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Problem Solving => Grandchildren => Topic started by: Prissy on July 19, 2009, 07:36:43 pm

Title: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: Prissy on July 19, 2009, 07:36:43 pm
Ann Lander's was an advice columnist and in one of her columns she asked, "if you had it to do over again, would you have children?"

A resounding 70% said, "no".  10,000 responded and the reasons varied but many were due to the total neglect that these now grown children exhibited to their parents.

This was done in the 70's so I wonder if the answer would be the different today? 
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: luise.volta on July 19, 2009, 08:14:43 pm
No. I would make the mistake of thinking first. I'd think about the overall cost and I'd think of the health risks and I'd think of my lack of knowledge and skills and I'd miss the most fulfilling and developmental experience of my life. (And in my old age, I would miss my son being my best friend.)
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: Alicev on July 20, 2009, 07:13:15 am
I don't know. I probably do not fall into the correct target group. But I do have a 14 months old daughter and based on her so far I would say yes, I would do it all over again. In fact I want another one already!  :)
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: luise.volta on July 20, 2009, 08:07:08 am
That is so lovely, Alice. And one of the most valuable things this site is that it brings us is multiple target groups, don't you think? Lets see..when was it that I was cuddling my first 14 month-old? Oh, my! 60 years ago! (And I was expecting #2 at that time.  :D)
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: Invisible on November 10, 2009, 08:49:29 am
My only child died ....so I would would have to say yes. The only thing I would change is I would have had more than one child. I was so caught up in trying to be everything to everyone and live up to impossible expectations, I only had one child. My mistake. Now, I have only my memories.
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: Pen on November 10, 2009, 10:18:35 am
I'm so sorry, Invisible. I hope you can find some comfort here.

A couple of years ago I was shocked to hear DH admit that, no, he wouldn't do it again. He loves our children more than he can bear sometimes, so when they're struggling, in pain, or literally fighting for their lives he is devastated. As the man, he feels he must remain strong and resilient for the rest of us, so he hides it well. At that time, even though we'd been through a lot, I definitely answered "yes, I'd do it again." A few days ago, coincidentally since I'd not seen this thread, I thought about our talk and realized that I wouldn't be so quick to jump in again. Right now parenthood just feels like a lot of pain. I'm hoping I'll feel differently when things settle down.
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: AnnieB on November 10, 2009, 10:34:25 am
Could I choose to have daughters too? ;D

I would not want to give up what I have had with my sons, even if there is pain with one of them now and even if there may be pain with them ahead.   
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: mom2 on November 10, 2009, 02:11:26 pm
I would probably say Yes  but would have hoped for a girl.
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 11, 2009, 12:04:15 pm
If I could have seen into the future and would have known the heartbreak ahead I would have done 2 things differently.

I'd not have gotten son back with my DIL after he broke up with her.

I'd have not sent sons to the University I did. 

If I could change those things, I'd have kids again but if not, I wouldn't.

As I said, we had SO MUCH FUN AND LOve here but my pain is so great now, it wasn't worth it.   The damage a Daughter in law can do is so bad you just want to die sometimes. 

The men never do that to her Mother.  The abusive ones do but not the other kind. 
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 11, 2009, 06:13:15 pm
I had a desperate need to belong, have a family.  I think that is what has destroyed me...my husband is a good man but doesn't want to talk anymore about the situation that is killing me.

I don't know why some men are that way. I wonder if all men are like that.  He just won't discuss it anymore.  I'm left alone with this board. 

Why did she do this to me? 
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 12, 2009, 06:13:17 am
These young women cannot think like we do...they just can't.  They are either too young or they are spoiled brats who don't want to see.

There's no sense in ascribing human tendencies to them.  They aren't human. 
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 12, 2009, 01:24:45 pm
Honestly, Anna, I know you keep the kids so you can be with them but with her treating you like that, it's difficult to enjoy it, I'm sure.

It's good that your son has the courage to stand up for you.  I'm so happy for you.  You know that you're being used but I think when you tell yourself that you're getting something back, the love of your grandkids, that makes it okay.

I wonder how this marriage will be in the future. No one wants to live with a tyrant, do they?  I guess if he stays with her, he does.  Oh boy....it's difficult not to know that the world has changed into "not a kinder and gentler generation". 
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 13, 2009, 07:34:43 am
In the past, I was on MIL hate sites trying to find comfort.  I used the name Prissy.  They treated me like dirt and banned me from each one.  They can be vicious.  I thought for sure I'd be safe here. 

One of them, who unfortunately has my email, emailed me about 3 weeks ago.  I didn't answer her. 

If you look at one of the responses to me, it is addressed To: Chickie Prissy.  They seem to find me wherever I go.  They will say that I'm paranoid now.  It's the same 'ol thing, second and 15th verse.

Please be aware that I don't know what will be coming next.   
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 13, 2009, 07:49:44 am
Anna,
Thank you....I don't want to bother Luise, she has enough on her hands.  I just wanted all of you to know in case they bring up some of my past emails to the hate sites I visited, what is happening. 

This is something they have done in the past so I have no way of knowing if it will be done now.  Ladies, I am a totally sane, just a very sad Mother but I'm not a mental case yet, though I could be later.  I can't vouch for anything anymore.  :)
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: AnnieB on November 13, 2009, 08:02:01 am
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on November 13, 2009, 07:34:43 am
If you look at one of the responses to me, it is addressed To: Chickie Prissy.  They seem to find me wherever I go.  They will say that I'm paranoid now.  It's the same 'ol thing, second and 15th verse.


Chickie Prissy -- If I might point this out, before a war gets started against one of our regular DIL's who posts here, you revealed that you are both Prissy and Chicky on an earlier post --http://www.wisewomenunite.com/index.php/topic,124.msg1830.html#msg1830 (http://www.wisewomenunite.com/index.php/topic,124.msg1830.html#msg1830)-- and therefore references have been made to you as both because you revealed it on that link.   

I don't see any attack starting here coming from outside forces.
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 13, 2009, 08:06:43 am
There doesn't need to be a war, AnnieB.  I know I pointed it out.

Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: just2baccepted on November 13, 2009, 08:23:21 am
I noticed the post as well with the name Chickie Prissy and its no secret that it is from Sassy.  And I think everyone can agree that Sassy is not trying to cause  trouble for anyone, she's just looking for support like everyone is.
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: AnnieB on November 13, 2009, 08:36:04 am
Quote from: just2baccepted on November 13, 2009, 08:23:21 am
I noticed the post as well with the name Chickie Prissy and its no secret that it is from Sassy.  And I think everyone can agree that Sassy is not trying to cause  trouble for anyone, she's just looking for support like everyone is.


*nods in agreement
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 13, 2009, 12:13:31 pm
Do not feel bad for me Anna...but thank you so much.  You are precious.   I was locked out of the site for the time period that I've been gone.

Thank you, Kirk and Luise for getting me back up!  What a nightmare for you, Kirk.
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 13, 2009, 12:15:53 pm
and Kirk...you must be a genius too!! This was a toughie.
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 13, 2009, 02:07:42 pm
I guess that might be at the bottom of all this, Anna.  Sensitive soul....I wonder why this is?  I've seen people who really don't care about anything but themselves and I would love to be like that! 

It would make my life so much easier.  It's ridiculous and I know it is to carry around all this hurt.  Somehow I can't bring myself to dismiss my son from my life.  As time goes by though, I think my heart hardens just a little bit more to it. 

Sure does make Holidays frightening for me!  I get too hurt by the slightest things.  I need to get a grip, don't I? 

I went to that crazy counselor again yesterday.  What is going on here?  Am I trying to really get myself into more trouble?  What a guy, this guy.

He said, "forget them! You're a Lotus.  You know what a Lotus is?"

"okay, I give, what is it?"  (I know it's a flower)

"You're a Lotus growing in muck and you're here to give out love to all the other people around you in spite of growing in muck"!

Earth to me:  What does that mean?  Thanks a whole lot, Dr.  This is what I'm supposed to get from this session? 

I looked around his room and uh huh, you guessed it,  Tony Robbins tapes sitting on his shelf.   He must have listened to one of them because this is good advice but I don't know how this is going to help me.

He told me to let them go, move on....go to others.  Grow in muck and bloom.

Good Lord!   :-\

Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: AnnieB on November 14, 2009, 07:41:00 am
There is a difference between cutting someone out of your life and not reacting to them in a way that ruins your life.

The lotus in the muck hasn't cut anyone out of its life.  It is still beautiful, blossoming and rising above the muck it grew out of.

It is a great symbol for those of us who grew out of dysfunctional families and/or find ourselves surrounded by such.  A reminder in a way not to allow ourselves to feel dragged down and ruined now that we are adults, if we feel abused and mistreated by others in our lives.  Not to allow ourselves to fall back into the familiar role of being victimized.   

Not easy to do.  But I am not going to give someone else (even my own children) the power to ruin my life.   There is more to life than that.  We have to find the ways not to give it over ... friends, prayer,  communicating, turning it over to a Higher Power, forgiveness, love, support....

The Lotus Flower is a nice reminder not to be victimized by the mucky treatment.   



Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: Pen on November 14, 2009, 09:04:29 am
Good morning, fellow travellers - that was beautiful, AnnieB. I'm going to find a picture of a lotus and put in a prominent place. I like your interpretation better than the one from Chickie's guy (no offense, dear Chickie.) I'm not a fan of the cutting unless there's a life-saving reason(gangrene?)

I woke up thinking about us all and our situations. Last night DH & I were snubbed again, but had a great time at the event anyway! But on the way home I mentioned to DH that I was in a quandry about the holidays because of all the snubbing from DIL & her family. He got frustrated over my inability to move on and I ended up feeling unsupported and needy. Yuck. Anyway, it occurred to me this morning that part of my sadness is due to the fact that this is the one thing in my DS's life that we cannot fix.

We fed, clothed and supported him while he was turning into the extraordinary man he is today. When he had a problem we could take care of it or be supportive while he worked through it. Now we're (in DIL & family's eyes) unmotivated, mean, lazy, stupid, uneducated, losers from the sticks (we really aren't, but that's what she's said.)

To fix this so our DS would be in less pain, we would need to become completely different people, and that's where we have to draw the line. It isn't possible. For the first time in his life, we can't fix something. We can't even be supportive in any real way since we can't see him. I'm kind of in shock from this realization.

Lotus, lotus...
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 14, 2009, 09:32:37 am
I think all you said is so true, AnnieB.....it's just hard trying to be a Lotus, growing in muck when you have a DIL who glares at you while you're talking.   I forget I'm a flower  ;D

I have to ignore her and believe me, it's hard. She can reduce me to tears with her glares.   But, I do have a lot to be grateful for....



Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: luise.volta on November 14, 2009, 04:14:25 pm
Hi Dear Friends: My maiden name was Louise Otis and so when I signed things L. Otis, I was getting pretty close!  ;D

In reading this I agree that we can focus on the muck or the sun...we are between the two. And to take the analogy further...what's in the muck? I mean, yes, it's sticky and it smells terrible but it nourishes us. So, when we have these heartbreaking upheavals (yucky rhymes with mucky) we learn, we grow spiritually, we expand...even if we do it kicking and screaming and have the scars to prove that it's no walk in the park. We get to know ourselves better when we are called on to make choices, step up to the plate, let go...whatever. We are more for it, not less.

Loving you all, Luise
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 15, 2009, 06:24:46 am
Hi Louise Otis,
We know you even when your name is not the same!!  We miss you terribly.

I hate to give this counselor any credit at all because he is not the best but when you're hurting, it's so hard not to find someone who is in authority.

In this instance, though, I have to admit he was right about the Lotus and you're right about it too...Lotis.  I have to think about it coming from you and not from him so I can take it in!  :)
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 16, 2009, 04:51:13 am
I wish I knew if it would get better, Anna.  I know we need to stick together on this site.  It's all we have.   

Penstamen, I can see my DIL in at least two of these things about Bi-Polar.  I can also see myself a little since she came into my life.  No eating disorder in me but a real feeling of discouragement.  Whether it's real or imagined.

I can see myself reacting too much even in the sense that I am hurt for her when close DIL treats her the way she does.  Can't I take a side, for Heaven sake????  It makes me wonder why close DIL treats her this way!  It makes me wonder who's crazy here?   
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: Invisible on December 21, 2009, 08:05:47 am
2chickiebaby (you little flower)

I know the situation is not funny... but thanks for the laugh. Your sense of humor is wonderful. I too wish I could let the situation go....move out of the country and bloom. I just don't think that is possible
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 21, 2009, 08:10:56 am
Thinking of you, too, Invisible....one of my friends said, "You cannot, not be funny. It's in your DNA"

DIL does not like my humor.  Isn't that perfect?  Just perfect.

Sometimes I want to go to their house and break into song.  Sing something real dramatic and loud. ;D   I can see her face just thinking about it. 
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: SunnyDays09 on December 21, 2009, 11:24:02 am
Quote from: AnnieB on November 14, 2009, 07:41:00 am
There is a difference between cutting someone out of your life and not reacting to them in a way that ruins your life.

The lotus in the muck hasn't cut anyone out of its life.  It is still beautiful, blossoming and rising above the muck it grew out of.

It is a great symbol for those of us who grew out of dysfunctional families and/or find ourselves surrounded by such.  A reminder in a way not to allow ourselves to feel dragged down and ruined now that we are adults, if we feel abused and mistreated by others in our lives.  Not to allow ourselves to fall back into the familiar role of being victimized.   

Not easy to do.  But I am not going to give someone else (even my own children) the power to ruin my life.   There is more to life than that.  We have to find the ways not to give it over ... friends, prayer,  communicating, turning it over to a Higher Power, forgiveness, love, support....

The Lotus Flower is a nice reminder not to be victimized by the mucky treatment.


we iz twinz.
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: cremebrulee on December 21, 2009, 12:35:36 pm
I've read through these posts, they are all wonderful posts..thank you for sharing...

Yes indeed, I wouldn't have missed it for the world...I lost 3 other children...could not carry, and almost lost my son, therefore, yes indeed, I've have had more children if I could.  Children, to me, are the gift of life, and the gift to procreate is one of the most faniminal experiences...I don't even remember any pain, just the awe of it...a true miracle and gift.

Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: Invisible on December 21, 2009, 01:25:37 pm
Isn't the lotus flower supposed to represent "new beginning"?
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: cremebrulee on December 21, 2009, 05:52:55 pm
Quote from: Invisible on December 21, 2009, 01:25:37 pm
Isn't the lotus flower supposed to represent "new beginning"?


Geeze, I dunno?  Think maybe if I buy a bunch, I might have another child? LOL
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: greeneyes100 on December 28, 2009, 07:21:57 pm
If I knew what I knew today my children would have had a different father,they would have been raised differently and would have married different partners.
In answer to would I have children if I could do it over again    YES    only if I could have done it differently.   NO    if I was still the same it would be the same out come
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: greeneyes100 on December 28, 2009, 07:27:19 pm
Thanks Annie b
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: cocobars on January 05, 2010, 08:24:47 am
I also believe they are different than we were at their ages.  It is me, or do they all seem more immature and selfish?  I do not remember ever having problems with my MIL!  I don't remember being selfish, but I must have been to some extent.   I had too much respect for my husband's mother, and I believe she did for me too!  I still remember her telling me what a good mother I was.  I wish she were still here!  I would bet she would have some really good advice for all of us.  I miss her so much- she was my best friend and introduced me to her son, then encouraged him to ask me out...  Oh well.  Nuther 10 years
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: Pen on January 06, 2010, 08:57:30 pm
A lot of people talk about the sense of entitlement young people have today. Kids can be so cruel and snobby, that even "normal" kids get caught up in the need to own expensive stuff so they won't be teased by their peers. It takes parents who are willing to be reasonable and firm about expenses to combat it, and it would be nice if the media didn't glorify rich brats instead of young people who were doing good things for their communities!

When I was in school, a normal kid in a very wealthy district, it was difficult to be teased by the brats. Luckily for me, during the "granola era" it wasn't as cool to be a conspicuous consumer. It was cooler to look raggedy and want to join the Peace Corps. Boy, that sure changed in the last couple of decades!
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: 2chickiebaby on January 06, 2010, 09:03:34 pm
So right...Pen...I don't know what will happen to our one son's kids....so wealthy, privileged. They have all and more than other kids.  They are precious, though. Extremely polite and great kids.  I don't know what they will do if they ever have a problem, though.

The other son and DIL raise theirs very simply, making them save for what they want.  They are happy.  All of them are happy but the ones raised the simplest are happier, I think.
Title: Re: Ann Lander's Survey, Would you have children if you could do it over again?
Post by: girlsmom on February 15, 2010, 08:08:07 pm
Ditto Green Eyes~no if it is same hubby same situation~yes if I could change my poor choice for a hubby and do things in a better order~college completed first then hubby then kids when I had grown up a bit. not hubby at age 18,kids at age 19, then college.

I would like some words of wisdom if someone has been through this. I was very close with my older grandson when my daughter left. I told him as he was walking out the door, he was 7, that if I didn't see him it was not because I didn't want to but that I wanted to very much, how much I loved him and to promise me to come and see me when he grew up, I knew it would be the last time I would be able to talk to him for a very long time. I took him to every place I could in that 7 years knowing that someday my daughter would leave, when the money tree dried up. We had so much fun together. My daughter and SIL were so mean to him he was afraid of his own shadow. I was able to get him to do things he was afraid of. I taught him to swim and took him on an open cockpit airplane ride in a restored ww2 plane. He had so much fun. we had great times. Anyways, do you think he will come back and see me? I miss him so much. He will be 13 this year. It has been 5 years since I have seen him. My daughter did let me know when he had an accident so I sent him some ice cream coupons and a get well card. But I doubt she gave him the card and just said the coupons were from her. She did slip in an email once that she didn't want him to see us because he missed us and she didn't want to disappoint him in not being able to see us again.(this when daughter no.2 graduated from college) We have a family tradition that I get my kids new Christmas ornaments each year of a favorite movie or activity or vacation spot or all of them. I started the boys the same thing and when my daughter moved out she forget them so I still buy their ornament every year so when they hopefully come back I will have something to give them so they know I was always thinking of them. I have some other stuff she forgot too. She was more interested in her stuff than theirs. Like they would not have bronzed baby shoes if it wasn't for me.
Thanks for all your thoughts.