WiseWomenUnite.com

Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: 2chickiebaby on February 13, 2010, 03:07:12 pm

Title: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 13, 2010, 03:07:12 pm
Recognize anyone??

Notice if your plans are continually overturned in favor of his/Her's. Instead, you're always changing plans to do what he/she wants, always meeting up with his/her friends.

Be aware of the way he/she behaves with your family and friends, especially if he/she interrupts them, contradicts them, or behaves dismissively. If you feel you need to apologize or explain for his/her's behavior to your family or friends, there's a problem there.

Are you realizing it's just become easier not to spend time with people you've loved for years, rather than to make apologies or excuses. #* Have all of your past attachments to people and places been replaced by either old friends of your new love, or new friends you've made since you've been together? Severing your ties to the familiar stability of people you have always known means he has just made himself the center of your universe, and now has no competition for your attention.

Watch out for subtle discrepancies. When talking with mutual friends, have they ever said something about your new girlfriend that made you stop and say, "Huh? But he said something different to me... You can't have understood that right." Did you then dismiss the idea that what your friends heard could have actually been true? That's a big red flag.

When you're being controlled or manipulated, it's usually through half-truths or omissions, not outright lies. There's just enough weirdness to make you stop and think, but not quite enough to get you to re-evaluate the entire relationship. If this happens more than once, STOP and remind yourself that this isn't the first time you've had this reaction. Start analyzing discrepancies between what he said, and what your friends say.

If there are a lot of them, call her out on them. If her reaction or answers don't satisfy, it is time to re-evaluate in a major way. And don't waste time doing the analysis - it may save you from disaster later.

Cutting you off from your support systems helps him gain dominance over you - and you think it's your decision. A controlling partner will treat your friends with disrespect - your friends will report rude remarks made behind your back, or you will actually see him treat them in a dismissive or outright rude way. However, when you're alone with him, he never says a bad word about those friends, but rather is kind, loving, and complimentary to you about them.

It makes you believe your family or friends are simply jealous, don't understand him, etc. You forget his nastiness to their faces because he's nice behind their backs. When you find yourself telling your mom or sister, "But, you have to understand him like I do," that's a bad sign. Why should everyone else understand him and adjust their behavior - wouldn't it be easier if he would adjust his? It's much easier to for him control you when you've decided your loved ones just don't understand your mate, and soon, you have no one but him to turn to.



Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 13, 2010, 03:14:20 pm
That kind of thing can so insidious and can get a hold of us before we begin to see the dynamics. Then it is so hard to address. Thanks for sharing it!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 13, 2010, 03:37:47 pm
Alot of our sons and daughters are going through this right now.  Did the article give suggestions on some healthy ways to address people we know who might be in a controlling relationship?  Is there a tactful was of talking to someone about this?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 13, 2010, 03:51:42 pm
I didn't find one that would show us how to deal with them. I will keep looking.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 13, 2010, 04:10:42 pm
Well, one thing...if it was someone near and dear that trusted us, we could offer a copy of the article. Just being aware of what was happening would offer some choices, hopefully before it was too late. Once the brain-washing is in place, all bets are off.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 13, 2010, 04:12:07 pm
Maybe they didn't have something on how to deal with it.  The article itself is very informative and helps us with some of the questions surrounding controlling people.  Every little thing is valuable. 

Thanks for posting this! ;D
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 13, 2010, 04:15:16 pm
I was married at 20 to a guy i had known since I was three years old. When I left at age 40 and people asked me what I liked and didn't like, I told them his preferences because I didn't have any of my own
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 13, 2010, 04:16:03 pm
If I showed mine the article, it would ensure that I never saw the GC again.  He dutifully would tell her.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 13, 2010, 04:18:43 pm
What courage it must have taken for you to leave that relationship at 40!!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 13, 2010, 04:22:00 pm
That's true about all bets being off once the brainwashing takes place.  I know (just from my own experience) that sometimes the begining stages are really hard to recognise, unless you are a friend or family member.  When I moved back up here, my family members started telling me stories about my husband.  I was really upset that they didn't warn me before I moved out of state.  They just said that they didn't think I would listen because they could see how much I loved him.  They may be right, but during the early stages, it would have been nice if someone handed me something like that and talked to me in private.  It (I believe) would have given me some homework (or at least an awareness of that "red flag").  I just keep thinking about how subtle it all was.  It most likely is just as subtle for our sons and daughters out there.

It's hard to know how to handle this.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 13, 2010, 04:27:49 pm
Oh, Coco, I'll be you wouldn't have listened....sadly, you wouldn't have.  Would you?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 13, 2010, 04:42:24 pm
That's exactly what I was thinking, Chickie.  I'm not sure I would have.  That's why I wonder, when people do these studies if they have also done studies on how to reach someone going into these relationships.

It sure would help on this site.  It doesn't matter though.  Just the article with the "why's" may help someone. Every post is a tool like that.  You just never know when a light bulb will go off for someone.  It has for me at times...
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 13, 2010, 04:45:41 pm
Coco, maybe someone with some smarts in counseling could help with how to deal with them, what to do if you're in the midst of one of them.  I hope so.

Probably getting the heck out of Dodge would be the only thing to do.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 13, 2010, 04:51:21 pm
LOL!  Getting the heck out of dodge IS the only thing to do.  Getting someone to see they are heading for danger is a problem.  That's why it's so smart of these DIL's on here who are going through counselling before they get married to their husbands.  I think it will help them go in with their eyes wide open.  - Or at least squinted since we all know love is blind.  LOL!

I'm not sure even that would have helped me though.  My husband had his psychology phd.  He knew the ropes and used them.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 13, 2010, 04:55:27 pm
Boy, Coco, what a terrible position to be in....a control freak and a Psycho Dr. both.  :(
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 13, 2010, 05:08:13 pm
Hehehe!  Yep!  He fried my brain and heart at the same time!  I can't say he was all bad though.  I am thankful for the time I had with him, even if I didn't really know who he was.  Life gives you things like that sometimes, and I enjoyed the dream while I had it.  He has wanted me back.  He knew I loved him sooo blindly.  I doted on him.  All he had to do was wake up and go to the bathroom.  I did the rest, cars, bills, entertaining, got the paper for him in the morning and had it sitting at the table on the deck with a tray of coffee and breakfast.  I think his "wake up" was when he realized he would never find another woman who loved him that much.  I can't trust him though, so in all fairness, can't ever take him back.  I did once and (long story very short) it was a mistake.  I checked up on him (I paid the bills so I saw the phone records, etc.).  It didn't work.  Broke my heart and still does because if you ever met him you would tell me how charming my husband was. 

And I would agree...

I'm so happy you found this article.  I think it will help someone! :)
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 13, 2010, 05:11:24 pm
Oh my goodness, please don't ever go back~!!  No matter how weak you get. :'(
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 13, 2010, 05:14:37 pm
I won't do that.  I promise.  It would be damaging to me if I did.  It doesn't matter how I feel about him, he's not the person I thought he was and that stands in my way, every time.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 13, 2010, 05:42:21 pm
I left at forty after I took my first job (as a Workmen's Comp disability insurance adjuster) and realized there were tire tracks all over me. I'm not sure I would do it again. It was so hard on Kirk and terribly hard on DH, who didn't have a clue who I was or care to find out after knowing me since we were pre-schoolers, but who was still devastated. My eldest son was about to leave the nest and go into the Marines but Kirk was only ten and his dad left Washington and went back to Michigan. I pulled the pin and everything collapsed. You'd think Kirk would be the "I hate my mother" son...but he wasn't.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 13, 2010, 06:19:48 pm
took a lot of courage!!!  Hard for everyone.... :'(
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 13, 2010, 06:39:03 pm
Quote from: luise.volta on February 13, 2010, 05:42:21 pm
I left at forty after I took my first job (as a Workmen's Comp disability insurance adjuster) and realized there were tire tracks all over me. I'm not sure I would do it again. It was so hard on Kirk and terribly hard on DH, who didn't have a clue who I was or care to find out after knowing me since we were pre-schoolers, but who was still devastated. My eldest son was about to leave the nest and go into the Marines but Kirk was only ten and his dad left Washington and went back to Michigan. I pulled the pin and everything collapsed. You'd think Kirk would be the "I hate my mother" son...but he wasn't.

Good for you and better for Kirk.  It's funny.  I have twins, but only one of them is loving and understanding like that.  The other is a social animal and that's all she is interested in.  It's kind of like winning a lottery to end up with even one that is like that, isn't it?  I don't know where I'd be without her.  Of course this passes on sometimes, because I think my parents are saying that about me too!  LOL!

Kirk is a gift for you.  You deserved someone to love and understand you, and from what I've read on momresponds.com, you also got an avid supporter!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 13, 2010, 07:37:30 pm
How beautiful that you know the joy of that kind of connection. What a gift!  :-)

Kirk's an amazing guy. I don't see him often, but when he introduces me he always says. "This is my Mom, my oldest friend." He has been there for me like no one on the planet and I for him. When he tells people on Kauai that he is coming over for my birthday (he always stays down the road in his own place for a month) and says he's really excited about seeing me, they look at him like he's nuts...and say, "You WANT to see your mother?"  LOL!

When I recently suffered that fractured tibia, he offered to come over and do whatever needed to be done....which was sweet...but not practical. And when I won those two awards last Fall, he made a video of the first one and put it on You Tube and Facebook for my grandsons and great grandkids in Paris.  :-)

I could go on and on.... :D

His wife (partner) is exactly what he deserves. She's an incredible woman and she and I have a great time together when they come over here for the summer. (Thank heaven they can't take the heat and humidity in Hawaii!)

What did you see on MomResponds?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 13, 2010, 08:09:05 pm
Well, I can't find the exact quote on momresponds anymore.  Maybe I read it here?  Anyway, somewhere there is a write-up about how he encouraged you to do internet work, and backed you up in this.  Now, that's a gift! He saw how special you were, not just to him - but he recognised your gift and saw the need to start an internet site for you to expand your reach!  Most mothers are lucky to have children who notice they're still breathing.  It's unusual for our "grown" children to pay that kind of loving attention to our well being.  He did that with you!

One of mine is like that too.  When we moved back up here and didn't have any money anymore, she said, "mom" you won't need any money, because I'm going to make alot of money and when I am rich, I am going to buy you a house on the beach again.  She is an artist and has won some money awards (savings bonds) and sold some pictures.  I sort of laughed and thought she was really sweet when she said that, but now her art teacher is telling me she is doing professional quality work and has been for some time.  She may win a scholarship.  I'm excited for her (but am not holding her to that sweet promise she keeps reminding me of).  I will have an inheritance that will buy me my retirement.  We will be fine. 

Luise, we're so blessed to have children who love us so much!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 13, 2010, 08:30:09 pm
Did I put the speech I gave last Fall on MILU? I gave it at the Bank of America volunteerism awards ceremony in Seattle last Fall. I don't recall...it was all a kind of blur. I got a $5,000. grant for the non-profit of my choice, as well. And it does mention Kirk's encouragement and support. (As well as his heartlessness. LOL!)

Here it is:



Here's my three minute speech. :-)


Hi! I feel very honored to be given this recognition and award. I want to personally thank MY bank, which *is* the Bank of America!

I'm 82 years old and I've enjoyed many different volunteering opportunities since I retired at the age of 60. I was introduced to computers when my son moved to Hawaii in 1998. He gave me his desktop PC, hooked me up to an ISP, covered my bed with manuals, (all written in Greek)...and told me that our communication would be going to a new level. His exact words were, "Figure it out, Mom!"  And believe it or not, I did.

When my husband and I moved to the Warm Beach Retirement Center in Stanwood nine years ago, we both enjoyed all kinds of volunteering. However about four years ago, I realized that I was going to be offering him more and more assistance...and that would necessarily limit, if not eliminate, my outside volunteering. (He turned 98 this month.)

With my son's expertise as webmaster, I created my counseling website, www.MomResponds.com  It was launched on Mother's Day of 2006. Many categories soon developed with subjects ranging from "Facing the Death of a Loved One" to "Making a Small Living Room Look Large". I'm about to answer my nine hundredth question and have received and published over twelve hundred comments. Every year I get over 100,000 Unique Visitors to my site.

My online advertising income is unimpressive but what MomResponds it all about is three things; listening carefully...acknowledging the person sincerely...and offering options. That's what men and women in all walks of life, and children of all ages want...worldwide.

Three major questions are asked repeatedly; "Why Do My Son and DIL Hate Me? How Can I Find the Vehicle Identification Number on my Aging Travel Trailer?" And..."What Can I do About My Sexless Relationship?" (I'm open to all the help I can get on the last one!)

Where I see the need, I'm creating special interest web-forums. The first one was www.wisewomenunite.com It's where the much-maligned have the opportunity to re-align. The operating principle being understanding and support...not judgment.

My second forum, www.vintagervforum.com, is in the hopper.

I'm finding the web a never-ending and exciting adventure. To be accepted there and acknowledged here...is a great privilege.

Thank you, again
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 13, 2010, 08:46:30 pm
I don't think that's it, but it may be.  It's been about a month since I looked through the introductions, but it was in there somewhere.  Maybe I have a concept in my little head that says that from reading between lines?????

My memory isn't the best...  I remember general things about people, but that's about it!  LOL!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 13, 2010, 08:47:17 pm
So clever and funny too.  Luise, you don't stand still long enough to get dust on your shoes, do you?  Hope I can be that active at your age. 8)  Keeps your mind sharp.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 13, 2010, 08:50:49 pm
I FOUND IT!  It's actually in your introduction to momresponds.com.  Here's the copy/paste!

Several years after she retired her sons introduced her to computers, web-surfing, email, e-shopping. The idea of broadening her counseling into that venue came from those closest to her who felt they wanted to share her wisdom with others.

She's game, if you are!

HA!  I was starting to think I was imagining things!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 13, 2010, 08:58:19 pm
Bingo! :-)))) I wasn't game when I was down for the count for the last three months and trying to figure out how to be a care giver from a wheelchair! I had to stay on top of MomResponds since it's a one-gal-show and I just had to give up on MILU.

But...I'm back in the saddle! :-)

I really missed MILU and I an SO glad to be back!

You are a major contributor and I can't thank you enough for sharing your experience and wisdom!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 13, 2010, 09:03:28 pm
Thank you, Luise.  I am just happy that you have this site here!  What a wonderful thought/creation!

How many women will you help here? 

And still counting.... ;D
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 13, 2010, 09:05:09 pm
Everyone here is glad your back too! 

Count me in!! ;D
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 14, 2010, 07:41:42 am
It isn't love, Anna....there is no doubt about that.  My forever question is why?  Why would these gorgeous, well educated men we brought up allow this?  Did they need this in their lives for some reason?  I wish I could have a do-over.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 08:06:56 am
Quote from: Anna on February 14, 2010, 07:15:54 am
[my son says she never says a bad word about anyone, & yet the only friends they have now are ones they met after they got together.  All sons earlier friends are a very small part of their lives if at all.  She tolerates one friend, but he lives far enough away not to be a problem.  Family doesn't feel comfortable around her, which, of course is all my fault.  ???  My son has been brainwashed.  It is obvious to his loved ones, & so, so sad that he can't be his own person.  I will never understand why my dil felt the need to totally control someone she says she loves.  To me, this is not love.  Acceptence of the person he is, now that's love!!

Anna,  he may not even realize that he is being controlled.  Sometimes it's so subtle and happens over such an extended period of time, that the person this happens to doesn't even realize it.

You are still there in his heart.  He remembers who you are and knows you.  You raised him and I don't believe he will forget that.  Control isn't love.  Sometimes I think the people who are caught up in this (including me in my past), love someone thinking they are loved and valued by that person - because that's what they are told and they "want" to believe that person they love so much. 

Time is ticking, and I believe it's on your side.

Hang in there and be as loving as you always were!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 08:09:11 am
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on February 14, 2010, 07:41:42 am
It isn't love, Anna....there is no doubt about that.  My forever question is why?  Why would these gorgeous, well educated men we brought up allow this?  Did they need this in their lives for some reason?  I wish I could have a do-over.

I agree, Chickie!
Hindsight is alway 20/20.  It's just too bad we can't all have a do-over - given the knowledge we have today!   :-[
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 09:07:06 am
Anna, I'm sorry they are ignoring you like that, but at the same time happy your son has "one eye open!"  What do you think of sharing some of these posts with your hubby, since he is the only one they are listening to.  He may be able to reach your son where you can't.  It sound like he is very supportive of you and may be able work at ensuring you are considered as mother/grandmother. 

Keep your chin up!  It sounds like you're taking baby steps and that means (I'm hoping) there will be light at the end of that tunnel for you.  Wouldn't that be nice?  You are bringing more good news here lately, I've noticed that!

Your "sun" picture is brighter every time I read one of your posts.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed (and keeping you in my prayers!). :)
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 14, 2010, 10:46:58 am
I keep wondering if it isn't partly a kind of transference. At one time our sons minded us. It was a necessary part of childhood; a safety requirement. This may be really far out but do any of you think that they found comfort in our protection (control) and are unconsciously trying to replicate it? Is that off the charts?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Pen on February 14, 2010, 11:26:31 am
It's definitely worth pursuing. But why are we moms being punished for providing comfort/protection/control to our sons? I didn't know it would bite me later  :'( I just thought I was doing what a mom was supposed to do.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 14, 2010, 11:55:28 am
They so casually call for cut offs and semi-cut offs like we're nothing but an animal that has to be reprimanded.  How do these people live with themselves?  So harsh and cruel. 

...."until we can behave and learn their boundaries."  This might as well be a death sentence.  I'll never live through it.  :'(

The secret whisperer who tells our sons of how we really are.  I'm not even mad anymore.  I've never hurt a single person in my life, knowingly.  What do we have to do to behave like she wants?  Die?  I've seen that written...they want us to die.  When our husband's die they complain that the wrong one died. 

Why are they like this and why was that book written?  I don't know the woman who wrote it and I'm sure she's helped people but look at the lives she's destroyed.   

Be careful when you're no longer useful.  When the GC grow a little and they no longer need you to babysit;  you will be thrown out like yesterday's garbage.   
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 14, 2010, 12:57:36 pm
Well, if it's an unconscious need for the comfort of childhood control...maybe some guys can't have two moms? Too confusing? And maybe some wives see a battle for supremacy as normal?

If we have open arms, what good does that do us? War is declared and we are vanquished before we know what hit us.

Our sons have chosen and they get to pretend that they didn't look for an find a new mommy. And we get to forever wonder why all of it was necessary and how to go on and pretend we're fine.

Question? Why do some sons and some DILs do this and some don't? I had (one has passed on) one of each. Same mom, so how can I beat myself up for doing it wrong?

What a heartbreaking puzzlement.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 14, 2010, 01:08:09 pm
Luise, I don't know of any Mothers who don't experience this with married sons.  You're the only one....if they have a daughter, they're usually fine because they belong somewhere.

I don't have a daughter, wish I did.  I guess they do have another Mommy...it sure looks like it. 
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 01:20:11 pm
Quote from: luise.volta on February 14, 2010, 10:46:58 am
I keep wondering if it isn't partly a kind of transference. At one time our sons minded us. It was a necessary part of childhood; a safety requirement. This may be really far out but do any of you think that they found comfort in our protection (control) and are unconsciously trying to replicate it? Is that off the charts?

Oh! Is that ever a light bulb going off!  We have taught our sons about control by being concerned mothers!  They may believe they are "being good husbands" by letting all that control happen.
What do you think of this idea?

I believe everyone on here was a concerned and loving mother.  It seems we all have this common link.  By protecting our children, we could have been "equated" as controlling.  After all, when they were young we really did protect them to the extent of "controlling" their influences, etc...

It's a thought worth examination!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 14, 2010, 02:10:06 pm
Thinking, thinking...
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: peggyrice@triad.rr.com on February 14, 2010, 02:40:27 pm
The transference idea is interesting...........A couple of nights ago I received an email from the DIL that she was "done with me!"  She listed all the twisted and imagined reasons and also listed all the perfect qualities that she posessed.  My younger son wants to speak with his older brother and tell him to "man up" and try to get his wife in line and not to turn his back on his family.  Even my ex-husband is frustrated and angery with my DIL's behavior.  He is smart enought to wonder who will be next on the cut out list.  The problem is that I have not heard from my older son since........Oh me........will it ever end.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 02:45:31 pm
Quote from: luise.volta on February 14, 2010, 02:10:06 pm
Thinking, thinking...

Luise, you had one of each.  Every child is different an thrives in different environments. We have to look at them as individuals and go with that (as mothers).  Do you think some children thrive in the protection and others may be more individualistic?  Maybe our sons are taking what we gave them and transferring it into their wives.  If this were the case, they would be looking for "comfort" in thier love for their wives.  Something "we" gave them as loving and protecting mothers.  We didn't know it, but when they came to be adults and found "that" woman they loved and wanted to spend the rest of their lives with, that would explain why some looked for "comfort in control" and others looked within.  Thank about it and tell me what you think?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 02:49:13 pm
Quote from: Carolina Gal on February 14, 2010, 02:40:27 pm
The transference idea is interesting...........A couple of nights ago I received an email from the DIL that she was "done with me!"  She listed all the twisted and imagined reasons and also listed all the perfect qualities that she posessed.  My younger son wants to speak with his older brother and tell him to "man up" and try to get his wife in line and not to turn his back on his family.  Even my ex-husband is frustrated and angery with my DIL's behavior.  He is smart enought to wonder who will be next on the cut out list.  The problem is that I have not heard from my older son since........Oh me........will it ever end.

Thanks Carolina!
If my "transferrence" theory is correct, it would explain the difference in "why" some sons (children) differ in their choices like this. 

I believe this is a theory worh looking into. If this assumption is correct, it could help alot of mother's out there.  It might help mothers in the future avoid the same things we are suffering from.  I hope it helps, but you never know...
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 02:55:00 pm
What that would mean, is that by being protective and loving mothers while our sons/daughters were still young enough to need this, they may have (some of them) relished in this warm fuzzy protectiveness.  This met their needs as children.  When they became adults and "fell in love with that person," if that person showed control, it could have equated to the loving protectiveness of their mothers. Their first experience with love...  They are driven by that instinct to be protected (and ultimately equate that with control).

I can only hope this is making sense.  Cant you give me your thoughts?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 03:01:08 pm
Tell me your insights here?  Suggestion?  Questions?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: peggyrice@triad.rr.com on February 14, 2010, 03:12:16 pm
The strange thing is that I raised two sons.  The younger son is really upset with the way his older brother is acting.  The younger son can see that his older brother is allowing the DIL too much power and is giving into the posessiveness.  My younger son is strongly opposed to the behavior and the older son seems to not see the posessiveness as a "red flag".  I taught these young men the same lessons and they were raised in the same environment.   Sometimes I think children are born with qualities that we have no control over.  As parents we try to instill the best into our children and there is so much they have to learn after they leave our homes.  I do not think we can accept all the blame - maybe they have to make their own mistakes as we have had to do.  I did not really know the dangers of controllers until I was in my mis thirties.  It took a lot of time for me to redefine what a healthy love was.  My children were 1- 6 years of age when I was in my "bad relationship".  The model they saw then was not a healthy one.  The one I have now is a great one.  I have heard that the 1 to 6 year range has a strong influence on young children
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 03:14:45 pm
Quote from: luise.volta on February 14, 2010, 03:02:45 pm
Well, lets see. I am sure there are many different kinds of sons, personality-wise. And the circumstances in their childhoods can differ, as well.

My elder son married an older woman and left her when she stopped indulging him. The controller was the second wife. As my first child, he was indulged and focused on. He's the one who took exception to me in his teens and never let up.

I took my younger son more in my stride and was less anxious . He married someone he controlled. Then he married someone who controlled him and left him when she got tired of that. Then he married a really nasty controller and now he is married to an equal and loving partner. 15 years!

Since I have been married five times, there wasn't much I could say about all of that. I got into marriages that fit, initially, that I eventually outgrew. One guy I married twice..and one was a six-week fiasco. Two were 18 years. This one is 20. I don't give up easily. And I finally got it right! ;D

Lots to think about here...

As teenager's we all "test the waters" with authority.  We push away that comfort and come into our own - or "find out" who we are.  Subconsciously, we may still be looking for what's comfortable and pushing away our upbringing let's us get to know "us" through that stage.  Subconsciously, we may "want" to have that love that we first learned.  As "good mothers" we may have taught them that "control is love."  How we were brought into "being who we are" may have something to do with that.

Am I making any sense here?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 03:17:27 pm
Quote from: Carolina Gal on February 14, 2010, 03:12:16 pm
The strange thing is that I raised two sons.  The younger son is really upset with the way his older brother is acting.  The younger son can see that his older brother is allowing the DIL too much power and is giving into the posessiveness.  My younger son is strongly opposed to the behavior and the older son seems to not see the posessiveness as a "red flag".  I taught these young men the same lessons and they were raised in the same environment.   Sometimes I think children are born with qualities that we have no control over.  As parents we try to instill the best into our children and there is so much they have to learn after they leave our homes.  I do not think we can accept all the blame - maybe they have to make their own mistakes as we have had to do.  I did not really know the dangers of controllers until I was in my mis thirties.  It took a lot of time for me to redefine what a healthy love was.  My children were 1- 6 years of age when I was in my "bad relationship".  The model they saw then was not a healthy one.  The one I have now is a great one.  I have heard that the 1 to 6 year range has a strong influence on young children

Hmmm, very good food for thought!  Let me digest.  You please do the same..

But, do you understand the "light bulb" that went off with me?  Give me more thoughts. Let me know if I'm wrong here and I'll drop the thought.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 14, 2010, 03:17:51 pm
C/G - Yes, I have read that our values and beliefs are fully established by the time we are seven. And I also see that there is a lot involving individuality that we have to factor in. Then, each child has the unique experience of where they fit into the family structure. Complex stuff.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 14, 2010, 03:20:49 pm
And I don't think there is any right or wrong in this discussion...don't drop anything. We are weaving a tapestry of logic and experience that I see as highly valuable.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 03:23:47 pm
Luise, if there is some way you know of, to check on this theory, please do.  You may be onto something here on your site.  I just feel as if there is some truth here.  Do you know of anyone that could check this?

I don't have these "light bulbs" very often and understanding the human psyche is so complicated....  This may even be something already known.  I don't know.  I just felt this from an earlier post.  Ping! = light bulb, maybe just for me, but I want to share this.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 03:27:01 pm
Quote from: Carolina Gal on February 14, 2010, 03:12:16 pm
The strange thing is that I raised two sons.  The younger son is really upset with the way his older brother is acting.  The younger son can see that his older brother is allowing the DIL too much power and is giving into the posessiveness.  My younger son is strongly opposed to the behavior and the older son seems to not see the posessiveness as a "red flag".  I taught these young men the same lessons and they were raised in the same environment.   Sometimes I think children are born with qualities that we have no control over.  As parents we try to instill the best into our children and there is so much they have to learn after they leave our homes.  I do not think we can accept all the blame - maybe they have to make their own mistakes as we have had to do.  I did not really know the dangers of controllers until I was in my mis thirties.  It took a lot of time for me to redefine what a healthy love was.  My children were 1- 6 years of age when I was in my "bad relationship".  The model they saw then was not a healthy one.  The one I have now is a great one.  I have heard that the 1 to 6 year range has a strong influence on young children

Carolina, I have to quote this and think through it.  I just feel like you've hit something here that we all can get!

Your younger son was closer to you, right?  He didn't really need or want the "warm fuzzie protection," but was more independant - because he already had what he wanted (or needed for his own individuality) from you as your child.  Nobody (sons or daughters) new came in and "took" that attention away from him.

Your older son does not see the control as a red flag (I'm thinking out loud).  He wasn't as close to you growing up, right?  He may have always been jealous of your strong (however independant) relationship witih your younger son.  That control was something he may have secretly craved.  The control his wife has may be something he subconsciously has wanted and craved through the jealousy of the relationship you shared with your younger son.  Different dynamics, that were not understood by him at such a young age.  He was just learning and jealous of his brother.  He was your "son-shine" and then there was a new baby who took that away from him...
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 14, 2010, 03:28:51 pm
I know there are many schools of thought in psychology. Perhaps we have a psychologist among us! (?) What is true for me is that when I get that kind of light-bulb reaction I believe that for me it is a truth.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 03:29:01 pm
Do you think it's possible that your older son "craves" the close relationship you had with your younger son, because of your younger son's independance?  Your older son wasn't as independant until he reached his teen right?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 03:31:02 pm
Quote from: luise.volta on February 14, 2010, 03:28:51 pm
I know there are many schools of thought in psychology. Perhaps we have a psychologist among us! (?) What is true for me is that when I get that kind of light-bulb reaction I believe that for me it is a truth.

That's what I'm wondering Luise.  It may be a "truth" just for me?  That's why I'm asking what all of you think?  Let me know if you think I'm wrong.  What may be "truth" for me, may not be for you.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 14, 2010, 03:32:05 pm
I'm off to take my guy over to our Assisted Care dining room for supper. Love to all.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 03:32:25 pm
I'm not saying I'm right, but asking...

Can everyone give it some thought and let me know what you think?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Pen on February 14, 2010, 03:37:02 pm
I'm still shocked when I read stories like Carolina's about her DIL emailing her a very nasty note ("I'm done with you!") I can't imagine, as angry and hurt as I've been with DIL, ever writing such a rude, hateful, hurtful letter.

I keep going back to the thought, correct or not, that people who can treat others this way do not see others as worthy of tolerance or respect. To them, people are possessions or objects that either get their attention and care or are abused and cast aside. On a global scale this affliction can cause war and genocide. Closer to home it breaks up families and creates feelings of worthlessness and low self-esteem.

Maybe we should investigate the findings of experts on cults. Cults operate by control, don't they? For various reasons, otherwise smart, accomplished people get caught up in cult situations. The "recruiters" know who they should approach and exploit a tiny little need into a full-blown attachment. I know people who seemed like very self-assured, intelligent, critical thinkers but they still joined very controlling religious/other cults. Oooo, I love research!

This is just how it seems to me...having been on the receiving end of a narcissistic, controlling parent's weirdness, a couple of co-workers and bosses, and now DIL. You'd think I could see it coming, but they're very slick and I still get fooled now and then. Thank God most of the people I know arent' like that :D
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: peggyrice@triad.rr.com on February 14, 2010, 03:42:20 pm
My older son was always the kind and considerate one - Thoughtful - always sensitive to my thoughts and feelings.  We talked more and he required less discipline - I could verbally teach him.  The older son was more emotionally attached to me whereas the younger one acted like he did not care though he let me know he did care for me in his own way. The younger one was stubborn, hard to handle and required a stronger hand when discipline was needed.  It was always obvious he had a great big heart - just a bull moose to handle - did not listen well when he was young.  My son's were and are as different as night and day and have grown into men that are very different in many ways. 
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 03:57:11 pm
Quote from: Carolina Gal on February 14, 2010, 03:42:20 pm
My older son was always the kind and considerate one - Thoughtful - always sensitive to my thoughts and feelings.  We talked more and he required less discipline - I could verbally teach him.  The older son was more emotionally attached to me whereas the younger one acted like he did not care though he let me know he did care for me in his own way. The younger one was stubborn, hard to handle and required a stronger hand when discipline was needed.  It was always obvious he had a great big heart - just a bull moose to handle - did not listen well when he was young.  My son's were and are as different as night and day and have grown into men that are very different in many ways.

You just blew the theory I thought I had.  Luise must have been right.  It was something for me.  I really thought this understanding might help here.  I'm sorry guys!

I'll keep thinking and trudging...  You do the same.  We'll get it!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 04:00:20 pm
Carolina, I still think there was something profound in your posts.  I'm going to re- read them. 

Thanks Carolina!  I don't know what for, but you gave me something.  I'll figure it out!  I'll tell you when I do, even if it's nothing more than a new flavor of bubble-gum!  LOL!  Something is there in your posts.  It just hit me like a ton of bricks...
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 04:11:42 pm
I wish I were a psychologist.  I'm just not. 

At least this was food for thought.  If nothing more...
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 14, 2010, 04:21:16 pm
I wish I was a psychologist too....maybe that would help but since "they" usually go into psychology to figure themselves out,  it seems to me that most of them are nuttier than fruitcakes.  Or, the ones I've seen are.

My friend who is one is a nut, a nice nut but a nut...she almost lost her mind when her son married a control freak and wouldn't allow him to talk to his mother.  She now says you get over it with time...she also has a daughter who is devoted to her.  Makes a difference. 
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: peggyrice@triad.rr.com on February 14, 2010, 04:54:47 pm
I think the need to control another person is born from insecurity.  I think it is a sickness and distructive in nature.  Also, if this insecurity continues unchecked, it can tear apart families and hurt many many people.  We are seperate individuals and, with God's help, share each other for segments of our lives.  We are intimate and then stand alone.  We should charish these intimate times and do nothing to upset the trust and care we experience when we are together.  I think the younger women we wrestle with are very insecure and do not know how to share and value the relationships of extended family.  It is just so sad.  So distructive and so very sad.  My husband says that we can not teach them that they are making terrible mistakes.  He says they have to see it for themselves.  Will they before the trust is completely, totally and forever distroyed?  I am not sure a relationship can ever be really close after trust is distroyed......... I can find no solutions and have to give it to God and compartmentalize the situation to keep from crying....
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Marilyn on February 14, 2010, 05:45:44 pm

My older son was always the kind and considerate one - Thoughtful - always sensitive to my thoughts and feelings.  We talked more and he required less discipline - I could verbally teach him.  The older son was more emotionally attached to me whereas the younger one acted like he did not care though he let me know he did care for me in his own way. The younger one was stubborn, hard to handle and required a stronger hand when discipline was needed.  It was always obvious he had a great big heart - just a bull moose to handle - did not listen well when he was young.  My son's were and are as different as night and day and have grown into men that are very different in many ways.





This discribes my two sons to a tee!!!!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 06:14:05 pm
I really wish I had the training to know the difference in personalities.  I would like to know what makes people choose these controlling people and not see it as "control."  I guess that's me and I hope someday to understand that. 

Thanks everyone, who let me ramble tonight.  I do that - it's a problem...
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 14, 2010, 07:02:20 pm
You make perfect sense to me, Coco!!  And, you don't ramble :)
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 07:13:21 pm
Butdidaosiakitusksij ..  .

Wha? 

Thank you Chickie.  I'm happy you understood what I was saying.  There were times I thought everyone must be sitting and staring at their computer screens with that "deer in the headlights" looks on their faces!  HA!  I do go on and on when I see light bulbs...

You're too sweet and I appreciate you!  I'm happy you're here ;D
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Marilyn on February 14, 2010, 07:23:57 pm
Coco,you don't ramble on,just trying to make some logic of it all.

Quote from: cocobars on February 14, 2010, 06:14:05 pm
I really wish I had the training to know the difference in personalities.  I would like to know what makes people choose these controlling people and not see it as "control."  I guess that's me and I hope someday to understand that. 

Thanks everyone, who let me ramble tonight.  I do that - it's a problem...

They don't see the control, from all the manipulation.
I didn't see it in my marriage,until a couple of years before i divorced.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: peggyrice@triad.rr.com on February 15, 2010, 03:32:36 am
Coco you are great.  We appreciate your insight and thoughts.  Please keep doing what you do and be perfectly YOU.  Is that not why most of us are here?  We have to stuff so much as we go through our days.....Somewhere, we just have to be honest.  It is very nice to have you guys to bounce thoughts with....
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cremebrulee on February 15, 2010, 04:14:11 am
I've read this thread thru and found it to be sad, but informative....
I'm with you gals, my son was always so thoughtful and caring, trusting...I guess these DIL's of ours really know how and who to set they're hooks into....

Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 15, 2010, 04:19:52 am
Quote from: luise.volta on February 14, 2010, 10:46:58 am
I keep wondering if it isn't partly a kind of transference. At one time our sons minded us. It was a necessary part of childhood; a safety requirement. This may be really far out but do any of you think that they found comfort in our protection (control) and are unconsciously trying to replicate it? Is that off the charts?


Luise, it was your post that set off those light bulbs!  This is the whole concept I was trying to make sense of last night and yes, this is worth considering.

Carolina, Mominwaiting, thank you for such kind words.  Maybe Luise can think this through and put it into some organized thoughts for us.  My thoughts go all over the place - as you saw last night.

I am still impressed with what compassionate and understanding women we have here!  Not too many sites would have let me go on and on like that without understanding what I was saying!  LOL!

Thanks again!  You are all so sweet! :)
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 15, 2010, 04:21:52 am
Hi Creme!  I'm happy to see you here this morning!  Hope you had a wonderful Valentine's Day! 

This is truly a sad post and very true.  I just wish we could understand.  I keep looking for answers I may never find.  I guess it doesn't hurt to try though.  You never know!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: peggyrice@triad.rr.com on February 15, 2010, 04:36:02 am
Facing this kind of senseless rejection, exclusion and emotional abuse is sad.  We will move on though and put that smile on our faces.  Facing harsh reality is sad and we may never find a reasonable answer as to why........All I know to do is place my life in God's hands, do my very best, focus on the positive and try to keep warm and caring people in my life.  I think our associations weigh heavily when considering our personal happiness - something I learned the hard way in my mid thirties.....We are strong.  Maybe beat up a little, but strong enough to try to find answers and live a decent productive life.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cremebrulee on February 15, 2010, 06:25:06 am
Quote from: cocobars on February 15, 2010, 04:21:52 am
Hi Creme!  I'm happy to see you here this morning!  Hope you had a wonderful Valentine's Day! 

This is truly a sad post and very true.  I just wish we could understand.  I keep looking for answers I may never find.  I guess it doesn't hurt to try though.  You never know!


Hi Coco

we as women are fixers....we want so to get along and have healthy relationships....I certainly agree with the posts that said, insecurity is the root of tearing families apart, and they see people as possessions...which is very very true....

however, I've concluded after 12 years of this....that regardless of her agenda, there is nothing more I can do.  I keep thinking if only I did this or that...however, when your dealing with a person who posesses fear and insecurity...nothing you do is right...my son, was at one time a very loving person...and I would have never guessed that he would have married a woman, capable of hurting like my DIL does...but he has...and he loves her, and there is nothing I can do to change her feelings towards me...

understanding a situation, helps us to cope, but, we will never have all the answers to our questions, so we just have to learn how to move on without our sons, GC, and survive...instead of trying to understand they whys of why our DIL's do these things...

Personally, I believe anyone that intentionally hurts another human being is not a happy stable person....however, for some reasons, our son's love these gals, and there is nothing we can do....but back off and try to keep our mouths zipped....otherwise, we look like what our DIL's are portraying us to be....

as an example of how sick some of these women are....I saw a post which asked what the DIL's would do, if they're MIL's died.  Two of them said, they'd squat and pee on they're MIL's graves????  God, was I shocked...and it shocked me so much I told several of my friends about it and they were not only shocked, but disgusted, and said, "What is wrong with people today, people are sick"  Coco, you can't deal with a mind like that....let alone understand the why's of how they think and do things?   



Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 15, 2010, 07:49:31 am
It seems useless to read and share that kind of negativity. We know it exists and we know we can't fix it. It just makes me feel worse. You're right, we are fixers. It's part of our job description and none of us know how to be giver-uppers. It takes a lot of sharing to create a critical mass regarding the wisdom of giving up. It doesn't sound or feel like a solution but we are all finding ir sounds and feels like survival.

We share our similar experiences and, at least for me, that helps with the aloneness and the endless trying to see where I "went wrong." It's illuminating to get that I didn't...someone out there raised a daughter with beliefs and values that are destructive and have hurt my family and me deeply.

I never wanted my son to be a giver-upper...he's a peace-maker and maybe I am to blame for that. I once believed that kindness prevailed and I tried to teach that. I didn't bring him up in a defensive stance. He isn't belligerent, aggressive and cruel. My mistake.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cremebrulee on February 15, 2010, 08:18:51 am
No Louise, you are to blame for nothing...you raised a wonderful son, and these women, have they're hooks out for someone like our sons.  They are just really nice guys who want to make they're wives happy...and have a successful marriage....we surely can't blame them for that.

Yes, I do agree with your evaluation of my last post as far as the negativity of the DIL website.  However, I didn't come to terms with the idea that my DIL thought like that....I wouldn't believe she was that mean...years ago, ohhh, maybe 2 or 3 years ago, on another web site, I remember reading how one DIL mentioned that her In-laws were coming and proceeded to complain about it...and said, I will never sleep in that bed again.  I remember thinking, that's weird...my DIL would never feel like that (I was still in denial) she would never feel that way, until she sent the birthday card and money back to me, this past year....then I realized, the extent she would go to hurt someone she didn't like....and what I was trying to explain is the fact that you just cannot gain trust and love from a mind that thinks like that....can't even figure them out....really....

I suppose, what I'm trying to say, is....until I read some of the horrible comments that some of the DIL's write, I still had hope, and that hope I found, led me into more of a depression everytime my DIL did something else that was hurtful....

I'm not trying to hurt anyone or insult them, in any way, but, in the same, while in life, hope is our living water, when it comes to dealing with women as we have been forced to deal with, there is nothing you can do to win they're hearts....

I was ready to give my love and trust to her unconditionally, and when she rejected that with bad behavior, behavior that none of us were ever used to, it broke our hearts, but we still have hope....I remember someone telling me, "Hopefully when she has her own child she will realize how much she is hurting you"....but it never happened, she actually got worse...jealousy and fear of the love her husband and daughter had for me....

So, while I do appologize and understand, that every situation is different, I have found that abusive relationships, and we are being abused...all run along the same pattern, and are destined not to be...and false hope can really set us up as a victim and a battle which can never be won....

I wish and hope I'm wrong....but when you read the minds of some DIL's, it helped me give up...and go forward...

yes, I'm still heartbroken, I'm changed for life, but at least now, I fell down that mountain, a few cuts and scrapes, no broken bones, and I'm climbing back up, one small step at a time, trying to find me again....
will I ever get back that trust, that innocence and belief...?  I am very skeptical....

Like all of us, I wanted a family, instead, I lost a son, GC and daughter....and they're actions have hurt me beyond belief, as you all have been hurt as well....

You cannot figure a mind like that out...and I was trying to show you how hateful some of these women are, and how they think, they are not like us....they think with fear and hate, and it does in fact destroy a heart....

Most people get along, and work things out, but these girls do not want us in they're lives...



Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 15, 2010, 08:31:15 am
You certainly have nothing to apologize for. It just seems to me sometimes that we all know about the viciousness, first hand. Not "back then" but certainly now. I was being very negative about  raising such a nice guy. I just feel like that sometimes. We were all so trusting. I think we all wanted bigger families and more fun and simply assumed that's what adult children were all about. How natural!

Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cremebrulee on February 15, 2010, 08:39:01 am
Quote from: luise.volta on February 15, 2010, 08:31:15 am
You certainly have nothing to apologize for. It just seems to me sometimes that we all know about the viciousness, first hand. Not "back then" but certainly now. I was being very negative about  raising such a nice guy. I just feel like that sometimes. We were all so trusting. I think we all wanted bigger families and more fun and simply assumed that's what adult children were all about. How natural!


believe me, I do know what your talking about....all this is like a foreign culture to us...and yes, we are very trusting and never expected this, and yes, I surely did want more children but was not able to carry any others...love kids, was a youth group advisor and a Sunday School Teacher, even baby sat for children at one time...kids are the gift and future...to me, they are what life is about, procreation and man's survival....we were all raised in good loving families, where we never knew this kind of hate...so, once in a while, here of late, I have to go back to the DIL's sites, to remind myself, that there is no hope...I don't want to believe in something that is never going to happen....

do you know what really hurts...my son and DIL both have a facebook page....and since my son went away, he is always writing some thing on his wall about his beautiful wife....he is the one who always innitiates it...and says something like I am crazy in love with you....and I miss you...and then she always writes back and repeats what he says...nothing more, nothing less, and she never ever writes we're so proud of you and appreciate all your doing for us...or she is never the first one to write something in appreciation to him....I find that very sad, that he is constantly having to stroke her ego...and, by the way, he has learned how to do that very well.... :-\
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 15, 2010, 09:02:23 am
We all process this in our own way and it feels very supportive to me to have you in my corner and to be in yours. I simply have no experience of needing to remind myself or others, using an outside source, that there is no hope. I know it right down to my toes. My son died bathed in my DILs hate for his mom.

Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cremebrulee on February 15, 2010, 10:06:08 am
Quote from: luise.volta on February 15, 2010, 09:02:23 am
We all process this in our own way and it feels very supportive to me to have you in my corner and to be in yours. I simply have no experience of needing to remind myself or others, using an outside source, that there is no hope. I know it right down to my toes. My son died bathed in my DILs hate for his mom.


I'm so so sorry Luise....

I'm hugging you, can you feel it?

Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 15, 2010, 10:15:28 am
Yup, that came through...all warm and fuzzy. Thanks! 
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Pen on February 15, 2010, 10:44:38 am
Quote from: luise.volta on February 15, 2010, 08:31:15 am
We were all so trusting. I think we all wanted bigger families and more fun and simply assumed that's what adult children were all about. How natural!




I certainly was trusting, and I really felt we were going to be one big happy rollicking family. Instead it's all happening to DIL's family and we get the leftovers if anything. Holidays, birthdays, graduations, celebrations, vacations - all different now, suddenly. I try not to be depressed (I tend that way anyway) but it's hard when you know they're whooping it up and we're sitting here, the boring duty call instead of being the fun visit. We can't plan anything because DIL's family has already taken up all the free time! I'd hate to pay for tickets only to be cancelled on like they've done in the past. We're the last minute fillers, always caught unaware and madly trying to put something together. We end up looking like pathetic, needy losers. When I try to plan I have to go through DS who then checks with DIL. I'm assuming he gets flack because it will be days before I hear back. He's really caught, and we don't want to make his life more difficult, so we let it go. 
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 15, 2010, 10:58:22 am
I'm so sorry, P. There are MILs here who would be pitifully grateful to even be thrown that kind of bone. But that' what it is...dry...porous...decaying. Useless...unsatisfying...degrading. And she is ripping them off. They're missing out on all the good stuff you have to offer. A loving heart...open arms...sweetness.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cremebrulee on February 15, 2010, 11:23:44 am
Quote from: penstamen on February 15, 2010, 10:44:38 am
Quote from: luise.volta on February 15, 2010, 08:31:15 am
We were all so trusting. I think we all wanted bigger families and more fun and simply assumed that's what adult children were all about. How natural!




I certainly was trusting, and I really felt we were going to be one big happy rollicking family. Instead it's all happening to DIL's family and we get the leftovers if anything. Holidays, birthdays, graduations, celebrations, vacations - all different now, suddenly. I try not to be depressed (I tend that way anyway) but it's hard when you know they're whooping it up and we're sitting here, the boring duty call instead of being the fun visit. We can't plan anything because DIL's family has already taken up all the free time! I'd hate to pay for tickets only to be cancelled on like they've done in the past. We're the last minute fillers, always caught unaware and madly trying to put something together. We end up looking like pathetic, needy losers. When I try to plan I have to go through DS who then checks with DIL. I'm assuming he gets flack because it will be days before I hear back. He's really caught, and we don't want to make his life more difficult, so we let it go.


Hey Pen
If I may offer a suggestion, why don't you start planning around you and yours, and if they come fine, if not fine, however, don't be available everytime they decide....plan things to do, and go have fun doing them?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: renny97 on February 15, 2010, 11:31:52 am
Can anyone imagine what a difference in our lives, if all this wasn't so? Just daydreaming, here.

What if things were discussed, and we were included, and we got to see GC as often as the other MIL. DIL's father didn't rule the roost. One can dream.......

DIL has one of those "Live Love Laugh" plaques. My question, "Where's the laughter come in?"  ;D
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 15, 2010, 01:16:10 pm
Lips zipped.  :-X
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 15, 2010, 01:19:12 pm
...and the love?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 15, 2010, 03:22:42 pm
Maybe she is dreaming of love. If so...dream on. You don't create it that way.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Hope on February 16, 2010, 06:08:09 am
Creme, I love what you said below.  It's great advice that I need to act on more myself.  I've heard the same from close friends/family regarding my situation.  The absence of DS/DIL at family functions causes a breakdown in the "wholeness" of our family.  We have gone ahead and planned fun things to do anyway and have had loads of fun with our older daughter and her husband who are very good about seeing us.  My sister has a DIL that has been horrid to them and their DS/DIL turned down their invitation to an all expense paid, once-in-a-lifetime family vacation to Europe, but the rest of the family accepted.  I think it made their DS/DIL think twice after they heard how wonderful things went on the vacation and their situation did change for the better since.  How more difficult it is for those of you who don't have other children to enjoy.  My heart aches for you.  Hugs, Hope


Hey Pen
If I may offer a suggestion, why don't you start planning around you and yours, and if they come fine, if not fine, however, don't be available everytime they decide....plan things to do, and go have fun doing them?         Creme

Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cremebrulee on February 16, 2010, 06:16:03 am
QuoteHope
Creme, My sister has a DIL that has been horrid to them and their DS/DIL turned down their invitation to an all expense paid, once-in-a-lifetime family vacation to Europe, but the rest of the family accepted.  I think it made their DS/DIL think twice after they heard how wonderful things went on the vacation and their situation did change for the better since.  How more difficult it is for those of you who don't have other children to enjoy.  My heart aches for you.  Hugs, Hope


Hope, Hi again....

I would have to hear more of the story, but my son, invited me on a vacation with him, his wife, his step mother, his father....

Hope, once your children get married, life as you know it changes, forever...and we must adapt...we can't expect them to adopt our family traditions, and if our children, don't want to go along on a family vacation, it is they're choice....our children sometimes need to move on without us, which is so difficult for some mothers to adapt to...but, we can't expect it to be the same...

I would never go on a family vacation with my son and his wife...nor would I expect them to go with me...however, my girlfriends children and DIL's and SIL's all get along very well, and they do go on vacations together, however, they're son's took the time to find woman to marry that grew up like they did, so they are mentally compatible.  My DIL is not, and probably neither is yours or your girlfriends...my son, had to conform to her way of thinking in order for the marriage to survive...which is a lot of times, what our son's do. 
However, we must remember, it's they're lives, and I don't care what how you might deem a vacation a chance of a lifetime, it is still my time involved with people that I might not want to be with day in and day out for 5, 7 or 10 days....and that is they're choice, which a lot of us, actually refuse to acknowledge....

again, please understand, I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings.  The fact that I was a dil, helps me understand, two things...first, when our son's marry, we can't expect them to continue to adhear to the family traditions which we started while they were at home living with us...and 2.  if they don't come or want to go on a family vacation together, or family activities...we can't take it as a personal attack against us....
let me explain if I may...
my hubby had a huge family, there were always family holiday activities, then graduations, even children's confirmations, etc...the list went on and on, and I hated life then....every weekend, there was something we had to go to...and I worked a full time overtime job, and my weekends, were very valuable to me...but I never got down quiet time, to read, to relax, to watch tv...due to all these family outings...for me, it was a very hard life, demanding, and wasn't much fun....and I think we need to take a look at that as MIL's...and try to understand from there perspectives, that we cannot expect them to live out our dreams..of what we think is a perfect family....they need they're own down time, space, etc. 

In the same, if the Dil, is gravitating her husband away from his family and towards hers, all the time, then that is not fair either...somehow, a happy plane must be reached by fairness, understanding and maturity....we can't always have it the way we want it....yanno?




Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Pen on February 16, 2010, 08:30:11 am
Creme, we plan our own activities...but it's just DH & me. Sometimes DDD (dear disabled daughter) can come along. We have no other family within visiting distance. DIL doesn't like our friends, so if we plan anything with them it's a guarantee that DS & DIL won't show up. DH wants the door to remain open, so we don't plan much with friends (breaks my heart.) We enjoy our time, but there are occasions when a family/friends get-together is called for and we are left out. DS's family gets it all. I know I'm envious, and I know envy is an immature emotion, but I have a hard time with it - it pops up and gets the better of me just when I think I've overcome it!

Luise, I know I sound like I'm whining and that I have it better than a lot of MILs here. I try to be grateful for the little we get, actually. I really do. I think it's the imbalance between DILs family and ours that trips me up.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 16, 2010, 08:53:07 am
Creme,
You have to understand that even as a DIL, I believe you were very understanding.  You gave everything to your IL's, to the point of having no personal time.  This speaks volumes about what kind of an understanding and caring person you are proving to be on this site alone.  I'm not sure I would have been able to give that much to my IL's, and even with your assumption that you be available to "what came up" with your husbands family, if that were me - I would have had to opt out - even if occasionally.  LOL! 

Pen,
You are NOT whining.  Anyone would feel that way in your shoes.  You are riding in the "trunk," without the consideration of even being given the "back seat" (see Sassy's post on back seats)!

There may be no right or wrong when it comes to IL's.  Just understanding.  When that understanding becomes one-sided, it's just "all wrong." 

Feel that?  It's me hugging you both!!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cremebrulee on February 16, 2010, 09:24:54 am
Quote from: penstamen on February 16, 2010, 08:30:11 am
Creme, we plan our own activities...but it's just DH & me. Sometimes DDD (dear disabled daughter) can come along. We have no other family within visiting distance. DIL doesn't like our friends, so if we plan anything with them it's a guarantee that DS & DIL won't show up. DH wants the door to remain open, so we don't plan much with friends (breaks my heart.) We enjoy our time, but there are occasions when a family/friends get-together is called for and we are left out. DS's family gets it all. I know I'm envious, and I know envy is an immature emotion, but I have a hard time with it - it pops up and gets the better of me just when I think I've overcome it!

Luise, I know I sound like I'm whining and that I have it better than a lot of MILs here. I try to be grateful for the little we get, actually. I really do. I think it's the imbalance between DILs family and ours that trips me up.



Hi Pen....I sure do know the envy...believe me, it's a perfectly normal human emotion....which we can sometimes not help...the fact that you are able to identify it as being wrong and work on it, or even try to, but fail...is a good indication that someday, you will be successful in doing so...

one thing, I wouldn't do, is "not do things with my friends", to leave the door open for son and DIL...honey, your missing out on so much...so much...and I feel bad that hubby is doing that...

if DIL and son want to spend time with you, then make yourself a date with them that suits both partys and by all means, don't break a date/plans with friends, cuz son calls and wants to do things with you...tell them, Ohhhh darn, we have plans already with so and so, but how bout on this date, and keep going until you find a mutually agreeable date, but let them call you...in the meantime, don't sit around waiting for them to call...this is the only life you get, and it's your time to enjoy...one never knows how much time we have left....
and you must get your husband to understand, he must stop depending on your son and dil for happiness...it is the hardest thing to do, but it is a must...we must adapt to and move on....

and yanno, once you start doing that, everything else stranegly starts falling into place...

it's the old human desire, of wanting what we want, when we want it...and when we let go, that is acceptance and allowance, which brings us peace...tranquility, and then everything else starts falling into place....

and Pen, your lucky you have a hubby to do things with...I have no one, no son, no grandchild, no dil, no husband...but having no husband is by my choice....I fear another relationship...and do enjoy my independence....but when you get to feeling down, b/c it's just you and hubby, thank God you have him....to do things with....to share life with...

and just another note....next time you don't understand your DIL's idea of family...know this....she didn't have what you had in family...she developed a whole different set of rules and culture from her parents, or whoever her role models were, it's all she knows...it's no excuse to treat people so unjustly, but it's all she knows...anything else doesn't feel right to her...she is unable to see your point of view, only her own...

does that make any sense?

Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cremebrulee on February 16, 2010, 09:30:59 am
Quote from: cocobars on February 16, 2010, 08:53:07 am
Creme,
You have to understand that even as a DIL, I believe you were very understanding.  You gave everything to your IL's, to the point of having no personal time.  This speaks volumes about what kind of an understanding and caring person you are proving to be on this site alone.  I'm not sure I would have been able to give that much to my IL's, and even with your assumption that you be available to "what came up" with your husbands family, if that were me - I would have had to opt out - even if occasionally.  LOL! 

Pen,
You are NOT whining.  Anyone would feel that way in your shoes.  You are riding in the "trunk," without the consideration of even being given the "back seat" (see Sassy's post on back seats)!

There may be no right or wrong when it comes to IL's.  Just understanding.  When that understanding becomes one-sided, it's just "all wrong." 

Feel that?  It's me hugging you both!!


thanks for the hugs hun, greatly appreciate...however, please don't give me credit where credit is not due...I will honestly say, I was a very unhappy DIL which helped to cause problems with our marriage...however, it wasn't because his mother was a pain in the butt...it was b/c I didn't know how to say no....and set limits and boundaries...b/c I feared hurting her feelings...however, if I had sat down and talked to her...she may have taken offense at first, but I believe  when she thought about it later, she would understand....

and believe me, if a MIL/DIL is sensible and wanting a relationship with us, they will try and understand, and view an issue from her DIL's/MIL's perspective...

People who are good natured, and possess a desire to get along with others, do not cut themselves or they're loved ones off from family....
a loving caring understanding and mature person would not do that...

lets face it, in all walks of life, , there are just times when it's better to suck it up and do something for others, instead of for ourselves all the time...which is a concept my DIL, and many other family members here do not know anything about...but cha know, you can't win all the time, sometimes you need to step aside and allow others they're day in the sun....and when I do that, it makes me so happy...my heart sings....I dunno, maybe I'm an ol' sentimental slob, but I love nothing more, then sitting and watching people, especially when they're happy, having fun, laughing or whatever...love to be a people watcher....



Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: renny97 on February 17, 2010, 05:02:48 pm
Would it be a dealbreaker?

A friend asked to "take/drive" me to an appt. in another city, confirmed it the day before and then arrives 1/2 late with no explanation. I was talking to her answering machine stating that I was leaving. She then, shows up, and "pretends" to act like I got her invitation confused. She backs up her vehicle and says that is so I can back mine up (to drive). The only reason I accepted, was because it was an appt. that had me very nervous and the driving distance. She was hanging her head, and could barely look at me, but said, sorry for the confusion.???? So, I gathered my wits and off we go. I was rushed now trying to make up time. I was seething, but could not let that get to me now. I should have just told her to bale and go home. I just wanted a little support, and regret ever agreeing.

This isn't the first disappointment. There is barely a friendship. It seems of convenience. But I find myself filled with anxiety around her. I caught her nosing threw my papers on my table once. We both are alone. But, I don't think I need this anymore. I think it is my time in my life to speak up. I am getting this title of doormat, or something and I don't like it.

I am going through rough times, and it didn't bother me we didn't hang out much. But, again, the little contact is just as upsetting and, is making dealing with the other matters more anxious.

I thought at times, the things she did, I overlooked, But, people mistake kindness as some kind of naviety?

It just keeps raining life here??? (metaphor)  ;) Why do people go to such extremes? Lieing? Manipulation?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 17, 2010, 06:37:03 pm
Renny, this is so disappointing and understandable.  Sometimes I think we outgrow our friends, because we may have overlooked things in the begining of those friendships that were not so attractive.  Like any relationship, when we notice that our friendships are one-sided it hurts and sometimes it's just time to move on, but sometimes it just means you need a break from eachother. 

My best friend used to have me over every night for happy hour at her house.  We would talk about our work day, children, husband, family - just every thing.  She ran low on money at one point and I brought dinner.  The next night I cooked some fried chicken, mashed potatoes, southern gravy, peas and had some carrots and dip on the side while they waited (her, her hubby and son).  When she got her paycheck she started to buy groceries and tell me she bought something she thought I might cook for them.  I didn't mind.  For awhile.  She stopped doing her dishes and cleaning her kitchen, so I had to do that first.  I finally had to put a stop to it, because I ended up coming over each night to clean and cook, while they sat at the dining table and talked to me and had happy hour!  LOL!  I never said anything to her because I didn't want to hurt her feelings.  I just stopped coming (sort of busied myself up for awhile).  The only reason I'm telling you this is that you don't have to break it off with your friend.  Sometimes taking a break is all that's necessary.  It's really up to you and how you feel about your friend. 

I can get treated like a doormat also.  Sometimes I think people mistake kindness as naivete - you may be right.  Relationships are two sided though.  I've had my best friend for 26 years now.  We've working through alot of things and sometimes the friendship benefits her- then me other times.  I almost gave up, but found out that backing off for a bit worked better.  There is no right or wrong here.  If things are one-sided though, you may have reason to think about this friendship.  It may be break-time, that's all. 

Our friends are important sources of support and understanding.  Keep this in mind.  You may just have to talk to her and let her know what you are going through and that you need her support right now.  Being stressed or exhausted puts a different perspective on your view of things. 

I hope things work out for you!  Feel this hug? :)
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 17, 2010, 08:40:56 pm
R - I feel it is important to create quality friendships. I am wiling to give a lot and bend a lot if it's a two-way street but I am not interested in spending much time with someone I don't have much in common with. I know it's a strong word...but the kind of treatment you describe is something I consider abusive. It smacks of invalidation, rejection, lack of consideration, etc. etc. Why would I ever seek that out or invest in it? If I don't respect myself, who will?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: renny97 on February 17, 2010, 08:45:53 pm
Thank you, Coco.

I do feel very vulnerable in my life. But, I didn't address a lot of issues with her because it was okay that she barely came around and without invitation or a call. But, she was always dropping in more and more. And, there is this nosy-factor. I feel like she just gathered her "news" from me. It always feels like an interview. I answer questions. But, she has no emotion. She doesn't have many other friends, nor do I. But, I was not lonely. She always says she is. I don't want someone's "pretend" concern or whatever her mission is.

She never sits down? It is this wierd stop-by "thing"? So, one time, she told me about a piece of furniture for sale by her house. So, I went later, and stopped by her house (first time in years) and asked if she would help me lift it onto vehicle--there seemed to be a problem? As if I wasn't supposed to be at her house? She showed up at any time, but this was a big deal on my part? She claims to be super religious and her actions are otherwise.

That is the other issue. She constantly pressures me to go to church. I don't go to that particular one, because of her! I feel she is hypocritical. There have been many questions I asked, and she will avoid an answer only referencing the Lord. I believe, but this seems cultish? Again, unhealthy.

She seems almost bored by some very painful things I've had to deal with lately. It is time. Some "friendships" are only for a season. She just cannot be a friend. As she always repeated, "I have to go." That is true. Yes, it seemed to be one-sided and selfish.

I thought I could put up with a few visits, but if you can't call someone and tell them "I will be late" or "I have changed my mind, I don't want to take my vehicle" and then, lies about even asking you? Wow. That is RUDE.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: renny97 on February 17, 2010, 09:00:33 pm
Thank you, Luise. And, Hug to Coco.  :)

That is what I needed to hear. I don't get much good advice or people that can give any support around me lately--until I come to WWU. I don't have any siblings. And son's family, well you know that story....So, it is me, and a few kitties and an old dog. Ah, I asked the old girl, and she just gave me the look of "kibbles, please."  ;)

Thanks, for reminding me, I cannot settle in my life.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Pen on February 17, 2010, 09:16:30 pm
Hey, Creme, thanks for your kind and thoughtful words. You make a lot of sense! And believe me, I am grateful to have a husband who wants to do things with me and who adores our DDD. That's not easy to find. And you're right about getting together with friends and not holding out for DS/DIL. They've disappointed us too many times. In fact, DH finally said that today! I think he may be coming around. He's also way ahead of me regarding envy...he just lets it go. I know there's hope for me.

Renny, I've had a "friend" who ended up taking advantage of me, too. I wasn't interested in at the beginning but she pushed and pushed until I gave in. She couldn't listen to anyone else, either. Narcissist? She suddenly quit our relationship when she made a new friend who wasn't as "depressed and needy" as I. Huh?? DH was thrilled to see her go! Now that I see this in writing I see a similarity with my relationship w/DIL.

You deserve the best! And aren't 4-legged friends the best? They put it all in perspective - it's all about the kibbles.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: renny97 on February 17, 2010, 09:39:05 pm
Quote from: penstamen on February 17, 2010, 09:16:30 pm
You deserve the best! And aren't 4-legged friends the best? They put it all in perspective - it's all about the kibbles.

:) Thank you, Pent. You are so right. I am not alone. That would make a good slogan; "It's all about the kibbles."  :) I believe the furbabies are smarter than those 2-legged ones, too.

Sooooo interesting your "friend" pushed being pals. This one, did that too. There was just nothing in common. I knew her from an old job. At first, I just thought she wanted to talk shop. But, now that I look back, I see many times she was a "promise breaker." I was looking into some info about bad relationships and they say the best way to end one is similar to the way in which it went wrong---I have to really think that over, but I never thought I'd see the day when I could really see how mean, spiteful, and downright evil people can be. I guess my question is, where does that come from? Really?

Now, I am kinda mad at myself once again, for allowing it. They say with every ending there is a new beginning and a "gift" that you are to learn from. A pattern of situations/people will keep repeating until we learn our gift/lesson. I guess I have to speak up early on...that seems to be an ongoing theme? And, people can show up but that doesn't mean they care. But, I knew that one.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 18, 2010, 02:42:06 am
Renny, it looks like you have so many negatives on your plate with this friend.  As Luise said, she may not really be a friend at all and it doesn't sound like you have any give and take.  I think I would feel uncomfortabel in my own house if someone came in, but didn't sit down, much less started rifling through things. I might be able to forgive that one, but if I showed at her house and was met with an unwelcoming attitude, that would do it for me also!  No friendship should be like that.  Sometimes they may go through periods of one-sidedness, but then come back around.  I may be wrong about this, and Luise's response makes me think twice about my friend.  Maybe I'm too forgiving.  I'm not lonely either and have to say I'm enjoying living by myself (if you call what I'm doing living alone even).  I have one daughter left, the one who says she is going to "buy me a house."  I live in an apartment in the basement of the house, but my parents are right upstairs and we go back and forth.  My father has altzheimers and is the only one who can make the stairs to come down, but is there constantly asking me things - sometimes things he already knows.  The man who was always so intelligent is suddenly not sure of himself.  It's sad.  Anyway, I don't worry too much about being "alone" either.  It's solitude and I've grown to like it!  LOL!

I'm happy to have you here Renny.  And I'm also happy you come talk to us.  It's nice to know we all have this "wise council of women" to advise and guide us, and hold us up at times.  It's nice again to be able to hold everyone else up as they need it. We get a gift from either end of this spectrum.  This is friendship in it's truest form.  The kind of friendship we all want! :)
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cremebrulee on February 18, 2010, 05:38:18 am
Quote from: renny97 on February 17, 2010, 05:02:48 pm
Would it be a dealbreaker?

A friend asked to "take/drive" me to an appt. in another city, confirmed it the day before and then arrives 1/2 late with no explanation. I was talking to her answering machine stating that I was leaving. She then, shows up, and "pretends" to act like I got her invitation confused. She backs up her vehicle and says that is so I can back mine up (to drive). The only reason I accepted, was because it was an appt. that had me very nervous and the driving distance. She was hanging her head, and could barely look at me, but said, sorry for the confusion.???? So, I gathered my wits and off we go. I was rushed now trying to make up time. I was seething, but could not let that get to me now. I should have just told her to bale and go home. I just wanted a little support, and regret ever agreeing.

This isn't the first disappointment. There is barely a friendship. It seems of convenience. But I find myself filled with anxiety around her. I caught her nosing threw my papers on my table once. We both are alone. But, I don't think I need this anymore. I think it is my time in my life to speak up. I am getting this title of doormat, or something and I don't like it.

I am going through rough times, and it didn't bother me we didn't hang out much. But, again, the little contact is just as upsetting and, is making dealing with the other matters more anxious.

I thought at times, the things she did, I overlooked, But, people mistake kindness as some kind of naviety?

It just keeps raining life here??? (metaphor)  ;) Why do people go to such extremes? Lieing? Manipulation?


Hi Pen,

there were times in my own life, I gravited towards people like this, b/c I thought "I" needed them, the fact is, they needed me and I realized this....

Stand by your personal institutions, with head held up and proudly waving....your a very significant part of this world...believe it!

YOU dear lady choose your friends don't let them choose you...and I'm going to tell you, what a woman told me along time ago...follow that little voice inside, called instinct, as it's a God Given protective mechanism, that we've all been blessed with...if you feel it's wrong, then it most likely is....

Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Pen on February 18, 2010, 07:10:33 am
Anna, best wishes to you. It does help knowing others are going through it, although I wish none of us had to. We spend all those years fighting for our kids - making sure they do their homework, etc., making sure they're safe and in some cases keeping them alive. It's what moms are 'supposed' to do. All of a sudden I'm required to shut off my feelings, quit my "job," change our holiday traditions, deal with a big change in family dynamics, accept our new status as non-entities and move on, all the while watching DIL's family take over for us. I know it's going to take time to adjust. I know I'm the one who has to adjust since I'm the one bothered by this! DIL/family and DS are not sitting home worrying about my feelings, that's for sure. Well, DS does a little, but he gets over it quickly :)

Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: renny97 on February 18, 2010, 04:52:29 pm
Quote from: cremebrulee on February 18, 2010, 05:38:18 am

....what a woman told me along time ago...follow that little voice inside, called instinct, as it's a God Given protective mechanism, that we've all been blessed with...if you feel it's wrong, then it most likely is....


Absoutely! Mine, are so powerful. I think, as you mentioned before about being a "people watcher" you observe people when they aren't aware of their body language and look of the eyes...etc.

Any time in my life, I've ever tried to ignore my instinct, no matter how wild it seemed, I found trouble in my life. I learned, not to explain to anyone about exactly why I felt as I did to every person, because it is so abstract, but yet it is deep in the gut. A few times, people would dimiss it or deny their observations or mine. But, I cannot remember the topic now, but I had admitted I was uneasy about this person because of the way they said something. My listener, thought I was totally wrong.

She ran up to me (old job?), one day and said I was right on about that person. And, all based on my observation of the way he said something..and not, even so much the content. The gut! I could have been a bit "sensitive" on that one, but I didn't ignore that signal.

For some reason, when I am vulnerable, I let too many things go. I think during this time, some people think they can take advantage.

To add to the mix, does anyone think an astrology sign plays a role in relationships?

Gemini
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 18, 2010, 10:21:30 pm
Lots of different takes on Astrology. Lots of different schools of Astrology as well as individual practitioners. One once told me that when people said, "I don't believe in Astrology" to her...she wpi;d  tell them, "That's OK...it's there whether you believe in it or not because it isn't a belief system. If you don't believe in gravity, that's OK too...just don't step out of a 20 story window."  8)

That said, yes, for me it can have a lot to do with relationships. For instance, DH's moon (emotions) is in Pisces, which is my sun or birth sign. Very handy, indeed.  ;D
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cremebrulee on February 19, 2010, 05:36:46 am
Quote from: luise.volta on February 18, 2010, 10:21:30 pm
Lots of different takes on Astrology. Lots of different schools of Astrology as well as individual practitioners. One once told me that when people said, "I don't believe in Astrology" to her...she wpi;d  tell them, "That's OK...it's there whether you believe in it or not because it isn't a belief system. If you don't believe in gravity, that's OK too...just don't step out of a 20 story window."  8)

That said, yes, for me it can have a lot to do with relationships. For instance, DH's moon (emotions) is in Pisces, which is my sun or birth sign. Very handy, indeed.  ;D


I don't know how I feel Luise...but I do know, there are gravity and electrical pulls on our entire solar system, as well as our bodies....

I don't know if you've ever heard the ol saying about a full moon....
my son is a police officer and he says it is absolutely true!  Whenever it's a full moon, there are more crimes and the hospital emergency rooms are full

I believe in other dimensions...and somehow being able to get thru them...and stories people tell of seeing ghosts, flying saucers...I believe it all has to do with energy/dimensions

I've done some research on cell memory...and it is also very interesting...for instance, it's proven, that when someone receives a heart transplant, they do notice changes in they're personalities....here is much to be said about gene memory...watch a dog and how they circle before they lay down...that is carried over from the pack, thousands of years ago, have you ever had the feeling of deja vu?  I believe it has a lot to do with gene and cell memory...

scientists have shown that a common gene variant influences memory for events in humans by altering a growth factor in the brain's memory hub. On average, people with a particular version of the gene that codes for brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) performed worse on tests of episodic memory - tasks like recalling what happened yesterday. They also showed differences in activation of the hippocampus, a brain area known to mediate memory, and signs of decreased neuronal health and interconnections.

These effects are likely traceable to limited movement and secretion of BDNF within cells, according to the study, which reveals how a gene affects the normal range of human memory, and confirms that BDNF affects human hippocampal function much as it does animals'.

Can you imagine what that translates for a cure of alzheimer's disease? 

we humans should be so much further along, regarding our intellecutal progression and capablities...technology, research, health, science...this country is so stagnated

...if you think about Newton, he's been dead for 200 years...Einstein, since 1955, and how bout Leonardo Di Vinci who sketched ideas for many inventions hundreds of years ago, and how bout all his works?  my gosh, the Eygyptians performed brain surgeries?

There is so much more out there, and yet, all society cares about is individualism...not about the effects our decissions, acts, thoughts have on the role of society, let alone our families, friends, life itself.

we continually repeat history over again...we should at this point, be beyond wars, and the people of the U.S. should have figured all this stuff out by now, but they don't? 

All this stuff we MIL's are dealing with, comes from a scientific, intellectual stand point is so non productive.  I mean, it's such a waste of time and energy and very foolish, to be acting like this

if you think about what is lost by not teaching our children from youth, about insecurity, how parenting effects a child...and carry's over old primitive thoughts, as well as capablities of thought process...how they're brains (our DIL's) are processing and feeding off of the results from they're behavior....???

we question, so much our DIL's actions towards us and the answer is, intellectually, they haven't grown...they have no idea what it's like to have stability in they're lives...how can one give what they've never known or experienced...and that is what we must change, if socity is to progress and survive...we must become more academic and teach our children to question, to go deeper into problem solving, to learn to be self sufficient...to once again, progress in science...art....research, socialization, morals, and to understand the effects we have on one another...like a trickle down effect in any decission we make...our thoughts, actions, so, effect the lives of others...
Oh, don't get me started, I could go on and on...but we as a society are primitive in our thoughts, actions, etc....

You and I, we shouldn't be experiencing this...however, our DIL's came from very dysfunctional families, with limited education...they were taught how to survive, no matter what...or who they hurt...b/c they're mothers and/or fathers, passed on, what they learned from they're parents, which isn't much...except how to be jealous, indifferent, you have to get married, so you have a man to take care of you and be a member of society...

I thought I had to be married to be successful...that was my only goal...to have children, which is all fine and good, but I so wanted more...wanted to go to college...instead, I've wasted my life, thinking this was all good enough...not knowing what was out there and reachable....the opportunities are endless!

and dealing with a DIL who is so crurel, b/c I didn't teach my son, about the effects a woman from a very bad family background could have on an entire people....I lived in such a sheltered world...everything was good, no one lied, everyone told the truth, you didn't say I love you, unless you meant it?  The world was good, people were not corrupt...sheeesh?

we should be so much further along intellectually...


so sorry for going off on a rant...just things I think about...



Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: renny97 on February 19, 2010, 09:47:39 am
That was so eye-opening and interesting.

It reminded me of when son was a teen, and we were just watching this movie and it was a girl standing and talking to her boyfriend. She was saying that she "had been abused" and that is why she needed to runaway and wanted to have her boyfriend go with her. My instincts, told me she was using this "tale" to blackmail the boyfriend to join her in some adventure. Well, it turned out it was the case.

Meanwhile, son was watching intently. I just happened to ask him whether he thought that the young girl was telling the truth. I said, "I do not." He kept watching, and he said "I think she is telling the truth." So, it is proof that son and mother can watch the same people and come away with two different perspectives. How symbolic that movie came to be! I never forgot that pivitol moment in time.

The DIL, claimed her father threw her down the stairs and called her a B* as a young girl. She said she wanted to move out and get away from him. Okay, don't shoot me here and I was totally stupid, but I allowed her to stay at our house temporarily and rent-free. Later, I realized, she was just doing that to get her "hooks" into my son. Whether the incident of abuse happened, I don't know now.

She turned immediately ungrateful, and found an apartment, and as she was leaving, she said, "I can't wait to get out of here." Son, moved in with her...mission accomplished and then, the real-life movie continued.......
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cremebrulee on February 19, 2010, 10:28:11 am
Quote from: renny97 on February 19, 2010, 09:47:39 am
That was so eye-opening and interesting.

It reminded me of when son was a teen, and we were just watching this movie and it was a girl standing and talking to her boyfriend. She was saying that she "had been abused" and that is why she needed to runaway and wanted to have her boyfriend go with her. My instincts, told me she was using this "tale" to blackmail the boyfriend to join her in some adventure. Well, it turned out it was the case.

Meanwhile, son was watching intently. I just happened to ask him whether he thought that the young girl was telling the truth. I said, "I do not." He kept watching, and he said "I think she is telling the truth." So, it is proof that son and mother can watch the same people and come away with two different perspectives. How symbolic that movie came to be! I never forgot that pivitol moment in time.

The DIL, claimed her father threw her down the stairs and called her a B* as a young girl. She said she wanted to move out and get away from him. Okay, don't shoot me here and I was totally stupid, but I allowed her to stay at our house temporarily and rent-free. Later, I realized, she was just doing that to get her "hooks" into my son. Whether the incident of abuse happened, I don't know now.

She turned immediately ungrateful, and found an apartment, and as she was leaving, she said, "I can't wait to get out of here." Son, moved in with her...mission accomplished and then, the real-life movie continued.......


Renny, hi, and hugs
listen, don't beat yourself up, I would have probably done the same thing...was always a sucker when it came to kids and helping them, the best I could, and sometimes, even when we mean well, we make mistakes....believe me, your not the only one...and you were and are not stupid...

I failed as a parent, and I'm not beating myself up here, but I made a huge mistake.  The naievity I learned and owned from my mother was passed down to my kid...and yours, and probably all the women here...

I did have one talk with him once, about watching out for woman who were looking for a free ride...it did worry me, b/c his father and grandparents are very well to do...but we never really discussed it as it being a threat or what to look for in a lifetime mate...

and the point I was trying to make above, is, in this day and age...there is no reason why our country isn't more intellectually wise...we shouldn't be having so many dysfunctional families, along with crime and drugs out there....we should be so much farther along...and I do believe when people stop thriving on gossip and all that hollywood crap, keeping up with the Jones, and doing more research, eventually, we're going to get it...but no one ever talks to kids about this stuff...no one ever talked to me about it...

I mean, we all thought Disney was reality, you fall in love, get married and live happily ever after...(yeah right) we lived a very sheltered life....

one thing....I do see more and more women realize they're potential and pursue dreams....more and more single women who now realize, you don't have to be married to be successful and society is not stressing it as much, so, in time, perhaps things will turn around....

however, yanno what really bothers me, today, in this world, with all the birth control out there, and so many young teens are still getting pregnant?????  This shouldn't be?????  Are they doing it b/c it's an out for them, like your movie you spoke of?



Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Pen on February 19, 2010, 11:10:29 am
"Are they doing it (getting pregnant) b/c it's an out for them, like your movie you spoke of?"


YES
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 19, 2010, 12:36:50 pm
"Are they doing it (getting pregnant) b/c it's an out for them, like your movie you spoke of?"


YES

We so desperately need a hero....someone kids can really look up to and aspire to be.  Other than Mom and Dad and some of their friends, heroes are few and far between. They look at movies, none there-- and that's where a lot of kids go to other than TV and their friends, who are emulating the same behavior as they see sports stars and movie stars behave. 

I wasn't alive when the phrase, "say it ain't so, Joe" was said by kids all over the country but I grew up hearing about it.  Kids had wanted to be like Joe (a player of baseball, I think).  I can't remember what he did but it really hurt kids in America.

I think they're looking for a hero.  I think kids want a reason to do good in the world.  I did.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 19, 2010, 01:26:06 pm
Oh! 
Chickie, you are so right with that comment!  We don't have the "hero's" today that we should have.  Read Creme's post from this morning, can't remember which folder, but will look it up and post it.  It wasn't regarding this subject but relates to this so well!  Basically she stated that as a society (given all the time we've had here on this planet) we should be farther along than we are.  etc. - I have to look this up and will be back to reference it here...

It's this post - reply #118.  She makes so much sense here if we just think about it! 

By the way, Creme - I was in nursing in the 70's in a hospital near where I live now.  When the moon was full we all dreaded working.  It's when we got in most of the suicides!  I'm sorry - I know that's a depressing thought, but true.  The full moon really does affect some people. 
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 19, 2010, 01:43:33 pm
my Grandmother told me something I will never forget.  "Human nature will never change"  and it hasn't.

All we can do is to try to behave like we should....we do know, all of us, what is right and what is wrong, deep down, we do.

If you had parents who raised you right, be thankful, you won't have to emulate the behavior of celebrities.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: renny97 on February 19, 2010, 01:55:54 pm
Coco, when you bring up the full moon theory, it reminded me of the
X-"friend."

We just got back from ME driving to my "nervous" appt...and she asked me if I saw the moon the other night? I did remember. I thought it was so unusual, brighter, and larger than I'd ever seen. I don't know why? So, anyways, she continues that she thought it "was beautiful." I said it was cool-looking but, did look scary, though. Bad things, happen during a full moon. She said, "And, you believe all that?" I said, "I sure do."

So, while she is getting out of my vehicle, she drops her "doggie box" from a restaurant we had stopped at! The pork plopped out and landed inside the vehicle on the middle of console. I said, "See, that's what happens around a full moon!" "Bad things happen." She looked shaken and that "gotcha-look". Her real self was coming out and she got nervous. Then, she kept muttering, while I went inside to get a napkin...the dog got the rest.  ;D
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 19, 2010, 01:59:41 pm
LOL!  It's a good thing you have a dog, Renny!  At least that one didn't go to waste!

I hope today is better for you!  It is for me (my bad day being the day before)!  When was the full moon?  Maybe that had something to do with our feelings?
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 19, 2010, 02:02:14 pm
I haven't had a chance to catch up on this post.  It looks like you were busy today!  I'm having my DD/her BF, DS, nuther DD, GC for dinner tonight.  I will check back in later on this post!  Look interesting! ;D

I hope you have all had a good day!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: 2chickiebaby on February 19, 2010, 02:39:14 pm
I'm so happy for you, Coco!! :)
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: luise.volta on February 19, 2010, 05:59:11 pm
Feel better, C/?. ;D 
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 19, 2010, 06:02:46 pm
Chickie, you are the sweetest thing!  Thank you! 

We had a big dinner that I was preparing for all day.  My son and one DD lives with me, so do my parents, so really the only guests we had was the other older twin daughter and her BF.  They asked for the menu last week and I had it ready for them.  Enchilada's, spanish rice, refried beans, salad, and home-made banana bread for desert.  I'm stuffed, and they left - stuffed too and  took some leftovers.  It looks like you had a slow night here!  I guess that's a good thing sometimes.  No news is good news I hope!

I'm glad to sit down for awhile now.  Hello Wise Women!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 19, 2010, 06:04:53 pm
Quote from: luise.volta on February 19, 2010, 05:59:11 pm
Feel better, C/?. ;D

I do.  We had fun!  My daughter's BF said something sweet!  He was telling my daughter how much he loved her and was going on and  on, and then he said, "but my tummy is in love with your mom!"  It was nice! ;D  Makes me like him more...
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 19, 2010, 06:06:05 pm
Oh!  This wasn't the daughter I've had problems with - she wasn't here.  She's my oldest daughter (I have three daughters and a son).
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Marilyn on February 19, 2010, 06:09:12 pm
How awesome Coco,sounds like you really had a great evening.Your daughters BF sounds like a keeper!!!! ;)
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 19, 2010, 06:11:32 pm
Yes, I think he is and he treats her so well!  It would be nice to see her happy.  I'm crossing my fingers.

Thank you Mominwaiting!  I had a wonderful night with them!  GS is going to sleep.  Precious!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Marilyn on February 19, 2010, 06:23:49 pm
AW!!! GS yes, they are so precious!!!
You have so much to be grateful for Coco.I know your oldest daughter still cause's you a lot of pain.But i think after you write the letter,you will be able to have some peice of mind.
You know and God knows whats in your heart,and thats all that really matters.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 19, 2010, 06:27:27 pm
Mominwaiting, thank you for saying that!  You are right and I know God will work things out if they were meant to be.  I talked to the kids about it tonight.  They don't know if she is reachable, but will pass the letter to her when her hubby isn't there.  I feel sneaky, but if he is behind this, then I also need to find a way of getting to talk to her without him knowing.

I really appreciated your suggestion.  Isn't it funny how we don't think of the simplest things when it comes to our own situations?

Bless you Mominwaiting!  It was an important message for me! :)
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Marilyn on February 19, 2010, 06:48:48 pm
Coco,i went to counseling 5yrs ago,when my son stopped talking to me.She told me to write him a letter,but not mail it to the house.So i ask her if i could mail it to my youngest son and have him give it to him.She said yes,that way you know he got it.If i mailed it to the house,we both were afraid he wouldn't get it.
The letter worked!!! he called and apologised,said he wanted a new start.But things aren't very good still,but at least we are talking....just walking on egg shells all the time.....the little time we have together.

Don't feel like your being sneeky,i know how you feel i did to,but i'm so glad i did write it.
Make sure you make a copy for your self.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 19, 2010, 07:00:47 pm
You're right, even if it works out, I'll be walking on egg shells.  We talked about that tonight.  I'll even be "talking" on egg shells in the letter.  I don't want to make her mad.  It's a hard letter to write, but I have until the end of March to do it.

I checked out Dr. Phil's site, but have no sound on my computer right now :-\ 

I'm waiting until my daughter goes to bed, and using hers! ;D
She sit's next to me (we have separate computer stations), but she's still using it.  She says she is tired and is going to bed soon!  Bingo! ;D

Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 19, 2010, 07:08:57 pm
By the way, Mominwaiting, it doesn't matter where you got the idea for the letter from.  The fact that you thought of it was priceless.  You truly belong to this group of wise women here!

I appreciate your compassion and your thoughtfulness!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Marilyn on February 19, 2010, 07:10:54 pm
Coco, just start writing.......you will rewrite it several times,before you will feel good about it.Just don't say any thing negative about your ex and his new wife.They will use it against you.
Just remember,if your daughter doesn't respond,it's because of foolish pride.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 19, 2010, 07:13:32 pm
Thank you. :(  I'm nervous, but I know I'll do it, and have no doubts it will take more than one draft!  LOL!

You deserve such a big hug!  You feel that?  It's me hugging you!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Marilyn on February 19, 2010, 07:17:54 pm
Thank you Coco,i love being a part of this group!!!!
I really have not had one bad day since i found all you wonderful ladies.
I just some times read things,and get so teary eyed and emotional.I have to walk away and come back,i feel the pain every one is going thru.
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Marilyn on February 19, 2010, 07:20:10 pm
And thank you for the hug!!!
Yes, i feel it.

your so sweet Coco!!
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 19, 2010, 07:21:51 pm
I know how you feel, Mominwaiting.  I go through it here too, and my elderly parents probably think I'm depressed!  It seems whenever my father walks in, I am in tears over something here.  Sometimes happy tears, and then sad tears, but tears nonetheless!  LOL! 

I have not felt this good in a long time though.  This site, Luise, Chickie, and all the wonderful human beings here are very healing.  Just knowing I'm not alone and that someone understands and loves me anyway!

What more can you ask for! :)
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: Marilyn on February 19, 2010, 07:26:40 pm
I agree,just knowing we are not alone,makes such a big difference!!!!

Well,i'm going to log off for now,Talk to you tomorrow ;D
Title: Re: Controlling People
Post by: cocobars on February 19, 2010, 07:29:01 pm
Thanks Mominwaiting!  For such a sweet talk!

I'm going to Dr. Phil's website...