FDIL,
I am a person with feelings. I am a human who will make mistakes, say things you don't like ans sometimes speak without thinking. Much, like yourself.
I am the mother of three, mother-in-law of two and grandmother of three. I am a daughter, sister and aunt. I am a friend and an employee. I am your future husbands mother. I must have done something right, after all you choose him. He didn't raise himself. What I am not is a puppy to be trained or fenced in with boundaries. How would you feel if I thought it was my place to train YOU?
You and I come from very different place and have had different life experiences. Just because you are marrying my son doesn't mean I will greet everything you and by extension my son decide to do with a big HURRAY. I am entitled to my opinions. I have NO intention of changing who I am or what I think to please you. You can not mold me into what you think I should be anymore than I can mold you into what I think you should be.
What you and I owe each other is courtesy and respect. I fully intend to hold up my end of that bargain. I hope you will do the same.
(I am not sending this...I just wanted to get this off my chest) Thoughts? Anyone else fee this way?
That's exquisite! I could adapt it so easily to a letter to a future MIL. It is about relating with respect and honoring individuality. What a concept! Beautiful!
The hard part about it for me is that many don't need such a communication, they are great from the get-go and those who do need it probably wouldn't read it, understand it or put it to use. I wonder why that is? We are often so *right* in our wrongness.
Here Here! I do believe you have a letter worth reading! I know it's one worth response and if it weren't a letter, I would say it is definately - sendable! The only problems with letters is that you can't look into someone's eyes and see "sincerity."
This was a good thing! Thank you!
Absolutely no corrections...
That's true...no corrections, just appreciation. That would be a great letter, too, on the eve of a marriage for a future wife to give to future husband.
I love the letter.
Wouldn't it be great to have this imprinted inside of a greeting card (Hallmark or American Greetings)?
Future DIL could comprehend the words/message on her own........
If DIL became huffy after reading it, we could literally say "it is just a card." ;)
Again, the words are so honest and from the heart.
I wish I would have had this letter to send to my DIL prior to my son's wedding.
MomX3,
I can see a DIL getting card.
This is what she'd say:
"I can't believe this!! Who does your mother think she is!! Are you going to stand up for me?? I am not going to allow this woman to talk to me in a mean way! Are you going to tell her off? I am your wife...you need to stand up for me. Look what she has done to me!!! She doesn't know we're a family! Are you going to stand up for me? She's trying to take over our family. Are you going to stand up for me? We need to cut her off!! She is in cut off starting now!!"
LOL..........you are so right.
That is exactly what my DIL would say.
Quoteluise.volta
The hard part about it for me is that many don't need such a communication, they are great from the get-go and those who do need it probably wouldn't read it, understand it or put it to use. I wonder why that is? We are often so *right* in our wrongness.
Your perceptions Luise are extremely astute....
I think for the very reasons I did the same thing, I couldn't view anyone else's point of view but mine....I was very foolish in thinking that every thing in my life was to stay the same when my son married...I wasn't able to view, that another life now was to be learned and observed as valid and valuable, even thought our feelings about things were so different...
We were both much younger then...and I believe we've matured and grown....and we both wanted it to work...we both dropped our guards and finally listened to each other, instead of insisting we were right and valid in our feelings...and refusing to acknowledge that we did hurt each other...
I needed to change...to realize change was also going to effect our lives...to learn to back off and allow...and smile while waving good bye...
Quotejkm
QuoteI am a person with feelings. I am a human who will make mistakes, say things you don't like ans sometimes speak without thinking. Much, like yourself.
We are both human beings, with feelings...we are people who have and will continue to make mistakes....say things we don't like, and will unfortunately at times, speak without thinking.
QuoteI am the mother of three, mother-in-law of two and grandmother of three. I am a daughter, sister and aunt. I am a friend and an employee. I am your future husbands mother. I must have done something right, after all you choose him. He didn't raise himself. What I am not is a puppy to be trained or fenced in with boundaries. How would you feel if I thought it was my place to train YOU?
I understand your feelings, and they are correct, however, I don't believe your DIL means to make it sound like she wants to train you, she simply wants you to respect her ways of doing things...and accepting her ways of doing things as who she is, even if you don't think and feel the same way? And there must be boundaries...and I say this in all love and understanding of how you feel, however, just b/c my son married someone, doesn't entitle me to walk into they're home and do things the way I would normally do things in mine...I am a guest in her home, and it is her home, as well as my sons...they are now a couple, a whole differnent entity which is going to require new rules...she isn't going to be like you...she's excited to start her own traditions, her own way of doing things, she is now a wife and eager to please you and her husband, but only in the way that she was trained to do by her parents...
QuoteYou and I come from very different place and have had different life experiences. Just because you are marrying my son doesn't mean I will greet everything you and by extension my son decide to do with a big HURRAY. I am entitled to my opinions. I have NO intention of changing who I am or what I think to please you. You can not mold me into what you think I should be anymore than I can mold you into what I think you should be.
I would write, we come from very different places...with differnt life experiences....and we won't always agree...we have much life to conquere, and change is always inevitable, the world keeps on turning, as we, humans keep on evolving, learning and growing...I'm looking forward to sharing that road and learning from each other....and we have so much to learn together...
QuoteWhat you and I owe each other is courtesy and respect. I fully intend to hold up my end of that bargain. I hope you will do the same.
Excellent
Quote(I am not sending this...I just wanted to get this off my chest) Thoughts?
Anyone else fee this way
I used to feel this way, but then I wanted change more then anything, and realized this was effecting everyone in a very bad way, not just me...I realized, my thoughts and actions dictate to others in either a kind way or a very negative way....and I realized, if I wanted change, I was the one who was going to have to start changing. Change is inevidable, until the day we die...and if we fight change, we hurt ourselves...we constantly grow for all of our lives, through all the people we meet, we are constantly learning....evolving...into a better plain...I believe our journey is to find peace...and sometimes I ponder if we aren't thrown together on purpose...to learn what we need to learn to continue to flourish in this life....
I tried to think of it this way...earth has a soul....so does every living thing, including my DIL...and everyone in my life that I've disagreed with...I've also learned, it's my choice, and a lot of things which happen to me are by my choice...do I want to be stubborn, and stagnate my journey, or continue learning...?
I think this is a wonderful vent, and much needed...however, if you sent this to your DIL, I believe it would only make things worse....only because it sounds athoritative, and more like, your telling her, she needs to respect you, and think, act and feel the way you do...and I know you don't mean it that way....but I wrote a letter to my DIL similar to this once, and it only made things worse...she took it very wrong and not the way I meant it...why? Because she felt the very same exact way....
I hope you know, I do understand your thoughts and feelings and my intention is to help you see...not hurt you...
I would like to suggest, you take that letter, and pretend it came from her, and read it as if she were sending it to you, then ask yourself, how would I feel if she sent this to me.
To me, being" right" has been a cover-up for fear. Being open and willing to listen suggested that I didn't "know" and I wasn't wise enough for decades to understand that "not knowing is a learning stance" and offers the greatest riches of all.
What I picture when two people are both presenting the "be right" posture...is two people who are wearing ear plugs and are shouting at each other without ever hearing a thing. No one is present and no movement is possible.
I was thinking about this too. I'm so glad that Creme chimed in - I love what she said and I don't think it would have been taken the same way, if it was written by a DIL.
The idea that came to my head was of a new person coming into a crowded place, they will never fit in if you don't scooch a bit and make some room for them.
JKM I hope that your FDIL doesn't expect to come in and sprawl herself out. But I also hope that you and your family will scooch a bit to make some room for her.
Scoop
PS - I didn't check or anything, but I do believe that "scooch" is a technical term ;D ;D
H ;DAHAHA .....good one, Scoop
No, to be absolutely correct...I think scootch a "scientifical" term! Hardy-har-har-har!
I'm laughing so hard....
you guys are great!
Totally scientific, Luise :)
To clarify...I don't want to be right. I want to be "free to be me"(Marlo Thomas anyone?). I could care less how she arranges her home, her closets, her life.
I have traditions too. They deserve the same respect as my FDIL's.
Here is the thing which really gets me. Don't tell me your plans and expect a "Wow, thats wonderful.", if I don't feel that way. I wouldn't expect you to do the same, if I wanted to, say blow my savings on a trip to Vegas or any other not so bright thing. I am allowed to disagree with you without thinking it is an attack. You are allowed to disagree with me and I promise I won't think it is an attack.
My DIL(son #1 wife) has spoiled me so. She and I, can and have disagreed on numerous subjects. We both feel free to express our opinions to each other and have since day one. No one ever walks away feeling attacked or needing to "cut the other one off." It also helps we are similar in many ways. We read the same books and often pass them between ourselves. Our kitchens are decorated in the same theme and we kid about who copied who, although neither of remember.
ETA: To FDIL
My sons love for you in no way diminishes his for me or visa versa. You are his soon to be bride and I am Mom. Totally different loves both equal and strong.
That last sentence should be put on a plaque! Very wise , jkm! :)
I love that last sentence too Coco! :) :) :)
My sons love for you in no way diminishes his for me or visa versa. You are his soon to be bride and I am Mom. Totally different loves both equal and strong.
Whoa!!!!
I love it and yes, should be on a plaque!!!!
This thread has me recall the time author Ayelet Waldman (Daughter's Keeper) confessed in the New York Times that she loved her husband more than her four children.
She was in love with her husband, but not her children. She felt she could survive her children's deaths, if she'd have him, but feared that she could not survive his death.
The "cultural" backlash against her was swift and immediate (Oprah, The View). It was considered heresy. In the wake of the furor, she titled her next book, Bad Mother.
"As a parent, I am absolutely certain of only one thing: my own fallibility."
Definitely a "Sophie's Choice" moment. I have 2 friends who said the same thing to me when my kids were small and hers were too. I was shocked when they said, "if we were stranded at sea and captising and I could only save one, I'd save my husband"
I think it goes against the grain of a Mother to think that but some do.
I can't imagine not saving my grandchildren first, then my children. Husbands come and go(50% divorce rate). Husbands often die first anyway. Of course I mat be a tad biased. I have been hapily single since 1996. LOL
I guess you can count me in on that Chickie and JKM! I read that and thought - "second book titled Bad Mother? Appropriately!" HAHAHA!
Husband is a "big boy" and should be out there saving the kids next to his wife. Just my feelings... :)
and smile while waving good bye...
So, touching how you are evolving and growing, Creme.
MIW, noticed my changes since my first post, and it is like a playback of how we can work
through thoughts and learn and become more aware.
Ren
Quote from: jkm426 on March 12, 2010, 09:39:07 AM
I can't imagine not saving my grandchildren first, then my children. Husbands come and go(50% divorce rate). Husbands often die first anyway. Of course I mat be a tad biased. I have been hapily single since 1996. LOL
your post reminded me of three women I know who just lost they're husbands, this past year...they had very good marriages, and one of them told me, she'd never consider another man in her life, that she had the best...I had to keep composure, when she said that...just thought it waas worthwhile sharing....
Quote from: renny97 on March 12, 2010, 10:10:46 AM
and smile while waving good bye...
So, touching how you are evolving and growing, Creme.
MIW, noticed my changes since my first post, and it is like a playback of how we can work
through thoughts and learn and become more aware.
Ren
Whew, Ren, thank you, I cannot express in words how I feel...no more dark clouds following me around everyday...LOL
The Bad Mother public outrage that followed Ayelet Waldman's declaration that she loved someone else more than her children, is almost ironic given this wonderful board.
The MILs on the internets are often accused of loving their sons "too much." As if loving your son's a sin, or a sign of a personality problem. Or that it's weakness, or a debilitation, for a mother to love her son with all of her heart, more than anyone else. Gasp, perhaps a mother does loves her son more than her husband. Yet the culture at large villianizes a Harvard lawyer turned stay-at-home mom, for explaining how her love for her four children is not the hub of her emotional universe. She received hate mail taped to her front gate. Oprah's audience booed her.
The vehement reaction to her honest personal statement, would make it seem to be a "Good Mother" in our culture, is to love your child more than anyone else. To have your child be more important to your emotions, than your soul mate and life partner.
"If a good mother is one who loves her child more than anyone else in the world, I am not a good mother. I am in fact a bad mother. I love my husband more than I love my children."
If these internets are any indication, then Good Mother is "supposed to" love her son more than anyone else.....until, of course, his 18th bday or the day he gets a girlfriend.
Then as of that day, and no later, Good Mother is supposed to now love him less. Perhaps as of that one day, Good Mother is then culturally "allowed" to love her husband more, without being cast as "Bad Mother." If anyone knows how to set their emotions on a calendar, let me know.
Perhaps because no emotional calendar switch is needed, the "Bad Mother" may be better prepared to be the internet's idea of the "Good" Mother In Law.
I don't believe the feelings I expressed said anything about "who I loved more." What I meant in my statement is that the parents are responsible for their young children. As a mother, I can tell you that if I didn't try to save a helpless child, then I would have no reason to survive myself, because guilt would haunt the rest of my days. I don't believe it was a "measure of love" that outraged society, but maybe an outrage that a parent wouldn't protect her own helpless child...
Just my feelings.
JKM I didn't mean to go off topic, the plaque statement about parental and spousal loves being equal and strong loves, that reminded me of that old story. Thought it could be interesting what could it tell us today, to give understanding about conflicting cultural messages about love.
Your DIL #1 seems to get you, and get herself. FDIL sounds like she could be like a lot of girls I know. Some insecure people really do take disagreement as insults. Even about personal things, like music or desserts.
You welcome differing points of view, because you understand another person's point of view is uniquely theirs for their reasons, and so it's no reflection of you, or the value of your opinions. If I find out more, I can change my opinion. (To learn there exists a finer treat than Red Velvet Cupcakes would be my pleasure). The value of my opinions, is no reflection of my value. But not everyone has the same conviction. Some people have a ton of self-doubt. They seek not healthy exchange of ideas, but simply approval. Especially from maternal figures (teacher, boss, mentor, relatives). That's OK, that's just what they seek in interactions.
I've seen students cry or break into hives when a teacher adds to their already good answer. They'll talk about it for the rest of the semester. Attempts at devil's advocate result in claims of being publicly humiliated. They don't want to learn from the teacher they're paying to teach them, they just want the teacher to tell them their answers are right, so they can feel good about themselves. Sometimes I think they don't even care if their info's right, as much as to be told they are.
Plenty of people react as if a different opinion is an attack, FDIL might be one of those types. With people like that whom I want to feel comfortable with me (family, co-workers, friends of friends) I admit, I tend to nod a lot. I'll find something positive in what they say and focus on that. If don't feel like some of my opinions are going to be wanted, or helpful to the convivality, why bother. I know my own opinions, and those closest to me know them. When it doesn't affect me, it's easier to just listen, than to share like I usually do. I don't have to spout em all over every time, LOL. I can still be me. I don't have to show every side of me to everyone, especially when what they mainly want to talk about is them.
And to get back on topic, that's my two cents on how I try to communicate with those prone to feeling disagreement is disapproval .
Coco maybe I didn't do the Waldman story justice. She took care of her children, was a devoted stay at home mother who protected and mommy-and-me educated her children.
It was only her statement about feeling "more" spousal versus parental love in a newspaper Modern Love column, that prompted the label "Bad Mother" and caused the young mother media blitz against her. (She also happened to write that she feels her husband loves her children more than her.)
It just seemed like cultural hypocracy, for society to send one loud message that Bad Mother is a woman who will not put her great love for her children at her axis,
and yet the same society (vis a vis internets) will try to say the same woman, the same Good Mother love is somehow "wrong" for her to have, depending on the month of the calendar.
I am thinking of motherhood, and reading JKM's words, the idea that I could possibly feel love for someone equal to or greater than the love I feel for my husband, and the supposed evolution of love, then when they grow up where the love goes.....is supposed to go, and, then leading to thoughts of DH's mother, of course, and her love for him. Thank you for listening. Have a great weekend everyone.
Modified - If it interests anyone
The original Modern Love column http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/27/fashion/27love.html
Article about the cultural firestorm that followed http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/04/AR2009050403451.html
Well, see Sassy. I don't believe you're all wrong, and I don't believe that's all right either. -and I wasn't insulted...
I think love and the protection of a mother are two different things. At one time, I loved my husband so much and trusted him to the point that my entire world was him. Well that was a mistake and I was not so young, but dumb anyway to believe in a man that way (I hope nobody takes that the wrong way - it's just my experience and I've spent a lifetime looking for one "like Dad" only to find there are no others). I believe you can love your husband to the exclusion - yes, but if a ship were sinking and my children were drowning, by God my husband better be right in ther with me getting those kids! I'm not sure how to explain it...
Maybe it is a hipocracy. I have to think about it, and I just got home and I've noticed I'm better in the morning. I'm marking this, so I can explain how I feel then.
But - I in no way thought you were wrong. I can see those two sides and I think the fact that "LOVE" want brought into it was a mistake. Only because there are different kinds of love, but no ONE is more important - unless a ship is sinking and your helpless children are in the water. Then I'd have to reach for Orly's 2x4 if my husband wasn't helping me... ;D
Quote from: cremebrulee on March 12, 2010, 11:18:03 AM
Quote from: jkm426 on March 12, 2010, 09:39:07 AM
I can't imagine not saving my grandchildren first, then my children. Husbands come and go(50% divorce rate). Husbands often die first anyway. Of course I mat be a tad biased. I have been hapily single since 1996. LOL
your post reminded me of three women I know who just lost they're husbands, this past year...they had very good marriages, and one of them told me, she'd never consider another man in her life, that she had the best...I had to keep composure, when she said that...just thought it waas worthwhile sharing....
The thought of losing any one of my children or my dh is beyond unbearable. When I was 17 my brother was murdered and I don't know how my parents survived. I don't think they ever fully recovered. At the time I thought I was going through just as much as his sister, but once I was a parent, I realized that as a parent it would be even worse for me.
I can relate to the woman Creme referred to who didn't think she could consider another man in her life after losing her husband - I feel that way about my husband. No one else could compare. He is such a blessing to me.
As far as the unsent letter to future dil - well written, but she is wise not to send it. My sister sent a similar type letter, toned down a bit, to her dil and it was a big mistake. It caused a lot of hard feelings and I don't recommend it.
jkm - I just love your humor!!!!!!
I feel that way about my husband, too; he's such a prince. The crown simply can't pass. Also, there is a part of me that feels I need to learn to live independently when that is forced on m, (he is 98 and failing.) I have been married 60 years...all of my adult life (the last 20 to Val.) There is also another part of me that doesn't want to negotiate my life with another person again. That's a two-sided sword because there is the assignment to learn to differentiate between aloneness and loneliness.
I too, have lost a child. My eldest son died of sleep apnea that caused a stroke at 52. I've written about that at length elsewhere on our forum. We were both working very hard to get through our issues but hadn't gotten past walking-on-eggs. His widow wrote me a horrible hate letter nine days after he died, blaming me for every problem he ever had and painting me as pure evil.
We all react in our own unique way to loss, I suppose. My neighbor just lost her Mother and her dog and she misses her dog more. The dog lived with her and gave her unconditional love and her mother was in a nursing home with dementia. I guess I can understand that.
Quote from: Hope on March 12, 2010, 08:22:31 PM
Quote from: cremebrulee on March 12, 2010, 11:18:03 AM
Quote from: jkm426 on March 12, 2010, 09:39:07 AM
I can't imagine not saving my grandchildren first, then my children. Husbands come and go(50% divorce rate). Husbands often die first anyway. Of course I mat be a tad biased. I have been hapily single since 1996. LOL
your post reminded me of three women I know who just lost they're husbands, this past year...they had very good marriages, and one of them told me, she'd never consider another man in her life, that she had the best...I had to keep composure, when she said that...just thought it waas worthwhile sharing....
The thought of losing any one of my children or my dh is beyond unbearable. When I was 17 my brother was murdered and I don't know how my parents survived. I don't think they ever fully recovered. At the time I thought I was going through just as much as his sister, but once I was a parent, I realized that as a parent it would be even worse for me.
I can relate to the woman Creme referred to who didn't think she could consider another man in her life after losing her husband - I feel that way about my husband. No one else could compare. He is such a blessing to me.
As far as the unsent letter to future dil - well written, but she is wise not to send it. My sister sent a similar type letter, toned down a bit, to her dil and it was a big mistake. It caused a lot of hard feelings and I don't recommend it.
jkm - I just love your humor!!!!!!
Hope, I'm very very sorry to read about your brother....I can't imagine it either...very difficult...and one must have a whole lot of faith to survive that...but people do...and the one thing which probably drives them on is that they know they're child wouldn't want them to suffer....and we'd feel the same way for our children, if we'd pass away....
Hugs to you
The fact that you use references to the notion that you don't need your DIL to set "boundaries" Shows me that you have absolutely no sense of personal boundaries and your DIL has been forced to set them for you!!! Its obvious to me you don't want anyone setting boundaries because you believe your son and DIL do not deserve any privacy. And you want to feel free to be as intrusive as you desire!! Anything to do with their relationship, finances, debt, wedding plans, child rearing views, career choices, decorating styles, wardrobe choices, purchases they make, or their plans for the holidays, or even down to what they had for dinner is none of you business!
And please at any time you feel the desire or need to visit without calling first or without a clear cut invitation-resist the urge!! You are imposing!!!!!! When they want or need your advice rest assured they will come ask for it! Their is no need to force it upon them! All you will manage to do is permanently destroy your relationship with your son and ruin any chances of having any contact with your future grandchildren! I warn you! Tread lightly or you will lose your son forever! His loyalty lies with his wife as it should! P.S. Manipulating and guilt trips won't get you anywhere either!
Well, I'm sorry you took offense to this post Leslie. Welcome. I don't believe you will get any argument from anyone here that the MIL doesn't belong in the DH and DIL's lives. We have many other DIL's on this site who I believe know that.
Really, just go through some of the other posts here and read them, so you can see that is not what Wise Women Unite is about.
I hope you do, and I hope you see what I'm telling you is true. We are not here to interfere, anymore than we believe DIL's are just trying to make us miserable, but we are all trying to learn from eachother about how to have that healthy relationship we all want.
Hugging you! And yes, I hope you feel that!
Would you please modify your post by taking out the capital letters and multiple exclamation marks? Thanks. That is considered "shouting", isn't needed and can be inflammatory. The letter wasn't sent...it was hypothetical reflecting some very difficult history that has been experienced here. We're all on the same "side" here which is to do our best.
Leslie,
Your attitude is one of hate, this site is not like that...you need to read more before you post.
Quote from: leslie9800 on March 16, 2010, 09:27:47 AM
The fact that you use references to the notion that you don't need your DIL to set "boundaries" Shows me that you have absolutely no sense of personal boundaries and your DIL has been forced to set them for you!!! Its obvious to me you don't want anyone setting boundaries because you believe your son and DIL do not deserve any privacy. And you want to feel free to be as intrusive as you desire!! Anything to do with their relationship, finances, debt, wedding plans, child rearing views, career choices, decorating styles, wardrobe choices, purchases they make, or their plans for the holidays, or even down to what they had for dinner IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And please at any time you feel the desire or need to visit without calling first or without a clear cut invitation-RESIST THE URGE!! You are imposing!!!!!! When they want or need your advice rest assured they will come ask for it! Their is no need to force it upon them! All you will manage to do is permanentl destroy your relationship with your son and ruin any chances of having any contact with your future grandchildren!!! I WARN YOU!!! TREAD LIGHTLY! OR YOU WILL LOSE YOUR SON FOREVER!! HIS LOYALTY LIES WITH HIS WIFE AS IT SHOULD!!! P.S. Manipulating and guilt trips won't get you anywhere either!
I totally understand where you are coming from and what your trying to say Leslie...however, I'm guessing your saying this with a lot of anger due to the fact that you are having trouble with your MIL or future MIL? Not everyone is alike, and while we mother's do forget, that our son's have married someone who didn't grow up like we did, with our beliefs and traditions...we become excited to have this new member in our family and yes, maybe even a daughter....what we don't realize is what you said...that our son's have married a completely ifferent person with different ideas and beliefs....
We also forget we were young once, and how we felt when our MIL's intruded....I'm not siding here with anyone, but what I'm trying to explain, is, we forget, and expect things to stay the same, and they don't. and that is the hardest most difficult thing to understand...that, we must leave our son's go and become guests in they're homes...b/c that home is not just they're but also they're wives which doesn't give us entitlement to intrude....and we do, we overstep our boundaries...way to much....there are some mother's that are really smothering, and what makes you young wives angry is the fact that you fear saying anything, and by the time you do, it's way to late, your so stressed out your ready to boil, and it comes out wrong, or in other ways...but your MIL does know your angry with her.
What it's all about is lack of communication between the MIL and DIL....and I believe if your dealing with two mature people, there is no reason why two of you cannot sit down and discuss things...reasonable, taking ownership and listening, even if you don't like what they are saying...
I know DIL's and MIL's who get along famously, why is that...? Matter of fact, all of my family and friends get along so well with they're DIL's...why? Well, I think it's b/c neither of them feel like they have to win...they compromise...
One of the hardest things to do, is admit that we're wrong, and say I'm really sorry I hurt your feelings, I didn't mean to do that...it wasn't meant to hurt your feelings.
I read, and I don't know if it was in here, but where a MIL, went into a DIL's home and cleaned her door window....now what If I came into your home and did that? Some people could care less, however, what it says to some is, YOUR HOME IS FILTHY...and that's a horrible thing to do to a DIL...you don't go into your friends home and tell them how to decorate they're home, or clean they're home....I remember when I visited my DIL's home, I wanted to run the vaccume for her, b/c I was there visiting, however, I betcha she took offense to that offer...at the time I had longer hair and it fell out all over the place, and I was so embarrassed I wanted to clean it up off the bathroom floor...but I betcha, when I asked her if I could do it, it hurt her feelings...why, b/c she didn't know why and I was so embarrassed I didn't want to tell her why...and that is the way things start...over little things...
Leslie, we would value your input if you want to contribute...however, I am suggesting the only way we're going to learn together is if you tone down your words to a softer and more caring way....and I know you can do that, and I realize, it took a lot of courage for you to come in here and post...and perhaps it's a wall of anger, not intended towards us, but with a problem you yourself are experiencing.
We get no where with anger and malace, and everywhere by discussing an issue and listenting to each other....and yes, there must be boundaries in every home...
I would hate it if someone stopped by my home without calling first...I work all week long, so I don't want company a lot, and I don't expect people to stay and stay and stay. Short visits are nice...
I'm sorry but that is the way I am...when I have dinner guests, I expect everyone to sit around the table and have a good time...I don't want company getting up and clearning my table, or washing my dishes....they are the guests...but, Leslie, everyone is different...my entire family were the kind of people who just dropped by, and that has a lot to do with the older generation...in our days, our worlds were much smaller, we didn't drive to other towns, we didn't have cars..therefore, we visited each other...a lot...even neighborhoods were closer...you knocked on the door and walked in...however, not everyone was like that either...and do you bleieve none of us locked our doors back then? We lived in small towns....
So, we need understanding and patience from both sides here if we are going to help each other...
you can't walk into a site as the new kid, yelling at someone and expect to get a public welcome...however, I understand your fears and your anger, and suggest you come back and talk to us....tell us what is going on and lets discuss this...together...as a team who cares about each other and getting along?
Whataya say?
Creme
Leslie, another thing ... as a DIL, my first reaction to this letter WAS to get my back up.
BUT then I went to Members, selected CatchingUp, and selected to read all of her posts.
If you do that, you will see that she is not one of *those* MIL's and she is in fact dealing with one of *those* DIL's.
This is a different kind of message board - you just can't come storming in like that. I'm sorry you got off on the wrong foot, try and lurk for a bit and then do some research before posting next time.
Quote from: leslie9800 on March 16, 2010, 09:27:47 AM
The fact that you use references to the notion that you don't need your DIL to set "boundaries" Shows me that you have absolutely no sense of personal boundaries and your DIL has been forced to set them for you!!! Its obvious to me you don't want anyone setting boundaries because you believe your son and DIL do not deserve any privacy. And you want to feel free to be as intrusive as you desire!! Anything to do with their relationship, finances, debt, wedding plans, child rearing views, career choices, decorating styles, wardrobe choices, purchases they make, or their plans for the holidays, or even down to what they had for dinner IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And please at any time you feel the desire or need to visit without calling first or without a clear cut invitation-RESIST THE URGE!! You are imposing!!!!!! When they want or need your advice rest assured they will come ask for it! Their is no need to force it upon them! All you will manage to do is permanentl destroy your relationship with your son and ruin any chances of having any contact with your future grandchildren!!! I WARN YOU!!! TREAD LIGHTLY! OR YOU WILL LOSE YOUR SON FOREVER!! HIS LOYALTY LIES WITH HIS WIFE AS IT SHOULD!!! P.S. Manipulating and guilt trips won't get you anywhere either!
Leslie you sound as if you have an interferring mother-in-law.
You aught to read my posts--I had a mother -in-law who was a sergeant major in the second world war.
She had a full time domestic,char and gardener and handed out orders left right and center.
She had her children standing up and saying good evening sir to their father --goodness I hugged and kissed my dad hello.
Then I came on the scene and when I married her son I couldn't make my own choices.
She wanted to choose the curtains,do the garden amd believe you me if I tried to do or did anything it was criticized.
She dug a hole so deep it was impossible to get out of it
Who would take advise from a person who kept on and on critizing one??
She would even walk into other peoples homes and rearrange the flowers in a vase--and believe me march in like a sergeant major.
As a result I will not interfere in any of my sons lives but now have a FDIL who's family want to drag me into arguments. I dont want to be a bone of contention in my sons relationships.
I will not get involved because of my own experiance.
So here you have someone who understands exactly where you are coming from.
Nevertheless sometimes there are DIL's who will make a devil of a MIL whether she interferes or not.
She will be jealous of anything that may seem a closeness in a mother son relationship so it seems we cant win.
I say there is no solution unless ofcourse the DIL and MIL happen to hit it off.
I have an idea that one of my FDIL and her mother are 2 dangerous women and I intend steering clear.
Ofcourse she can be close to her mother but her future husband belongs to her--How selfish but too bad.
So, I thinK the post is question looks more user-friendly now.
Quote from: Scoop on March 16, 2010, 11:13:31 AM
Leslie, another thing ... as a DIL, my first reaction to this letter WAS to get my back up.
BUT then I went to Members, selected CatchingUp, and selected to read all of her posts.
If you do that, you will see that she is not one of *those* MIL's and she is in fact dealing with one of *those* DIL's.
This is a different kind of message board - you just can't come storming in like that. I'm sorry you got off on the wrong foot, try and lurk for a bit and then do some research before posting next time.
I think this is the best advice for every DIL that comes here looking for advice!
Thank you, Isitme...I agree.
Leslie, we truly do value DIL points of view because we are trying hard to maintain a relationship with our DSs and DILs. Most of us are hurting; if you go into the 'way back machine you'll read some heartbreaking stories. I can't speak for all MILs, but I know my own experiences as both a DIL and a MIL give me a perspective DILs alone don't have. I learned from being a DIL not to hover, not to drop in, not to criticize. I've been a model MIL, almost too hands-off. However, my DIL is very critical. She and DS tell us when they're coming for visits. Holidays are dictated by DIL's desires. DS & DIL have not invited us to their house except to help them move. DIL has already told me that her parents are perfect and that our parenting was awful, so I'm guessing she's letting us know that we will not be involved as grandparents. DS has been very hurt and upset by her behavior, but we've reminded him that he needs to work it out with his wife since she comes first.
DIL's behavior has made me very sad - I've spent many times after a visit in tears over things she's said or done. Her family shuns us. We just aren't up to their standards, so we're treated like dirt. DH wants to see his son, and so do I, so we put on our smiles and put up with her rudeness. We miss our son, miss the great converstions we used to have, miss doing things with him. We put a lot of time and effort into raising him, giving him a good solid home life, extra-curricular activities, support, a college education, etc. To suddenly be "out" because DIL doesn't like us is heartbreaking.
So, Leslie, I hope you can see that not all MILs are monsters. I know they exist, I had one and so did my mother, but the women (and we did have one FIL as well) on this site are very dear. Give us a chance, and give us any loving feedback you have.
And surely from what you've read today, you know that we don't think all DILs are monsters, either. We changed out name from Mpther in Laws Unite to Wise Women Unite because so many DILs lovingly joined us.
I would also like to add, Leslie, come back...please...lets talk and share Your story...it sounds to me, like your hurting awful...and perhaps we can help you as so many people have helped me.
Leslie, we realize some DIL's come in here, hurt and angry, tainted by they're MIL's actions, and when they read it hits home, so please know, we understand.
My DIL and I had some awful troubles...it was painful and heart wrenching, I know I said some awful things about her, b/c I thought she hated me, was rejecting me, and was trying to estrange me from they're family...well guess what...she thought the same thing about me....she was hurting something awful over this to....but I couldn't see, refused to see, b/c in my mind, I was sure she hated me....we never discussed it....I never knew how she felt, or what I did to hurt her....things kept escalating....everytime we were together, we both walked on eggs shells fearing each other....however, after 12 years we've been able to reconcile...and we both wanted it...and I think most human beings only want to be liked...and some of this stuff starts because people take offense to things that are said, without intent to hurt or put people down....we will not side against you, but work with you....so think about it...b/c my goal is, to stay in this forum, and try and help as many people as I can, reach a point where they realize, it's not always as bad as we think it is...
I'm not saying every MIL or DIL can be reconciled with they're inlaws...but there is a whole lot of positive that comes out of discussing things...one is understanding and looking at things from the other person's perspective....What I found out, was, my DIL is not me...she wasn't raised like I was....however, I expected her to be just like my son...to have the same traditions, to immediately accept me and my quirky ways....I have a very dry sense of humor...so, she had no idea when I was kidding and when I wasn't....we didn't know each other.
As a MIL, I thought things would stay the same and she was going to be my daughter, however, we all have different beliefs and thoughts about things...and that is what we were dealing with, conflict of interests and personalities...
The start for me, was this forum....and taking ownership....so many of the ladies stories set off many thoughts and realizations about the why's and hows....it is a very slow process...however, due to all the amazing DIL's we have in this website, I was able to listen....I wanted to learn....wanted her, my DIL to like me, to give me a chance...I loved her so before they were married...and the estrangement was shocking...hurtful, and anger, girl....I was one angry human being....and we women can get so mean and vindictive when we're hurt, rejected and angry....
So, please know I do understand...and it would be so wonderful if you would come back and share....no one should hurt like this...and I consider this web site a counseling site...group counseling, which has surely saved my life.....
Hugs and love
Creme
It took me a while to reply to the post directed at me. I was hoping this site would be free of the MIL bashing. The threats of "you better watch yourself or your son and future grandchildren will be kept from you'. The nastiness of Leslie was what I wanted to avoid. Is no where safe?
My way of dealing with is this....If my son has so little regard for me and our relationship that he would allow someone to bully and threaten me....well.... I will not be blackmailed into being someone I am not. Withhold future grandchild at YOUR OWN peril. I have a DIL I am close to. I have a daughter I am close to. I have three grandchildren I see, two weekly and one daily. Your child will be the one to miss out.
My FDIL doesn't have to like me let alone love me. But she does have to treat me with courtesy and respect, as I will her. If you wouldn't say/do it to your mom, don't say/do it to me.
On a better note, my wonderful DIL(oldest son's wife) took FDIL to lunch to explain our family(in a nonthreatening way) and to help see I am not the enemy, but can be not a only a great MIL but a good friend. Someone you would want in your corner. DIL said she acted somewhat receptive....so we will see.
JKM - I just realized something else - wow, what a thought provoking post THIS turned out to be.
I guess it depends on the DIL's culture too - by which I mean how HER family is re: IL relations. I just now realized that my Dad's family was pretty dysfunctional, and we spent more time with my Mom's family growing up, so that is "normal" to me. So it was easy for me to look through that lens and see my IL's as dysfunctional and my family as 'normal'.
Hmmm, I have some thinking to do about this. But MAN, I would have loved to have a SIL to 'introduce me to the family'.
Thanks JKM - for blowing my mind! What a great board this is!
yes, this is a very thought provoking thread...
I know a lot of you must think I'm being very oh what's the word....
"contradictive?"...however....I remember saying many times, "I don't like who I've become since this issue with my DIL. Not only was I depressed, sad, but very angry most all of the time....
I remember coming back from my last visit, years ago, and my mother said to me, "I've never seen you like this before" and it was all b/c I thought my DIL hated me...and was doing things purposely to keep me out of they're lives...however, when I threw away the blame, and started sself examination...my whole attitude started to change. And Ladies, I was SO Wrong! So wrong!
No two people are ever alike, and when our son's tell us they are getting married, we expect our DIL's to instantly love us and take our actions as pure and caring...
It does definately depend on the DIL's culture....and as my DIL explained to me, she didn't grow up like my son grew up...so, can you imagine the culture shock there alone? I mean, remember when you were first married, how difficult it was to learn your husbands ways, and he your ways? Relationships are hard....all relationships....and all relationships are give and take....not to mention a whole lot of work in progress.
also, rejection is the most devaluating emotion....we all want to be liked, so when we Think someone is rejecting us, I believe that breeds hate in our souls, we become bitter and angry...."Like why doesn't this person like me"...and let me tell you, we women can be brutal....very vindictive, assuming, and mean spirited when we want to be. I know my son spoke of this...and he said, men can disagree, have a fist fight, then go out for a beer, but," he said..."women can be very unforgiving, they make things up in they're minds and blow things way out of porportion" which is very very true....
So, I believe if we truely want to make things work, both parties musst take a look at themselves...be honest...and realize, we must sometimes give a little more to get back ? I don't know, what works for me, isn't going to work for everyone else, for sure...I just wish so much we could all get along...I tell you this, when this was happening to me, I kept thinking "This is going to be a learning experience for me!" however, at the time I couldn't see it, b/c I was so angry, frustrated, hurt...I just kept saying, Why? Why? Well, I have learned so much...about myself...and a lot of it is not very flattering...I'm humbled, and feel very badly that I actually thought and believed those things about this woman who my son loves with his whole heart....so, I believe, it is very important not to be stubborn, and thry to listen to the other person...instead of becoming defensive....right away....
but when I assumed blame, honestly and sincerely, my whole attitude about this started to change, and for the first time I was able to say, "hmmmm, maybe I am wrong." I don't see it as giving up who I am, but much more, finding myself again....
Quote from: jkm426 on March 17, 2010, 06:02:50 AM
It took me a while to reply to the post directed at me. I was hoping this site would be free of the MIL bashing. The threats of "you better watch yourself or your son and future grandchildren will be kept from you'. The nastiness of Leslie was what I wanted to avoid. Is no where safe?
My way of dealing with is this....If my son has so little regard for me and our relationship that he would allow someone to bully and threaten me....well.... I will not be blackmailed into being someone I am not. Withhold future grandchild at YOUR OWN peril. I have a DIL I am close to. I have a daughter I am close to. I have three grandchildren I see, two weekly and one daily. Your child will be the one to miss out.
My FDIL doesn't have to like me let alone love me. But she does have to treat me with courtesy and respect, as I will her. If you wouldn't say/do it to your mom, don't say/do it to me.
On a better note, my wonderful DIL(oldest son's wife) took FDIL to lunch to explain our family(in a nonthreatening way) and to help see I am not the enemy, but can be not a only a great MIL but a good friend. Someone you would want in your corner. DIL said she acted somewhat receptive....so we will see.
I agree with you totally jmk...I use to think this place was safe too...but the nasty posters creep through. "You better watch yourself or your son and future grandchildren will be kept from you."....this seems to be the common dil threat. Lot's of us (me included) just go along to keep peace in the family. Sometimes this is the only solution.
I see that you are a very strong lady. Treat me with courtesy and respect and you'll get it from me....I soooo agree with you jmk.
Ladies, this place is as safe as you want it to be....you cannot keep people out...once in awhile, your going to have women come in here who have been rejected, treated badly, angry, etc. Something in this post really triggered hurt in Leslie's mind. I mean think about it...this is the greatest place on the internet I've ever been....and I've been to a lot of them...however, just b/c a woman comes in here and spouts off, are you really going to allow that one post to discourage you, or claim this isn't a safe place...they're just words ladies, words...and yes words can hurt, but can this woman come to your home and bodily harm you....
Please try to understand, your going to have this happen once in a while....so what? The girl is angry, and what in your mind causes anger? Hurt, right? Haven't you ever been hurt and then it turns into anger? And how many times have you said things in anger that you didn't mean, b/c you were hurt...?
Something in that letter triggered an emotion in Leslie, b/c I bet, she is having a very difficult time with her MIL, or, maybe she's a very unreasonable person....so, her one post is going to keep you from coming in here....? Or make a claim that now this isn't a safe place?
View it as what it is....an event...and not all events are going to be hunky dorey....sometimes, bad things happen...in everyday life....so is this a big event, or a tiny event...? To me it's a tiny event....and to the ladies who have left this forum due to bad posts...I feel very bad that you left, cuz you left them win, when maybe you had so much to learn, and so very much to give....be strong...be respectful and be mature, and don't allow a contradictive angry person to dictate your lives....don't be weak....be strong and respectful and view it as what it is...a very bad post....yes...however, don't allow it to change you or your attitude or contributions to this site...each one of you is a part of it...which makes it whole.
No, nothing, no matter where you go, gives you any full proof guarentees that you are going to be safe....not the park, not the super market, not crossing the street, not driving your car...anything can happen....
Please, don't allow someone's angry words to give up...or think this isn't a good forum....b/c if you do, your giving up....your allowing someone else to carve out your feelings about something that is working....are you going to allow someone else to dictate to you, that you can't have fun.
Ignore her post...until you can look at it as, hmmmm, the woman has a problem....she's either argumentative or angry...and, maybe if we're nice to her, we can help her to...wouldn't that be the best thing ever....
and yes, she was SO wrong in that statement, and I can understand how it hurts you...but she's one woman compared to how many wonderful women we have in here....please think about that, and when they do come in and spout off in anger and malace...ignore it...you don't know this person from adam, she is a complete stranger...don't allow a complete stranger to dictate your attitudes or break down your belief systems....
and by the way, if Leslie is a reasonable person, she will be back...if not, then no stone left unturned....
and I forgot to mention this in my last post....the letter to my DIL...my honest opinion, is this....if my DIL would send me a letter worded like that, I will tell you true...I would take the defense right away....
I wrote a letter similar to that in the very beginnning to my DIL...and she was so hurt and angry....do you wanna know why, cuz I was saying we play by my rules and my rules alone, and fi not, well, tough loss....that is not the way to adress people....
While I understand, the author, is very much like me...I used to think, it has to be my way, I'm not a bad person, I get along well with everyone but my DIL....so, if she wants a relationship with me, she is going to have to say she is sorry and respect me....well, what about her and her feelings....? While I might have 3 DIL's who I get along very well with, the new one coming in may be a very sensitive person, she may be insecure, and afraid....and getting a letter like that, would probably scare the living daylights out of me....
I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings or insult anyone here....but if we're going to sincerely work things out, we've got to look at both sides of the coin, b/c there are always two stories...and we are going to have to be humble at times and admit to our wrong doings as well. Nothing is one sided...and everyone has feelings...some, are so much more sensitive then others...
and we have to remember that...
and if any of you think me wrong, I will gladly leave, b/c more then me being a member here, I want to see this work, for everyone, and that is how important this site is to me....
we all have to work together, we may not always like what someone has to say....but that is sshy America is still the greatest country in the world to live in, cuz we're allowed to express feelings and practice our own beliefs...so until we understand, that no two people are ever going to think alike, we are always going to be at war with one another....and wars are what kills people....sometimes we've gotta humble ourselves and give more to get back....and that is very hard to do...but if you want something bad enough, you'll fight for it...and look at both sides...
Me, I wanna fight for happiness and peace...the unrest I'd been living for the past 12 years was sheer hell...I was depressed all the time, in pain all the time....so why wouldn't I choose to fix it? It was debilitating...as a lot of you women already know...so why not give a little? It's worth it....
Maybe I am not plan enough. I don't care if my FDIL likes me. She has said some pretty nasty things to me from "oh I thought your house would be cleaner, now I see where your son gets it" to " I sure hope you lose some weight before the wedding, the picture won't look good if you don't". Everything from how my children were raised to how much and how long I interact with my grandchildren(who are not hers) are ammunition. I finally said "I must not have done too bad of a job with son, after all you are going to marry him."
I have been a DIL and never in my wildest would I have talked to someones mother this way. What I do in my home and with my grandchildren(who are not your kids) is NONE OF YOUR BUSUNESS.
Peaceful coexistence is all I want. This isn't about winning or being right it about being respected and allowed to be different from FDIL.
I loved the responses to this. However I too am a person who can't be molded into a cookie cutter and do express my opinions when I feel there is a big enough reason sometimes to disagree, picking battles carefully I think is something we all learn as time progresses and by the time we get ready to die, we have it down just right. Ironical isn't it? My son-in-law was kind enough to keep the fact that his uncle is a pedophile a secret and told my daughter to do so also for two years, and then they got married without inviting me or giving me any info about the event. Why? Because they both know I am child abuse investigator for the state and would probably have blown a fuse so instead they planned the whole thing behind my back with my ex and his new girlfriend. When I called my son-in-law in tears about the wedding which I found on the internet, yeah thats right, saw my beautiful daughter on facebook in her wedding dress, my son-in-law wouldn't even talk to me, I got his voice mail like I get my daughters and ex-husbands voicemail. I always say that if your bad enough to committ the act you should be bad enough to face me too, but have never been granted that wish. Everyone that knows me say's their judgement day will be a very long ugly day but that doesn't stop my heart from breaking everyday a little more. I have not seen my daughter and do not know where she even lives, in almost 3 years. What to do?
Quote from: jkm426 on March 17, 2010, 09:15:22 AM
Maybe I am not plan enough. I don't care if my FDIL likes me. She has said some pretty nasty things to me from "oh I thought your house would be cleaner, now I see where your son gets it" to " I sure hope you lose some weight before the wedding, the picture won't look good if you don't". Everything from how my children were raised to how much and how long I interact with my grandchildren(who are not hers) are ammunition. I finally said "I must not have done too bad of a job with son, after all you are going to marry him."
I have been a DIL and never in my wildest would I have talked to someones mother this way. What I do in my home and with my grandchildren(who are not your kids) is NONE OF YOUR BUSUNESS.
Peaceful coexistence is all I want. This isn't about winning or being right it about being respected and allowed to be different from FDIL.
I hear you and understand your feelings, believe me...and your right, it's not about winning, b/c it's a now win situation...and I can surely understand your hurt and anger...and plea for peace and respect....that isn't an issue...
and you are allowed to be different..it's who we are as human beings.
Quote from: Silence on March 17, 2010, 10:20:10 AM
I loved the responses to this. However I too am a person who can't be molded into a cookie cutter and do express my opinions when I feel there is a big enough reason sometimes to disagree, picking battles carefully I think is something we all learn as time progresses and by the time we get ready to die, we have it down just right. Ironical isn't it? My son-in-law was kind enough to keep the fact that his uncle is a pedophile a secret and told my daughter to do so also for two years, and then they got married without inviting me or giving me any info about the event. Why? Because they both know I am child abuse investigator for the state and would probably have blown a fuse so instead they planned the whole thing behind my back with my ex and his new girlfriend. When I called my son-in-law in tears about the wedding which I found on the internet, yeah thats right, saw my beautiful daughter on facebook in her wedding dress, my son-in-law wouldn't even talk to me, I got his voice mail like I get my daughters and ex-husbands voicemail. I always say that if your bad enough to committ the act you should be bad enough to face me too, but have never been granted that wish. Everyone that knows me say's their judgement day will be a very long ugly day but that doesn't stop my heart from breaking everyday a little more. I have not seen my daughter and do not know where she even lives, in almost 3 years. What to do?
and you have every right to feel the way you do, and I'm very sorry your dealing with this...
what people will do all in the name of love is beyond me....however, I do feel, that your daughter, will return to you someday....
the sad part about this is....what if they have children? What will they do concerning them?
I know what you mean Ceme, my thoughts about my future grandchildren scare me to death. I asked my daughter about that when I found out she was engaged to her current husband. I asked her what kind of safety plan she had in mind. In her most sarcastic tone she said "Well what would like me to do, carry around pepper spray"? She has not seen the children I have seen who have experienced sexual abuse first hand, my fear for her children is very real. And so I did what is apparently the unforgivable thing, I told her current husband that if anything happened to one of my grandchildren that he would not have to worry about a prison sentence. After that statement I was alienated with a short break of about 3 months when my daughter spoke to me on the phone only once a week on Sundays at exactly 9-9:20 PM which she found an excuse to discontine doing also. Since that time I have looked up the current husband's family in my database at work and holy smokes, there are methamphetamine addicts and low and behold there was the original interview with the pedophile uncle's victim. In the victims own words "He said I was going to be his second special girl, that his daughter was his first special girl". My boss asked me why I was slamming my drawers and sent me out to the field that day. It is a good thing I had no sexual abuse cases pop up on my workload....:) I have nightmares about future grandchildren. I am vigilant in checking my database for anything regarding my daughter on a very regular basis...:)
Silence...I cannot believe your daughter speaks to you like that???? I feel really bad for you...
When we were older, and when I say we...my cousin's and I were abused by they're father...we all made a pact, that we would never ever leave our children with them...to this day, my one cousin will not speak to her parents...they're mother said we all lied...and I can understand her denial and hurt...but to jeprodize her own children and her sisters's child? We can't all be lying...anyway, one of the girl left her daughter with them and we were horrified and shocked...I guess she needed a baby sitter more then caring about the child.
With your expertise, I know you know what I'm going to say, however, I also know, when your so emotionally involved in a situation, we don't always see things, we harbor hope, shock, hurt, anger, disappointment and depression...and I wish none of us would have to experience that ever...we shouldn't have to, we put in our time, now life is supposed to be good, right?
Hun...go with it, and try as hard as you can to detach and fill your life with other thoughts....other plans and other dreams....you just have to allow it to play out and trust your spiritual guidence and good sense....I know it is very difficult at times...these are our kids....however....try to realize, she is a grown adult and you did the best you absolutely could do...and please don't ever blame yourself...your daughter knows what manners and respect are....that being said...please know this is a haven for you to come and pour your heart out if need be...everyone will help you along...
and know you are loved by many women here....
sometimes we dno't get to choose the things that happen to us in our lives, and in the bad, there must be lessons for us to learn...there must...
hugs and love
creme
Creme, I truly believe a supreme power led me to this site today and I am so comforted in this thought and wonderful replies I have received. At the end of the day it all comes down to learning, somehow I am supposed to learn something through all this and I am waiting for that supreme power to shed light on that path. Maybe this was supposed to happen this way. Somehow I can't help but wonder why God would put this kind of dilemma in my life knowing my profession, or maybe that is why this is happening. But it truly does make a person wonder if my daughter isn't expressing some kind of anger toward me by possibly subjecting her own children to this kind of family. Truth is, I would treat her no differently than any other client I have if one of my grandchildren got molested, I would still remove the child, even from my own child, it's about keeping children safe. I am so very sorry to hear these things happened to you as a child, if I could reach in the computer and give you a big hug I would do so. And now here you are the survivor, helping out a poor old CPS worker, this is a real live moment the angels must be talking about, or created...:) We will speak more I am sure.
Silence, I am so so glad your here....and I think for what your enduring, you have not only a very healthy attitude, but your words show strength, and understanding....
Yes, your daughter is angry, very angry, however, there is more then one reason why people do things, actually many reasons, and until she seeks out help....one will never know, and perhaps she doesn't even know why...
anger makes us make very bad choices and think very bad things...however....your job is over...and this is what I kept telling myself over and over...my job is over, did I make mistakes, yes indeed, we all make mistakes...however, we do the best we can at the time, physically and mentally, remember we grow up with our kids...and that in itself is miraculous...your a good person....very understanding and astute, and if you remember one thing...remember that....also, you wouldn't be in the career your in, if in fact you were not aware...and you are....
I have a neighbor...who had 4 kids...they're all wonderful, except one hates her mother, and is mean to her...yanno why she is that way...she was the oldest and she says, it was wrong of her mother to make her clean her room and help around the house....the mother told me, that all her kids had chores, regardless of they're age...she and her hubby both worked full time jobs...and it's a shame cuz this older daughter is so missing out....
so go figure...? I have another friend...who had four kids, one they adopted, they all turned out fine, except one...why? And he was indeed they're biggest worry...
His father asked me once, how can you raise all your kids the same, and one really turns out bad...with real serious problems...it used to kill them, they were very active in the church, loved and respected, I used to call her my angel....
So, go figure...?
Just know that we support you and care....
Love
Creme
jkm
I wanted to say, that I hope your not offended by my opinion on your letter...I do very much understand where your coming from....You are a very strong and mature woman who is also independent and you don't need to be a member of the group to feel whole...
I was simply trying to point out how confidence, scares people....and I do know, that when I wrote a letter to that effect a long time ago, it hurt and offended feelings...
What ever you do is your choice and believe me, it has to be that way to continue your path...your journey...so, I hope you don't hold it against me...please know, I do care, and wish everyone who comes thru these doors peace and good will...
Creme
No creme....not offended at all. I don't offend easily. I guess I thought I wasn't making my point clear or maybe not conveying my situation correctly.
I LOVE this site has various opinions and perspectives from. What a boring world it would be if we all thought the same.
It took me a long time to find my voice and be comfortable in my own skin. I zealously guard that, perhaps too much at times..
People treat you how you allow them too. I stopped allowing anyone to treat me badly because I wanted them to like me or to keep the peace. I have NEVER been happier than when I can be me.
Quote from: jkm426 on March 17, 2010, 03:27:19 PM
No creme....not offended at all. I don't offend easily. I guess I thought I wasn't making my point clear or maybe not conveying my situation correctly.
I LOVE this site has various opinions and perspectives from. What a boring world it would be if we all thought the same.
It took me a long time to find my voice and be comfortable in my own skin. I zealously guard that, perhaps too much at times..
People treat you how you allow them too. I stopped allowing anyone to treat me badly because I wanted them to like me or to keep the peace. I have NEVER been happier than when I can be me.
Whew, I'm so so glad, thank you...
I do understand every word you say...and know how you feel....and yes, it's so much nicer when you don't have to compromise your identity...I think that is why I will never ever marry again, and it would be so much easier financiallyy if I did..however, I never again, want to live someone else's idea of what my life should be...and when I love, I love hard, so, it's best I just stay away...I know I may be wrong, to be afraid of trusting my heart with someone again, but the last loss put me in a place I never want to be again....
Plus I love my independence...I couldn't stand being smothered...or being a mother to another man....I would need someone very special, who is mature and very independent, and at my age...they're are many widowers looking for a wife, someone to take care of them, and I need someone diverse in knowledge andexperience, cuz I love the arts, travel and talking to people who are intellectually driven....guess you've noticed, I have a hunger for learning...LOL
Thanks to you so much...
Hugs
Creme
Ah creme... the nurse or a purse syndrome...LOL
I NEVER want to marry again either. I have gotten very selfish in my middle years(50 in 6 weeks). I don't want to care/worry about someone else's happiness/their life/children. I want to go when I want, spend(not that there is much to spend)what I want. Not make the bed, eat popcorn for supper or watch the NFL network for 10 straight hours on a rainy Saturday.
Hugs to you too.......Jan
Never marry again! I said that and meant it! Retired on a shoestring ($5.50 a month) at 60 and off I went in a small, used motor home...towing an even smaller pick-up behind it.
A friend wanted to introduce me to a "nice guy" recently widowed...(to be a pen-pal) and I said no...I wasn't taking any chances. No-none-of-that-for-me! Didn't ever, ever want to negotiate my life with another person again! No way!
But she kept pressing. And at the time she was trying get him to agree to meet me and he was saying that he just wanted to be left alone and he knew lots of widows...and please, "just some space here." You know the rest, of course...we both said yes at the same time just to shut her up...had five lunches together and got marrried!!! That was 20 years ago!
The first thing he did was buy me a nice, new motor home...based on my promise that if I would do all the driving (he was 78)...setting up and breaking camp...and he would get all the meals and do all of the dog walking. Fair enough! And for six years, we were just a couple of bums off and on! :-) Never say never! But glad I was wrong.
Luise,I just love this story!!!
And i have always heard,....."you just know when it's right".......I'm sure thats how you felt!!!
;D ;D After we had the five lunches (over a three month period because I was on the road,) my ex-DIL took me to Hawaii to celebrate my 62nd birthday. While we were there, he called and asked me if I liked dating and I said no!!! >:( He said he didn't either...so why not get married and get acquainted later? ;D ;D
We got our license the day I got back and married after right after the three day waiting period!! :o 8)
The thought of losing any one of my children or my dh is beyond unbearable. When I was 17 my brother was murdered and I don't know how my parents survived. I don't think they ever fully recovered. At the time I thought I was going through just as much as his sister, but once I was a parent, I realized that as a parent it would be even worse for me.
I can relate to the woman Creme referred to who didn't think she could consider another man in her life after losing her husband - I feel that way about my husband. No one else could compare. He is such a blessing to me.
As far as the unsent letter to future dil - well written, but she is wise not to send it. My sister sent a similar type letter, toned down a bit, to her dil and it was a big mistake. It caused a lot of hard feelings and I don't recommend it.
jkm - I just love your humor!!!!!!
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Hope, I'm very very sorry to read about your brother....I can't imagine it either...very difficult...and one must have a whole lot of faith to survive that...but people do...and the one thing which probably drives them on is that they know they're child wouldn't want them to suffer....and we'd feel the same way for our children, if we'd pass away....
Hugs to you
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Creme,
I just saw your post - I'm behind the times again. Thanks for your caring words about the loss of my brother. I will always have a special love for him, but time does heal (he's been gone since 1972).
Hugs, Hope
Quote from: luise.volta on March 17, 2010, 06:52:25 PM
;D ;D After we had the five lunches (over a three month period because I was on the road,) my ex-DIL took me to Hawaii to celebrate my 62nd birthday. While we were there, he called and asked me if I liked dating and I said no!!! >:( He said he didn't either...so why not get married and get acquainted later? ;D ;D
We got our license the day I got back and married after right after the three day waiting period!! :o 8)
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww. That's true love. :) I'm so happy for you both.
Quote from: luise.volta on March 17, 2010, 06:15:15 PM
Never marry again! I said that and meant it! Retired on a shoestring ($5.50 a month) at 60 and off I went in a small, used motor home...towing an even smaller pick-up behind it.
A friend wanted to introduce me to a "nice guy" recently widowed...(to be a pen-pal) and I said no...I wasn't taking any chances. No-none-of-that-for-me! Didn't ever, ever want to negotiate my life with another person again! No way!
But she kept pressing. And at the time she was trying get him to agree to meet me and he was saying that he just wanted to be left alone and he knew lots of widows...and please, "just some space here." You know the rest, of course...we both said yes at the same time just to shut her up...had five lunches together and got marrried!!! That was 20 years ago!
The first thing he did was buy me a nice, new motor home...based on my promise that if I would do all the driving (he was 78)...setting up and breaking camp...and he would get all the meals and do all of the dog walking. Fair enough! And for six years, we were just a couple of bums off and on! :-) Never say never! But glad I was wrong.
well my dear, you found a keeper...he cares and shares...and it sounds like your both so compatible...
me, I'm not looking, quit dating about 8 or 9 years ago. Luise, I'm so glad you and hubby met, its great to have a good man....I never have, therefore, I don't know what I'm missing, and I'm to set in my ways now....it sounds like JKM and I are a lot a like....
JKM High fivin ya girl.....LOL
Luise, that's so interesting! I have thought about selling everything and buying a travel trailer, so I could just go where I wanted to! I still think about doing that, but not until the kids are all gone! LOL! They still seem to need me around, and I never realized it before, but my son is real attached! I knew he was before marriage, but now he's saying he is not going back into his marriage (many reasons), and has started talking about buying a house together. I'm thinking, but not real sure that's a good idea. How was it? Was it an adventure traveling?
Yes, Coco - being a full time Woman-RVer was great. You can read about some of my adventures and learnings on www.MomResponds.com under my two RV categories. It was a wonderful time in my life! I learned about camping clubs, what they have to offer and how different they can be. I met some great people, men and women! Lots of nice retired couples. I scared my sons to death but what the heck...they scared me to death on many occasions! ;D