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General Category => Grab Bag => Topic started by: MotherOf3 on February 22, 2011, 09:52:34 AM

Title: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: MotherOf3 on February 22, 2011, 09:52:34 AM
For good or bad, my son and his fiance are moving into a rental house that I just bought.  They are paying what my mortgage payment is so I am losing out on about $300 per month that I could normally charge for rent.  I'm not absolutely happy about that but, it is my decision.  I figure that at least it's someone I know in the house, it won't be trashed, I won't have to pay a property management fee of 10% of the rent, etc.  He's also a journeyman carpenter and can take care of some small repairs and maintenance.  I could use that extra income per month to replace my 25% down payment but, it helps them out too.

He's been talking about doing some things at the house that I don't want done.  It was built in 1940 and has some quirky, but charming, things like a telephone niche, old decorative heating grates (not used because it has new central heat and air), and he wants to get rid of them.  I could hear the letdown in his voice when I said 'no'.  Then his fiance posted on Facebook that she found a stay black lab and that if she couldn't find the owners she would keep him.  They aready have two tiny dogs.  I texted my son, "No big dogs." and he said OK.  I don't want the yard torn up or the original hardwood floors eithers.

I don't want this situation to go south on me!  I know that I need to stay out of anything going on at the house that isn't any of my business, any more than if they weren't related to me.  I need him to also see that just because he is my son that he can't do whatever he wants there.  It's not personal if I say NO to something.  I wouldn't let any other tenant do it either.

Keeping my fingers crossed that it works out well for all of us.  I bought this house to retire in, hopeful retiring early at age 55 in 8 more years, so I DO have quite a stake in what happens to it.  Not like it's just a rental that doesn't affect me very much.
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: Pooh on February 22, 2011, 10:06:32 AM
I think you are doing a nice thing and I hope it doesn't go south on you either.  Did you sit down with them and discuss what was acceptable and what wasn't before agreeing to let them move in?
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: MotherOf3 on February 22, 2011, 10:16:58 AM
It IS a nice thing to do.  :P  The payments are only $650 per month, couldn't even rent a small apartment for that, so they are getting a great deal.

No, we haven't sat down and gone over specific things.  I do have a rental agreement that I printed from the net for them to sign.  I told him that this isn't a "project house".  I don't want him doing a bunch of little unnecessary things, jobs that linger on, things that aren't finished.  It is totally move-in ready, all new paint, refinished floors, new carpet, ALL new appliances, granite counters, all new bathroom tile and fixtures, etc.  Everything is just fine how it is, don't mess with it!!  ;D

No, I don't want the siding taken off to original.  No, I don't want the bushes all cut back.  No, I don't want the garage door replaced (they are like barn doors that swing out).  I've told him all this too.

I think we do need to sit down and make sure we're all clear on this.
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: holliberri on February 22, 2011, 10:19:40 AM
I think you're doing a very nice thing Motherof3.

I think it's okay if he's disappointed he can't do just whatever he wants with the house. I think it's part of being a tenant, and when he's living in your rental/future home, that is what he is. He probably wouldn't have asked a landlord at all if he could do those things, b/c the answer would have naturally been no. Even if it was just a rental, you'd have a say so.

It's not your problem (as the landlord) to be concerned about his disappointment. It is what it is. You're doing them a huge favor, and the home needs to be to your liking. He's entitled to be disappointed, just not entitled to do what he wants with the house.  :P

Maybe this dog issue and the maintenance issue are just a healthy part of establishing some ground rules for what can and can't be done in the house.  Sitting down and spelling it out can help, but if your DS is that handy, he's likely also imaginative, which means you might not think of establishing rules for everything he comes up with.

Good luck! I think you're doing a remarkable thing!
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: MotherOf3 on February 22, 2011, 11:03:12 AM
Thanks for the reality check that I am not responsible for managing his disappointment.  Just as a mother I don't LIKE to say no but, there's times when you need to.

If this was a project house then I would be thrilled to have him there making improvements. I've actually thought about buying another one like many I looked at that needed work that I didn't want to deal with.  Let him move in there, do the repairs, and then share in any profits when the time comes.  I'm still thinking about that...
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: Pooh on February 22, 2011, 11:13:15 AM
I think he is probably thinking that either A) It's ok, because it's my Mom, or B) I would be helping her out and making improvements (in his head)...lol.  That's why I asked if this had been covered prior.  I do think you need to sit down and spell out as much as possible, so there is no misunderstandings later.   

But I also think you have to realize that if you were not letting them live in it, and were renting it, you would run into these same problems with tenants.  Tenants can ruin a property quickly.
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: luise.volta on February 22, 2011, 11:21:25 AM
This wouldn't work for me because it would just be one thing after another and for me it would eventually strain the relationship or do serious damage. If you haven't signed a contract regarding what they can and can't do, I think that needs to be done. You need a damage deposit, and regularly scheduled inspections. Also what would bring about eviction. It's a business proposition, not matter who is related to whom or how good a deal they are getting. Sending love...
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: MotherOf3 on February 22, 2011, 11:36:44 AM
I will sit down with him and go over my expectations and his.  He is a great kid, very giving, and I know he would want to do things that he thinks would help me.  If he doesn't know that I wouldn't like it then, that's on me.

I have a rental agreement to be signed so it will be in writing.  I also told him that since I am taking a cut on income that if he spends anything on the house to give me the receipts so that I can write off repairs and maintenance.

Since it is an investment the bank required a rental income analysis with the appraisal.  The comps are $1100 per month but, after figuring up $110 per month for property management (It's an hour away from me and I don't want to deal with tenants), the taxes on income, potential damage, etc.  I think it all comes out in the wash and that we're both benefiting.  I can still write off the payments, insurance, taxes, etc.
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: Pooh on February 22, 2011, 11:48:56 AM
Sounds like you have a handle on it.  I truly hope it doesn't cause a strain on either of you.
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: Pen on February 22, 2011, 02:39:31 PM
A rental agreement is definitely needed! I'd also put in a clause regarding damage to your yard, dog poo being left out, etc. A friend charges her renter a certain amount per day for dog poo that isn't picked up. She's up to over $1500 now! When the renter moves out he'll be shocked that he doesn't get back his cleaning deposit due to poo.
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: luise.volta on February 22, 2011, 05:10:52 PM
My gosh, you would have to daily poo-patrol!
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: Pen on February 22, 2011, 07:44:29 PM
Yeah, she figures it's an easy way to make money... :P
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: luise.volta on February 22, 2011, 07:51:46 PM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: MotherOf3 on February 22, 2011, 10:41:48 PM
 ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

Pooh Patrol!  I live an hour away from the rental house so that would be at least a part-time job for me to do each day.  The back yard better be as clean and as nice as it is now when I move in! 

Was on the phone with him this evening trying to find a store with a black refridgerator in stock to match the other new appliances.   Every place we looked couldn't get one in until the second week of March even if it's picked up at the store and not delivered.  Maybe because it is black is why it isn't in stock, don't know.
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: AnonymousDIL on February 24, 2011, 08:10:12 AM
MotherOf3,

I hope this is going well for you. I smell trouble brewing.  :(

It stinks when the "nice" things we do are turned around and used against us. Just a "warning" your DS has probably already sold you out on the dog thing and your FDIL thinks you are well, a , you know what.  :-[

Definitely get that rental agreement signed! It is never good to do business with friends or relatives.

They sound "young." How young are they? No savings that they could actually purchase a house of their own? This is such a great time to be buying.

And the house sounds really Awesome! The telephone niche is something that I would just find to be soooo cool even if it isn't "useful" lol
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: MotherOf3 on February 24, 2011, 11:06:05 AM
Well, I found out via Facebook that my son's father (my XH) took the dog.  I am not publicly making any comment about it, just that one text to my son was all I said.

I have a bit of an automatic desire to not have his father at "MY" house but, I know that I cannot do anything about that so I'm keeping my mouth shut on anything I might want to say about it.  His father is also a carpenter and I just know that HE wouldn't be able to resist either suggesting things to do at the house and/or offering to help do them and/or making derogaroty comments about it.  That's just how he is.  I'll deal with that if/when it comes up.

My son is 25 and his fiance is 23 (I believe) so yes, they are young and wouldn't be able to buy a house on their own.  I don't have a lot of interaction with her, just casually, and never had a problem with her.  My two daughters don't like her but I've told them that they don't have to like her.  If their brother loves her then they need to accept her and be polite.

The house is just darling!  It looks like a little fairytale cottage on a quiet street lined with huge trees.  It's a desirable area near a college and a beautiful park a couple of blocks away.
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: AnonymousDIL on February 24, 2011, 11:26:07 AM
I am in LOVE with those floors!!! And that Kitchen Counter!!! I think I'm about to hyperventilate! lol If he does anything to those beautiful floors, let me know, I'll put him in the boxing ring! LOL

Isn't it "annoying" when people we love are buddy-buddy with people we dont? My BFF is facebook friends with my SIL (who won't add me btw), and it annoys the crap outta me when SIL comments on bestie's posts. They don't even know each other. She added all my bridesmaids and doesn't know any of them. Ugh! lol But I digress....

It is sad that they can't buy on their own right now since the housing prices are so low. DH and I were lucky to be able to buy a house last year just before the wedding. It was also just in time for that 1st time homebuyer credit of Obama's. Thank You, Mr. President. I Will take $8,000 from you lol

Yay for the dog being gone from the house without any issues! Hope you relationship with your FDIL stays "good."  :D
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: LaurieS on February 24, 2011, 11:40:04 AM
What a beautiful home your son will get to reside in... I hope that he does keep it this nice... they are  a lucky  couple.. I'd hate to even have a picture to remind me of what our first place looked like :)
I like the archways.. very cool
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: luise.volta on February 24, 2011, 11:42:44 AM
We had a little phone nook in the hall wall wth a little seat attached to it when I was 13. It was the very latest thing!  8)
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: Pooh on February 24, 2011, 12:02:53 PM
I love that!  I love bungalow looking houses.  That is what I want next!
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: MotherOf3 on February 24, 2011, 12:48:28 PM
I looked at dozens of older homes and I just love all the details. The telephone is in the hallway and there is a little opening in the wall between the dining room and the hallway with a ledge.  I assume that's so you can answer the phone from the dining room.  :)  I saw some that had the pull-down seat and ones with a little pull-out writing surface.  I was charmed by the tiny window in the upstairs half-bath too.  Never seen an opening window that small!  It's for ventilation.  I saw houses that had tiny windows in the closets for ventilation too.  I guess that was back when clothes were aired out and not washed as much.

I do hope they appreciate what a deal they are getting.  I have looked at apartment listings and even for $700 per month that would only get a one bedroom.  My agent told me that she has a client that bought three houses in the area and he has no problem renting them out because of the university nearby.  I would be worried about students not caring for the house though.

My son found a fridge and he can get it tomorrow so I transfered the money to his bank account.  No, I'm not a hovering mother with access to his accounts.  :P  I can transfer to another Wells Fargo customer and I have when he has done work for me or needed a little help.
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: AnonymousDIL on February 24, 2011, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: MotherOf3 on February 24, 2011, 12:48:28 PM
I can transfer to another Wells Fargo customer and I have when he has done work for me or needed a little help.

That is such an awesome feature. PNC is the same way, although I haven't been able to use it because no one I ever need to give money to has PNC. :-( Oh well, that's what checks are for right?
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: MotherOf3 on February 24, 2011, 01:19:17 PM
It is a nice feature but my son is the only one of the three kids who banks at WF.  Actually, his fiance works at WF too.

I wish my daughters did but, maybe that's not a bad thing that they don't.  ;)  They occasionally ask for a little help and I'm happy to if it isn't excessive... a couple hundred here and there.  My oldest daughter rarely asks for anything but she has worked for a major car manufacturer for years and she is doing well.  She recently left her fiance and I gave her $2k to move into an apartment and she tells me she is saving to buy a house.  My middle daughter asks more but, she's just finishing nursing school with 3 children and they bought a house a year ago (with the $8k incentive) and things are tight until she gets a job.

I really don't mind helping out.  I went to my parents when I was young and married with 3 children so I know how it is.  One thing that burns me is that their father, who I was married to for 20 years, is such a jerk.  If they ask him for anything he says he can't.  My middle daughter asked him to put up a gate to keep her dogs in one area of the yard and he charged her $100 for it.  Come on... it's not that much and they're struggling!  He's just too much of a jerk to do anything decent even for his own children.  It really POd my daughter that right after this he went on a two week vacation to Australia with a woman he's been dating for 3 months.  That he went isn't a problem... it's that he treats them like that when there's really no excuse for it.
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: pam1 on February 24, 2011, 01:24:13 PM
Beautiful house!

The only thing I would caution is not to let this come in between you guys, no matter what happens.  It's a beautiful and a good price but relationships are always more important, IMHO.  You're a nice momma
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: JaneF on February 27, 2011, 04:56:43 AM
Wow, what a darling little house! I wouldn't want it changed either...love the floors and counters! I am not a happy landlady today. We furnish water and sewer service for all renters, and one let us know yesterday she had been letting water run to keep pipes from freezing!!!!! We have had no issues with that, but now we have a $500 water bill thanks to this renter. I am REALLY about ready to scream (I honestly would like to go to her and ask if she has any sense, but I know that I can't do that of course). My husband did tell her not to do that anymore though. Sometimes having rentals is difficult...sometimes renters have terrible landlords, sounds like us here doesn't it? Some good DILs and some bad, some good MIL some bad! lol  And life goes on. Made myself feel better, took grandchild to shop and let her pick a darling spring outfit and shoes. She has good taste! She is a happy gal in all her purple glory!
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: MotherOf3 on February 27, 2011, 10:20:21 AM
I would be steaming if someone did that!  I'm not paying for any of the utilities though they are in my name right now.  I had a talk with my son about what the other costs are, he/they really have no idea.  My son has always rented rooms in another house, not even his own apartment, and the same goes for his fiance. 

I listed cable, water & sewer, gas & electric, etc.  He asked how much electric would be.  I almost had to laugh when I said that it depends on what you use and told him that mine ranges from $50 to $150, depending on the weather.

He sent me a picture of the new fridge in the house.  Nice, side-by-side with water/ice in the door.
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: Pen on February 27, 2011, 11:02:49 AM
Lovely house, Mo3. Your DS & your FDIL are very lucky to have your help. I hope they appreciate it and take good care of everything.
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: AnonymousDIL on March 01, 2011, 07:38:55 AM
Quote from: MotherOf3 on February 27, 2011, 10:20:21 AM
I would be steaming if someone did that!  I'm not paying for any of the utilities though they are in my name right now.  I had a talk with my son about what the other costs are, he/they really have no idea.  My son has always rented rooms in another house, not even his own apartment, and the same goes for his fiance. 

Well, they are gonna have to learn real quick then aren't they  ;) Hope everything unfolds well in this!
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: Faithlooksup on March 03, 2011, 08:25:27 AM
Hi!!  Love your Home---and I Love the fact about the garage has barn doors vs. regular doors...

In all do respect, I would take the utilities out of my name~~just in case...as well as to settle with all the do's and don't's as soon as possible.....this way they will know and no hard feelings will occur down the road...

Best of Luck...
Title: Re: Being a landlord to my son and his fiance
Post by: MotherOf3 on March 03, 2011, 09:30:07 AM
I like the garage doors too though my son has said twice now that he could replace them.  I've said "no".  It goes with the house and I think it looks fine.

They haven't totally moved in yet, he got their stuff out of storage so he didn't have to pay another month there.  Replacing the electrical panel is delayed because it has to be scheduled with the power company to turn off the power for one day and they're backlogged.  The contractor will be doing some wiring clean-up, installing the sub-panel, replacing a plug and installing a light switch this weekend.  All they can do in the meantime.