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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: tryingmybest on June 09, 2012, 02:26:24 PM

Title: Need some support here...
Post by: tryingmybest on June 09, 2012, 02:26:24 PM
After the last few years this become a consistent behavior pattern. Sons want to do something, DIL's want to go a different way, and that's how it goes. I say nothing, I smile I am super supportive because I know getting involved will only muddy the water, and it's their life and so on and so on, but when did they lose their ability to assert themselves? They sure as heck did when they were younger. They have become POD People... ???
This whole marriage is a partnership, 50/50 and so on...wow so not happening!
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: Doe on June 09, 2012, 02:42:13 PM
I hear ya, TMB.  Can you imagine what that type of MIL that DIL is going to turn into?   There's going to be a serious need for more online DIL forums at that point.... ;D
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: DivaGirlDIL on June 09, 2012, 06:29:47 PM
From a DIL's perspective it might not be what it seems.  I love my DH but he has a lot to do with past history in me getting the blame.  Some guys just don't want to hurt their parents feelings so they blame it on the wife.  My DH is classic for it and I want to smack him upside the head.  For some reason he still feels them over me.
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: luise.volta on June 09, 2012, 07:00:33 PM
We need to be very careful not to generalize about this. It happens when it does...and it doesn't always happen. Sending love...
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: Lillycache on June 10, 2012, 06:23:21 AM
My son stood up to my DIL.  When my DIL issued the ultimatum to him "Pick her or me".  He was conflicted.  No one should have to "pick" between a spouse and a parent.  Why can't he have both a mother and a wife?  But apparently not.  So now after a few years it boils down to him calling me every 4-6 weeks, and bringing the kids over to see me every 3 or 4 months. I guess I am fortunate that he has not ousted me from his life totally.  I'll take what I can get. It's easier for him to not buck the system.  There was a time afterall, that she would not allow him to bring the kids to see me.  I didn't see the GKs or my son for over a year.
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: luise.volta on June 10, 2012, 09:47:49 AM
My MIL put up with the impossible and unimaginable when DS and I married at age 21. I still can't believe how tolerant and understanding she was with a DIL who couldn't boil water or manage a checkbook. (Well, it was almost that bad!) We were friends long after her son and I ended our 18 year marriage. She lived to be 104 and we were close until she passed on.  Her DS loved both of us and was never confused about who was his mom and who was his wife. We weren't interchangeable and there was plenty of love to go around. I look back and see that much of this was tradition and personalities and some it was the times....we married in the 40s. My life was fuller with her in it and she had the daughter she'd always wanted. Clearly a win/win. She spoke crossly to me twice in the 50 plus years we were friends; once when I swore in front of my 2 year-old and he repeated it and once when I let the dog lick my plate. (Both justifiable. LOL!)

When I became a MIL, I had a role model. Still one son married a "choose between your mother and me" woman. There wasn't anything either of us could do about it. His loyalty was to her and we seldom connected while they were together. After they divorced...he eventually met his Soulmate. I lucked out this time. She is always there for me as I am for her and she encourages DS to spend one-on-one time with me. Then she and I do the same thing. :-)

What I know is that I offered the same warmth and caring to both women. I didn't change. And my son loved both wife and mother without conflict. That didn't change, either. The opposite also happens, as we have often seen here. I could have been the "choose between your wife and me" MIL. It is a kind of inner pathology it seems to me and doesn't have much to do with the other players in the drama it creates. That's why we can't make sense of it or change it. Sending love...
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: Doe on June 11, 2012, 07:23:49 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on June 10, 2012, 09:47:49 AM
It is a kind of inner pathology it seems to me and doesn't have much to do with the other players in the drama it creates.

This is so spot on in my case too, Luise, but I'm curious - did you have to work your way to this point of view or did you always know what what going on.   I mean, did you go through a "what have I done to cause this?" or was it so obvious to you about the inner pathology all along?
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: Lillycache on June 11, 2012, 07:40:06 AM
I have done a lot of thinking about this "Pick her or Me" phenomenon.  No matter who is issuing the ultimatum.. DIL or MIL... I wonder the psychology behind it, or more importantly the sociological reasons.  What causes women (and it IS mostly women) to desire complete control or to be unable to relenquish control.   You more than likely never hear about a husband telling his wife to "pick" between him or her family. (I realize it does happen, and I am trying not to generalize)  but in all honesty, that is very rare.  Most times it is a woman making this demand.  WHY? 

Here is what I have come up with.  Throughout history, women have not had the power men have enjoyed.  It is human nature to seek control and power.  Since women never had the ability to seek power from men as they were bigger and stronger, they have naturally turned to other women to fulfill the power fix.  ALSO... human beings have always competed for resources.  Food, Shelter, and money.  Women really never had the ability to compete outright for these things.  These were provided for them by men.  Therefore, MEN became the principle resourse of women.  Competing for the strongest and best provider of the lot sometimes meant that they (the woman) AND her offspring had the best chance of survival.   So women became very competitive against one another. Women learned to distrust the motives of other women. So often we here about "what did she REALLY mean by that" and even the most innocent statements are analysed ad nauseum. (as in my case with DILs FOO)

Although we have made great strides in the last 100 years or so in the area of equality and the ability to provide for ourselves and our kids, some of these old inbred instincts remain.  A man is something you fight for and win from other women.  It doesn't matter that the "other woman" is his mother, she is still a female.  Hard-wired behavior is seldom recognized for what it is and us usually unconscious.   Women find all sorts of bogus excuses for their distrust and dislike, and will search tirelessly for evidence to prove their opinions.... However, I truely believe a big part of it is ingrained, and beyond the control of many women.

Now I may be all wet and full of baloney... but since my DIL said that to my son in front of me, I have been bothered by it.  Also, I have heard it SOOOOO many times from other mothers of sons.  This is all I could come up with.  All mothers Of sons can't be crazy, mean, manipulative, bossy, demanding, intrusive.... etc...  lol!!
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: luise.volta on June 11, 2012, 08:54:13 AM
D - My elder DS married twice. it was his second wife who hated me. The first one and I got along really well (and still do) but she left him because of his blatant infidelity which he called 'open marriage.' Not so, she was never open to the idea. He then found a woman he could be faithful to who hated her mother and they sang the "Somebody Done Me Wrong Song" together until his untimely death. He started hating me when he entered his teens. Having a second DIL who joined him in hating me fanned the flames. And, yes, I felt our estrangement represented some kind of a serious lack in me. He was a wonderful guy...successful...a great dad. In my 40s, (half a lifetime ago,) I was sure I must be the root of his hatred and it had to be my fault. I couldn't see the woods for the trees.

When it happened again with my younger son, it came on top of a solid relationship of mutual respect and understanding and I knew I had nothing to do with it. He never turned on me and I know he suffered from his 'incarceration' but he also gave it his best shot...which included excluding me from his life. I never felt unloved and knew I had nothing to do with it.
I respected him deeply and backed off but I gotta' admit I was dancing in the streets when he ended his marriage.

L - Interesting and thought-provoking. There are probably multiple theories and causes of what many of us are up against here. We also have MILs who won't let go when they still have their provider at home and the child, DS, was in many way a liability not an asset. In a lot of those cases there is a DIL who wants to relate and feels terribly left out. Maybe some MILs may feel DS is a 'possession' and will be a future asset when the existing provider passes. I think there is something really tangible in your theory, even though we (gratefully) see many instances where it doesn't apply. That's why I have used the word 'pathology.' Ingrained may be a better one or DNA or the unconscious. Whatever the word, the syndrone wrecks havoc.

Sending love...
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: Lillycache on June 11, 2012, 09:05:02 AM
A man is a man is a man... son or husband... and asset to a family.  A provider. In ancient times men were assets, women were users of the resources provided by men. They were liabiltites.  Even if the behavior is done by a MIL, I still think the same principles apply.  Could a son be seen as an asset in old age?  Women who engage in this destructive exclusionism of other women seem to me to still be competing with a perceived threat....  and like I said, are probably not even aware of the psychology behind it.   By the time it gets ugly, positions are set and preconceived notions have hardened.  Like you said... it wreaks havoc on the family.
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: luise.volta on June 11, 2012, 09:08:24 AM
I know in Asia and other countries, girl children are seen as embarrassing and disposable. We have a long way to go...
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: herbalescapes on June 11, 2012, 02:05:15 PM
Women have always been assets to families and survival.  They may have been seen as merely users of resources and not valuable, but let's face it, the human race would have died out generations ago if not for women.  (ok, same as men).  That sabertooth tiger the man hunted wasn't very useful til the woman skinned it, cooked it, and used the skin to make clothes.  Just because societies have and sometimes continue to denigrate women's contributions doesn't mean women haven't been making significant contributions to society all along.  I know my husband doesn't really appreciate all I do; he doesn't really recognize that his professional contributions wouldn't be so great if i weren't keeping the homefires burning. 

I still think the whole MIL vs DIL is a big PR hoax perpetuated by men.  Many MILs and DILs who don't get along would if their DHs and DSs would "stoop" to doing the traditional woman's role of communication.  Did you ever see the episodes of that show Everyone Loves Raymond where Debra and Marie are feuding?  Ray fuels the feud so he gets his wife and mother trying to outdo themselves in being #1 to him.  I think that goes on more (tho maybe not so obviously as in a sitcom) than we think.
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: luise.volta on June 11, 2012, 03:26:15 PM
"I still think the whole MIL vs DIL is a big PR hoax perpetuated by men." Oh, I wish that were true...but it did make for good TV plots.
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: tryingmybest on June 11, 2012, 06:28:45 PM
Boy this got deep, and I really think you are on to something! Would really explain the "ready to rumble " attitude that hits some DILs and MIL 's as soon as everyone walks down the aisle.
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: luise.volta on June 11, 2012, 06:31:02 PM
'Ready to Rumble'...how apt! Sending love...
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: herbalescapes on June 11, 2012, 06:56:43 PM
I forgot to make my comment on a 50-50 marriage.  A marriage can be 50-50 without every aspect being 50-50.  Look at parenthood.  The conception may be 50-50 (no wisecracks!) but the pregnancy and labor/delivery are decidedly one-sided.  As you raise your kids, one parent may be more of the disciplinarian or give more help with homework, or chauffeur more, or volunteer in the extracurriculars more, but that doesn't mean both parents aren't equally involved.

In a marriage, one spouse might do more housework or earn more income or make more financial decisions.  That doesn't mean the marriage isn't 50-50.  It could be that some of the DILs take charge of holidays/vacations/visiting while the DSs decide on where to send the kids to school or how to spend a tax refund or decide how to invest money.  The marriage may be 50-50 overall, but not if you focus just on how the spouses interact with the two sides of the family.  Or it could be that the DS, unbeknownst to his FOO,  had an affair or gambled away their lifesavings or ran up an astronomical cc bill so he pretty much has to go along with whatever his wife says on pretty much everything as penance.
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: luise.volta on June 11, 2012, 07:06:56 PM
My Take: Marriage is 100%/100%...both doing their best...which may change from moment to moment. (As in, sometimes my best may look like someone else's worst.) Sending love...
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: tryingmybest on June 12, 2012, 04:54:23 AM
Herbal I think you are 100% correct that no one knows what goes on in a marriage, and many times problems blamed on  a DIL come straight from DS. The dynamic that both amuses me and infuriates me is this idea we will be rewarded by contact with AC and GKs and punished by "time out" from the privilege of their presence. My DS did that to me once, clearly on orders from FDIL. I listened to his lecture quietly, and when he ended it with I need to not talk to you, or see you for a while" , I simply said " I think that might do both of us a lot of good ", and hung up the phone. I truly think he expected blubbering "apologies" and promises to "behave". What he got was the cut off he requested from his FOO. it lasted until HE reached out a month later, and if he hadn't we would still be cut off. I will not allow anyone to use emotional abuse and manipulation to control me. I never did it to him, and I sure as heck will not allow him to do it to me. 8)
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: Lillycache on June 12, 2012, 05:37:46 AM
Quote from: tryingmybest on June 12, 2012, 04:54:23 AM
Herbal I think you are 100% correct that no one knows what goes on in a marriage, and many times problems blamed on  a DIL come straight from DS. The dynamic that both amuses me and infuriates me is this idea we will be rewarded by contact with AC and GKs and punished by "time out" from the privilege of their presence. My DS did that to me once, clearly on orders from FDIL. I listened to his lecture quietly, and when he ended it with I need to not talk to you, or see you for a while" , I simply said " I think that might do both of us a lot of good ", and hung up the phone. I truly think he expected blubbering "apologies" and promises to "behave". What he got was the cut off he requested from his FOO. it lasted until HE reached out a month later, and if he hadn't we would still be cut off. I will not allow anyone to use emotional abuse and manipulation to control me. I never did it to him, and I sure as heck will not allow him to do it to me. 8)

My DIL did not allow me to see my GKs for over a year.  She also expected me to cry, beg, apologize, and lay prostate at her door for the privilege.  She even told me as much........ AFTER she rubbed in the fact of how I missed my youngest GSs 1st birthday bash, and Older GSs first communion.   She told me that she waited for me to call and beg and asked her what I could do to be allowed to see the kids.   I won't let ANYONE do that to me.  I told her that she would never be able to hold those kids over my head like Damocles sword.   The end result was that now DS is "allowed" to bring the kids to see me once in a while.  Not exactly the kind of grandparenting I had in mind, but it will do. 
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: DivaGirlDIL on June 12, 2012, 05:44:18 AM
My question is what happen to cause it?  Something happened.  I know my ILs like to blame just me not saying this is your case.  But they don't place any blame on themselves.  I know I have my faults I wish they saw theirs.
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: DivaGirlDIL on June 12, 2012, 06:12:04 AM
Sorry if that came off rude new and don't know much background.
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: luise.volta on June 12, 2012, 06:46:01 AM
My take is that sometimes something happens and sometimes it is deeper and much more pathological than that. We can wish others would see things differently and act differently and we are still in the domain of wishes. Beyond serious personal issues, if that sounds better than pathology...we have personalities and personality clashes...plus differing perspectives and expectations. It can be pretty intense and sometimes becomes unresolvable. When it is just parent and adult child with no one else involved...the relationship can spin out. Each one of us has our own set of complexities and they are ever-changing. Sending love...
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: DivaGirlDIL on June 12, 2012, 07:02:22 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on June 12, 2012, 06:46:01 AM
My take is that sometimes something happens and sometimes it is deeper and much more pathological than that. We can wish others would see things differently and act differently and we are still in the domain of wishes. Beyond serious personal issues, if that sounds better than pathology...we have personalities and personality clashes...plus differing perspectives and expectations. It can be pretty intense and sometimes becomes unresolvable. When it is just parent and adult child with no one else involved...the relationship can spin out. Each one of us has our own set of complexities and they are ever-changing. Sending love...

That is so very true.  My mother and I are very different.  We even parent different.  Drives my mother crazy but I don't care.  It drives her crazy but I really don't care.  My mother was very controlling and didn't embrass me being SW.  I won't do that to DD.
We only know what we here and see but sometimes it goes deeper then that. 
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: jdtm on June 12, 2012, 07:04:16 AM
QuoteMy question is what happen to cause it?

My situation is relatively the same as that of Lillycache.  Everyone asked me the same question - after all, we must have done something wrong.  I suspect we did although I never knew what it was.  Perhaps I frowned when I was not supposed to, or perhaps I spoke to someone I was not supposed to, or perhaps I - who knows.  I also was criticized for not attending our granddaughter's birthday party - of course, no one asked me nor was I given a date or time or place (it was held at a special center in a nearby city and to this day, I do not know where).  Incidents as this happened again and again.  She wanted her husband's family and friends and neighbours out of her life.  Eventually, there was a divorce (although she left our son and abandoned her children).  Our now ex-DIL tends to have people in her life until ....  She has no real friends and her immediate family tolerates her but even they don't understand why they, too, are ostracized.  It just does not make sense.

I believe this is because of a warped "thinking" system - some refer to as a mental health disorder or personality disorder.  I used to believe that everyone had a conscience as I do, but I now believe that one's conscience is similar to one's athletic or linguistic or artistic or etc. abilities - some have a large amount and some have a negligible amount.  I aslo believe that empathy is far rarer than we would like to think.  The luck of the gene pool - so to say.

So, sometimes there is no reason.  I like to say that "one cannot reason with one who can not reason".  Unless you have lived it, it is very difficult to grasp this punishing and humiliating and demeaning way of life.  We put up with this to see our grandchildren and son/daughter, but eventually, we reach our limits.  DivaGirlDIL - I don't think you are rude just lucky enough not to have lived this hell.  And hopefully, you never will need to "understand" as this is so difficult to "understand" - even for me.
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: pam1 on June 12, 2012, 11:26:08 AM
Thought provoking conversation!

In my case, the problems were long before me and my time.  I was just new and it was easier for a group to gang up on the new member.  One of the red flags I should have noticed was the "tests" I was given when I first met my in laws.  In even talking to some of the female in laws (before I pulled away from them) they actually voiced that I "didn't seem to care to prove myself to them" as if it were a problem. 

That kind of mind set is not something I could ever change.  I'm not sure why these folks feel so entitled to have grown adults prove to them (what?  I still don't know!.) I also think by just observing them they operate out of fear and insecurity.  Another thing I could never change.
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: Pooh on June 12, 2012, 11:27:11 AM
Quote from: Lillycache on June 12, 2012, 05:37:46 AM
AFTER she rubbed in the fact of how I missed my youngest GSs 1st birthday bash, and Older GSs first communion.

I would have shrugged and said, "You missed a free cruise, a free beach house for a week, a diamond necklace birthday present and a massage and manicure for Mother's Day."  Guess we both missed out.

Yeah, yeah...I know...I'm evil
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: luise.volta on June 12, 2012, 12:36:30 PM
I get we sure gotta' learn 'When to Hold 'Em and When To Fold 'Em.' Sending love...
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: NewMama on June 13, 2012, 05:23:34 AM
I think a lot of people who've never had the misfortune of being estranged from their adult children think the parents must've done something wrong. There certainly are some situations involving parents who did 'earn' that estrangement (abuse, addictions, serious mental instability) but I think the vast majority fall in another category where differences of opinion or personalities get blown out of proportion or just don't mesh well. A lot of people are willing to accept certain quirks in their FOO but the exact same quirk in the ILs may not go over well. Also, when you're given a list of conditions or do's & don'ts (outside basic common courtesy), I really think you're being set up to fail and then the other person can go "See, it's HER fault things are like this" when one of the conditions is breached. When you step into a situation where you have to prove yourself to be worthy from the get-go, it's pretty much doomed (whether you're a DIL or MIL). Same thing if your DIL or MIL brings existing insecurity or jealousy issues to the table, it probably won't end well.

I think when you're stuck in a situation where the other person is playing games, the smart thing to do is take yourself out of the game. There's no way you can win. IMHO, you ladies who refused to jump through hoops or beg did the right thing.
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: Lillycache on June 13, 2012, 06:04:52 AM
Quote from: NewMama on June 13, 2012, 05:23:34 AM
I think a lot of people who've never had the misfortune of being estranged from their adult children think the parents must've done something wrong. There certainly are some situations involving parents who did 'earn' that estrangement (abuse, addictions, serious mental instability) but I think the vast majority fall in another category where differences of opinion or personalities get blown out of proportion or just don't mesh well. A lot of people are willing to accept certain quirks in their FOO but the exact same quirk in the ILs may not go over well. Also, when you're given a list of conditions or do's & don'ts (outside basic common courtesy), I really think you're being set up to fail and then the other person can go "See, it's HER fault things are like this" when one of the conditions is breached. When you step into a situation where you have to prove yourself to be worthy from the get-go, it's pretty much doomed (whether you're a DIL or MIL). Same thing if your DIL or MIL brings existing insecurity or jealousy issues to the table, it probably won't end well.

I think when you're stuck in a situation where the other person is playing games, the smart thing to do is take yourself out of the game. There's no way you can win. IMHO, you ladies who refused to jump through hoops or beg did the right thing.

Excellent post.  It's really hard to "play the game" when one is not told the rules.   Imagine someone trying to play football without having a clue what to do or having protective padding.  Soon you would be toast.   In my case, I was blissfully ignorant  for 10 years not realizing I was doing or saying those horrible vile things I have been accused of.   Of course, no one has told me what the horrible vile things were.   So you have to sit and scratch your head and go over every single conversation of 10 years to try to figure it out.   I have stopped that, as at this point I am done caring.   I suspect that I never really did anything horrible and vile, as I certainly would remember it.   There was no way I was going to win that crowd over.   I didn't even realize I was being tested.
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: Footloose on June 13, 2012, 12:24:32 PM
Quote from: Lillycache on June 13, 2012, 06:04:52 AM
Quote from: NewMama on June 13, 2012, 05:23:34 AM
I think a lot of people who've never had the misfortune of being estranged from their adult children think the parents must've done something wrong. There certainly are some situations involving parents who did 'earn' that estrangement (abuse, addictions, serious mental instability) but I think the vast majority fall in another category where differences of opinion or personalities get blown out of proportion or just don't mesh well. A lot of people are willing to accept certain quirks in their FOO but the exact same quirk in the ILs may not go over well. Also, when you're given a list of conditions or do's & don'ts (outside basic common courtesy), I really think you're being set up to fail and then the other person can go "See, it's HER fault things are like this" when one of the conditions is breached. When you step into a situation where you have to prove yourself to be worthy from the get-go, it's pretty much doomed (whether you're a DIL or MIL). Same thing if your DIL or MIL brings existing insecurity or jealousy issues to the table, it probably won't end well.

I think when you're stuck in a situation where the other person is playing games, the smart thing to do is take yourself out of the game. There's no way you can win. IMHO, you ladies who refused to jump through hoops or beg did the right thing.

Excellent post.  It's really hard to "play the game" when one is not told the rules.   Imagine someone trying to play football without having a clue what to do or having protective padding.  Soon you would be toast.   In my case, I was blissfully ignorant  for 10 years not realizing I was doing or saying those horrible vile things I have been accused of.   Of course, no one has told me what the horrible vile things were.   So you have to sit and scratch your head and go over every single conversation of 10 years to try to figure it out.   I have stopped that, as at this point I am done caring.   I suspect that I never really did anything horrible and vile, as I certainly would remember it.   There was no way I was going to win that crowd over.   I didn't even realize I was being tested.
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This is EXACTLY what is happening to me.  Her family has never accepted me as I am so different in personality.  It's as bad as getting Democrats and Republicans to agree on anything.  Good people make up both sides but we can see by history that they will NEVER get along.  I am a diehard survivor and optimist.  This, all by itself gets me into trouble with her and her FOO who are needy, complaining doom-saying folk! I find simple pleasures and am at most times a very happy girl. Some crabby ppl hate this and think it is a put on.  Attitude is Latitude! "How can she be happy?"   All I can say is, "Just WATCH me!"

While I remain as flexible as Gumby!

I so agree w/ Louise in that pathology is the reason for most of these situations.  Someone is broken and unwilling to make the situation better.  It takes time and energy and they are simply too busy to think about it.  I am the lowest of their priories in relationships and it shows.

My poor DIL does have a good heart but she had a very hard childhood with WAY too much control from her parents.  She trusts no one and I'm not even sure she fully trusts my son but he is the caregiver and she is fully dependent upon him for money and emotional support.  She is needy and passive aggressive.  She will laugh about something to your face and then let it come up and stew in her mind later.  This "download" process turns my well intended behavior or remarks into the unacceptable.

I wish I could enroll her into a conflict management class!  My goodness!  If you have a problem with someone, before taking it to the extreme, talk about it!  Give feedback to the behavior as soon as it happens or very shortly after.  Be open and let the perceived offender know that a problem actually exists.  They can be like me and be absolutely clueless as to your sensitivities.  I lost my crystal ball and I cannot read your mind!

Another possible reason for time out could also be jealousy by the DIL and/or FOO. I spend quality time with the kids and my Son and my DIL. DIL cannot bear to miss out on a single poopie diaper, let alone some adventure that involves the kids or my son.  She is not at all interested in adventure and takes change or the unknown very hard.  When I had to pay medical bills for my pound puppy, after the petcare insurance denied the claim as prexisting, my son showed his jealousy by remarking that that money could have gone to him and his family.  Can you believe that?!  NONE of anyone's business how I spend my money, except DH.  I also believe he feels slighted as i now do more for his children then he and his wife.  in HIS opinion, of course.  Reality dictates otherwise but reality is out of their reach at times.  Mine too, it seems, as far as unmet expectations of our relationship go. 

In looking back, I failed the test too, my fellow offenders.  DIL asked after the wedding what I was going to buy my son for Father's Day.  I joked and said, well, he's not MY father.  NOT the answer they were fishing for as it turns out!  LOL!!!  I took way too much abuse from them in the way they continued to control me and I let it happen.  If ANYONE deserved to call a time out or punish poor behavior and rudeness, it should have been ME....but I kept my mouth shut, walked gingerly and took my crumbs.  Bad treatment was better than no contact.  I am the mom, the wiser p, take the high road because I want so to see my GKs. I should be patient and take it. Took my crumbs for years and years but no more!

Oh well, I only know how to be me and that's good enough for me and my true loved ones!

Hugs!  <3
......this too shall pass!

p.s.  i often think of the libation and liberation in the movie, Fried Green Tomatoes when I feel our strength  growing, read Poohs statements and funny ideas. "TAWANDA!!!!"
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: lancaster lady on June 13, 2012, 12:48:12 PM
It's amazing how different we feel when we reach that ''No more'' stage .
I think they realise it too , when we stop contacting them .
They came looking for me when I reached that 'no more' stage .
Still the child pushing the parent to the limit, do they ever grow up ?
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: luise.volta on June 13, 2012, 01:12:58 PM
Reclaimed self respect. Priceless! Sending love...
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: Pooh on June 14, 2012, 10:14:02 AM
"I'm older and have more insurance!"

Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: pam1 on June 14, 2012, 02:23:14 PM
LOL Pooh and Footloose!

Footlose, I can really relate.  I used to think just talking it out could solve anything.  Unfortunately not everyone can do that.  It took me a long time to realize that not only anything I did different (even in my own personal life that does not affect them one iota) but even in *voicing* a different point of view or opinion was taken as very threatening on their end.  Hard to believe there are people out there like that, I'm still sort of in shock!
Title: Re: Need some support here...
Post by: Footloose on June 14, 2012, 02:48:10 PM
Pam, Shocked is the word!  Shocked that I actually shat him out and he could be like that?  Did he come from ME? 

Alien Encounter: Invasion of the Body Snatchers?

LOL!!!