that sounds.  It is so.  All they can really do is decide to respect us, honor us as their parents, and let the past go.  That's all they can do to get on with their own lives.  They can live their lives the way they want too, just not under our roof.  Good luck to our AC and they will work on finding their own happiness, by loving and being loved.  Hopefully they do not burn a bridge to come back home for visits.  I am just not too keen anymore on being the warm nurturing Earth Mother - I am no saint theresa either, or Dr. Phil.  Their problems get too complicated for me to figure out anymore.  They are old enough to get help when they need it from a counselor.  I wish you peace, as you are one great mother in my book :)
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Pattipal4 on December 28, 2011, 05:53:46 pm
Your responses are helping me get through the self doubt, shock and anxiety of knowing my AD is perfectly fine with having pronounced that she no longer wants a relationship.  After seeing her on Christmas Eve (she arrived unannounced after I had asked 3 times if she were coming over or not), I had thought there was hope.  Just Monday night I texted her to please ask her older sister,  (my other AD) who didn't have her cell phone with her, to please let me know when she would be home because her 4 year old brother (my baby) was asking for her.
The reply I received was, "We're busy having fun. She is not at your beckon  call (beck and call) everytime she is home from college." 
I was shocked. How dare she, or anyone,  respond in such a way? I return to the saying, "No one can make your feel awful without your consent". I look forward to returning to work where there is mutual respect among peers. 
I completely agree that the theory that there was a  formula in place with the past generation that worked. Perhaps we became obsessed with our children's "self-esteem" and created  the "entitled" generation.  We spent too much money on them, and too much of our own time meeting their expectations.  And I am also over trying to live up to the "let's sit down and talk about it" parent.  I don't recall having those conversations with my parents.  And everytime they said "no" I'm sure I was mad at them, but I'm glad for it now.  They never even had to say: "if you want something,  work for it yourself". It was simply understood and woven into the fabric of the community.  A lot of things were different then.  Maybe with the economic crash and less income, parents will spend less and expect more from their children.
  Looking back to when my children were young, I'm certain I just caved in to their demands because I could, or I wanted them to like me more than I liked my mom at their age. 
Now I have a 4 year old boy and will surely do things differently.  Hope springs eternal.
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: luise.volta on December 28, 2011, 06:07:04 pm
I think it is very hard when we are in a cultural shift...(if we are)...to know that's what's going on. I look back and "entitled" is a word that just didn't describe children when I was growing up. Our mothers, mine had a college degree, didn't drive. We walked to school events and church events and the streets were safe. We didn't get delivered or picked up. We knew a depression was going on and we were all excited when we got to pick though a Goodwill bag those more fortunate had put togehter...before it went to its final destination. When there was a family event, my dad, also a college grad, brought home a 5 cent candy bar and split it 5 ways and we were tickled pink.



Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Smilesback@u on December 28, 2011, 06:36:15 pm
Yes, each family has a different culture it seems.  My parents were from depression-era and they worked hard to get somewhere in life to have security for their family.  My Dad was military and I never had him home for holidays or any great length.  My Mom was an alcoholic from when I was 4 years old.  My Dad would be gone 9 months at a time or more.  Once he was home more I was a teenager and I didn't really know him or him me.  We didn't talk about life, except he was super critical.  I developed an attitude, big time.  Who cares?  We are not close, my Dad and I or my sister and I, but I respect him.  I have many childhood issues in our relationship because of his *My way or the highway.*  I was a brat, a military brat.  Anyways, that's history.  Years later, I tolerate more than I should from my AC because I want to learn how to communicate with them as adults.  I accept now that I don't really know them that well as they are so very different from when they lived with me as dependents.  What they share with me, is what I have to go on, for knowing who they are becoming.  Some I like, some not.  Their actions often speak volumes of how they feel about me as a parent.  I refuse to devalue myself when they have an issue with what I say or do.  I have been through too much raising them, as well as trying to get along with them to keep thinking I am the one with the problem all the time.  The DS who got into trouble the most, says to me it was not my fault, not my parenting that caused his problems.  Another DS is married and he feels I don't give him enough $$$ and owe him -- ha, and he makes the most $$ in the family.  The middle one seems to be aware that he did not get into trouble in h.s. but did alot when he was in elementary school.  I don't rub it in with any of them -- they were kids and growing up and I disciplined them then.  Now they have to learn to deal with their problems as adults.  I am grateful they all lived through their growing up years.  there are possibilities if you are alive of getting it together, you know?  Now they are on their own, and have to figure out how to stay alive, stay healthy, and make their way financially and happily.  I am helping them sometimes with $$$, and encouragement, but it is getting to be less and less.  They were brought up without name-brand clothes, or big-ticket items.  They were expected to work for those things if they wanted them, and earn money for a car and car insurance if they wanted to drive and date.  If that was being mean to them, oh wells.  I worked full time as did my ex and despite that, we still sat down together for breakfasts and dinners and participated in all their activities.  That was sacrifice on our parts as parents -- to be responsible, be home to supervise, to cook, to clean and to teach them how to care for themselves.  That included teaching them how to do chores.  If I ever felt too tired and taken advantage of, like a victim, I would figure out how to delegate more work to the sons.   They were getting older and could do more -- they cleared the table, they did the dishes, emptied the dishwasher, did everybody's laundry and took turns with all those jobs.  I used to joke how I got my windows cleaned every week just to make sure everybody was busy.  I didn't need my windows cleaned -- it was the principle.   I made sure they were busy until they graduated from h.s.   How can our AC imagine we need to do anything more?  It certainly isn't because I raised them to think somebody is going to wait on them hand and foot.  good grief!  I am not going to turn the clock back.  Anyways, that is my tirade for letting myself go and not realizing that if I left them make me feel guilty for something it is my own fault.  I made mistakes, but who doesn't?  They are grown up now, and your daughter just like my son have no one to blame but themselves if they are not making it.  Everybody has to work hard, and maybe our economics will turn things back around.  Hope so...
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: luise.volta on December 28, 2011, 06:50:31 pm
That's the bottom line, Smiles...they are responsible. Blaming is just a denial of responsibility. Good for you for being so clear about that. I have yet to meet anyone who had a perfect childhood...growing up is tough. There are no perfect parents and contrary to popular belief, there are no perfect kids. Sending love...
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: firelight on December 28, 2011, 09:21:39 pm
Hi Pattipal4....welcome! 

I was just saying to my DH tonight re: my own GC....  Since my DD and SIL have decided to live on skidrow (literally), my own new grandbabe and SIL's 2 sons will probably grow up to be successful adults....why?  because nothing will ever be handed to them as I handed to  my DD.  They have nothing to hand a soul so anything those GC want, they will have to bust their butts for.....

your comment:  "Maybe with the economic crash and less income, parents will spend less and expect more from their children." is so true. 

You are with cyber friends here and I hope you'll find the same comfort I did with the WW on this site.  It helps us get through the craziness with our own AC.  And I thought after the teen years that sort of craziness would be over.  It kind of starts up another way when they're AC.  We have all scratched our heads wondering where we failed.  But they have minds of their own.  We didn't raise them the way they're acting.  I just had lunch with a friend today who has 3 AC.  2 are doing great and the 1, well, it was like it was like I was looking in the mirror talking with my friend....and I told her so.  There are so many of us going through similar situations.  I think luise is right...it is some sort of cultural shift/paradigm shift.  I don't think it's for the best.  I still have hope for my DD but I'm shocked at what she is settling for and the wonderful bright future she once had and walked away from  to settle for what she has now:  skidrow.  I am learning every day to handle my own emotions and actions but no less, astonished.
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Pooh on December 29, 2011, 05:47:29 am
themuffin, I totally agree with you.  I think of that all the time and do think my kids had an easy life.  Yes, they were disciplined and I didn't just hand over things to them most of the time, trying to instill the "work for it" ethic that we and our parents grew up with.  But when I thought back, my idea of working for it was still handing it to them.  They had a chore list and if they completed everything, I would rent them a game or something they wanted.  Thinking back now, I had a chore list just because I was expected to pitch in and do things.  No reward for it, that was what I was supposed to do. 

The other thing I think my generation did wrong, well myself and everyone I know I should say.  My kids grew up with video games galore, computers and tons of technology.  They had 5-6 different types of game equipment by the time they were young teens.  We bought them at birthdays and Christmas and probably had 100 games too.  When we were growing up, we didn't have that stuff and we had to go outside to play.  That made us use our imagination.  If we were bored, we had to pretend to be knights, pirates, whatever....find a good piece of stick for a sword, cardboard for a shield and create our fortress in the woods.  We had to think and resolve problems.  We had to learn there were consequences if we didn't make it in by dark and figured out the fastest way to our houses from the other neighborhood and had it timed perfectly.  We had to learn how to get the crawdad off our toe because we weren't supposed to be in the creek barefooted anyway.  My two, they didn't have to think.  Bored?  Pop a different game in.  Get on the computer.  They didn't have to resolve issues.  They did not have to use their brain to figure out what to do.  They were never late for curfew because they were sitting in their rooms playing with all that technology.  Can't get past a certain level on a board?  Look up the cheats on the computer instead of spending days figuring it out.  We had a problem...we couldn't move on until we resolved it.  They had a problem....forget that...move along to the next thing.

The good side?  The good habits I taught them along the way stuck with YS and he is doing wonderful and chooses to take responsibility for what he does.  The bad side?  The bad habits I taught them along the way stuck with OS and he's lazy, and moves on when things aren't going his way.

Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: firelight on December 29, 2011, 08:55:43 pm
U said a mouthful there, Smilesback@u!  Life certainly is full of lessons throughout life...who knew we'd still be getting emotional bumps and bruises at this point....and I'm joining you as a lifelong learner too.  Peace back at ya!   8)
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Smilesback@u on December 30, 2011, 12:12:05 pm
Thanks, firelight.  I think it is an everyday job for me right now to not let go of my stance that the Dear Adult Sons, DAS, can figure out for themselves how to spend their time and money without my worrying about it anymore.  I can live without seeing them, and realize they are busy with their own lives.  I read another post, forget who said it, but really, do I need all this drama anymore?  LIfe is short and I have work to do, like the Pooh, for instance, I could count all the bees in the hive.  Lalala, I am going to be 60 in a couple months, still working full time and saving for retirement.  Get a clue, I am not going to pay for airfares to visit me or pick up the tab for restaurant when I visit.  I am not made out of money.  Still have a good rant left in me about this, I guess.  Anyways, keep the laughs coming...they sure help :) 
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Doe on December 30, 2011, 12:27:30 pm
Remember that cats and dogs comparison?

The dog thinks "they love me, they feed me, they play with me and care for me - they must be gods."
The cats thinks "they love me, they feed me, they play with me and care for me - I must be a god."

I'm beginning to think some children are the same way! I'm lucky to have a 'dog' son in addition to 'the cat' son.
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Smilesback@u on December 31, 2011, 10:46:03 am
Wow Ninamarie, just love your post.  So well put and there you are across the water experiencing the same type of generational gap.  It is amazing that we are so close in thought and experience in different countries.  I totally agree with you about not taking on any guilt trips ever again...so when I hear my DS say something that hits my Alert Button--something along the lines of I shoulda, or I owe him, I am sensing that I am in the conflict again.  I wonder whether to object to what he says or just suck it up cuz I am the parent.  I have been through several upsets now with this DS/DIL that I am experienced enough to know that I do not physically tolerate this type of stress of being blamed and expected to do more and more and more to make their lives easier.  I have been guilted with statements that I am not that good, If I don't want a close relationship with the GC, and when I declined to join or planned something without the 2 yr old, I got blasted.  Then what happens next, is that I get physically ill -- I feel confused, dizzy and sick to my stomach almost immediately - like what happened?  I never used to be this way...course I was in control of my life and as a parent did not tolerate being treated with disrespect.  So I agree that we should keep our self respect at all costs -- and I affirm that we should not give over control of our life to our family.  We can pursue our own interests and if the family gets together without a lot of blame game stuff, then fine, otherwise, I am on the side of looking ahead to a bright future, saying directly what I want and forever wishing the best for my DSs and the GC.  I am not open to receiving blame or unrealistic expectations, and I don't approve of hearing threats that it costs too much for the DS/DIL/GC to fly for a visit -- hint hint hint (I am not going to pay for their visit -- I am not Oprah after all with zillions to save the world.  I am a responsible nearly 60 year old, working full time still, who has already raised my 3 sons and worked hard at that.  Since the family is not gungho to visit, I will gladly let go of my DSs so that they can forge their own lives.  Visit or not -- I am certainly getting to where I can live with the No Visits eventuality.  It goes that way even for the very very best relationships between parents and their families.  You are not alone:)
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Pattipal4 on January 05, 2012, 07:19:34 pm
Thanks to all for your understanding and sharing your insight and experiences.  Now that the new year is in full swing, and daily routines are back in place, I am beginning to feel more peaceful about the situation with my 19 year old AD.  We haven't talked and so far I am ok with that.  I sent her the new medical coverage card, even after I said she could find her own coverage, which was said in anger.  I wrote a note with it, "take care, love mom".  That was it.  My remaining fear is that she will stick by what she said and never want a relationship.  That is still really bothering me....the unknown.  This may sound stubborn however I do not wish to be the one to initiate a conversation to make amends.  She needs to do that. Thoughts?


Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: firelight on January 05, 2012, 07:42:21 pm
I get stubborn like that too sometimes but I eventually break down and initiate a communication.  Once the anger is passed, you might too if she doesn't.  I always say I won't do it but I always end up doing it!   ???
ha!
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Pooh on January 06, 2012, 06:33:28 am
I pulled those stubborns too and then a few weeks later would break down and send a text, call...something because I would always go back to the "he needs to know that I love him and think about him".  With my final stubborn it finally hit me that he dang well knows that I love him and think about him.  No reciprocation or answer didn't make ME feel he loved me and that he was thinking about me.  So no more.

I'm supposed to make him feel loved and secure at the cost of allowing him to make me unloved and unwanted??  Bah!  That's why most roads have traffic running both directions.  So everything runs smoothly and equally.  It's those one-way roads that can cause you grief.  I can choose to go down a one-way road, with no expectations of having traffic coming at me, or I can go it in the wrong direction and have a very high potential of a crash.

I choose to hit the freeway with all the people that love me and make me feel loved. 
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Doe on January 06, 2012, 07:41:48 am
I'm with Pooh on this one, and that's also after moving through and past the "but he needs to know I love him" phase.  My epiphany came when I realized that even if my son responded, I didn't like him as much as I used to. (yeah,yeah,yeah, I love him).  I was pining for someone who isn't there anymore.

My suggestion is to do what makes you feel better, regardless of what response you get/don't get from her.  If you need to make a change, it will come from within.
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: themuffin on January 06, 2012, 07:47:56 am
Amen Pooh!!!  I don't know why I felt the need to let DS know that regardless of it all I love him, when he never thought it important that I know the same. 

Why is it that I feel that I have to be the one to reach out and say "Just thinking of you and hope all is well."?  Do you have any idea how many weeks I would be dead before anyone found my decomposing body if someone was depending on DS to check on me????

Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Ruth on January 06, 2012, 01:25:52 pm
O somebody hold me back on this one!   Now this hits home, the 'I need to call him because he needs to know that I love him', and thank you Smiles for the point that how do i feel when ds doesn't contact me, do i feel loved or remembered?  Its a new year, and I'm getting even tougher on bad manners and rude behavior.  I think Tulip you said how long would your dead body lie decomposing if it depended on your ds checking up on you....thank you for mirroring my own thoughts.  I think we are really 'too good' to our a/c, many of them at least, because they don't have a low self esteem as we were told by the psychologists, they have a big arrogant disposition.  For those who can stomach it, the best thing is to not keep giving in to that panic.
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: lisafox41 on January 06, 2012, 03:40:42 pm
Oh yeah!!! For sure my AD knowing how much I love her has never stopped her from treating me horribly. So it is time to change the equation.
She knows my number...this time it is up to her.
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: luise.volta on January 07, 2012, 03:42:01 pm
Yup, moving on to how much you love and respect yourself. Good for you!
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: firelight on January 07, 2012, 08:42:39 pm
so much good, wise stuff on this one!  Pooh that is awesome!  You're right about not getting that love and caring reciprocated yet we keep doing it.  They take us for granted because we teach them to do it! 

I like Doe's idea too, we should do what we want to make us feel better and not be too concerned about what they think of us.....

and the dead decomposing body comment:  LOL....I have wondered that very thing. 
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Pattipal4 on January 10, 2012, 04:44:32 pm
I reached out by phone and called  my 19 year old today.  I kept thinking, God forbid something happen to me, I can't leave the relationship in its current state.  She answered the phone. I told her I missed her, and maybe we could have an adult conversation sometime.  I heard the same angry attitude and blame.  The only glimmer of hope was she said "I hurt her feelings".  At least that tells me there is still a human being in there somewhere underneath all the anger.  My intention was to reach out but not argue.  I was as calm as possible, said I love you and ended the conversation.  I've done and said things myself over the years that I wish I could take back. Only wish she would see her part in this.   I've opened the door, so I can at least live with the situation without bearing all of the guilt. 
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Smilesback@u on January 20, 2012, 10:27:07 am
UPDATE:   >:(  I am disappointed, and angry at the hypocrites -- my DS/DIL.  I was well aware that living up to my beliefs that I am not expected to pay airfares for DS/DIL/GC to visit us -- was not going to be without heartache.  My birthday is next month on the same weekend as my GD who turns "3".  My DS/DIL called to say he was thinking we could celebrate my big "60" at my other DS in AZ.  It was his idea for godsake!  We would all fly from our respective states, meet up in AZ.  So we talked with our other DS and confirmed the invite - we arranged airfare and got the motel.  I did some research on toddler b-day parties and found something affordable.  I was willing to plan and pay for GD celebration in the style DIL demands in order for it be "a nice party" - it would be fun too and less than $25.00 all together.  I thought DIL and I could talk and decide who would buy a cake and any other details.  I always did home parties, myself, with homemade games and prizes, homemade cake and I would invite the number of guests based on their age (3 year olds - get to have 3 guests etc).  DS/DIL on the other hand spend a heckuva lot more as do their group of friends --for designer parties planned at Gymboree etc.  Sorreee -- these may be more for the parents than the preschoolers in my book -- keeping up with the Joneses never looked so riiiidiiiiculous.  So a couple weeks ago I called to confirm with DS/DIL that we are all set to go to PHX.  Only I hear then, "we were just thinking about it.  It is in the preliminary stages.  It is going to cost a lot to fly all 4 of us"---- blah blah blah.  I confirmed we are going to go and hope they can too.  So today, I called DS to see if he received our Christmas presents (as they had been visiting DIL's family over Christmas, which is the same old story -- it is ALL about HER family).  He did, said they were nice.  Ok, good enough, I will take that as a yes for receiving photobooks of our visits together.  I liked these gifts to speak for me like FACTS which  speak louder than words -- we care, we are family and we show it.  We chatted it up about the GC and DIL's family - everybody is doing well.  DS is having our other DS (his stepbro) stay with them 5 days.  Kudos to DS/DIL for opening their home to him.  So there is good in everyone.  Let me not go over that too lightly.  But there is a BUT, because DIL wants 3 year old GD to have a party with her 3 year old friends, they could not find another weekend for her party since they have so many bday parties scheduled to go to.  They will not be able to go to AZ to celebrate her bday or mine.   :-[  I listened, not really shocked or surprised.  Is it all about money?  Probably.  Am I going to wish I had paid for their airfares?  No.  Stop me if I do - please.  (They can afford it -- he is a lawyer making 6 figures).  I spoke my mind, though.  "I said I was disappointed.  I said travel then is fine weather wise, no worries.  I said I have to respect where they are coming from.  It would be nice to celebrate birthdays all together as a *family*.   We cannot be at everyone's birthday that's for sure. " (Which is true...but so why not try when you can?)  I tell you truly, I get what Doe said - I am pining away for someone who is not there anymore.  Good luck DS with your DIL, you are both hypocrites -- all talk about family being soooo important.  But what you really mean is, family is expected to spend, spend, spend on you, you, you -- and when it comes to visiting together, the money better roll out of our pockets or you don't make the time to see us or show us affection.  I am so DONE with feeling guilty that I have not done enough for them.  Forget it, then.  Ok luise, pooh and dear WWU friends -  I will do that - re=focus on loving myself, spending good times with reciprocating peoples or at least not go out of my way with family who do not intend to act like adults.  I am not going to Mother these people as if they were children and feel guilty that I am not doing enough.  Hope you get me, and don't blame me for ranting on.  I love my DS, but how much hypocrisy can one stand?   
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Smilesback@u on January 20, 2012, 10:28:25 am
Quote from: Smilesback@u on December 30, 2011, 12:12:05 pm
Thanks, firelight.  I think it is an everyday job for me right now to not let go of my stance that the Dear Adult Sons, DAS, can figure out for themselves how to spend their time and money without my worrying about it anymore.  I can live without seeing them, and realize they are busy with their own lives.  I read another post, forget who said it, but really, do I need all this drama anymore?  LIfe is short and I have work to do, like the Pooh, for instance, I could count all the bees in the hive.  Lalala, I am going to be 60 in a couple months, still working full time and saving for retirement.  Get a clue, I am not going to pay for airfares to visit me or pick up the tab for restaurant when I visit.  I am not made out of money.  Still have a good rant left in me about this, I guess.  Anyways, keep the laughs coming...they sure help :)


Still have a rant about all of this - god help me, amen. 
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: luise.volta on January 20, 2012, 10:42:09 am
Smiles - You are "cluttering everything up with logic!" You aren't supposed to think, much less feel. And I am with you 100%. There is the self-respect factor. I think that when we devalue ourselves and let others steamroll us, it is seriously harmful. I mean that. Good for you for taking a stand...within yourself...regarding not being the doormat. Sending love...
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Smilesback@u on January 20, 2012, 11:04:35 am
 :'(  big thank you luise.
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Pooh on January 20, 2012, 12:15:10 pm
That's it Smiles!  It's ok for you to be angry....it's normal to be angry when things like that happen.  Now, do something positive with that anger.  You've paid your airfare and hotel and have your other DS to go visit for your birthday!  Have a wonderful time, laugh...enjoy yourself and phooey on them.  They are the ones losing out.
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Smilesback@u on January 20, 2012, 01:24:45 pm
boo-hoo, really, I do feel rejected, and hurt.  Sorry to say that, and also sorry that money seems to come between my oldest DS and me, so pathetic to see this happen.  Maybe I will develop a more positive attitude, but I doubt DS will ever get over not being able to get me to fork over money when he wants.  He loves Monopoly -- and my feelings are not a game, so will stop thinking about it if I can.  I am not going to seek revenge or avoid him.  I will just be thoughtful about how I respond next time to the idea that we are going to all get together.  I really jumped at it this time.  Thanks again Pooh, Yah, *phooey on them*  ...I will go on with my own life, chin up, put a lift in my step, (I will probably have to lose some weight to do that I think, ;)  and I will continue to speak my mind and heart with meaning to him.  I recognize that I am not getting any younger, and since I am going to be 60 years young, I have more that I want to do before I am gone, which does not include getting set up for disappointments, like this.  This is something I guess I had to learn, first hand, so that I hopefully do not do this to someone else.  I don't remember setting someone up for a visit and then *negging out* on them.  I have done something like this cancelling a lunch or dinner, and I promise I will not do that again either if I can avoid it.  This one hurt and I am going to get over it.     
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: luise.volta on January 20, 2012, 01:56:54 pm
Smiles - You already sound better!  :D Venting can be very healthy when we are willing to let it take us back into balance. And you're right, we learn not to do that to others unless it is a serious situation...and I think most people understand that.

Years ago I used to vent and get so attached to it and so sorry for myself that I just made things bigger and worse. "Oh, the injustice of it all..etc.") Now, I usually journal or share how rotten "it" is with you guys and POOF, it gets reduced to a manageable size. :) I also figured out long ago, who did that routinely and I give them a lot of room before I take them seriously. I also set up Option B in advance.  ;)
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Smilesback@u on January 20, 2012, 03:08:37 pm
Yes, I am feeling better, more aware that I have a different set of expectations when it comes to our family get togethers.  I liked what you said earlier that I can think and feel, and direct myself accordingly.  Nothing has changed there just because my DS are grown up.  Thanks for being her, y'all. 
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Pen on January 20, 2012, 08:33:55 pm
Smiles, plan a great time for yourself that doesn't hinge on anyone else. If they choose to join you & DH, great! If not, you'll have a wonderful time anyway. Their loss.

I was talking to a younger woman at work today who told me about the big party (in a tropical paradise) she and her sibs were planning for their mom's "big" birthday. They were all pitching in so Mom would have no travel expenses, nothing to do but sit on her beach chair and enjoy her family. I must admit to a twinge of jealousy, OK more than a twinge. But if I wait for something like that to happen to me I'll wait forever...just not in the stars for me, I'm afraid. I'll figure out a way to take my own silly self to a tropical paradise!
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Pooh on January 21, 2012, 05:44:57 am
That's what I like about our cruises.  I can feel like the boat is my party!  I can have multiple desserts, in my honor and soak up the sun that's been placed there just for me!  Not to mention when they come around to ask about drinks all day, I know they are there for my party....hee hee.  We can make our own parties and strangers that come to my party are fun and I get to be myself. 

Make your own party!
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Smilesback@u on January 21, 2012, 08:47:20 am
Ok, you are officially invited to my forever young party for the rest of my life.  Love you Wise Women you :)
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Pen on January 21, 2012, 10:06:03 am
We really do need to plan a cruise or other sort of WWU meetup...how many mani/pedi stations do you suppose they could fit in one spa?  ;D
Wouldn't that be a hoot, all of us getting pampered at one time?

Mimosas & leis for everyone! The ship departs now!
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: luise.volta on January 21, 2012, 11:45:29 am
All aboard...!!!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: Smilesback@u on January 21, 2012, 01:20:22 pm
.....Aloha....tiny bubbles in my wine, makes me happy, makes me feel fine  ::)
Title: Re: 19 year old daughter disrespect
Post by: luise.volta on January 21, 2012, 02:46:15 pm
I need more sun screen...(Thanks, Kirk!)