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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: justdontunderstand on October 11, 2010, 06:59:34 PM

Title: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: justdontunderstand on October 11, 2010, 06:59:34 PM
Well, I last posted asking about how to get through the holidays. After reading all your posts, I decided to try and open the lines of communication again with DIL by letting her know our Thanksgiving plans and inviting her and son to come if they would like. I really wanted to open a dialogue about a visit. The answer I got--- "not sure what we are doing but if we do something, it will be with DIL's family".

Now keep in mind that we have not seen our new DIL in a year. Keep in mind also that our son and DIL went to her family home for both Thanksgiving and Christmas last year. Keep in mind that we issued the invitation by emphasizing that there was no pressure to come only to our home. We tried to make it clear that we would come to their home if invited or even attend her family's gathering if invited. In other words, we are completely flexible on the plans. We just wanted to be together as a family some time during the holidays. Keep in mind that son/DIL, DIL's family and we all live in different states. But we are more than willing to bear all the expense and time of travel...no quibbling about it. We are not "our way or the highway"kind of people.

As I sit here tonight, I once again just don't understand why we can't find a place in this new family. When do you just give up? Why is DIL's family given this special priority? We honestly haven't done anything unkind or unloving to explain why we are placed in this position. Every time we extend ourselves and are rejected again and again just seems to be teaching us to pull back. How do you keep trying again and again when you are met with such apparent disregard? How do explain your own son's behavior in this situation?
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: barelythere on October 11, 2010, 07:17:26 PM
Quote from: justdontunderstand on October 11, 2010, 06:59:34 PM
Well, I last posted asking about how to get through the holidays. After reading all your posts, I decided to try and open the lines of communication again with DIL by letting her know our Thanksgiving plans and inviting her and son to come if they would like. I really wanted to open a dialogue about a visit. The answer I got--- "not sure what we are doing but if we do something, it will be with DIL's family".

Now keep in mind that we have not seen our new DIL in a year. Keep in mind also that our son and DIL went to her family home for both Thanksgiving and Christmas last year. Keep in mind that we issued the invitation by emphasizing that there was no pressure to come only to our home. We tried to make it clear that we would come to their home if invited or even attend her family's gathering if invited. In other words, we are completely flexible on the plans. We just wanted to be together as a family some time during the holidays. Keep in mind that son/DIL, DIL's family and we all live in different states. But we are more than willing to bear all the expense and time of travel...no quibbling about it. We are not "our way or the highway"kind of people.

As I sit here tonight, I once again just don't understand why we can't find a place in this new family. When do you just give up? Why is DIL's family given this special priority? We honestly haven't done anything unkind or unloving to explain why we are placed in this position. Every time we extend ourselves and are rejected again and again just seems to be teaching us to pull back. How do you keep trying again and again when you are met with such apparent disregard? How do explain your own son's behavior in this situation?

It is not understandable and you do wonder why a son won't step in and intervene.  So sad but they won't most times.  I don't know JDU......it's horrible.  I wonder if time passes and firm control is finished if she will soften to allow some type of visit?  You never know.  Have you tried to send her things and write her notes and all that?  Keeping in mind that your main goal is getting in the good graces of her with the motive to see them at some point. 

I really believe boot camp is taking place, just my opinion and it's not finished.  I don't know when to let go, bless your heart!

I saw one of my son's friends at a function (stop me if I've told this story) so I asked him if he was going to be with his mom and dad at Thanksgiving and Christmas?  "No, not as long as (insert wife's name) Uncle Charles is alive.  You have to understand, Barelythere, her Uncle Charles is older and might not be here one day soon!" (honestly, you could hear his wife's voice speaking through him) 

I think training camp is complete for him and he might be getting out soon.  He's definitely coming out of the Pea Pod Invasion with a new mind.  :(   
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: justdontunderstand on October 11, 2010, 07:32:18 PM
Barelythere,
You asked if I had sent notes etc. If you only knew. I have sent notes, gifts, emails, tried to talk to her on the phone....everything you would think would be accepted as gestures of good faith and show a sincere desire to get to know someone. I rarely get a reply. She is always, "too busy" to talk on the phone...When I do get a reply it is generally a one or two word text message or email...This has been going on from day one for over six years since my son started dating her. This is no young wife--she is 30 years old. We have visited with her maybe a total of ten days in that time. Is it any wonder we don't know one another? We want to get to know her, her behavior says she doesn't have the need to know us.
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: barelythere on October 11, 2010, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: justdontunderstand on October 11, 2010, 07:32:18 PM
Barelythere,
You asked if I had sent notes etc. If you only knew. I have sent notes, gifts, emails, tried to talk to her on the phone....everything you would think would be accepted as gestures of good faith and show a sincere desire to get to know someone. I rarely get a reply. She is always, "too busy" to talk on the phone...When I do get a reply it is generally a one or two word text message or email...This has been going on from day one for over six years since my son started dating her. This is no young wife--she is 30 years old. We have visited with her maybe a total of ten days in that time. Is it any wonder we don't know one another? We want to get to know her, her behavior says she doesn't have the need to know us.

Do you see your son at all?  I'm sure you know not to say anything about all this to him!!  If she runs over you with a car, don't say a word.  But do you ever see or talk to him? 
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: LaurieS on October 11, 2010, 07:41:09 PM
Quote from: justdontunderstand on October 11, 2010, 07:32:18 PM
Barelythere,
You asked if I had sent notes etc. If you only knew. I have sent notes, gifts, emails, tried to talk to her on the phone....everything you would think would be accepted as gestures of good faith and show a sincere desire to get to know someone. I rarely get a reply. She is always, "too busy" to talk on the phone...When I do get a reply it is generally a one or two word text message or email...This has been going on from day one for over six years since my son started dating her. This is no young wife--she is 30 years old. We have visited with her maybe a total of ten days in that time. Is it any wonder we don't know one another? We want to get to know her, her behavior says she doesn't have the need to know us.

Doesn't it make you wonder what your child ever saw in someone as self-centered as this?  Yes I said it, she sounds like a very selfish self-centered person who happens to be a DIL.  At 30 years old, this is not behavior that she will outgrow and she's made her point clear as can be.

You spoke about the little bit of time you've spend directly with her, but what about your son are you able to spend any quality time with him?  I know you want to see them as a couple but if she is one of "those" dil's and this has been going on for 6 years, our advice probably left you feeling more frustrated then ever.
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: barelythere on October 11, 2010, 07:52:16 PM
Quote from: Laurie on October 11, 2010, 07:45:32 PM
I don't know BT... I think I would speak with the son... My issue with my DIL is that she always feels the need to have her family present every time we plan on visiting with the kids... I have spoken directly with my son... he's not approaching the problem in the manner I hoped he would but he is aware that there is a problem and now  understands fully when we make the decisions that we make concerning visits.  Communication needs to be honest in order to work.

Laurie, you may be right but for me, it's dangerous.  My thoughts to him are not kept between us and she takes it out on us.  She has been particularly cruel when she's crossed.  We have no one to one communication with our son at all.  When we speak, it's always with her there so she can hear.  She might bless it or she might not.  All is well between us right now so I'm happy. 
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: LaurieS on October 11, 2010, 08:02:51 PM
It would be hard if you are not allowed any one on one communication, and if he in turn repeats anything you say, then there has been a huge breach in your trust of him.  Why would any man accept this type of domination?  I'm not talking about your son BT, but there are many men out there who either sit back or have no ability to have any input in their own lives.  I'm sure some psychiatrist out there will say that these men had dominating mothers.. but I doubt that is often the case.  I know my own son is very non-confrontational for the most part and can let a lot roll off his back..but that isn't even a good reason not to take a more active part in your own life.
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: barelythere on October 11, 2010, 08:13:41 PM
Quote from: Laurie on October 11, 2010, 08:02:51 PM
It would be hard if you are not allowed any one on one communication, and if he in turn repeats anything you say, then there has been a huge breach in your trust of him.  Why would any man accept this type of domination?  I'm not talking about your son BT, but there are many men out there who either sit back or have no ability to have any input in their own lives.  I'm sure some psychiatrist out there will say that these men had dominating mothers.. but I doubt that is often the case.  I know my own son is very non-confrontational for the most part and can let a lot roll off his back..but that isn't even a good reason not to take a more active part in your own life.

I think my son, though successful and handsome, is down deep afraid.  I don't know why. He lets her run the show.  She does and he's happy with that.  At first he was not like that at all.  He called us and visited a lot but something changed and all has to go through her to get to him now.  Her friends are the same way.  They are in the group with her and they know she's the boss.  She drops those who don't play right.  It's okay...I lived through it.  I'm almost on the other side.  It takes a long time.
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: luise.volta on October 11, 2010, 09:08:48 PM
There's food for thought in the fear concept. I bet you're right. Sending love...
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: Pen on October 11, 2010, 10:58:30 PM
Quote from: justdontunderstand on October 11, 2010, 06:59:34 PM

...As I sit here tonight, I once again just don't understand why we can't find a place in this new family. When do you just give up? Why is DIL's family given this special priority? We honestly haven't done anything unkind or unloving to explain why we are placed in this position. Every time we extend ourselves and are rejected again and again just seems to be teaching us to pull back. How do you keep trying again and again when you are met with such apparent disregard? How do explain your own son's behavior in this situation?

Great questions, JDU. Your situation seems very similar to mine. Never ones to hover or smother, we too kept pulling back after repeatedly getting rejected and were conscious of our every word and deed. We totally lucked out - DH & I were ready to give up when things turned around a bit for some reason. Counseling? DS standing up for himself and for us? Don't know for sure, but from there we had some tentative visits and now we're feeling a bit more secure, although we still are treading lightly.

My feeling is that DS was blinded by love and the materialistic things DIL's FOO could provide. Who wouldn't want to hang out at their house? Also, as a newlywed with not a lot of relationship experience, he wanted to please his very family-oriented bride. He was secure in our love for him but had to ingratiate himself with his ILs.

JDU, it's a difficult thing. {{{hugs}}}
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: Nana on October 12, 2010, 01:09:03 AM
Justdontunderstand

I also think that she is making her point very clear.  I think that you do not need more of this from dil/son or anyone else .  I would defenitely distanced myself  but after speaking to my son and asking him why cant you be included in their plans for holidays ever.  If he doesnt stand for you, at least have him give you answers.   The truth is sometimes cruel and tough.....but we sometimes need the truth to move on (even if we move on with a broken heart)..  Dont ever humiliate yourself to them.     You are good people, they defenitely dont deserve you ugh...I feel so angry.    It would be a priviledge having you in their lives.... who they think they are? 

Cheer up.... you did the right thing......but not anymore....please dont...   let them buy a punching bag.

Love you


A big warm hug
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: barelythere on October 12, 2010, 05:59:28 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: barelythere on October 12, 2010, 06:01:20 AM
Quote from: barelythere on October 12, 2010, 05:59:28 AM
:)
Pen, I had something all written out about how glad I was that your son is including you again and all that popped up was a smiley face.  "Computers, the bane of mankind"
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: cremebrulee on October 12, 2010, 06:21:22 AM
Quote from: justdontunderstand on October 11, 2010, 06:59:34 PM
Well, I last posted asking about how to get through the holidays. After reading all your posts, I decided to try and open the lines of communication again with DIL by letting her know our Thanksgiving plans and inviting her and son to come if they would like. I really wanted to open a dialogue about a visit. The answer I got--- "not sure what we are doing but if we do something, it will be with DIL's family".

Now keep in mind that we have not seen our new DIL in a year. Keep in mind also that our son and DIL went to her family home for both Thanksgiving and Christmas last year. Keep in mind that we issued the invitation by emphasizing that there was no pressure to come only to our home. We tried to make it clear that we would come to their home if invited or even attend her family's gathering if invited. In other words, we are completely flexible on the plans. We just wanted to be together as a family some time during the holidays. Keep in mind that son/DIL, DIL's family and we all live in different states. But we are more than willing to bear all the expense and time of travel...no quibbling about it. We are not "our way or the highway"kind of people.

As I sit here tonight, I once again just don't understand why we can't find a place in this new family. When do you just give up? Why is DIL's family given this special priority? We honestly haven't done anything unkind or unloving to explain why we are placed in this position. Every time we extend ourselves and are rejected again and again just seems to be teaching us to pull back. How do you keep trying again and again when you are met with such apparent disregard? How do explain your own son's behavior in this situation?

I'm very sorry your experiencing this pain....it feels never ending and changes your life forever, believe me, it's terrible and awful....an example of your question and her answer?

I wish your son would interject....and you could share the holidays....

I wish you could explain your son's behavior, have you ever tried to ask him why and tell him this is hurting you awful...I would ask him, "What can I do to change this, that your very sorry this is happening?"

You should be asking your son these questions and not fear the answers....however, your going to have to deal with his answers no matter how hurtful they are....or seem.....can you do that?

But actually, you should be asking both of them, these questions....

if they won't answer, then sorry as I am to say, the cold hard facts of this is, that your going to have to make plans without them for awhile.  And hope and pray they both come to they're senses....

you said in one of your posts that she is completely mean when she is crossed...so what do you think or does she think you did to cross her?  What was so terrible that she feels like she needs to exclude you from family....(and believe me, unless a person is abusive or on substance abuse, I don't believe anyone should be estranged...)  but apparently she thinks you did something to hurt her?

Also, I wouldn't ever give up hope that it changes....never...what I would do, is try to change myself....my own attitude, and let them go, at this point the only choice you have, sorry to say, is to change your own attitude and learn how to deal with this...and believe me, I know about rejection, as all of us do....it hurts something awful.....

I'm sending hugs...
Creme
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: barelythere on October 12, 2010, 06:31:49 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on October 12, 2010, 06:21:22 AM
Quote from: justdontunderstand on October 11, 2010, 06:59:34 PM
Well, I last posted asking about how to get through the holidays. After reading all your posts, I decided to try and open the lines of communication again with DIL by letting her know our Thanksgiving plans and inviting her and son to come if they would like. I really wanted to open a dialogue about a visit. The answer I got--- "not sure what we are doing but if we do something, it will be with DIL's family".

Now keep in mind that we have not seen our new DIL in a year. Keep in mind also that our son and DIL went to her family home for both Thanksgiving and Christmas last year. Keep in mind that we issued the invitation by emphasizing that there was no pressure to come only to our home. We tried to make it clear that we would come to their home if invited or even attend her family's gathering if invited. In other words, we are completely flexible on the plans. We just wanted to be together as a family some time during the holidays. Keep in mind that son/DIL, DIL's family and we all live in different states. But we are more than willing to bear all the expense and time of travel...no quibbling about it. We are not "our way or the highway"kind of people.

As I sit here tonight, I once again just don't understand why we can't find a place in this new family. When do you just give up? Why is DIL's family given this special priority? We honestly haven't done anything unkind or unloving to explain why we are placed in this position. Every time we extend ourselves and are rejected again and again just seems to be teaching us to pull back. How do you keep trying again and again when you are met with such apparent disregard? How do explain your own son's behavior in this situation?

I'm very sorry your experiencing this pain....it feels never ending and changes your life forever, believe me, it's terrible and awful....

I wish your son would interject....and you could share the holidays....

I wish you could explain your son's behavior, have you ever tried to ask him why and tell him this is hurting you awful...I would ask him, "What can I do to change this, that your very sorry this is happening?"

You should be asking your son these questions and not fear the answers....however, your going to have to deal with his answers no matter how hurtful they are....or seem.....can you do that?

But actually, you should be asking both of them, these questions....

if they won't answer, then sorry as I am to say, the cold hard facts of this is, that your going to have to make plans without them for awhile.  And hope and pray they both come to they're senses....

you said in one of your posts that she is completely mean when she is crossed...so what do you think or does she think you did to cross her?  What was so terrible that she feels like she needs to exclude you from family....(and believe me, unless a person is abusive or on substance abuse, I don't believe anyone should be estranged...)  but apparently she thinks you did something to hurt her?

Also, I wouldn't ever give up hope that it changes....never...what I would do, is try to change myself....my own attitude, and let them go, at this point the only choice you have, sorry to say, is to change your own attitude and learn how to deal with this...and believe me, I know about rejection, as all of us do....it hurts something awful.....

I'm sending hugs...
Creme

Dear JDU,
First of all, thank you, Creme or your sage advice to her. I'm sure she's finding this hard to navigate.

JDU, unless you told her to "shove it" or "looked at her like you wished she was dead" or "said anything to her to offend her", she has no right to treat the Mother of her Husband this way.  She owes you respect.  It's common courtesy.  You are owed that. 
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: justdontunderstand on October 12, 2010, 07:40:04 AM
Thank you one and all for your quick responses and support. It is much appreciated.

Some of you wondered about the relationship we have with our son. He has visited  alone three times in the past year. Two visits went well, the other not so well. The two that went well there was no mention of DIL. In the other, I tried to speak with him gently about the hurt we felt at the lack of a relationship with DIL. I did not speak ill of her or accuse her. He said there was nothing he could do about it and  that we needed to speak with her directly. I asked him how could we do that when we have never had a real conversation with her in six years. Literally, she will answer a direct question with a one or two sentence answer but that is all. We have tried to find common ground--ask about her interests etc. but nothing works. She seems angry or bored or something when around us. I simply don't know how to read her nor does anyone in our family who has met her. Our son just seems to want to avoid the whole problem. In the past, he would always talk out any problems with us and we could work through them. Now it is as if the pod people have taken him over.
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: cremebrulee on October 12, 2010, 07:56:28 AM
Quote from: justdontunderstand on October 12, 2010, 07:40:04 AM
Thank you one and all for your quick responses and support. It is much appreciated.

Some of you wondered about the relationship we have with our son. He has visited  alone three times in the past year. Two visits went well, the other not so well. The two that went well there was no mention of DIL. In the other, I tried to speak with him gently about the hurt we felt at the lack of a relationship with DIL. I did not speak ill of her or accuse her. He said there was nothing he could do about it and  that we needed to speak with her directly. I asked him how could we do that when we have never had a real conversation with her in six years. Literally, she will answer a direct question with a one or two sentence answer but that is all. We have tried to find common ground--ask about her interests etc. but nothing works. She seems angry or bored or something when around us. I simply don't know how to read her nor does anyone in our family who has met her. Our son just seems to want to avoid the whole problem. In the past, he would always talk out any problems with us and we could work through them. Now it is as if the pod people have taken him over.

can you give me an example of your DIL's one or two word answers....a for instance....? 

also, your son is just as responsible for this as she is...no one changes anyone, unless they approve the change....and apparentely, your son is taking the easy way out at all costs...namely yours. 
I believe, and I'm just guessing here, if he discusses this with you she gets very angry...and by the way, it sounds as if you did very well....but he felt like you were backing him in a corner...

perhaps I can give you some insight thru my experience....

I was not nearly as perceptive as you at the time, and I wasn't able to discuss this with my son, without getting really upset....why?  Well, when I explained one situation that happened with my DIL, he said, "wull, mom, she isn't like that, this is why she acted the way she did"....and I took it as if he was not only siding with her, but also, as if he was saying, I was lying about the way I perceived the situation, and my first reaction was extremely hurt, then extreme anger....and we really fought, more so then any other time in our lives, and here's the kicker....he got the same from his wife....she thought he was siding with me, and saying she was lying, when what he was trying to do as mediator, was to tell us both, we were both perceiving the situation wrong, and both taking it as a personal attack and hate reaction on our part, in other words, I thought she hated me, and was doing everything she could to reject me and drive a wedge between us, and she thought the very same thing of me, and we were both shocked when after 12 years of back and forth, we both realized that it was not that way...in other words, both of us were ready to listen, and for both of us, the light bulb went on and we were both able to accept and see that we were hurting each other but it was not intended.

I'm not saying your situation is the same....however, we women can be vile when we want our way.....and when something is done that we don't like we take it as a personal attack against us and like the other person is saying, "Your no good!"

However, your DIL sounds as if she wants her way period....she's used to spending time with her family, that is her only comfort zone, and she is not willing to branch out and give her husband a chance with his parents....and share holidays...that would be the mature thing to do...the lovig thing to do.....

I don't know what to tell you, except, darlin, your going to have to for now, make plans and exlude them....it's really up to your son to tell her, how much this is hurting everyone involved, meaning, you and him....she is not thinking how she is affecting the lives of others in a very negative and hurtful way....compromise can be worked out....however, both have to be willing to do so...and she, at this time is not....

I'm very sorry I don't have a more positive solution for you...but given time, maybe she will change, but for now, I would back off, and let them live they're lives and all I can do is wish so much that I could approach your son and say..."Shame on you!"  How dare you treat your parents like that....and I would, believe me...the older I'm getting the more outspoken I'm becoming and I can't stand drama that hurts others...

I would make splendid plans if you can with hubby....go somewhere for a Christmas Vacation, and carry on without them for a while, and the next time your son visits, and speaks to you about this situation, let him know how much this is hurting you....your not being unreasonable, and when you tell him, he may leave in a huff and not come back for awhile, but what other choice do you have at this point? 

I'm so so sorry....
Creme
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: justdontunderstand on October 12, 2010, 08:14:22 AM
Creme,
I really hear your concern and kindness in your posts. Again, thank you so much for your thoughts. I feel you are right--some of the responsibility for this debacle rests with our son. He is in a very high pressure job and has been for some years and that explains some of his reaction, I think. He is spread pretty thin. I have compassion for that part of the issue.

He tells me that DIL doesn't have a good emotional "intelligence" as a way of explaining her behavior. (It in turn makes me wonder why he was attracted to her in the first place and how he broke through this barrier).

Here is an example of an exchange with her:

Me:  "So, do you like your new job?.  Her: "Yes". Me: "Do you like your coworkers?"  Her: "Yes"   Me:  "What do you do exactly?"  Her: "It is a bit complicated  to explain".  Me:  "Oh........."

What I felt like saying but didn't was " Why don't you try and explain it. I bet I can follow it." But instead I just give up because it is like pulling teeth instead of having a conversation. Please note that I have observed her (at their wedding) talking an laughing with friends in a relaxed way.
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: LaurieS on October 12, 2010, 08:30:48 AM
Quote from: justdontunderstand on October 12, 2010, 07:40:04 AM
Our son just seems to want to avoid the whole problem. In the past, he would always talk out any problems with us and we could work through them.

His avoidance of the problem is not surprising. 

My own son tried the deer in the headlights look of surprise when we spoke directly with him concerning our family issues.   If your son is a more non-confrontational type person like my own then one line of defense is avoiding, dismissing, or simply living  life with their heads in the sand.  When I forced the issue (nicely but persistently) then I was met with resistance and anger...  he wasn't angry about what I was saying, he was angry that he had to recognize that there were some issues and that he had to open his eyes and see them...and I think he was concerned that he was going to have to put forth some effort to try and rectify the problems.  That is my take on my son... yours may or may not have some of these same tendencies.

Do you think you would be ignored or ridiculed by the extended family if you simply sent holiday invitations to your ds/dil and her family as well.  Maybe not for a close holiday where plans have already been made, but possibly New Years may work.

I'm in the same boat with you as I feel as if our family has lost it's reason to exist in my DIL's eyes, if this is not the case she has certainly shown us no reason not to feel this way.  You'll find a way... Laurie   
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: justdontunderstand on October 12, 2010, 08:40:46 AM
Laurie,
Thanks for your reply. I think my son is in some kind of "denial" or at best avoidance of the issue. I feel that we are really the only ones suffering here on nearly a daily basis as we struggle to live in this new reality.

I thought about including DIL's family in an invitation but from what I know (only met them twice), they have a large extended family they participate with every year for the holidays. Their traditions are in part cultural. Besides, I get the distinct feeling that DIL has "lobbied" against us to at least her mother because my attempts at communicating with them since the wedding have gone unanswered.

I sent food gifts last holiday season that did not evidently even warrant a "thank you".  All very sad and so unnecessary.
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: cremebrulee on October 12, 2010, 08:56:07 AM
Quote from: justdontunderstand on October 12, 2010, 08:14:22 AM
Creme,
I really hear your concern and kindness in your posts. Again, thank you so much for your thoughts. I feel you are right--some of the responsibility for this debacle rests with our son. He is in a very high pressure job and has been for some years and that explains some of his reaction, I think. He is spread pretty thin. I have compassion for that part of the issue.

He tells me that DIL doesn't have a good emotional "intelligence" as a way of explaining her behavior. (It in turn makes me wonder why he was attracted to her in the first place and how he broke through this barrier).

Here is an example of an exchange with her:

Me:  "So, do you like your new job?.  Her: "Yes". Me: "Do you like your coworkers?"  Her: "Yes"   Me:  "What do you do exactly?"  Her: "It is a bit complicated  to explain".  Me:  "Oh........."

What I felt like saying but didn't was " Why don't you try and explain it. I bet I can follow it." But instead I just give up because it is like pulling teeth instead of having a conversation. Please note that I have observed her (at their wedding) talking an laughing with friends in a relaxed way.

could you perhaps try to ask her advice on something?  Like, well, I've been trying so hard to make so and so, but I can't get it right, how do you do it?

Or I'm going to this formal dinner, and I'm wearing this and this, what type of shoes do you think I should get to go with it, I want to appear to be trendy, but not overdo it for a woman of my age, what do you think?

Or, hey, DIL, I'm thinking about getting my hair done, what do you think....

maybe more personal questions would help, and find out from son, who DIL is....yanno, I spent so many years, believing that DIL was an awful person, that I so missed out on knowing who she really was....I could only see her bad points, as we all own, and refused to acknowledge that she had any ounce of good in her....now, I'm realizing, she has tons of good in her, more so then bad....so, find out who she is, and what she likes....even if you have to ask son....but learn things about her....so you can communicate with her, it might seem more sincere to her, communicate with her but don't pry into her personal life, and by all means, not that you would, but never ever discuss any one else with her, b/c she'll be afraid you will be talking about her when she is not around....and I know you don't, just put that in there as a heads up....really.

Keep trying...Laurie also made some good points...keep trying, don't give up, no matter how ridiculous it may seem, keep trying, and if she rewards you, by smiling or talking, then you know you've done something right and she isn't a total robot....LOL and, she simply may have no respect for adults....but maybe she has no respect for herself, and that is why she is being so rude? 

hugs
Creme
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: Pen on October 12, 2010, 09:16:43 AM
JDU, our DIL's FOO has behaved similarly. I'm sorry you're going through this. It's difficult to be treated like this, and as you've said it's so unnecessary.

We've totally backed off and are letting DIL's FOO make the first move. We express concern when DIL tells us news of their health issues or whatever, and now they do the same for us which is very, very big. It's a painfully slow process.

We'd decided not to give them any holiday gifts/cards since DIL wasn't too keen on accepting ours to her; we thought her FOO would feel the same. Last year DIL was more gracious about accepting (although not so great at giving) so we're reassessing for this year - haven't decided yet. Perhaps we'll start with a card and see how it goes?

I keep saying it's like we have cooties (can you tell I've spent a lot of time in middle school?) The so-called cool kids don't want to accept things from the needy nerds. Oh, the holidays...thanks a lot, Norman Rockwell! LOL

Creme, you've got some great ideas. Pehaps they'll encourage JDU's DIL to come out of her shell. (My DIL might have used those requests for fashion advice or cooking help as another opportunity to mock my clothes budget, poor cooking skills and my age, however, but that's just her.) And the advice about not ever talking about others is priceless! We're toast if our DILs/DSs ever suspect us of doing the same regarding them. (Of course the same rules don't necessarily apply to them, unfortunately.)
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: pam1 on October 12, 2010, 09:22:56 AM
JDU, my parents couldn't written your posts.  We haven't spent ONE holiday with them, not one.  And that is changing, trust me.

I think it was a case of a really bad combination of timing and avoidance/denial (on my part.)  I am taking responsibility and trying to fix this and get back to my family of origin to let them know they are important to me. 

A lot of it was that it was just so HARD with DH's family.  So dang hard.  Any time there was a slight change in tradition to ANY holiday (I'm even talking the valentines/st pattys day type holidays too) MIL would flip out.  So this was made crystal clear to me early on, not by my DH and in fact, my DH was very evasive with just how invested his FOO was about holidays.  He never clearly told me what they expected and how they acted, I only picked up by observing.  In therapy, it was brought out just how unusual his family was concerning the holidays and how DH just didn't know and then of course, he wanted to avoid the subject too.

Anyway, the first year with DH's family I saw one family member get torn to shreds over not participating in their complicated traditional holiday schedules.  They were ostracized, gossiped about viciously, drama drama drama.  I really didn't pay much attention and as I was first getting to know them, I figured it was an old family feud.  But then stuff kept happening and I think subconsciously I sorta feared their reaction by doing something different and just ducked my head and went with it.   

And then here we are, my FOO hasn't spent a holiday with us.  It's been a lot of work, I've talked about it a little on other threads.  We have so many issues with the in laws that have affected our marriage in other ways, that we've spent the vast majority of our time trying to work those out and keep our marriage strong and that put the holiday issue on the back burner for awhile.  We finally felt strong enough this year to tackle the holiday problem and so far, we are doing ok. 

Is it fair to my family?  Heck NO!  I know that, my DH knows that (now lol.)  But we also had to save our marriage first, that was the priority. 

It could be that right now and from what it sounds like your DIL is like, your DS is having to do the same as me, face things as they come and change things as he can.  The thing is, and we know from our counselor too, if when all this started dawning on me if I stood up and said "DH, that's it.  A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H and so on changes RIGHT THIS INSTANT!".......well, we'd be divorced.  From the outside looking in, I'd bet my last dollar that your DS has got so many fish in the pan right now that he CAN'T face the holiday issue. 

My parents have handled this pretty well, I'd say.   They've made an occasional comment here and there but I think if they kept up the pressure, it would be even that much harder on me.  As it is, I can't go running to them to lay it all out to them what has been happening in my marriage and explain to them, that would be a huge no-no and a betrayal of my husband.   So here it is, I'm sure your DS is in much of the same place I am....and from what I can tell, countless others.  (I've been reading around lately about the holiday issues) and I really can't get into that mindset some people have where they "own" holidays like your DIL's family behaves and my inlaws behave.  If you want some insight, google some and see how people react to this subject.  A lot of people just get really heated, even over the internet!  And then imagine your DS living with that, day in and day out.  It is not easy.
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: cremebrulee on October 12, 2010, 09:44:02 AM
yanno what, they're always going to talk about the one who isn't there...my own sister does that....when my younger sister and I get together, we decided together, she's goig to talk about whoever isn't there...she never travels or goes anywhere, and that's her fault, and yet, faults everyone else who does for it cuz she's jealous....and I won't let her do it anymore....she called me once and said, "Well, younger sister isn't coming"  and I said...."So what!"  and said, sis, life is getting way to short for us, to live up to the expectations of others....they aren't coming b/c they want to spend some time with his mother....and that's ok....they will be with us on Easter and Thanksgiving, and that's enough, but his mother deserves time with them to....and since she is not invited to come out here to stay with one of us, they must go there....period. 

Yanno, I cannot believe people actually give up they're own traditions and happiness to please others for so long like this, God bless you and your family....your family must be really hurt...there has to be sharing and consideration for others, or else have both extended families come together for the dinner...
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: Nanci49 on October 12, 2010, 09:55:42 AM
Thanks for the replies -

ALL I can say right now is God Bless her because she will live to regret how she has forever treated me since she was 14 years old!
I just can't be emotionally and verbally abused anymore and thats why " I GUESS " i started shootin' back myself with my mouth - something i've not done before!
Good Bless her!
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: Barbie on October 12, 2010, 06:09:55 PM
JDU, my DIL acts the same way, she gives me yes and no answers, last time we saw them she actually gave us a full explanation on something and when she realized she was talking to us she totally freaked out and stopped talking. I really don't know what else to say but to just try to stay strong and in time things may change, they have for us, a little bit.
Hugs.
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: cremebrulee on October 13, 2010, 06:17:53 AM
Quote from: guest1 on October 12, 2010, 06:09:55 PM
JDU, my DIL acts the same way, she gives me yes and no answers, last time we saw them she actually gave us a full explanation on something and when she realized she was talking to us she totally freaked out and stopped talking. I really don't know what else to say but to just try to stay strong and in time things may change, they have for us, a little bit.
Hugs.

When she did that, you should have called her on it, and said..."why did you stop talking, you had my full attention, that was very interesting"....she may be doing it, b/c she is so insecure, she feels that you would probably never be interested in what she has to say....that's when you reassure her....hey, I was interested, lets continue...this is something I'm learning"....that will give her confidence, and let her know, it's ok for her to be herself with you....
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: Barbie on October 14, 2010, 04:37:27 PM
Yes, Creme, I realize one of us should have called her on it, DH and I just don't know how to act around her, we're so afraid to rock the boat, things have improved somewhat, we get to see our GD about once a month and we don't want to do anything to jeoperdize what we do have. DS told me, not too long ago that DIL wanted nothing to do with us but she still allows us to visit every now and then and lets DS and GD come to visit us.
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: Annie123 on October 14, 2010, 05:25:17 PM
Quote from: guest1 on October 14, 2010, 04:37:27 PM
Yes, Creme, I realize one of us should have called her on it, DH and I just don't know how to act around her, we're so afraid to rock the boat, things have improved somewhat, we get to see our GD about once a month and we don't want to do anything to jeoperdize what we do have. DS told me, not too long ago that DIL wanted nothing to do with us but she still allows us to visit every now and then and lets DS and GD come to visit us.
I sure hope things get better for you. It must feel awful to have to worry about every thing you say or do. Just because of fear that your DIL " Will not allow" your DS and GC to visit.. How sad.. sending you hugs!
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: cremebrulee on October 20, 2010, 05:41:38 AM
[quote Annie123
I sure hope things get better for you. It must feel awful to have to worry about every thing you say or do. Just because of fear that your DIL " Will not allow" your DS and GC to visit.. How sad.. sending you hugs!
[/quote]

What a horrible thing to do to someone?  I sure hope they get better to....


Guest,
If it were me, I couldn't keep my mouth shut...this is abuse...I'm sorry, but it is....
Title: Re: Trying Again...Failing Again!
Post by: barelythere on October 20, 2010, 06:48:11 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on October 20, 2010, 05:41:38 AM
[quote Annie123
I sure hope things get better for you. It must feel awful to have to worry about every thing you say or do. Just because of fear that your DIL " Will not allow" your DS and GC to visit.. How sad.. sending you hugs!

What a horrible thing to do to someone?  I sure hope they get better to....


Guest,
If it were me, I couldn't keep my mouth shut...this is abuse...I'm sorry, but it is....
[/quote]

There's the delima, isn't it?  If she doesn't keep her mouth shut regarding her DILs behavior, she's out.  That's the punishment for "not keeping our mouths shut".