My in-laws live two thousand miles awhile. In the past, we've gotten together about every 5 years. About three years ago, we had a serious rift. They offended me greatly. I told them how I felt. My dh tried to intervene. They don't get it. They never will get it. Nothing has changed. As I could't accept their "business as usual" approach dh and I established some boundaries with them. They violated the boundaries this past holiday and when dh called them out, all hell broke loose with them. My fil had a tantrum and said some very nasty things about me.
The 5 year trip is being planned by sister-in-law. DH knows I won't go and he is fine with it. The problem is he wants to take our pre-teen children. He feels his parents are getting older and wants our kids to meet cousins they have never met. I feel that this rewards his parents bad behavior as they will be thrilled dh is leaving me behind to attend.
Does anyone have any insight? I love my dh very much and it is driving a wedge between us.
Sorry, if they can't be civil to *the Mom*, they can't spend time with the kids. I wouldn't trust the IL's to "not" bad-mouth you to them. And at that pre-teen age, their ideas are pretty maleable, without even having the maturity to understand that some people are just mean.
If it's really about "the cousins" then change your plans and go see the siblings, as a family. The IL's don't have to be involved in this kind of meet up.
My take: I am looking at your statement that your ILs offended you greatly. It sounds like the trouble started there. People are the way they are and when we are offended it is often because we are the way we are. In a situation where we're literally stuck with people we didn't necessarily choose, and visa versa, wanting them to be and act differently isn't often a workable plan. Your ILs wanted to move past it because they are still how they are. Your husband sees your point but wants to honor them and he wants your children to honor them. By his doing so, are you feeling dishonored? It sound like your reaction to whatever they did is at the core of the entire thing. We don't need to know what that was. Agreeing with you or not isn't a solution.
In the name of honoring your husband, who continues to honor them...why not let go of being right and be the bigger person? I would suggest you back way up no matter how hard that is and let them know that you overreacted and you're past it. Pull the family back together before you become a role model to your children in a way that won't serve them. Being right is a lonely place. Sending love...
Liz, I'm sorry you're going through this. Just so I'm clear about it, were your ILs aware of what they'd done? Was it spelled out to them at the time of their bad behavior? If so, and it was something they could change and they continued to do it, I agree w/Scoop.
If OTOH they were not informed in a way they could understand, I might take a different view. In my experience as a DIL and a MIL, we can't stop behavior we aren't aware of. My (former) ILs treated me horribly. It was never discussed or explained to them; perhaps they just weren't aware of what they were doing. As a MIL, my DIL has vaguely stated that she hates us but can't give DS anything we can do to change what bothers her. The result is that we feel awkward and frustrated with the situation; I prefer to see DS w/o DIL because when she's around I'm constantly watching my behavior for...what exactly? When our visits w/DS are limited due to DIL's feelings about us it adds to the pain.
My SM & DF haven't been very loving or supportive of me. It hurts me to spend a lot of time w/them. Rather than cut my DC out of knowing their extended family, I decided to let them forge their own relationships with SM & DF which have been very successful for one and not so much for the other (although she isn't really aware of it, thank goodness.)
My DS's MIL handled things differently w/her ILs and caused a huge rift in their family that coincidently affects DH & I because DIL learned how to treat us by watching her DM cut off her DF's side of the family (who are actually pretty nice people, it turns out.)
I try to err on the side of love and acceptance, if at all possible. Best wishes to you all.
Thanks for all of your wisdom. I will be more specific about the offense. My dad died suddenly and my mil called me 8 weeks later to express her condolences. When she stated she "wish she could have done more" I responded "you could have called sooner". She then hung up on me. I think it took several weeks for my dh to process this. And he was also grieving my dad. But when he finally spoke to her about it, she denied it... She said we were disconnected. But she had never called me back. Dh asked her to apologize and three weeks later I received a short note with " I am sorry for whatever I did". I am a big believer specific feedback. I wrote both ILs notes...using "feeling" statements. I never heard from my MIL and my FIL (who is not blameless) wrote back with statements of excuses. My dh has about 5 conversations with them. They don't get it and they never will get it.
We went to marriage counseling. She encouraged bondaries. They have never been a part of our lives... So that was easy. They are not to send me gifts or call the home phone. When they travel through town, they have to stay at a hotel. They have driven through twice and met dh for lunch and met dh with the kids for dinner. They have never asked specifically to see me or a desire to talk to me. When dh said I would not join them, there response was "ok".
It was working out well until FIL called on christmas. My dh called him out.... I was called nasty names and my FIL was furious. Once again my dh went through the specifics...FIL accused me of breaking up the family and he said " I am damned if I do and damned if I don't if I apologize". So I don't think any apology is coming my way.
And the cherry on this cupcake.... My FIL is a member of the clergy.
Our kids have no relationship with them... A yearly phone call on their bday. And my dh has spoken to them about this. Nothing changed.
Oh, I know that one! Nine days after my eldest son suddenly died of a sleep apnea induced stroke, his widow sent me a letter telling me that I was the wicked witch of the west and had been the worst mother in the world. Nine days! I knew neither of us was up to her declaration of war. Keeping my distance was easy because geographically and socially we didn't cross paths and she wasn't the mother of my grandsons. Five years later it happened. We met on a path at a garden party when my youngest grandson graduation from law school. (She was his step-mom, of course.) We both stopped in our tracks...she actually gasped and I think my heart stopped beating. I just made a call...and opened my arms to her. She hugged me and we started talking. That was it. Are we close, no. Yet, after another five years, we met again at the same grandson's wedding. We were both cordial and I'm glad we didn't cause a rift for others to have to tiptoe around.
Still my take: Look back if you can. What she did was a reflection of who she is...and isn't. Best to have her be that way and not have a script of how she should be. There is no way to faction compassion and kindess into people who don't have those characteristics. You could let her know now that you were fragile and reactive and that you want to let it go. Why keep it just to be right? (And you are, of course.) Isn't the price is too high for everyone involved?
Luise, you are a far bigger person than I am. In my wildest dreams, I could not imagine doing that to my MIL.
I am sorry for the loss of your son. : (
I gotta' tell you...it feels really great to get unstuck. We can do the unimaginable sometimes for the good of all...except our own sense of being wronged. To me, that's ego stuff and not very complimentary. Everyone pays the price for our allegiance to that. If we were the only ones our attitudes hurt, it would be different but we are role models for our kids. Tough stuff!
Another thought - when we expect people to treat us a certain way, or decide that we cannot tolerate certain behaviors from them, we need to be very, very sure we follow our own rules. Perhaps there was a loss or other life event on MIL's side that wasn't acknowledged in a timely manner by you or your DH? Liz, I'm not accusing you of anything, just trying to clear things up so you and your DH can get on with it. I witnessed my GM treating my DM horribly & went through a similar freeze-out from my first set of ILs, so I'm not a one-sided, rah-rah MIL cheerleader by any means.
Do you feel a bit as if your DH/DC are abandoning or disrespecting you if they visit DH's FOO? If so, try to move on, IMO...plan something fabulous to do w/friends or your own relatives while they are at the IL-fest. Count your blessings that you don't have to go :)
Please keep posting and reading, and do let us know how things are going. We love getting input from DILs here!
I think that if FIL hadn't called LIz nasty names at Christmas, I would have let the sleeping dogs lie. But I don't believe you should let your kids be around people who will badmouth you to them. I know for my DD(7), it would hurt her, because her allegiances would be challenged. On one hand, she would feel bad for me, but on the other hand, she would BELIEVE them. Things they said would sit in her head and fester and it would come out eventually, during an argument, when it's too late to do 'damage control'. Liz, you know your kids and how they would react.
Also, these children do not have a relationship with these GP's. It would 'do no harm' to an existing relationship for them to sit this one out.
Again, if it really is about the cousins, then you can all go and see them, separately from the IL's.
Liz, I think not acknowledging the death of your Father for weeks was very inconsiderate of your MIL. I also remember we had a MIL here one time that was hurt because her DIL didn't acknowledge the death of her Father. I also remember that all the advice here was that she needed to let it go. That although it was the polite thing to do, it shouldn't be an expectation.
I understand your hurt over it. I do think since you said you only saw them every 5 years that it doesn't sound like you had that close of a relationship to expect a prompt phone call? I mean that nicely because I have only spoken to my DIL once in almost 3 years. If I had a death, I totally don't expect her to call, but if a year from now we chanced to meet again, I could so see her saying, "Oh, and sorry to hear about so and so." Would I feel like you did? That it would have been nice to hear at the time? Sure, but if I'm not spending time with her now, it's my fault to expect her to do that.
As far as your current situation, I think there is an assumption that the ILs will speak badly about you to the DC. Have you had problems with them doing that? I think if you have had them do that, then I totally understand not wanting them to go and agree with you. If you haven't, then I am under the opinion that they are his children too and if he is willing to not gripe about you not going, and go himself, then let them go.
So many good responses... Thank you for giving me things to think about. Just a few clarifications.... When I married into this family 20 years ago, I was enthusiastic about joining the family. DH will grade me an a+. We made an effort to comminicate regularly and visit often. Then grandkids came along. They pretended to be interested but really were not. My last child was a high risk pregnancy and was in the nicu for a week. No phone call to check in on her. It was then when I realized how one sided the relationship was. I slowly backed away. And honestly, it took them about 5 years to notice. My MIL had a long talk... Cleared the air... And we both agreed to try harder. Six months later my dad died. They knew my dad because we took a few joint vacations together. I found their behavoior disrespectful... Not only to me but their son. Our family was in crisis and they couldn't call and offer moral support. When they knew I was upset, they just pretended nothing happened.
And Luise hit the nail on the head... I feel so disrespected that my husband goes with the kids. It seems to validate their behavior. I do not think they would bad mouth me... And my kids have figured them out. The ILs would just pretend like nothing had happened. And then there would be a glowing description of the party in their Christmas letter... Only addressed to my dh. Along with an anniversary and valentines day card sent...only addressed to my dh. And these are the things my kids notice. In fact one stated, "grandma is really petty". So I know I should be the bigger person... I just feel like a doormat. And dh is nothing like them.
Liz, I can empathize with you. I have had some less than positive interactions with my own MIL. Sorry you are going through all of this. I too have fought with my DH over her. I have been so angry at her. We have been married for 32 yrs. I'm so glad we don't live nearby. There have been times when I've felt the way you are describing. Over and over DH has told me that it's not about me, it's about her (her bad behavior), and that she has problems with her other kids' spouses also. We have had to reach some compromises over the years. One is that we set a certain time limit on the amount of time we (mainly me) are willing to spend with her. I also ask him to "be with me" while we are around her. This means he lets her know, through his behavior, that we are a team. If I am feeling really upset with a particualr behavior, I may decide on a particular "password" ahead of time to let him know that I've had enough, and that we need to leave. Also, we decide ahead of time what we are willing to do for her, or not do for her. DH use to accommodate her requests, ie, handyman types of projects. She would have a list of things, and we decided that he would ask her to choose one, and that would be all. At first he had a hard time doing this, but over time he found his voice more and more. It's still an ongoing process, but it works, for the most part. I really think Luise is wise with her comments. I think the two of you could go, limit the time you are with her, and enjoy yourselves. You will be modelling healthy behavior for your children. They seem wise to understand who their MIL is. The main thing here is to let her know that you and your DH are a team. Over time, you will develop your own strategies together. He will appreciate your efforts.
Hi Liz,
Welcome, I hope you will find the answers that you are looking for here at WWU. They sure have helped me. I am sorry that your IL's treated you the way they did after your DF passed. I know the hardest thing that I ever tried to do with my DIL was for all of us to get together and I told DS I would apologize in order to clear the air so we could move forward. (I really didn't know why I was going to apologize but I still would have done so.) DIL refused to get together with us to clear the air because she said she had nothing to apologize about. That was 2 years ago. I have always felt that it is important that we all know where we come from and to remember where we come from....
Quote from: Liz on March 14, 2012, 03:16:08 AMDH knows I won't go and he is fine with it. The problem is he wants to take our pre-teen children. He feels his parents are getting older and wants our kids to meet cousins they have never met. I feel that this rewards his parents bad behavior as they will be thrilled dh is leaving me behind to attend.
Hi Liz, Do the kids want to go?
I would try to be careful that, in your desire not to reward your ILs, you don't cross over into trying to punish them, and in the process, punish your husband and kids too. They might be able to have a good and meaningful time together. It can't really do any harm, can it?
DH is supporting your desire not to attend. You are ok with him going, I take it. The only issue is the kids' attendance. Why not let them have a say, and if they want to go with Dad, let them. Let staying home be what you do for you and let going be what they do for them.
What you don't want is for the kids to get the message that Mommy doesn't want us to go with Daddy because she's mad at Grammy and Grampa.
And so what if ILs are thrilled you didn't come. You're thrilled to be staying home. Just my one cent.
Everybody makes some good points about being the bigger person and not punishing DH or the kids or grandparents for what's going on and teaching the kids an important lesson?
But what about the lesson the kids are going to learn that it's okay to treat their mother like this? This is something I am dealing with right now. My in laws are nasty to me, so now that I've withdrawn, they mostly ignore me. I don't want to interfere with my husband's relationship with them, but I find it hurtful that he goes over there and spends time with this other family that I am deliberately excluded from. And we act like this is normal because we don't want to start a big fight. But what it teaches my kids is that it is okay for people to treat me this way - to ignore me and pretend I don't exist. If their father goes along with that, it just reinforces the idea that their mom is someone who does not deserve respect. We are not respected as a team. That can be very hurtful and even if you keep quiet about it, you end up building up a lot of resentment.
I don't know if there things apply to you exactly but I understand your frustration. It sounds like your kids see things for what they are though and hopefully that should be some relief!
Is it me... That is exactly my feeling. DH and I have been married almost 20 years... And this is the first time we've had marital problems. We sought counseling and we learned a lot about managing conflict and communication. My DH has become very aware of how dysfunctional his parents are... And how inept they are in personal relationships... which has trickled into his sibling relationships. The counselor agreed vehemently that we don't continue the "pretend" game. Our children are smart... they get it. They don't have all the details but they have witnessed the pettiness of their grandparents. So if my kids go... I promise it will be for the cousins. They will not be involved with the grandparents... only out of obligation...under the guise of politeness. At the end of the trip... My family will return to me and my DH will have "checked it off the list". My husband and I vowed we would not continue their legacy... but will create a new legacy. I am not sure what we decide but I know a simple family gathering shouldn't require so much thought.
Hi Liz ....
My take is that you are really hurt with your DH , the fact that he could actually go and leave
you behind .
I think you should let him go alone .
If he really insists on the kids going , you make sure you are there too .
A no show from you will mean chinks in your relationship , and might put a smile on your MIL's face .
Show a united front and all go ....just my opinion ...of course .. :)
Quote from: Liz on March 15, 2012, 12:37:40 PM
Our children are smart... they get it. They don't have all the details but they have witnessed the pettiness of their grandparents. So if my kids go... I promise it will be for the cousins.
Hi Liz-
I think what you are looking for is somewhere in what you said here. Your kids are smart, they know and love you. They could do this trip for your husband who would like for them to at least meet the cousins. ( I think you said they hadn't met, right?). There is something to be said for knowing that you have extended family, even if you aren't close. I never really knew my cousins since my mom and her SIL didn't like each other, but we met a few times and now, decades later, I'm getting to know them on FB.
I also don't think you need to go on the trip unless you want to. Trust your husband to handle it. My dad didn't respect my husband for the first 29 years or so of our marriage so most of my family visits were just me and my kids with my family. My DH thankfully had a sense of humor about the situation and didn't give a dang if my dad liked him or not.
Quote from: luise.volta on March 14, 2012, 06:57:19 AM
My take: I am looking at your statement that your ILs offended you greatly. It sounds like the trouble started there. People are the way they are and when we are offended it is often because we are the way we are. In a situation where we're literally stuck with people we didn't necessarily choose, and visa versa, wanting them to be and act differently isn't often a workable plan. Your ILs wanted to move past it because they are still how they are. Your husband sees your point but wants to honor them and he wants your children to honor them. By his doing so, are you feeling dishonored? It sound like your reaction to whatever they did is at the core of the entire thing. We don't need to know what that was. Agreeing with you or not isn't a solution.
In the name of honoring your husband, who continues to honor them...why not let go of being right and be the bigger person? I would suggest you back way up no matter how hard that is and let them know that you overreacted and you're past it. Pull the family back together before you become a role model to your children in a way that won't serve them. Being right is a lonely place. Sending love...
One of the finest pieces of advice I have ever read.
I have to admit, I'm a little bit bothered by all the comments about being the bigger person. I think a lot of the time it really is the right path. And it might be the right thing for the poster in her case.
But I think when you have to be the bigger person all the time for the sake of a family that disrespects you, it can lead to bigger problems. I feel like it then becomes acceptable for everyone to treat you badly since you will be nice about it. And after a while you end up building up a lot of resentment because it seems like everyone's feelings matter more then yours. Even the feeling's of people who behave badly. And if you mention your own feelings in this, it is considered selfish.
I'm not advocating always taking issue with every little thing and sure, it's important to let things go. But when doing the right thing is just rewarded by a slap in the face, it becomes very hard to want to do the right thing everytime. Especially if no one acknowledges how unfair it is..
Isitme... I have to live with myself longer than I will have to live with anyone. And I know right now, I can't forget. I really wish I could... And I think Luise has given excellent advice. Maybe someday I will be there. Even my youngest child knows their are consequences to behavior. I just can't fake it. A simple "I am sorry" would have gone along way. But they couldn't acknowledge my hurt. My husband asked them to apologize... My FIL refused. I have been figuratively slapped in the face... If I am to be a good role model to my kids I should model how I want others to treat me. I wouldn't want my kids to stick around for a literal or figurative slap in the face. I am the only person in the family that has stood up to my FIL... Everyone " got along to get along". Sometimes you have to say "enough". I do agree with often times to be the bigger person... But not this time. My DH has lost all respect for his parents. He is merely going to honor them for what they once were. I am in full support of that. I can't honor them for what they have become... very dysfunctional people.
I really do appreciate everyone's insight. You are all very positive and give excellent feedback!
Sometimes it helps clarify things if you reverse the roles - if your DH felt slighted by something your Ps did or didn't do, and it was very important to him, would you keep your DC away from your own family? Would you lose respect for your family or would you try to see both sides? IDK, just a thought...
Being the bigger person is nice and an excellent example for one's children, but it doesn't mean you have to be a doormat. I think a married couple are a united front and if people are rude and insulting to one spouse, they are rude and insulting to both and therefore, have no place in the couple's or the couple's childrens' lives. The most important relationship in any child's life (I'm not talking about AC) is the one between mom and dad. Anyone who isn't supportive of that relationship, isn't a good influence in the child's life. If the GPs can't behave with basic manners and decency toward mom, I don't care what else they can bring to the table, they are not a good addition to the kids' lives. No one should be guilt-tripped into putting up with abuse. If you are OK with your DH and kids seeing the ILs without you, great. But if you're not, you shouldn't be made to feel selfish for wanting an "all for one and one for all" attitude.
Grandparents can be a wonderful influence in kids' lives, but they are not a necessity. Would anyone consider Ma and Pa Ingalls selfish for picking up Mary, Laura and Baby Carrie and moving from the Big Woods to the prairie? Were the pilgrims selfish for packing up their kids and leaving England for the New World? I don't care what laws are passed, the reality is that GPs don't have a right to see their GC. If they had that right, they'd also have a responsibility like a divorced parent who has to pay child support and is required BY LAW to see the kids at designated times. How many GP organizations would support a law that allowed AC to sue their parents on the GC's behalf and the GP were required to have the GC visit once a month and a week during the summer? Regardless of health and finances. What if the GPs couldn't retire to FL or A, but were forced to live out their golden years in northern ND because that's where their GC live? What if you couldn't retire and travel the world because Judge Judy said every third Thursday and fourth weekend of the month you had to keep your GC?
I'm not advocating cutting relatives off at the drop of the hat. Each individual has to be honest with themselves about whether they've actually reached the end of their tether or if they are being hasty out of spite. You have to live with yourself. If you can look yourself in the mirror and say "I have tried with my ILs, but the stress of dealing with their craziness is too much" then I feel you are justified in cutting them off. And it's not out of line to expect your spouse to have nothing to do with people who can't treat you decently. And it's not out of line to have your children avoid people who can't treat you decently. Kids tend to internalize what's said about their parents, especially the same-sex parent. If mom is a whiny, self-absorbed snot, I must be one, too. If dad is a lazy, good-for-nothing slob, I must be one, too. It does matter what relatives say about you in their presence, not because your kids will turn on you (they will as teenagers no matter what...), but because it can affect their own self-image.
For the OP, if DH is really concerned about your kids seeing cousins, why doesnt' he arrange for all of you to visit the cousins or have the cousins come visit you? I imagine DH and his sister and any other sibs are all adults, so they shouldn't need mommy and daddy to facilitate an on-going relationship. If your SIL decides she won't deal with her brother and his family independently, then that is her problem. I get very frustrated with extended family that decide to pick sides without knowing all the facts and are willing to shun nieces/nephews just because the adults can't get along.
Good luck.
PS - if my DH was offended by my family, I would have no problem keeping distance until they could behave themselves. They dont have to like my spouse, but they have to treat him with the same courtesy and manners you expect from a stranger.
Herbal escapes... . I so agree with your ps.... There would have been no way I would have tolerated my own parents behaving the way my inlaws behaved. And my parents would have never behaved like that. My dad (who died) was such an inspirational man... It magnifies their flaws 100 fold.
The one good thing that has come out of this....my dh called his siblings to tell them why I wasn't going. Inlaws only told siblings I was angry with them... But had no idea why. Which made my dh want to scream. Siblings all said their parents were selfish... and FIL was stubborn. The siblings won't take sides... nor would I want them to. But their parents have been exposed and they were not surprised. My inlaws will be very upset when they realized the entire family knows the truth.
You all have been really helpful. And I might not follow some of your advice... But it has been very enlightening for me to hear other perspectives. Thank you all for your thoughtful responses.
This isn't about following anyones advice. It is about being heard and supported and being given other perspectives to factor in if they apply. Sending love...
Luise... Thank you. Every single poster has "heard" and supported me so much more than my inlaws. Complete strangers have been more helpful. Kind of makes me say "hmmmm". : )
Welcome Liz :)
IMO, being the bigger person isn't always about letting the other person do what they want or give in on your values/boundaries. Sometimes being the bigger person is the taking care of yourself. Good luck to you
Update - my two eldest kids had opportunities to go on church youth trips on the reunion weekend. When dh had an honest discussion with the kids they said they would hands-down rather go on the youth trips than be with their grandparents. They both basically said they don't know their grandparents... and grandparents never put any effort into them. So... I am sure it was painful to hear but he agreed and gave his blessing for the youth trips. He really wanted to bring the 7 year old because it gives him an excuse not to interact much with his parents. He will leave the drink fest early to put her to bed, etc. So he will go with our 7 year old and I will stay behind. And I am fine with it. He really feels an obligation to go... And I will support that. He is dreading it... how sad for him.
Thanks for all of your input!
Liz, most kids I know get at a certain age where they would prefer to hang with friends rather than family, no matter how great the relationship is. It's totally normal and I think even healthy for this to happen now at their ages, seems really appropriate.
I am sorry u were treated tht way. It took awhile for mu husband to realize tht his family cannot treat me tht way also. Its tough and we had many fights over it but he finally understood where I was coming from and decided tht if mil and others can not hve anythng nice to say to me then he does not want anythng to do w them either. Sad when grandkids involved but u husband and kids are a team. And should all b treated w respect. By disrespecting u they disrespected son and grandkids also. Some in laws r just impossible and its good to weed out the toxic people in your lives since u probably hve a lot more positive peopleto be around.