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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: Winter04 on May 06, 2011, 07:43:29 AM

Title: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Winter04 on May 06, 2011, 07:43:29 AM
I am new to this site. I suppose I am desperately trying to find a way to change my own behavior and gain wisdom/advice from those in the same position I find myself. My 25-yr old daughter barely speaks to me. I have given up trying to have a phone conversation with her, and heaven forbid I dare send her a text message. I have lived through a decade of her psychological issues (anorexia, depression, OCD, anxiety, etc), and I am slowly learning to let go of the expectations I once had for her. She maintains a low-paying job, and continues to be involved with an emotionally abusive "boyfriend." She says she is attending college (she lives two hours from me). However, I have learned the painful way how frequently she lies to me - I don't analyze the reasons - but I never know what to believe. Her father and I have heavily subsidized her existence financially for several years and my resentment at this is escalating. Oddly, I can't seem to break this pattern, because I am so afraid of what will happen to her if I do. I know that despite my profound disappointment and grief, I will always love her. I can't bring myself to cut off the flow of money, regardless of the impact this is having on me personally. This situation is draining me emotionally, physically, and financially. It goes without saying I am heartbroken. I sense she hates me, but needs the money.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: holliberri on May 06, 2011, 07:47:51 AM
I am sorry, Winter, but welcome you the boards! I think a lot of women are going through something similar here.

If you haven't already done so, please read our Forum Agreement under "Open Me." Just a small formality. I hope you are comfortable here!
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Pen on May 06, 2011, 08:39:00 AM
Winter, welcome. I'm sorry you're going through this. It's painful to mourn the death of our expectations for our adult children and to realize our relationship with them has become less than fulfilling. There are no Hallmark cards for this. Some of us are embarrassed as if society is judging us - we must have done something wrong, our parenting is suspect, etc. etc. which only adds to our pain. Please take care of yourself, Winter, as you move through this process. As Luise & other WW say, trying to make sense of it is often futile, and the only person you can change is yourself. Luise also says that we were someone before we had kids and we'll still be someone when they're grown and gone. Or something like that. You will stop supporting your DD financially when you are ready to start living for yourself. {{{hugs}}}
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: justus on May 06, 2011, 08:41:13 AM
Winter, I think you are doing her a great deal of harm by throwing money at her. You are keeping her from becoming an adult and you are doing it to appease your own feelings of fear rather than for her benefit. I get the feeling that there are some control issues here as well. If you can keep her coming back for money, she won't totally cut you out of her life and you have a "right" to information and some involvement in her life.

Maybe I am way off, if so, ask yourself what you are getting out of this, and if this is a healthy way to get what you need.

It is well bast the time to let her go.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: MoonChild on May 06, 2011, 08:47:40 AM
Hello and welcome! I too am new to this site as of a few days ago. I am not a mother but yesterday I shared the following on a different thread (FDIL said she won) and I thought that maybe some of my experiences and revelations may help you find insight into what your daughter may be going through and feeling, as I went through a similar situation:

I will say that growing up my parents made sure that I had any opportunity that I wanted, they wanted me to be able to succeed in life, as any parent would want for their child. However when I made the decision to put college on hold our relationship became strained. I was so used to having them provide everything for me a place to live, food to eat, my own car, spending money, etc. Now they never took any of this away out right, but they did begin to limit things and they expected me to find a job and begin to pay my own credit card bills. They wanted me to learn the value of the money I was earning and to do this I had to fail, and I am so thankful they let me fall!
When I moved out it was hard for all of us, they didn't want me to leave and I didn't want to leave 'the good life', but I knew that if I didn't get out there on my own I never would and I would never be able to prove to them that I could make it on my own. When I would get into financial trouble I was always too scared to tell my parents for the fear of them being disappointed, or the thought of them thinking 'I told you so'. The only thing worse than an angry parent is a disappointed parent, at least in my mind. It took me over a year to get my finances in order and learn how to handle my money. I had to go through closing my credit cards, paying off my debts, having my phone turned off a couple of times, living without a car, the list of learning experiences goes on and on. Over time though I was able to establish a budget to meet my expenses and needs. 
Sometimes as children, especially spoiled children, when our parents provide everything for us we begin to just expect these things without a question, and then when they begin to take these things away we don't initially realize that they are trying to help us grow. Instead, at least in my experience, we begin to think things like 'why don't they love me anymore, am I not good enough anymore, etc'. In my situation, I was able to accept their decision to stop paying my bills when we all sat down and they verbalized their feelings on the entire situation and gave a clear explanation as to why they were doing this and the ways they would still like to help me to achieve my goals of living on my own, by helping me create a budget. When I began to prove to them that I was serious about everything we agreed to, that is when our relationship began to heal and grow on many new and different levels; now they were seeing that I was taking responsibility for my past, my present and my future. It is hard to see the ones we love fall but to see them climb and learn from their missteps is such a joy for all involved.
Keep the lines of communication open, even when my parents and I were in a rough patch they still made a point of inviting me to dinner every Sunday, for me it was their way of saying 'we love you, we understand that you want to be on your own but we are always here for you and you will always have a spot at the dinner table.' It is easy to cut someone off but it is so much harder to say 'I'm sorry'. Sometimes we have to fall to learn to grow and sometimes we have to let someone go so that they can come back.
As children, for me anyways, we want nothing more than for our parents to be proud of us and our accomplishments. And hearing those words 'we love you and we are so proud' is the only thing we want to hear. As one who is still trying to overcome my self-imposed pressure to 'be good' I will often doubt myself and become a bit depressed because I feel like I am not living up to my parents' expectations. I wonder if other children create false parental expectations in their own mind too that causes them unnecessary stress? When I vocalize my feelings to my parents they always make a point of assuring me that their only expectations of me are that they want me to be happy in life and then they tell me how proud they are and that they love me. Sometimes it is the simplest things we say that have the most profound impact, good and bad. If we all made a point of telling those we love that we love them and we did so everyday would that put everyone's fears of acceptance at bay and thus we may all have less conflict in our lives?

And to the Moms out there please know that there is nothing wrong with being a softie and helping the children you love. We tend to look at being 'soft' as a weakness but for me I think it just means that you have so much love you tend to let it cloud your vision. My parents would tease me that while eating dinner the dogs would always sit next to me because I was a 'sucker' for their cute begging puppy faces, and I would always retort that I was not a sucker I was a LOVER!

Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: themuffin on May 06, 2011, 09:37:06 AM
Quote from: Pen on May 06, 2011, 08:39:00 AM
Winter, welcome. I'm sorry you're going through this. It's painful to mourn the death of our expectations for our adult children and to realize our relationship with them has become less than fulfilling. There are no Hallmark cards for this. Some of us are embarrassed as if society is judging us - we must have done something wrong, our parenting is suspect, etc. etc. which only adds to our pain. Please take care of yourself, Winter, as you move through this process. As Luise & other WW say, trying to make sense of it is often futile, and the only person you can change is yourself. Luise also says that we were someone before we had kids and we'll still be someone when they're grown and gone. Or something like that. You will stop supporting your DD financially when you are ready to start living for yourself. {{{hugs}}}

So well written, Pen.  Such true and wise words.  You are right, there is no Hallmark card for this.  When I did a search (My son hates me) I didn't expect to find anything.  It is also true that you wonder if others think DC may have reasons, although you, yourself can't imagine any that would create such hatred.  It is a futile waste of energy to try to figure it out.  I have heard stories of terrible abuse and still the DC love the parents.  And here the WW haven't done anything close to that and we don't know why our DC don't seem to love us.  There is no rhyme or reason to it so don't kill yourself trying to figure it out.

Quote from: justus on May 06, 2011, 08:41:13 AM
Winter, I think you are doing her a great deal of harm by throwing money at her. You are keeping her from becoming an adult and you are doing it to appease your own feelings of fear rather than for her benefit. I get the feeling that there are some control issues here as well. If you can keep her coming back for money, she won't totally cut you out of her life and you have a "right" to information and some involvement in her life.

Maybe I am way off, if so, ask yourself what you are getting out of this, and if this is a healthy way to get what you need.

It is well bast the time to let her go.

Justus-I think Winter is doing herself a great deal of harm as well.  I don't think that Winter is trying to stop DD from becoming an adult by giving her money, nor do I believe she's trying to contol her.   I think that she's trying to hang on to her the only way she knows how.  I thinks she knows that money is now the only connection she has with her DD and when she cuts that off there will be no connection with DD. 

I know what you are saying and I do agree with where you are going.  But it's a process. She needs to let this DD go.  For DD's sake as well as her own.  She needs to prepare herself for the "loss" of her child.  It seems that she's taken a step in that direction by coming here.  Hopefully, our stories and our words of wisdom will help her to move forward so that she can live her life again and be happy.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: lancaster lady on May 06, 2011, 10:41:20 AM
Hello Winter 04 :
I have a daughter too who I support occasionally now , but more so when she was your daughter's age .
the difference is she treated me better .
If a friend of yours treated you with such contempt , would you continue to bail them out financially ?
I expect not . I don't know why we continue to support members of our family without any thanks or respect in return .
I suppose it's because we love them , but to what end ? In your case to make you ill and heartbroken .Why do this to yourself ?
From now on you must insist on a repayment program .It will help teach her the value of money and perhaps how to budget .
you're going have to be cruel to be kind ....in the end it will benefit you both .
You are the parent , do not take this abuse from your DD .
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: themuffin on May 06, 2011, 11:00:21 AM
Quote from: lancaster lady on May 06, 2011, 10:41:20 AM
Hello Winter 04 :
I have a daughter too who I support occasionally now , but more so when she was your daughter's age .
the difference is she treated me better .
If a friend of yours treated you with such contempt , would you continue to bail them out financially ?
I expect not . I don't know why we continue to support members of our family without any thanks or respect in return .
I suppose it's because we love them , but to what end ? In your case to make you ill and heartbroken .Why do this to yourself ?
From now on you must insist on a repayment program .It will help teach her the value of money and perhaps how to budget .
you're going have to be cruel to be kind ....in the end it will benefit you both .
You are the parent , do not take this abuse from your DD .

Winter-I wish I had followed those wise words before allowing DS to move back home almost a year ago.  We would probably still have a relationship.  Or at least some respect.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: jill on May 06, 2011, 11:04:04 AM
Hi Winter, and welcome to WWU.  Many of us are going through the same thing as you.  The children we gave birth to and nurtured and would have died for have just kicked us to the kerb. I would cease giving her money, and try to back off and not contact her.  Try to think of yourself, very difficult I know.  Sometimes I think I am doing well, but it has not been a good week with Mothers' day on Sunday.    Best Wishes...................Jill
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: LaurieS on May 06, 2011, 11:22:37 AM
I don't know why we all fall prey to the 'Hallmark Moments'... so many people were sad when Thanksgiving was approaching, they don't even catch their breath and then it's Christmas.... Valentine's, Easter, Mother's Day, Father's Day and the list goes on and on and with it so do the reasons to be sad.  We were even sad over Halloween.  I'm not going to let a holiday amplify my feelings whether my feelings are high or low. 

I'm afraid that we are all just continually setting ourselves up for heartache and why, because we in part think this is how we are suppose to feel if the holiday is less then picture perfect.  If we continue to dread the upcoming holiday days even weeks in advance then how can we feel nothing but sadness once the day arrives.  I vote for crossing out all the holidays on my calendar and then I can dread what I'm suppose to dread.. the day I have marked off for a dentist appt.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: lancaster lady on May 06, 2011, 11:25:09 AM
I agree Laurie ....
I just think it makes people who are alone more aware of their predicament .
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: MoonChild on May 06, 2011, 11:27:29 AM
i.e. valentines day = singles awareness day
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: LaurieS on May 06, 2011, 11:34:27 AM
You don't even have to be alone LL.... I see people who are bummed if it's not the perfect setting as in anything less then a scene for a Rockwell painting.  And we are doing this to ourselves.  I talked to my grandmother the other day, she is 99 and it's been less then a year since grandpa passed away at 100 .... even at 99 she is finding things to smile about and a life that is worth living to it's fullest.  At 98 she got on a airplane for the first time and took a trip to Florida.. she is back in Florida as I speak, having a good time again.

It's like buying that new wallet LL...you didn't open it and see the canned picture that they put in the photo slot and sigh because that isn't what you or your dh looks like.  We don't leave the photos that come in our picture frames in place because they represent our lives better then we do.. so why do we gage our worth and our relationships based on what someone else declares is the perfect holiday?
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: themuffin on May 06, 2011, 11:39:20 AM
Quote from: Laurie on May 06, 2011, 11:22:37 AM
I don't know why we all fall prey to the 'Hallmark Moments'... so many people were sad when Thanksgiving was approaching, they don't even catch their breath and then it's Christmas.... Valentine's, Easter, Mother's Day, Father's Day and the list goes on and on and with it so do the reasons to be sad.  We were even sad over Halloween.  I'm not going to let a holiday amplify my feelings whether my feelings are high or low. 

I'm afraid that we are all just continually setting ourselves up for heartache and why, because we in part think this is how we are suppose to feel if the holiday is less then picture perfect.  If we continue to dread the upcoming holiday days even weeks in advance then how can we feel nothing but sadness once the day arrives.  I vote for crossing out all the holidays on my calendar and then I can dread what I'm suppose to dread.. the day I have marked off for a dentist appt.

I didn't think of it that way.  I get what you are saying and it's so true.  I won't fall prey to those beautiful Hallmark sentiments during the holidays because they won't represent my family life.  I won't look at the Mother's Day cards where the DC is nothing but love and praise and allow myself to be too depressed (or at least I'll try not to).  When Pen wrote there was no Hallmark card for this I immediately started to think, "Yeah, right!  I've never seen the card that says on the cover, "Sorry your son hates you".

Hey, maybe there should be. Maybe we should start a new line of Hallmark Cards.  Some of them could even be humorous. "Sorry your son hates you.....Thank God you've got two more!"  Hey, maybe that was religious.

Ummm...just kidding.  We need to smile today.  We should smile everyday. No one has the power to wipe the smiles off our faces but us.

WWU!!!
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: LaurieS on May 06, 2011, 11:44:44 AM
even your butt cheeks turned sideways is a smile
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: holliberri on May 06, 2011, 11:46:08 AM
I am 100% totally for crossing out all holidays. LOL.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: themuffin on May 06, 2011, 11:47:55 AM
LOL, Laurie, Your hubby must love you!!  Laughter is such a gift and you give it here, so I know you give it at home.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: LaurieS on May 06, 2011, 12:22:16 PM
oh I give him so much more the laughter.. sometimes I think he wishes I wasn't so generous with my emotions :)
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: lancaster lady on May 06, 2011, 01:31:30 PM
hey Laurie ...my DH is a pretty handsome guy .....remember Bryan Ferry ? ....Well that's who my guy looked like .
Except he know has silver hair ....lol
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: LaurieS on May 06, 2011, 01:39:19 PM
bryan ferry .. can't say I've ever heard of him, I had to look him up.. now talk about some of the other (4) guys from England and I won't have to search
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Pooh on May 09, 2011, 10:24:24 AM
Sorry but I am soooo keeping my holidays.  I like them too much!  I may miss my OS during them, but that doesn't mean I can't still enjoy them.  I rearranged my life for his first 20 years because I was the Mother, I'll be danged if I'm rearranging my calendar for him!  He doesn't hold that much power any longer.  ;D
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Pen on May 09, 2011, 10:43:10 AM
Way to go, Pooh.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Kara487 on May 10, 2011, 12:55:25 PM
I think its time to let go . she is who she is. I agree with other posters that say stop bailing her out . It will force her to grow up. My sil is the same way and her parents support her and pay her bills. she is an entitled spoiled brat. You are doing more harm than good by bailing her out because she will never learn to support herself. Unfourtnely you will not always be there for her.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: LaurieS on May 10, 2011, 03:16:32 PM
I agree Pooh.. the holidays are for us to spend and cherish in a way that makes us happy .... my point was not allowing the commercial aspect dictate what is suppose to be the normal or proper way to celebrate.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: holliberri on May 10, 2011, 03:21:03 PM
Yeah, I agree Laurie. It's not the holiday itself, it's the expectations and the standards that have somehow become established as "must-dos."
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: LaurieS on May 10, 2011, 03:30:36 PM
We are so quick to denounce expectations that we feel we are owed by being parents, children, in-laws.. yet are so willing to accept what others who have no care for us other then to generate a reason for us to spend money while they profit decide how we are to rate the success of a holiday, family, or our lives for that matter.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: lancaster lady on May 10, 2011, 03:31:50 PM
Don't tell me you've cancelled Christmas ..... :o
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: holliberri on May 10, 2011, 04:02:10 PM
All of the expectations bother me. I really think I had a good Mother's Day only b/c I didn't expect a card, or expected the day to be about me. I don't do Valentine's Day b/c DH really wouldn't be interested in a card or a new watch...he's more interested in my making sure his clothes are hemmed properly. I had zero expectations for this (maybe b/c I never had one before?)....and I'd like to keep it that way.

And, parents, ILs and children all perpetuate the commercial expectations b/c they buy into it. Who says I have to get a Valentine's Day card for the dog? Hallmark...and my grandmother.

MIL was upset b/c I did not get a basket for DD. I got her a toy. Apparently, I was supposed to buy a basket. MIL wasn't even there. Who says I have to buy a basket for an infant? I like Fafe's idea of a wagon, myself.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Sun_is_still_shining on May 10, 2011, 04:40:35 PM
My MIL cancelled Christmas twice LOL! (years ago.. before DH and I were even together) Called up SIL and said "Christmas is CANCELLED!" Haha! Maybe for you?? Geeez.. Holidays! Bah Humbug!  ;D
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: LaurieS on May 10, 2011, 04:41:38 PM
No basket?  Bet your head started spinning as you began to speak in tongues.  I once took my infant to see the Easter Bunny... I have a photo of it .. can we say terrified? Realistically a infant 'needs' so very little.. a basket is a photo opportunity and not a whole lot more.  Now chocolate is a whole different subject.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: pam1 on May 10, 2011, 04:44:50 PM
Quote from: Sun_is_still_shining on May 10, 2011, 04:40:35 PM
My MIL cancelled Christmas twice LOL! (years ago.. before DH and I were even together) Called up SIL and said "Christmas is CANCELLED!" Haha! Maybe for you?? Geeez.. Holidays! Bah Humbug!  ;D

I had to laugh at this, big time.  MIL pulled that one year -- "Fine then!  Next year there will be no Xmas!"  to a bunch of 30 and 40 year olds.  I admit, I smiled with utter glee.

Personally, I just do not like the monotony of holidays.  I don't like knowing year in and year out that I *have* to not only get people certain presents but I also have to make certain people stockings (yes my PILs expect Xmas stockings from their kids.)  I don't like that only so-and-so can host 4th of July and only another person can pick out what the kids are getting MIL/FIL.  I do not enjoy fuss and drama and doing the same darn thing every year.  Booooring!
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: holliberri on May 10, 2011, 04:50:24 PM
She's already worried that I'll start speaking in tongues anyhow. LOL.

The chocolate probably won't ever make it to the basket (wagon!) for my kids. I'm quite sure it'll be full of jelly beans and starburst instead. You know, all the leftovers.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Sun_is_still_shining on May 10, 2011, 05:30:56 PM
Pam: LOL! Some people think they are pretty important.. I though christmas was for the kiddies anyway..

I usually love the holidays. I love spending Christmas with my little family and extended family (both sides.. well not this year  >:( ) I don't have much financial obligation in regards to gifting extended family since there is just wayy to many of us on all sides, which is good since I don't really believe in excessive consumerism.  I only have one aunt (my dad's sister) who thinks that all the cousins on our side should go and buy gifts from the dollar store for each other.. results in a massive amount of junk that no one really has much use for.. I got booed for my suggestion of giftcard exchange of the equal amount spent, or maybe we should just enjoy spending time together without all the unnecessary junk. The only presents are your presence. ;)  (I have removed myself this familial flop)
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: pam1 on May 10, 2011, 05:39:12 PM
Sun, I like holidays too however I don't like only seeing sp-and-so backyard for 4th of July lol.  I just do not like the pressure and commercialism.  My favorite holiday memories have always been something small, Dad making pancakes.  Mom crying every year at the same movie lol.

I just cannot wrap my head around the entitlement that these holiday hogs carry around. 
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Rose799 on May 10, 2011, 06:01:25 PM
Quote from: pam1 on May 10, 2011, 05:39:12 PM
My favorite holiday memories have always been something small, Dad making pancakes.  Mom crying every year at the same movie lol.

Pam, your post reminded me of a young girl on the Oprah show years ago.   When her dm was diagnosed with cancer, the dp's quit their jobs & took their 2 dd's out of school to go on a long road trip.  They traveled all over the country for about a year, as I recall.  The dm had passed away when she & her dad appeared on the show.  When asked what her favorite part of the trip was, this 7-8 year old girl hesitated for a minute & then said it was when her dm quietly woke her in the middle of the night & just the two of them went & ate Cheerios. 

I'd like to spend holidays with you, Pam...
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: pam1 on May 10, 2011, 06:19:55 PM
Thank you for telling that story, Rose.  It's beautiful.

I think holidays would be fun with you too :)  Hopefully one day we can do a WWU meet up, I have a feeling it would be terrifically fun!
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Sun_is_still_shining on May 11, 2011, 05:47:39 AM
Awww.. what a lovely story. The power of seemingly simplistic events.. I love it! Those kids are so fortunate to be able to have such wonderful memories of their DM.. Cancer is such a nasty disease..

Yes, I definately have to agree with you on the holiday HOGS who think that they are the only ones that can do an event.. It's like Easter at my aunts. She won't let anyone else do it, it's HER holiday. I wouldn't even mind doing it myself. I love colouring eggs! lol! It's actually really huge with us. We have an "egg fight" in morning for breakfast. It's some of my fondest memories of my Grama who passed away years and years ago.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: themuffin on May 11, 2011, 06:44:06 AM
Quote from: Rose799 on May 10, 2011, 06:01:25 PM
Quote from: pam1 on May 10, 2011, 05:39:12 PM
My favorite holiday memories have always been something small, Dad making pancakes.  Mom crying every year at the same movie lol.

Pam, your post reminded me of a young girl on the Oprah show years ago.   When her dm was diagnosed with cancer, the dp's quit their jobs & took their 2 dd's out of school to go on a long road trip.  They traveled all over the country for about a year, as I recall.  The dm had passed away when she & her dad appeared on the show.  When asked what her favorite part of the trip was, this 7-8 year old girl hesitated for a minute & then said it was when her dm quietly woke her in the middle of the night & just the two of them went & ate Cheerios. 

I'd like to spend holidays with you, Pam...

What a lovely story. It brought tears to my eyes.  I'd love to do holidays with the Wise Women on this forum. :)
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Donna on May 12, 2011, 10:50:46 PM
Hi Winter:  I am glad you wrote here, I did last week numb and feeling like the rug had been pulled out from under me, left me breathless.  Many beautiful hearts wrote me back, and gave me such encouragement and strength.  It is a few days later, and I am stronger and find sometimes one has to realize the truths of the situation and sometimes giving and giving and doing and doing has just got to stop, as they trample all over you.  It's hard, its difficult, we so are born to nurture to give to support to help, and we want to be in denial of the lies and the deceit, but one day it hits you like a ton of rocks, and the truth is right there in front of you.  My heart truly hurts for you, I know I have been there, am there and will always love them, and do forgive them even tho they won't realize it for many years to come, unfortunate baggage they have chosen to carry around.  I read a lot of stories on this site, and go some great insight, and realized when I had made my decision to basically divorce my two DD and DS; it was a wise decision; as the torture was they continually nipped at the umbilical cord and caused pain, chaos, drama, why not slice it clean and let them become the adults they choose to become.  Difficult decision but made.  Your daughter may after a period of time realize her loss and change her ways rather than you changing you to accommodate her.  I have learned there is no need for a parent to be screamed at, yelled at, lied to, deceived, especially those parents that love unconditionally and only want the best for their children.  I think this is one place we make our mistakes, we want better for them than we had, and so we give more and more, and the more you give the less respect and care you seem to get.  I wish we all could have the perfect scenario.  To me it was a reality there were other parents out there who had the same issues I have endured for years.  I only wished I would have found this sight sooner, I would have saved myself much grief and agony; as I felt I was what they insinuated a bad parent.  Knowing I wasn't was okay for me, but feeling their indignant attitudes crushed me, crumbled me over and over.  This week has been a good week, I have also opened up to some wise people who have supported me with my decision and understand why my choice, writing out how you feel is so important, day by day, it will get easier, especially once you realize you are FAR FROM ALONE. 

Sometimes its time to think about you and your life and what you want to do with the rest of your life.  Sometimes we had dreams and we have to let go of those dreams maybe temporarily maybe forever, but in the meantime you can find you, find out what you love to do, concentrate on you and spoil yourself, go for a massage, get your nails done, walk leisurely in the morning, and at every moment tell yourself what a wonderful human being you are, how special you are, don't rate yourself on what your daughter says, she hasn't lived the years you have already worked, and those ratings don't count, as they come from a place of me, I, so reprogram how you think of you.  Give yourself a hug, a big hug, write yourself a note telling you how great you are, as you are, every woman who has given her heart to her children is a wonderful woman a beautiful woman, when these children hurt the one who loves them the most, in truth they hurt themselves.  Let your daughter wear her baggage for awhile and you just take a long hot bath, and know there are many women out there feeling like you, hurting, and all for not.   Keep writing how you feel, don't be a stranger, I wrote many things on this site I have not shared with anyone, and hey they were only the coles notes version.  So journal, vent, do what you must, but know you are a great human being, a wonderful person, a loving mother, but most of all you have life to live and just need to take a different path for a bit.  Here is a big hug for you.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Nana on May 13, 2011, 02:27:29 AM
Donna

Beautiful post to Winter.  You are so right.  We all have a life to live....the best one we can live under the circumstances.  So just as our children, we are or were someone's children and they also wanted us to be happy....so lets be happy.   I always think.....I love and have myself....
We accomplished our job of raising our children with love and always acting in what we thought was in their best interest.  Now we owe it to ourselves to retake our lives, move forward  and  enjoy all those small things that life brings us day by day.    Having no expectations is the best we can do....expect nothing....if anything positive comes,  it will be a blessing.  Life can surprise us.

Best wishes for you Donna and Winter.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: themuffin on May 13, 2011, 05:27:51 AM
Hi Donna,

  Ditto what Nana said.  Hard to believe you've been here for such a short time.  Your posts are so insightful and filled with inspirational advice.  I'm so glad you found us.  Wise Women United just got wiser. ;)
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Pooh on May 13, 2011, 06:11:55 AM
Beautifully written Donna.  And of course my wonderful Nana always writes such uplifting things.  Love my Nana!
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Pen on May 13, 2011, 08:06:15 AM
What Pooh, Muffin & Donna said  :)
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Donna on May 13, 2011, 08:29:17 AM
Nana ~The Muffin ~ Pooh:  You are all so right, living our lives now, enjoying what we can, and if anything extra happens rejoice, as I believe we have all come to learn that we can not and are not responsible to make that extra with our children.  TheMuffin, your writing to me, so opened the gates of knowledge, this site, was an immediate blessing and recognition that I was not alone, that this was not only my problem, this is now a systemic universal problem.  All we can do is what we are presented with but most importantly we can support each other, and each woman as she enters this site, tell people about this site, as there is nothing worse than believing you are alone, and suffering in silence a universal situation.  All of the support from the wise women here, flicked my switch towards facing truth so fast, there is no turning back. 

It doesn't end, as you continue to get information whether you ask or not, yesterday I had two friends F B me, telling me my DD had dropped them off of their F B?  Instead of feeling embarrassed I just wrote and told them the situation, one old friend wrote back and said, I'd like to hang her up in my games room and use her for a dart board for awhile.  This former single mom has also raised her children, and has mega problems with her eldest DS; so she knows the feelings.  My reply back to this was for me it's forgiven and not forgotten, and just a choice of not wanting chaos in my life.   She is now an adult and this is now her baggage, and she will hopefully be on this earth a lot longer than I. 

However that got me to thinking, and I wonder if our loving our children too much resulting in such angry children at the ones who gave so much to them, will ever feel the pain they have caused us.  Will they be loving parents?  Will they have the same dedication and spirit towards wanting the best for their children as us?  When I think of my DD taking and lack of emotional sharing, I am perplexed what will be for my GC.  However this is obsessing into the future, and not healthy, but a prudent consideration for those pining for GC. 

My eyes are wide open, and strangely so is my heart.  Running parallel to these events I have also had a wonderful youth experience, which I understand the pain.  A young man, several months ago came to me to get his vehicle repaired, the cost would be $300.00.  I told him, and he said, I only have $100.00 but I could pay you and he gave me a schedule.  Most repair shops don't give credit, but I looked at this young man (17) and I said, yes, okay, as I knew I was looking into the soul of a young person who was trying.  As life would be, he paid his debt exactly as he had said he would give or take a day here or there, who cares.  I then later find out, this young man had lost his brother a year and a half ago, and had gone last summer to an aunts place as his mom was having problems coping.  The family was a single parent family.  When he returned to do his last year of Grade 12, his mother was no longer in town, she had left in her depression and her sadness and disappeared.   I found out the young man had been surfing couches, and eating whatever he could, working wherever he could.  Bless his two teachers as they finally got the story out of him just prior to him saying THWI and going to the streets.  One kind mother ensured daily there was a lunch bag in the fridge with his name on it.  The teachers involve SS and got him a roof over his head and monthly food allowance.  Things were getting better for him.  He decided to take a trip with his buddies and got so far and his vehicle croaked, together they came up with $600.00 to pay the tow truck driver, and the vehicle landed on my door step.  The clutch and transmission were gone.  He had no money for his phone, and I had no way to contact him.  So my husband and I discussed it and put the vehicle back together.  He finally got some money and showed up at the shop, and we told him his vehicle was ready, he had no idea what was wrong and almost died with the cost of the repair.  I told him, don't panic, pay me what you can when you can, and be honest with me and in the end you will get a Good S__T discount.  This settled him down a lot.  I then offered him an after school job to help out at the shop, and summer employment. 

We are very comfortable with each other and I asked him if he felt his mom loved his brother more, and this is why she broke down.  Very sadly he confirmed, these were his feelings.  I explained to him, she is so devastated by the loss, she can't see what she has, and that one day she will heal and she will return and it will be very difficult for her as she knows she did leave him behind.  I spoke to him about forgiveness, as that would make his life better, and also would make her life much better when that day comes.  Strangely it all made sense to him. 

What is so strange is one has their own DS and DD they have given the world to, and then one runs across a child so left, with so much hurt, and yet so much promise.  He has his after grad go to college plan, and he has two years after he turns 19 the gov will support him.

My husband and I give a scholarship yearly to a local school; but will be changing it for the next few years, to ensure he receives the scholarship as he is in a different school. 

It's as if God sent a blessing our way in this young man, as we see the stark differences in willingness, energy and appreciation.  Yesterday, we had him help us launch the boat, together with a friend of mine who is a female ex policewoman.  They immediately hit it off, and as we were walking back from the dock he said to me, sometimes you just meet people who you know are good, I can just feel the goodness in your friend, and I turned to him and said, I am certain she feels the goodness in you.  When we were parting, he went to her and gave her one big hug, it was so nice to see, as I knew he knew he had connected with goodness.

So in this world of broken hearts, broken dreams, is a myriad of the same but in different perspectives, and as wise women we have the ability to reach out to each other and to others, and help with the pain, as we grow stronger ~ forgive and live longer. 

My many thanks for the many blessings and Winter I share this with you, as each passes, and as you spend time on this site reading and listening to what people are talking about, you will feel less devastated, become stronger, and know you are supported.

When we were born, there was no guarantee we would have an easy journey, there was no guarantee how long that journey would be, we were given the breath of life, and I don't know why it takes women so long, but we were given the right to make a choice, and sometimes it just takes us a bit more time to learn about the choices we make.

I've also learned what you give you give without expectation, it's gone ~ but when you receive a word, a thought, a card, a smile, nothing can be as precious.  God also gives us special gifts, one of mine was service, another is patience.  My own children always resented the fact I loved helping people, the more I gave to another the less they felt they could have.  I am glad they did not manage to take this away from me for it has indeed been my greatest pleasure in life.

Everyone needs a hug today - and every woman out there, you are so beautiful, so precious and don't think other than this of yourself - you deserve all that can be good.  Have a wonderful day.  Donna
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Pooh on May 13, 2011, 08:53:45 AM
That was absolutely beautiful Donna and a very uplifting story.  Thank you.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: jill on May 13, 2011, 10:13:56 AM
Donna, loved your posts, you certainly are a wise lady :) :) :)......Jill
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: AnonymousDIL on May 13, 2011, 10:24:05 AM
Donna, if your intent was to make me cry, you succeeded! lol Beautiful post.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Nana on May 13, 2011, 10:35:40 AM
Yes...thank God we are having wonderful people join our forum....Luise's forum. 

Welcome Donna.

Love
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Donna on May 13, 2011, 11:16:22 AM
Everyone is so inspirational, and has so much to share, brings so much love to this forum, so much understanding.  Luise was so wise in starting this - and to think duh it took me so long to get here.  I have to laugh as for all my life I was able to just listen to someone's woe and bango I knew the right words and how and where to point them.  All along my life had been a struggle, I could never fathom out my own issues and then I started to listen and study, and learned how to breathe when issues would arrise and not take the bait, that was definitely an incredible aid to help me, as then I would be able to stand back and see it from a different perspective, and be able to take my own ego out of the picture.  I believe in my first post, I was stunned that I had no tears no ability to cry, that I had reached a point of knowing the truth and acceptance, my only question was does this happen to others, and bless you Luise as I found out it happens to many.  I will be on this forum hopefully for a very long time, as I truly don't wish for anyone to struggle and feel unsupported as I did for years and years and years.  The easiest thing to do in life is smile, the most precious gift is love, and every one needs to be listened to, everyone needs to be heard, I hope I am around a long time to hear a lot of stories, and give my best to support all who come to this forum and all who pass through my life.  Kindness and Care to All
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Dianna on May 13, 2011, 12:05:22 PM
Hello, I have been following this website for quite some time but have never posted.  That was until today, when I was moved by another new member, Donna.  Beautiful words flowed from your fingers capturing the pain that I have been forced to feel due to my distant child. I too am in awe of how inspirational this site is, as I have been reading postings forever.
Donna, your gift for words is enviable, if only I could express myself as clearly, I know a burden would be lifted from my heart. Please do continue to post as I felt that I am gaining enough strength from your words to venture forward with my own sad story. Thank you Donna, Thank you ladies.

Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Rose799 on May 13, 2011, 01:09:56 PM
Welcome Dianna,

Thanks to Luise, we have this place to share, laugh & cry together...  Feel free to share your story whenever you're ready. 

Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: holliberri on May 13, 2011, 01:26:10 PM
Welcome Dianna,

I'm so glad you have decided to join us! I hope that you have had a change to read the Forum Agreement under Open Me First. Just a formality. Again, welcome! I look forward to hearing your story! I'm sure you will fit in as easily as Donna has.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Pen on May 13, 2011, 04:10:10 PM
Welcome Dianna, I think you express yourself quite well. I'm sure you will be a wonderful addition to the site. I agree, Donna's post was beautiful.
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Kennedy on May 13, 2011, 10:23:28 PM
Welcome Donna and Dianna,
Donna as the others have already said, I too have been deeply touched by your sweet and true words. I pray the Lord will always help you through the hard times. And I also sent up a prayer that you and your husband are blessed for helping others.
I too find great joy and fulfillment in helping others when I can. We had many tornado's in our surrounding areas last month and the total deviation is to much to understand. We have been out trying to help in any way we can every weekend and some week days. I feel such a blessing from doing the small things I'm able to do.
Believe me when I say that I am a thousand times more blessed from doing than those I try to do for.
I understand about some children being takers like you were talking about also. I think we each have to do what we feel is right for us at the time. I pray for you all the strength you need.
Since finding this site myself I have felt so much better and understood than I was! There are some very kind and wise women here!
Many Blessing!! And welcome again to you both!
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Donna on May 13, 2011, 11:09:31 PM
Dianna:

I am so glad you have been reading and somehow my words moved you to start by introducing yourself.  I was thinking earlier tonight that it was just two Sunday's ago, my husband wanted to take the boat out and get me out of the house as I was so devastated, but I would not go and plainly told him, honey I can't I will throw myself into the ocean, I feel so devastated so unneeded, so uncared for; I told him very honestly I was depressed, and it was a huge risk to even think of going.   It was a hard and difficult Sunday, following my DS telling me how he and his SS planned my early demise if my dear beloved husband were to get ill with the cancer they removed and pass away.  I was nauseated as he told me how he would sell my precious stone collections for a nickle a piece, but get all the good stuff.  Yes, I was insulted, hurt, and in terrible pain.  Somehow I managed through that Sunday, and made it through another week, and in that week great resolve through more actions came to me.  I am so glad you have been reading on this site, as I had not been, but when I found it, I was so amazed at how many stories, how many people share my grief, I was not alone.  Knowing this is not a singular journey is painful in knowing so many such as yourself Dianna suffer from Adult Children hurting you, and I would love to hear your story.  Sometimes to journal one's experiences, helps to put things in focus.  When you sit back and read it, it becomes real in your mind, instead of just hurting in your heart.  Pain Management has a lot to do with exchanging where the pain is with another stimulation, and as you know; our hearts are heavy and our pain is immense.  Transferring it all logically into your brain, may be a way to deal with it logically, a step at a time.  My heart reaches out to yours knowing you are hurting.  Tomorrow I am going fishing and there is no way, I'd slip off the boat.  There lies the difference between letting the pain in your heart lead you down the path, and allowing the logic of the situation to make step locks in your brain.   I hope to catch a beautiful salmon, and if it's female it will go back, as I believe there are also wise women in the ocean, and they too need a break.  Now when I think back to that Sunday, I realize how deadly adult children can be to their parent(s).  Ruthless - however, that's okay as I finally made that simple transfer from heart to brain, and am dealing with this with logic and common sense, wondering what I would tell another going through the same thing, and trying my best to follow my own advice to them.  Dianna give yourself a big hug, for being on this site and reading, and know you are supported by the many many wonderful wise women hear.  We need you too, we can be strong, but sometimes we may grow weak and so we need as many women as possible so they can get strong to be there for those who need them.  Loving and caring thoughts to you, caring and kindness, you deserve only the best.   My prayers will include I hope to hear more from you Dianna, and you have touched my heart.  Donna
Title: Re: My Troubled Daughter
Post by: Donna on May 13, 2011, 11:18:39 PM
Kennedy:

I know the tornadoes are devastating where you are, we see it on the news and my heart breaks when I see the lost, stunned looks, the pure sense of loss and confusion.  I applaud you for all that you can do to help, and yes, it is a blessing to do just a small thing, anything and what a wonderful feeling that is.  I find comfort in your words that you have been here for awhile on the site and you offer encouraging words to both Dianna and myself as we definitely need encouragement, and prayers, as do others.  It is true, we have to do what we feel at the time is right, as that is all we have to go by.   My energy and care will stretch out further now than it did before, I pray you stay safe and no tornadoes come to you.  Thank you for your words, this is a special special site, a forum of embracing love, where we can grow and learn and let go.  My thoughts and prayers are with you, thank you Kennedy.