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Quote from: Stilllearning on September 25, 2015, 05:45:16 AM
Suddenly the entire issue just fell into place and it all stopped bothering me.  What was that realization?  It was purely and simply that I no longer enjoyed my DS's company!! 

Quote from: Pooh on September 25, 2015, 07:30:30 AM

Did I really even want to be around these people?  The answer was to take out the emotional equation and think of them as strangers and ask myself, "Would you be friends with these people and go out of your way for them if you had not given birth to them?  The answer was no, I would have cut ties a long time ago.

Still and Pooh -- you have both put into words what I have been feeling.   My DS is so besotted with aloof DIL.  It really is no fun to be around them.  I miss him - but I mis the son I knew 10 years ago - not the one who is simply across the country.  I don't like the way I am treated, and I don't enjoy being around either DS or DIL. 

I wouldn't be in a relationship with them if it were not for the DNA connection.   And somehow, mere DNA is not enough.   I deserve better.   Respect, for one thing.  So it is easier and easier to let go all the time.   

Hi Still -

Good for you.  One thing I have learned from this board is that we have our own lives - and deserve to do some things we want to do now that our active "mothering" years are over.   I would not skip the eclipse, either.   

And even if she postpones having her labor induced, and you are back from your camping trip before she goes into labor, I would not spend all that driving time to get a toddler to daycare.   

I don't have grandkids, but if I did, I would consider that I was doing the AC a favor by the babysitting, and I would do it in my style.  I would follow directions on major safety matters - such as not sleeping on tummy, not feeding certain foods before the pediatrician said to, etc.  But I would not consider myself a servant who had to chauffeur a toddler to a daycare if it involved 3 hours of driving.  I agree completely with Pooh and Luise.   This is a no-brainer.   Perhaps they will learn to respect you and the fact that you have a life and other things going on in it besides having your world revolve around them. 

Enjoy the eclipse.   

DIL 30 --

I agree that you did everything right.  A small wedding is lovely and intimate.  I hate that weddings have become an industry.   The emphasis should be on the marriage, not the wedding itself.   Sounds like you have a great head on your shoulders. 

In my day, the girls did their own hair and makeup, and showed up at the church an hour ahead of time.  So I don't understand the business of making a day-long event of hair, make-up and nails.   I would be too tired to go to the wedding (let alone be in it) if I had to start getting ready 6-8 hours ahead - but that's just me, a dinosaur. 

Pooh is right about the MIL's role at wedding.  My good friend who is a MIL was not told when pictures were.  It was an accidental oversight, but she got to the church after pictures were over.   So her family got a few shots after the ceremony and before the reception.  It worked out GREAT that way, actually.   Her elderly parents would have had a very hard time coming 2 hours before the ceremony for pictures - so they got the pictures at a time that was actually more convenient for them, and they were not overly exhausted by having to come hours earlier.  She was always glad it worked out that way and she did not feel slighted at all.  The key is keeping it all in perspective.   

When I read that your MIL said your "husband is not allowed to see me or hang out with my parents."  my antennae really went up.  Your MIL is not keeping anything in perspective.  The fact that you say she has signs of dementia may explain a lot.   There is an internet forum called Out Of The Fog that deals with situations such as this.  It is helpful and constructive, as Luise's site here is.   You might get some benefit from that site.

Mods - If I am not allowed to mention the other site, I do apologize, and I'm sure you will remove my posting.    But what DIL30 is dealing with sounds like much more than a difficult MIL. 

So I have a little different twist on the holidays.   We have the aloof DIL who wants as little to do with us as possible.  Son seems happy - so it is all none of my business.  Yes, her family comes first.   We are used to that.   

We also have a daughter who is warm, friendly, has never met a stranger.   She has a heart as big as all outdoors, and is engaged to a fine young man.  He is warm and friendly - and genuinely likes us.  Either that or he deserves the next Academy Award for Best Actor.   So all is well there. 

Last year we drove to her city for Thanksgiving.   A long drive, but doable.  And Thanksgiving is such an expensive time for her to fly.   We had such a good time, DH and I agreed to do it again this year.   That was the plan - - for months.    Until last week - when I was informed that the fiancé's parents had decided to take their whole family (and our daughter) to the Caribbean for Thanksgiving - and so she won't be in town if we come visit then.   

Now the fiancé's family is just fine.   They are nothing like what Pooh or Pen have to deal with.   We have not met them yet - but by all accounts they are warm, kind, good people.   They like our daughter, and she likes them.   I am pleased about that.  I would not wish this fiancé's mother to deal with an aloof DIL such as we have.  Nor would I want our daughter to have to deal with a nasty MIL.   

Our daughter wants to be part of their family.  And being part of THEIR family and being part of OUR family are NOT mutually exclusive.   She can do both - and we will all be the better for it.  I imagine I will become friends with the other mother when we meet.  And how much healthier it is if the son is not in the middle of two women who have conflict.   

This is the ideal situation for all concerned.   I know that.  And I would not want my daughter to forego a lovely trip to the Caribbean - so DH and I have cancelled our trip to her town.  Instead we will take a long road trip (we already have the vacation time blocked off from work - have had for months) - to another part of the country we have never seen.  So we are making lemonade out of this lemon. 

This is the correct solution.  I don't want her to miss this lovely trip with her future family.   But . . . . there's just a little piece of me that feels like the kid with her nose pressed against the glass.  Comments, anyone??? 

Quote from: Stilllearning on August 26, 2015, 05:40:15 AM
Let's face it ladies, the woman who is giving birth has the right to allow or disallow whomever she pleases in either the delivery room or the hospital waiting room. 

I learn something new every day.   Thanks, Still - I find that I agree with you 90% of the time - but I have always felt that nobody but the young couple and medical team belong in delivery room - it can be a significant medical situation - not a party or family reunion.   But I did think the waiting room was public and open to all.   

I don't have grand kids - but your comments have made me re-think.   If a son and DIL were having a baby, and lived out of town, I probably would not visit for a few weeks or months.   Let them get settled - wouldn't barge in when the baby was brand new.   

If a son and DIL lived in same city, I would not go into delivery room - wouldn't even want to be asked to - but I would have felt entitled to go to waiting room, which I consider a public place.  Some labors can be 24 hours or longer - I would not want to spend that much time there before the birth - But I would have felt that I could go to waiting room any time I wanted - that I was not intruding by doing so.   

Your post has made me realize that I should cut an even wider swath around a DIL in labor - go to hospital the day after birth and see the little one then.   Of course I would not stay long - ten minutes max.  But if I ever do become a grand, I will not wait 12 hours to see a baby for ten minutes.   I will wait at home - the DIL can have whoever she wants in the waiting room - and I don't need to be there at all.   

Good perspective just in case I ever become a GM.   

I think Pooh is exactly right.   Original poster was not expecting to be in the delivery room.  Just in the waiting room at hospital - which is a public place.  I would not expect to be in delivery room with my DIL - or even my own daughter, for that matter - but I would like to be in the waiting room.  My husband was in the delivery room with me - I did not want anyone else - not my mom, not anyone.  If my daughter wants only her husband, that is fine with me.  Sure would not expect to be there.   

But the MIL should be told the DIL is in labor so she could be in the waiting room.   That's not too much to ask. 

Quote from: love3 on August 20, 2015, 05:18:01 PM
You all are so quick to complain, gang up . . . . . .   And you can stay here on this site forever complaining about your sons , dils ,   

What I see on this site are MILs who are sometimes bewildered by an adult child or DIL or SIL's behavior, who are seeking understanding.  Like me, they often don't ever understand - but they learn acceptance.  That they don't need to understand WHY.   They only need to accept that it IS.  So I do not see the complaining, ganging up MILs that you see.   I see well-intentioned MILs, sometimes hurting MILs, who soon realize they don't need to understand, only that they need to accept. 

Maybe take a look from a different perspective. 

Quote from: love3 on August 19, 2015, 06:11:17 PM
Oh my gosh . To the people saying when their son was in school blah blah blah.

If your son/daughter is UNDER the age of 18 and still in school. Yes, you get to have rules in your house. That DOES NOT mean you get to control who they want to be with and love.

If doesn't matter if your son is still at home waiting to graduate or in college . It doesn't matter that your paying for his books, tuition, own apartment, car, loans. IT DOESNT MATTER. They are over the age of 18 stop trying to control how they live their life and who they get to see. Just because your paying for their things does not mean you get to "call the shots". Their big boys by then. The only reason some mil's do this is to KEEP continuing for their sons to "NEED" them.

Just because your dil came into your sons life during high school, in college DOES NOT mean you get to treat her like poop and try to break up their relationship ,and CONTROL them as well JUST because your paying for your sons things. It does not work that way. Your dil is a human being , a person just like you. That is why you mils have problems with your dil's.  You treated them badly before so you broke that relationship for the future . Cause and effect people.

It doesn't matter what school situation your son is in that doesn't give you the right to treat your dil badly. If it was that much of a problem your son could get his own job and pay for their own things like they should have learned by the age of 18. If that wasn't possible well guess what? You still don't get to treat your dil like crap beneath your shoe!

Just had to say my piece that ALOT of others were thinking and I'm sure wanted to say. And now I'm out of here!

Pooh and I were the ones who had sons find their true loves while still in school, so thank you for the blah, blah, blah. 

Yes, we get to have rules when the son is young and in school.  No, that doesn't mean we control who they love.  Nothing Pooh or I ever posted even hinted at that, so I think you have completely misread anything Pooh or I ever posted. 

Paying for their books, tuition, etc. does give us the right to set some rules - like they have to keep their grades up if they expect us to continue to pay for all that.  Pooh's rules for having her son study, etc. was NOT to have her son still NEED her.  It was so he would get a good education and be independent and self-sufficient as I dare say 90% or more of MILs want their sons to be.   There is also no hint that either Pooh or I treated the girlfriend like poop and tried to break up their relationship and control them as well.  We did not treat them badly.  We simply wanted our sons to get their education so they could be successful adults with whatever woman they chose to spend their lives.  Yes, sons could have turned down any financial help for college, and graduated with $100,000 in debt.   

What a great way to start married life.  How much nicer that they got to start with zero student loans.   

Nothing ever posted ever so much as hinted that either of our DILs were treated like crap beneath our shoes. 

This forum is supposed to be a constructive exchange of thoughts.   Your "Blah, blah, blah" comment and accusations that either Pooh or I have treated the DILs badly, like crap beneath our shoes are unwarranted and inappropriate. 

I have read enough of Pooh's posts over the last few years to feel comfortable betting a large sum of money that she has never treated anyone like crap.   I believe apologies are due. 

Quote from: confusedbyinlaws on August 03, 2015, 01:28:44 PM

One thing I have learned from my relationship with my MIL is that as a MIL, I am a guest in my children's life and their family and not the other way around.  It is their family, their home and their way of doing things and if I get to be a part of that it is a privilege.    I don't have the right to dictate to them how to run their lives, even if I don't agree with how they do things. That doesn't mean they get to tell me how to live my life or what I should do for them either. 
When I entered into marriage with my husband, I was eager to please my inlaws.  However they viewed the situation as I was joining their family and needed to adapt to them, and so I tried.   When I didn't adapt to all the things they liked and believed, I was criticized. I wish I would have realized that the criticism should not have been taken personally, because it was about them and not me. 

Hi Confused - I agree with you- - I am a guest in my son's and DIL's life, now that he is self-supporting, etc.  My job was to raise him to be independent and self sufficient.  I have succeeded in that - and I am totally a guest in his life NOW. 

But when they were both still in school and we were supporting DS, paying all tuition, room, board, etc.,  and she joined us on a family trip, all of HER expenses paid by us as well - she was a guest in our lives.  I don't think you were directing any comment at me, but I think the situation  both Pooh and I  faced with the son finding the true love at a very early stage in life, when education not completed, when son still totally financially dependent on parents, when our parenting job is not done - is very different from a situation where the son is through with school, has a job, is not living at parents' house, is not taking $$$ from parents  In that situation, our parenting job is done, we are not paying for anything and we have no right to call the shots at all.   

I think we agree - just wanted to point out the difference in when the son is young and our parenting is not over, and when the son is out of school, on his own financially, and our parenting IS over, at which point we are nothing more than guests in his life.   

I also liked and totally agree with your comment that "they (don't) get to tell me how to live my life or what I should do for them either."

Hooray.  I am enjoying my freedom.   How about you?

Quote from: Pooh on July 22, 2015, 01:08:48 PM
  But mine started when OS was a Senior in High School and DIL was a year older and in College, so it threw a whole new dynamic in our situation.  He still had house rules, curfew, needed to get homework done, etc.  .  .  .  .  .  .  I was trying to keep him on track with finishing school and getting ready for college. 

Like Pooh,  our DIL came into our lives when DS was still in school.   Early early college.  I didn't need to be as involved as Pooh was, since he was out of high school, living away from home, etc.  But he met her when he was not even 21 years old, had over 4 years of school left, which we were paying for entirely, and our parenting was not quite done yet.   When he lived at home in the summers, he had to have a curfew, not because we were controlling him, but because we had to get up and go to work the next day, and it wasn't fair to keep us up all hours. 

So he resented some of the restrictions -- probably shared that with her.   So maybe she resented us for that.   Too bad.   Once he graduated and we were not supporting him, we had ZERO rules for him.   Fine.  He was not living with us, he could stay up all night, didn't bother us.  We weren't paying for anything. 

We included her on one family trip.  She seemed to think it was a getaway for the two of them and that we were in the way.  She didn't realize SHE was the add-on.   

I realized later that because he was still so young and we were still paying for everything, we thought of him as still part of our family, and that it was nice of us to include her in our family trip.   Maybe they thought of themselves as the primary unit.   I think they disregarded the fact they were not self-sufficient, they just wanted to be alone and decided it was us who was in the way.   Ooops!

Might things have gone better if he didn't meet her until he had worked a few years?   Maybe.  Because we are totally hands-off, non-meddling.  But it is tough if they meet their true love during that transition stage - when they are still dependent on the parents and the parents do have reasonable rules - but they think of themselves completely as adults.  (disregard that $$$$$ we shell out every year to the university, folks)   

And as long as we were paying for everything, we  got to set some rules.  They didn't like it, but too bad.   Now they are both graduated, have jobs, support themselves.  We express no opinions, give no advice, do not drop in, do not meddle in the least.   She still doesn't like us. 

Oh, well. 

Quote from: Lillycache on July 10, 2015, 09:56:41 AM
Yeah Monroe.... Karma bites like a bedbug.

Agreed.   And one benefit of my refusing to wail about being on the outside looking in, of refusing to be the one with my nose pressed against the glass - is that nobody can blame me for meddling or interfering.   I am busy with my own life, enjoying it, taking trips we couldn't when life was full of PTA and little league.  I absolutely do not interfere.  I never use the words "you" and "should" in the same sentence, in talking to either of them.  (Only DH gets that, and he's used to me nagging!  )    It has been years since I called her.  And of course she never calls me - so I give her no ammunition to complain.  If she complains anyway, maybe someday DS will see that it is without merit. 

Yay for Karma

Quote from: Lillycache on July 10, 2015, 08:40:45 AM

Quote from: Stilllearning on July 10, 2015, 08:09:47 AM
So is it wrong to hope that my DIL has a son?  I want her to understand my point of view and I do not think she ever will if she keeps producing daughters!

Not at all..... MY son and his wife have one girl and TWO boys... means two DILS for her.. hehehehehehehehe

Lilly - I think I love you!!!    As the old saying goes - what goes around comes around.   Yes, she will get hers!

Getting' Gold - The reason I have not called her out is that I see no upside.   What would I try to accomplish?   Change her?  Not likely.  Make DS mad?  Very likely.  So I just turn the other cheek and walk away.  I refuse to really interact with her when she has been so cold for so long.   I know I am on the outside looking in, but I refuse to be that kid with her nose pressed against the glass - giving off the air of desperation.  I won't go there.   I refused to beg the "cool kids" in high school to let me into their clique - now, decades later I am not going to beg anyone.  It is easier to keep my self-respect that way.   And as my husband reminds me, if we did confront DS and/or DIL, what would the upside be?  That she would see the error of her ways and become a loving warm family member?   Don't' think so.   So keep your self respect, don't call DIL out - just get busy and involved with people who love and respect you.  The less time you spend on DIL and DS, the more time you will have to spend on the new friends you make who will truly value you.   All the best.. 

I meant certainly have NOT volunteered any information. 

Quote from: Stilllearning on July 10, 2015, 08:09:47 AM
So is it wrong to hope that my DIL has a son?  I want her to understand my point of view and I do not think she ever will if she keeps producing daughters!

Certainly not!!!      My DS and DIL show no signs of planning a family after nearly a decade.  Why?  Don't know, haven't asked, would never in a million years ask, and they certainly have to volunteered any information.  So I don't need to know - but I am quite happy with no GC from them.   A number of reasons - -
1.   I would not be allowed to get to know them much.   We all know the DIL controls access to the GCs. 
2.  DS has virtually no time for us now - and would have even less for us if he had kids. 
3.  It would break my heart to have the GCs and not have a close, loving relationship with them. 

So I am quite happy not having them.   But if they did, a little boy would be nice - and the DIL would eventually become the dreaded MIL that I so obviously am.   

Quote from: gettingoldandcranky on July 10, 2015, 06:31:44 AM


Only worse thought is that maybe he DID stand up for us, and she cares so little for what even HE thinks that she STILL treats us this way.  Either way, her cold treatment of us has damaged our relationship with him. 

Which is so sad, as he was the cutest, sweetest little boy in the world.  I miss him.

Monroe - hope i quoted you correctly.  this is exactly how i feel.  after yrs of cold DIL, our DS just goes along and tells me I'm wrong when i call her out.  so i have just given up and now keep my mouth shut.  but i do, always, miss the sweet boy and adult and the love that he showed to us before DIL took over.  will never understand the why
[/quote]

Yes, you quoted me correctly.  The only difference in our situations is that my DH and I never called her out.  We have just pretended for years that everything is fine.  It is exhausting to be around either of them with that elephant in the room.   

It is a no-win situation, as you have discovered.   DIL is rude, MIL calls her out, DS gets mad at MIL.  OR . . .  DIL is rude, MIL and FIL say nothing, DS does nothing. 

Either result is unsatisfactory.  The only advantage to our approach is that DS cannot tell us we are wrong, because we have never said anything.  That is only very small satisfaction. 

It is exhausting to be around either of them - the best has been to move on with our own lives - do the things we couldn't afford to do when raising a family - I don't think things will ever change with them.   My loss.