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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: artlady on February 12, 2012, 04:48:00 PM

Title: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 12, 2012, 04:48:00 PM
Now to answer this you might have to read post about controlling SIL.  Now I wonder if I should talk to DD about our feelings , that we are always there for her and will be but that if she feels we are not involved as much is because we feel we only need to come visit when called , we don't plan to interrupt their plans at anytime and anytime they want to come home to visit they r always welcome. I know the two of us are so close and we can read each other like a book , in person and on the phone so she already knows there is something not right as she has already asked me but i said not things are fine , She is missing her mom as she wanted to see more of me , so poor thing is texting and emailing me all  the time since the baby's birth 2 weeks ago. I did go spend the day with her last week , I just couldn't bring myself to spend the night as i was afraid I'd cry if he said anything to hurt my feelings to sensitive right now . he was at work except for lunch. I wanted to talk to her last week but she was so tired and the baby has been so fussy with gas so it was not a good time . His tone , words and body language are loud and clear he doesn't want us there  and of course we don't 'talk on the phone when he is home so now with him at work during the day I do hope we can . I want her to know we will always be here for her regardless. I don't know whether to have a heart to heart with her not sure she will discuss it with him as he is not too much on discussing emotions , he puts up a wall and we cant get close ( he use to be warmer prior to the wedding) . I don't want her to worry about us but to enjoy this new bundle of joy as they grow up so fast and we don't want her to miss any of it so rocking the boat is not our goal but hiding things from her is very hard. ( and vice versa) Ok women have at it , you are helping me so much , I can't believe how much better I'm feeling , that sick feeling is getting better. ( it was a good diet though , I lost 5 pounds in 5 days)
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: luise.volta on February 12, 2012, 06:20:48 PM
I would continue to say "everything is fine" and to just let you know when she wants help...and...that you want to give them all room...(maybe because you felt the need for it at that stage...or some such?)  Otherwise you may be seen as blaming her DH for the current state of affairs and that could lead to disaster. Sending love...
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: constantmargaret on February 12, 2012, 06:25:59 PM
Agreed. If I were 2 weeks postpartum, the last thing I would want is a heart to heart about feelings. With anyone. Hard as it is, I would back off. She has her hands full with her new infant and DH. Be supportive and recognize that DD doesn't have the energy right now to expend in a close relationship with anybody except that baby. Let her know you're there if she needs you and try not to take it personally if she doesn't. 

Best wishes, and congratulations on your new sweet grandbaby.
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 12, 2012, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on February 12, 2012, 06:20:48 PM
I would continue to say "everything is fine" and to just let you know when she wants help...and...that you want to give them all room...(maybe because you felt the need for it at that stage...or some such?)  Otherwise you may be seen as blaming her DH for the current state of affairs and that could lead to disaster. Sending love...
That is what I was thinking but so many say she would really be upset if she knew we were going to counseling to see how to deal with our feelings of hurt by how he treats us , but then i don't want her to be upset ,worried or concerned about us when she has so much on her plate with a new baby. I just hope I can hide it from her as she is good to see things you think you r hiding .
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 12, 2012, 07:10:27 PM
Quote from: constantmargaret on February 12, 2012, 06:25:59 PM
Agreed. If I were 2 weeks postpartum, the last thing I would want is a heart to heart about feelings. With anyone. Hard as it is, I would back off. She has her hands full with her new infant and DH. Be supportive and recognize that DD doesn't have the energy right now to expend in a close relationship with anybody except that baby. Let her know you're there if she needs you and try not to take it personally if she doesn't. 

Best wishes, and congratulations on your new sweet grandbaby.
Thanks and  I do hope I get to know my new grandbaby, but if the DD still ignores us and acts like he doesn't want us around we might not get to know the baby like we hoped . I know she is doing so much right now and those hormones will be wild for a while , we will have time to discuss things as I know she felt , saw and heard how he acted and things he said in the hospital and I could tell she was trying to buffer or cover it , bless her heart. She should have been enjoying the celebration of the new baby without his arrogant attitude and words. I 'm sure she knows our feelings have been hurt as she sent a text from hospital to ask me if i was ok ?  I just don't' know how long before she approaches it herself .
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: luise.volta on February 12, 2012, 07:21:40 PM
Keep trying to remember it is their issue. It isn't about you...it's about their relationship and for them to iron out. Mum's the word!
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 12, 2012, 07:30:11 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on February 12, 2012, 07:21:40 PM
Keep trying to remember it is their issue. It isn't about you...it's about their relationship and for them to iron out. Mum's the word!
Oh I know it is I just don't want to see my daughter get hurt or watch her hurt, that is hard and I know there are things that she is not happy about over the time they have been together. That is what is so hard for a mother to watch them struggle .
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: luise.volta on February 12, 2012, 08:02:20 PM
My view: It is hard to get that she is an adult and these are her life-lessons. She picked the guy. Getting hurt may be part of what comes of that. We don't want it to be the way it is and feel protective. Being protective is no longer our job. It has to unfold for her while you get that it is her life that is unfolding and not your expectations and/or needs. When my son married a woman that brought him nothing (that I could see) but grief...it was almost impossible for me to detach from it and get that it was theirs to resolve...or not. I had a terrible time but I did it. He figured it out for himself, eventually. How we feel or what we are going through or how we would like it to turn out is not like it was when they were dependent children. They have taken on the adult world and some have to thrash around in it. I was like that (thrashing around) and so were my sons. Hard lessons came our way. Again, I suggest that you let it go. Step back. Focus elsewhere. Your job is done...and my take is that if you try to keep it...it will bring you all grief. Sending love...
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: herbalescapes on February 13, 2012, 05:50:05 AM
A big THANK YOU for making a post where the SIL not the DIL is the problem. 

I read your other post a few times and I'm confused about what exactly the problem was with the mascots at the wedding, but as was pointed out, that's a done deal, so don't waste any more time over it.

When it comes to the birth of a baby, the only person's whose feelings and wishes matter is the mother's - she's the patient, after all.  If she wants a cast of thousands or no one, not even the dad in the delivery room, so be it.  I told my dh that if he annoyed me too much in the delivery room I'd kick him out.  The couple isn't required to call anyone enroute, either.  Now, the dad can give his opinion on the matters (who's in the room, who gets called and when).  If mom so chooses, she can accommodate the dad's preferences and it's no one's business to complain or hold a grudge.  It's ok to feel hurt or slighted - we can't really control our feelings - but being resentful is a no-no. 

It's possible that your daughter was more than ok with not calling you til after the fact.  Maybe she felt she was becoming a mom herself and needed (excuse this poor pun) had to cut the umbilical cord figuratively before it was done literally.  If you and your dd call/text every day, it's not outrageous that your sil feels put out.  A lot of guys don't understand the intense socializing some mothers and daughters have and feel it threatens their autonomy.  He and your dd are adults and need to make their own decisions.  He may feel that your constant contact influences your dd unduly - whether it does or doesn't, that could be his perception.  Just maybe your dd has played a role in his wanting to keep you at arm's length.  Maybe half her comments are preceeded with "Well, I was talking with my mom and she thinks..."

When I was in the hospital with my last child, the booklet with all the hospital info - discharge info, meal info, getting a birth certificate, etc. - specifically said visitors were nice, but even grandparents and siblings should stay no more than 15 minutes.  There's nothing wrong with a couple wanting a lot of alone time after the birth of a baby.  Your daughter may be uncomfortable telling you to keep a little distance, so she's letting sil take the blame.  I know plenty of DILs who would attest that their own DH's aren't thrilled about spending time with his own FOO, but DIL gets blamed. 

It's only been 2 weeks.  Dont' say anything to your DD.  If she asks for help, give it.  Try to focus on what you do have.  Your GC won't remember who changed the diapers in the first weeks of life.  Plenty of gp (parents, too) form healthy, strong, loving attachments even if they have little or no contact in the first months. 

Given that your SIL has a very different background and temperment, it may be that he views his behavior as loving and warm.  Try to find a way to positively interpret his behavior.  My Dh had a grandmother who had something critical to say about everybody.  I would have felt unloved if I found out she wasn't criticizing me to other family members (she didn't do it to your face).  That's just the way she was. 

Good Luck!
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: JaneF on February 13, 2012, 06:48:51 AM
I agree with the others.  I wouldn't utter a peep.  Just let her know if she needs anything she can call you. Period. Blessings to you.  J
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: Doe on February 13, 2012, 07:08:54 AM
I also agree - there's such a thing as too much information.  It seems that you have a whole big matrix in mind, constructed of what DD may be thinking, what SIL is doing, thinking, how it all came about, where it may go, how it all affects you and your DH and possible futures that may or may not occur.  I think all that's needed is a cheerful helpful mother when her DH is at work.  If you really don't want her to worry about you, don't give her the slightest hint that there is anything to worry about.

You said you wanted to assure her that you would always be there for her.  Is there some reason that she wouldn't think that you would always be there for her?  If my dad said that to me, I would immediately know there was something wrong. 



Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: lancaster lady on February 13, 2012, 07:11:45 AM
Hello Artlady :

If my DD had just had a baby and was missing me and wanted to see more of me , wild horses
wouldn't stop me from seeing her .
Why can;t you go and help with your new grandbaby ?
Perhaps she's struggling coming to terms with a newborn , it is hard going .
Of course she's wondering where you are ,,, you're her Mom !.
I would go when he's at work , don't mention him full stop .
You are there to support your DD and her baby , their relationship is their problem .
Go and enjoy your new grandbaby .
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: pam1 on February 13, 2012, 07:15:22 AM
Quote from: artlady on February 12, 2012, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on February 12, 2012, 06:20:48 PM
I would continue to say "everything is fine" and to just let you know when she wants help...and...that you want to give them all room...(maybe because you felt the need for it at that stage...or some such?)  Otherwise you may be seen as blaming her DH for the current state of affairs and that could lead to disaster. Sending love...
That is what I was thinking but so many say she would really be upset if she knew we were going to counseling to see how to deal with our feelings of hurt by how he treats us , but then i don't want her to be upset ,worried or concerned about us when she has so much on her plate with a new baby. I just hope I can hide it from her as she is good to see things you think you r hiding .

artlady, who are these people saying this?  Just curious. 

I like what Doe said, it does seem like you've got a big matrix constructed on how all the players are thinking.  Which is harmful....to you.  At two weeks post partum a heart to heart seems a little much, I'm not sure I'd even hear you properly.  Is there any reason why you think your DD may not feel that she is there for you? 

IMO, stepping back and trying not to apply motivations to everyone and their behaviors will help you a lot. 
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 13, 2012, 08:00:55 AM
Quote from: constantmargaret on February 12, 2012, 06:25:59 PM
Agreed. If I were 2 weeks postpartum, the last thing I would want is a heart to heart about feelings. With anyone. Hard as it is, I would back off. She has her hands full with her new infant and DH. Be supportive and recognize that DD doesn't have the energy right now to expend in a close relationship with anybody except that baby. Let her know you're there if she needs you and try not to take it personally if she doesn't. 

Best wishes, and congratulations on your new sweet grandbaby. Oh i do want to support her and be there for her . It hurts when she tells me she didn't know it would be so hard and to see her so tired. She feels she has to do it all and he has to have his sleep so i do hope she can make it through as I dont' feel comfortable spending the night at this time so my day time visits of driving round trip 200 miles will have to do for now. He ignores us .
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 13, 2012, 08:02:46 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on February 12, 2012, 08:02:20 PM
My view: It is hard to get that she is an adult and these are her life-lessons. She picked the guy. Getting hurt may be part of what comes of that. We don't want it to be the way it is and feel protective. Being protective is no longer our job. It has to unfold for her while you get that it is her life that is unfolding and not your expectations and/or needs. When my son married a woman that brought him nothing (that I could see) but grief...it was almost impossible for me to detach from it and get that it was theirs to resolve...or not. I had a terrible time but I did it. He figured it out for himself, eventually. How we feel or what we are going through or how we would like it to turn out is not like it was when they were dependent children. They have taken on the adult world and some have to thrash around in it. I was like that (thrashing around) and so were my sons. Hard lessons came our way. Again, I suggest that you let it go. Step back. Focus elsewhere. Your job is done...and my take is that if you try to keep it...it will bring you all grief. Sending love...
As the saying goes when they r young they r on your feet and once they grow up they r forever on your heart.   That is sooooooooooo true
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: Pooh on February 13, 2012, 08:08:34 AM
I'm with LL on this, if I am understanding correctly?  DD is texting/calling you constantly wanting your help?  Or just texting/calling with general statements?  If my DD was asking for my help, I honestly wouldn't worry about what SIL thought about it...that's between him and her.  I'd go and when he came in at lunch, I would smile and let him have time with her and the baby, busying myself with something else.  If she's just asking "You ok." and stuff, then I would just answer her with, "Yes, we are good.  I love you."

Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 13, 2012, 09:40:08 AM
Quote from: Pooh on February 13, 2012, 08:08:34 AM
I'm with LL on this, if I am understanding correctly?  DD is texting/calling you constantly wanting your help?  Or just texting/calling with general statements?  If my DD was asking for my help, I honestly wouldn't worry about what SIL thought about it...that's between him and her.  I'd go and when he came in at lunch, I would smile and let him have time with her and the baby, busying myself with something else.  If she's just asking "You ok." and stuff, then I would just answer her with, "Yes, we are good.  I love you."
She thought i would come back up the next day or so after they got home , that was before the birth but she never did say when after wards as I know she was not able to do so with him as he is, she told me she was so tired and didn't' know it was so tough , so she needed help but he doesn't want help, that is the read I get but then she wanted to know which day the next week or days i was coming , and i did go up and I'll go back this week but i go and come as not to rock the boat . They live about 75 miles away. Oh if she said i need you please  come I'd be right there but i don't' think she has the choice , they wanted two weeks before company etc t get on schedule , but not for me or my dh she said, He was going to take two weeks off but then after being home with a fussy, gassy baby for 5 days he leaves her goes back to work and she can't drive for another week at that point. I really hated she was alone except he came home from lunch , nursing none stop to quiet the baby , so was tired and so drained.   I"m better and I"ll do what i have to not to make a problem for them
, it is just us trying to deal with the hurt that is so hard.  This is not the way we thought it would be , or hoped for . We will learn to cherish the times we have and be thankful for all we do have . Time will get us through with prayers and support of others. Thanks
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: luise.volta on February 13, 2012, 11:05:39 AM
"This is not the way we thought it would be, or hoped for."

To me, that is always at the core of my deepest upsets. I don't want things to be the way they are. I want my reasonable expectations to be met. That's not necessarily the way it works. I really dislike getting they are my expectations and others have no obligation whatsoever to fulfill them. I was brought up to do my best to fulfill my parent's expectations. Now, it seems, that was in the "olden days." We have encouraged our offspring to be more individualized and sometimes it comes back to bite us. Sending love...
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 13, 2012, 12:39:15 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on February 13, 2012, 11:05:39 AM
"This is not the way we thought it would be, or hoped for."

To me, that is always at the core of my deepest upsets. I don't want things to be the way they are. I want my reasonable expectations to be met. That's not necessarily the way it works. I really dislike getting they are my expectations and others have no obligation whatsoever to fulfill them. I was brought up to do my best to fulfill my parent's expectations. Now, it seems, that was in the "olden days." We have encouraged our offspring to be more individualized and sometimes it comes back to bite us. Sending love...
Oh I know and since i was a widow at 32, she was 2 think she became independent early . She is a psychology major so she sees things , very aware , so I feel she sees it and when she wants or not to address if and if not that is fine . I do think we raised this generation differently although i did try to keep to the chore values that i was taught , and wow now raising kids is even more or a challenge. I"m retired teacher of 30 years and now teaching part time at a private school . So I"ve seen the change in kids for the past 30 years but i think the last generation said the very same.  lol
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: Pooh on February 13, 2012, 12:46:11 PM
I am reading that you are saying DD doesn't have a choice.  I believe everyone has a choice.  It may be harder to make for some than others, but they have it.   He may not want help but it sounds like she is the one that needs it since he chose to go on back to work.  I truly think you are getting caught in the mdidle of this.  I think DD would like to have you around more and he is wanting more left-alone time.  It's sad that it's you caught in the middle of something that they need to work out between them.
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 13, 2012, 01:05:17 PM
Quote from: Pooh on February 13, 2012, 12:46:11 PM
I am reading that you are saying DD doesn't have a choice.  I believe everyone has a choice.  It may be harder to make for some than others, but they have it.   He may not want help but it sounds like she is the one that needs it since he chose to go on back to work.  I truly think you are getting caught in the middle of this.  I think DD would like to have you around more and he is wanting more left-alone time.  It's sad that it's you caught in the middle of something that they need to work out between them.
Thanks Pooh I think she wants it too but doesn't want to rock his boat plus she just had a baby, trying to nurse and this is all new to her . This is a special time between mother and daughter even if we just talk on the phone but we aer very close and I know when my daughter misses her "mama"  , she just needs to be reassured and hugged that is will all work out . The baby has been fussy, so it has been hard for her . He is so structured , more of a loner so it is fine to confine her and now he has his chance . I"m just praying she doesn't give up her job, it is a good one and pays good but he has her convinced it isn't but poor thing has to give so much to him a month she is broke all the time as I've had to give her money to fix her car , for gas etc. He makes excellent money  2X as much as her, but he still wants her to pay half of things. Thanks I do feel like I'm in the middle and I was reading the muzzle post from past , that is how i feel when around him so that hit home also. Thanks again


Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: lancaster lady on February 13, 2012, 01:16:18 PM
You did say they are married ?
Sounds to me as if they are still leading separate lives .
If she has to donate her salary to household bills , surely her car should be included .
HHhmmm , seems like there is a lot to sort out in this relationship .
Perhaps her need for her mom's help goes deeper than a new baby .
She sounds like an intelligent woman and after she gets over  her post natal period , she might
want to change a few things in her household .
I now understand your concern .
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: Doe on February 13, 2012, 01:20:40 PM
I read that, too, LL  but he also wants her to stay at home with the baby, at least I think that's what I understand.
If Artlady feels like she is in the middle, I think the best thing to do would be to get out of the middle ASAP.  Maybe SIL doesn't like having his MIL in the middle?
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: lancaster lady on February 13, 2012, 01:27:45 PM
I agree , buy hard to not see your Dd after having a baby and coping on her own .
Also unfair of him not to expect his MIL to come and help .

If it were me , I would ask my DD what she wants me to do .
Come and help or stay away , although the DD in this is not aware that her DM
has any concerns .
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: Doe on February 13, 2012, 01:31:11 PM
I thought DD wanted her mom, and SIL was just giving the cold shoulder, where Artlady wants more warmth.    I missed where SIL said Artlady can't come to visit.
Maybe DD and SIL are happy together?  Maybe I missed it but I thought he was just cold toward the in-laws.
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: lancaster lady on February 13, 2012, 01:42:54 PM

Quote from Artlady :

' His tone , words and body language are loud and clear he doesn't want us there  and of course we don't 'talk on the phone
when he is home' .

It must be uncomfortable to be there when he is displaying this behaviour .
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: Pooh on February 14, 2012, 07:54:39 AM
I don't think I read where she said that she was told she couldn't come visit, but I think from the treatment she is receiving from him, the cold shoulder, not wanting help...etc., it would be hard not to feel like he didn't want her around, and from the texts/calls from DD, it's obvious that DD does want more, IMO.  I think that's where she's getting caught in the middle.  I don't think she's putting herself there, I think DD is...maybe not intentionally. 

I think hearing this story, I may have just decided I'm luckier having the DIL that doesn't want me around and a DS that for whatever reason, decided to go with that decision.  If he was calling me and asking for help or wanting me around and I was still receiving the bad treatment from DIL, I don't know what I'd do.  To tell DS it was his problem and I couldn't be around him almost sounds like I would be making him choose, which I wouldn't want to do.  I also wouldn't want to alienate an AC that was trying to keep the relationship.  What a dilemma.

Ok, now with more of the story about him wanting her to pay half of the bills and she had to get money from you?  Umm....something is very off about their relationship from what I'm reading.  It doesn't sound like they are on the same page about anything and she is bending to his wishes? 
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 14, 2012, 08:27:05 AM
Quote from: Pooh on February 14, 2012, 07:54:39 AM
I don't think I read where she said that she was told she couldn't come visit, but I think from the treatment she is receiving from him, the cold shoulder, not wanting help...etc., it would be hard not to feel like he didn't want her around, and from the texts/calls from DD, it's obvious that DD does want more, IMO.  I think that's where she's getting caught in the middle.  I don't think she's putting herself there, I think DD is...maybe not intentionally. 

I think hearing this story, I may have just decided I'm luckier having the DIL that doesn't want me around and a DS that for whatever reason, decided to go with that decision.  If he was calling me and asking for help or wanting me around and I was still receiving the bad treatment from DIL, I don't know what I'd do.  To tell DS it was his problem and I couldn't be around him almost sounds like I would be making him choose, which I wouldn't want to do.  I also wouldn't want to alienate an AC that was trying to keep the relationship.  What a dilemma.

Ok, now with more of the story about him wanting her to pay half of the bills and she had to get money from you?  Umm....something is very off about their relationship from what I'm reading.  It doesn't sound like they are on the same page about anything and she is bending to his wishes?
Yes it is hard to be there when you can feel the mood of a person that doesn't want you there . I really think he is jealous of her having a mother and caring family since his is so strange . To clue you in his dad and stepdad didn't even give a wedding present, nor did grandmother and aunt( his mom's side) , his dd and sm didn[t even pay for what they were suppose to we picked up the tab afterwards ( of which our savings took a hit. He has yet to thank us for anything we have done , we are the only ones that will be there for this grandbaby as stmom has grandkids of her own so this one is not important to her . Yes I fear that this pretty out going 31 year old is going to be controlled before it is all said and done by this controlling 35 year old. He has baggage that needs to addressed. Such he doesn';t know what his dad did with his moms 'ashes ( from memorial 11 years ago), he won't ask unless dd is with him so fa4 not, he doesn't have contact with his family , won't return calls many times , avoids seeing them if he can . I think the fair thing is to share bills using a percentage of the two incomes to each other. She feels it is her responsibility to pay half or whatever because he is the one that is paying for big ticket items like new roof, outside painting , solar heat pump etc etc.  He is working on the brain wash hard and even decides and checks wedding / baby registry , she got to pick a few things but he would research for which or what one was the best. So he is a control /manipulative person .   He had us fooled so good , the one before the wedding is gone forever and doesn't look like he will ever return . It is a bad bad place to be when we have our arms open to do whatever we need to , to make our family work.
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: pam1 on February 14, 2012, 08:33:58 AM
artlady, I still don't have a good grasp on the situation so forgive me if this has already been addressed...but how do you know about his relationship with his family?  Does he speak to you about it?

Also, I have a hard time with saying some of this is controlling.  Usually one person in the relationship takes ownership for certain things, perhaps he is the researcher and buyer.  I do that in our household and IMO, I'm not controlling lol.  It has to be done so I do it.  Dh is fine with it and actually likes that I like to do it so we're fine there.

Is your DD unhappy with their set up?  Or is this your impression that she is unhappy? 

I'm sorry, I know I'm missing something here but I'm just not seeing it.  However they work out their finances is between them, I guess I find it interesting that you even know some of these more intimate things in someone elses marriage. 

Is your DD speaking to you about this?  And is she upset or is she just chit chatting?  I can't tell what is just upsetting to you and/or what is an actual problem for you DD.  It almost seems from the way I am reading it is that you're upset but not necessarily your DD?

Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: luise.volta on February 14, 2012, 08:43:52 AM
We have read here all too often about how a future SIL or DIL changed overnight after the wedding. What you see during the engagement is not necessarily what you get. It is our family, there is no doubt about that... and we can't abandon our AC. However, it is their lesson and their issue to resolve. If we step in, it creates the concept that they are still our dependents and we can still fix it. Being supportive, understanding and caring is not necessarily "stepping in." It can be more silently and lovingly there for them. Not an easy call and for most of us. It can be a new and possibly unwelcome skill we have to develop. We have always been involved since day-1. Now our job is done and we get to move on with out own lives and let our AC learn and grow on their own. Do we have to like it? No way. Sending love...
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 14, 2012, 08:56:57 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on February 14, 2012, 08:43:52 AM
We have read here all too often about how a future SIL or DIL changed overnight after the wedding. What you see during the engagement is not necessarily what you get. It is our family, there is no doubt about that... and we can't abandon our AC. However, it is their lesson and their issue to resolve. If we step in, it creates the concept that they are still our dependents and we can still fix it. Being supportive, understanding and caring is not necessarily "stepping in." It can be more silently and lovingly there for them. Not an easy call and for most of us. It can be a new and possibly unwelcome skill we have to develop. We have always been involved since day-1. Now our job is done and we get to move on with out own lives and let our AC learn and grow on their own. Do we have to like it? No way. Sending love...
oh i agree it is just hard sometimes when you heart feels like is it going to come out of your chest. Dh and I both r retired and work part time so we r involved with lots of things , not surrounded around out kids , in their way and we live about 100 miles from the all in two directions ( his 2 DS and My DD)  Now we have 3 gs from 2years old - 2 weeks so we will be ok , just hope and pray the best for DD . I"ll see her tomorrow or thur , so it will get better bit by bit . Not that he will change but we will be ourselves and hope one day he can respect  us as her parents
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: luise.volta on February 14, 2012, 09:07:01 AM
A - It sounds like you have balance and fulfillment already in place. It has to be easier that way than it would be to have to start from scratch. Good for you. (I like to call retirement...redirection...since we "retire" at night into unconsciousness. ;D I know from personal experience how hard it is to look for and hope for growth in others. Beyond that, I think that respect is something some of us were born with and others of us never learn...or even fathom. Have a lovely Valentine's Day!!
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 14, 2012, 09:30:50 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on February 14, 2012, 09:07:01 AM
A - It sounds like you have balance and fulfillment already in place. It has to be easier that way than it would be to have to start from scratch. Good for you. (I like to call retirement...redirection...since we "retire" at night into unconsciousness. ;D I know from personal experience how hard it is to look for and hope for growth in others. Beyond that, I think that respect is something some of us were born with and others of us never learn...or even fathom. Have a lovely Valentine's Day!!
Thanks and Happy Valentines Day to you too. I know it is hard when you come from the old school that no matter what to show respect and manners but now so much of all of that seems to be out the window with younger generations . I did raise  DD with those core values and now that is where I'm sure she is in a struggle as to keeping peace with him and knowing her inner self . So life goes on and so do our AC. 
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 14, 2012, 05:21:37 PM
I"ll go tomorrow to see DD and with a renewed outlook thanks to so many of you that have held my hand, protected my heart and given me a view from the outside in. Thanks so much and I'll update and you might have to hold my hand again for a bit . You are so awesome to help me during such a trying time , feels like we r in mourning almost .  (not quiet but close ). Love you all and HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: Doe on February 15, 2012, 07:22:04 AM
Quote from: artlady on February 14, 2012, 05:21:37 PM
feels like we r in mourning almost .  (not quiet but close ).

Consider your glass at least 1/2 full rather than 1/2 empty - you have a daughter who wants to spend time with you and access to a brand new grandchild!
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: luise.volta on February 15, 2012, 10:19:53 AM
I was just thinking the same thing, D. My eldest son died at 52 of a sleep apnea induced stroke twelve years ago. I would give anything if he was alive no matter what our relationship might have been by this time. Don't let self-pity take you down. Sending love...
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 16, 2012, 09:40:14 AM
Update , visited with DD yesterday , we had a great time although baby is still nursing all day and gassy, she is so patient and loving . We did make a break as she wanted to get out , she wanted a milkshake and some " bad food" ( as she calls it ) so we went to drive thru at Chick fil lae.  He was not too fussy but we did our best . She is so house bond ,so glad she could get out with Grammy riding back sit  LOL. Anyhow SIL did come home from lunch , asked her what was for lunch, she politely told him left overs ( she has no time to do one thing with baby hung to the breast all day, she has nicknamed herself Jersey) . I was surprised he actually spoke , came in and got into our conversations about twice , now when he left he really didn't say anything . But he still doesn't address me as grandma , or ask do i think baby has grown or anything such as that, but he did acknowledge this time  i was in the room rather than nothing as before . He is good to change moods like a chameleon so next time he might be back to the rude one who knows. Not sure if DD saw how he has been acting and said something to him ( which would be a good thing) or if he realizes his side of the family will not be too involved with him or his son, that we r the only ones that will be there for them always regardless of how many times you kick us in the teeth. So I came home better and not about to cry all the way . Thanks ladies for your support, guidance and holding my hand. Love ya
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: Doe on February 16, 2012, 01:14:02 PM
Quote from: artlady on February 16, 2012, 09:40:14 AM
he realizes his side of the family will not be too involved with him or his son, that we r the only ones that will be there for them always regardless of how many times you kick us in the teeth.

Yeah, you never really know what people are struggling with internally.  I like that quote by Pliny, "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."  Even the cheerful people often have challenges that they don't share.   Glad you had a good visit with your DD and GB.
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 16, 2012, 01:45:20 PM
Me too and just pray that things will get back to the kind of normal but not perfect way it was .  We are not going to rock the boat or intrude so hopefully he will see our love and support as a plus and not a threat as time goes by.
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: FAFE on February 16, 2012, 02:58:06 PM
Artlady, next time you see that baby, get some neck sugar for me.
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on February 16, 2012, 04:00:36 PM
Oh I will , he has now gained back the 9 ounces he lost plus 2 so he is starting to grow. He is so cute but bless his little heart he is a bit gassy and fussy but not because his mom isn't feeding him all  the time .  She said the ped told her the first month she would feel like a big boob and she said she does.  Thanks again so much for listening
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ? UPDATE
Post by: artlady on February 25, 2012, 06:23:38 AM
Well we went to see the counselor again to help us get through this hard and strange time with the SIL 's issues.  I feel better and look forward to hearing her take on "expectations " next time, I'm not sure Dh is going again as he is pretty " done " with the whole issue as we don't need to paying for this nor do we need counseling for any problems ( not yet   LOL ). She confirmed we don't have to like his behavior, it won't change and we will just have to learn how not to take it personally. She feels his "prickly , moody ' behavior and changing behavior will continue so just take his lead when we are around him ex if he is friendly , then be that to him , if he is not talking then don't engage or try to get him to talk or he will backoff more. When he whines to DD that no one is talking to him or avoiding him , tell her that you are not avoiding etc just taking his lead so not to get in his space. She wanted to know about his relationships with his family we hit on a few things but didn't need to tell her it all ( would take up too much time ). WE know from the family situations that his whole family from immediate to aunts uncles cousins is very disjointed. He only had 4 at the wedding and that included his dad , stepmom, dad's brother and brother ( who he didn't want in the wedding so put him as usher vs groomsmen). His mother's mom and sisters didnt rsvp , yet to give a gift and the rest of his family from both sides did the same that was about 35 invites . So I dint' think he has ever known what family is and so many including the counselor said it is so said he now has the chance to be part of a family but at 35 i think he just is so use to being a loner from family that is how he wants it and likes it . Now he has his own little unit so he doesn't need anyone else. Counselor asked DH if DD was like me " outgoing , loving and always happy"  he said yes .  So we hope she doesn't lose that. She agrees in this situation she needs to not quit her job as too many things can happen and with his personality of control she would be in a really bad position if she wanted to ever go back to work and get back in the market plus he would not want her to do so once he has that control.  So I do feel better between all the love, hugs and encouragement from all of you and the one on one with the counselor so I see the light at the end of the tunnel for DH and me so I know now I will just have to love my DH and GS as much as I can, just hope the SIL will at least just show us respect as being her parents and grandparents at some point . Love to you all
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: justus on March 05, 2012, 07:57:30 PM
AL, I feel for you. When SD had GD, all of her issues, and there are many, came out in some pretty bad ways. I won't go into all of it, but it would have been devastating if I had let it be. SD refused to bring GD to our home, because it was dirty. The reason was really because of loyalty issues with her M. It was only after taking GD to the homes of her friends that were dangerous (holes in floors, people smoking pot) that she came to her senses and brought her here. There isn't a picture of me and GD until GD was 6 months old even though I saw her at least once a week. There were lots of pictures with people who saw her only once her life, but none of me. There weren't even pictures of DH and GD until GD was over a month old and only then, because I mentioned it to SIL. All of this because of SD's loyalty issues. I could go on and on about this.

It was really uncomfortable. We had done so much for SD, and it seemed like we could never do enough. Honestly, it still seems that way 5 years later. But, we kept our focus on what was best for GD and that was us supporting SD and SIL as parents. We gave them unconditional support even though we were often biting our tongues bloody. It paid off as SD's M showed her behind over and over again. I know that a lot of SD's issues were hormonal and systemic. They had nothing to do with me, but it was really hard not to take it personally. The fact that I was THE GM, before they moved across the country was the result. We saw them at Christmas after a year and a half of not seeing them and I was still THE GM. GD totally adores me and SD is very comfortable with that. SD knows that I will back her up every single time, she knows that I adore GD and will always do what is best for her. She trusts me.

Your job as a GM is doing what is best for your GD and that is supporting your DD and SIL as parents unconditionally. Whatever other issues your SIL has, this will win him over. Love them all unconditionally. That doesn't mean you should be doormats or scapegoats. Don't tolerate rude behavior. He may not even understand what he is doing and how it comes off. But, be forgiving. You have a lot to lose and much more to gain. If he is a total jerk and your DD is in a bad relationship, just be there for her. Don't judge him or complain about him. Do normalize things if she does complain about him, but don't hold grudges for her.

We are lucky in that SIL is a great guy. He got the short end of the stick with SD. If he were my son, I don't think I could keep my mouth shut and if they lived around here and I saw them more, SD would get an earful about how awful she treats him. Even so, if he puts up with it, there is nothing anyone else can do. About all you can do is be a safe, nonjudgemental place for your DD. I wish my M had done that for me when I was with my xH. If I didn't feel like I had to defend him and my choice to be with him, I might have left him a lot earlier. But rather than being able to deal with my own emotions about him, I was stuck making everything OK for my M. She would get upset for me, and emote for me, so I was able to avoid dealing with my own emotions and the really bad marriage I was in by putting all of my energy into dealing with my M and her feelings along with caring for my children and all of the other distractions I had at the time. She made my bad marriage all about her. I didn't realize at the time how incredibly selfish that was.
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on March 06, 2012, 02:24:40 PM
Oh I know and thanks for your encouragement. I needed it today because at work my insides felt like mush, on the verge of crying . To know the whole story you need to scroll down and read  controlling SIL to really get a full story and on adult children read the one about dd being isolated , I'm just worried sick about her . It makes me wonder what and where is that out going, fun relaxed dd of mine gone. I know she has no idea how being with him has changed her personality of which has caused conflicts with some of life long friends, I just hope some will hang in there and keep in touch with her if she quits her job as he wants her to do , she will need the social contact. thanks
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on March 11, 2012, 08:37:09 AM
Well things are still the same and last week I had too much to do here to go plus riding up and back in one day is hard on my small nerve fiber neuropathy, the burn is too much .  Baby still fussy, gassy and not sleeping good like she was hoping, he will be 6 weeks old Monday. I had thought I would spend the night and that was fine with her but I think the hubby doesn't want anyone around to see his shortcomings as this is way out of his comfort zone right now , a fussy baby.  So she thought since baby is still fussy etc maybe just come for the day, I just would have been on fire and time wise not good on day she thougth baby was good. I"m doing what others have said a little tough love, as not to be reduced to texts and emails. From things in past and now , things he has said earlier we are almost sure he reads her text and emails so I don't want to say much for him to have any ammo to use . I'm still thinking I need to take advice from here and get her a pre paid phone since her plan is not free until after 7 and weekends , hubby is paying bills now so she doens't want him to fuss at her for going over as she did befoer the baby , talking to me on her way home from work. I"m feeling better and just hope she is doing good with it all . We will all get through and know that he will be this way as he has been this way all of his life it appears to us now.
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on March 19, 2012, 04:50:28 AM
Well I've not been to see new grandson in 2 weeks now , as he is still so fussy, gassy and not on too much of a schedule so I never know when is a good time and she needs her rest when she can get it so company makes it hard. We are keeping our 6 month old grandson while his parents are out of town with their jobs and wow is it fun. So we they think we rare doing them a favor but really they are doing us a favor for helping to heal the pain from the SIL 's attitude toward us and any family involvement, plus the disconnect from a daughter that we have always been so close to .  So this littlr bundle of joy is giving us so much light this week, now by the end of the week we might need to call the emergency squad to come scoop us up for lack of energy. lol
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: Pen on March 19, 2012, 09:08:55 PM
Oh, that's wonderful that you get to take care of your GS! Enjoy (and take your vitamins, lol.)
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on March 21, 2012, 08:29:33 PM
Such a happy baby and easy to take care of and we did thank goodness for vitamins. I still have a heavy heart that there is the distance between my only child my daughter and myself since her first child was born 6 weeks ago. She is so tired and trying everything to find solutions to her baby's gas and fussiness but they don't got back for check up till april 4 . So she wants to do this on her own , i understand but in my mind i don't know why they haven't called or seen the doctor to ask questions as 8 weeks is a long time to go for a newborn. She nurses on demand and that is all the time and he won't sleep unless she is holding him or he is layign on her / She is worn out / I 'm very concerned as she is stuck at home , can't go anywhere he is too fussy, she does see a neighbor that she can walk baby with but that is it . She is a very outgoing person and hubby is not plus he wants her not to go back to work . So I see the control and how her life might go if she doeen'st go back to work . I"m just heavy hearted with pain for her . WE were so close before she married this guy and now I dont' know what is going on , everyone is in shock as they all know how super close we are , like best friends that jsut have fun together all the time . Now nothing . Im just crushed and don't know what to do . Any advice
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: Pen on March 21, 2012, 09:14:17 PM
(((hugs))) to you, AL. I have no advice for you, just support. It's as if our DC have been taken over by the invasion of the body snatchers. My friends were a little shocked too, they all said "But you were so close!" No preparation, no warning...shocking, as you said.
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: luise.volta on March 21, 2012, 09:38:18 PM
I am wondering about something medical like postpartum depression. Too much change all at once. There may be an underlying cause. Sending love...
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 22, 2012, 12:32:23 AM
My DIL changed over night when she had my GD , that was a shock to my system , so it must be worse with your own DD . We must understand I suppose they are getting used to a whole new way of life . Hopefully when baby has settled and she is more herself , your DD will turn to you once again . Maybe she wants to prove she can do this by herself to her DH to prove something ? Who knows what goes on behind closed doors . It might be his doing  after all . She will need you AL , you're her Mom , waiting is torture I know .
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: Ruth on March 22, 2012, 06:40:25 AM
Artlady, I don't think you can DO much or anything with this situation.  Having walked many miles in your shoes, I can also now safely say that it just isn't your role to do anything.  DD is an adult and has made her own choices, and your role is just to be close by to give love and support when you're called on to do so, and when there is silence, to respect that the married couple are in their own space and working on their own problems in their own way, because they are a unit now.  DD is no longer just yours, but she is part of a family of her own.  I know we have a hard time with this, but we don't have any choice if we're going to have any quality of life, but to accept that we now ride in the back seat, we aren't driving the car any more.  Your time will come as the baby pulls out of this stage, and happy days will be ahead when you can indulge in being a grammie and evolving into a new role.  Whether or not DD remains in this marriage is her own business, she is free to stay or to go.  She is even obviously educated and able to provide for herself if she should choose.  I think you are stressed out, and very fragile emotionally because the birth of a baby is huge and its so easy to get all wrapped up in it.  I think if I were you, I'd get myself involved in something new, whether it be a class or a book club or a new sport, just anything to distance yourself from preoccupation over this problem.  Because you are powerless to make any change there.  You are projecting yourself into your DD's place, and it may not be accurate, she is younger and stronger than you and has more internal resources to deal with the challenges of a challenging infant.  Trust me, I walked that road for 13 years with my DD, in constant anguish and turmoil over her marital situation.  I would say go, she would say no can't.  I would say stay, she would say she couldn't stay and had to go.  It went on like that forever, then in the midst of my sleepless nights and torture, they would take a vacation together and send back a postcard.  Finally, DD made her own decision to leave the marriage, when she was good and ready.  Not that its been smooth, but I had to learn that I'm not God and I can't order the universe to suit her, or any of my loved ones. 
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on March 22, 2012, 06:57:34 AM
Thanks Ruth for the words of wisdom. I worry from afar as they are 100 miles away so i don't see them that much and only hear all the frustration right now of trying to get the baby settled. I know I 'm not going to interject anything about her marriage , in fact that is not a topic we discuss, if she mentions a frustration about her DH , i might comment that is how men are etc but never go any further. It has been so hard as it is like the body snatchers have come in and taken the daughter i did know prior to marriage but if you go back to post of how he acted at reception , since then wedding and at the hospital then you will get a good idea of why I"m worried. I am involved and still working part time thank goodness but it is the time at night when i sit down , or idle time that my mind goes into over drive with concern. I know I can't help her , she has to make her own decisions and that now she is part of her own family, I just so don't want to see her hurt but that in itself is a learning lesson of life and we wll go through those times just hard for a parent to watch. Now I know it was for mine to watch my learning processes. Not fun . Thanks again and this too will pass , she will come out fine and hopefully this baby will bring the DH around to family is an important part of life , as are grandparents , friends etc. To isolate you and your family is not healthy
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on March 23, 2012, 10:39:41 AM
DD called this morning to wish me Happy Birthday ( big 60) we talked like we used to about everything and nothing (lol). Just fun and really made my day. Of course that husband was at work and I guess she just ran up minutes on her phone and will hear about it later from him, since her free time isn't till 7 and he will be home then. This is the first birthday that she hasn't spent with me so I'm sad about that but hearing her voice, she telling me all about the baby stuff, and we talked about NCAA basketball as we are all big BB fans. I do feel soooooooooooooooo much better , so maybe today won't be as bad as I thought . Thanks all
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: luise.volta on March 23, 2012, 10:58:08 AM
Lovely!  :)
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: lancaster lady on March 23, 2012, 11:03:13 AM
Happy Birthday Artlady ....... :) :) :)
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: Pen on March 23, 2012, 11:55:26 AM
ArtLady, happy happy birthday! What a lovely gift of time, conversation and love from your DD. Bask in it!
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: pam1 on March 23, 2012, 11:57:16 AM
Happy Birthday!
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on March 23, 2012, 12:18:47 PM
 :)Thanks all but it is really settling in on me that i'm now the 60 , wow how the last 10 years have gone by so fast. So now i think i'll set my sites on a lot of more years instead of the next 10  lol
Title: Re: should i talk to dd about concerns ?
Post by: artlady on March 24, 2012, 08:06:26 PM
treading lightly , visiting when i can , being there for her but she is trying so hard to do what i know her instincts are telling her in regards to taking care of the baby as he is still gassy, fussy and a nursing machine , so she is a sleep deprived mommy. hubby is researching all things and telling her what she needs to do, as she has told me all these things they have tried , I"m not getting into it as I know not to . She is still pretty cut off from folks but has gotten out of the house alone 2 times in 7 weeks, walks baby with neighbor she just met and her babies. So that makes me feel better. Not asking if she will go back to work as that is their decision but if she stays home as he wants her to do , i fear the control will become worse. Yesterday was my 60th and this is the first birthday she has not celebrated with me , she called and we talked just like we always do about whatever , no problems etc just fun  , i think we talked for 1-2 hours as that is about the 5th time I've talked to her since the baby was born 7 weeks ago since she has no free time til 7 on her phone and he is home so she wont' call in front of him, I hope she doesn't get in trouble for calling on chg time . Of course he didn't or hasn't acknowledged my bd, she wanted us to come up for dinner , or lunch with them but it is my birthday , I've got small nerve fiber neuropathy and riding is very hard for me , I can do it but i pay for days. So riding up and back in one day is a dozy for me .I think I'll go up and back one day next week while he is at work. Right now after how he has treated us since the wedding and now especially at the hospital it hurts to be around him and he has been rude at the house too .  DH is done but he will go but had rather avoid him , just see dd and gs. So life is the same , I'm older now do you think I'll get wiser ?  lOL