WiseWomenUnite.com

Hello Ladies!!!

This question has been eating me up on the inside.  I still for the life of me can't figure out what MILs want from their DIL.  I've tried giving my FMIL respect but that never seemed to be enough.  She wanted my time, love, friendship, companionship....way more than I expected.

Do MILs want their DIL to love them?  Do they expect their DILs to want to spend time with them?  Do MILs expect that just because they gave birth to their son, his wife is feel the same way he does or something similar?

I know there are DILs who are blatantly mean or purposely try to separate her husband from his family and that's unacceptable.  This question doesn't pertain to DILs like that. 

What if she just doesn't feel anything towards her MIL, good or bad?  I ask this because before all the negative feelings between my FMIL and myself, I was content with saying hello and goodbye, keeping visits to a minimum and just being respectful.  That wasn't enough, but when you don't feel anything more what do you do???

Thanks Ladies!!!!

Your question tears me up inside!  This non-feeling toward her is going to be what she eventually gets from her son. You get no place in our society without a relationship with his wife.  I could just break down and sob as I read your letter. She can surely feel your non-caring...surely she can. 

Why are you marrying her son?  Did she not raise him well enough to earn her some respect and caring from you.  You hold all the cards here. 

Mine has done so much damage to us that my spirit is almost gone.  Don't have a son; this will come back to you ten fold.  You will love that son just as much as you will love the daughter you might have.  However, you will lose your son if he marries someone who doesn't care for you. 

Just because a woman is with a man she is to love his mother similar to how he does??  Has there ever been anyone in your life that you had no feeling towards good, bad or indifferent??  How can I make him feel any less about his mother, maybe his mother is making his life harder with her complaints and dislike for his wife??

What does a mother raising her son have to do with his woman having anything in common with her???  Does this act of giving birth automatically mean that whoever your son deals with will like you??  Does this mean that your personalities will mesh well?? She raised him well and I'm glad for that, she has my respect and most of all I trust her with my children, how much more can she ask for???  She has unlimited time with her grandchildren, whenever she wants.  That is A LOT coming from me.  I don't trust many people and if she has my children, she has my respect.

I'm sure she can feel my non-caring just as I can feel hers.  Some MILs don't notice that while they are sizing up their DILs to see if the are "good enough" for their son, we DILs feel that and are turned off immediately.  Then you deem us "bad people" when we don't do something you want or think we should do.  How do you care for someone who can speak negatively about you to anyone who listens??  How can you care about someone who makes it clear YOU are the reason for their unhappiness??  How can you possibly care about someone who acts as if they have done nothing wrong to you but obviously feelings are hurt??

Where did this sense of entitlement come from on the MIL part??  I'm starting to think these MILs are more concerned with their own feelings and not the best interest of their children.  If a son is happy with how things are in his life, be happy for him instead trying to make his life the life YOU want. 

Prissy I hope your DIL or grandchildren never sees this site because the words and comments you use on this site towards your DIL will NEVER create a good relationship.  I'm sure she can feel the non-caring feelings you have for her.  I would probably cry if I read half of what you have written about her regardless of what the past held.  I wouldn't think you were serious about resolving any issues, I would just think you're waiting for your DIL to admit her "wrongs" while you sit and judge.

I really hope I didn't offend you Prissy, but this is a discussion forum and I am stating my opinion.  I'm just shocked at how you point fingers at your DIL for being nasty to you and you just do it behind her back on a website. 

This website is all I have to speak about what's she done to us.  How can you say what you've said? I deserve to have a place to be heard. We had a great home until she came in.  It's been beyond horrible and yes, a DIL holds all the keys. 

She has come between his siblings; no one can stand her.  To watch our son become a robot is unbelievable.  You roll that over in your head and see how that would make you feel. 

Until you have been swept off your feet by a person and charmed to the nines to get into your life and then turned on FOR NO REASON, you'll never know what it's like.

It's the only death where the grief never ends.  It's the longest goodbye on earth.   He would never act any way but caring toward your Mother, nor should he.  You would not appreciate that. 

Go back to the steps of what a DIL does to his family.  God help you. You're gonna need it.

Well, I am interested in this exchange, of course.  :)

I think we need to remember there are no actual MIL/DIL prototypes. We/they come in all sizes and shapes, attitudes and behaviors, backgrounds and life experiences. Tolerance is hard to create and even harder to maintain when the chemistry isn't favorable. What one MIL wants is not necessarily what another would value. The same goes for DILs. Terrible, unforgivable damage can be done and sometimes minor slights can be seen as terrible, unforgivable damage. We can share and learn and then we have to sort it out from our own vantage (or disadvantage) point.

I think there is something in our Forum Policy that we agree to the refers to bold type and capitalization. When the need to do that comes up, and I'm sure it will for most of us, lets agree to stop, take a deep breath and break for tea or a coke or whatever. Or what I do when smoke is coming out the top of my head is I write it but I don't send it until I tone it down a bit. Whatever works for you. OK?

This is a Forum...it wouldn't have any juice without divergent opinions and experiences. We want that and it needs to be tempered with "viva la difference." (Misspelled, I know...but poor spelling is a sign of brilliance according to Einstein.) Blessings, Luise

To Bride2Be:

Boy, strong feelings bouncing around!

This is my first comment to someone but I think your question is where I want to get my feet wet. I have never thought of it that way; like "What does a mother in law want in a daughter in law?" Not when I became a daughter in law and not when I became a mother in law did that cross my mind. How strange to participate in such life altering rituals as weddings and not give a thought to the collateral benefits or damage connected to an extended family. Is everybody too busy trying to impress everybody else, to take the time to think? Are you the only exception? I hope not!

It sounds like you have already been on a rocky road by being challenged like that when you got pregnant. That would sure have set me back on my heels, too. To think it is one thing, but to say it to someone you really don't even know very well is pretty dumb. I know how judgmental that sounds but I think you are getting a really dumb mother in law. By the time we get to her age we ought to know better.

Also, what she wants in a daughter in law and who you are might not be remotely related. That was an eye-opener for me. (And visa versa, of course. Wow!)

If I were asked now, my answer would be "I would like a daughter in law that would try to make my son happy. One that would stand by him no matter what. One that was willing to hang with him in whatever ways suited them both. And one that would talk to me about any family stuff that didn't seem to work, if she thought that would help."

I might make up something different tomorrow but that would be it today.

SouthernBelle

I can't believe no one commented on my remark three days ago that I think Bride2Be's future mother in law is really dumb. Is everyone asleep? SouthernBelle

ok Southern Belle.

Yeah, I too thought that was alittle over the top to say such blatantly crude and hurtful remarks to a DIL thats pregnant...but we don't know her. Some women and some cultures just have more outspoken opinions because that what their used. My mom used to embarass the pieces out of me because she would call chinese americans Chinks, indians towelheads etc right to their faces while I was with her (I never got used to it as a kid and it still made me cring after I was grown...but she was one of those loud mouthed eastern italians with broken english but a great heart who would wave big old sticks of salami at you in the airport that she had stunk up the whole plane her just because she did't trust califs salami. what I'm trying to say Sothern Belle try to understand why she does what she does not why she doesn't do. at least for awhilll

I'm really glad I found this site, I keep saying that and I mean it.

I guess I have always thought about what MILs want from their DILs and vice versa, just because I think the expectations are unreal at times.  I have never expected anything from my FH mothers except respect.  I never wanted her time, companionship, love or anything she might try to give with the intentions of being "nice". 

As my mother has always told me, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."  I didn't know what that meant until I met my FHs mother.  Now I get it.  Even though her intentions are good, doesn't mean I will perceive it the same way and things can get confusing and hurtful.  I know my intentions were good too, but appearently she didn't perceive my actions the same.

This site has opened my eyes.  I see now that my FH mother is her own person and she will be who she is.  I have also learned that just because I'm not who she wants me to be (the daughter she never had) doesn't make me a bad person.  I just don't want a relationship with her and that's ok, because I can't change her and she can't change me.

I hope my wedding goes ok, I would hate to have a falling out with her that day.  I just hope she doesn't think it's the day to talk because there's nothing to talk about and she has no discretion, lol!!!

She will probably learn over time that you don't want her and back off like we've had to do.  I do wish you well with your wedding and a happy life.  With you, goes her son and what you feel (perceive) about her, he will also feel at some point.

You hold all the cards.  Her initial comment to you was way out of line, unforgivable maybe, but if you don't want her, that's what you'll get. Eventually she will go away.

Bride2be,  You seem to be asking 2 different questions. 1 - what do MIL's want from DIL's and 2- Do you have to love your MIL.

1.  Personally, I want a DIL that wants a relationship with me.  This is someone that I hope to spend time with.  This is a person that will be an extension of our family as well as my son will be an extension of his wife's family.  Family to me is more than just being polite, and keeping visits and conversation to a minimum.  I have wonderful In-laws that make me feel at home in their home.  I understand, respect, and appreciate the fact that they had no choice in their son's wife, but they are willing to open their doors and their hearts to allow me in.  I have never faced (in 2 marriages) feeling that they were trying to interfere or judge me.  No praise has ever been more appreciated than when my MIL would compliment me and the way I treated their son and grandkids.  I also appreciate that my parents have been just as accepting of my husband.   Though I am a normally very polite person, even to strangers, does not mean I would feel comfortable with inviting them into my home.  Someone open to a relationship, someone that will appreciate that I love my son, someone that will tell me when I am crossing the line, someone that will be honest with me and willing to try to build a mutually rewarding relationship so that my son will not feel uncomfortable to come around.

2 - No "you" don't have to love your MIL, but I would hope that my DIL will love my son enough to want to try and build a loving relationship.  I was fortunate to have been married to my son's father for 17 years.  I was loved and accepted by his precious mother.  She treated me as if I was one of her own while still respecting I had my own mother.  I loved her and am so grateful that I was able to have that relationship.  Had I not loved her so, I would not have felt that comfortable leaving my children with her.  Had I not done that I would have denied my children the love of their grandparents.  My MIL once said that all she had to offer my children was time and memories and she gave them all she had.  I think not trying to have a relationship with her would have been the biggest and most selfish act of my life.  But that is just my opinion Bride2be.

Best wishes in whatever you decide

Hi, the lovely post by lostone makes me want to reprint this. Blessings, Luise


This is the story of my role model where mother in laws are concerned. She is gone now but she lived to be 102 and we remained friends my entire life.

I don't know when I met her because she spent her summers at the same place my mother did. They took their little 3 and 4 year-olds, (my future husband and me), down to the beach and visited with each other while we played there.

Fast forward...long story, we married in 1947 and she became my mother in law. She was a kindergarten teacher and she had the patience of a saint. I am absolutely sure that many of her students were more skilled and more mature than I was at the time we became related through my marriage to her son.

I had firmly withstood every attempt my own mother made to teach me to cook and clean... and be responsible. I had no concept of money management and I didn't know anything about kids. As I look back all those years, I know I had to be every mother in law's nightmare.

She was a friend. We shopped together, decorated our homes together, and even joined the same social club together in the little mid-west town where we lived.

She was never bossy or disapproving. She taught by example, and as I have mentioned, with infinite patience. Where she got her patience, I have no idea... but it was never ending. And I learned. My only skill to start out with was that I was a nurse. I didn't work outside the home but I knew how to take care of my kids when they were sick. Chalk 1 up for me and a 1000 up for her.

I learned the way most of us do, intermittently and sporadically. You know... one step forward followed by three steps backwards. A lot of what I was expected to do didn't interest me... which didn't help the process much. Yet she didn't push me or hold me back. She honored my eventual progress calmly, as through it had been a given. Ha! What were the odds?

After eighteen years of marriage, I divorced her son. End of my relationship with her, right? Wrong! She and I stayed in touch and remained friends for another 40 years.

The moral of this story is that I knew what to do and what not to do when my sons married and I became the mother in law. I had daughter in laws that related to me like I did to her and I had daughter in laws that didn't. You have to have the raw material to work with and when you are labeled as "the enemy" even before you are introduced, it can all be downhill from there. However, I also have a daughter in law who divorced one of my sons and you know what we did? We decided to not get divorced! As a result, we have been inseparable for over 25 years and only death will part us.

I was willing to learn and my mother in law was willing to teach me. The bottom line, I think, was willingness... openness... forgiveness and our constant acknowledgment of our mutual humanness. Bless her heart!

I have realized that I will never have a relationship with that woman because of her son, my fiance.  He acts as if she can do what she wants with my children, he keeps her in the loop when I have clearly stated I wouldn't tell her what I'm doing so why should he.  I tried to set up a meeting so we could discuss boundaries but he never did it.  I'm sure because he wants to spare her feelings.  I'm really considering ending this relationship with this man just to keep her out of my life. 

Regardless of what she may want from me, I have no obligation to be around her, like her, love her, or even respect her anymore.  I tried and the mommas boy I'm with is too weak to get his mother out of my business.  I'm fed up.  Screw being nice about it, I swear I want to choke her, literally.

I hear you Bride2Be and I think you are putting the blame where it belongs. Your guy is not with you on this one if the meeting never took place and no boundaries have been established. I also have to wonder if your FMIL would have paid any attention to said boundaries. Her conduct has been sanctioned for a long time, which may have given her a sense of power. Respect is so vital. He needs to respect you and together you need to deal with his mother's disrespect in a respectful way...not an easy assignment and one calling for solidarity. (I suppose Prissy will brain me for this one!)

Hi Ladies!!!

Well what a few days can do for someone!!  I went from thinking whole heartedly about ending my relationship with a wonderful, loving caring man to feeling like I'm making some head way with him and his mother.

My FH finally talked to his wise uncle (her brother) about the situation with his mother.  He said he felt like he was in the middle and he didn't know what to do.  He also said that he didn't like hurting his mother's feelings.  His uncle said "MAN UP!!!".  He said that my FH needed to stand his ground with his mother, be loving and understanding but nonetheless be firm.  He told my FH that since he knows that his mother cries when the wind changes directions and his mother is extremely clingy and overbearing that he can't let her inability to deal with changes be his fault.  He also told him that my FH is about to be someone's husband and that is the family that comes first now.  He told him that he can't always please his mother and wife but that he needs to come to common ground with both. 

I agree with everything his uncle said.  I also had to remind my FH that his mother isn't the only grandmother or family member that wants to spend time with our kids.  It's summertime , the kids are out of school which leaves them more time for everyone.  I had to let him know it's not his mothers place to decide a time schedule for our kids when they have a right to their other family.  His mother spends a whole lot more time with my kids than any other family member because she constantly goes to their school (too often in my book - 2-3 times a week) and taking them during the school week (I disagree with that especially when I have a child who is beginning to lie and hide her homework).  I have not said much but now that summer is here she is expecting to have them 50% of the time and created a schedule for herself that accommodated her and as she said "gives others time with the kids".  Not her choice.  My mother is different than her.  My mom feels like she has raised her kids and does not want to do the school thing with them unless she is asked by me.  My mom says "I want to love them, hug them, squeeze them and kiss them and then send them home hopped up on sugar to mommy."  I think that's great.  She respects that I am the mother and she is the grandmother and wants to spoil them and not have to be like their mother because of school.

My FH called me this morning and said he was sorry for getting mad at me for wanting to change the days his mother set up (he didn't want to "hurt her feelings" but he will short my mother of her time) and for asking me to take time away from mother for his when I don't ask him to do that to his mother.  I think the kids can be shared by everyone, I have a big family.  I have 4 sisters, 2 brothers, over 20 nieces and nephews and many more and they want to spend time with my kids too. 

I know my FH's mother will freak out because of the devastating news (in a sarcastic tone) but that's her M.O.  That is how she kept him close as a child.  She would cry and say things like "But I'm your momma, how can you hurt me?" which in turn would make him feel bad.  She would him feel guilty and inturn not say things she has needed to hear over the years (even before me) because of his fear of making her cry.  He finally understands that he can't have the same relationship with her now (telling her EVERYTHING from his sexual encounters to telling him about girls who wanted to sleep with him.  Who wants to really tell their teenaged son something like that???).  He understands that he has created the relationship they have and that while they are close, it puts a pinch on ours.  We have the same outlook on life, we want better for our kids than we had for ourselves.  He was raised in a single parent home and I was raised in an a abusive, alcoholic home, we want our kids to have the both of us - happy, healthy and with connections to all their family not just his mother.  I will say that I find it utterly ridiculous that my 5 and 8 year old children can handle being told no or that plans have changed better that a 51 year old woman can.

My FH has decided to make the date for a meeting with her for all three of us after he "preps" her.  I'm thrilled!!!  I'm not asking for his mother not the be in our lives, I just want her to back off and let us grow as a family without making us feel guilty for doing so.  I love my FH and I adore my children and she is an important part in their loves, I would NEVER take that from them as I wouldn't end a close family relationship.  I just want peace.  I think I'm on the way to having that and I hope it goes smooth but I am prepared for the backlash.

Thanks for listening ladies!!!

So, is he her only child?  I can predict that she will be hurt and maybe cry. She behaved badly, making him guilty over her sadness.  It's interesting to me that he turned out okay, though.  Good enough for you to consider marrying.

He was raised in a single parent home?  So sad!  You were raised in an abusive, alcoholic home?  Have they reformed their ways?  Children of Alcoholics have problems of their own.  My DIL is from one of them.

She will "get it".  She will.  She will most likely need help (like counseling) but you'll have established your boundaries.  Anything is better than being completely thrown out.  I would hate to be left with my boundaries. Boundaries will not look after you when you're sick, go the second mile for you, keep you warm at night but you'll have them.

My parents are just as happy as ever now and I turned out fine.  I never been arrested, in jail, on drugs, an alcoholic. Not all children from homes like that have problems like their parents, that's an over statement.  My father came from a very loving family with both parents who weren't on drugs, were deep into church and family, and he took his own path, so what does that say? 

He is an only child and he turned out better than good enough to marry.  And as far as it being so sad that he was raised in a single parent home, he was a happy child, even without his father around.  He went to college, he has never been to jail, on drugs, alcoholic, he's not abusive, nor is he a cheater.  He adores his children, both of our daughters are daddy's girls.

I'm not really concerned with her not wanted to be left out.  My concern is about how her intrusive behavior was affecting my relationship negatively.  I probably won't start going to her house or trying to be her friend.  She was completely thrown out of my life not everyone else's and regardless of that she deserved that treatment for her lack of respect for me.  And some MILs can't see past themselves to understand that they aren't perfect and that maybe their DIL has a valid reason for not wanting to deal with them even if you think it's not.  People can sense judgemental behavior towards them even if it is a sympathetic feeling for how they were raised whether it's good or bad.  I've heard so many times, "I have never met anyone who didn't like me." Bull.  Everyone has encountered someone who didn't care for them for whatever reason.  Just because they didn't express it to that person, doesn't mean it's not true or that their reasoning for not liking that person isn't valid.  I think MILs (even mine) need to be the first to hear and believe that it is possible for someone to not like you.  I think my FMIL thought something was wrong with me because I wasn't gushing over her and I wasn't running to love her like she thought everyone was doing.  Just because someone doesn't act like how you want them to towards you, does not make it OK to bash them.

I find it kind of interesting that after all I wrote in my last reply that they only thing that stuck out to you was the fact we were raised in a not so perfect homes and that either one of us would be "good enough" to consider marrying.  Are you shocked that people can turn out OK with adversity being their starting point??  It's very possible and I bet your DIL can sense those feeling from you and it's not a good feeling to feel from someone who wants to be so close.  I hope you let go of your bitterness because it is your problem and no one elses, nothing your DIL or son can fix for you. 

Wow Bride2be that is a very good turn of events, and it made me happy for all of you.  Sounds like your MIL needs a wake-up call, and I hope for all of your sakes she does.

On another note...I hope that you keep in mind that a lot of bitterness that some of us MIL's have is that we don't have DIL's willing to try and work things out or "help us see the light."  I for one wish that my DIL and ES had sat boundaries because that would at least say they cared enough to try.  Shutting the door without explanation (i.e., because the DIL "senses" the MIL's feelings) IMHO is selfish and inconsiderate.  Then to be accused of knowing or should have known is also a way of putting the responsibility off of themselves.

Communication is the key to success in all relationships.  You know what they say about assuming, "when you assume you make an A#* out of U and Me.  I use to assume a lot, if my husband said or did certain things that "he should know bothered me" I assumed he didn't care about my feelings.  Over time if the behavior continued I would grow more resentful until something small would turn into something major and spill out all over every aspect of our relationship.  Had I been honest and direct and reminded him, why I felt the way I did when he did specific things, and he made no effort to make changes or compromise then I had a real issue. 

It is so important to remember that others in our lives don't think the way we do, because they come from different backgrounds and have gone through different experiences.  So to me that is why it is so important to talk and S-P-E-L-L it out if necessary before throwing in the towell.

I'm not pointing fingers Bride2be because it appears you have tried.  I'm just saying we should all Iincluding me) be careful not to point fingers and/or take out our hurt and anger on others when we have not "walked a mile in their shoes."

I never shut the door just because of what I "sensed" but also because of what she said.  And thinking someone should just want to be around you because you gave birth to the man they love is selfish and inconsiderate.  That's ass-uming too.  I might as well have ass-ume that his mother should have loved the ground I walked on but she didn't and I never thought she did.  I only accused her of what she knew she had did and all the things she figured were good deeds.  I explained to her many, many times that her words and neurotic behavior would eventually push me away.  Even when I would explain exactly what she said she would still be oblivious to what she had done.  Personally when you "sense" someones feelings it's hard to even want to try to be close with that person even if you are wrong.  We are entitled to let our intuition and gut feeling guide us to where we feel most comfortable.  That's like saying if I "sense" my man is cheating on me I would be rude and inconsiderate if I followed my instincts regardless if they are wrong or right.

Your right, no one knows what you have been through until they have been in your shoes.  So I can ass-ume that you have never been in my shoes with needy clingy woman who claims to care about you but then pushes you away because you don't fall into her catergory of a "good daughter in law".  I pushed her away because of what she said to me over and over again, I was more than willing to accept her and everything that comes along until it became hurtful.  I will always believe that being bitter will not affect anyone but yourself negatively.

I appreciate this site more than any other I have found.  There are so many varying opinions that shed light on the differences between MILs and DILs.  I think we all have the same plight and having others who have just as difficult situations and who can understand is great.

Thanks again ladies!!!

Bride2Be,
You can throw his Mother out with ease but he can't do that to your Mother, can he?  Sure, she's wonderful, why shouldn't she be? 

I was left as a child, alone, so that colors every thought I have, I realize that.  I make huge mountains out of molehills; I know I do.  I begged my kids to never let anyone come between us.  Their response: "Mom, how can you even ask that?  There is no way that anyone could come between us."

That was before DIL came in. She destroyed my life, my heart.  I know her home was not perfect, I've never held that against her, never.  If I can lift my own self up and be who I am today, anyone can.

Lostone helped me understand her. I don't condemn anyone for anything but to have this woman come into my life, love us and throw us away, demanding our son do the same is beneath contempt.

We've become a sad society. We throw people away for the slightest infraction and the one that throwing out is reserved the most for is the Mother of a son by his wife.  Our son had the hardest time doing that to us.  You can see it on his face.

Still, he runs to her after she's thrown a fit to calm her down.  It's taken its toll on him.  We don't want to make things worse for him, that's why we've backed away.  I think of him so much and remember the little boy who we loved so much. Maybe my fear of being left caused her to turn on me.  Maybe she thought I was "needy". 

When we met her, she was so nice....you have someone turn on you the moment they marry, after they have just acted like they adored you is hard to take.

I can't imagine our society lasting that much longer. You don't throw people away, you throw garbage away, not people.   There is something wrong and I'm afraid we're in for it in this country. 

lol, I glad you mentioned that Prissy.

There was a point in time when we were having major car issues.  I lived upstairs from my mother and I asked her can I use her car to take my fiance to work and my kids to school.  She said "No he's too big to be in my car." Even though my mom weighed about 50 pounds more than him at the time.  I told her point blank that she better not ever say things like that about my fiance, the father of her grandchildren.  I would NEVER allow my mother to disrespect my fiance and vice versa, if she did to the point where he didn't want to be around her, then so be it.  I wouldn't lose sleep over it because I would be offended that she would even part her lips to say something so disrespectful.  He doesn't have to love or like my parents (even though he has a good relationship with them) and that's not the issue anyway.  That was the first and last time she ever said anything disrespectful to or about my fiance.  He NEVER stopped his mother from being rude to me because he didn't want to hurt her feelings.

SO your theory of DILs being so close to their mothers that they can do what they want is not what's going on here.  Maybe your DIL does that, but I don't.  Disrespect is disrespect no matter who it comes from and no one is going to put me in the middle of it.  I'm not afraid on telling those around me when they have said something I didn't like, my mother is no exception.  To get respect you have to give it and even my mother has to earn it just as I do.

I can tell you make mountains out molehills, lol.  It obvious in your posts.  You seem to think that cutting yourself off from someone is so horrible, would you really want to continually be around people who just don't respect you??  Would you really sit there and be belittled and insulted?? Maybe, I don't know.  But you can't change anyone and if they can't see the err in their ways, who am I to think I can change their thought processes if I just stick it out and continue to tolerate their unbearable behavior.  I have feelings too and as my mother would say "Stop looking for it and will come to you." So I'm going to stop looking for some respect from this woman, give myself time and space to heal, regardless if she does and keep on skipping.  I refuse to be bitter, angry, self righteous and just a ball of resentful feelings because of someone else anymore.  You have a long way to go Prissy, I do too, but I swear your are the main person on this site who reminds me not to be bitter and not to let this consume me.  There are so many other people in my life who love me for exactly who I am and I if choose to cut someone off because I don't feel it from them then I'm doing what's best for me.

You have your standards and I should have had mine.  I should have told her, at her first outburst, to get out of my house but I didn't.  I allowed her free reign here.

Remember, I was wined and dined at first. I think I was in shock and kept thinking this couldn't be happening.

My Husband's mother said some things to me, I'm sure out of some need of her own that in today's world would have had her banished.  My husband loved his Mother and I realized, even at my young age that she would not live forever and I was not going to be the cause of hurling her out.  I grew to love her and have no regrets today.

Our society has become a very sad place.  I don't understand it.  Maybe someone with more wisdom than I have can explain it.  Lostone helped me so much in understanding her. 

You're right Prissy, you should have.  She should have been on the curb with the trash that day just to let her know not to disrespect you.  But wallowing in your own pity isn't helping you at all.  I really hope you have other happiness in your life. You seem so unhappy.  Ihope you aren't bringing other down with you.

I would never want to bring others down with me.  I want to say something here: my screen name, Prissy.....I'm about as far from "Prissy" as you can get. 

I'm a lady but I'm not Prissy.

You'd be surprised at how much this has hurt me.  If you have a son, remember that you might be treated the same way.  It will make you sad. You learn to cope and I still make people laugh all the time.  I write here because it's the only place I have to tell my story.  I'm glad I have it. 

Bride2be your post in response to my post sounded like you thought I was addressing your issue with your mother-in-law was a result of you assuming.  If so I apologize.  I thought I stated it more than once that this did not apply to you because from what I have seen you did try.  Probably more than she deserved considering all you have wrote about.  What I wrote in my post had to do with all of us trying to listen to each other without assuming any of us know how it feels to be the other person. 

I also agree that all of us should pay attention to our "feelings" about people, their actions and their motives, but I don't believe that alone should be enough to write them off?  I would hope if my husband "assumed" I was being unfaithful that he would talk to me or look for proof before walking out the door.  That was all I was saying - when someone acts solely on assumptions they could be wrong.  I can assume all day why I have been estranged but at the end of the day without knowing for sure I can not change or offer a sincere apology.

Let's face it...there are some MIL's out there that don't respect their DIL's and there are DIL's out there that don't respect their MIL's.  But I would think (there I go assuming) that everyone would agree that there could be no greater loss than when a parent loses a child, no matter how old their child is.  My uncle died in his 50's and I remember my grandmother looking at me and say it is not natural for a child to go before their parent. She had also lost her only girl at the age of one.  Still the pain was so great that she also said she would rather die than go through losing another child (my dad).  She was never the same, and soon after suffered a stroke and within a few months she died.  Going through this estrangment with my son has been like a death and let me tell you the heartache has been at times more than I ever thought I could bare.  It has affected every part of my life from my self esteem, to my ability to communicate with my other kids for fear of offending them, to crying insided everytime I see my sisters grandbabies one of which is 2 weeks younger than my granddaughter than I have never seen.  My marriage has also suffered.  I am on medication, have been in counseling, on multiple prayer lists, and still I have to get up every day and do my best to find joy in my life again.  I would gladly take the disrespect and unwillingness of my DIL to want to be around me, whether deserved or not, just to be able to see my son one more time and tell him I love him.  So no I don't know what it feels like to be in your shoes but neither do you know what if feels like to be in mine.  I wouldn't wish this on my anyone not even my worst enemy.

Lostone,
You have more wisdom than almost anyone I've ever seen. Thank you for explaining it in a more articulate way than I could. 

God bless you, Lostone.  Thank you, Luise (another wise woman) for this site.

What a wonderful "family" we have here. I love reading the posts and following the logic (and lack of logic.)

Lostone, I was so touched by the clarity that you brought to the kind of behavior Prissy's DIL has laid on her for the last what...16 years? What a different perspective to see her as sick inside and disabled. And to get what Prissy's son is up against.

No matter how obnoxious she is, how can anyone hate a person who is sick inside and disabled? What's the sense in making life about hate? Why call anyone names like mutant or freakoid if that person is sick inside and disabled?

I can't get over how that could change things. Not the exiting circumstance and the dead ends because loss is loss but it seems to me like understanding could help
a lot in letting go and moving on.

I am going to take a closer look at my snippy, selfish DIL. No, I don't think she is BLP but she's a pain in the rear. (Yeah, I can see how judgmental that reads.) I have never gotten that she is doing her best but maybe she is. I'm just starting to get that I don't know her monsters any more than she knows mine. Thanks! S/B

None taken, I just wanted to explain that not all DILs are the same and that I feel like I have taken every path possible to get this woman to see that I don't hate her but she will respect me.  I also just wanted to clear up that I really feel like my instincts have been the best thing to happen to me.  It has kept me out of trouble my entire life and it hasn't steered me wrong yet so I have no reason not to trust it.  My instincts have been there for me when I thought other people were and luckily I followed my instincts or things could have been worse.  I think I feel this way because I have a low tolerance of people treating me badly and I won't stay around long enough for the "poo to hit the fan", lol.

I think I'm going to delete my account though.  I think I have gotten all the info I needed from here and I don't want to caught up in the bitterness and lack of logic.  Most of the time this site has been helpful, but I also see that there are those who can't see anyone else's point of view.  So I will say goodbye.

Your call, Bride2Be...our loss. Blessings, Luise

Just got back from lunch with my step daughter and I'm feeling sad that we may have lost Bride2Be after all of the times she spoke so highly of our site. I know members will come and go and that appreciation can easily turn to consternation. However, if you are still there, B2B, please think about just taking a vacation and then coming back. Yes, we may be stuck in our ways...but our ways are divergent and our intentions varied. Your voice has been deeply appreciated.

Ditto... :)

Well when I thought my FH and I were making some progress about his mother, I am reminded that things are still the same and will never change.

I've been having babysitting issues lately.  I only work part time in the morning and I need a babysitter Monday through Friday.  His mother said what days she was available and that didn't work for me.  My mother doesn't see my kids as much as his does, especially throughout the school year so summer is a time for them to spend time with my mom too.  I wanted her to spend time with them since his mother is with my kids at least 3-4 times a week during the school year.  I told him that the days his mother said didn't work for me and that I needed to switch them.  Well that started an argument because he had to change things with his mother and didn't want to hurt her feelings.  After arguing for two days he finally said "fine" and went along with it.  Well yesterday his mother said she wanted to switch her day since she had something to do today (Tuesday).  I said no I can't just change my mother's schedule when she agreed to this long before his mother set up her days and the way I wanted it just made more sense to me.   The way my FH wanted it to be is that the kids go with each grandmother every other day, which means packing clothes every night and different toys for each house and also his mother wants to take the kids bikes.  I thought having to do all that everyday was too much and the grandmothers live on two opposite sides of town.  It made more sense for me to send the kids with one grandmother for two days of the week and three days with my mother (like I said my mother doesn't see the kids anywhere near as much as his mom.  My mom seeing the kids is just as important...isn't it?)  So when he told me what his mother said about not being able to watch them Tuesday, I just said I need a babysitter without problems so I can have my mother do it 5 days a week and his mother can see them after that.  This was all in hopes of having a steady babysitter not trying to remove his mother but to make it easier on me.  I had the same babysitting issues last summer because his mother would cry when she didn't get the kids even though I never stopped her I just had my own sitter and it wasn't a woman who wasn't happy that I broke up with her son(his mother).  Well why did I say that??  My FH told me I was disrespectful to his mother because I didn't include her in my solution with the kids.  He yelled at me, cussed me out and said I was being unreasonable because I wanted a steady babysitter and I didn't want to have to form my life around when his mother can do anything.  If she can't, she can't, no big deal, I thought.  I'm broken right now.   I don't feel like we have any unity, and he will always put his mothers feelings into our relationship even when it doesn't need to be.  I wanted to try to be civil with her, but I can't stand being yelled at as soon as I say something that isn't in her favor.  I'm not sure if I should marry him.  I'm hurt, tired, drained and most of all I feel like I'm not being respected as my kids mother because I can't say anything other than yes to what his mother wants to do. 

I'm so hurt right now.  I feel like there is another woman in my relationship who gets her feelings spared while I have to be belittled because everything I say is "unreasonable and stupid" when it's not up to his standards for his mother.

I need help.

Dear Bride2Be,
I'm so glad you're back!  I have felt so bad for taking everything you said and not taking your feelings in account.

I can relay to you something that happened to me when my second granddaughter was born. It's a little different situation but I hope you can see it through my eyes.

DILs Mother came to their house and watched her 2 days a week and because I'm closer, I watched her 3 days a week while DIL worked.

One day, I had something I had to do; I couldn't babysit.  I called her Mother and asked her if we could switch days.  She said, "I think DIL is expecting you today"

So, I canceled my plans and went. I was really feeling like I was being taken advantage of though. DIL is a little spoiled but even if she is, I love her for being good to me now.

I had a business to run and they knew it but I had to do what they wanted me to do, when they wanted it, to have a good relationship with them. It's just different for an MIL.  I know I was "used".  But, it brought me so close to my Granddaughter!  Blessings can come out of anywhere.

Does your MIL WANT to babysit?  I am really upset that your FH cussed at you, though. That's what worries me.  I hope he's not being disrespectful to you.  There is no reason for him to do that.  I hope I helped!!  I know it's not much. 

Yea she wants to babysit and I would never use her or my own mother.  I just can't always let her have her way in my life.  I understand she has something to do and that fine, that happens.  My mother said she could watch them and make all her appointments for after the time she watches my kids.  My FH and I don't have to ask his mother for anything, she offers everything and gets "hurt" when you say no or when I say I have another solution.  My FH has always said what I say is stupid and unreasonable, especially when it comes to his mother.  Don't I deserve some respect as the mother of his children??  His mom isn't the only mother involved. 

I'm trying to be understanding, but when you're constantly told what you say doesn't matter and it's stupid it's hard to worry about someone else (his mother) when he will belittle me as soon as I don't do what he thinks she deserves.  I have to go now, I'm crying at work.

yes, you should matter.  Your feelings should matter. I'm so sorry you're crying.....this is not good for you and certainly not good for your relationship with your FH.   I don't like that he's cussing you.  I'm sorry but there's no call for that. We do and say things that are not right around the ones we love the most, though.  You should have total say on what goes on with your kids.  Just hold on.  It will be okay.

Bride2be - Please consider going to pre-marriage counseling with your FH before you decide one way or the other.  You have a family to think about and getting everything out in the open with an impartial 3rd party could benefit both of you.

Hi Everyone, I'm heading out but I am going to be thinking about this while I'm gone. Off the top of my head, it seems to me that 5 days with one mom and none with the other was bound to bring increased problems. And I think lostone has a good plan. There are a lot of issues flying around. Lastly, name calling is a variety of abuse in my book...I'm with Prissy on that. I know that's not everyone's take on it but it seems childish and cruel, to me...like you are the only adult. See you later.

I understand that five days with one may seem like it could start a problem.  But I can't worry about who gets what time when I have a job and I need a steady sitter and if my mother is it than so be it.  I guess his mother would've also been mad if I decided to send them to childcare 5 days a week.  It's the same thing.  If I lose my job because I'm trying to accommodate his mother, then what??  It's just a problem for her because it's my mom.  My FH's mother acts like she is the best of the best.  I can't please his mother and quite honestly I'm tired of her needs being met in my relationship.  I'm tired of worrying about a grown woman who can't take anything that's not in her favor.  She has spent so much time with my children and I haven't said a word.  I'm tired of my FH and his mother's whining.  I know if I told him to let his mother figure out the baby sitting schedule since her needs are so important, I would be wrong for not wanting to be involved.  I really can't stand that woman, I'm trying to be a bigger person about it, but deep down I'm tired of a woman who is twice my age acting like a child.  I'm tired of dealing with a woman who thinks she is god's gift and can't understand why I don't like her or how her words and ridiculous reactions push others away.  I'm getting really tired of a woman who supposed to be more mature but reacts like a child because her son's woman isn't acting like she "should", whatever that means.  I'm tired of a woman who can't accept that the relationship has changed between her and her son and she isn't the priority anymore.  I'm sick of the fact that my age seems to dictate the amount of respect given to me and not because I'm a person with feelings too.  I'm tired of this whole "I'm the mom, you have to love me, respect me and if you don't you're not good enough for my son."  It's all becoming a huge headache and it's not the reality I live.  In the world I'm in, you give respect to earn it not demand and act a fool when you aren't as loved as you think you should be. 

Well, I've got to say most of that makes sense to me. I still think you are punishing your FMIL, for not accepting two days and wanting certain days, by giving her no days. I'm also wondering if I might not have done the same thing in the same circumstances. You sound so totally weary of the whole thing.

Your life is multi-sided...homemaker, mother, employee, domestic partner to name a few of your titles. DIL is not primary...nor should it be. I hear you about being worn down by the constant friction. No wonder you're discouraged and also disgusted.

I have actually met women like her and wondered how those around them survived. I've seen them treat DILs like a stray puppy their sons brought home. After taking over a son decades earlier and never ever thinking of relinquishing that hold, the DIL is "taken in". Her "job description" is to fit in and place his mother first, just like the son always has. The MIL continues to reign and her family unit remains in tact. No new family unit is established, psychologically.

This is so different than what Prissy is up against. She is wonderful MIL material but has been terribly hurt by systematic character-assassination. She would never treat you that way. Conversely, your FMIL would treat any would-be DIL exactly the same as she's treating you. She doesn't see you as a unique individual to be honored and respected...she has a formula and you fit in or you pay until you get it and comply.

One thing that I have learned over eight decades is that she is probably not going to change. Any discussions about boundaries will either set her into self pity or she will agree and then ignore the whole thing. I don't think they will fit into her reality. In addition, setting them and then enforcing them is probably going to be a life-long assignment for you and your guy that is either going to support solidarity or tear you apart.

It think lostone has offered the only viable approach and that is counseling. If you and your guy lived a long way away, you might be able to focus on what you need to resolve. Even that is pretty overwhelming. Your being repeatedly called stupid is serious stuff. But being second fiddle to his mother takes up too much of your time and energy. They are both constantly trying to fit you into a mold that works with their dynamics and it just isn't going to work for you. You aren't stupid and you know all of this is off-base.

Well, besides that...I don't have any strong opinions one way or the other.  :D

You sound like my FH saying that I am punishing her.  If I wanted to punish her she wouldn't see them at all. I'm not worried about her being punished, shes not that important to me that I would waste my time on punishing her.  She's just not worth it.  This is about a sitter and how it is more important to have a steady sitter than to cater to a whiny grown woman.  If I were to "punish" her, wouldn't that be the same as punishing my kids???  I love my kids way more than I hate her so I wouldn't hurt my kids to make a point to her.  Thats silly and thats something I'm not.  I hate this in law crap.  Its just useless.

Whoa! Did you read anything else I wrote?

I feel like I'm in your corner. Isn't it OK that your solution seemed brash to me? That doesn't mean that it was.

And I agree that the in-law stuff, as it is presented to you, isn't workable. No way.

Bride2Be,
This whole thing doesn't seem like it's about her. It seems like it's about you and your FH.  You seem to be focusing in on her and not on the real issue and that's you and your FH.

All the anger you have towards her should be re-visited as if she was not in the picture at all.  She seems to be the punching bag of yours and his relationship.

I understood what you said.  I'm just venting right now.  Sorry.

Don't be sorry.....you need to vent and this is the place to do it.  I can tell you, it might be hard on your FH to get rid of his Mother all together but he will do it if that's what it takes to keep you.

There's always a battle at the beginning to be the power person in a relationship and I think that's what is going on here with you and him.  He's not willing to give up the power and you aren't either. I think this is what this is about.

I'm very concerned with his cussing at you and calling you names. That is what is bothering me most.

That's bothering me, too. But it looks to me like both issues are duzies. (sp.?) Your FH and FMIL seem like a matched set to me that think nothing of running right over you, whether it is about the use of foul language and name-calling or whether it's child care. They seem to be bonded in a way that excludes you having a vote. Prissy called it, it's about supremacy. You are supposed to get that they make the rules...and knuckle down. Name-calling is so insidious. You get called something bad long enough and it gets to be part of you. (Look at the kids who get called stupid.) Your guy can't bear to think he might make his mom feel bad but making you feel bad doesn't seem to be a problem. I agree with Prissy. Look at your relationship...your future MIL may just be a mirror.

Good Morning Ladies!!

Well once again my FH mother wants to rearrange the days to accommodate her for baby sitting.  My FH asked me last night at around 9:30pm to ask my mom to watch the kids today (Tuesday) and let his mom take them Thursday and Friday.  All I said was "I can't do that" and I left it alone.  I'm not going to argue about this anymore.  I have decided to wash my hands of it and let him deal with it.  If he wants to accommodate his mother, fine, but he has to do the talking from now on.  Apparently me saying my mother can watch them everyday no problem is punishing his mother, but his mother wanting to changes days two weeks in a row to accommodate her isn't inconveniencing anyone.  I talked to my mom about the whole thing and she said as much as it may hurt her to think that his mother spending time with the kids is most important, she isn't going to fuss.  She said she won't make a scene but she might not want to do this whole babysitting thing if it keeps changing.  I totally understand where she is coming from and I don't blame her.  So here I am feeling bad about my mom and the fact that she doesn't see my kids as much as his does, but I won't say anything for fear of just wanting to "punish" or "hurt" his mother's feelings.  I left home early this morning so he could find his own sitter and so I won't be accused of taking the kids from her.

I hate to think this but I'm wondering if she is doing this so she can get the kids all the days she wanted regardless of what else may be going on in our life.  Well whatever the case I know my FH will make sure she is content and happy first and then worry about everything else. 

Hi B2B, Where is all of this taking you? You decide, she decides, he decides. You decide that he decides how to deal with what she decides. He decides that she decides, then you decide to not decide. It never seems to get to a joint decision. It always about deciding what to do about what she decides that he decides is OK. How can you stand it?

I'm not sure where this is taking me.  I don't want to argue about his mother anymore and I refuse to have to cave to her desires constantly, but what can I do?  My FH is the quintessential son and who am I to ask that he be my husband first?  I wrote him a letter last week.  I described how and why I love him, how I TOTALLY understand his love for his mother and where it stems from.  I also said that because he grew up with his mom and it was only the two of them he sometimes carries that same mentality now and lashes out at me as if I'm the enemy or I'm trying to separate the two.  He still can't understand why I feel like the enemy but at least I got that off my chest and in a calm, constructive manner.  I wanted to talk to her to make things civil at least, but I don't see the point if there will be a struggle at home.

I'm not going to dwell on it, he loves his mother and is willing to put strain on every other relationship in order to maintain the relationship they had when he was a child.

I see the wisdom and the compassion. I don't see you not dwelling on it.

It feels off-balance to me but that's just one person's take. I feel that parental respect is one thing and it is a many-spendored thing but...you are establishing a new family unit in which the two of you, (not the three of you) are in charge.

Your FMIL can be loved, respected, included, considered and consulted but she is external. I don't get that she knows that and I don't get that he knows that and so your position as joint-head of your own home is constantly being compromised. (Again, my take, of course.)

I get that you don't want to mess with the intense dynamics between mother and son. You probably couldn't...but they still affect you deeply. They won't/can't let go and so he won't/can't move on. He can move out, father children and plan marriage but she reigns and he apparently isn't going to challenge that.

Sometimes it seems like that's OK with you and often you sound more than miserable. I would be.

Where my son is concerned, I am great at giving unsolicited advice. They share what is going on with them and I stick my nose into their business and give them my 2 cents worth without a qualm. They listen...they always respectfully listen. They tell me they actually like to get my take on stuff or they wouldn't share what was going on...but...here it comes...they then do as they please. That's why it works. I feel heard and honored and they feel (and are) free and independent. It's their home, their family unit (they have a love bird) and they have every right to run it as they choose just like I run my own home as I choose.

I think you have a bear by the tail. Does he ever treat her with contempt and call her stupid? (I didn't think so.)

Hello Ladies,

I really can't remember ever wanting anything from my DIL. but I did love her and I welcomed her into my family and home. What happened ? I can't even begin to tell you but it has gone on now for a good 10 yrs.

I really need some honest opinions and all your prayers because I am really bitter now and I don't want a relationship with her or my son.

I do see them on occasion but there is tension and I don't think anyone is comfortable.

I will try to give you some brief history... First of all I want you all to know that one of the few times that I went to my Dil to talk, she did tell  me that  when I am around my son, she feels very pushed aside.I have tried to build her up in his presence etc.. but nothing ever helped.

I did finally decide that I shouldn't really be angry with my DIL because she never had any obligation to me and I am not her mother. My son is a different story, he not only allowed her to treat me very badly but he helped her !!

I have been discredited as a Mother, Grandmother and as a Woman. I have been told I am moody, I hold grudges, and need anger management and yes, I have been through all 5 stages of ' Death of a Mother in law'. That's just a  few things that I have endured.

On the times I was allowed to be a MOM or Grandma it was always on their terms and I would try only to hear a lot of negative stuff the next time she ( DIL ) decided she was mad at me again. I have even been told that I don't need to actually say anything because I speak in secret messages !!!!!!!!!! What in the world is that ?

Yes, I'm tired and tired of it. I love them but love only goes so far. I have asked God to forgive me for how I feel but I just can't help it. I never call them, I never go to their home, give advice or anything at all.

It is nice to have a place to talk to other shafted Moms... God Bless you all

Dear Mary and Anna,
I've been in every stage you have....for too many years to count. It is a pattern that seems to repeat itself unless you get a DIL who is not an insecure woman (Prissy wanted to call them something else but I had to intervene)

These women need total control and unfortunately my son must need that. He's totally contolled.  When I am with them, I am not myself.  She makes life a total hell.  Walking on eggshells doesn't make a happy place here.

I am sorry, so sorry for both of you and the others here who have to walk down this horrible road.  There is no answer for it.  Our sons allowed this and that hurts beyond belief.