I formerly stayed with my 2 grandchildren a few evenings per week. My daughter has class, and my SIL is working. Over a year ago, my grandson showed me marks on his butt and thighs where he said his Dad had hit him with a belt. He and his sister said he does it to both of them as punishment, frequently for minor offenses. In addition, SIL's father hits them with a belt, too. I called my daughter about it, and also spoke to my SIL about it. A couple weeks ago, the belt situation was mentioned again. He had paddled my grandson with it 2 nights previously. I had been under the impression that it wasn't going on anymore. Not true, they had been told not to mention it to me. This time, I told them both they need to tell their teacher if it happens again because they have mandated reporting. I worried if I called DCFS and they showed up at their home that the kids would be too intimidated to tell the truth. My grandson told his Dad after I left that Grandma had told him to tell his teacher if he ever hit him with a belt again. SIL was furious, and my daughter was angry, too. He did tell the school about it the next day. Since then, my daughter has not spoken to me. I'm no longer allowed to babysit or see my grandkids. They either stay for an after school program (which is good) or their other grandparents keep them (bad). My SIL's parents, as my daughter has said, "beat the hell out of him" when he was a child. My ex-husband, daughter's father, is an alcoholic. I called him about the situation, and he told me that "It's not illegal, and it will make a man out of him." He was far from sober at the time. My daughter was not raised like that, I don't believe in spanking a child. I am afraid my grandkids will think I have abandoned them. They are 10 and 8 years old. I have no way of knowing if they are still using that form of punishment, but my son-in-law sent me an email that said "Corporal punishment is legal in all 50 states" and said he would do as he saw fit. The school cannot tell me anything, due to confidentiality. It breaks my heart. Is there any hope in this situation? What can I do to repair my relationship with my daughter and grandchildren? I have always been fond of my SIL, as I knew he had a rough time growing up. He seems to be emulating his parents, though, and I've lost all respect for him. How can I protect my grandchildren? Please advise.
I would call DCFS (is that child/youth services?) to see if they have an ongoing investigation. The kids need to be removed from that home. They are being abused. Children will always stick up for the parents, so don't be alarmed if they do that this time. Save all of your emails from your son in law. They are proof of what's going on. You could show a social worker/police. But save them. When they stay with other grandparents, are they abusing them? They've been abusive in the past. Maybe go to the police as well, see what they say. As far as talking with ex-husband, I would just stop. You can't reason with drunk people. Please give us an update, I'm thinking of you. You are a hero to help your grandkids, no matter what happens, just don't let them live like that. Good luck.
I'm pretty sure he'd be arrested for that if he did that in public, even if it is legal. I would call DCFS as well, particularly if they are leaving welts and marks. Children don't need that level of punishment, ever. The times have changed; it was okay for me to get the belt growing up, but it's not okay now. That's a change that I can live with.
I know it can't be easy, but you do have our support. I would make sure that I explained what the other GPs were doing too when I called, since it is likely worse when the children are with them. Good luck to you. This must be just awful for you.
That's a very tough situation for you to be in ((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))
There is such a fine line between discipline and abuse. Your grandchildren asked you for help, you should call DCFS so they can look into it. Tell them what your grandson told you-- that he showed you the bruises, you talked to SIL about it, and that the GCs were told to never discuss it with you again.
That being said. I DO believe in spanking as a form of discipline, and I do not think it is the government or any other legal body's right to tell me how I can or cannot discipline my children. But one should never ever spank a child when they are angry because then it crosses the line to abuse.
My prayers are with you and your family. (((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))
It is an offence here in the UK to strike a child . If you call the authorities wil they be taken into care? Would you want that? I know they need to be safe but its very traumatic for children to be whisked away to a strange place . As they have asked for your help they must be desperate .....here we have a citizens advice bureau to go for help Do you have something there ?
Quote from: fordellcastle on March 09, 2011, 07:54:52 PM
They are 10 and 8 years old. I have no way of knowing if they are still using that form of punishment, but my son-in-law sent me an email that said "Corporal punishment is legal in all 50 states" and said he would do as he saw fit.
It's wonderful to know that child abuse is illegal in all 50 states as well. Accept the fact that you can not intervene to help protect your grandchildren while at the same time continue to have the relationship you did with the family. If this proves to be abuse then the grandchildren will know that you did not abandon them when the abuse is stopped. Hopefully your gc will continue to confide with counselors at the school. As others have said, go to the authorities and to family services... keep any and all correspondence between you and the family. But be realistic concerning what can/will be done.
Outside of our opinions, there is little else that we can offer at this site. You and your grandchildren need real help, I hope you realize that and move forward. Be prepared for your dd to never accept your concerns as she could either be a part of the problem or being abused herself.... if she has not led you to believe that she is in fear then I'd have to go with the fact that if the law goes after him, they need to go after her as well.
Thank you for the advice. I have called DCFS to ask if they had an ongoing investigation, but was told it is confidential. I know the school told me when I called after my gs reported it that they do indeed have mandated reporting. Again, though, I was told it is confidential. I've made an appointment for counseling here for myself, because I'm having trouble coping with this hornet's nest I seem to have stirred up. I've asked my sister, their grandaunt, to take them to the movies. I'm buying the tickets and treats, hoping they may confide in her and to let them know I love them dearly and miss them very much. My sister telephoned my daughter, but did not let on that she was aware of this situation. I will keep you updated. I'm glad I found this forum-it is good to know I'm not alone in problems with my adult child.
You didn't stir up this hornet's nest. In fact, you did the right thing.
I know it's not easy that your DD doesn't agree, but you know what? The safety of young children is at stake here. That trumps all. In that respect, you're being the best mom out there, whether DD knows it or not.
Be very careful about going through other people to get at your GCs. You have violated a trust here, and by going around your DD to even send messages to your GCs, you are not respecting the boundaries your DD has put down, which is going to do nothing to rebuild that trust.
I am not saying that what you did was wrong or that you shouldn't have done it, but you have to look at your DD's side of this, and how she will perceive your actions. Your future relationship with her and your GC depend on you doing this.
I was punished with a belt when I was a child and it did me no lasting damage. I preferred the belt over the interminable lectures for which we had to stand still and look my D in eye the entire time. D never did it out of anger and he never once left welts. Even so, I never once took a belt to my children. Oh, I did give them a whack with my hand on the bottom every now and then, but it was a "pay attention" sort of thing, not a pain thing, when they were doing something dangerous like trying to put a knife in an electrical outlet. It happened so seldom that it did get their attention.
I was shocked to get a phone call from my DS's middle school principle to inform me that he had spanked my son. The vice-principle was out of town for two weeks and during that time, more boys got spanked than had been spanked in the 5 previous years. DH was so angry I had to take his keys away so he wouldn't drive to the school to give the principle a taste of his own medicine. It seems that here in Indiana, corporal punishment in schools is legal. If you don't want your child spanked, you have to have a letter on file stating that you do not give permission for corporal punishment to be used on your child. We immediately put a letter on file for each of our children, wrote a letter to the Editor of our local newspaper, and talked to the superintendent. If you have a child in school, please research this issue, or you might just get the same kind of call.
So, I don't think what you would like to happen is going to happen. The CPS is so overloaded, depending on where you live, a case like this where it is just a belt on the behind occasionally isn't going to be on the top of their priority list. Unfortunately, the only thing you might have accomplished is getting everyone angry with you. So, walk lightly here and do whatever you need to do to get back in your DD's good graces. Obviously your SIL and DD should take some parenting classes and maybe SIL should take an anger management class. Either way, there is really nothing more you can do, but be there for your GCs should you be allowed back in their lives.
Quote from: justus on March 10, 2011, 09:15:47 AM
CPS is so overloaded, depending on where you live, a case like this where it is just a belt on the behind occasionally isn't going to be on the top of their priority list. Unfortunately, the only thing you might have accomplished is getting everyone angry with you. So, walk lightly here and do whatever you need to do to get back in your DD's good graces. Obviously your SIL and DD should take some parenting classes and maybe SIL should take an anger management class. Either way, there is really nothing more you can do, but be there for your GCs should you be allowed back in their lives.
No, I don't think getting everyone angry was the only thing accomplished here, and if DD is mad, really, so what? She should be angry that her children are being belted to the point of remaining injury.
I believe the welts, bruises and the possible amount of the belt use will determine whether or not this needs further attention...which is why CPS was called. That makes a lot of sense to me. Depending on your state, and the nature of the call from the school, CPS absolutely will investigate this; they just investigated my aunt b/c someone notified them that she smoked pot in the past month. The children have also complained about the belt use, which means that there is probably more than just a little damage that has been done. Between the concerned GP, the school's interaction with the children and the school's contact with CPS, I think this would escalate the priority of this case.
I personally wouldn't be concerned about being in my DD's good graces if I thought she was possibly hiding child abuse. And, even if CPS was too overloaded, at least I would have fought for my GKs safety; and you can bet I'd keep calling them if I suspected more abuse followed.
The number one priority here are those children !! Full stop !!
I would hate to tell you what I would do in the same circumstances .
If I thought for one moment that my own daughter would condone this treatment of her own children
I would be shocked .
The more that the GM can do to stop this abusive treatment the better ! And quickly !
A smack on the leg is completely different from being beaten with a belt .!!
I'm with you Holli .How can anyone walk lightly when two children re being abused !
Quote from: justus on March 10, 2011, 09:15:47 AM
I was punished with a belt when I was a child and it did me no lasting damage. I
I too was spanked as a child. (Wooden paddle not a belt). It didn't do me any lasting harm either. As far as the GC's complaining about it. Well, they are children, discipline is never pleasant, so of course they will complain. I do hope that CPS does look into this to make sure it is not abuse, but it is also no one else's place to tell you how or how not to discipline your children.
There have been cases when a child has screamed abuse because... wait for it.... their parents took away their ipod as a punishment. As I said before, the line between the two is a very thin one. Bruises on a little one's bottom doesn't immediately make me think abuse. If the child doesn't like being punished they will fight back, which can result in the spanking hitting them a little above (lower back) or below (thighs) their bottom.
I'm sure I am in the minority in this day and age that advocates spanking, but I do not enjoy seeing children running around screaming with absolutely no discipline or respect for those around them.
Sorry Anon ...I raised three children and never hit them once !
They are all now respectable adults with university degrees and responsible jobs .
I bet when they all have children ,they won't raise their hands either .
Violence leads to violence ...... to bruise a childs bottom requires quite a hard smack .
I hope you ARE in the minority that advocates spanking children .
ADil,
Isn't that the point of getting CPS involved? Let the authorities figure out what is going on and what is not going on.
Not spanking =/= no discipline or lack of respect. I don't advocate telling parents how to discipline their children, but *most* kids do not just normally "cry wolf." And, it's been confirmed by the SIL that there has been belting going on, as well as a pattern of abuse in his family, so I don't see where the wolf cry is in this scenario.
CPS will not just go in and take children away if they investigate and feel that the children are in no danger, but really, they would have a much better idea of what is going on here than any of us (with the exception of the OP).
I'm sorry that you & your gc are going through this, fordellcastle. Years ago, I reported a family member's bf for molestation of dc. CPS placed the dc in foster care. The relative had to go through counseling, etc. before dc were sent home. It was more involved than I was prepared for, but I still don't know a better alternative. Given the same set of circumstances, the one thing I would have done differently would be to call or have someone else to call CPS anonymously.
My siblings & I were whipped with a belt, which left whelps. About the only thing it taught us was to fear df. If they don't already, fordellcastle, rest assured, they will learn to walk softly & steer clear of df. Your sil's boasting that no one can stop him troubles me. Emotionally, what message must that send dc? If nothing else, sil knows that people are watching now. I would think being on their records at school would follow them, even if they changed schools. That's not a bad thing...
I get what you're saying Adil. Just know that it doesn't always bring the outcome you have in mind. While I did all right, it taught some siblings to be sneaky & lie, which only lead to bigger problems for them & dp's. You just never know where that fine line is.
Quote from: fordellcastle on March 10, 2011, 07:55:55 AM
Thank you for the advice. I have called DCFS to ask if they had an ongoing investigation, but was told it is confidential.
You can bet that the school reported it. They're required to...
Rose,
I can't imagine how hard that was to do, but I have no doubt you did the right thing.
I too, was belted, and I can say it changed my behavior when I was around my dad, but not my behavior when I wasn't. I was very afraid of him until I got to be 11 and too old for hitting, according to him. That started my period of discipline, I think. It helped us built a certain amount of trust and it taught me to think about my actions all the time, not just when he was around.
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on March 10, 2011, 10:56:55 AM
Quote from: justus on March 10, 2011, 09:15:47 AM
Bruises on a little one's bottom doesn't immediately make me think abuse. If the child doesn't like being punished they will fight back, which can result in the spanking hitting them a little above (lower back) or below (thighs) their bottom.
ADil,
Can you tell me what your definition of abuse is if a physical altercation between child and parent and bruising on the bottom is not?
Quote from: holliberri on March 10, 2011, 11:45:09 AM
Rose,
I can't imagine how hard that was to do, but I have no doubt you did the right thing.
I too, was belted, and I can say it changed my behavior when I was around my dad, but not my behavior when I wasn't. I was very afraid of him until I got to be 11 and too old for hitting, according to him. That started my period of discipline, I think. It helped us built a certain amount of trust and it taught me to think about my actions all the time, not just when he was around.
My being the one who reported it allowed for a better exchange between dm & dc, while dc were in foster care. But I think calling anonymously is the better route. It may have kept fordellcastle off the hot seat. I felt I had no alternative. I couldn't have slept or faced myself in the mirror if I hadn't placed that call. Remember that, fordellcastle, whenever the going gets rough.
I meant that the sneaking & lying were for df's behalf. It taught us to roll up our skirts "after" we'd left the house & some lied about where they'd been or with who. if you know what's coming, you learn what not to do...
Quote from: holliberri on March 10, 2011, 11:49:37 AM
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on March 10, 2011, 10:56:55 AM
Quote from: justus on March 10, 2011, 09:15:47 AM
Bruises on a little one's bottom doesn't immediately make me think abuse. If the child doesn't like being punished they will fight back, which can result in the spanking hitting them a little above (lower back) or below (thighs) their bottom.
ADil,
Can you tell me what your definition of abuse is if a physical altercation between child and parent and bruising on the bottom is not?
As I said before, there is a thin line between abuse and discipline. When you discipline a child, you are doing so out of love. "Whom the Lord loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives." Hebrews 12:6... As a Christian, it is my responsibility to raise my children in a manner that is pleasing to the Lord. And that means discipline.
When you abuse a child on the other hand, it is done out of anger. In the words of Yoda "Anger leads to pain, pain leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering." It is very damaging to a child when they are "disciplined" out of anger.
So, I guess I draw the line in the parents attitude. Is he/she angry at the time of punishment? If so, then it is abuse. If not, then it is discipline, regardless of the consequences of the discipline technique.
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on March 10, 2011, 12:26:04 PM
Quote from: holliberri on March 10, 2011, 11:49:37 AM
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on March 10, 2011, 10:56:55 AM
Quote from: justus on March 10, 2011, 09:15:47 AM
.So, I guess I draw the line in the parents attitude. Is he/she angry at the time of punishment? If so, then it is abuse. If not, then it is discipline, regardless of the consequences of the discipline technique.
A broken arm given out of discipline is completely different than one out of anger?
There are many other forms of discipline than hitting, spanking and bruising.
And I'm not even saying this as someone who is 100% against corporal punishment. I am just very confused as to why anyone would think bruises are acceptable on a child's body. There's a big difference between a hit and some form of punishment that leaves a bruise.
If this family were in the UK they would be behind bars now and the GP's would be looking after
the children .
There are no second chances .Once the school was alerted that would be it I'm afraid .
What on earth could two small children do that would warrant a beating that left bruises ?
Fordell:
I hope this is resolved soon , because like you I wouldn't be able to rest until I knew my GK's were safe .In my book nothing a child does would warrant such beatings .
ADil:
Can you tell where it says in any religion , that a child shall be beaten until it leaves marks
on it's body ?
Discipline yes ....beating NO !
discipline means no treats etc ......beating for me is abuse .
You are saying that it's ok to beat a child as long as you're not angry ??
If you are not angry ,then you wouldn't want to discipline the child in the first place .
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on March 10, 2011, 12:26:04 PM
In the words of Yoda "Anger leads to pain, pain leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering." It is very damaging to a child when they are "disciplined" out of anger.
When I was hit, I felt angry. Anger lead to pain, and pain lead to hate, just like the noble Jedi master said. I definitely felt contempt for my dad when he hit me at times. So, there's a flip side to that argument too.
If you are in fact disciplining your child, their arm won't get broken.
"He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." Proverbs 13:24
"Because the Lord disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in." Proverbs 3:12
I realize that not everyone is a Christian and believes this way, but that's how I believe. Disciplining a child out of love is not something that comes easy, but just because a child is spanked, that does not mean that they are not loved. As a child, when you disobey your parents, you should be disciplined for it, whether it is a lie, failing to do their chores, kicking the family dog, or a blatant act of disrespect. If they understand why they are being punished (that you want them to be a better person so their bad behavior must be corrected), they will understand that you do love them, but you love them too much to let them stay that way.
I think the big issue here is the use of a belt. Have you everhad a child spanked with a belt where it didn't leave bruises? A belt is difficult to control. A paddle on the other hand... Additionally, the bruises were on his bottom. God gave us extra padding there for a reason.
Is it abuse if it's prefaced with, "This is going to hurt me more than it is you?" I don't think df was angry, but he did mean to send a message. Thank goodness, it didn't happen often, but when it did, we had trouble sitting at school the next day or two. I did spank mine, but reserved it for special occasions like running out in to traffic. The worst punishment my dc received was having to stand back to back, touching one another, till they made up after a spat. :)
Rose, I got that message every time I was hit too...and now, not only were you hitting me, you were lying to me.
Yes, I've had a belt with no bruises. I've had a paddle that also left bruises. I had a hand mark that also left a bruise. Trust me, I always understood the intent behind it was love, even Biblically ordained love, but the message that was sent was certainly never love.
No one here has argued against disciplining your child; there are a million and one ways to discipline a child without ever hitting them. Read about it.
The Bible is wrong when it says that I hate my child b/c I don't hit her. I know we're not supposed to talk religion here, but please don't use religious text to imply things about my relationship with my daughter that are on their face a lie.
Here you go, physical signs of child abuse, not discipline:
http://www.childhelp.org/pages/signs-of-child-abuse
See all you ladies tomorrow. I'm backing out of this one for now.
Me too Holli ...I'm way to angry to post any more on this subject .
This is the year 2011 ...not the dark ages !!
Quote from: holliberri on March 10, 2011, 12:58:52 PM
know we're not supposed to talk religion here, but please don't use religious text to imply things about my relationship with my daughter that are on their face a lie.
I am sorry, Holli. I was not implying anything about your relationship with your daughter. I was asked to explain myself, and I did. I even commented that I know not everyone believes the way that I do, but I was asked, so I answered. I am sorry that it offended you.
It sounds to me like you are sparing the rod, Adil. The problem is that as they grow, the tendency is to ratchet things up a notch when mistakes are repeated. And then what do you do when they're as big, if not bigger than you?
The most difficult lesson I learned as a parent was to "say what you mean & mean what you say." I quickly learned to dole out threats sparingly because I hated having to carry them out.
I don't know Holli, I have seen CPS walk away from even more serious cases than this without following up. I do hope there is an investigation, at least some parenting classes mandated and that this is a wake up call for the Ps, but I am not holding my breath. Obviously the SIL has some anger issues, and probably needs to deal with the abuse he suffered as a child.
The thing is, now Rose is on the outside and cannot be there for her GCs who obviously need her. In her place, you bet I would do what I needed to do to get back in. Kiss behind, you bet!! Crawl on my knees? Do you want me to crawl on that glass? OK, no problem. And, I would educate myself as to what is technically abuse, what the protocols are for reporting, and I would have a plan in place just in case. I might even speak to a lawyer. I would make sure that I was not looking for any reason to cry "ABUSE!" but would be as helpful and supportive as I could to my DD so that she knows I love her and want the best for her. It is a fine line to walk, but one worth walking.
I understand the P's anger. They don't see how what they are doing is wrong. It is what SIL was raised with and he turned out OK :o, so what is the problem? I hope they can get past their anger and understand that Rose did what she needed to do to protect her GCs, and that it is better to use this as a learning experience rather than let it tear the family apart.
As far as corporal punishment, I really don't consider it abuse depending on how it is used, and I say that reluctantly. But, it is a fine line between a spanking and a beating. It is a line that is easily crossed, it is one that I never wanted to get close to, and certainly would never allow anyone else near it where my children were concerned. There are so many other very effective ways to discipline children, why use violence? DH said about DS being spanked at school, "The principle lost that round." From then on, DS had no respect for him. If he wanted something from DS, DS was much less likely to do it. DS loved the Vice-principal, who never touched him, but used his brain to deal with DS, who was a handful.
Okay, I've had a nice long drive home and I think I can talk about this calmly now.
ADil, I don't really think you were implying that and I'm sorry for saying that.
Justus, I agree...I've seen them walk away too, but not always. It's still a noble attempt at protecting your GKs by trying to get them involved. Plus, after CPS closes their investigation (at least here), the school at least sees the children weekly to ensure CPS doesn't need to be called again.
I also agree that Rose isn't in a position where she can keep a close eye on them, so I would probably be trying to maintain a line of contact as well, as well as to try and persuade DD that this might be a situation she needs to change or walk away from.
I believe that many parents successfully use corporal punishment with no adverse affect, but if bruises are left behind they warrant investigation. CPS may decide it's abuse, they may not, but what they decide is totally beyond control.
I do take offense when someone says that without hitting my child I won't raise respectful children or they won't have enough discipline. It's wrong. I don't fault you for your parenting techniques, please don't fault me for mine. I've thought long and hard about how to discipline my daughter, and for me, hitting isn't an option.
*and by Rose, I really mean Fordell.
Quote from: justus on March 10, 2011, 02:14:32 PM
The thing is, now Rose is on the outside and cannot be there for her GCs who obviously need her.
Thankfully, it involved other relatives, not gc, justus...
For the dil's... Before I was a Mom
http://wilk4.com/humor/humors3.htm
To spank or not to spank has always been a huge controversy between parents, and probably always will be. It is always going to be the choice of the parent and should be.
I was raised with spankings, paddling, beltings and switchings. My Mother is the most loving, caring, giving parent...but she did all this. Why? Because I was a precocious child that just didn't learn. She tried everything with me, and about the only thing that worked was getting my rear-end wore out. She very rarely left bruises with hand paddling, wood paddling or belts, but switches would leave welts. I got what ADIL was saying, because usually when marks were left, it was because I was trying to run or move out of the way, and it caused her to miss her mark.
One time, when I was 15, I went riding in a car with a girl I knew, and 2 boys I didn't know. I was not supposed to leave the place my Mother dropped me off and when all was said and done, they dropped me off about 10 miles from where I was supposed to be, at a gas station. They were jerks and I got out of the car and had to call my Mother. That was the longest 20 minutes of my life waiting on her. I knew I was in big trouble. When she got there, and I got in the car, I turned to her crying and wanting a hug. What I got was a slap so hard across my face, my head whipped around. She had been terrified when I wasn't where I was supposed to be, imagining me lying dead in a ditch. When I called, she was so scared and angry, that was the first thing she did. Was that abuse? No. Some of you may say yes, but I don't think so. It was her reaction to a dangerous situation I put myself in. This was not normal and never happened again. I was a model teenager after that and it was because I knew if I did something like that again, she would knock the crap out of me again. Was I afraid of her? No. Was I afraid of getting slapped again? You betcha.
I raised my Sons with very few spankings. They probably got maybe 3 or 4 their entire lives. I didn't do it until all other efforts had been exhausted first, but they knew I would do it so they learned not to test those limits and I ended up with well behaved children.
There is discipline, and there is abuse. IMO, discipline can turn into abuse when it is a continuous pattern of injury or used as intimidation to be afraid of a person. I was never afraid of my Mother, but I was afraid of my punishment. I was afraid of disappointing her again. That is discipline in whatever form you choose.
This is like arguing breastfeeding versus bottle feeding, cloth diapers versus disposable. There is no right or wrong (when we are discussing discipline, not abuse). It is purely parental choice and we have to remember to respect each others choices.
As far as the original OP, I agree with all the ladies here, go further. Try everything you can until your efforts are exhausted to protect those children. It will be the hardest thing you probably ever do, but also the most loving.
I might consider buying one of those videotape cameras that is disguised at a teddy bear or something else and give it to the kids without telling them. I would like to see exactly what is happening inside the home and that video could be used to contact the police if indeed there is abuse going on.
When I was in school the principal used to beat the worse offenders with a belt but that was almost 50 years ago. If the kids are coming to you for help, they must be feeling desperate.
What a difficult set of circumstances for everyone. Sending prayers your way.
I completely agree with Pooh!! Well said!
I find it hard to discuss this subject without becoming emotional .
The thought of two children being scared and frightened and being beaten makes me feel physically ill .
A smack to deter children from doing wrong , I could maybe live with , but the thought of a grown man taking off his belt to beat his children fills me with horror !
as I said before in this post , he would be in jail now in this country , before the public got to him !!
LL - I agree with you 100%. To say this isn't outright child abuse is disgusting. There is a difference between a small spank on the bum and outright beatings with welts.
Quote from: Keys Girl on March 11, 2011, 02:59:25 PM
I might consider buying one of those videotape cameras that is disguised at a teddy bear or something else and give it to the kids without telling them. I would like to see exactly what is happening inside the home and that video could be used to contact the police if indeed there is abuse going on.
When I was in school the principal used to beat the worse offenders with a belt but that was almost 50 years ago. If the kids are coming to you for help, they must be feeling desperate.
What a difficult set of circumstances for everyone. Sending prayers your way.
That is a good idea, but it is illegal in this country to videotape someone (with the exception of inside your OWN home) without their knowledge. These videos would be inadmissable. Tread Lightly.
I would go talk to the police before the children have to. (See below)
Port Jervis man accused of beating children with belt
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Published: 4:25 PM - 03/10/08
PORT JERVIS — Police arrested a Port Jervis man yesterday for allegedly beating two of his children with a belt, according to Police Chief William Worden.
Timothy Smedley, 47, is facing felony counts of assault stemming from the incident and police say the two children suffered welts and bruises. The police were alerted to the incident when one of the children ran into the police station looking for help.
Smedley is being held in Orange County Jail. His bond was set at $5,000.
Stephen Sacco
I just read through this thread, and it makes me sick. I am all for letting the SIL and DIL live their lives, but that right ends with child abuse. I agree Keys I'd file a report with the police. And ADIL, the attitude of "no one has the right to tell me what to do in my family" leads to both child abuse and spousal abuse every day, and to tie it to "Christian attitudes?" whoa you lost me there girl..
They have an advocate in you. Bless your heart for standing caring.
My sentiment as well.
fordell:
If you are reading this ,please let us know what's happening with your GK's .
I keep thinking about them .
hope they are safe .
I am so very sorry to hear this horrible story. Hitting someone with a belt is abuse. You did the right thing by reporting it. So sad. Take care I hope everything works out for the poor kids. :(
Fordell, hope you and your grandkids are doing well, and hope you will update us.