WiseWomenUnite.com

Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: wendy63 on October 08, 2011, 04:41:06 am

Title: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: wendy63 on October 08, 2011, 04:41:06 am
When son got married we bought house for them to live in.  paid all bills for 9 years
they took over the bills and the mortgage.  Mortgage in our names and we sold house now
daughter in law says this money is hers.  Won;t let me see grandkids until we give her
her money.  All we have been doing is giving them everything for 9 years , we are meeting today
what should i say to her
Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: lancaster lady on October 08, 2011, 04:48:46 am
Hi Wendy and welcome ....
how long did they pay the mortgage for ?
Perhaps you could offer a fair percentage based on their share of what they paid towards the house .
does that seem fair to you ?
Certainly the lions share is yours , don't be blackmailed over your grandchildren .
good Luck .
Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: wendy63 on October 08, 2011, 05:49:50 am
They lived in the house for 9 years, thanks for your idea.  All they paid was the mortgage i paid all the bills for 7 of these nine years, all they had to do was look after the mortgage payment which wasn't very much.  She thinks she should get it all.  I miss the kids cause i used to get them at least three times a month for the weekend.  She is blackmailing me, we are meeting today but I don't know really what we are going to say, without her storming out.  I;ve already given them 15,000 and would give them more if they are going to buy a home.  My parents didn't ever have any money to hand over what is with this generation of children who want a silver spoon.  Not too many newly weds get a house to live in, guess she thought it was hers.  any ideas
Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: lancaster lady on October 08, 2011, 06:08:51 am
Wow ......is that a lump some ? If so I think that is ample .What is your son saying ? Not much by the sound of things .  I agree about some of the younger generation, they want it all even before we die ! Stick to your.guns and let them make their own way , you've done your bit .
Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: wendy63 on October 08, 2011, 06:10:39 am
do you think we should go and meet with them and discuss this.  I miss the kids.
Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: Orly on October 08, 2011, 06:32:46 am
Would you give part of your money from the sale of your house to a renter?  NO you wouldn't.   In fact, you would probably laugh in their faces if they suggested it. Your son and daughter-in-law (even though they were paying the mortgage) were renters in your house.  Now they are finding out just how much they have to pay on an open market.  It also sounds like it is past time for them to grow up and handle their own living arrangements....without hand-outs.

Where is your son in this hold-up/blackmail scheme?  If he is in on the withdrawal of your grand children for money plan, you may have to bite the bullet and not see your grandkidlets.  If YOU decide to fork the money over now, you might as well roll over and become their slave/bank/indentured servant until the day you die.  You better plan on never getting ill or needing aid in any way either...because if you give them the money now and then need it yourself later, I sincerely doubt if they will remember the help they did get from you.  I don't see them stepping up and being there for you.
Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: amflautist on October 08, 2011, 07:18:22 am
Uh-oh.  You have some work to do before that meeting.  You need to have all these things figured out.
1. Downpayment on house
2. Closing costs, etc.
4. Taxes for 9 years
5. Upkeep for 9 years
6. ALL the money you paid for son and DIL living expenses for 9 years
7. Insurance for 9 years.

Sum this all up and multiply by 1/2 of the interest rate on the mortgage. 
This was your investment.  This is how much money you would now have in your retirement fund if you had put your money where you should have put it.

If your son and DIL are willing to give you all this money back, perhaps you could consider sharing the profit on the house.

Let's say that your investment was I.

Your profit on the house equals
Original price of house 9 years ago = OP
Selling price of house when you sold it = SP
Amount you had to pay the realtor for the sale + all other closing fees = R

SO - your profit on the house is OP - SP - R - I = profit.

I'm going to bet that this is a negative number!!!!!  I am pretty sure you LOST money on this deal.

If I were you, I would hire a financial consultant or an attorney to figure your profit and to put it in writing.  IF your profit is > $0, it is up to you whether or not you wish to share that profit with your son and his family.

Please, please do the math.  Please, please if you are not financially astute, hire someone to do the math.

MONEY is the one thing that can kill family relationships.  I am 100% sure that in this case, you took a shellacking and that your son OWES YOU.  Please prove it to him, and prove it to yourself!!!





Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: Doe on October 08, 2011, 07:23:21 am
Hi Wendy-

Well, you know it's ransom money.  How much do you want to see the kids? 

It's not clear to me - where they considered co-investors by paying the mortgage or were they renters?



Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: Pooh on October 08, 2011, 07:30:05 am
Welcome Wendy.  Please take a few minutes to read our Forum Agreement and How This Happened under Open Me First.  Nothing wrong with your post, we just ask all new members to do it to understand how it works around here.

I totally agree with Orly.  If you give in to their demands, and yes, it is not DILs demands...it is THEIR demands if DS is going with it, you will be giving in to them forever.  Someone that uses blackmail will continue if you give in.  I know it stinks because of the GC, but don't do it.

I'm also with the other ladies.  Figure out everything you spent, subtract that from the profit and if there is anything left, give them a  percentage of it for paying the mortgage.  I would give them a percentage based on what you spent every month versus them if you want to be fair.  But if you paid everything on the house for 9 years before, I can't imagine there will be anything left over to split.

If you give in to a demand like this, you are setting yourself up to always give in.  Next time it will be "Hey, buy us a car or you don't see the GC".  And remember, if DS is going along with this...he is no better than DIL. 
Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: amflautist on October 08, 2011, 07:32:40 am
I didn't explain the multiplication by the mortgage interest rate correctly.
Sum up all the costs 1-7.  Let's say the sum was S.
Multiply S by 1+ir/2, where ir = interest rate expressed as a fraction.  In other words, if you had a 6^ mortgage, multiply as follows:

     I = (1 + 9*ir/2)S = (1 + 9*.06/2)S.

The 9*.06/2 is the approximate amount your sum S would have grown if you were stuffing it into a bank account that yielded ir% (6%).  If you wish, you can use a lower amount, i.e. whatever interest your bank or saving vehicle would have been paying on your retirement money.

Your future relationship with your son depends on getting this done correctly.  Hire a financial advisor.  In many communities, you could get this help for free.

Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: Doe on October 08, 2011, 07:55:49 am
I do agree this is wrong for the DIL to use the kids as bargaining tools but the situation is a little confusing to me.  Was anything spelled out in the beginning?  Anything put into writing?

If the payment of bills was a gift all this time, then I don't think that should be part of the equation.  Just kick yourself for doing it, but you can't give the gifts then blame them for taking them. It's like giving a drink to a drunk then blaming him for taking it.  Each side is responsible.   I hope you'll stop with the big $$ gifts, though.

Has the payment of the bills been an ongoing ransom payment to see the kids?   





Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: wendy63 on October 08, 2011, 08:05:03 am
thank you all for your advice , it is very much appreciated and will take heed to what you all have said.  I am always giving and they do always take but will keep you updated if we solve our delima. 
Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: orphanedmominmn on October 08, 2011, 08:14:07 am
I read this here a lot -- our kids EXPECT money from us. And if we don't give it to them, they withhold from us -- either themselves or their children (our precious grandchildren). My parents have given us money over the years -- very generous gifts. But my relationship with them, or their relationship with my son, would not have been different if they never had done that or if they did it more frequently. It seems to me that love was replaced with money. And I hate it.
Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: forever spring on October 08, 2011, 08:37:53 am
Quote from: amflautist on October 08, 2011, 07:18:22 am
Uh-oh.  You have some work to do before that meeting.  You need to have all these things figured out.
1. Downpayment on house
2. Closing costs, etc.
4. Taxes for 9 years
5. Upkeep for 9 years
6. ALL the money you paid for son and DIL living expenses for 9 years
7. Insurance for 9 years.

Sum this all up and multiply by 1/2 of the interest rate on the mortgage. 
This was your investment.  This is how much money you would now have in your retirement fund if you had put your money where you should have put it.

If your son and DIL are willing to give you all this money back, perhaps you could consider sharing the profit on the house.

Let's say that your investment was I.

Your profit on the house equals
Original price of house 9 years ago = OP
Selling price of house when you sold it = SP
Amount you had to pay the realtor for the sale + all other closing fees = R

SO - your profit on the house is OP - SP - R - I = profit.

I'm going to bet that this is a negative number!!!!!  I am pretty sure you LOST money on this deal.

If I were you, I would hire a financial consultant or an attorney to figure your profit and to put it in writing.  IF your profit is > $0, it is up to you whether or not you wish to share that profit with your son and his family.

Please, please do the math.  Please, please if you are not financially astute, hire someone to do the math.

MONEY is the one thing that can kill family relationships.  I am 100% sure that in this case, you took a shellacking and that your son OWES YOU.  Please prove it to him, and prove it to yourself!!!


I'm with amflautist all the way here. DO YOUR MATHS, get an expert to do it for you if you cannot. You need to have figures.
Divide the emotional (threat to not see the GK) with the practical. They are two different things. And where is your DS in all of this? Really sorry you have to go through this.
We gave our DS a tidy sum for a new house and all we got as a gesture of thanks from DIL was a short txt. Well we didn't mind doing it because it meant loss of stress for them and we are glad we could do it but a heartfelt thankyou would have been sooooooooooo nice!
Good luck to you and stay strong and determined. I'm sure in the long run they will respect you for it.
Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: pam1 on October 08, 2011, 08:51:53 am
Welcome Wendy :)

I'm also with amflautist, do the math or even better, hire a financial expert to sort it all out.  There's more to owning a home than just the mortgage payment. 

I can also see how they might think there was more to the deal, it's simplistic and them being young, I can see how they would think they were renting to own.  Not that they are in the right at all.

Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: Shelby on October 08, 2011, 09:19:52 am
You say mortgage was in your name.  How about title to the house?  Was it titled in your name or theirs?  That is key.  I agree with everyone else, you should hire someone to help you do the math.  Your accountant who prepares your taxes?  I would suggest a lawyer - but you don't want this to turn even more adversarial than it already is.  Perhaps your county bar association could suggest someone who specializes in mediation?  If you know good thereapists, they might be able to mediate.  But mediation only works if both sides want it.

I'd be reluctant to have meetings with them until you have your facts down pat.  I am fuzzy on your facts.  If you want to go into detail on this forum about

How much was down payment, and in what year?  And what was source of that $$
How much were taxes each year, and who paid for those?
How much was insurance each year and who paid?
How much were repairs each year and who paid?
Did they pay anything at all the first several years?  What did they pay each year?
When did they start paying anything, and what did they pay? and how much?
When they started paying something, did you still pay anything?  If so, what and how much?

You said -- "All they paid was the mortgage i paid all the bills for 7 of these nine years" -

What do you mean by "all the bills" ?    Do you mean just house related bills like taxes, insurance, repairs?  Or do you mean groceries, shoes, clothing, gasoline?   Or the fuzzy in-between category of utilities? 

Need details and clarification.  There are many WW on this forum.  If you want to share math details, we could probably give you lots of perspectives.   But you have to start with the math.  And answers to all of the above questions.  You will need to have all that data before a hired expert can help you, anyway.   Keep in touch - but don't rush off to any meetings.  You're not prepared yet.


Title: Re: daughter in law won't let me see grandkids
Post by: Shelby on October 08, 2011, 09:40:06 am
Other information that would be helpful?   
Amount of monthly payment they did make.
What portion of that was interest and what portion was principal?  The interest is for the "use of the money"   The money loaned was used to buy the house.  they had the use of the house.  Amortization is the principal reduction.  It would be interesting to see the total amortization covered by their principal payments.  Probably not much.  That is really their only net contribution to the purchase of the house.

Another question.   WHY did you pay for everything for *9* years.  That's an awfully long time.  Were they very young and in school?  Need background there. 

I wish Amflautist lived in your city.  She sounds like she has just the right kind of skills to help figure this out.  Amflautist - your formulas might be a little confusing to anyone without your high-level analytical skills - but I think if Wendy gives us all the information we could all help with the math.  And gee, we do love to give advice, don't we? :)