Hello wisewomen community, In need of other wisdom. My son's marriage to another girl was dissolved and within 9 m. he has a girlfriend. It will be 2yrs in Oct. they aren't married and my granddaughter will be l in Oct. This girl has made up lies, has redressed, reframed and conceived ways of making sure I am a target of her made of stuff. Til now I have blown off, not responded,
I have acted as if nothing was screwy never approached her about the lies, she finds ways of turning a simple loving situation into a nightmare, she found a way to make sure I was not a participant in the baby shower, and directed my son to pull me aside and ask why I did things to her that I didn't. I am at a loss, he steps aside, he thinks I can make friends with her. She has kicked me out of their house, 4x, not from what you would normally think. No angry words, at least from me, just crazy. He takes her side, by not responding like I count as a mother. My granddaughters bd is coming, there will be a party at the park, my son seems to think I will make up with her. I am really alone in this.
At this point I there is no honesty, at all! and I have not really approached her directly, my experience of her is nothing but dishonesty.. Im not even sure I have described the situation..
I am just at a loss. Your comments would be welcomed
Welcome, Triplelace. There are a lot of women here who can relate to your story, and I know they'll be replying soon. I'm sorry you're going through this confusion and hurt.
Welcome - I'm so sorry you are up against such tough stuff. We can't do a thing about another person's dishonesty. They are how they are. All we can do it to learn how best to deal with them (or not.) It can be a terribly painful process as you have described.
As soon as you get a chance, start reading the many posts here with circumstances very similar to yours. It will give you a chance to get acquainted with a few of us. There is a wealth of sharing and caring here.
We ask each new poster to go to Open Me First and read the Forrum Agreement to be sure this site is a fit for you. Sending love...
Hi Triplelace-
Are they planning to marry?
Your son's GF sounds a little like my DIL. My son tried for a while in the beginning to get us to work things out and we would patch things up but the relationship was so brittle, it never really stuck. Before I ever got to know her she thought I didn't like her. I have a mental list of all the things I done for her and given her - the sorts of things I would give and do for other family members that I love.
Frankly, her behavior is a little bizarre to me at times. I've been told here that one person's bizarre is another person's normal, but this woman seems to be living in an alternate reality where I'm an enemy. Her last email to me said "go away, leave me alone, go find something else to do with your time" so I have left her alone.
I'm lucky to have a good relationship with my son so I build on that. He doesn't know how to fix he situation so I don't put him in the middle. That's the only advice I have since I'm fumbling my way through this. Just build on the good things and don't make things worse and ignore the rest.
And who knows, maybe they won't marry?
Thank you for your reply, your suggestion is good. Having a granddaughter in the pic kind of
complicates it, my son said his GF is the gatekeeper, she's the one I have to go through, with my only mistake being I am a mom. This GF is the total opposite of his last one, who wanted me involved sometimes too much. I could go on just waiting for them to break up realizing if she decided to act like she wanted me around the little one, she would just as quickly remove the little one.. and there's no doubt in my mind she wants me at a distance and not involved. Just a waste to even talk about it
i guess.
Hello Triplelace and Welcome ....
I could have written your story a year ago !
Perhaps not to the letter , as i have never been put out of the house !
I am surprised your son stood by and let this happen , as I hope mine would have never stood by and let me be thrown out !
However I was never getting to see my Gd and things got out of control ., he said I would have to work it out with his GF before I could see my GD.
I took the bull by the horns and met her head on .We eventually cleared the air , and you would be amazed how things
ended up .
Your DS is taking the same stance as mine , by not getting involved , and letting the women scrap it out .
Seeing my GD meant too much to me to leave things as they were .
My advice is do approach her directly and ask her what the problem is , you are the babies grandmother and have a right
to see her . Your son should see this and want you in her life .
I had to do this , rather than stand in the side lines and accept the slim pickings that were offered .
That is the alternative I'm afraid .
Perhaps not for everyone , but it worked for me ....good luck .
ps , my son and his partner married 3 weeks ago !
Thank you Lancaster Lady
I'm glad to hear your relationship was healed. It is generally my style to handle issues directly.,
so I'm glad to know it worked in your case. I am inspired by that. My son suggested I drop by one
Saturday, he said he'd be there.. (but obviously not as support). I did write her an email that said
"It feels strange not seeing my granddaughter grow up. I would like to make plans within the
next few weeks to stop by and visit. My preference is to come by with your
invitation. When would be good for you? Respectfully,"
I am waiting to get a response. Take it from there I guess. I'll write in the updates. This seems like a great sight. Thanks again.
Welcome, TL - I have modified your post a bit. We don't use proper names or ask others where they live. Sometimes they volunteer it but for many anonymity is vital.
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Welcome Tripleplace :)
It sounds like going through gatekeeper DIL isn't working. Perhaps she doesn't want to be the gatekeeper? I know it's a common complaint from DILs that their DH will not make the plans himself, he leaves it to DIL who doesn't think it's her responsibility. A lot of married couples today do "your FOO, your responsibility." It sounds like DS and DIL haven't quite figured out how they're going to handle it.
In any case, I think DIL is a dead end for you. Since you do have a good relationship with DS it would be much better, IMO, to make plans with him. Not up in the air plans, but real plans. He can do it.
Good luck
Hello triplelace,
I certainly had difficulty with my dil and not because I didn't try. Looking back, I realize there was no connecting with her. She does not have friends, has never had. I feel sorry for her inability to really love others and likely because she does not like herself. We all probably suffer from that to some degree, but she is not very self-reflective and projects her unhappiness onto others.
What I am trying to say is that there was no "winning" with her. There was nothing I could have said or done to please her, or to make her understand that I was trying to love her.
Put your best foot forward, be ready to maybe hear things you don't want to hear, and then remember that you get to chose too. Perhaps this is an unhealthy situation for you, and you might need to distance to heal yourself.
Good luck to you. There is never a "right" answer - we all just do the best we can.
thanks for the advise, it helps me not feel so alone and like it's my fault or I should be doing something to change it. I am on introspective and have take inventories always... this time
it is not me.
Since my son, thinks there is something I can do, (whatever it is he just doesn't think it should
be anything he needs to do or say), I will see if she responds to email and if not I will show up
and make one in person attempt...when he's there so there is no made up stories to go round.
Thanks again, I really don't believe she is capable of change, (at least in the near future) as
since there was no action I took to turn her...it has just been her agenda not to have me
around, baby or not. from the beginning.
Thank you again for all your support
Triplelace
Tripleplace, do you know why DS is pushing you to contact DIL? Why he can't do it? It seems very odd that he cannot make plans with his own mother.
My DS (i'm assuming this means my son?) has told me there is nothing he's going to do it's between
me and her. So in essence the only way to see my granddaughter is for me to somehow get his GF
to change her mind about me. To do this I need to talk to her.
What I told my DS is I would only go over to their home if he was there. This is due to the fact that she makes up stories. If my DS isn't there GF story will no way reflect what really goes on. I really do not like being around them anymore because of they're always pulling something out of the hat that I've supposedly done, (it's hard to explain, she creates trouble out thin air doesn't really need anything substantial to work with..) , The result of experiencing my DS and his GF the past 2yrs has really made me not want to be too involved with them, it's negative and not healthy. I don't believe they're healthy either, but I'd rather them targeting each other than both of them stirring things up with me.
My son moved to the other coast with his dad when he was nine yrs old. I saw him at Christmas
and some yrs a couple of wks in the summers. So, I know though my heart loves him, I know we are not real close no son of mine who was close to me would have followed his GF suggestion to tell me to leave when I because he and his GF were going to have family night.
But obviously I don't have that relationship with him. I have had a bit of a shocking awareness that
he is not the young man I thought he was, and I even think he and his GF deserve each other.
That might come off as cold, but I think he has some life lessons to learn. And I really don't think he
respects me enough to listen to me. It is what it is.
He and I aren't at odds with each other, I just don't see us as close, he filters what he tells me and
he's lied to me over and over in front of GF. It's been painful, but for him to be in the relationship he is with this GF, he's in pain somewhere too.
All I want to achieve right now, is to occasionally visit my granddaughter and not get kicked out.
Hope this helps to clarify and thank you
I sincerely hope your expectations are met regarding granddaughter visits. Many of us have had to give ours expectations up. Sending love...
Thank you Luise
After we made peace I backed off and told them I would wait for an invitation to visit . After a while the invitations came . Our situations are not identical but similar.My DIL decided to use attachment parenting and told me after my GD was a year old , something alien to me but her choice . I hope you reach a solution as I know how painful not seeing a gc can be .
Dear Lancaster Lady:
By definition: The long-range vision of Attachment Parenting is to raise children who will become adults with a highly developed capacity for empathy and connection. It eliminates violence as a means for raising children, and ultimately helps to prevent violence in society as a whole.
One would assume a relationship with a grandmother would impart a connection of love which would support this theory! My DL would never go for this, all I've heard (periodically) is how they need a break from the baby, (Although I am not the break). I see my DL has distanced from her motherhood relationship, from the beginning it is more I want the baby is an interruption of her life. Which is probably normal, but it just amazed me as the baby isn't a year old yet.
Tripleplace, thank you, yes that does clarify quite a bit. It's been my experience and observations on the in law boards that it is virtually impossible for a DIL and MIL to have a good relationship when there isn't a good relationship between the DS and MIL.
In my experience, I felt put in the middle of DH and MIL. MIL directed her energies at me quite a bit and I think in effort to avoid examining her poor relationship with DS. In short, I could have never given her what she really wanted and I was the handy scapegoat for both DH and MIL. My child was also thrown in the middle which I had to put a stop to by pulling away.
For DH, it was a lot easier to direct MIL to me and MIL, by all accounts, found it easier to blame me. I'm not saying you're blaming your DIL but it does seem like a similar dynamic going on. It kind of reads as both you and DS are avoiding the big elephant in the room and focusing on other people or issues. In my experience, it doesn't work. My suggestion would be to work on your relationship with DS and things should naturally fall into place.
Dear Pam:
I appreciate your response. But disagree with "naturally falling into place" I had that experience with my lst DIL. Yes, but this one sees my DS as loving her more if he corroborates with her, it is a spiritual illness and if being loving and accepting her (at least initially) and not giving her back what she has given, has not done anything but maybe surprise her, It has gotten to the point where I just need to keep away from the negativity as best I can. My DS will always come back to me when he is in trouble and if that's the only way he needs me in his life, that's his choice.
I think I need to let each of them know through my actions, I am not going to get involved in the negativity, and if it continues, well there is always a corresponding reaction to every action taken.
Thanks again.
Welcome TL. Many of us have come to realize, even though our DIL's or in your case, GF are difficult to get along with, the problem is truly with our DS's. When they will not step up and take a stand on behalf of their FOO or the other way, take a stand with their DIL/GF when the FOO is being the pills, it leaves us in a no-win situation. When the DIL/GF is not interested in that relationship, there is nothing you can do.
Dear Pooh:
Thank you for your reply, I mostly feel the same way you do. I will ask GF seek next to make a claim to see my granddaughter, it will go the way that it goes. She will probably respond in a few days..
to the email I sent.. if it is negative and fault finding (which I expect)..then I will drive over to their home during a time I know my DS will be there, if that fails (and it in all probability will)...then I have at least made an effort and expect that the only time I will see my granddaughter is if they split up.
I am enjoying all this discourse, fabulous site. I will update later
Lovingly to all
Quote I will ask GF seek next to make a claim to see my granddaughter, it will go the way that it goes. She will probably respond in a few days.. to the email I sent.. if it is negative and fault finding (which I expect)..then I will drive over to their home during a time I know my DS will be there, if that fails (and it in all probability will)....
I hope that by going to their home when DS is there, that means
after DS has invited you there. I wouldn't invite myself to their home right now. I really wouldn't stop by uninvited and unannounced. I would think that could almost certainly make more trouble than it helps.
I figured out for me, that one of the guidelines that help me not regret what I've done, is to stay without good manners. Even if I want to do something rude, (like yell when someone's being ridiculous) I don't want the situation someone else creates, put
me in a way that I do something I know is a violation of basic civility. Someone else is not going to make me become less than who I am.
I would let them know I'm open, my door is open. But I wouldn't walk through anyone else's door without being asked to.
(If I miscontrued the meaning about driving over their home, then this wouldn't be apply and consider it irrelevant. )
QuoteI know we are not real close no son of mine who was close to me would have followed his GF suggestion to tell me to leave when I because he and his GF were going to have family night.
Was this one of the four times the girlfriend kicked you out?
Can I asked if they had invited you to come over, and how long the visits went on, before they let you know it was time to end the visit?
I am wondering if the invitations having both a planned start and end time might be a helpful approach. This way you'd all know what to expect about ending a visit.
I know this story seems all one sided and I can assure you her story would never and never does
resemble mine. But I have no reason to make up anything.
I am talking about coming in and 5' minutes (ok maybe 6') later, she sat across from me just staring then took my son into kitchen and he came out with the announcement. She is bent on not having the mom around period. Has been since the first week I met her. It was startling at first, because she
GF can be charming, but she's been intent on coming between mom and son from the start. Actually, after my first DL (one he married) this was a complete turnaround.
The situation is volatile on her part...I should have a part in this,,,then I could at least apologize for something. This would be easier.
I believe everything you say. I don't think you are making up anything. I mean this from my heart. I wasn't clear if the visits you mentioned were planned and you were invited over by DS or his GF type of visits, or just drop ins.
Drop ins can be really tough on some people and they simply can't relax with guests unless they are prepared for company. It's not good etiquette for the reason the people who are dropped in on tend to feel anxious, and like they have to drop everything. I am not personally comfortable with having people over without notice, even my best friend or own mother. I want to be able to keep my house less than guest ready without worrying.
If this is something about the visits that's going on, (though I'm still not sure) it could be changed. My thought is if it is, applying etiquette might improve the environment for you when you're with them. I am trying to think of little possible ways to ease the stress when you're together, so it's more pleasant for DS, his GF and you. So you can get to spend more time with your grandchild.
(Like I said, if unannounced, or uninvited drop ins aren't a part of this dynamic, this suggestion would be irrelevant.) But if it is, the good news is that there's big room for improvement.
I appreciate where you are coming from. One month before I my boss lost the account, as an
apartment manager, I moved my DS and GF in on a special deal. They lived 2 doors down from me.
Neither of us had restrictions on when to go to each others home.. Let's face it, she was screaming at me the morning I (w/o help including hers) moved in their refrigerator. I had done them a favor, otherwise they would have had it difficult.
Thanks again, I can't wait til she answers my email. We shall see ;)
You had mentioned driving by their place, so it sounds like that two doors down situation has changed since back then. It sounds likes GF may have preferred at least some restrictions on each other's homes, perhaps even back then (screaming when you came over).
I don't see where you could go wrong using basic etiquette about visits as a guideline going forward. I understand that may seem too formal, to how the relationship has been. But based on what's not working about the current situation, I think that may have a better result for you than favors.
I agree with your thoughts on etiquette, if that was an issue for her then I am sure she would
have brought it up!
I am not someone that drops in and never goes, it's not about that. My son just told me to come over any saturday around 2 and they both will be there. Just to drop by, and talk to her whilst he is there.
But,,,,,instead I wrote her an email, (seen in my earlier posts) asking for a good time to drop by.
Quote if that was an issue for her then I am sure she would
have brought it up!
My thought was that her telling you they were going to have family night, i.e., not a good time for a visit, might have been an
indirect way of her bringing that up. Since you mention the other kick-outs weren't from words of anger, maybe it was in the same vein of not a good time to have someone drop in, I'm not sure. It sure would be simpler if she'd come out and ask you to call before coming over.
I think its great to tell DIL you plan to wait for an invite at a time that's good for them too. I really hope they do respond to you soon. If an invitation is not forthcoming soon, however, I still wouldn't just drive by and drop in, without calling first. That was what caught my eye and prompted me to find out a little more.
Good luck to you!
Triplelace - maybe you should consider getting together with your relatives at a public place to do something rather than go to their home. Do you have a place with some nice scenery where you could go for a walk with the GB? Or some public performance you could all go and enjoy? I wonder if maybe you were doing something together other than sitting on a couch trying to make conversation if everyone would relax more.
thank you Doe
Hi again ........the thing is , perhaps your son didnt mention to his partner he told you to drop round on a Saturday . Tends to be a communication problem sometimes , what is an issue for us gals is not a problem for the guys. Until you two clear the air , there will always be an atmosphere which is unpleasant ......please wait for that invite from her , I know you want to see your grandchild , but she's the mom and like it or not , its her terms I'm afraid . Your son will have his input sure , but usually she will win every time .
Your right. Since my son is ignorant about these things, I have to at least show up once, with or
without her invite. T his will demonstrate to him that I have an interest in seeing my GD.
I'm with you TL , just be.careful not to alienate her further , as your son will side with her ......its a difficult path us MIL 's take and hard to get it right, good luck .
thanks, your advise always makes sense. Have a great day
I would strongly suggest not just showing up. Despite what your son said.
Based on what I've read you didn't have the closest history with your son. DIL may feel she doesn't owe you much in terms of a relationship. But everyone deserves common decency.
I would write her a very nicely worded e-mail, explaining that you are wondering if you could come by on such and such date at such and such time, and that you love them all and would really like to make the effort of improving your relationship with her.
Deserving common decency and getting it, unfortunately, can be worlds apart. Sending love...
Triple
I know how awful is wanting to see grandchildren and not being able to see them. I was there long time ago. I never visited uninvited though, that was out of the question. My heart was torn...but I chose "Me", my self-respect, my peace of mind, and my self-worth.
Dont vist ever...unvited please, dont get hurt anymore. I once heard a saying, something like this "The first time, I didnt know, it wasnt my fault......the second time, I knew better....it was my fault".
Things are totally different know....but I had to step back....and move on with my life....then they came back to me. And for that I am grateful. They come to visit at least oncee or twice a week (normally week-eds..plus I babysit every Friday).
You can do it.... dont push... Its the not the way..
Hope the best for you.
Love
Dear Nana
Thank you for your thoughts
Nana is a peach!
The whole "my son wants me to work it out with his GF" reminds me of a magazine article I read some time ago. It said (I don't know the source of the info, mind you) that the number one thing women want from men is for men to know what women want. The number one thing men want from women is for women to want nothing.
I don't know if it's having this idea in my head that makes me see things or I'm really seeing this, but the part about men wanting women to want nothing seems evident in a lot of relationships. It seems men don't want to deal with relationships at all - I guess they consider that "women's work" and gender roles are still entrenched in this area. If his GF/W has a problem with his parents, she should deal with it and leave him alone. If his parents have a problem with his GF/W, they should deal with it on their own and leave him out of it. I see this even in very healthy marriages that have good relationships with both ILs. Every family has its own brand of crazy so there will always be little disappointments and hurts. Over and over I see wives/mothers left to solve problems that the husband/son could fix in two shakes of a lamb's tail. If men dealt with problems at work the way they deal with problems in their families, they would be fired immediately. So many family rifts could be avoided if the males in the family would step up to plate early on in the game.
I'll get off my soapbox now. Good luck to everyone trying to solve family problems when key members in that family refuse to do anything.
I like your soapbox! ;D
I agree. I have said after finding this forum one of the big things it made me see was that my DS could probably change our situation if he wanted to.
Thank you herbalscapes.
I think that if my son's father was still alive, he wouldn't have let my son drop the
ball like he has.
But then again, I never ever thought my son could have said or done some of the responses
I have experienced with him with this GF
I think it's futile to respond this GF email in that there's only ONE point of view and it's hers.
At this point I think she's a little insane.
If they side with their Mom , they get it from their partner .
If they side with their partner , their Mom suffers ........
That's why they stay on the fence , it's a lose lose situation !
Yes, all good
It feels like this:
if someone says you started the fire that burned down the neighbors house in your neighbors presence (and you didn't)
So, you say you did not start the fire. But this someone insists you started the fire and she's good friends with the neighbor like you.
Now she is asking you to apologize and fess up!
What do you do?
I'm backing out.
It's takes two to make an argument ......I agree back off.
I love to read sayings like: 'The number one thing women want from men is for men to know what women want. The number one thing men want from women is for women to want nothing.'
Apropos of nothing, we have a saying where I live (Retirement Center): 'When a woman loses her husband, she recovers. When a man loses his wife, he remarries.'
I have found the less I say the better. It should have been a red flag for me when my then future DIL buddied up to me quickly, asking questions about how DH & raised our kids, etc. What I said, thinking she was showing interest and love, was twisted and turned against me. She blew innocent things way out of proportion and put a spin on our family life that got our DS thinking that he'd been raised by insane losers.
I agree, back off and do not say anything that isn't generic. It's sad that some of us can't be ourselves with our own family members anymore, but that's how it is.
I had to chuckle at "insane losers". My husband and I are do-it-yourselfers and are lucky to have neighbors who understand our eccentricities. DS and DIL are so conservative in comparison with their lives. He's definitely not modeling after us and I think she considers us a little loopy.
If we weren't all a little loopy....we'd be boring
My Mom would talk about 'seasons' in your life. To the loopy ones, were you ALWAYS loopy? Or did you evolve into your loopiness?
I'm saying this because my DB and SIL are going through a loopy-mid-life crisis. They (especially SIL) used to be ULTRA-conservative. No nail-polish, no make-up, no hair colour, no contacts, not much more than hands and face showing skin. NOW, they're NUDISTS! And SIL wears contacts and make-up, colours her hair and her nails. They're just 180 degrees from how they were. Thankfully, they're both equally "into" it, and this is a new direction they're going down TOGETHER.
So maybe your DS and DIL's are at a season in their life where it's "better" to be conservative. Maybe they'll break out of it. Apparently, 40 is the age where your "give a hoot" just stops working. And when they stop giving a hoot, maybe they'll loosen up a bit.
No way could I be a nudist! That would require me to shave more often!
I'm afraid I was always different. You know what they say, "One person's loopy is another person's how-could-you-do-it-any-other-way?" !
I have to say I have always been what I like to refer to as "different" too. Not different in "she's out there" but different in "Oohh look...that sign says there is a bush in the shape of a smurf 60 miles from here....let's go!" I'm sure there are people that love me because I'm that way....and I'm sure there are people that wish I was more normal.
I've read before that people change drastically in about 7 years time. Just like how a lot of people redecorate their entire house every 7 years. I know I look like a different person than I was 7 years ago, not just physically but in what I do as well.
And I agree, quirks are funny. One of my issues with my in laws is the seriousness and be perfect at all costs. No fun in that
Yes Pam...we change gradually. Sometimes I find myself saying "I am not even the shadow of what I use to be when I was young". I liked challenges and audacity was one of my traits...I am more fearful now....and I like security. Even my taste changed. I used to loved certain things that I dont like anymore. And on the contrary, things I did not like, I like now. So life is dynamic... always changing....and so are we. Sometimes for better, or for worse lol. That is why when you meet a friend that you hadnt seen in years, you might feel the person is not the same person she was. But Pam, I think that our essence and values are still there.
Love
Scoop - I became a nudist at age 60...alone! (I wonder if that means my mid-life crisis was delayed? No, I remember that, and you probably don't want to know what i did then!LOL)
WoW luisa you were, i love it
Dear Pen:
I think our DIL's (GF in my case) could be identical twins.