Each Thanksgiving we have to go to my son's house for the day...he complains he has children that do not like to have to be somewhere other than their home for the holiday...so we are all instructed to cook food and bring it. For years I made the turkey and my daughter brought the desserts and drinks. My son and his wife make the side dishes.
This year I asked if we could change the order of things...my son told me he doubts his wife knows how to cook a turkey and besides they do not have a roasting pan....I offered to show my daughter in law how to roast a turkey and offered to have her borrow the pan to roast it. No response except we are doing as usual what we always do. My daughter said that my daughter in law chooses not to cook not that she can't - she just won't. Then to make matters worse my daughter said I should not have said anything not to "start" anything ---- just leave things alone and go with the status quo. Well, Christmas, I have always had them at my house for a full course Italian meal. Honestly, I am getting sick and tired of always doing the cooking. I asked my daughter what would all of you do if I decided that I just won't cook anymore? and why is it that everyone can say they won't cook - it's perfectly acceptable... but If I say something about anything...I am labeled a mother in law - I really don't meddle in anything but I am getting sick and tired of cooking when no one offers to do it for me. Any suggestions about this issue and how to handle it differently? This year I am out of work since January, Christmas is going to be hard on me with gift giving but I am still doing it...I think this is all my fault as I have done it for so long they feel they are entitled to it - if I "butch" about it...they say I am creating trouble...Please give me some feedback. Thanks.
Hey Gal-
I wouldn't have asked, I would have just said, "I'm not cooking this year so other plans need to be made." But that's my family. It really depends on how alpha you want to be.
If you don't want to cook but can afford it, you could just tell them that if you're bringing the turkey, it'll be one that you picked up at the grocery store, pre-made or some frozen turkey thing from Costco. Or just show up with it. Or you could just re-iterate - I'm Not Bringing the Turkey and show up with a bowl of green beans or a can of cranberry sauce. Or you could tell them that you're vegan now and can't stand the idea of touching a dead bird!
Let them make a big deal of it if they must and just keep your sense of humor about the whole thing.
Hey Gal,
Let's see, the kids can't (?) adapt to anyone else's house and the daughter in law doesn't have a roasting pan........lame excuses, sad to hear and sad for you to be expected to do the work and pick up the tab.
What do *******YOU WANT ****** to do this year? I would decide and DO IT.
You'll get static because these people are used to getting what they want.......even if it's not what you want. You might be creating trouble because their convenient routine of having you cater to them is getting shook up. You gotta change the pattern and put up with the static or be cooking turkeys for them forever. They'll whine and complain and try the blame shifting game that you are a trouble maker.
It's always such a sad state of affairs when the people that you used to love to cater to forget that you are not a free caterer, but if you want to change the output, you'll have to change the input. You can always announce that the turkey is in your house this year, and if they want to eat it, they'll have to come and get it. It might be the start of some hostility but it doesn't sound like they are treating you with any appreciation, and when they complain offer this explanation, over and over again "You can't please all of the people all of the time".....big smile.
Either I "do it all" or there is no holiday celebration. It was that way with my husband's family (I held Christmas for several years for everyone - over 30 people with very little help). When I stopped, so did the "celebration". No one ever reciprocated. I would not be surprised if this would be "a repeat" with our own children (although I suspect one daughter-in-law would step in at first). In my opinion, the younger people of today just don't have the same dedication to sharing holidays; in fact, many of our daughter-in-laws would be relieved not to have to "bother with us" (and sometimes, I think sons, too).
Actually, I would have been thrilled to have my entire family together on any holiday (and there is only 11 of us - including my husband and me) - even if I had to do all of the work. Most times, only half of my immediate family shows up and I cry again. Lately, we have been celebrating in a local restaurant as more of our family tends to come (we pay the entire bill). Sometimes I wonder why I try. It's not fair, but GalfromBrooklyn - I envy you. At least your family does attend functions. They don't share the work but at least they come. Mine don't do either. Maybe there is no such thing as a "Happy Thanksgiving" ....
I don't get it, your DIL doesn't "want" to cook and she's an ogre. Yet, you don't "want" to cook either. So what's the difference?
I think you need a different approach - talk to your kids and say that you understand that NO ONE wants to cook and that's okay (because it is), so what solution are they offering? Do they want to take turns with the bird? Do they want to split the cost of a store-bought turkey dinner? Do they want to just have a bunch of hors-d'oeuvres? Or pizza & wings? Because, really, it's not about the food, it's about getting together with family.
If you put it like that, what can they say?
I think though, that you really, really need to put a lid on the old "I've done it every year for XX years" spiel. I know for me, it would make me angry, because here I thought you were doing it because you WANTED to. It would actually de-value previous Thanksgivings in my memory. So you put that in the past and you move forward with the words "that doesn't work for me anymore" firmly (and kindly) on your lips.
Welcome Gal and it is at this point that I normally would ask you to go read the Forum Agreement and How this Happened under Open me first. But this morning, we have a glitch and the Forum Agreement has disappeared. So I will ask that you monitor, and I will let you know when we get it worked out so you can go read it. Thanks!
I agree with everyone's advice. It is sad that they don't recognize that you are having a rough financial time and didn't step up on their own. I will say, my Mother does the big stuff every year on Thanksgiving, because she wants to, and I go help her early in the morning and bring desserts. It's always been that way. Now, if I knew she was struggling financially, I would immediately call her and ask her if I could do it all this year...but that's just me. If she called me and said that she was tired of doing it all and would I help her do it differently...not a problem there either because I am grateful for all the years she has done the majority of the work...again...just me. That's the real issue here. You have a DS that doesn't have that attitude. And yes, I'm saying your DS because even if DIL doesn't want to cook, he has the ability to do it, buy it or make other arrangements just as much as she does.
So I agree with the others here, simply decide what you are willing to do or not do and stick with it. Your DD is right, it will probably start something. You may get a "Well, then we are not doing Thanksgiving then" from DS if they don't want to do it. Just be prepared for that and have a back-up plan.
I will say that I would be more than happy to do the majority of the work if it meant my family was getting together. But, I would probably draw the line at if they wanted me to do it at their house and do the majority of the work. I don't mind doing all the work, but I want to be in my kitchen with what I am familiar with to do it. So I would have told my DS that I didn't mind doing the major stuff, but if they wanted me to do it, they needed to come to my house. I wouldn't mind coming to their house if they wanted that, but then I needed to be given the stuff that was more portable and easy to bring and they needed to do the bird.
To me, your situation is different with the financial aspect and if you can't afford it, well then you can't. If they can't understand that, then there is nothing you can do to make them understand.
Good Morning and Welcome GalfromBrooklyn. I am not married yet, but I do have a wonderful FDH that I have been with for 3 years now. I agree with the others that perhaps you did not initially go about this situation the way I would have, at least if I wanted to 'get my way'. Something that you mentioned did hit home with me though and I thought I would comment on it. You stated that every year you do a big Italian holiday dinner – well my family is Italian and we always do a big extravaganza of food as well so I understand the degree of 'work' that goes along with the joy of the celebration. My thought is (and I apologize if this rambles, I swear I have a point): being Italian, I would say that one of the backbones of the culture is cooking – it is something that as a family growing up everyone was involved in preparing dinner, even if it was little sister making the salad, everyone had a part. It was also a great way for our parents to teach us about our culture, heritage and how to be able to cook for ourselves. My thought is then, perhaps instead of treating it as work, treat it as something fun for everyone. Maybe DS and DIL are a bit stressed being newer parents, so then asked if you can bring the kids into the mix and have them help you, perhaps it will make the process more enjoyable for you as well, as you will get to spend time with your GC. When we all gather for meals at my parents house we almost have to vie for who gets to do what, because everyone wants to be involved. I also like cooking because of the compliments I receive afterwards – I know that is a bit selfish to say, but everyone wins I guess- I get compliments and they get an awesome meal (not to toot my own horn or anything). Cooking can always be a stressful thing to do – you are cooking for X amount of people who are essentially relying on you for a good meal, but as Mary Poppins said "in every job that must be done, there is an element of fun, you find the fun, and *snap* the jobs a game!" And on a side note for other cooks – for me, if I have a big meal to cook, I try to think about what I can do a day or two before to make the day of less stressful (i.e. prep work); that way I can still enjoy the family time day of and not feel like I am stuck in the kitchen while everyone else is hanging out together.
Hello Gal and Welcome ,
On this site there are many moms that would relish the thought of cooking for all the family .
I realise how tiresome it can be and also the feeling that you are not appreciated .
What are the alternatives though ?
Each family sharing their meal in their own houses and no big family get together ?
I would love if all my family would come to me for Christmas , the more the merrier !
However this year there will probably be only three of us ......think I would rather be snowed under .
GFB, welcome to the site.
I hear you on being tired of doing the major portion of the cooking, and I understand not wanting to schlepp a big bird and all the supplies to cook it over to someone else's house year after year. IMO it makes more sense for the host/hostess to cook the "main event" and for the guests to bring designated sides. You've done it out of love & a sense of responsibility and it's frustrating when others don't want to take on what you've done all these years when it's become too much for you, or when they want to cancel the entire gathering if you won't cook. I would wonder if they love me for me or for my cooking?
My AC are quick to remind me that they are adults now in every other aspect of their lives, but they haven't accepted adult roles in our family where pitching in to make a holiday happen are concerned. I guess it's another thing we need to teach them, like we taught them independence and responsibility. Or in my case, DS/DIL do all that for the ILs but not for us.
Hoping to be a non-demanding MIL, I stepped back and let them tell us what worked for them. We do what they and the ILs
prefer which doesn't work for us, but we do it anyway so we can see DS. When I suggested other arrangements I was blasted by DS/DIL.
So I'm confused: Should we MILs speak up about what we want/need (self-advocating) and run the risk of not seeing our AC at holiday gatherings or should we step back and let them tell us what they want or need (as I've been doing)? I've heard both opinions from DILs, actually! I tend to agree with JDTM who suggested a lot of this drama is another way to not have to bother with us.
I'm amazed that I still love autumn/winter and still have high hopes for the holidays even though I'm usually exhausted and frustrated afterward. Those Norman Rockwell images run deep, I guess.
Welcome GFB :)
In an ideal world, I think rotating holidays between hosts would work best. And honest communication concerning expectations and all that jazz would happen.
But that's not typically the case lol. I think in most situations all you can say is "I'm going to do X this year." IMO, saying you're not going to cook but still want the celebration...thereby giving someone else cooking duties...is the same as what they did to you.
You can invite others to your celebrations but can't demand an invite to their house.
Treat your guests as family and family as guests.
A lot of the times I think these problems are exactly why it's a good idea for newly married to create their own traditions.
In my opinion the "big divide" is that when my generation was in their twenties, we went to visit our parents, attended all kind of family gatherings (that we might not have wanted to because of tensions between family members or because it was dead boring and a waste of an afternoon or evening). We went anyway because we were instilled with the sense that we had an obligation to do so and because we knew that the day would come when it would be our turn to "step up to the plate" and make a wonderful Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner.
I think the current generation in their 20's and 30's don't have that. These excuses about not wanting to come or cook for one reason or another are just that........ excuses.
I think there are two options, one is to cook the "Norman Rockwell" dinner and invite everyone, friends, relatives and neighbours to join in and ask them to bring their favourite _________whatever. The more the merrier, and whoever shows up has an enjoyable evening, and you let the chips fall where they may.
The other option is to try to make the tradition more of a "fun" celebration, for example, have a turkey made out of popcorn stuck together with cake icing, have a fireworks or sparklers event after dinner in the sky, invite a local band to play in your living room and feed them (they are always hungry), take a big picnic basket of KFC to a farm and enjoy a day on the horse drawn wagon, find a corn maze and hide packages of smarties and reeses pieces in the rows before everyone gets there. Plan to spend some time with the local baker with a behind the scenes hour or two of icing cakes and cupcakes, and have that instead of turkey. Make a cake in the shape of a turkey, everyone ices it and digs in instead of the same ofd predictable bird. Same deal, invited everyone you would like to spend time with, the more the merrier and whoever shows up, shows up. End of story, and a good time will be had by all who show up. Set up a draw for next year's event with ideas from everyone who attended this year and allow people to vote on line for next year's celebrations, so people can have something to look forward to.........and it wouldn't hurt to spend part of the day or do a food drive for the local food bank/shelter in the area.
Have a new theme every year.......mix it up and let everyone participate in choosing the theme and bringing/doing what they would like to do.
Norman Rockwell painted that portrait about 60 years ago, there were no microwaves, dishwashers, cell phones, internet, ipods or laptops. Those images are firmly implanted in the minds of women my age as something to live up to or want to replicate, and if you don't (well, you didn't quite make the cut) but I think it's time to update the portrait.
Start a tradition in your town, have a parade, live it up, invited everyone who doesn't have a family close by to join you, like Auntie Mame said "Lie is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death"........it's your banquet, live it up and have a blast, and don't worry about who does or doesn't come.
Gal,
I think what you said was fine - all you did was open up a conversation about future possibilities. I get the idea that the family has strong ties (since you get together a lot) so it can support a conversation about fixing turkey, right? Just keep your sense of humor about the whole thing.
If I've misread and the family ties are brittle, this may be the thing that brings a lot of issues to the surface that can be dealt with.
OP - keep in mind the simple act of HOSTING is a big deal.
As a DIL, if I was hosting my DH's family for dinner on Christmas, and I had my kids, the very act of getting us all ready, getting my home ready, and preparing meals, decorating, planning, etc on top of the gift buying, etc. That is WAY more then enough. Does DIL work on top of all of this? Maybe put yourself in her shoes. After all of that, the very fact that she's allowing this get together to take place in her home is a pretty big deal, and a lot of DIL's wouldn't bother and tell their DH good luck with that.
If you really don't want to cook the bird though - I don't know. Its getting close to holidays. Now might not be a great time to announce you're wanting to change something so central to your family meal up. However, I think its perfectly appropriate for you to announce at this dinner that you hope they enjoy the bird b/c , while you are happy to contribute to meals in the future, you are hereby retiring from making turkeys. Fair enough!
I think Aloho has a good point about all the work involved in getting the house ready, etc. Cooking the turkey is pretty easy - and there are usually good sales on turkey at Thanksgiving - but HAULING the darn bird over to DS and DIL's house could be a big chore for Gal. Do you live close to DS? Could he come pick up the turkey when it is cooked? Or could you cook it there? Take it and the roasting pan, stick it in the oven, then leave for a few hours until it is done? None of this works of course if Gal doesn't live close to DS and DIL. And if you live too far away for your strong DS to come pick up the bird, then you are probably too far away to deliver a hot, cooked turkey, anyway. ;)
As far as it needing to be at DS and DIL's house because the kids do not want to go anywhere else, I guess I'm just lazy, but I would find it easier to go there rather than try to stock up on games, toys, etc that would keep the GKs happy and busy. Not a problem at their own home. And having GKs not pout and whine because their bored could make any Thanksgiving more pleasant :)
I also think Keys Girl has a very interesting point about the great divide. Although I've been married for 30 years, when I was dating my DH (and other guys before that) - if I liked the guy, I really tried hard to establish a relationship with his FOO. It was important to be liked and accepted by them. I do not sense that same motivation in my DIL. She is willing to tolerate us, is always civil, but no warmth or effort to establish any bonds. It was puzzling to us at first - we kept wondering what we had done wrong - and kept on trying to be friendly. Finally we realized she doesn't want much of a relationship with DS family. And so it goes . . .
But I thought Keys made a good point - as all my girlfriends years ago were quite eager for their boyfriends', fiances', husbands' families to like and accept them.
GAL, greetings & peace to you across the miles. I think you are tired, and something is going on inside of you, maybe it is a patch of depression, or a passage, but I think you are very emotionally exhausted and there might be a way out of this. I sense that you are seen by the family as having very big shoulders, you are the Atlas of the family, but I think you're tired. I suggest you write a photocopied card or letter to all of them, and express a different side of yourself. " Loved ones, I am tired. I am not strong this year. This is not the best of times in my life right now. I cannot explain completely, but I need all of you to carry me this holiday. I need to not be in charge this year, I need a little tlc, dear family. You are all capable to do this and much more. Please be kind and understanding and lets make some wonderful family memories this year that we will always cherish. " Give yourself permission to have a down time, dear GAL.
Alohomora, I understand what you're saying about hosting, cooking, decorating, cleaning, gifting, etc etc as a young working married person with kids because I did it! Many of us MILs have done it all along, that's why we're tired!
If you must have turkey, but don't want to fix it why not see if your DD will switch with you? She can make the turkey and you can make desserts? If that won't work then I say go with the other suggestion of making whatever you want. My grandmother decided a few years ago that she didn't want to make the turkey and all the 'fixins' to go with it. So she made two big pots of soups. An Asian soup and a Mexican soup. And you know what. It was still Thanksgiving! The world didn't stop. Macy's still had that big parade on tv. And everyone was full!
Either way, do what you want and if they ask you about the turkey just tell them you just weren't up to it and this (what ever it is you end up bringing) is what you brought.
They'll get over it and get used to it.
Hi GAL! This is for you, hope it makes you laugh! Wish all us wisewomen could spend thanksgiving together, just our own special day! Here is my take on wisewomen having Thanksgiving dinner together. (Pen, if this is inappropriate please feel free to delete! It is not serious! )
"Oh! Who cooked the turkey! POOH cooked the turkey! (Pen and Pam) 'Ladies lets bow our heads and take a moment to read the forum agreement.' (Nana) 'I don't know...he just seems so wounded...' (Pooh) 'I don't give a rat's butt, Nana! ( Luise) 'You were a whole person before you cooked the turkey, Pooh, and you can be a whole person after. (Doe) 'We should be strong enough as a group to talk about fixing a turkey!' (Chelmsford) 'Just like my Mum used to make.' (Sassy) My you people amaze me with the complexities and nuances over the state of this poultry! (Elsie) 'It's cooked, Rose, the sane thing to do is to eat it and follow through, you do not have the power to resurrect it.' (Rose) 'The bird gave itself for a higher purpose.' (Scoop) The fair thing to do is to take the cost of the bird, divide by 12, factor in the interest and penalty, lets see..factor in the devaluation, figure in the extras...' (Keys Girl) 'Is everyone ready to vote on next year? GONNA SIT AND MOPE....??NOPEGONNA GET OUT THERE AND LIVE IT UP!!!YUP, YUP, YUP' (Begonia) silently distributing her autographed copies of cookbook. (Bdwell) 'Well I say lets get the party on!' (Lancaster Lady) ' step aside ladies, I'll have all this cleaned up in a jif!' (GALfrombrooklyn) 'Vivendo!'
didn't mean to leave anyone out!
I am a little confused as to why your son's kids don't want to spend TG anywhere else but home, but they come to you for Xmas? Your son's excuse for why everyone has to come to his house for TG seems a little lame. I think you ought to have offered to show your son not your DIL how to roast a turkey. I know a lot of DILs get their teeth on edge when traditional gender roles are assumed. But really, roasting a turkey these days is simple. You defrost the bird, wash it off, take out the innards, put it in the pan, coat with a little butter or oil and let it cook til the little yellow plastic thing goes pop. It's not like back in Norman Rockwell days where you had to baste the thing every 10 minutes. Stuffing usually comes out of a box and you don't have to put it in the bird. TG dinner is one of the easiest I think - nowadays!
I'd say tell your own daughter if she doesn't want any waves, she should do the turkey and you'll do the desserts. If you can afford to buy a turkey cooked at the grocery store, that's another modern option. Or hey, how about cornflakes for everyone? Tell your son his options are he cooks the turkey (borrowing your roasting pan, or hey, maybe you could give him $2 to get an aluminum one at the grocery store) or you'll bring sandwiches/meatloaf/stew/whatever you find easiest.
You have every right to switch things up. Especially at Christmas. Probably your offspring are spoiled from you doing everything all these years and they have gotten complacent. Just calmly announce the new role you want to play.
I bet for all the MILs who complain about DILs/AC who won't take over holiday chores, we can find DILs complaining about MILs who refuse to let the next generation make any changes. There was an Everyone Loves Raymond episode about that. I know that's how I TO'd my inlaws - wanting to host TG when my parents and sister were coming in from out -of-state instead of dragging them to MILs.
RUTH!
The fair thing would be to divide the cost by 16.
....
Not that I counted the names or anything.
...
;D
Maybe I am wrong, but I thought the OP said that the DS insisted it be at their house and that OP does the whole big shebang at her house on Christmas. So we are asking her to be considerate and remember that DIL has probably had to clean, etc. but yet, they asked for it and she does the same thing and more on Christmas? Or DS did which then DIL needs to thump him in the head and make him do all the cleaning if she doesn't want it there? I don't get why if the same situation was reversed, we would be condemning the MIL, but yet now we have people condemning the MIL when she takes a stand?
Let's just say if I came in and said, "Ok, I'm a DIL and I host Christmas every year for my DH's entire family. I do all the cooking, cleaning...everything. I like doing it and MIL does Thanksgiving at her house. Now, she says we have to come there because it's too hard on her to come here. Me and DH have to cook the turkey every year, SIL does all the desserts and MIL makes the sides. I'm very tired of having to do the turkey this year and I have lost my job, so financially, it will be hard for us to do. When I told MIL that, she said that we will still be doing it as usual and will not change. I don't know what to do. I feel like since I do all the Christmas, and yes I want to, that MIL could at least do the turkey on Thanksgiving and I shouldn't be expected to do that too and take it to her house. Just doing Christmas financially is going to be hard on me, but I'm still going to do it."
I'm just curious as to those that are feeling bad for the DIL in Gal's situation, what advice would you be giving the DIL if the situation was reversed? Would we be saying, but MIL has to do all the housework, etc. to have everyone for Thanksgiving. I know I would be telling the DIL the same thing I told Gal. I wouldn't do it. You host Christmas and are willing to travel to MIL's on Thanksgiving. Tell her you will bring some sides that are portable, but the bird is too much and you are having financial problems. Shame on MIL for not stepping up.
Quote from: Ruth on October 18, 2011, 06:18:10 AM
Hi GAL! This is for you, hope it makes you laugh! Wish all us wisewomen could spend thanksgiving together, just our own special day! Here is my take on wisewomen having Thanksgiving dinner together. (Pen, if this is inappropriate please feel free to delete! It is not serious! )
"Oh! Who cooked the turkey! POOH cooked the turkey! (Pen and Pam) 'Ladies lets bow our heads and take a moment to read the forum agreement.' (Nana) 'I don't know...he just seems so wounded...' (Pooh) 'I don't give a rat's butt, Nana! ( Luise) 'You were a whole person before you cooked the turkey, Pooh, and you can be a whole person after. (Doe) 'We should be strong enough as a group to talk about fixing a turkey!' (Chelmsford) 'Just like my Mum used to make.' (Sassy) My you people amaze me with the complexities and nuances over the state of this poultry! (Elsie) 'It's cooked, Rose, the sane thing to do is to eat it and follow through, you do not have the power to resurrect it.' (Rose) 'The bird gave itself for a higher purpose.' (Scoop) The fair thing to do is to take the cost of the bird, divide by 12, factor in the interest and penalty, lets see..factor in the devaluation, figure in the extras...' (Keys Girl) 'Is everyone ready to vote on next year? GONNA SIT AND MOPE....??NOPEGONNA GET OUT THERE AND LIVE IT UP!!!YUP, YUP, YUP' (Begonia) silently distributing her autographed copies of cookbook. (Bdwell) 'Well I say lets get the party on!' (Lancaster Lady) ' step aside ladies, I'll have all this cleaned up in a jif!' (GALfrombrooklyn) 'Vivendo!'
didn't mean to leave anyone out!
Ok, I'm rolling here Ruth! I even hated for the first time to edit out a not-so-appropriate word because it was hilarious! Thanks. I needed that laugh!
I have re-read the posts and am still confused. I'm a MIL so naturally I see things from the MIL perspective. But here, GAL hosts Christmas and complains about having to go to DIL's for Tksgv. Also complains about having to do all the work. From my perspective, Tksgv shouldn't be a problem. GAL is not doing all the work for Tksgv. She is doing it all for Christmas, however.
For Tksgv, as one DIL on this site said, the DIL and DS are cleaning and decorating the house, setting the table (no small chore in my house where none of the glasses match), etc. Getting ready to host takes a full day of work. They are also doing the sides, appetizers, I assume, condiments, etc. Then washing all the dishes afterwards, putting furniture back where it should be, etc. I get back to where turkeys are cheap at Tksgv, easy to cook, hard to transport. Cook the turkey, get DS to come pick it up, and have a great time without doing all the work.
Maybe the real problem is Christmas, where you invite them all to a huge Italian meal. If you want to do less work, why not suggest that Christmas be at your son's or daughter's? And you'll bring a couple of your famous Italian dishes. That is how you will truly reduce your work load. Or if you really want Christmas at your house, tell them each to bring a dish or two. If you get the house ready and cook a main dish like lasagna, then they can bring everything else and it will not be so expensive for you.
I just am getting mixed messages - does GAL want less work or does she want to have Tksgv at her place? She really can't have it both ways. Having Tksgv at her place is MORE work, not less.
In general, if a MIL wants both Tksgv and Christmas at her place, maybe that MIL needs to let go some. It's one thing to have both holidays at MIL's when AC are just married and living in tiny 1 BR apartment - but 10 years later, when they have children and a place big enough to host, the MILs probably need to let go some and let the DILs and DSs assume some responsibility and establish some of their own family traditions.
Shelby, maybe I am reading it wrong, but I took it that Gal's problem was not having to go to their house for Thanksgiving, but that they insisted it be at their house but yet she still has to cook the big stuff (turkey) every year and tote it there. Also, that this is becoming a financial struggle this year too for her, so she was asking not that they change venue, but that could they switch around food and let her do the sides and them do the turkey and they refused?
That's what my take was on her OP, but I may be wrong.
I believe the original post was stating that MIL goes to DS and DIL's house for Thanksgiving and does the cooking because according to son, DIL doesn't know how to cook a turkey. GAL is frustrated because she is already doing all of the cooking AND hosting at Christmas. I believe that she is wondering why she cooks for both holidays and has to host one as well. GAL, is this correct?
On another note, I sometimes wonder if things get lost in translation from the conversation DS has with DIL to the point of DS communicating with his parents? This is a generally pondering, just wanted to know some of your thoughts, as it sometimes seems MILs take things their sons say as exact.
HEY RUTH .........I love to party party ! Cant wait ....my house or yours ?
MoonChild that was my thought too. Is DS really relaying what DIL has said, or his assumptions and wishes?
Quote from: lancaster lady on October 18, 2011, 06:59:48 AM
HEY RUTH .........I love to party party ! Cant wait ....my house or yours ?
Umm....if I'm doing the Turkey, then my house! Lol. Now who's coming over to clean?
Haha Ruth!
And yep, herbalescapes, I would have loved to host a holiday but MIL wouldn't and still hasn't given one up. So this year is my turn regardless :)
Yes, Pooh. I am always wondering this, as i know FDH is terrible at relaying messages properly, he just doesn't think about exactly how he is wording something, and how a woman will interpert or try to analyze it. I know my wonderful FDH and I have had to have this conversation so that I could explain to him that the way he relays his messages sound as if they are coming as my opinion when in fact this was a joint opinion, but I think that sometimes they jsut don't want to upset their mothers (I cannot blame them for this) so it is easier to say, 'oh well MoonChild says we are doing x y and z.' Luckily for me, my FMIL knows how her son operates so she is able to understand what the REAL situation usually is.
Yep, I know how my Sons are too and how much easier it is to say, "DIL said..." than own up to their own decisions. That's why I believe that DILs and MILs should communicate directly in an ideal world. But then I have learned here, that many women believe it is the DS's place to communicate with his FOO.
Ruth - you have me laughing! That was so spot on!
I hope we haven't lost the Gal from Brooklyn! Are you still there?
Yes Pooh, it is a tricky line to teeter on as to whether or not DS should communicate with FOO on behalf of DIL or if DIL and MIL should discuss things directly. IMHO, I believe that if it is regards to a joint decision then DS and DIL may want to have a joint conversation with ILs, then everyone is one the same page and there is no he-said she-said. If DIL or MIL is at a discord regarding a situation then they should handle it themselves as two adults. If DIL or MIL is uncomfortable with their feelings then perhaps it may be okay to first discuss with DS or DH about how to be able to have a rational conversation with MIL or DIL. I know sometimes if I have an issue and it is regarding my feelings, if I discuss it with FDH he can open my eyes to other insights that then subdue any tense feelings, sometimes we just need a different perspective.
Me and my DH run everything by each other, but I also have a DH that would communicate my wishes and not blame it on me, but say "We". Makes a huge difference.
I too hope Gal comes back.
I was just thinking about this b/c my MIL would not talk to me for the longest time. I'd bring something up, she'd leave the room or change the conversation. The reason why DH started talking to her is b/c of that exactly. She didn't give him any better reaction -- cried, yelled, tantrums but she *did* at least acknowledge him which was better than me.
And, to be honest, DH does make most of the decisions in regards to his FOO. For the most part I have very little input, I might pick out a gift or make a meal, but he is the one they talk to and invite or make plans through so the backseat has seemed more natural.
So, it's probably situational depending on so many things. The general advice I've seen is that the adult child of the parent *should* know how to communicate with their parents by now, the relationship between adult child and parent should be relatively calm and strong enough to handle disagreement. Perhaps the problems come in when the relationship isn't strong enough? I do think it probably leads directly back to how well DS manages his own relationships and what the state of the DS/Mom relationship was before marriage.
Because really, when I think about DH having to talk to my father for me....well, I can't imagine not being able to talk to my own father about every day stuff. And most of the time this is what it comes down too, it's asking a lot of a DIL to manage the relationship with MIL when her own son can't do it. Not saying MIL is wrong or did anything, it's just not a good idea.
I see that. I also see in my case, OS would say "Dil said.." to me, and tell DIL "Mom said..." to her. It is a problem between me and OS, and DIL and OS. The difference is I recognize it and would be the first to know OS was to blame. DIL chooses to believe OS because she decided from the get-go not to have a relationship with our family.
So yes, I agree with you, it's situational and in your case, I would let DH do all the communicating with MIL too.
True, DIL is probably going to believe DS no matter what, until such time it really does start to affect her. It sounds like it is a one person problem though, a DS who has not developed relationship skills. By having a DIL speak to MIL in these instances is almost just like putting a band aid on without actually treating the problem.
The worst part (and my DH did this too) is that sometimes they decide working on themselves is too much so they quit communicating altogether. DH did this with MIL multiple times, his solution was just to bury his head in the sand. And there was nothing I could do about it but I got all the flak, go figure lol. Like I could make that man do anything, if I could he would be cleaning the house by now
Ha ha, yep. I have always said that my OS is the main problem. Either by choosing not to communicate with me, her or any family, or by allowing her to dictate what he will and will not do, either way...it's on him. It's a choice he's making. I don't think she helps matters and makes it difficult on him, but it still lies with him. I love my DH more than life, but if he told me not to talk to my Mom or family anymore without a valid reason, it would be on.
My problem is that DS believes everything his DW tells him especially things that I have supposedly said , and still believes
her even though I tell him I didn't !
Why would his mother tell lies ! I grew out of playground tactics many years ago .
I don't know, Ruth - it IS close to Halloween. Maybe we could try our hand at turkey resurrection?
Elsie
-who needs to get some more coffee to replace what ended up on the monitor :D
Ruth your post was hilarious.
And I agree with whomever wrote that since DD doesn't want to rock the boat, take that as an offer for DD to roast the turkey and Gal to bring the desserts.
I've got a suggestion for you, GAL. It just came to me with all this talk about the south...why don't you surprise them by bringing a "turkuckin" for TG? I bet they'd wrestle over who gets to roast the turkey next year! 8)
You're a hoot, Ruth! What a party that would be! :o Is west TX considered as part of the south? Regardless, I'd still be southern as dm was from KY. I loooove okra & collards, df dunked his corn bread in milk, & who doesn't like a country ham?! We were visiting an a & u when he got arrested for making moonshine. I love southern food, but I have to admit, I've never made turkuckin... ;D
Quote from: alohomora on October 17, 2011, 01:29:54 PM
OP - keep in mind the simple act of HOSTING is a big deal.
As a DIL, if I was hosting my DH's family for dinner on Christmas, and I had my kids, the very act of getting us all ready, getting my home ready, and preparing meals, decorating, planning, etc on top of the gift buying, etc. That is WAY more then enough. Does DIL work on top of all of this? Maybe put yourself in her shoes.
I was in those shoes for quite some time, and did it all, worked, communted, shopped, took care of my son, did the laundry, etc.etc. and hosted some elaborate meals for my ex-husbands FOO that I used to start planning 6 weeks earlier. My ex never lifted a finger to "host" his FOO and at times would be busy "working" so the task of entertaining them and listening to their constant complaints of the rising price of bananas fell on my shoulders and he was happy to take the credit for any kind of appreciation that they had for the meals and visits. Divorce is never a pleasant experience for anyone, but it brightened up my day when the "collateral damage" meant that my days of being in those pinching toes were over.
The comment reminds me of that commercial for Enjoli in 1980 (which probably raised so many expectations for those of us, now MILs who weren't born into the microwave age).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA4DR4vEgrs
Thanks for the invite, Ruth. Love to party and help eating the turkey. There goes my diet .... again! I'll do the dishes because they are virtual! HA :)
Ruth, I'm just catching up on your post.......you brought tears to my eyes, yup, yup, yup, totally hilarious....I'll be chuckling for the rest of the week. If I had more money I'd get some t-shirts printed with the post, and we could wear them on Thanksgiving!!
I realize some MIL's did the same as we are doing now - they paid their due with hosting. Frankly when my own mother got older and my eldest sisters started marrying, we began (and continue) to host all family events at our houses and my parents are invited guests who sometimes help and sometimes just show up with a bottle or two of wine.
But in my marriage, I do for my relatives and DH does for his. My IL's live far away but when they visit its on DH. He cleans the house, he cooks. In recent years my relationship has vastly improved with the IL's, and I am happy to assist when I can. But when things were sour between us, I didn't even want them in my house. And I certainly refused to lift a finger to host them.
Ugh. I remember one epic meal at my MIL's YEARS ago when things were getting really bad. I was a vegan for five years. MIL covered every single dish she served us the three days we flew out there to visit with meat juice. Even the carrots. 'for flavour.' She'd never done this before. As I ate my take out food out of a plastic container, with a disposable can of something or other to drink (food I'd walked to buy myself because the IL's wouldn't let us use one of their three vehicles to go buy), MIL turned to me and said 'Well, you two can do the dish's.' There were 12 people at the dinner and no dishwasher - and I was the only one who didn't even use a utensil (wood chopsticks). I got up and walked out of the house, and told DH (then BF) over my shoulder 'have fun.'
Rose, you're still south of the Mason Dixon line, so we'll include you in the South!
Alohomora, your MIL sounds like a real piece of work. I'm sorry you were treated rudely and cruelly by her in the past; you say things are better now. I'm glad to hear it! What changed, if I may ask?
Yes I'm interested too to hear what changed if you want to share because I still live in hope that things will improve with my family.
That used to happen when we used to visit my DS before he was married .My DIL would sit and basically ignore us and my DS would run round making drinks etc .We were never invited for a meal . It made us feel very unwelcome and reluctant to visit ........come to think of it perhaps that was her intention.!
Wow LL, that's really awful. I wonder if that was her intention or was it lack of home training? My DH is a very kind man but had absolutely no guidance in manners and hosting.
I can relate to the MILs here who say it was important for them to be accepted by their in laws and they cooked/cleaned/helped out etc. For me it is the same, whenever I went to their house I helped in some way, usually dishes. It would be unnerving to me not to be a proper host *especially* to my in laws.
I think sometimes these DILs may be doing it intentionally or perhaps they made a deal with their DH, I don't know. It would seem odd to me to do that from the beginning when there weren't any problems though.
My DIL changed completely after my GD came along .....the ' I want to be friends person ' became the ' keep away cold person ' she is today .Once she had cemented her relationship with my DS she didn't need to show any friendship or warmth whatsoever !
Mine changed right after the wedding. LL, we've never been invited to dinner either in all these years. Once DS poured me a cup of coffee after we dropped them off and DH & I had a long drive home. That's it. DIL's FOO entertains all the time, so I know she understands the etiquette of hosting. She doesn't like us, and that's that.
My my my how things have changed! We used to just do the family meal thing at holidays or for visiting whether we 'liked' the inlaws or not.
Now we need to read a book or take a course on how to communicate with the DIL or SIL's to figure out what it is they want or don't want to do on holidays or visits.
So complicated, but not likely to change back to the good old days.
Or were they so good? I remember many not so good, but the alternative can be lonely.
Large family meals are common here in Southern Italy and are celebrated at least once a week, on Sunday, and its normal to have them even more often than once aweek.
All members of a family get the children from school, get their haircuts, shop for each other, babysitting ( a word they dont even know, it means full time Nanny).
4 or 5 generations are frequently present at meals if still living. Aged grandmothers are expected to sit in nice dress in evenings where they will be visited by young family members and their friends and girlfriends. Quite often the TV is on but no one is watching, they are all busy talking.
Quote from: Pen on October 18, 2011, 09:25:44 PM
Alohomora, your MIL sounds like a real piece of work. I'm sorry you were treated rudely and cruelly by her in the past; you say things are better now. I'm glad to hear it! What changed, if I may ask?
Of course. Maybe at some point I should post a bit of my story in more detail it might be helpfull.
I've been with my (now) DH over a decade - we met when we were 18. Things were not good with MIL from the go. DH is the golden son. Honestly any parents dream child. Good person, but on top of that attractive and smart, charismatic. He is also the oldest. MIL was used to yelling and getting her way with all members of her FOO. I was a spoiled, entitled 18 year old brat who was raised to never accept being treated poorly by anyone. So the combination didn't mix so well.
I could tell endless stories of poor treatment on both sides. Nothing ever decended into cursing, physical violence, or anything extreme. But we had harsh words, cut-offs, etc.
What changed was a death in my family. This story is very difficult for me to related so I won't go into detail but someone who was very close to me. MIL had been cut off for going on three years after the Thanksgiving Throwdown. At DBF request to do *something*, IL's sent a very very large basket of food to my family (they were across the country) and a sympathy note. A couple of months later when I was back home (had stayed with my family to help) I decided to call her and thank her.
Since then we've had one more epic battle (The China Cabinet Fiasco) and a couple of minor hiccups, mostly related to our wedding.
I think a few things happened. On my part I matured. Rapidly after the death in my family also. I decided to try again and start over. I let my anger at being treated poorly go, and had a long talk with DH about trying again with his parents. Luckily, MIL had had a lot of time to think about her end in all of this - and while her and I have never discussed what might have changed for her - she has since really made a MASSIVE effort to be friendly and even caring and considerate towards me. She also seemed to understand that DH would always put me first, because she stopped trying to force him to make impossible decisions where he had to choose me or his family.
Elizabeth :
those are memories from my childhood days , all the family , plus extended family all one big HAPPY family .
Always a houseful of people , everyone helping plus all the children from every family .
What happened to those days ? Think I will retire to Italy where family values remain precious .
Alohoma I wish more often that these kinds of traumatic incidents you describe served to heal rifts and wipe slates clean, but sadly it so often doesn't. I believe the MIL/DIL contempt is very very hard to get past. From my own life, I admit it is. It seems to be many layered and I find it to be the hardest score in my life to settle. I despise her at times, and a shocking rage can rise up in me toward her at times, but even then I can still see things about her I admire. I don't like loose ends in my life like this. I hate contention and want closure and peace. But I'm not able to achieve that with this person, the same as I can't with DS. ......sigh
It is difficult. My family is very open and direct to the point of insulting even sometimes, but we all love each other very much and our opinons are born out of concern. But when DH's family would say anything bordering on negative to us, it would get my back up right away and I would respond tenfold. At some point I recognized my huge double standard. I think MIL also recognized I wasn't *her* child and she needed to really do a better job of keeping her opinions in regards to our choices to herself more.
With our first child on its way, I am really on these forums reading as much as possible. I do not want to turn into a monster DIL, but I am also worried about MIL becoming hugely overbearing. Its not been causing me much stress as of yet, but at some point I know it will.
Alohamora..........Do you get mad if your own DM voices her opinion of your choices ? I realise you are not your MIL's child, but your DH is her child . This is where we MIL's get a raw deal with our DIL, whats ok for their DM is not ok for her DH 's DM . We don't stop becoming a parent when our DS gets married . I agree we can become overbearing but. usually because we have been shut out. Dont cast us aside we are still family and we care , given half the chance .
I totally understand taking the same words from my Mom and from my MIL in a totally different way.
My Mom actually criticizes me more than my MIL does. But I have 40 years of history with my Mom. I *know*, deep in my soul, where she's coming from. As for my MIL, I have 14 years of unpleasant history with her. I'm pretty sure I know her motives too - and they're not loving.
It's a 2 way street too. If my Mom crosses a line, I tell her and we resolve it and it's over. If I call MIL on something, there are tears and wailing and gnashing of teeth, no resolution and a grudge is held. It could be because no one has ever called her on anything before.
One more thing, if my Mom says something that bothers my DH, I tell her and ask her to stop. And she does. The reverse is not true. DH does not have an adult relationship with his P's. He does not have the tools / experience / ability to draw a specific boundary and enforce it, gently at first and then increasingly strict. So he has withdrawn from them, putting up a wall, instead of a boundary. And that's why I don't take the blame anymore for how it is between them. THEY have to negotiate their relationship and they ALL have to be willing to bend and be respectful to each other. Since MIL can't respect any boundaries, she gets a wall. Not my fault. Not my problem.
"a wall instead of a boundary"...thanks for that - I never heard it put that way.
Neither have I, 'wall' sounds very threatening and final. History has taught us that this does not have to be so ... therefore I live in hope because at the moment I feel that family because of silent treatment is erecting a wall. I don't somehow think, I have deserved it but I must have done something in the past, unwittingly maybe, which has lead to this rift. It's painful. But as I said earlier, walls can crumble too. I hope so but I have to be patient.
Good point, Scoop.
My FOO is rarely critical although they are very direct speakers. It could be b/c I'm so perfect and all that they are just struck speechless by me and have nothing to criticsize. But I highly doubt that LOL
I do notice though when someone in my FOO has something to say it is taken seriously, while MIL talks and talks and is negative/critical most of her day and everyone ignores her.
Chelmsford, not necessarily have you 'done something in the past that led to this rift'. People do what they do. She always had, and has, the choice to choose peace and harmony for her family. You hold an open door for you, you aren't the one holding the gun.
LL - The problem here is my parents never tell DH if they disagree with something. In fact in all this time I can't remember one thing my parents have ever really said to me that was negative about my DH!
So with my side handling things in this way, its a whole other thing for MIL to come over and start in with her two cents. I could never imagine anyone in my FOO every going to my DH and telling him they didn't like XYZ. I would flip my lid if they did that to him.
Scoop was right on - for years DH really was the big problem here. MIL would make nasty comments or do nasty things and DH would sit there and do nothing. So I had to defend myself. And because I disliked her I did it with the worst approach's. It wasn't until DH began standing up for me and we had a cut off, that our relationship improved.
Right now we're getting a lot of flying monkey type relatives telling us that DH doesn't call his poor mother enough. DH really get's his back up on this one - he calls when he can. But he's not as involved as his siblings are - they talk to the IL's daily. DH is fine calling every other week. They don't understand this.
Over the last year I actually took a lot of pity on MIL b/c I thought this must be hard on her with her eldest living so far away, so I called her weekly and kept her updated on our lives. Well, I've come to find out from these same relatives that while its 'nice' that I call, she would like to talk to DH more to listen to his voice and make sure he's ok and its not the same.
So basically, I've gone out of my way for a year to be nice and keep her involved in our lives but apparently that's not good enough. Maybe I'm hormonal but my weekly calls have ended for now - she can wait for DH to call once a month when he remembers.
Oh, and just to add - I did ask her about this. I mentioned 'you know MIL, DH is extremely busy so he calls when he can (usually the same day every other week)' and she said 'oh I know but he never calls I never hear from you guys!!'
Me: MIl that's not true I call you every week and since we're on the topic you never call us yourself. We always call you.
MIL: Well you guys are always so busy I don't want to interfere.
Me: That doesn't make any sense - you are complaining you don't hear from us but you don't make the effort to call.
MIL: Well you know all the other boys always call me.
Me: Right. So you prefer if you receive the calls.
MIL: Well that's just how its done.
I'm just really annoyed. I feel like I wasted my time over this last year trying to include her and instead of getting appreciated for my efforts all I'm getting is complaints that it isn't DH calling every week, and relatives reporting back to us constantly that 'poor MIL never get's to talk to her eldest son.'
Sigh.
alohomora, take comfort in that you did try :) It wasn't a waste of time b/c now you know. If you hadn't tried you wouldn't have known and still might think there is something more you can do.
I know what you mean, I really can't even remember a time my parents have in anyway spoke of DH negatively or critically. If anything, they are extraordinarily proud of him and sometimes I sense they like him more than me! LOL
So yes, it's quite a shocker and jaw dropper to come from that side to MIL wherein every move I make is scrutinized/analyzed, she needs to know why, constantly badgering DH to know, to change me...very exhausting.
And yes, I do think when there is a MIL issue that it is superficial. Dig a little deeper and you'll find DH standing there looking around like what? who me? LOL When there is an issue in the DS/MIL relationship it's my humble opinion that there is *nothing* a DIL can do. Try to intefere (even well meaning) like calling and keeping them updated will never be enough b/c that just isn't what MIL is after.
Until DH and MIL fix their relationship on their own terms there isn't much I can do. It's taking everything I have to sit back and let them deal with it themselves. All this talk about I don't do this and I don't do that MIL has going on is a bunch of baloney. No matter what *I* do it's going to be wrong, not right, not work b/c *I'm* not a part of the problem.
Aloho,
As crazy as your relationship seems with your MIL, you two are miles ahead of some people whose relatives don't communicate at all. Just lower your expectations of the MIL - you know she's a bit of a dunce - so you can just expect illogical conversation with her from now on. Hopefully, you can find some humor in the situation.
alohomora :
I would welcome your weekly phone calls with updates .
I really want to bond with my DIL , despite her early treatment of me .
I know my own DS can be a pain in the butt ....I could shake him sometimes with his lack of sensitivity .
I know not to discuss my DIL with him , I learnt this from an early stage .
I don't think my DIL wants a relationship with me , and I have to learn to accept this , my DS and I have
always been friends , where as we can discuss anything , I hoped things could have been the same
with his DW .
I really can't put my finger on why we just don't gel , I just feel I am on tenter hooks all the time with her
even though she lives with me . I have done my utmost to make her feel welcome , to have my DS tell
me a few weeks ago she thinks I don't like her and we don't want her here .
I didn't say what he had told me , so not to embarrass her , but told her I loved having them
stay with us . Her birthday was last week , she was house sitting at her FOO , so I sent her a card and gift
voucher for her favourite store .
So I'll just have to accept what we have and hope it grows .
On the other hand my GD and I have bonded like glue ! Maybe she will think that well if my daughter loves
her she must be ok .....lol I live in hope .... :)
I so know how you feel Lancaster Lady because I'm in the same situation. Are we making the mistake of ingratiating ourselves too much to our DIL, I sometimes wonder?
From previous posts I have seen that you are doing a lot for the family and it seems you are doing it gladly and without expecting much in return, just the feeling of a harmonious relationship with everybody. I don't mean harmonious in a romantic sort of way, just being able to be yourself and not walk on eggshells all the time. Am I right?
I have been away for 2 months now from this part of my family and I have only spoken to DS twice and have not heard anything at all from DIL. So we do not gel. It really boils down to chemistry and there may be nothing we can do about it and no amount of giving an putting ourselves second will change that. It's just the luck of the draw. I have young women friends with babies and I sometimes wish one of them could have been my DIL.
I've just been unlucky in that respect, I think. But don't get me wrong, I've not given up hope, I know that everything in life can change so also this situation, I just don't think it will change by giving anything.
DS has made a few mistakes also but it is so much easier to communicate with him. I don't walk on eggshells with him but I do think that he probably sees me through her eyes as well. Never thought I could be in this kind of situation and I think I share this with many women from this forum.
Best of luck, hope your situation will improve,you seem such a nice lady and MIL (vouchers from her favourite shop for her birthday, does she know how good she has it?) I wonder why she feels that she is not wanted?
I have this theory which is not substantiated, just a hunch. The story lines of soap operas are full of conflicts between families, some of them really dire. Our children have grown up watching those on a regular basis, I sometimes wonder whether they want to replay these scenarios in their own lives and we have to be the unwilling participants in the plot. Just a thought.
hi Chelmsford ,
Yes you are right ! I would love to be able to be myself , my DD gets mad at me and says why should you
change your whole persona just to accommodate her ? Believe me I try not to !
My DS has changed beyond all recognition , to the extent that my DD and him are no longer friends !
My DIL has had the princess treatment all her life , so she expects it from all her associates .I just don't
get her at all , nada !!
I think I will get the same treatment once they move out , in two weeks ! no contact whatsoever .
now how do we deal with this ? Let them contact us when they are ready ? ( Never ) !
Or keep sending texts (their mode of contact ) .
I would really like regular contact with my GD , perhaps once every two weeks ? they will be living an
hour away by road , so not far .
Do I wait for an invitation , or announce my visit ?
My sister has a GD nearly a year old from her DS ....what a difference in her relationship to mine .
She has her GD for two days a week , and can drop round any time she wants .
Earlier in our relationship , with my DIL , I mentioned this arrangement my DSister has , she said ....
I can't be that person !
Mt GD is 20 months , and I have babysat twice on my own , for just two hours !
I try not to take this personally , and that its just my DIL's way of parenting , but its hard .
As for tv soaps , no way , my DIL is glued to her laptop most of the day , and rarely watches tv .
So they are off in two weeks , although she has really moved out already , still not back yet !
I'll keep you posted of future developments ........ :(
It's so sad and I can share your pain.
I suddenly ask myself whether I'm a nice person at all - so far I thought I was and when I moved near them I was full of energy and willingness to muck in and do everything which would make their lives easier, all to no avail. I've done more damage than if I had stayed put in my job and my own environment with DH. Now I'm faced with issues which just didn't exist, (at least not in the open) before.
I sometimes wonder whether DS is happy in his relationship and if he is not, that would be worse. If he has changed and he manages his own family and has found a new family in her FOO I can live with that. I just don't want him to think he has made the wrong choice in his DW whose background is so different from ours.
As I said before I am really astonished that it has come to this because I always thought that I was an inclusive person who respected and accepted otherness. Well this test has taught me that there are limits to this attitude, that's sad because it is shaking up the whole way of how we (and I include DH in this) have organised our life. And it is close family who have brought about these doubts.
I would love to ask all my close friends what they think of me - honest. They may be holding back opinions that I didn't know about. See how insecure all this has made me. Is this the same with you?
To give an anecdotal example: Yesterday my DH rang DS on his mobile. DS was eating with the DW who had come back to work. They spoke for a minute as DH did not want to disturb them. Now this was the end of it. In the past. DS would have rang back just for a little chat but none of that. I do understand that they are busy, but small gestures such as him ringing back would have made our day. DH didn't say anything but I know deep down inside he is disappointed as well.
Thanks for replying Lancaster Lady (I do like your WWU name, by the way). It is not the biggest problem one can have in the big scheme of things but it does hurt because we don't understand what all of this is about. To be so near your GD who you adore and not being able to see her is really heartbreaking, they are such wonderful people these babies and small children and they are part of us, not to see them is cruel.
Hope once your DS and DIL have moved out for good they will have a change of heart and include you more in their lives and in their daughter's life. Can't they see how small children benefit from the love of grandparents? You can't have enough love, can you and GP's love comes with no strings attached.
The sad thing is that in the future our DS and DIL will probably see their mistakes and regret them.
Your DS must really have changed if your DD does not want anything to do with him any more.
Thanks for sharing this.
Just my 2 pence (UK) worth on how to contact them. I would just wait for them to contact you, it takes a lot of patience but then you would know that they really want you. Not sure whether it works in your case, so this is only MHO. :)
QuoteTo be so near your GD who you adore and not being able to see her is really heartbreaking, they are such wonderful people these babies and small children and they are part of us,
I think this is part of our problem. We feel our grandchildren are a "part of us"; our children and their spouses (in many cases) do not. They regard us as "outsiders" who need to "get a life" and should not be involved/interested in them or their children. After all, they are not interested in us. Sad, isn't it?
I'm still amazed that she is unfriendly to you yet is living under your roof? Accepting free living quarters yet not even being pleasant? At least my DIL does not live with us!
Chelms, I know this may sound unbelievable but I ponder at times about the different WW's posts and problems, although we are just words in cyberspace, I feel I know many of you and your struggles are mine also. So I've thought a lot about the MIL/DIL dilemma, being both a MIL and a DIL myself. I have semi estrangement problems with my own MIL which caught me blindsighted when I married DH about 12 yrs ago, as I had been married before and this was NOT an issue (but Lord knows there were enough other issues). Because of the tumultuous relationship with my current MIL, I've analyzed it too death, making it walk on all fours like I do most things in my head.
I think I've written before, that I think there's a unique dynamic in the MIL/DIL relationship where it is a bit of a cat fight between two females vying for the same male. Think about it. The DIL comes face to face with the woman who pushed DH out of the womb, the woman who wiped and diapered his bottom and has had the most mysterious and exclusive relationship imaginable with her DH. Sometimes the problem lies with the MIL who wants to retain that intimate and exclusive role with the man, and sometimes the problem lies with the silly and insecure DIL who wants to catfight the MIL to get her pecking order grounded. Gosh forbid, sometimes (as in my case I admit) its both!
I don't think in previous generations the MIL/DIL relationship was ever even remotely expected or hoped to become chummy and maybe nothing more than respectfully aloof. This is how I remember growing up with my own DM, aunts, etc. MIL was always addressed as 'Mrs.' (this is how I address my MIL). She was visited and tended to, but the aunts were the chummy ones.
well, if any of that is true, maybe expectations and hopes have been unrealistic. I honestly think in your case it the DIL who just has never even bothered to know you at all, her mind was made up that you were to be delegated to the background of their new family's life before she married your DS. I don't think its YOU personally at all. She just doesn't want a MIL other than a remote one functions in times of need but in a detached manner.
There comes a time we just have to let go, and as KEYS GIRL says, 'DRIVE ON!' Gosh I love that. You aren't going to win this one. If I were you, I'd shift my focus over to just being a grandma and loving it. Its a new day, and I want you to be happy and stop the hemm
I hope you will forgive me for being presumptuous, as I may be completely wrong in all this, but its just my thoughts and we do well here brainstorming as we try to help each other. Its really the best we can do. Love to U
Lan Lady, I have to post script my previous reply, with I was thinking of you also. I think its the exact dynamic that Chelms has with her DIL. The harder you try to 'love her' and bond with her, the most she detests you. I hope and pray for the hour to come swiftly that she and your DS are out on their own, and you can begin to get some peace in your life, enjoying your GD.
chelms :
You are right , I do feel insecure at times , and often question my own choices in life ,
whereas before I was a very positive person . Not always , but when I dwell on all that has gone on before.
As I am at a funny age , ( like forever ) my friends and family just put my odd behaviour down to that .
That's why my DD is always saying to me to stay the person I was and don't change , so even though I am
unaware of my own change in personality , I guess it must be happening .
jdtm :
I love your description of our children/grandchildren , so true .Yet without us none of them would be here !
Shelby :
My DIL is civil enough towards me , there is no warmth there though , we never interact as you might say .
As Ruth would say respectfully aloof !
Ruth :
I know what you mean about the female v female , vying for attention of the male .
However my DS had long left home , at least 10 years when he met his DW . So him and I were
already detached to a certain extent , but yes I was his wing man if you like , only to be replaced , but that's
ok , I'm glad he has his soul mate .
My DD says ''Jog On '' ...and yes I will be jogging on , as soon as they jog on , and they are not in my face .
although I really don't mind them here as I get to see my GD every day .
I am soaking up her closeness like a sponge , to see me through the winter ..
thankyou ladies for your interest and care .......your friendship is a precious gift and I thank you .
Ruth, good point. I do think that sometimes either party can go into it not really wanting a relationship in the first place. I know my MIL would have problems with whoever DH married, not just me. Although it still hurts.
Quote from: lancaster lady on October 21, 2011, 09:45:14 AM
You are right , I do feel insecure at times , and often question my own choices in life ,
whereas before I was a very positive person . Not always , but when I dwell on all that has gone on before.
As I am at a funny age , ( like forever ) my friends and family just put my odd behaviour down to that .
That's why my DD is always saying to me to stay the person I was and don't change , so even though I am
unaware of my own change in personality , I guess it must be happening .
This made me cry, LL. I know I've changed; I often second guess myself, but I hate to hear you're doing likewise. I'm with dd on this one -- I've always admired your spunk & tenacity. Don't change for anybody. One day, your little gd may be ecstatic to hear she got that from her gm! : )
Aww Rose ....you are so sweet , and you know for all our agonies , they will shrug it off .
I am feeling like this because at the moment I can't escape them .
I know when have my own space again , I will regain my inner strength , the less I see
of them , the less I expect , if that makes sense . I suppose as we all live together , I perhaps think
that I should be involved in all their activities , which is stupid I know . So when I am not involved it makes me
feel abandoned in a way .
I have just realised that's why I feel the way I do , and only now as I am writing it down it has all clicked !
It really pays to write down your feelings to make sense of it all .
You should meet my DD Rose , she has all the spunk and tenacity for us all , and woe betide the person that tries
to pull the wool over her eyes !! lol
Post script for Pam ....you can chose your friends , but not your family ...!
I know you've got a lot to contend with now & will also have adjustments after they've left. Just try not to lose yourself in the process. And yes, what you said makes complete sense. I'm sorry you have to go through this, LL, you deserve much better. We can add dd to the list of WW. Good for her! : )
Quote from: Ruth on October 21, 2011, 08:01:05 AM
I don't think in previous generations the MIL/DIL relationship was ever even remotely expected or hoped to become chummy and maybe nothing more than respectfully aloof. This is how I remember growing up with my own DM, aunts, etc. MIL was always addressed as 'Mrs.' (this is how I address my MIL). She was visited and tended to, but the aunts were the chummy ones.
Thanks Ruth, after my experience with DIL I'll take respectfully aloof any time now. She is my first DIL, when my YS marries I think I will keep a friendly distance to his FDW and give this relationship time to grow. I just thought that this time round if I was chummy I would show her that I care, want her in the family etc. etc. You are so right when you say that I have to consider DIL being uncertain of herself. She most probably is and when I didn't follow her demands, she probably interpreted this as me putting her down. My DS could have done a lot to ease the situation but he was not sure about this. I wish we had a DS or SIL forum to get to know about their problems which must be there when they are caught between two women.
I think I have moved on now as I'm living away from them but there are days when I feel really down and no amount of pep talk helps because I miss my GC and I still can't quite understand how it could have gone so wrong when there was such a lot of good will. Those days are few and far between now, so I think I'm on the right healing track.
jdtm: I agree there are probably different expectations when it comes to GC, we are so besotted with them rightly though, I think =, but it may all be a bit much for DS and DIL.
LL: Enjoy your lovely GD while you can and as one of us said, one day your GD will be so proud of you and boast about having inherited some of your amazing character traits.
Thanks WW for listening, again. Great comfort even though it's all in cyber space. But even in this intangible space, voices can ring genuine.
One of my most frequent comments these days is, "Knowledge isn't power", and I mean that it seems like psychology used to teach us that just knowing what and why gave us power to fix it or move on, but I don't see it that way anymore. Some things just hurt, and that's the long and the short of it. No amount of insight is going to ease the pain of not seeing your g/c Chelms.
I'm with you, Ruth. Knowledge hurts me right now, at least where DS/DIL are concerned. Knowledge gives me no power because if I speak up or try to fix the situation I will lose everything. DH & I are the only ones who hurt or think something needs to be fixed, DS/DIL think all is well. Or at least DIL thinks so & DS is going along to keep peace in his home.
Quote from: Pen on October 22, 2011, 03:23:58 PM
Knowledge gives me no power because if I speak up or try to fix the situation I will lose everything. DH & I are the only ones who hurt or think something needs to be fixed, DS/DIL think all is well. Or at least DIL thinks so & DS is going along to keep peace in his home.
Giving this my best shot Pen, I think you are maybe just tapped out with this problem. Sick too death of it. Its just a catch 22, because '
ds/dil think all is well' so what do you need to fix? I don't know, maybe a better word would be 'change'??? because you so much want to change being relegated to inferior to the IL's, and you want to change that condescending and insulting attitude of the DIL, but nobody in this world can change that. You have to change the angst it creates inside of you. How? Gosh I wish I knew. I have to struggle with this type of thing much of my life. There has to be a means to regain your self respect and to detach enough from the need to be in the role you had hoped for with your DS/DIL, that much I do know. At least you and DH are a united front on it, so you aren't at war with each other. That's a plus. If I were fortunate enough to have that, I think I'd just stop it, either cut out contact with them to a minimum, or learn to respond back to the DIL in a more commanding way, don't be on the offensive. At least you could regain your self respect. I'm sorry Pen, I really tried to help here.... :-\
dear Pen ,
Do you think they continue with their attitude because the actually KNOW how it makes you feel ?
That they actually want to make you feel inferior etc .
If you won't voice your annoyance at their criticism , perhaps they don't know that their words are like
whip lashes .
Also do you know for a fact you will lose everything if you do speak out?
I understand your hesitance to speak out , however , you know me , and I would not for one instance take
what they are doling out to you .
Perhaps you can act as if their words mean nothing , and they bounce off your armour . Once they know you
are not reacting to their act , they might not chose to repeat it .
Do not take it any more !
They are chipping away at your own self worth and you are much more than that .
Giving you a chunk of my power and strength , because yes , I feel I can spare some today ....HOOORRAAH !
I like what Ruth is suggesting. However, there is another option that might work. How about you buy dil and ds an early xmas present?
You buy them a roasting pan and give them your recipe beautifully written on a card.
You take it to them at Thanksgiving, go ahead and cook the darn turkey at *their* house, but setting the expectation that they now have all they need to start a new tradition - and you are so *happy* for them.
In addition, you also give them the card that Ruth suggests, letting them know that you cannot continue as you have, but do it with .
Just my two-cents - give them a year to prepare - pass the torch!!!
I used to cook for my foo until I realized that they didn't really appreciate it. I hope your family appreciates waht you are doing for them.
Ooops, what happened to Gal/Brooklyn?
I must admit I shed a tear or two reading this long section and laughed a bit too.
Having grown children I tend to see things from the MIL perspective or the Mother view but I am a daughter as well and I can see both sides to a certain degree.
Holidays can be so tough can't they?
When I go to the time and expense of cleaning my house, getting everything prepared etc and buying/preparing a loving Thanksgiving or Christmas meal I guess I have an expectation that the effort will be appreciated --that they will love the food and the company and stories and that when all is done they will get off their fat duffs and do most of the cleanup. If they don't I end up feeling used and abused.
Isn't it sad that we cannot have family time without the thought that somehow SOMEONE will come through it feeling hurt. Hurt that they weren't invited, hurt that they don't get to pick when and where the celebration occurs, hurt that someone didn't think they could do the part they wanted most. Isn't it sad?
Holidays are supposed to be fun and exciting and involve the ones we love most and yet they seem to bring out the worst in all of us.
So sad.
I so agree flower. I used to spend so much time and feel so much love and excitement - expectations again....thinking the ones I loved would feel the 'specialness.' they didn't really. I gave up. I still will cook my children breakfast in bed because I enjoy doing that too. But I do it for me too. :-*