Hello ladies!!
I have a couple questions and I'd like some real feedback. Is it hard to except the truth or hear a different perspective from your DIL/MIL? Are you living up the the expectations of your DIL/MIL if so why or why not? Do you think they have unrealistic expectations? To MILs specifically, Can you appreciate that someone is different than you in many ways and not feel slighted when your expectations aren't met? Can MILs/DILs admit that they are partially responsible for the rift in their relationships with DILs/MILs?? Do MILs/DILs have "entitlement" issues like "DIL *should* like me or MIL *has* to do what I say.
I know this may seem like a question already answered, but I'm curious about these questions. I've always wondered what are some MILs thinking when they realize they aren't as 'loved' by their DIL as they may think they should be and vice versa.
Here's my answers...As far as hearing another perspective from MIL or her personal truth, no, I can honestly say I don't want to hear anything of the sort. If I wanted to know what she thought, I'd ask and I don't. But I don't ask because of disrespect for her wealth of knowledge, I'm sure she knows something. I don't ask simply because I don't want to to think she can begin to "tell" me things without my asking. I really don't know what her expectations of me were, I never asked, she never told. She definitely isn't living up to mine. If she were we'd get along a lot better. I always knew she was different and I could appreciate that because her son was proof that even though she did things I would NEVER do with my children, her son is still a respectable man. Too bad she can't seem to think the same about me. I think I had unrealistic expectations because I was expecting her to not be interested in me at all. I expected her to say hi and bye and that was it. It was a HUGE shock when she tried to act like a mother and friend to me. I know I'm half responsible for the rift between us, we both have crapped all over the situation so she no more responsible than I am, we both are at fault. As far as entitlement, I have only felt entitled to respect as a woman, and as a mother otherwise I didn't want anything else from her.
I hope to know what some MILs really think about this, not just why I'm wrong for answering they way I did.
Thanks in advance ladies!!!
MarriedChick, I appreciate how you've phrased your questions. It really does seem as though you want honest answers from DILs/MILs. Everyone will have different opinions, no doubt, since we don't all share the exact same experiences/backgrounds.
Speaking just for me, I can appreciate that DIL is different. I also know her FOO is very important to her, and I never expected to be equal in her eyes. However, I do expect to be treated with dignity and common courtesy like I do with any person I meet. I feel that DIL's expectation that we would disappear from DS's life is very unrealistic; we're not going anywhere, much to her chagrin. I also expected our relationship with DS to change, but I never thought we'd be cut off to the extent we are now.
Never hoped to be BFFs, but did hope she'd accept us and our differences as much as we've accepted her and hers. We don't have a great feeling about the future; we know we'll be the GPs the FGC don't know very well, even though DS claims he'll make sure that doesn't happen.
I had a really good relationship with my DIL. My number #1 rule was to never try to be her mother. Instead I saw myself more as a role model/mentor, someone with some years of experience in being a wife and parent without all the emotional baggage that so often accompanies a parent/child relationship. Experience that hopefully would help her make informed decisions. If she took my advice I felt glad that I helped. If she didn't I was at least content that she had heard me. My approach was not to tell her what she should do, but rather share my experiences. What I did, why I did it and how it worked out. Mostly I shared my mistakes and failures. After all those are what teach us our greatest lessons. By showing her I was far from perfect it allowed her to make mistakes along the way without feeling judged or ashamed. It's very hard to live up to the expectations of someone who considers themselves perfect.
I really didn't have any expectations regarding my DIL. She was the person my son fell in love with. All I really expected was for her to love him as much as he loved her. I just figured if she loved my son she would want him to be happy and having a good relationship with his family would be part of that.
I think generally, it is unwise to start off any relationship with preset notions or expectations. Expectations are very hard to live up to and more often than not only lead to disappointment.
Dear DDM,
THANK YOU!
Very good advice!
DDM - did it work out in that you all have a good relationship?
My mistake was expecting my DIL to be just like my son and immediately love me unconditionally...as I would her...don't think I tried to be a mom to her, but wanted to be friends, and perhaps a mentor at some point...however, I had way to many expectations, and refused to understand, that she wasn't who I thought she was...and that wasn't a bad thing, I just refused to see her as she is, which is the only way she knows how to be, which makes us all very signficant human beings...
I now have no expectations at all other then to be friends....and I understand and respect her feelings...which come first and foremost...and always intend to ask her how she feels about me doing this or that...I want to know...even if she feels I'm wrong....it's ok...I'm not perfect...won't ever be...
hopefully I will be able to learn a lot from her....
DDM...outstanding post....!!!!!
"...did it work out in that you all have a good relationship?"
I guess if the answer was 'Yes", I would not have found this forum!
My son and DIL separated just after a years into the marriage. I tried to talk to her when they first split and got a very harsh and hurtful response. She told me some things that were very personal and inappropriate about their relationship. I know she wanted me to take her side. Unable to, I remained neutral. It just made her all the more angry. Since then things have been pretty quiet between us. I would still like to have a relationship with her. She is my GS's mother and I really don't have a problem with her. The few attempts I have made have not turned out well so for now I am biding my time. I plan to try again once the divorce (nasty) is settled and over.
All you can do is be responsible for your own actions and feelings.
DDM, it sounds like your relationship with DIL was good during the marriage, and I'm sorry it didn't work out. While the marriage was intact, you didn't do anything to mess up your relationship with her, and she was willing to listen with respect and acceptance. Not all of us are so lucky :(
I have a DIL who wants me to disappear, so even though I am not a demanding buttinsky, there's nothing to build a relationship on. The one time she asked me about my childrearing experiences I naively thought she was interested; instead, she turned my stories around to validate her decision to keep us away from FGC. Since I'm "less than perfect" she doesn't want anything to do with me.
Quote from: cremebrulee on April 28, 2010, 03:51:45 PM
My mistake was expecting my DIL to be just like my son and immediately love me unconditionally...as I would her...don't think I tried to be a mom to her, but wanted to be friends, and perhaps a mentor at some point...however, I had way to many expectations, and refused to understand, that she wasn't who I thought she was...and that wasn't a bad thing, I just refused to see her as she is, which is the only way she knows how to be, which makes us all very significant human beings...
I now have no expectations at all other then to be friends....and I understand and respect her feelings...which come first and foremost...and always intend to ask her how she feels about me doing this or that...I want to know...even if she feels I'm wrong....it's OK...I'm not perfect...won't ever be...
hopefully I will be able to learn a lot from her....
DDM...outstanding post....!!!!!
These answers are all wonderful! Thank you for your honest answers.
Creme, I really appreciate your honesty. That sounds like how my MIL was about me. She just knew that since her son's friends all loved her, of course I would too love her unconditionally. Even though none of his friends has had to deal with her on this level. When I didn't love her as she had planned, some thing became "wrong" with me. That was the insulting part. She wanted love from me and no basic relationship had been established, she was essentially a stranger to me trying to "make" me like her. She also didn't want to see who I was because I wasn't who she wanted me to be. I thought that was weird seeing as though she didn't know me at all and never really tried, just expected me to love her.
Ladies,
I find it very commendable that you all wanted to be something like a mentor with more experience to her. What if you DIL already has people in her life that she considers role models? Do you think your expectations of being her role model might have marred the relationship? Do you think it was presumptuous of you to think she even wanted you as a mentor? What if she wants to learn on her own and make her own mistakes without you there to correct her, for lack of better words? Can you really handle just being a mother to your son, grandparent to your GC and an associate to your DIL and not her mentor? I'm wondering if any of these things could have turned the relationship you had with your DIL down the wrong path, not saying its all your fault, but that you played a role in the failure.
I definately played a role in the failure, but at the time, blamed her, and said some very nasty things about her, which I don't know if I'll ever be able to forgive myself for that....I thought she hated me, she thought I hated her...plus I overstepped boundaried big time....
When my son was growing up...our home was the home that everyone hung out at, and I was used to many kids being around on weekends...one even had his own room in our home. It was a very happy time, plus I love kids....always have...and I expected DIL to feel the same way about me right from the beginning....poor thing, I really pushed myself on her....and acted like some I-rate mom right away....how dare I do that? How dare I walk in HER home and act anything but a guest....I am so angry with myself now...and when I did those things, she acted out in anger and hurt...and I don't blame her one iota...for being angry, I'm just so sorry I hurt her, and really wish we had discussed this a long time ago...feelings got hurt, then anger, then retaliation....I can't imagine how nervous she was when I'd come to visit...especially after reading other DIL's posts....
Anger and hurt makes people do and say things that are cruel...we both kept trying, however, not understaning each other's intentions and personality, we both kept thinking that we hated each other and we were doing these things to hurt each other or to intentionally drive a wedge between my son and us...and this went on for 12 years...the ache and pain we all went thru was at times unbearable, b/c none of us wanted this...the fights my son and I had were horrible...and all because we misunderstood each other...
I knew my DIL had a sad and unproductive childhood and I wanted her to know she was loved and accepted and make things and life better for her...I wanted to give her structure, and loyalty....and to love her dearly...to let her know that I'd never leave her....no matter what....however, when things started happening, it was awful...and I'm certain that she saw my behavior as controlling....
I remember my mother in law, expecting me to call her mom...I didn't want to...I didn't know her and she did the same thing to me, as I did to my DIL...expected way to much way to soon, you'd think I would have realized, however, I was so excited to have a daughter in law...a daughter...so overjoyed, that I didn't stop to realize, she wasn't my daughter, and I had to give her time, to know me.
there is an instant bond of love, when you hold your grand child for the first time...and that is how I felt about my DIL...I loved her instantly, b/c my son chose her...and I don't believe DIL's understand that...I was so hurt when she rejected me...so utterly devestated....and she wasn't rejecting me, she was actually trying to just establish some boundaries....I'm just so very sorry for all of this...so much time wasted....when we talked about this whole situation on the phone and she said to me, I want you as a friend, I want you to be part of our family....it was all I could do to keep from bawling. I could not believe she wanted that to...
Thank God...praise the Lord, I was able to put my own feelings aside and view hers and give her credit where credit was due...I am so so sorry I misunderstood her and said horrible things about her....out of stupid misunderstandings....oh, my how things escalated out of the ordinary....and I know she was hurting just as much as I was...I just was to darn stubborn and hurt to realize it....and when you can put those past things in the past, and let them go, that is when I started to see her point of view. It took a very long time and a lot of forums....even DIL's on other forums yelling at me...when they didn't see my side of it, it was awful....I wasn't ready...and you have to be ready, to assum ownership in this...otherwise, it won't work...stupid human pride, what a sin....
Quote from: MarriedChick09 on April 29, 2010, 04:38:57 AM
Ladies,
I find it very commendable that you all wanted to be something like a mentor with more experience to her. What if you DIL already has people in her life that she considers role models? Do you think your expectations of being her role model might have marred the relationship? Do you think it was presumptuous of you to think she even wanted you as a mentor? What if she wants to learn on her own and make her own mistakes without you there to correct her, for lack of better words? Can you really handle just being a mother to your son, grandparent to your GC and an associate to your DIL and not her mentor? I'm wondering if any of these things could have turned the relationship you had with your DIL down the wrong path, not saying its all your fault, but that you played a role in the failure.
MarriedChick, I am one MIL who did not want to be a mentor. My DIL has a very strong FOO and doesn't need any input from me. She is very smart, accomplished, and confident. In my case, DIL will not allow us to be involved in any way, as associate or otherwise. She is "cutting DS from the herd." As I've said elsewhere, my role was to be a salmon; spawn and die.
I know I'm not the only one with a DIL who has this agenda, but I don't hear from DILs who freely 'fess up to this attitude.
Quote from: cremebrulee on April 29, 2010, 05:16:17 AM
I definately played a role in the failure, but at the time, blamed her, and said some very nasty things about her, which I don't know if I'll ever be able to forgive myself for that....I thought she hated me, she thought I hated her...plus I overstepped boundaried big time....
When my son was growing up...our home was the home that everyone hung out at, and I was used to many kids being around on weekends...one even had his own room in our home. It was a very happy time, plus I love kids....always have...and I expected DIL to feel the same way about me right from the beginning....poor thing, I really pushed myself on her....and acted like some I-rate mom right away....how dare I do that? How dare I walk in HER home and act anything but a guest....I am so angry with myself now...and when I did those things, she acted out in anger and hurt...and I don't blame her one iota...for being angry, I'm just so sorry I hurt her, and really wish we had discussed this a long time ago...feelings got hurt, then anger, then retaliation....I can't imagine how nervous she was when I'd come to visit...especially after reading other DIL's posts....
Anger and hurt makes people do and say things that are cruel...we both kept trying, however, not understaning each other's intentions and personality, we both kept thinking that we hated each other and we were doing these things to hurt each other or to intentionally drive a wedge between my son and us...and this went on for 12 years...the ache and pain we all went thru was at times unbearable, b/c none of us wanted this...the fights my son and I had were horrible...and all because we misunderstood each other...
I knew my DIL had a sad and unproductive childhood and I wanted her to know she was loved and accepted and make things and life better for her...I wanted to give her structure, and loyalty....and to love her dearly...to let her know that I'd never leave her....no matter what....however, when things started happening, it was awful...and I'm certain that she saw my behavior as controlling....
I remember my mother in law, expecting me to call her mom...I didn't want to...I didn't know her and she did the same thing to me, as I did to my DIL...expected way to much way to soon, you'd think I would have realized, however, I was so excited to have a daughter in law...a daughter...so overjoyed, that I didn't stop to realize, she wasn't my daughter, and I had to give her time, to know me.
there is an instant bond of love, when you hold your grand child for the first time...and that is how I felt about my DIL...I loved her instantly, b/c my son chose her...and I don't believe DIL's understand that...I was so hurt when she rejected me...so utterly devestated....and she wasn't rejecting me, she was actually trying to just establish some boundaries....I'm just so very sorry for all of this...so much time wasted....when we talked about this whole situation on the phone and she said to me, I want you as a friend, I want you to be part of our family....it was all I could do to keep from bawling. I could not believe she wanted that to...
Thank God...praise the Lord, I was able to put my own feelings aside and view hers and give her credit where credit was due...I am so so sorry I misunderstood her and said horrible things about her....out of stupid misunderstandings....oh, my how things escalated out of the ordinary....and I know she was hurting just as much as I was...I just was to darn stubborn and hurt to realize it....and when you can put those past things in the past, and let them go, that is when I started to see her point of view. It took a very long time and a lot of forums....even DIL's on other forums yelling at me...when they didn't see my side of it, it was awful....I wasn't ready...and you have to be ready, to assum ownership in this...otherwise, it won't work...stupid human pride, what a sin....
WOW, Creme you give me hope!! I have never read on this forum or any other blog a response from a MIL that was as profound as this response. You have given me hope that not all MILs feel as though they never misunderstand anything or that they can't see the err in their ways. I love how you took responsibility and can clearly see how that might have been perceived much differently than expected. I love how you showed your DIL patience and understanding without continually denying any responsibility. That means A LOT to a DIL like me. Your situation reminds me so much of my own, it feels somewhat comforting (not that misery loves company) to know that the other side of the story involves just as much disappointment, and misunderstandings as my own side. Thank You Creme, I appreciate your sincerity. I agree that honesty about ourselves is the beginning to a resolution or at least better understanding. I won't sit around and act as if I am completely innocent and I have no fault. I will also remember that my MIL is a person who was probably just as confused as I was. Thank you again Creme!!
Ladies, have any of you ever asked yourself these questions?
I'm looking forward to more responses!! This has been the most fruitful post for me!!
I'm so sorry that you have a DIL who has that mentality, Pen. I agree, more DILs should admit that if that was really the case. I can admit, I was not open to her at all and I wasn't interested in getting to know my MIL the way she wanted me to. I can also admit I was intimidated at how close my husband and his mother were and not because I wanted him all to myself. I knew I would have a hard time if I choose to build a relationship with her because my husband was so overprotective about his mother. So I have always choose to stay away. I couldn't have an adult conversation with her (which might not have be "nice" all the time) without my husband screaming at me because she cries and then screaming at me because I'm crying, I'm sure it would have been easier still. But I understand what you mean Pen, but for what it's worth, you can't control her. Maybe your son is OK with this, it's what works for him. I'm not telling you not to worry or be disappointed about the situation but maybe you can focus more on you and what works best for you. Worrying about a situation you really have no control over just makes things harder for you. I know you miss your son but I think focusing on yourself, no matter what it's about will be a good thing. Thanks for responding Pen!!
Married Chick, you have to understand, I didn't always feel like this
there were years and years of pain, confussion, despair and anger, oh my, so much anger...
I honestly, didn't believe I did anything? I made up mind mind, and believe me, the mind is a very powerful thing, that she wanted to drive a wedge between my son and I, and she thought the same about me...however, I didn't know how she felt, I just assumed...I tried talking to her once about it, in a letter which pointed fingers at her pulling the parent/adult card, so you can imagine how that made things worse......but I imagined all kinds of things about her, without knowing her, and just expected and assumed so many things I was doing was right, b/c I had done them that way, all of my life and no one ever complained...therefore, I became comfortable with who I was and the way I did things...I didn't realize any other way....\
it's the way we both misinterpreted each others actions and everything just escalated way over the top...we were always both walking on egg shells around each other, and everything that was said and done, we took as a personal attack, when none of it was meant that way from either side...what a fiasco...and very damaging....
boy, when you put two women in the same kitchen, look out...LOL
seriously...please know, that, I was not a saint in this, and did many things wrong....and perceived and assumed things about her, without asking her....sad....very very sad...so many years lost....
I think Creme's response was excellent as well. The best I've seen!
I made a lot of mistakes as the DIL in my MIL/DIL relationship. I know that I wanted to monopolize DH's (then DBF) time when we were together and I think it...no, looking back I know, that at 18, I thought Dh's family was much less, for lack of a better word, worldly then the people I was used to and it annoyed me. I took huge offense when they showed a lack of knowledge and biases towards my culture, and I retaliated ten fold by insulting theirs when I felt slighted. It was a terrible beginning to a life long relationship.
I was young and had it happened today, I know I would have dealt with it differently. I would have more patience and perhaps had that been my approach to start with, we wouldn't have ended up insulting each other and instead trying to learn from each other. Well, at least with MIL. I think, nearing 90 now, GMIL was stuck in her views. At our wedding, in a foreign country, she kept complaining that she 'couldn't understand these people' (who spoke better english then I do frankly!) and that everything was 'weird' and she couldn't udnerstand why we wanted to go to this god forsaken country to get married, where 'they' might harm us... LOL! :D Can't change the world right?
Today I'm very, very proud of my husbands heritage. He comes from a long line of hard working people who made their mark through their efforts in their communities, and their devotion to their families and country. Today, in my home, we have a large photo of the first *last name* member of his family to arrive in our country, and I was lucky enough to spend time with his grandmother before she passed away, and learned things about their history that even MIL and FIL weren't aware of - and I look forward to sharing this rich history with our children. I realize looking back I was not nearly the 'wordly' girl I thought I was, having little knowledge of my own country! Hah!
Thank you MarriedChick, this is a very enlightening topic. My DS is not OK with this, but as DH & I told him a few weeks ago when he came to us very upset about DIL's attitude towards us, "She comes first now; you need to work it out with her." We didn't suggest counseling, but he mentioned it on his own. We've never said anything disparaging about her. We don't want to put him in the middle, so we are silent and put up with it so we can see him. He is our son and we would like to have a relationship with him. DH, DD and I do miss him a lot, and although we're busy and fulfilled there's an empty spot with his name on it that hurts us, somedays more than others. It's very difficult to spend many years loving someone and then suddenly be forced to stop. I don't want to parent him anymore, but I'd like to be able to have an adult-to-adult relationship with him (& DIL, if she'd let me.)
I know it sounds like I'm not acknowledging any responsibility for a rift here, but DS & DIL both have said we've done nothing wrong. Every day, though, I try to figure it out and come up with the same conclusion: DIL doesn't want us to exist and is using any excuse she can come up with to keep DS away. When GC come she'll keep them away as well.
Creme, your honesty & courage here are so helpful, even though my situation is different from yours. I hope we all, DILs and MILs, can get some insight from reading your story and others.
Creme, that's the beauty of your response. You weren't always this open-minded. You took the time and changed your own way of thinking and that's a beautiful thing. I really enjoy reading your post because it shows your strength and courage in the situation. It gives me hope because you said it took 12 years before things actually changed, I've been with my husband for 8 years and things have progressively gotten worse. You make me think there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Not for my MIL and her coming to grips with everything, but for me as the DIL. I know that I can change my way of thinking about her even if she is still oblivious to her part in it all.
Allohamora, I can relate to you simply because I was 18 when I met my husband and still very "wet" behind the ears. We think we know so much but we don't, lol. I guess for me though I didn't want that new information about life coming from people I didn't know and didn't quite like how the did things...ehh. You live and learn, lol. Maybe I could have learned something from MIL, but I like hearing things from my FOO, though. It's much more comforting for people who have spent time with me to help me out.
This has turned out to be a great forum for me. I think there is a lot of honest responses from people who are willing to look in the mirror.
You gals are great!!
I am a natural born philosopher...it's part of who I am....I'm told all the time, I'm way to deep...it there is some thing on a nature channel, or the news, about a certain subject, I want to ask questions beyond...I'm curious and not satisfied until I know all there is to know about a subject, thank goodness for the internet...I don't drive people crazy any more with questions....however, it doesn't sit well with a lot of younger people....
and let me tell you, I'm 61 years old...and when I was in my 30's - 40's I thought I knew it all, plus, now when I look back and remember how I felt about issues, like for instance, Dr. Kavorkian....and what I believe now, let me tell you, it's interesting to watch yourself change...the older we grow, the more we learn....and it's absolutely astounding....
Quote from: penstamen on April 29, 2010, 09:07:19 AM
Thank you MarriedChick, this is a very enlightening topic. My DS is not OK with this, but as DH & I told him a few weeks ago when he came to us very upset about DIL's attitude towards us, "She comes first now; you need to work it out with her." We didn't suggest counseling, but he mentioned it on his own. We've never said anything disparaging about her. We don't want to put him in the middle, so we are silent and put up with it so we can see him. He is our son and we would like to have a relationship with him. DH, DD and I do miss him a lot, and although we're busy and fulfilled there's an empty spot with his name on it that hurts us, somedays more than others. It's very difficult to spend many years loving someone and then suddenly be forced to stop. I don't want to parent him anymore, but I'd like to be able to have an adult-to-adult relationship with him (& DIL, if she'd let me.)
I know it sounds like I'm not acknowledging any responsibility for a rift here, but DS & DIL both have said we've done nothing wrong. Every day, though, I try to figure it out and come up with the same conclusion: DIL doesn't want us to exist and is using any excuse she can come up with to keep DS away. When GC come she'll keep them away as well.
Creme, your honesty & courage here are so helpful, even though my situation is different from yours. I hope we all, DILs and MILs, can get some insight from reading your story and others.
Pen, big hugs, :)
I really really hope things work out for your son and DIL, and you all...
Quote from: allohamora on April 29, 2010, 08:46:53 AM
I think Creme's response was excellent as well. The best I've seen!
I made a lot of mistakes as the DIL in my MIL/DIL relationship. I know that I wanted to monopolize DH's (then DBF) time when we were together and I think it...no, looking back I know, that at 18, I thought Dh's family was much less, for lack of a better word, worldly then the people I was used to and it annoyed me. I took huge offense when they showed a lack of knowledge and biases towards my culture, and I retaliated ten fold by insulting theirs when I felt slighted. It was a terrible beginning to a life long relationship.
I was young and had it happened today, I know I would have dealt with it differently. I would have more patience and perhaps had that been my approach to start with, we wouldn't have ended up insulting each other and instead trying to learn from each other. Well, at least with MIL. I think, nearing 90 now, GMIL was stuck in her views. At our wedding, in a foreign country, she kept complaining that she 'couldn't understand these people' (who spoke better english then I do frankly!) and that everything was 'weird' and she couldn't udnerstand why we wanted to go to this god forsaken country to get married, where 'they' might harm us... LOL! :D Can't change the world right?
Today I'm very, very proud of my husbands heritage. He comes from a long line of hard working people who made their mark through their efforts in their communities, and their devotion to their families and country. Today, in my home, we have a large photo of the first *last name* member of his family to arrive in our country, and I was lucky enough to spend time with his grandmother before she passed away, and learned things about their history that even MIL and FIL weren't aware of - and I look forward to sharing this rich history with our children. I realize looking back I was not nearly the 'wordly' girl I thought I was, having little knowledge of my own country! Hah!
what a wonderful story....
Yanno, we all make mistakes, we all look back and see things we could have done differently...when we have our babies, we are children ourselves, and we grow and learn with them and from them...life is marvelous, and it makes me so happy to read a story like this...I beleive the hardest thing for human beings to accomplish, is to be able to say, "I'm so sorry, I was wrong", or I'm sorry I hurt you....and it's such a shame to not be able to admit ownership in relationships that have gone badly.
I remember being an expectant mother, planning how I would do things differently, and of course better, than the other moms. I bought a front pack and was planning to hike and cross-country ski with my baby - no hanging around inside for us or being stuck to pavement with a stroller... but DD hated it! She'd do the "cat avoiding bath" spread and there was no way I could get her in that thing. My vision was not to be.
What I learned was that we think we can control everything, but kids are who they are and we must adjust to their needs and let ours take a backseat for awhile. I chuckle to myself when the young, expectant moms at work confidently talk about how it's going to be...and I wish them all the best:)
Pen, you are so right about that. Even I said I wouldn't do somethings with my children, but they have taught me that I can't dictate it all.
I'm glad this post has developed the way it has. I feel much more comfortable with the ladies who have decided to respond, I feel as though I have a better understanding of some MILs.
I am really enjoying this thread to...different perspectives, to me are my way of learning and going forward....love to listen to the perspectives of others....
thank you for this thread
I'm trying too, Anna, but our DIL doesn't give us much to work with. It's so sad. I wish we could have a comfortable relationship with DS again, and at the very least feel that DIL wasn't out to get rid of us. If only there was something I could take back, I'd do it immediately.
If anyone has any input on the syndrome my DIL is exhibiting (wanting ILs to disappear from day one) I'd appreciate it.
Today is really hard, for some reason. :'(
Pen,
I'm so sad to hear that you're having a bad day. From everything I've read about your situation, you have done things right. It's just not fair, is it? You enthusiasticly did your best to be a wonderful mom to your ds and now you feel as though he is rejecting you. Just horrible! I wonder about other situations similar to yours in years gone by. Do you think as sons got older they came back into their parents lives? I don't understand how any son can just permanently turn their back on the parents who love them and raised them. It doesn't compute and you deserve so much more than that. I wish I had the answer for you - I want you to have joy back in your life. We care about you and want what's best for you. I'm worried that this stress is going to do a number on your health. Have you seen a doctor about this? I hope knowing that your friends here on WWU care about you will help you have peace.
Big bear hugs, Hope
MarriedChick,
First of all, I want to say that it says a lot about you that you care enough to come to this board to find solutions to your MIL/DIL situation. That means you want to do something to better the relationship. Good for you!
To answer your questions:
"Is it hard to except the truth or hear a different perspective from your DIL/MIL?"
To tell you the truth, over the past seven years I've known my dil, we haven't spoken that much about anything of substance. We haven't really spent that much time together, but when we do it's in a group and just friendly chit chat. I wish she would gently tell me what she doesn't like about our family. At least we would know where she's coming from and hopefully improve the situation. I think in order to have a healthy relationship with someone you need to be willing to hear their perspective on things. I'm ready to listen if she would be willing to spend time with us and talk. When you marry someone, you become a member of that family and I think it's imperative that you make an effort to get along. You will be a member of that family hopefully for the rest of your life - make the best of it.
"Are you living up to the expectations of your DIL/MIL - if so why or why not?"
I wish we knew our dil's expectations so we could make adjustments to make her feel more comfortable and accepted. Maybe you could tell me the best way to approach finding out what her expectations are. I'd really like to know from a dil's perspective.
"Can you appreciate that someone is different than you in many ways and not feel slighted when your expectations aren't met?"
My dil is as different from me as day and night. She is very creative - I stink at creativity. She is very funny - I'm very serious. She isn't very domestic - I am. And so it goes on and on. We both have good and bad points. I realize that there are things about her that our ds loves very much and we want them to be happy together. All we want is for our ds/dil to be genuinely happy together in a healthy relationship and to have harmony in our family. I want them to be a part of our family. However, I try not to have expectations - it hurts too bad when they aren't met. I tell myself not to expect them to initiate contact with us or answer my calls or return my messages. But that doesn't make for much of a relationship...........dysfunctional is a better word for it.
"Can MILs/DILs admit that they are partially responsible for the rift in their relationships with DILs/MILs??"
I am more than willing to take responsiblity for my share of the relationship problems. Actually, I want to know what I am doing wrong so I can correct it. I realize, after reading posts from mil/dil's alike, that I was too pushy about our family getting together. I just took for granted that our lifelong tradition of getting together for our birthdays would continue, for instance. I would try to find a date everyone could make which was assuming too much. I also invited all our family members to the park, bike riding, Christmas tree trimming, etc., but backed off when ds/dil didn't show interest. I'm slowly learning.
"Do MILs/DILs have "entitlement" issues like "DIL *should* like me or MIL *has* to do what I say."
I think parents hope that when someone joins their family they will try to blend. That doesn't mean that mil's should boss the dil's around, or vise versa. That doesn't mean that regardless of the treatment one receives, they must like the other person. You can't force yourself to like someone. Having said that, I do think it's important to the family unit that everyone makes an effort to get along. If a dil discourages her dh from seeing his foo, it is unnatural. That separation can cause tension and unhappiness in your relationship with him and can cause you both undue stress. It also effects the people in his family and can cause a lot of pain. When a mil rejects a dil, it has the same effect.
I sure hope my perspective helps you see another view point. That's all it is - my viewpoint. That doesn't mean I'm right.
Hugs, Hope
Thank you, Hope. You are so sweet to care :) DH says yes, give it time and DS will come back. DS & DIL are still young and likely to change as they mature. If DS isn't absorbed completely into DIL's family we might have a chance.
Regarding MarriedChick's questions, I think you answered thoughtfully and spoke for many of us. I, too, don't know what I can do to be accepted by DIL and would appreciate some input about how best to find out what her expectations are. Good post!
I came to a realization today about an expectation I have that I hadn't realized before. I worry that my family's history is going to be forgotten because we're not important to DIL. When she rejects us it feels as if she's rejecting our ancestors and their stories as well. Family histories survive because the current generation passes the stories down to the next. If a generation ignores one side of the family, that information is lost forever. My family's history is really interesting, full of good people who did amazing things. My expectation is that my family will be respected enough to have our history passed down to the next generation.
If any of you have cut off a side of your family, do you still pass the historical knowledge on, or is that side of the family gone forever? Are any of you afraid of your family history being lost?
one thing I realized, which was the most difficult...for all these years, I kept swearing, that I didn't do anything...I did nothing to upset her...perhaps in my own fears of admitting I was wrong in some way...she kept saying the same thing...I know this thru talking to my son about it...I cannot imagine the frustrations and hurt he felt...our children only want our approval...and when we reject they're wives, we reject them...when we try hard to talk to them about it, they take it as we're demeaning they're wives, not presenting to them our perspectives and the way we saw things happen...
you go to a scene of an accident, and talk to 5 witnesses...each witness tells a whole different story of what they saw...and as time goes by, those perspectives change, become more dramatic, and the stories sometimes get even more blown out of porportion...they are not lying, they are telling they're side of the story and the way they saw things...each mind perceives something different.
then when our DIL's act out in a certain way...we take it as rejection, which is so very painful...when in fact, she is just as frustrated angry and hurt as we are...she also wants to be likes and she is perceiving us as not liking her...and it begins to escalate...anger, fear, causes us to actually surpress actions that we do, because of who we are and how we're used to doing things...no one ever told us before, that we're doing things wrong...our son's before they were married, overlooked our faults, b/c they didn't see any, they saw a mother they loved and learned to accept us, unconditionally.
When I started to accept, that maybe, just maybe, I hurt her unintentionally...it was like this distant faint voice, which took months to creep up on me and whisper constantly in my soul, that maybe I contributed to this...I didn't know why, and I became hungry for the knowledge of wanting to know what I did...I felt compassion for my DIL...and this voice kept saying, "But what if you did do something unintentionally and you didn't mean it that way"?
Another great fear, was talking to her about it, I feared rejection again the most...but then I thought, what do I have to loose by discussing this with her? The difference was, I worried that I had done something, and when she told me what I did, I was ready to not take what she said as a personal attack, but more so, how she perceived me...and she to realized, that she perceived me wrongly...as I did her...
I had all these melodramatic stories festering in my mind...she's doing this because, or she's doing that because, and it blew way out of porportion...and wasn't so...she wanted to be liked, but she didn't want to be smothered and pushed and made to feel like she had to love me....
By buying stuff for them, was overstepping boundaries and it made her feel like she owed me something...even though I didn't want her to feel like that, you can't control how people feel. She wanted to make her own decissions, her own choices her own mistakes...in her own household.
The whole key to resolving these issues for me, was acceptance of the fact, that I must have done something wrong...and I'm sure, there are things I did, that hurt her, that I still don't know about or never will...
I was ready to listen to her...to embrace who she was and how she felt without getting defensive...and when she told me things, I was literally embarrassed and astonished that I treated her like that...and assumed that just because she was married to my son, her household was mine...how dare I? When I was in her home, I was a visitor and should have acted as such, grateful and always remembering, I am a vistor....
I shouldn't have called as much, but given her space...I shouldn't have sent so many emails...it smothered her, and made her feel like I was pushing myself on her...and that is exactly how I felt when my mil did that to me....I remember the feeling of wanting to sometimes scream..."please leave us alone". I remember the dreadful moment, when my mil and husband told me she was going on vacation with us...sheesh...the last thing I wanted...not that I disliked her or anything, I just wanted to spend my only vacation with my family alone...without someone else there to dictate where we should go, what we should do, and when we should do it...God, it was awful and not a vacation at all. And we didn't have severe problems...it wasn't personal...I just wanted special quality privet time with my family. I felt so smothered and wanted to just run away and be alone, by myself...it was awful.
Pen, Hope and Anna....I pray, that things will change for you all, and I know in some cases it can...all my life, when I heard that people are getting divorced, I used to shake my head and say to myself...God it could be so easy to get along if people would not be so stubborn and just listetn to each other without taking what the other one feels as a personal attack...
So, I hope and pray, with all my soul...that you all in some way, can find your way into the hearts of those who have hurt you...I believe you can, but it takes time...and preparedness...and to accept, that we did do things that hurt and upset them...we said things that may have hurt them, but it wasn't intentional..it was us, who we are an how we act...that is the simple meaning of why peop;e don't get along...b/c we all perceive things differently...and the reasons we don't mend things, is due to fear of rejection and fear itself...we don't want to admit, that we're wrong...which is to me, so small and silly.
I do realize, that everyone of your situations is different...and won't be like mine, just wanted to share my inner feelings...I'm not always right, more often, I misperceive things...and people...so, please don't think, I'm telling you, you are wrong, or anything like that...I am speaking from my heart of what worked for me...
I love you guys...and hope and pray, all willbe well with time...patience and a lot of soul searching...
Creme you're making me wish you were my MIL, lol. You said something that struck me
QuoteAnother great fear, was talking to her about it, I feared rejection again the most...but then I thought, what do I have to loose by discussing this with her? The difference was, I worried that I had done something, and when she told me what I did, I was ready to not take what she said as a personal attack, but more so, how she perceived me...and she to realized, that she perceived me wrongly...as I did her...
I absolutely wish I could talk to my MIL with an open heart. I'm sure she feels that I might reject her. But from a DILs point of view, I already felt rejected because she can't see how she has hurt me over the years. I have sat down and talked to her on many occasions, trying to mend things. I would always find myself apologizing while she sat and "basked" in the glory of knowing that I knew I was wrong. Did that make sense? That's just my perception. An apology and understanding of how her actions have also caused a rift would make it WAY easier for me to really talk to her. But that's my wish, my perception and essentially my problem.
I know I have made many mistakes as far as getting along with my MIL. I could have been more patient, kind and open to who she was. When you feel like you're backed into a corner, it's not a good feeling and doesn't cultivate warm and loving feelings.
I know I won't be able to talk to her because my husband has been dead set on not allowing anyone to hurt her feelings, even if it was at the cost of mine. So I've learned to stay away from her. I can't handle her with kids gloves as my husband does. She is an adult who says and does things that can be perceived as rude or inappropriate and over the years I have held my tongue so I wouldn't disrespect my husband. I still don't think he sees his role in how this all came to be. It is still "my fault" the relationship between his mother and I hasn't worked. I haven't "accepted" her love so therefore, it's my fault. He always says, "She is who she is and she won't change. You should just adjust for her so I can have my family together." Needless to say nothing has come from that line of thought other than me deciding to drop the whole MIL issue and never come around.
Creme, if my MIL had the mind you have I would be more than willing to start again but there have been so many thing said between us. I don't know if there is a chance I could ever be in the same room as her again.
Thank you Hope for your answers. You made this statement,
QuoteI think parents hope that when someone joins their family they will try to blend
That was a huge issue. I wasn't trying to blend in. I'm not a blender (you get what I mean, lol). I wasn't trying to blend in, I wanted to be respected about the fact that I am different. I don't hug people and his family does, they still make comments about why I don't 8 years later. I'm not really into getting together with family, they took that as a personal attack if I didn't come by to visit. I have never felt accepted into his family. I'm sure they felt the same because I didn't jump into their family traditions. I felt as though they thought it's what I needed and wanted because I married my husband. Not quite. I have a family, dysfunctional, but my family. I wasn't expecting to have his family trying so hard to treat me as one of them. It wasn't a bad thing but not what I expected or even ever dreamed of wanting. From a DIL point of view, Most of us want to be accepted for who we are, not thought of negatively because of who we aren't. I know wasn't looking for a new family, but they thought I was and understandably so.
It really boils down to perception. So the next step is to let go of this perception. I can do that, but can she, who knows.
Quote from: penstamen on April 29, 2010, 10:29:17 PM
If any of you have cut off a side of your family, do you still pass the historical knowledge on, or is that side of the family gone forever? Are any of you afraid of your family history being lost?
My husband's entire family has been cut off. I have two teenagers (one in college and one in high school) and my husband's family does have quite an interesting history which has been passed on to my kids (good things and bad), and they also know all the details behind the cut-off because they were old enough at the time to see and understand what was happening. I think most children eventually will have some curiosity about the family that has been cut off even if they don't know them.
My situation is completely different from anyone I've read about here and even my husband never felt like he was part of his family before he ever even met me, and we are still passing on the history that we know, so I have to think that most people would keep the history going even after cut-off. And if they aren't passing it along...eventually those children will grow up and start digging on their own.
To answer your question Anna, I never have stopped them and I never will. It's not my place to decide where he spends his time. Not all DILs want to control their husbands every move. I just don't want to forced or manipulated with guilt into having to tag along. I don't want to have the same relationship as my husband and his mother might think I should have with her. I understand about family history but wouldn't it be your son's responsibility to make sure his family history is passed on?? It's my job to tell my kids about my family because my husband doesn't know nor was he there and he hasn't heard the stories I have about my people. And I don't even know everything there is to know about my own family, so before I go even deeper into his family I want to explore my own.
I feel sometimes MILs gives us DILs too much responsibility and blame for bringing the family together. We understand that it is important but some of us want to cultivate our own first, we want to feel more as a unit before we indulge into your family so misunderstandings aren't taken out of proportion, and everyone feels like they have a solid ground to stand on when together. DILs don't want their MILs to feel like they have to walk on egg shells and neither do we. But we need time to adjust to having a husband, being the woman of the house and having kids in some cases. Some people take longer than others to warm up but that doesn't mean there is something wrong with them. For me it means, back off. If I don't act like a loving daughter, oh well. Sometimes that's just how it is, but bad mouthing me and damning me to hell for brainwashing her precious, used to be so sweet until he met her son doesn't work either, LOL (That was a small vent, sorry :o )
It can also seem like MILs think their son is the victim and he is being totally manipulated by his narcissistic wife (just a DILs perspective). When do MILs decided that if their son is staying around, even complaining constantly, why hasn't he left?? When do you say as a parent I can't do anything about it, hating her isn't making my son come around me anymore than before. Staying for the kids, IMO, is outdated and over used. I was in a home where at times, I wished my parents would separate instead of staying together and being unhappy. So why haven't your sons left if these DILs are so incorrigible? Maybe they aren't as unhappy as you may think. Maybe it just they aren't the person you would really like to see your sons with. I don't know, I can't speak for all DILs just for myself. I'm not making light of anyone's situation, I'm just speaking how I feel as a DIL who has dealt with a MIL acting as if everything is my fault.
Can you accept if your DIL just doesn't like you? Not what you have or haven't done to her, but your personality as a whole. What if she just is put off by it and would rather keep things civil, can that be accepted? Do you feel like your DIL has an obligation to spend time with you, why or why not?
Thanks Ladies!!!
Hmmm, that's where my husband is different than most men I guess. He is the thoughtful one, he buys cards and remembers birthdays, I barely remember my own mother's birthday, lol. I have never been that way so I think for my MIL to expect that from me just lets me know she doesn't know me nor does she accept the fact that I'm not like that.
I don't think DILs have to spend time with her husbands family. I think that is totally by choice as with going to visit anyone else. Just because I married him doesn't mean I automatically like spending time with them nor does it mean I have to go. If thats the case my husband knew before we got married I wasn't into that, so he had a choice then. If I go, I sit quietly until it's time to leave. I'm not there for his family I'm there because he wants me to be there for him. I'm not the most family oriented person and I have never really liked family functions. Now that I'm an adult, I have a choice and I can't please everyone nor will I try. That's what I mean by acceptance. I am who I am and I feel like I have to make adjustments for people who don't mean as much to me as they do my husband. I'm willing to compromise with husband but thats where it begins and ends for me. My family knows these things about me and still loves me the same. I don't go to my own family functions and they still know I love them and they love me. I guess as a DIL I'm so tired of having to "prove" I want to be apart of my husbands family or "blend" in. I didn't have to prove anything or blend in to my own family and they love me anyway, so why would I do that for people who clearly think something is wrong with me from the beginning?
Speaking for myself, I have enough obligations in my life. I chose to marry my husband so that's something I chose to take on. But I didn't marry his family so I didn't chose to take them on, I choose to respect them and receive the same in return. I don't want to feel obligated to people who feel slighted at the first thing I do that isn't in their favor. It's true my husband and kids come first, my biological family, then other people in my life. I'm sorry if I sound harsh but the truth for me, I'm not into being family unless we have been through something together as a family. If not, you will never ever compare or be even close to my own family, but that's just me.
MarriedChick, my DS made a committment to his wife when he said his vows. He takes them very seriously, and will do whatever it takes to preserve his marriage. He learned that from his dad, my DH. We would never expect him to chose us over his wife; in fact, we've told him that when he's come to us upset over her treatment of us. IMO, some DILs can make life so unpleasant for their husbands over IL issues that the husband avoids the source of her unhappiness whether it makes logical sense or not. DH & I are out, not because DS wants it that way, but because it makes life less stressful for him. In those cases, DILs absolutely do have the power to either keep a family together or break it apart. Unfortunately, ours has chosen the latter. No, she doesn't have him chained to the banister, but her behavior and mood can affect his decisions.
I thought it was interesting to read about Creme's and Anna's experiences, and to get Married's perspective. Although we paid for DS's education and living expenses through college, once they married we stopped helping except when they asked and we felt like it. We have given gifts for birthdays and Christmases, but even that seems to be too much for DIL. She buys us really cheap or re-gifted items as a way to show us how she feels. I think maybe she feels guilty about accepting things from us since she hates us, but I think it would be really awkward to not give her a present equal to DS & DD at Christmas...but perhaps MarriedChick has a point and we should just leave her out on Christmas Day? I'm very confused, since I don't see how leaving her out could help. Wouldn't that just be one more thing she could say about us?
Anna, our DIL was friendly, accepting and considerate before the wedding. We enjoyed her company and she appeared to enjoy ours, We vacationed together and all seemed fine. Shortly afterward she changed. That's why I think she had an agenda from the start to "cut him from the herd." She wanted DS and us to think she was excited about joining our family, knowing that once it was legal she had no intention of being civil to us and would work to cut our contact with him.
I'm not at the point yet where I have "nothing to lose" so I'm not bringing this up to DIL or DS. We still see them occasionally, DH is grateful for whatever he gets, DD wants to see her brother, and I think it would be selfish of me to ruin everything for them just so I could experiment with honest communication. It could totally blow up in my face.
One more thing - I still don't understand why the same "rules" don't apply to DIL's parents and family. They get daily access, holidays, gift exchanges, texts, phone calls, etc. with no limits or "boundaries." What do you think?
Hi Pen!!
Well you're right her attitude can change they way he comes around if it's that stressful for him. My husband is different he goes around but doesn't make it a big deal if I come anymore. Thats the difference for me. I can't change his mind about his family. Maybe your sons are kind of weak minded, no disrespect meant. But if it's that important to be with family he will and he will just deal with the consequences or leave.
I'm not a gift giver or receiver and I was irritated too when my MIL would buy me gifts. I know that if I bought her something not as nice or nothing at all I would be, once again, wrong, lol. I didn't want to be obligated to buying her a gift so it's best she doesn't buy gifts, I let her son do that. I guess, can't change how others feel.
For the record, in my home, my parents aren't any more special. I don't call them but maybe once or twice a month, my mother has NEVER offered her advice, she only gives advice when asked, she doesn't feel like my husband has to spend time with her just because I married him and she doesn't expect anything from him but respect. That's the difference, my mother didn't put all these expectations and obligations on my husband like his mother did me. She was just happy I was happy and anything else was a bonus. But I am my mother's youngest child of 6 she has 20+ grandchildren and 2 greatgrand children. She's not new to this so she learned a long time ago about sticking her nose where it doesn't belong or make demands upon her children and their spouses. So it's different for me.
Boundaries are a good thing. They are needed when people don't feel respected. If you have boundaries maybe you have done things that haven't been received so well and that person doesn't want that to happen again. You have 3 choices, follow their rules (respectful), blow up and get mad and say you DIL is the devil (childish) or leave them alone because you think their boundary is unnecessary (disrespectful).
I hope you can see that all DILs are different, we don't all want to kick you out of our lives, but I personally want respect and not to be obligated to more people.
Thanks, MarriedChick. Obviously our situations are very, very different. My DIL's family sees DS & DIL daily, and make all the plans and schedules for all holidays and events. We just sit back and get what we get :( DS did stand up, along with another of their SsIL, for his right to spend occasional holidays with us so that was nice.
My stepmom is very similar to my DIL, so maybe I'm hyper-sensitive to this treatment. Once when my dad invited me out to dinner while in my neighborhood, he said, "Don't tell ________. She gets really jealous when I mention you and your brother."
She still gets on the other line when I call; my dad and I never get to talk privately unless he calls while she's gone. DS does the same thing; we'll have great conversations when DIL's not around.
I lucked out all the way around, didn't I? For someone who just wanted a family it's really hard sometimes. With the help of this site, and everyone here, I'm going to come out the other end better than ever (I keep telling myself..)
Best wishes to you, MarriedChick. I hope everything works out well for you. Thanks for being so helpful to us all; the topics you bring up are really interesting to explore.
Married, just to be clear, I didn't say I had boundaries, I said DIL's family doesn't have any. We're too aware of our status as outsiders to be comfortable calling, emailing, dropping in, or whatever. We've never been invited over except to help them move, and we have never dropped in or called to say we're in the neighborhood. DIL hasn't had to set boundaries against us because we're self-monitoring, but we sense our limits and stick to them. Good grief, we just want to have an adult relationship with DS & DIL.
About gifts, etc., in my situation I feel like DIL thinks she'll get cooties or something. I know when I see something that reminds me of someone I detest, I want it out of my sight immediately. I think that's how our DIL views our gifts. She doesn't want anything from us or our friends, in fact they exchanged wedding gifts that they had registered for! Very rude and hurtful. Our friends, many of whom weren't invited to the wedding due to our limited guest allowance, went out of their way to purchase expensive gifts from the registry and have them shipped. I've had to be very vague about it when they ask, "So how do they like the _______?"
We have one son. Our daughter will not be having children. If DIL cuts us out, that's it for us!
Anna, best of luck to you. I think your DIL may be changing her perspective a bit, and I'm hopeful it continues to be good for both of you. You seem to have done everything she asked, under difficult circumstances. Maybe she's seeing that you passed the test or whatever.
Well Anna those are a lot of rules. The only rules I had were not to let them eat junk all day, got tired of getting sick kids back, that was for both grandmas. Don't let them be disrespectful, both grandmas and just use common sense. I figure they raised kids before all these special gadgets came around. If they fall, kiss the boo boo and make it all better. I don't care where either GPs take the kids, as long as I get a break!! (Gotta be honest, lol). If you're self monitoring then great, but that can be misunderstood as acting as if something is wrong all the time or like you're treating me like I'm a time bomb that will explode at any moment, lol. Kinda hurtful for me when MIL would say "I don't want to say or do anything to hurt you" but then proceeds to do the things that bothers me most...go figure. I know her intentions are good but still too extreme, lol.
You ladies are helping me a lot this time around...
Quote from: Anna on April 30, 2010, 05:55:11 AM
If you don't like, or get along with your mil, would you stop your husband or your children from spending time with them also? If so, why?
Anna...this is a very generally response...and I don't think it applies to your situation, but here goes as to what the thinking may be.
I do feel flares of anger when dh spends time with his parents. After what they did...and aren't sorry for...and won't say sorry for--I just can't believe he has anything to do with them. But...that's his choice.
As far as kids...why would anyone, if they didn't like and trust their mil and thought their mil treated them badly let the kids be around that person? Why should you let people who treat you badly have the pleasure of your children's company? I think that's what some dils think. I also think some dils do it as punishment. I know I think both about my ils...but they do see my kids. I don't want them to...but I allow it.
There was a period of about a year and a half that they didn't, but now they do. I'll be honest...and I'm NOT ashamed to admit this, if it weren't for the fact that ods already knew them and wanted to be around them then they wouldn't see the kids at all. Yds was too young at the time to realize anything was wrong...and the ils had never spent much time around him anyway. If it weren't for the fact that ods wanted to see them AND we lived next door...I wouldn't let them see the kids. They betrayed us. They hurt us. They aren't sorry. They don't have good judgement. Frankly, I don't want them around my kids at all...but ods loves them so I suck it up. I do it for ods and only for that reason.
I stay away from my ils as much as possible. I don't want to be around them. I no longer like them---and once I loved them. In fact, had a relationship with my mil very much like what you used to have with your dil. I surely do not trust them---and never will again. I won't see them for dh. There are limits even to love. I will not expose myself to people who have deliberately hurt me to please my husband or anyone else.
Quote from: Anna on April 30, 2010, 08:59:21 AM
I don't hold my dil solely responsible for things that happen, altho I think dil can help. Most men are not good at buying cards, calling mom, passing along whatever, this does not excuse them, by any means. The male brain is just different than ours. I'm the one who buys cards for BOTH sides of our family. My hubby just doesn't have time, nor would he even remember when his moms birthday is. As a mom myself, I know how hurtful it is to not be acknowleged on a birthday or mother's day, so I go buy the card for hubby's mom, it's a small thing, & it means so much to hubby that I do this, & to his mom when she receives it. My hubby is a very loving person, he's just forgets dates. If you know that your mil would hold you responsible for receiving a card, why would you not go buy it?
I think that all dils are required to spend some time with their in-laws, they did marry our sons.
Yes...the male brain is different...but if it were important enough to them...they'd remember it. I've said before that I never took responsibility for the cards. I did take responsibility for the Xmas gifts for many years, but no longer do that. Sometimes he buys cards, sometimes he doesn't. There have even been times when we've been out and I've been picking out cards and I've said...do you want to get your parents a card. Most times he says "no". (Frankly I think it's one of the few ways [and it's very passive aggressive] that he feels like he's getting back at them for the hurt he feels. Maybe it's generational...but I just don't see where it's my responsibility. Yes, it'd be nice if I did it, but I don't want to. I'm just as busy as he is and they're his parents.
As to the colored...because whether or not mil thinks it's my responsibility, it's not. It's her son's. If he thinks it's important enough, then he'll do it. If not, he won't.
I agree w/married. I no longer buy the requirement to spend time with the inlaws. I will if I want and if I don't I won't. When my family has functions...he is invited, but there are no hard feelings if he doesn't attend. And, there are many things he doesn't attend.
I think your situation is so different because your dil and son have you there 5 days a week watching the kids. If you're responsible and safe enough to watch the kids...I don't get all of the stuff that's going on.
I may have gotten lost but is this a real situation or a hypothetical discussion? My 2 cents is that I sometimes make assumptions and then think they are not only fact but universal. Then when I meet up with someone else who does the same thing we both go to our "be right" corners and all heck follows. Sending love...
"So, I hope and pray, with all my soul...that you all in some way, can find your way into the hearts of those who have hurt you...I believe you can, but it takes time...and preparedness...and to accept, that we did do things that hurt and upset them...we said things that may have hurt them, but it wasn't intentional..it was us, who we are an how we act...that is the simple meaning of why peop;e don't get along...b/c we all perceive things differently...and the reasons we don't mend things, is due to fear of rejection and fear itself...we don't want to admit, that we're wrong...which is to me, so small and silly." ~ Creme
Thanks, Creme. Great post. I'm happy for you and your dil that you worked things out and have come to a new understanding.
I agree with you, it will help us come to a place of understanding and healing if we admit that we may have done something to offend our dils/mils. I wrote in a post about a month ago that I think if we ask for forgiveness and admit that we have failed that it could open up the door to a renewed relationship. I think some people may have taken that comment to mean that I thought it was okay to lie about being in the wrong to manipulate the situation. I didn't mean it that way - no to manipulation. However, I think we can honestly say we are sorry for our failures without really knowing what we actually did to upset our dil/ds. I do feel like a failure at being a mil since our dil avoids us at all costs and our ds has cut me out of his life considerably. In my case, I must have done something to annoy dil - but I think it is probably more of a personality conflict. Honestly, we have never had a disagreement or a blow out with our dil or ds. However, my dil and I have very different personalities and different ways of handling things. Most likely she takes things I do or say differently than intended. Because of our differing personalities, she probably fears a close relationship and would rather keep it casual.
On the other hand, there are other mils/dils on this site that most likely have dils/mils with severe personality disorders or mental illness. In those cases, I wouldn't consider them failures and they have nothing to apologize for. They are nothing short of victims.
One thing we all have in common is the pain we feel and the desire to have peace in our lives. I care so much for each and every one that posts here - mil or dil. I hope everyone finds the answers to their relationship problems. I know I have found many inspiring posts and sometimes I have an "aha" moment. Little by little, I believe I am getting somewhere thanks to all of you.
Love you! Hope
My heart is with all you mil who have been hurt so deeply. I have walked in your shoes. It seems to me that I am hearing my own stories some years ago. I respect everyone's perspective in this mil/dil relationship. I am almost afraid to give my opinion.
Marriedchick-- your mil probably pushed too much to get a close relationship with you. But I think that it is only natural to want this because as a mil you dont want to stop having a loving relationship with your ds. As a mil, I never in my wildest dreams did I think that is was healthier to have a "hello" "good by" relationship with the girl who married my son. I as a mil never visit my son and dil uninvited. I call my son or dil eventually when I need to tell them something . I never give advice, I never intrude in their lives and respects the way they are raising my 2 small grandchildren. We (husband and I)only raise our hand to help them when they need us. And still had problems with dil for a couple of years. You say that you married your DH not your in-laws. Yet in-laws will be there forever because they are your husband's family. The only way out is to kill them. Why would you deprive your husband (who you love) of the happiness of being close to his family. These are called "family ties". On family reunions you just sit there silently until it is time to leave...wow...lets face it you really dont care and I respect that. You are not even trying ...it is hard for me to think and honestly I dont, that you have the correct perspective. My respects to you though for your honest opinion. I feel sad though....it is so easy to be happy with harmony in our lives.......but it is a choice we make
Penstamen and Anna... You are great women and I hope things change for you (it did for me) or God give you the serenity to accept what cant be changed and most of all give you peace of mind.. You have been hurt like most of us that have come to this site...and probably we did hurt also our dils . The difference is that they have the power to decide our future in the life of those we love. Why? they have our son and grandchildren...we are in their hands lol.
Even if you doubt it...there are happy endings....
Nana, in the past I would have gotten upset at your response. But there is no point now. ;D I feel good about my situation regardless of how you feel about it. You can't tell me whether I have the right perspective, simply because you aren't me. You haven't walked a mile in my shoes nor have I yours. My perspective is just that mine and I know that what I have experienced with this has been hell with a side of crap, lol. Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not taking your post the wrong, but you remind me of the "typical MIL' who just can't let a DIL be hurt and angry and deal with it without being told they are wrong. That's exactly what this post wasn't about. This post wasn't about who's perspective is wrong. This post is about all of us MILs and DILs sharing our different perspectives from our situations in hopes of finding some understanding. OR at least learn that there are different ways to look at one situation.
One more thing, MILs have as much power as DILs do to "change" the situation. That's what this post was really about. MILs and DILs who can admit they haven't been as perfect as once thought and not constantly blaming someone else and waiting for them to make their life better. So for you and your situation, maybe it is all your DIL fault and you are "waiting" for her to "see the light". But don't put that off on me, I'm not here for that. I'm making my life better even if my MIL thinks everything is all my fault, I'm happy and so is my husband. Oh yea, try reading my first post on this thread and some after, you would see that I have never and would never take his family from him, not like I really could, but I'm sure all you see is "DIL who is wrong." Have a wonderful day Nana.
To Hope, Creme, and Pen...you ladies have been so wonderful on this thread. I really appreciate the wisdom you all have brought. It is refreshing to know that I can talk to you without judgement. I need this as I can't talk to my own MIL at least not now. You ladies helped me in my quest with this post, to find understanding. I know see that some MILs really do mean well but sometimes traveled down that DIL/MIL road without a map, lol. I can appreciate your honesty and willingness to admit your own faults without constant bashing your DIL. Thank you for that. We DILs want love and happiness too, we may go about it differently, but the goals are all the same.
Thank you to all others who posted and brought a new perspective. No one is ever wrong for feeling how they do we may just be misguided on how we got there. No perspective is ever WRONG just misunderstanding along the way may have turned into something it didn't have to be in the beginning.
THANK YOU LADIES!!!!! ;D
Nana, I understand your pain and hurt. The loss of a relationship with a child, even an adult child, can be devastating. I think this is sometimes difficult for younger people to understand, so we get frustrated and can sound angry when all we are is hurt beyond belief. I believe you haven't been a buttinsky MIL because my DH and I have also worked very hard to not offer advice, drop in, call, etc etc as I've posted so many times I'm sure it's boring to one and all ::)
It is possible to be a good IL and still have problems with a DIL, and vice versa. In those cases it's hard for MILs to understand that some MILs are truly horrible, and for DILs to understand that some DILs are too. We tend to group with like for safety.
As a former DIL, and now a MIL, I do feel as though I have more experience than those who are DILs only. It's not anyone's fault one way or the other, just the way things are. I remember having one awful MIL and one amazing one, and used my experiences as a guide. Unfortunately, my DIL was using her observations of her FOO to guide her (big rift beween ILs there.)
MarriedChick, I know it's hard to hear some of the MILs stories. It may be seem unbelievable that some DILs turned on a dime from nice and accepting to critical and shunning for no reason. It doesn't make any sense at all. But, since I've experienced it, I know it's possible. IMO what frustrates the MILs in this situation is that there's nothing we can do to fix it, since we truly have done nothing wrong.
We wrack our brains daily looking for something to apologize for! MarriedChick, I would be thrilled to find out that there was some phrase I used or action I took that was the cause of my DILs hatred! Isn't that backwards? The truth is, in my situation (and admitted to by DIL), DH & I have done nothing wrong. She just wishes we were out of the picture. In this instance DIL does hold the key since DH, DD & I want to have contact with DS, so we are silent and accepting.
Best wishes to you both. This is a site for understanding, and every post helps me on this often difficult journey. Take care.
Well, said, Pen. I think it is natural when we see a reaction "out there" to immediately think..."what did I do?" And it is sometimes a long time before we can get..."nothing." The other person has perceptions, needs, reactions...(whatever) that more often than not have nothing to do with us. The resulting "if we didn't cause it, we can't fix it" lesson can be a deeply painful one to learn.
Luise this is so true,and there is not a day goes by,when i'm struggling to understand what happened with my wonderful relationship with my OS,i think of you.
You are the biggest bundle of love i have ever had the chance to know.And you are loved by sooooooo many!
You had great relationships with DIL's and not so great with some DIL's.I'm sure you reached out with love to all of them.I think some people can not love back as many people,as others can.
They only have room for a few.
Yes, we reach out with love and the truth is that when suspicion and/or hate is given in return, we change. (Or at least I do.) Openness is sacrificed and caution takes it's place. The whole climate shifts.
"Is it hard to except the truth or hear a different perspective from your DIL/MIL?"-My MIL is the only real female role model I have. My mom passed away when I was 12 (9 years ago) and my dad's wife and I are not close. I go to my MIL quite a bit for advice or to see her way of looking at things. I don't always agree with her, and that is OK. But I always think it's important to know all perspectives so that I know I am making what I think is the best choice. Sometimes I ask for her advice, but many times she will just give it. Not in a disrespectful way or anything. If we are discussing something that she has an opinion on or something that she has been through, she will tell me what she thinks. I think it's great, because even if I don't agree with her side, I can still learn from her knowledge and experience.
"Are you living up the the expectations of your DIL/MIL if so why or why not?"- MIL has never told me what she expects from me. I would assume they wouldn't go further then expecting me to love her son the way he deserves (which I do) and to be the best mother possible to her granddaughter (which I am). She has never told me how she expects me to act or to treat her. I believe she just expects me to be who I am, and it seems she has accepted that person as her FDIL and is not pushing me to be someone I'm not just to please her. The only things I expect of my MIL is that she follows my instructions when she watches my daughter (which she does) and to be respectful of my relationship w/ her son (which she is). I don't understand why so many people these days (both DIL's and MIL's) can't seem to show basic respect to eachother. I was always raised to treat others how I wanted to be treated. It's such a simple, easy concept that I guess many people just forget about it.
"Are you living up the the expectations of your DIL/MIL if so why or why not?"- I believe this is answered above.
"Do you think they have unrealistic expectations?"- As I said before, I am unsure of what my MIL's expectations are, but I assume they are not unrealistic because if they were, I'm sure I wouldn't be meeting them and MIL and I wouldn't have the relationship that we do.
"Can MILs/DILs admit that they are partially responsible for the rift in their relationships with DILs/MILs??"- This is not a black and white question. In some cases, yes, it is both the MIL and DIL's fault for the rift. In others, it could just be the MIL, or could just be the DIL. And in some cases, a husband could be to blame. I know if there was a problem that I had caused between MIL and I, I would be able to admit fault or partial fault, depending on the case. I believe many issues involving responsibility on both sides can be solved with just simple communication. If both sides would listen to eachother and work on making things better, they could probably fix things fairly easily. If one side is unwilling to change, I believe they are more at fault for any problems. Also, some people are just plain bad people. Some DIL's cut off grandparents for small, insignificant reasons. Some MIL's cause big problems in their children's relationships for their own personal gain. These are both examples where only one person is at fault. And sometimes it's not the MIL or the DIL. DIL asks DH to tell his mom something. DH misinterprets the info and MIL messes up. DIL gets mad and blames MIL. MIL in turn, gets mad at DIL. They refuse to speak. All because DH can't pass along a simple message. Just a basic communication problem.
"Do MILs/DILs have "entitlement" issues like "DIL *should* like me or MIL *has* to do what I say."- I don't think anyone is entitled to anything. I think it's unrealistic for a MIL to expect being liked by DIL before taking the time and effort to have a relationship with her. These things take time. I do however agree with your example of "MIL has to do what I say", but only in some instances. Example- MIL asked if she can get DD's ears pierced/give a new food/take her some place and DIL says no. MIL then goes and does it anyways. I wouldn't be letting MIL watch DD for a very long time. But that would go for any person watching my daughter. As her mother, I have the right to decide what my daughter does and does not do. No one else besides her father has that right. If anyone goes against what I say, in regards to my daughter, they will not be alone with her. But in other cases ("MIL has to bring such and such for dinner, because I said so") that's stupid and not right.
Man, this really turned into a novel. I know my opinions will not be shared by everyone, but I hope they help =)
Quote from: Anna on April 30, 2010, 05:55:11 AM
Pen, I'm very sorry, it sounds like your dil is not even going to give you a chance. Like you've never even been allowed to be a part of their lives. I don't think some dils know the effect they have on other people, nor do they care.
My story is a little different, My dil & I had a close relationship until my first gc was born. Everything I said was in reaction to her treatment of me & my son at that time. Everything I said was the truth. The things dil did, the things she said were unbelievable. She refused to let my son do anything, stood in front of his car with their new son in her arms for an hour to prevent him from leaving one day, son finally gave up & went back inside, threw a metal model car at my sons head while he was sleeping, started throwing things around the house, son thought she was giong to throw their baby one day, threw a fit, yelling & screaming at my son in front of one of his friends, Yelled at my son & me in front of three of their co-workers, etc... My son was scared, so he came to us. He didn't know where else to go. Dil should have been seen by a professional health care provider at that time. She was a totally different person. Her behaviour was off the wall. I had, & have not since, ever witnessed that type of behaviour. [glow=yellow2,300]It was scary. [/glow] Now dil struggles to stay calm, to not over react. To say she suffered from post partum depression would be a major understatement. It was far more than that. The way she acted at that time is hard to erase from the memory, mine & everyone elses. Dil has gotten everone that witnessed the way she was back then, out of sons life. except for his family. That's when she started to cut us out, to push us away, Yes I know now that I shouldn't have reacted with words, but wow, I didn't know what else to do. I really think dils mom had a lot to do with how dil reacted. Her mom has some strange ideas, that she no doubt imparted to her daughter, when her daughter wasn't herself. They are very superstitous, you can't put a hat on a table, you can't stand in a doorway with hands touching both sides of a door frame, you can't rock an empty cradle, (idly with you foot, or any other way), etc. All these things are bad luck. They BELIEVE that bad things WILL happen. It's hard to explain here, you really have to witness the behaviour to know how off the wall it is.
Marriedchick, when I first met my hubbys family, It was like, what the heck?? My family was quiet & reserved, we didn't hug either, his family was loud & boisterous & they hugged, a lot. My mil was the total opposite of my mother, mil had an opinion on everthing, not just with me, with everyone, my mother had an opinion about nothing, unless it was me. Hubbys family always had people stopping by, my family had no one. There was a lot to adjust to, but hubbys family was fun, mine were conservative, my family was about show, hubby's family were "what you see is what you get", I was so different from them, they were so different from me. I was 17 when I first met them, very young. Maybe that's why I was able to adjust to some of their ways because I was so young. I liked how open they were, while not liking how loud. I made up my mind to accept them simply because they were my hubby's family & HE loved them, & I LOVED him. That's it. We've had ups & downs, everyone does, but I never, ever stopped my mil from holding her gc, spending time with her gc or her son. Never ever tried to stop my hubby from going to see his family if he wanted to, what right would I have to do that? If you don't like, or get along with your mil, would you stop your husband or your children from spending time with them also? If so, why? I am trying so hard to understand my dil, to accept her for who she is, just as I did my mil, but, like Pen, my dil doesn't make it easy. I'm still learning, still trying.
Anna,
Great post! Please don't beat yourself up over your reaction to your dil's bizzare behavior. You are such a sweet person, I'm sure whatever you said was mild compared to what other's reactions would have been. I just wanted to add that your ds is sooooooooo fortunate to have you and your dh. Oh, my! Can you imagine living through what he is living through without thinking you had someone to turn to (if need be) who loves you unconditionally as you do? And your gc. Don't think for a second that you aren't making a huge difference in their lives. If your ds feared that your dil would actually throw their baby in anger, omg!!!!!! There's no telling what your gc have felt or seen. You are their refuge. They know you love them dearly - that you will always be there for them if they need help. You are such a blessing and your posts reflect nothing but love. Take care and know that you are making a huge difference even if you don't see it right away. Love and hugs, Hope
Quote from: 1Glitterati on April 30, 2010, 02:04:04 PM
Quote from: Anna on April 30, 2010, 05:55:11 AM
If you don't like, or get along with your mil, would you stop your husband or your children from spending time with them also? If so, why?
Anna...this is a very generally response...and I don't think it applies to your situation, but here goes as to what the thinking may be.
I do feel flares of anger when dh spends time with his parents. After what they did...and aren't sorry for...and won't say sorry for--I just can't believe he has anything to do with them. But...that's his choice.
As far as kids...why would anyone, if they didn't like and trust their mil and thought their mil treated them badly let the kids be around that person? Why should you let people who treat you badly have the pleasure of your children's company? I think that's what some dils think. I also think some dils do it as punishment. I know I think both about my ils...but they do see my kids. I don't want them to...but I allow it.
There was a period of about a year and a half that they didn't, but now they do. I'll be honest...and I'm NOT ashamed to admit this, if it weren't for the fact that ods already knew them and wanted to be around them then they wouldn't see the kids at all. Yds was too young at the time to realize anything was wrong...and the ils had never spent much time around him anyway. If it weren't for the fact that ods wanted to see them AND we lived next door...I wouldn't let them see the kids. They betrayed us. They hurt us. They aren't sorry. They don't have good judgement. Frankly, I don't want them around my kids at all...but ods loves them so I suck it up. I do it for ods and only for that reason.
I stay away from my ils as much as possible. I don't want to be around them. I no longer like them---and once I loved them. In fact, had a relationship with my mil very much like what you used to have with your dil. I surely do not trust them---and never will again. I won't see them for dh. There are limits even to love. I will not expose myself to people who have deliberately hurt me to please my husband or anyone else.
Glitter, thanks for your honesty. No disrespect intended, but how does your dh feel about your dc seeing his parents? Would he have felt good about not allowing your dc to see his parents if your ods didn't ask about being with them? I was just curious if his feelings about whether or not his dc see his parents are the same as yours........and if they are different than yours, are his feelings considered as half of the equation? I can vividly feel your pain about what happened with your ILs and wish for peace in your life. Bitterness eats at the soul and causes the bearer as much hurt as the receiver. I care about you. Hugs, Hope
Hope - It seems to me that we all have to think about self-care. How are we ever going to treat others fairly and kindly if we haven't found a way to give ourselves the same consideration. Doors sometimes have to be closed. Some things can't be ignored. Sending love...
Quote from: Anna on April 30, 2010, 08:59:21 AM
Hi marriedchick. That's just it, my dil & I had a wonderful relationship, we spent a lot of time together, & enjoyed each others company immensely. We laughed together, talked to each other all the time, I even sided with her on several occasions, cause I DO know my son. I loved my dil, that's why I cried buckets of tears when she seemed to change so drastically. When she started to push us away. I knew my dil for 6 1/2 years before they had children. All those years we got along great, it wasn't till after our first gc was born. I'm trying to tell you that dil DID like me, she sought out my company all the time. That I'm trying to come to terms with what happened to her, to us, to me, after she had children.
I don't hold my dil solely responsible for things that happen, altho I think dil can help. Most men are not good at buying cards, calling mom, passing along whatever, this does not excuse them, by any means. The male brain is just different than ours. I'm the one who buys cards for BOTH sides of our family. My hubby just doesn't have time, nor would he even remember when his moms birthday is. As a mom myself, I know how hurtful it is to not be acknowleged on a birthday or mother's day, so I go buy the card for hubby's mom, it's a small thing, & it means so much to hubby that I do this, & to his mom when she receives it. My hubby is a very loving person, he's just forgets dates. If you know that your mil would hold you responsible for receiving a card, why would you not go buy it?
I think that all dils are required to spend some time with their in-laws, they did marry our sons. What I don't get is why my dil doesn't want us to have visits with our son if she can't be there, why he can't attend a family function if she has to work, why he can't go anywhere with us, without her. Son seems almost afraid if he's running even a minute late, he's always telling his children, when he's picking them up from my house after babysitting, practically yelling at them to hurry to get their hats, coats, & boots on cause Mommy's going to get off work soon & they have to be home before she gets there, he's in like a panic mode !! If dil doesn't want to spend time with us, then why does she get so upset about us wanting to spend time with son & gc without her there?
My son is not a victim, he chose the relationship he is in, & you know what, we loved the girl he chose to marry, we welcomed her with open arms, & she accepted us too. Something happened to dil after her first child was born. I am not the only person that has seen this change in her. In fact almost everyone who knew her, saw this change in her. :'(
Anna,
Your situation is sad. It sounds like an extreme case of control by your dil. It's so hard as a parent to see this happen b/c we have absolutely no say, yet we see the harm it is doing to our ds and gc. If we even suggest to ds what we think he should do, it will most likely be unwanted advice. I only wish with all my heart that your ds would tell his dw that she has two choices:
(1) Get immediate and intense therapy - or - (2) Start looking for a divorce lawyer.
How can it be healthy for your gc to see this model of what a relationship is? They are taking it all in and learning from it. Thank God they have you and your dh to learn from as well. They have exposure to more than the dysfunctional family life in their own home. Thank the Lord they come to you for loving care when dil/ds are at work. Wish it was different for you. Sending you big hugs (((((Anna))))).
Hope
Quote from: Hope on May 01, 2010, 12:06:05 PM
Glitter, thanks for your honesty. No disrespect intended, but how does your dh feel about your dc seeing his parents? Would he have felt good about not allowing your dc to see his parents if your ods didn't ask about being with them? I was just curious if his feelings about whether or not his dc see his parents are the same as yours........and if they are different than yours, are his feelings considered as half of the equation? I can vividly feel your pain about what happened with your ILs and wish for peace in your life. Bitterness eats at the soul and causes the bearer as much hurt as the receiver. I care about you. Hugs, Hope
Hope...I don't sense any disrespect ... and I hope my initial response wasn't perceived as disrespectful by anyone...because that wasn't my intent.
DH does want the kids to spend time with his parents. I get that. I'm at a point now where I can "see" it. There was a time (the 18 months) where he didn't care if they saw the kids or not--because he was so hurt and angry. I have moved VERY far from where I used to be. There was a time when this was hill to die on and I possibly would have destroyed my marriage over it. Sounds horrible, but at the time, the only thing that kept me from doing it was knowing that the ils would actually get more time with the kids if we split.
We're not at that point now...and that's a very good thing. I can't even pretend I was always rational during everything that went on, because I wasn't. Flat out there was a point where I just wanted them to drop dead so they'd be gone. Then I reached the point where I just wanted them to hurt as much as we did...oh heck...as much as
I did. Neither of those things has happened. I will never get what I want to resolve the situation...for them to be sincerely sorry and apologize. So, I choose to remove myself from the equation as much as possible.
As to what would I do if ods didn't want to see them? HOnestly, I'd probably fight with dh and damage my marriage. I don't have enough forgiveness in my heart at this time to do it for dh. I CAN do it for my son, but there are limitations even there. This whole thing has damaged and altered my marriage in ways that I don't think will ever be truly fixed. Don't get me wrong...things are good...but I will never, EVER trust my dh 100% again. Can't. Won't. He initially chose his parents point of view over mine...and I WAS right. He's allowed them to remain in his life and is working on strengthening his relationship with them. Everything has been swept under the rug. They choose--all three of them---to act as if it never happened. I can't respect or get behind that. It makes me think less of my husband. It made me lose respect for him. And, he knows that and it hurts him. The look on his face and in his voice did cause me pain when he realized that and verbalized it to me. Still doesn't do anything to rectify the loss. I DO respect and trust him, but not 100% as I did before. I'm sure that there are things he feels about me that are no longer 100%. How could there not be?
It is what it is. I do love him. He is the only man I have ever loved. I've been with him over 20 years. He's a GREAT dad. I can't imagine my life without him. I want to be married to him until the day we die. And all of that is not enough to make me lay down and let his parents walk on me. It is not enough to make me accept what they did with no acceptance of responsibility on their part. I will not roll over and make nice to people who hurt me or dh the way they purposefully did. Nothing is enough for that. Because if I did that I couldn't bear to face myself knowing that I willingly let someone abuse me just to make someone else happy. Nope. Can't do it. Won't do it. Can't respect it.
ETA...Hope, you are so right about bitterness. It may be amazing to think it...but I am light years away from where I used to be. Oh, I'm still bitter--no doubt, but it's SO much tamer than what it used to be. It's the difference between a rabid tiger and a house cat with merely a bad attitude.
Quote from: Mominwaiting on May 01, 2010, 08:53:21 AM
Luise this is so true,and there is not a day goes by,when i'm struggling to understand what happened with my wonderful relationship with my OS,i think of you.
You are the biggest bundle of love i have ever had the chance to know.And you are loved by sooooooo many!
You had great relationships with DIL's and not so great with some DIL's.I'm sure you reached out with love to all of them.I think some people can not love back as many people,as others can.
They only have room for a few.
MIW, So true - Luise is a blessing to each of us. Her wisdom shines through in every post. When Luise speaks, I listen.
I hope in time your relationship with your OS is restored. Stay strong and know we are here for you! Hugs, Hope
Thank you for your kind thoughts Hope.
I'm really excited to get to see my YS,both my sons have huge hearts.It's just my OS can't show us any compassion any more.Very sad,but true!
What i would really,really love for Mothers day is to watch my two sons play golf,just spending some quality time togther and having fun.........that would just warm my heart!......And the only thing that would make it even better,would be having my GC ride in the golf cart with me,while i watch!
Is that asking for to much?
What a great picture that presents! ;D
Thank you Lusie! :)
1Glitterati, your honesty is a breath of fresh air. Not all of us DILs are from that time where you had to 'make nice' because if you were honest, you were 'mean and disrespectful'. I think it's a real shocker to hear someone be so honest about people who are 100% sure they have done everything the right way. I appreciate those who can hear a different perspective without telling someone they are wrong, I can also appreciate those who are right about it all, or at least that's what they think. Well good luck on that one. Maybe one day some of you will except that your DIL just isn't that into you. Anyone ever heard of the book or movie?? It's true, sometimes she's just not that into you. Doesn't make DILs wrong, I don't think so anyway, it makes them normal people who can choose who they allow in their lives and at what capacity. I'm sure someone is saying, "I've never had anyone not like me before." I will respectfully disagree with that, they just didn't tell you.
The conclusion that I have drawn from this thread is that some people are really stuck in their ways of thinking and will never see another point of view. Others are very open to a new perspective as well as admitting any wrong doing even if your DIL isn't running to tell you. I think some know the truth but it's a hard pill to swallow. None of us are perfect nor have we done everything perfectly in regards to how we treat people. Just because it's 'nice' to you doesn't mean it's the same for anyone else. Thanks ladies, you've helped a lot!!!
You are sure right about the "make-nice" generation(s.) Expectations laid on another person can be lethal. And when they are ignored...oh, oh! War!
It can work the other way around as well. My eldest son's wife...and the mother of my two fabulous grandsons, wanted me to be the quintessential grandmother and I wasn't interested. I was at the peak of my career and into a fulfilling marriage (at last.) I'm just not the "flower on her chin, baby on her shoulder type of grandma." Shame on me! :o
HAHA!! Luise, you sound like my mother. She has 20+ grandchildren, there was no way possible she could have been that quintessential grandmother either. Nothing wrong with that at all!! You can spend your time as you please and still be a wonderful grandmother, in spite of what others may think. All grandmas/MILs don't stay at home, knit and have grandkids around all the time, all DILs don't want to be best friends or plan for family annihilation either, lol
Quote from: MarriedChick09 on May 03, 2010, 09:07:26 AM
I think it's a real shocker to hear someone be so honest about people who are 100% sure they have done everything the right way. ... Maybe one day some of you will except that your DIL just isn't that into you. Anyone ever heard of the book or movie?? .....The conclusion that I have drawn from this thread is that some people are really stuck in their ways of thinking and will never see another point of view. Others are very open to a new perspective as well as admitting any wrong doing even if your DIL isn't running to tell you. I think some know the truth but it's a hard pill to swallow. .....
MarriedChick, I didn't come to the same conclusion reading this thread. What I read are posts from women who are honestly puzzled by a sudden change in behavior and treatment by DIL. I'm sensing some frustration in your post; are you OK? I hope you haven't had an unhappy episode with MIL recently :( Sending good thoughts your way...
I know this isn't all about me, but I feel I need to respond. If DIL doesn't tell us what we've done wrong, or says it isn't anything we've done it's just who we are, how can we admit wrongdoing? As I and others here have said, we'd love to have something tangible to apologize for, but playing guessing games isn't productive. We spend more time than we should trying to come up with something. I'm not afraid of bitter pills, but if there's nothing there I can't swallow it.
I have yet to hear any DIL admit that in some rare cases a DIL might have an agenda from day one to "cut DS from the herd" and so isn't motivated to help create a working relationship with the ILs. Honesty works both ways :)
Take care, I'm thinking of you.
I think anyone who is 100% sure of anything is dangerous! :P
And this is weird...but my "neglected" grandsons think I'm great! ???
Luise, I had to laugh at the"quintessential grandma" image. In our house, the term was "cookie baking grandma," and my mother definitely wasn't one, nor was my now-xh's stepmother. His mother was, but she had passed away a few years earlier, and he missed the idea of her very much, and missed that experience on our son's behalf, so my mother and his step-mother got a lot of criticism over that from him. I am so very much not cookie-baking grandma material either, nor am I really a cookie-baking mom. My son has learned to value me as I am (although there was a brief period where he compared me unfavorably to his best friend's stay at home mom, which hurt a lot), but I do worry sometimes that a future DIL will be disappointed that I don't meet her image of what a MIL/GM should be. People have so many unspoken expectations and dreams, that they themselves don't always realize what they are until something doesn't meet them, and there are hurt feelings.
1Glitterati
QuoteI will never get what I want to resolve the situation...for them to be sincerely sorry and apologize. So, I choose to remove myself from the equation as much as possible.
Sometimes people apologize in their actions?
QuoteAs to what would I do if ods didn't want to see them? HOnestly, I'd probably fight with dh and damage my marriage. I don't have enough forgiveness in my heart at this time to do it for dh.
you may not now, however, time changes perspectives, and the older you get, you realize time is running short...and to waste life on not forgiving, seems so out of nature's way...
QuoteI CAN do it for my son, but there are limitations even there.
again, I think as time goes by, you'll see things differently...
QuoteThis whole thing has damaged and altered my marriage in ways that I don't think will ever be truly fixed. Don't get me wrong...things are good...but I will never, EVER trust my dh 100% again.
Please don't say never...it's a waste of happiness to feel this way...and I know I cannot tell you how to feel...however, it doesn't get you anywhere...
QuoteCan't. Won't. He initially chose his parents point of view over mine...and I WAS right. He's allowed them to remain in his life and is working on strengthening his relationship with them.
We cannot expect another human being to think and feel like we do...he's different...and while you might see it as choosing his parent's point of view over you...well, I can understand how you feel...I was there once...however, he chose you and loves you more then his parents, it's just that some human beings feel a loyalty to theyr'e parents no matter what...others don't...
QuoteEverything has been swept under the rug. They choose--all three of them---to act as if it never happened.
to get past it, people do this...forgive and forget...
QuoteI can't respect or get behind that. It makes me think less of my husband. It made me lose respect for him. And, he knows that and it hurts him. The look on his face and in his voice did cause me pain when he realized that and verbalized it to me. Still doesn't do anything to rectify the loss. I DO respect and trust him, but not 100% as I did before. I'm sure that there are things he feels about me that are no longer 100%. How could there not be?
No relationship ever stays the same, it is constantly changing and evolving...you may feel this now, however, there may be a whole lot of good that comes out of this...your growing together...loving each other even when it's hard to love each other...things will change down the road if you work at it...and try and let things go...I know, how you feel, your afraid to let your guard down afraid to be hurt again by his disloyalty...they are his parents and you can never change that....what you can change is your attitude towards this whole thing...which would make your marriage much stronger, more intimate mentally...
QuoteIt is what it is. I do love him. He is the only man I have ever loved. I've been with him over 20 years. He's a GREAT dad. I can't imagine my life without him. I want to be married to him until the day we die. And all of that is not enough to make me lay down and let his parents walk on me. It is not enough to make me accept what they did with no acceptance of responsibility on their part. I will not roll over and make nice to people who hurt me or dh the way they purposefully did. Nothing is enough for that. Because if I did that I couldn't bear to face myself knowing that I willingly let someone abuse me just to make someone else happy.
It's not about making them happy, it's about giving yourself peace...letting it go and going forward....
QuoteETA...Hope, you are so right about bitterness. It may be amazing to think it...but I am light years away from where I used to be. Oh, I'm still bitter--no doubt, but it's SO much tamer than what it used to be. It's the difference between a rabid tiger and a house cat with merely a bad attitude.
Love is such a healing process...loving when it's most difficult to love...I think by holding onto this attitude, in your own way, you may be trying to pay him back for hurting you...it's not the hurt that's so awful...it's the after effects and how one handles it...life is not always fair, and will never live up to our expectations, until we give into all the bitterness...once we can let go of that, we begin to grow in a way that we never before thought was possible.
I forgave my DIL way before we spoke...and when I did that...and don't ask me how, the only way I can explain it is...that I didn't like who I was because of it...and it kept eating away at me...not her, not my son, but me...so...
I finally accepted the situation, every ounce of it, as something I co-created. Even when I thought I hadn't done anything...there HAD to be something I did, that helped this along? (and I'm not saying you did anything wrong...it's just the way I dealt with it) I finally stopped blaming and hating and raging and just sat with it until I owned it. This bitterness is owning you...don't allow that to happen...trust you husband...your never going to be able to protect yourself from being hurt 100% of the time. Things happen, people do things for many reasons...they don't mean to, but they do...it's very difficult being a human being...what I'm trying to say is...if you are able to somehow deal with this and see it from a different perspective, your relationship will grow from this...you don't have to forget what happened, but in order to go forward, you must forgive...believe me...forgiveness is the key to peace and serenity in the self.
I hope something I've said helps...
1Glitterati
please get the book "Gift from the Sea" by Anne Morrow Lindbergh and then after you read her book, research her and her life, on the internet...Her book gave me such a whole new perspective...and inserts from her book which is beautiful....
"Woman must come of age by herself...this is the essence of "coming of age" to learn how to stand alone...She must learn not to depend on another, nor to feeel she must prove her strength by competing with another...
Perhaps both men and women in America may hunger, in our material outward active masculine culture, for the supposedly feminine qualities of heart, mind and spirit...qualities which are actuallly neither masculine nor feminine, but simply human qualities that have been neglected. It is growth along these lines that will make us whole...enabling the individual to become world to himself/herself. and this...
QuoteHere on the island, I find that I can sit with a friend without talking, sharing the days' last sliver of pale green light on the horizon, or the whorls in a small white shell, or the dark scar left in a dazzling night sky by a shooting star. Then communication become communion and one is nourished as one never is by words.
Her book is very short, and can be read in one hour or two at the most, and such an enlightening, which can be applied to our every day trials and tribulations, no matter what they are...
I wish you peace...
Creme
Quote from: cremebrulee on May 03, 2010, 02:47:38 PM
1Glitterati
QuoteI will never get what I want to resolve the situation...for them to be sincerely sorry and apologize. So, I choose to remove myself from the equation as much as possible.
Sometimes people apologize in their actions? They haven't done that either. They've only acted as if it never happened and we should all be best buddies again.
QuoteAs to what would I do if ods didn't want to see them? HOnestly, I'd probably fight with dh and damage my marriage. I don't have enough forgiveness in my heart at this time to do it for dh.
you may not now, however, time changes perspectives, and the older you get, you realize time is running short...and to waste life on not forgiving, seems so out of nature's way...
QuoteI CAN do it for my son, but there are limitations even there.
again, I think as time goes by, you'll see things differently...
QuoteThis whole thing has damaged and altered my marriage in ways that I don't think will ever be truly fixed. Don't get me wrong...things are good...but I will never, EVER trust my dh 100% again.
Please don't say never...it's a waste of happiness to feel this way...and I know I cannot tell you how to feel...however, it doesn't get you anywhere... Trust has to be earned back.
QuoteCan't. Won't. He initially chose his parents point of view over mine...and I WAS right. He's allowed them to remain in his life and is working on strengthening his relationship with them.
We cannot expect another human being to think and feel like we do...he's different...and while you might see it as choosing his parent's point of view over you...well, I can understand how you feel...I was there once...however, he chose you and loves you more then his parents, it's just that some human beings feel a loyalty to theyr'e parents no matter what...others don't... I'm an others don't. I will not support my parents no matter what. If they are wrong...they are and I tell them. If my parents had done what his did I would have cut them out of our life totally. And he would have expected me to do it.
QuoteEverything has been swept under the rug. They choose--all three of them---to act as if it never happened.
to get past it, people do this...forgive and forget...What his parents want is the forget part. They don't care about forgiveness because they don't think they've done anything wrong. I've moved light years from where I was...but I don't know if I'll ever forgive them. AND forgiveness does not mean that I would again make them a part of my life or be a part of theirs. Forgiveness would simply mean I would let it go---not that I would give them an opportunity to do it again.
QuoteI can't respect or get behind that. It makes me think less of my husband. It made me lose respect for him. And, he knows that and it hurts him. The look on his face and in his voice did cause me pain when he realized that and verbalized it to me. Still doesn't do anything to rectify the loss. I DO respect and trust him, but not 100% as I did before. I'm sure that there are things he feels about me that are no longer 100%. How could there not be?
No relationship ever stays the same, it is constantly changing and evolving...you may feel this now, however, there may be a whole lot of good that comes out of this...your growing together...loving each other even when it's hard to love each other...things will change down the road if you work at it...and try and let things go...I know, how you feel, your afraid to let your guard down afraid to be hurt again by his disloyalty...they are his parents and you can never change that....what you can change is your attitude towards this whole thing...which would make your marriage much stronger, more intimate mentally... And, I'm not ready to do that. I'm not ready to sacrifice my self respect so that he can feel better. He willingly sacrificed his in the hopes it would satisfy his parents. It didn't---because he couldn't "get me line" and make me do what they wanted. And, believe me...that's a new and novel and unwelcome experience for my fil.
QuoteIt is what it is. I do love him. He is the only man I have ever loved. I've been with him over 20 years. He's a GREAT dad. I can't imagine my life without him. I want to be married to him until the day we die. And all of that is not enough to make me lay down and let his parents walk on me. It is not enough to make me accept what they did with no acceptance of responsibility on their part. I will not roll over and make nice to people who hurt me or dh the way they purposefully did. Nothing is enough for that. Because if I did that I couldn't bear to face myself knowing that I willingly let someone abuse me just to make someone else happy.
It's not about making them happy, it's about giving yourself peace...letting it go and going forward.... I do get that...I KNOW that...but again...forgiveness in no way implies I'd let them back in my life.
QuoteETA...Hope, you are so right about bitterness. It may be amazing to think it...but I am light years away from where I used to be. Oh, I'm still bitter--no doubt, but it's SO much tamer than what it used to be. It's the difference between a rabid tiger and a house cat with merely a bad attitude.
Love is such a healing process...loving when it's most difficult to love...I think by holding onto this attitude, in your own way, you may be trying to pay him back for hurting you...it's not the hurt that's so awful...it's the after effects and how one handles it...life is not always fair, and will never live up to our expectations, until we give into all the bitterness...once we can let go of that, we begin to grow in a way that we never before thought was possible.
I forgave my DIL way before we spoke...and when I did that...and don't ask me how, the only way I can explain it is...that I didn't like who I was because of it...and it kept eating away at me...not her, not my son, but me...so...
I finally accepted the situation, every ounce of it, as something I co-created. Even when I thought I hadn't done anything...there HAD to be something I did, that helped this along? (and I'm not saying you did anything wrong...it's just the way I dealt with it) I finally stopped blaming and hating and raging and just sat with it until I owned it. This is going to sound bad...but I did NOT co-create this situation. I didn't. Neither did dh. Someone attempted to, and DID, defraud us. We took them to task for it, fired them, and the ils were on the criminal's side. That's not a two way situation. I get angry even typing about it now. At this instant...if I were to own anything...it would be that they are flaming @ssh@les.
This bitterness is owning you...don't allow that to happen...trust you husband...your never going to be able to protect yourself from being hurt 100% of the time. Things happen, people do things for many reasons...they don't mean to, but they do...it's very difficult being a human being...what I'm trying to say is...if you are able to somehow deal with this and see it from a different perspective, your relationship will grow from this...you don't have to forget what happened, but in order to go forward, you must forgive...believe me...forgiveness is the key to peace and serenity in the self.
I hope something I've said helps... Forgiveness is a powerful thing, and maybe I'll get there one day. Not there yet. May not ever get there. Some things that are done can't be undone. They can be forgiven...but the consequences remain. I DID love my ils once upon a time. I was very close with my mil. That's why this all hurt so much. Where once the love became hatred it is now simply dead. It's not coming back. I don't want it back, and, frankly, they don't deserve to have my love back.
1Glitterati
I'm not suggesting you be best buds with your inlaws ever again, and perhaps you will never be able to forget what they've done, it was a horrible cruel and unthinking thing for them to do...what I'm suggesting, is, to work on you and your attitude...
and in my post, please know, I didn't mean you had ownership in this...I was explaining to you what I felt and did...however, you do now own the bitterness...that is the ownership you need to work on...
I know it's not easy...it took me years...but do you want to know something...for my very own personal growth, the situation with my DIL, did me wonders...it's difficult to explain...all during that whole time, I kept telling myself, "There is something in this for me to learn, there has to be"...and there was....and I'm not suggesting your situation is the same, it's not...however, I owned the same bitterness, anger and hate...and wasted so many years...blaming, insteading of changing my attitude towards it...it clouded my whole outlook on life..it made me actually loose the perspective of colors...I saw greys, blacks and whites...it nearly ruined me, and I allowed it to...
When you do that, your husband will feel it...and know..no words will have to be spoken, it doesn't mean you have to be anyone that your not...it's a life lesson and growth process...something that I can't explain except that when I woke up from it...it seems like just yesterday it happened and my whole world began to change.
I feel your struggling with this spiritually and you don't like what it's done to you, to your relationship...but by God, you have the power to change it...and when you change your attitude...everything and everyone else changes around you.
for instance...your inlaws never saying I'm sorry....maybe, and believe me, this is a long shot, but I'm trying to make a point...maybe, this effected them in a way that scared them to...they may not ever say they are sorry...however, they may be....
darlin, it's not your job to worry about they're actions, or expect them to do as you would like them to do, it is your job, however, to somehow deal with this to the best of your ability so you can move on....with your life...
will you promise me to get the book and read it...please...and then think about it...then come back and tell me what you thought...
Ann Morrow Lindberg was an extremely exceptional woman, way ahead of her time, and believe me, she had every reason to be hateful and unforgiving...
Your inlaws, will pay they're own debts...don't allow them or they're actions to scar you for the rest of your life...you can forgive, but you never have to forget...there is a difference...and you do have choice in this...this will eat you up alive if you allow it to...and honestly, I know like me, right now you don't know how to get there...you want to, I can hear the sincerity in your words...and I do feel your pain...but, when you begin to understand what I'm talking about...when you allow this spiritual love in...it will heal...you...and you will see things in a different light...you may never be able to see them again, but you will be able to forgive them.
I can, today, forgive the man who sexually abused me when I was five years old...I don't want to go to my grave, hating, or feeling like I did when my DIL and I were having problems...She saved my life, and that situation between us, saved my life...my only question is, "why did it take me so long?"
Hugs to you
Creme
Quote from: cremebrulee on May 03, 2010, 03:36:23 PM
1Glitterati
however, you do now own the bitterness...that is the ownership you need to work on...
I absolutely agree with and realize that. I am light years away from where I used to be.
I don't hate or despise them any longer...but I am still angry with them. Anger has replaced rage, and hopefully, eventually, indifference will replace anger.
I am in a different place now than I was, and hopefully by next year and the year after that I will be in different places then, also.
Quote from: 1Glitterati on May 03, 2010, 03:47:13 PM
Quote from: cremebrulee on May 03, 2010, 03:36:23 PM
1Glitterati
however, you do now own the bitterness...that is the ownership you need to work on...
I absolutely agree with and realize that. I am light years away from where I used to be.
I don't hate or despise them any longer...but I am still angry with them. Anger has replaced rage, and hopefully, eventually, indifference will replace anger.
I am in a different place now than I was, and hopefully by next year and the year after that I will be in different places then, also.
you can't do it all alone...you need encouragement from people who are forgiving people...and to read books, like the one I suggested...
Life is easy, we're the ones that so darn hard...relationships ARE Hard...marriages are a constant work in progress...and they never stay the same, they always change, grow, evolve...into something more mature, more rewarding and can be a life gift...but it takes a lot of self help...a lot of work on the part of the individual...don't worry about him...worry about you, and progressing, moving on, growing and spiritually maturing....
again...I wish you nothing but goodness and peace...
Pen...LOL I really did laugh when I read your post. We are different people so we will come to different conclusions. Secondly, as I have said many times in this thread I'm very happy with how my life is right now and no I have not had any bad episodes with my MIL. I don't associate with her right now and that's what's best for me, really. Whether you think so or not it is. What was so poignant about the statement of your DIL not liking you? Do you think that's not possible? Or did you think I said that because I've had some bad moment with her, lol?? It's the truth as I see it, sometimes you just don't like certain people, maybe it's their personality, maybe it's how they talk to you or whatever. I'm sure none of you ladies have experienced that...I'm being sarcastic, lol (I'm having a very good day). But seriously, is it possible that your DIL just doesn't like you and isn't interested in you?? Please answer!!
Marriedchick, are you OK? You sound a little upset. I know exactly what it is like not to like my MIL. First of all the whole family were estranged. Nothing close about that family. I did meet her a few times before I got married. She wasn't a huggy, kissy person, even to her son, but I didn't think she had a problem with me. She didn't come to our wedding - exhusband thing. On the day we arrived home from our honeymoon she called DH and told him she hated me, she thought the wedding was a bad idea yadda, yadda. Of course dummy DH tells me. I never thought it at the time but years later I realized if DH had not mentioned the content of the phone call, I probably would have had a pretty good relationship with my MIL. Pitty really! Anyways, I could never get past that. I was more than civil with her. I showed her respect as a mother and a grandmother. I never warmed up to her though and when she died I didn't go to the funeral. It seems so silly now. I knew whatever she thought back then , or whatever she was going through at the time, it wasn't how she felt for most our marriage. I was a lot younger and less mature back then and if I could do it differently I would have. Some of the DILs may not understand yet. Knowledge comes with youth. Wisdom comes with age.
Wisdom comes with age? We can only hope. ;) I live in a large senior community and I can see instances where wisdom never even entered the picture. ;D
And don't you think we have wise days? Or even certain subjects that we handle with more wisdom than others? I think wisdom is pretty subjective and often, for me, fleeting.
And then there's the coping thing. I can cope beautifully at times but not always. And when I can't cope, wisdom abandons me.
Isn't life a hoot?
Oh Luise,this is soooo true for me too.The coping part :)
Luise, you are right. Wisdom is not the right word. I think what I was trying to say is it takes a lot of living to finally get things right. At least it did in my case. Maybe I was just a slow learner, LOL!
Lol, I'm having wonderful as I said before, I'm passing my networking class with an A!! WONDERFUL DAY!! Anywho, is it possible that a DIL just doesn't like her MIL? Why has no one answered that question? My MIL does this to me, I say one thing but she glosses over it and proceeds to tell me otherwise. I can't stand that, lol. So can you handle it if your DIL just doesn't like you? Would you still pursue a relationship or let sleeping dogs lie and except how she feels?
I already accepted the fact my DIL doesn't like me.But i still love my son and GC and deserve a relationship with them.
MarriedChick, I thought maybe something had happened recently to upset you. You didn't sound like your usual self here, that's all. You seem especially feisty today ;) It seemed as if you wanted to tangle with someone. I'm just glad to hear you're doing well.
Your question to me has been anwered many times. Sometimes I feel as though a more careful read is needed. I don't have an illusion that everyone must like me, and I don't want to be BFFs with DIL. I don't expect her to like me, nor do I care. She and I share very few interests, and our values are quite different as well. What I do care about is maintaining a relationship with DS, and if DIL is unwilling to spend time with us it makes it difficult to see him since he's a good guy and wants to please her.
Regarding an earlier post about honesty, what's wrong with civility and common courtesy if they keep society from turning into a Mad Max movie? People don't have to like each other, but manners and compassion keep them from annihilating each other.
Now, please answer a question for me: Do you think it's possible that a DIL could have an agenda from day one to "cut DS from the herd?"
You're right MominWaiting, that's not right for you to have to deal with that. I think if it was as important to your son as it is to you, he would make sure you were included. I really think sons need a lot more blame. My husband can't keep me from people I love and vice versa, I have never and will never do that. Your son might regret this later on down the line. Yes, some DILs make it so hard but the sons is the one really dealing with the struggle, up close and personal. Hope it gets better for you!
Ehhh, some people aren't used to me. I'm used to that, lol. My MIL always thought I was angry until she realized I came from a very colorful family and when we get together, hold on to your hats!! We are a lively bunch!! Especially the women in my family, we don't bite our tongues...at all.
To answer your question...YES, I'm positive there are women out there like that. I had a friend who would always tell me about how she wanted her in-laws out of her life and that her husband was better than his family. She would say that he deserved a better family. Well that person is out of my life and she is divorced. She was a long time best friend, but I couldn't support her through her divorce and our friendship has since ended (other reasons too). She did her husband wrong from day one and it got worse from there. Granted, they were 20 and 21 when they got married and very inexperienced, but she was still wrong for her part in it.
There are women who are like this, they might have a superiority complex or just be that conniving and deceitful. Why they do it, I couldn't even begin to tell you why, I'm not like that so I don't know. I think it's kind of stupid to try to tear someone away from people whom they love and love them. Those are the people they will go to when you (wife/husband) gets kicked to the curb finally. Why fight it? Why try to tear something down that was not yours to build? I don't know. That's what I meant about honesty. More people need to be honest about their intentions but that's wishful thinking. That's why I posted, we all need to be honesty, not just MILs but ALL people. Hope that helps a little.
Good thread. Are we complete on this? Wanna move on? If so I will close it.
Are you closing spending time with extended family?? I would like this to stay open, maybe more DILs might post. Is this post bothering you? Why are you so anxious to close it but other posts are still open and this one is still being commented? Just wondering, if you want to close it, its your site, do what you want.
Quote from: DDM on May 03, 2010, 06:11:02 PM
Marriedchick, are you OK? You sound a little upset. I know exactly what it is like not to like my MIL. First of all the whole family were estranged. Nothing close about that family. I did meet her a few times before I got married. She wasn't a huggy, kissy person, even to her son, but I didn't think she had a problem with me. She didn't come to our wedding - exhusband thing. On the day we arrived home from our honeymoon she called DH and told him she hated me, she thought the wedding was a bad idea yadda, yadda. Of course dummy DH tells me. I never thought it at the time but years later I realized if DH had not mentioned the content of the phone call, I probably would have had a pretty good relationship with my MIL. Pitty really! Anyways, I could never get past that. I was more than civil with her. I showed her respect as a mother and a grandmother. I never warmed up to her though and when she died I didn't go to the funeral. It seems so silly now. I knew whatever she thought back then , or whatever she was going through at the time, it wasn't how she felt for most our marriage. I was a lot younger and less mature back then and if I could do it differently I would have. Some of the DILs may not understand yet. Knowledge comes with youth. Wisdom comes with age.
I liked this post...it shows you don't fear admitting that you wished you had gone...and the understanding, that whatever it was she was going thru at the time, she probably didn't mean to attack you, however, unfortunately, she did...it sounds to me, like your not only very understanding, but also realize, that people do say things they don't mean, under duress and stress...was it right for her to say that to you son, no...maybe it was misdirected anger....I am wondering if she was so angry at herself for not attending her son's wedding, not to mentiion, she was probably worrying about what other people would think of her...but anyway, I just wanted to say, I was so impressed by your post....
Creme
I got my wires crossed. Please excuse. Sending love...
Quote from: MarriedChick09 on May 03, 2010, 08:15:08 PM
There are women who are like this, they might have a superiority complex or just be that conniving and deceitful. Why they do it, I couldn't even begin to tell you why, I'm not like that so I don't know. I think it's kind of stupid to try to tear someone away from people whom they love and love them. Those are the people they will go to when you (wife/husband) gets kicked to the curb finally. Why fight it? Why try to tear something down that was not yours to build? I don't know. That's what I meant about honesty. More people need to be honest about their intentions but that's wishful thinking. That's why I posted, we all need to be honesty, not just MILs but ALL people. Hope that helps a little.
They do it for several reasons...not just one...the first reason is, they want to cut off your network of support, so they are in full control of your feelings...your life....then begins the programming....they begin to chip away at your feelings of self worth and independence...
so that you begin to rely on only them...they make decissions for you...the domance is very real...they will try to stagnate any progression you'd like to make, for instance, going to night school to better yourself...they want to prevent you from depending on self or anyone else but them...
Anywho, is it possible that a DIL just doesn't like her MIL? Why has no one answered that question? My MIL does this to me, I say one thing but she glosses over it and proceeds to tell me otherwise. I can't stand that, lol.
I think more than a few have responded to your question. In general terms the answer is obvious - anything is possible. However when one responds in terms of their personal experience it can be much more complex as the question is not only if she dislikes you but 'why'. I'm sure we have all encountered people that we just take an instant dislike to and vise-versa.
So can you handle it if your DIL just doesn't like you? Would you still pursue a relationship or let sleeping dogs lie and except how she feels?
If your DIL 'just doesn't like you" for no particular reason, I don't think you have any choice but to accept/handle it. You can't fix a problem that isn't yours. I can certainly understand why a MIL in this situation would try to pursue and build some sort of relationship with their DIL. She is part of your life whether you like it or not. Sometimes you just have to make the best of a bad situation.
First, Pen, you get so many bonus points for the Mad Max reference.
Second, if there are people who think they're really Klingons trapped in a human's body, people who will only speak languages found in Lord of the Rings, and people who think the earth is actually flat, then there must also be DILs who want to cut off their DH from his family for no other reason that she wants to. I must say I think they're as prevelent and the others I categorized them with, but I do think they exist.
What do I think most cases stem from....a combination of things. First, I think that many DILs will always be more comfortable with their family than with her ILs. Yes, there are exceptions, but as a general rule. So a DIL will gravitate to them when she needs advice, or a lunch partner, or someone to watch the kids for an hour while she runs an errand. And I don't think it's an either/or thing. It's not a "I have to have either my ILs or my mom, I'll get my mom and spite them Ha ha ha ha" idea. It's....I need to go to the store...I'll call my mom. Or what should I do for lunch today...I could eat leftovers, make a sandwich, or see what my sister's doing. If it were your son asking the question, I'd see him saying the same thing, it would just mean your family and not hers.
I also think, despite the advances we've made in gender equality, the women are still required to be social secretaries and handle more of the housework and child care. But unlike before, they're more overworked and also expecting the man to carry his fair share. Women threw down the gauntlet in the 1960's by burning their bras. We're doing it by dropping the rope. We tell our husbands to handle it and then expect them to do so or suffer the consequences from their family. So when she makes playdates she makes them with her parents and cousins and expects him to handle things with his family. And she is the holiday point person for hers and he for his. And she picks up cards or gifts and mails them/delivers them for hers, and he for his. And he if he fails, his parents should be getting onto him. And in our case, his parents got onto both of us, and he decided it was better to just not bother with it (and eventually them) than to have to do the work required to make them happy.
Is that a DIL determined to get her ILs out of her life or just determined to get 6 hours of sleep most nights? If I added into my schedule the things that were needed to keep his parents happy, I wouldn't have the time to do anything that makes me happy (volunteer at church, cook meals from fresh ingredients which takes longer, go running each morning. I'm not talking about spa days or other extravagant things) and I wouldn't get anywhere near the rest I need.
I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes it's that the DIL has an agenda. Sometimes it's that she's just not that into you so she doesn't think about or want to go see you. Sometimes a MIL or FIL said something or did something that hurt enough to break her trust and until it's addressed nothing will change. Sometimes she just doesn't want the extra work so she expects her husband to handle it. Sometimes....well I could go on and on. But until you determine what the sometimes is, you're stuck.
Quoteclover
Second, if there are people who think they're really Klingons trapped in a human's body, people who will only speak languages found in Lord of the Rings, and people who think the earth is actually flat.
I will have you know young lady, that I not only speak languages from Lord of the Rings, but also Klingon :o
..and what in the world do you mean, the world isn't flat? :-[
gosh, people will try to tell you anything these days....
now I'm really confused, thank you very much ;D
Clover wrote:
<<I also think, despite the advances we've made in gender equality, the women are still required to be social secretaries and handle more of the housework and child care. But unlike before, they're more overworked and also expecting the man to carry his fair share. Women threw down the gauntlet in the 1960's by burning their bras. We're doing it by dropping the rope. We tell our husbands to handle it and then expect them to do so or suffer the consequences from their family. So when she makes playdates she makes them with her parents and cousins and expects him to handle things with his family. And she is the holiday point person for hers and he for his. And she picks up cards or gifts and mails them/delivers them for hers, and he for his. And he if he fails, his parents should be getting onto him. And in our case, his parents got onto both of us, and he decided it was better to just not bother with it (and eventually them) than to have to do the work required to make them happy. >>
I am in complete agreement with this. This is why my 'standard' advice is for MILs to work on their relationship with their sons.
My DH doesn't call his parents because when he does, they rag on him, for not calling, for not calling earlier, for not calling when DD is awake - whatever. They rag on him for not visiting and always nag on when we're going to visit again. It's just NOT pleasant for him to talk to them, so he doesn't. They don't call our house (their choice), so they only get to talk to him at work and he's *all business* at work.
The thing is, he doesn't talk about them, he doesn't suggest we visit (I've NEVER said 'no' to a visit), he doesn't send cards or gifts and any gifts are purchased at the last minute. As far as I'm concerned, this is the relationship HE wants with HIS parents and who am I to push them closer?
Well then, Q'pla!
QuoteAs far as I'm concerned, this is the relationship HE wants with HIS parents and who am I to push them closer?
I agree with that. Some ILs think it is always the womans "job". There is clearly a generational gap and instead of the older generation accepting the younger and realizing we can get things done just like you did but differently, younger women are attacked. OK so I don't care whether my MIL gets a card. She went many years before me without receiving one from me, I think she'll survive. OK so I don't call her when I need something or want to just "hang", so what, I already have a strong support system and friends with similar interests. MILs are so quick to judge and say that DILs have so much power when they want relationships with their sons not the DILs. The sons are the ones who need to be blamed for this happening. Especially if they "allowed" this woman to "destroy" their bond, why aren't they making a huge deal out of it too?? Where are the disgruntled men fussing about their Mother and Wife not getting along?? Someone said men just aren't capable of sending cards or remembering dates, or their brains are just wired differently...baloney. I'm not going to coddle my husband and pat his head and say "You know you love your mommy, call mommy and 'bond' with her." Not going to happen, I will not hold his hand, walk him to the door or make the phone call to his parents. Men are responsible for something in this. When will they take most of the blame??
I will bite and answer your question honestly, yes very possible to just not like your mother in law! Im in a complicated blended family, so let me explain what I mean, I have an ex husband who I have no contact with, his mother my ex mother in law can see my kids whenever she wants to and she does, even my dd who is not any relation to her and to her credit she loves all my kids so I let her do things with them. I do not really like her company or any of her hobbies, we have nothing in common, but I respect her as a person, an elder, a relative to my children and all she does for them. I do not like to do things with her, we are too different and she does not like me, but we agreed when the marriage ended that her and I were not divorced and tied to eachother like it or not. So while I do not like her or enjoy her company I make room for her in our lives out of love for her, and for my kids. I love my second husbands bio mom dearly, we always do things and talk and are there for eachother. We just click better. And then ther is Father in laws wife, I do not like her or respect her or care about her at all. She has hurt me so bad over the years and I tried to make myself care for her and like her but I do not. And I doubt I ever will, this is the only source of trauma and pain in the family and it is a huge issue for me, sorry I went on too long. I like the questions you ask and what you have said.
Thank you, Dirtyglassgirl. How you feel about you're ex MIL is exactly how I feel about my MIL. We just don't click and as much as I've tried I don't think we will. I've tried to just be civil with her but she pushes for more so I have withdrawn more and more until there is no relationship at all. One day hopefully, she'll back off and just be civil.
I am sorry but once again I am going to be honest, the way to any friendship is never to push, you be nice and welcoming and if it doesn't click right away you back off and wait for things to take their natural course. I would not like to be pushed around either, ofcourse you are now turned off by her if she is not civil. Hopefully like you said she will back off for a bit and just act civilly and if not then the rift will be. Some people just never learn, and not everyone has to like eachother, I tell my kids this all the time about kids at school. "no one is saying you must be their best friend and spend all your time with them, but you have to be reasonable and respectful to all." That is what I try to live like, but it is not easy! Believe me!
Quote from: clover on May 04, 2010, 09:14:15 AM
First, Pen, you get so many bonus points for the Mad Max reference.
Second, if there are people who think they're really Klingons trapped in a human's body, people who will only speak languages found in Lord of the Rings, and people who think the earth is actually flat, then there must also be DILs who want to cut off their DH from his family for no other reason that she wants to. I must say I think they're as prevelent and the others I categorized them with, but I do think they exist.
What do I think most cases stem from....a combination of things. First, I think that many DILs will always be more comfortable with their family than with her ILs. Yes, there are exceptions, but as a general rule. So a DIL will gravitate to them when she needs advice, or a lunch partner, or someone to watch the kids for an hour while she runs an errand. And I don't think it's an either/or thing. It's not a "I have to have either my ILs or my mom, I'll get my mom and spite them Ha ha ha ha" idea. It's....I need to go to the store...I'll call my mom. Or what should I do for lunch today...I could eat leftovers, make a sandwich, or see what my sister's doing. If it were your son asking the question, I'd see him saying the same thing, it would just mean your family and not hers.
I also think, despite the advances we've made in gender equality, the women are still required to be social secretaries and handle more of the housework and child care. But unlike before, they're more overworked and also expecting the man to carry his fair share. Women threw down the gauntlet in the 1960's by burning their bras. We're doing it by dropping the rope. We tell our husbands to handle it and then expect them to do so or suffer the consequences from their family. So when she makes playdates she makes them with her parents and cousins and expects him to handle things with his family. And she is the holiday point person for hers and he for his. And she picks up cards or gifts and mails them/delivers them for hers, and he for his. And he if he fails, his parents should be getting onto him. And in our case, his parents got onto both of us, and he decided it was better to just not bother with it (and eventually them) than to have to do the work required to make them happy.
Is that a DIL determined to get her ILs out of her life or just determined to get 6 hours of sleep most nights? If I added into my schedule the things that were needed to keep his parents happy, I wouldn't have the time to do anything that makes me happy (volunteer at church, cook meals from fresh ingredients which takes longer, go running each morning. I'm not talking about spa days or other extravagant things) and I wouldn't get anywhere near the rest I need.
I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes it's that the DIL has an agenda. Sometimes it's that she's just not that into you so she doesn't think about or want to go see you. Sometimes a MIL or FIL said something or did something that hurt enough to break her trust and until it's addressed nothing will change. Sometimes she just doesn't want the extra work so she expects her husband to handle it. Sometimes....well I could go on and on. But until you determine what the sometimes is, you're stuck.
Hey, thanks for the points.
As a former DIL I understand that DILs will usually be more comfortable with their own families - I was during marriage #1, but not during marriage #2. We don't want to take her parents place at all, and I don't want to go out to lunch or do any of those other things. If she asked, I'd go to honor her attempt at forging a relationship, but I'm not expecting it or even desiring it.
As a modern woman myself who has always worked and had kids in many activities, I have an inkling how valuable DILs time is (no kids yet for her, though.) When we get together it's always at my house although it's more work for me (I'm employed and busy) and for DH who also works and has other things that take up his time. Is her time more valuable? Maybe to her, but I also think she doesn't want us to sully her sanctuary (my house isn't my sanctuary? Come on!) We've never been invited to their house except to help them move.
Holiday point person? She certainly is, and she and her family take up all the vacation time leaving us high and dry. DS finally stood up and complained, so it's a little better but certainly not equal. We feel lucky to get what we get.
I don't want to be BFFs, I don't want to call every day or even every week, or text or email or join FB. What I want is for DS to feel comfortable spending time with his FOO when he wants w/o feeling like he's betraying DIL. I want her to be civil and polite when she's in my home. And yes, I do feel stuck. I guess that's the point a lot of MILs are trying to make - we're stuck, while our DILs feel free to treat us however they want because they know we'll put up with alot just to maintain a relationship with DS.
I know you know we're not all nightmares, just as we know all DILs aren't nightmares - you've read the posts from good, caring, considerate MILs here who are careful about giving their DS & DIL the space they require, and yet they are still treated as monsters by some DILS. My DIL wants me to never have existed except to spawn DS; but I'm not ready to go away, sorry :(
Did the fathers of the dil's on this site buy gifts/cards and take care of social events for their side of the family? Our ds's most likely grew up watching their mom's take care of these things. I don't think they ever expected to do it and it is painful for them. My husband is TERRIBLE about shopping for gifts/cards or managing our social calendar, however, I truly have no problem taking care of these items b/c I'm HORRIBLE about repairs around the house, car maintenance, lawn care, etc. I actually have the better end of the deal doing light housekeeping, social events, and gift giving for both of us b/c he is so willing and so awesome at taking care of all the upkeep. I think it is important to regard others' feelings out of common courtesy. Yes, I understand that you can't force a close relationship with someone you really don't feel comfortable with. However, being kind and considerate isn't asking too much for the person who raised your dh, is it? And I really don't think most of the mil's on this site are complaining that their dil's aren't calling them to get together to shop or go to lunch. We are talking about dil's that refuse to squeeze us into a holiday - won't join in on any family activities - or answer an occassional phone call. We are family. When you married your dh, you became a member of his family. I am not asking for you to be abused - I am referring to in-laws who are trying to be kind to you. Jmho. Peace & love, Hope
I don't think women are only dropping the rope on social calendars and gift mailing, we're picking up the slack in other areas. I fix the cars, appliances, and mow the lawn. My husband calls a transmission a "gear shifter thingy". Needless to say, I do the oil, spark plugs, fluids, batteries, and headlights. Anything beyond that, I'll admit I take it in to the dealer. I do most of the household chores, mendind and tailoring, and errand running. My husband does do the ironing (he's WAY better at it), takes out the trash, and is responsible for putting his dirty clothes in the hamper and his dishes in the dishwasher. Because I have a great maternity policy at work, I handle child care. I also write any thank you notes that need to go out for gifts given to me or the baby. I schedule time to visit my family including researching ticket prices, planning meals and getting rooms ready if they're coming here, etc. I also buy gifts and send cards for my family.
What do I expect my DH to do.....I expect him to do what I do when I arrange a visit with my family...if he wants to see his mom and dad for the holidays, I expect him to call them and get some dates. Then I expect him to look at the master calendar in the kitchen and check the dates and elminate any that don't work. Then I expect him to ask me if there's anything happening on the dates they've selected that hasn't made it onto the master calendar, then once we agree on a date, I expect him to call them back, and find tickets, and confirm with them when we'll arrive, arrange a ride to and from their home, and determine what we need to pack (now many nice outfits v casual).
I expect him to pick out a card, sign it, address it, stamp it, and mail it for any event he thinks should be recognized with a card. The same goes for gifts.
I expect him to write a thank you note when he receives a gift.
I expect him to change the sheets, freshen up the guest room, straighten the house, and handle the shopping and preparing above and beyond the norm for when MIL and FIL come to our house. I expect him to entertain them and see to their needs.
I don't think those expectations are too much to ask for. Especially if his relationship with his parents is something so important to him. I'm not going to sit around and push him to do something he doesn't want to do. It's just more work for me. He did what he wanted, his parents complained about it, and my DH decided he just wasn't willing to do more. I don't really think that I should pick up the slack and do it to maintain a relationship that he didn't think was important enough in the first place.
Yes, I understand that this is his mom and dad, but I just don't wax poetic about family. Family members are humans, just like everyone else. I think this idea that you have to accept more bad treatment from family than you do from others is what keeps people in abusive or unfulfilling relationships. I am lucky that most of my family are people I'd want to be around. Some aren't, and we don't see them, but the majority are. And it's the same on DH's side. Most of his family is wonderful and we enjoy seeing them. It's just MIL and FIL who we're estranged from. At some point (when it's not 2 am and I'm greatly needing sleep), I'll post a "where we're at now" story about my ILs to get any advice you have on how our relationship could possibly work again. That's why I came here in the first place.
Dear Marriedchick:
Maybe I did not use the correct words and make myself clear. I am not the typical mil, believe me. I will try to explain myself. I had problems with dil (and I said it on my post) for 2 years. Things change for me dramatically (and husband) . She is now nice, open and finally understood that we were not the typical in-laws that would mingle with her life. She also realized that we were just there for them when they needed us. As I said, we never visited or called. We only wanted to be treated fairly and with dignity. I also wondered where was our fault. I just wanted to know. It wasnt that I thought we were not to blame. After things were ok we talked and she admitted that we didnt do anything wrong that she had been very tense thinking we would be on their backs all the time (because many people advised her to keep in-laws away).
Now, she calls all the time. We baby-sit a lot and likes to come to our house every weekend and have lunch with us.
What I do agree with you is that if you and your mil dont have chemistry. Or....if you just dont like her, nothing can be done and my heart is with her. I did walk on your mil's shoes and it breaks my heart that good mil's are having their heart broken. I do know there are horrible mothers-in-law and should keep them far away, but my opinion is that dil should give them at least an opportunity and not cut them off just because. I am not judging you. I dont think you are a bad person, I just think you are young and will probably think differently in the future. I am from the old school and I have savor all the benefits and happiness of having my in-laws near (when I was the dil). I do remind my husband about her mother's birthday, I buy the present (he gives me the money) and that makes him happy. I dont mind doing that. He does a lot things for me too. But again, I am from the old school.
My daughters are 23 and 27 and are not married yet. My son is the one married. They are very straight forward and tell me when they think I am doing something wrong. They never said I was a bad mil. In fact when they saw me hurting they would tell me that I would get to enjoy their children (once they have them).
I do wish you luck and hope you mil gets it.
Quote from: clover on May 04, 2010, 11:28:29 PM
I don't think women are only dropping the rope on social calendars and gift mailing, we're picking up the slack in other areas. I fix the cars, appliances, and mow the lawn. My husband calls a transmission a "gear shifter thingy". Needless to say, I do the oil, spark plugs, fluids, batteries, and headlights. Anything beyond that, I'll admit I take it in to the dealer. I do most of the household chores, mendind and tailoring, and errand running. My husband does do the ironing (he's WAY better at it), takes out the trash, and is responsible for putting his dirty clothes in the hamper and his dishes in the dishwasher. Because I have a great maternity policy at work, I handle child care. I also write any thank you notes that need to go out for gifts given to me or the baby. I schedule time to visit my family including researching ticket prices, planning meals and getting rooms ready if they're coming here, etc. I also buy gifts and send cards for my family.
What do I expect my DH to do.....I expect him to do what I do when I arrange a visit with my family...if he wants to see his mom and dad for the holidays, I expect him to call them and get some dates. Then I expect him to look at the master calendar in the kitchen and check the dates and eliminate any that don't work. Then I expect him to ask me if there's anything happening on the dates they've selected that hasn't made it onto the master calendar, then once we agree on a date, I expect him to call them back, and find tickets, and confirm with them when we'll arrive, arrange a ride to and from their home, and determine what we need to pack (now many nice outfits v casual).
I expect him to pick out a card, sign it, address it, stamp it, and mail it for any event he thinks should be recognized with a card. The same goes for gifts.
I expect him to write a thank you note when he receives a gift.
I expect him to change the sheets, freshen up the guest room, straighten the house, and handle the shopping and preparing above and beyond the norm for when MIL and FIL come to our house. I expect him to entertain them and see to their needs.
I don't think those expectations are too much to ask for. Especially if his relationship with his parents is something so important to him. I'm not going to sit around and push him to do something he doesn't want to do. It's just more work for me. He did what he wanted, his parents complained about it, and my DH decided he just wasn't willing to do more. I don't really think that I should pick up the slack and do it to maintain a relationship that he didn't think was important enough in the first place.
Yes, I understand that this is his mom and dad, but I just don't wax poetic about family. Family members are humans, just like everyone else. I think this idea that you have to accept more bad treatment from family than you do from others is what keeps people in abusive or unfulfilled relationships. I am lucky that most of my family are people I'd want to be around. Some aren't, and we don't see them, but the majority are. And it's the same on DH's side. Most of his family is wonderful and we enjoy seeing them. It's just MIL and FIL who we're estranged from. At some point (when it's not 2 am and I'm greatly needing sleep), I'll post a "where we're at now" story about my ILs to get any advice you have on how our relationship could possibly work again. That's why I came here in the first place.
Wow Clover, if your husband does all this stuff, on his own, then you've trained him well...where could I find a husband like that?
Seriously...I would hold tight to him....
I am 61 years old...so yes, I believe there is a generation gap, however, I worked full time and more, sometimes...when I was married, I did everything...yes, my now ex-husband married a mother, however, we won't get into that...(and by the way, before I forget, kudos on taking care of the cars the way you do!!!)
Anyway, getting back to the subject....I put all the birthdays and anniversary's on the master calender, including all inlaws...I would purchase all the cards and put them on the table at dinner, and my now ex-husband and I would sign them both...I would send out the thank you notes for all gifts, and make all the thank you phone calls. I didn't care for my MIL the way she interferred, however, I did not make any bones about it, and continued the open lines of communication, b/c I was raised to respect people and who they are...I realized, and I'm not trying to put you down or anyone else here, I'm simply explaining that my mother taught us to accept people for who they are...and trained us to know, that just because she raised us one way, didn't mean, that everyone else was going to think like us and do things like us....however, one thing she really did stamp into our brains was, you never ever forget to say thank you in the form of a phone call or thank you note, and you never forget to send a card for birthdays, just to say, hi, I'm thinking of you....I'm not saying your wrong...it's all in how you were raised to believe....but I do think, it wouldn't hurt and may help matters in some instances, if DIL's would drop the attitude a little, and do a little something special for MIL...just from you...to her...
I say this, b/c I watch all my other friend's DIL's and how kindly they treat them...however, they all do get along famously and love each other very much. My one friend, doesn't smother her DIL's in the least...she sits back and allows them to take lead...and one of them calls her almost everyday...and that one, is the one, who had words with my Friend a long time ago, and my friend told her in front of the entire family, cuz the DIL got carried away and snapped at my friend....she said..."You have just a little to much to say young lady!" and it caused a big what to do, however, it all worked out...and the DIL was able to admit she was wrong...and she was....but we all also realize, that her culture is very outspoken....so since then, they're relationship has been building and building...
I tell you true...I don't have one friend who doesn't get along with they're in laws...and was actually thinking about this on the way to work, and thinking about what I've observed and the reason's why they do...it's mutual respect, understanding and security...on one hand...we Mil's have to understand, that our son's are married, and there is a new lady of the house...we have to sit back and wait to be asked...and not be so darn aggressive and insistant to have our ways...when it comes to grand children, etc. It is maturity and understanding that no two people are going to think alike, and understand that we each own our very own personal culture and respect that.
God, when I look back now and I was also thinking about this, this morning on the way to work....when I look back and think of all the negative stuff I assumed about my DIL, I can't tell you how embarrassed I am for doing so, why my mind was running overtime, trying to make excuses why my DIL was treating me this way...and I'm certain she was thinking the same things about me....she thought I hated her, and I could cry while writing this....and God, I didn't hate her, I hated the feeling of rejection...it hurt awful...and she felt the very same way...
One little thing set things off...something I said, or did, which I was always used to doing and didn't see anything wrong in it....but she did, she was hurt and offended...and when she explained to me, what I did, again, I was so embarrassed....yanno what I did...the very first time I went to visit them in her home? She was making Thanksgving dinner, and I kept opening the oven checking the turkey, in HER KITCHEN, HER TURKEY, HER THANKSGIVING DINER????? If someone had done that to me, or if she had done that to me, I would have not only been fit to be tied, I would have voiced my opinion in a huff, big time....and yanno what...my DIL didn't say a word to me...she sucked that up?? That must have been awful for her...but she respected me and my son enough to not say a word...and since we've resolved our differences, I'm seeing so much good in her...we all have faults, and of course this generation isn't going to do things like we did...and some of us have had some really horrible childhoods, which adds to the insecurity and problems....if we allow it. So, there are all kinds of reasons for people doing things, saying things and acting out...people do not do things for one reason....
When someone at work acts kind of huffy to me...I first consider, that maybe, something is upsetting them... they have a personal problem at home that they're dealing with or just simply had a bad morning...if my DIL did something, OMG, she must have been acting like that just to hurt me? NO, she wasn't...it was the way she is....for instance, when she grabbed my son's arm and walked way ahead of me...not waiting for me...or chatting with me....it hurt awful, b/c I thought she was rejecting me, or trying to push me away....well she wasn't...and she said to me, she was sorry, that she needed to rethink some of these things and make some changes, b/c she was always like that and she didn't want to hurt anyone else's feelings. But boy, I tell you, I had this thing going on in my mind, that she was evil and she wanted me out of they're lives at all costs...and my heart was breaking in two...but so was hers. We both thought we hated each other...and why, b/c both of us were afraid to sit down and discuss it like two grown adults, meaning, really listening to each other and when she told me something that I did, which offended her, I didn't get all upset and angry, and defensive...I considered how it might have hurt her....but the difference is, we were both ready to do this, we both wanted this, and we both respected each others feelings, regardless.
If you have an argument with your hubby's...and it turns into a big fight, why? B/c when he tells you how he really feels, you (we) get upset, b/c instead of realizing that these are how he sees things, and he is not attacking us personally, he's just saying to us, when you do these things it hurts my feelings...or me, and all he's asking us to do, is try and not say or do the things he is asking us not to do...but we get all upset and huffy and defensive and take his constructive criticism as an attack against us...
and this is what happens with Mil's and DIL's. I commend you DIL's who have written things about they're MIL's being real difficult to get along with and understand, however, you do say, that's how she is, she isn't going to change, and at first it hurt you, but you realize, this is how the woman is...what your saying is, she is not attacking you personally, but this is who she is...well, I commend you ladies for understanding that...you are able to let it roll off and you realize...that is what I call awareness and good perception...kudos to you...
and that's how I believe more of us should be....and to those of you who take offense, that the DIL's mother gets the GC more then you and you want equal time...believe me, I know how you feel...I do...honest...my son's father married a really manipulative mean woman...and that, I do know is true...they get to see my GD much more then I do...so what am I going to do...get angry? Yes, my feelings are hurt, but the last thing I'm going to do is put demands on them, and say, I want equal time? Yanno what...that is going to definitely make them both become defensive. This doesn't stand in my case, but lets face it...as a woman, and once being a DIL...you know, you wanted your mother there...for those of you who had good relationships with your mothers....you know you wanted her to watch your kids...b/c you loved her and trusted her...I loved my MIL yes, she was a pain in the butt...however, she was a human being and used to doing things her way...and she taught me a lot...for some of you DIL's who are reading this and say, I don't do cards, my husband does...or I don't do calls, my husband does...and he should make the effort, this is HIS mother....well, there is your problem right there....
When you feel like that, you send of negative feelings...and if you want to get along with your DIL's or MIL's....negativity projects...people can pick up on it right away, no matter how hard you try not to let it show, if you feel that way, it's going to show...and the same for us MIL's. When you start to change your attitude, the negative feelings start to dissolve...and you start to project light, instead of dark....when your shopping, and if you make a mental note and pick up a card, and send it to your MIL, something special from you to her, without your husband's name, might be a very positive start...it's a really small thing...that we all could make something huge out of, if we wanted to....yes, some people are just not into sending cards....however, sending a special card speaks volumns, like, hey I was thinking of you...it's a start...yanno? And for the woman who wrote she wants equal time with her GC...you can absolutely tell, she is hurting big time...so why not cut your MIL's a break, if they are competent, and give those Grand kids to them a little more, stop being so stubborn...tey are the grandmother and they do have a right to see them...yes, you mothers set the boundaries, and yes, we mol's sometimes overstep those boundaries...but some of this stuff is small potatoes, compared to what could really be....I think this whole topic is a good topic...and the op is trying to make a point...can you except the truth of hear a different perspective?
If you find yourself being angered or upset by my post, then you cannot...and that is something your all going to have to work on in order to work things out with DIL or MIL....most of us, not all, need to take ownership in our problems with DIL's or MIL's and really decide what is big stuff and what is petty little nothings....
And so what, if those are your rules, and the MIL gave the kid candy? big deal....it's one day...or maybe the DIL said no to this time, but that doesn't mean she's trying to hurt you intentionally, tomorrow is another day....strt realizing, we want, what we want, when we want it, and we can't always have our way....lets compromise a little and try to understand the feelings of the other woman in your son's or husband's life.
I'm not saying this will work for everyone....there are some really nasty women out there....however, I know women pretty well...our feelings get hurt pretty quick...and when we're young we tend to take things as an attack against who we are and all we believe...not so, it's simply the woman doing something in a different way....and used to being a mother....
MIL's don't ever walk in your DIL's home and feel anything but a quest...yes, it's your son's home to, but there is a whole other person living there, and you need to remember that..doesn't give any mother the right to call at all hours of the day....show them some respect and don't call early Sat. or Sunday morning and once in a while, let them call you....stop smothering them...or expecting them to take you on vacation with them....yes, some families do that and it works out well...however, some do not...some want privacy to have quality time together, with they're kids...to enjoy whispering in each other's ear, or grabbing each other, without the worry of MIL being there and seeing...sheesh, try and understand, it's nothing personal, they just want to do this on they're own.
DIL's...if MIL comes over to much, tell her....in a nice way...set boundaries...let her know, it's nothing personal, that you'd say this to your own mom, or best friend....but set those boundaries....and MIL's you have to do the same, not in a huffy way, but in a respectful way, talk to DIL....ask her why, don't put son in the middle....and DIL's don't do the same...understand, when you are fighting with hubby about something MIL did, he's not in control...he loves you both, very much....and your putting him in the middle making him choose, oh, you may say your not, but you are....don't fright about it with him, talk to her....we're all grown adults here.
I hope I haven't offended anyone....I'm talking from my experiences....and from what I've learned...and again I say, if you've taken offense to my post, and get all upset and hurt, then you don't understand, and you are not ready to sit down and have a talk with MIL, DIL....the only way to work things out is to be able to listen to the others feelings, without taking offense. And really understand, that while you didn't mean to hurt that person, you did...you can't say, wull, I didn't do that or this....bottom line is, that person hurt b/c of something you did...maybe a very small thing, that someone else thinks it's a big thing...but someone is hurting, b/c of actions, inaction, or reactions in a negative way.
I'm sorry this is so long...and I hope, I really do, that some of you are able to understand my intentions...I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here....I'm trying to help Gosh, this all could be so easy if we all were not so darned subborn...and a lot of this stuff is small...when you consider, loosing a loved one who you will never see again, or never have that chance again to say, I love you...or to say, I'm sorry, I was wrong....I hurt you....when you face, loosing someone you love dearly, all this other stuff is nothing...believe me....nothing...and unimportant....compared to never being able to look in your son's face ever again and saying, I'm so proud of you, I love you, your wife is the greatest....and we may not always agree, but she was a great pic for you, and I love you both....and I'm so happy you have had the experience of love, of children...life....
I just got an invitation the other day, to a surprise birthday party for my friend, do you know who is organizing it? Her DIL's? Not her son's, but her DIL's? They not only make an effort, they love her and accept her for who she is, even her flaws...and we all possess flaws...MIL's, it wouldn't hurt, to do something special for DIL...like ask her to lunch or to have a surprise cake made for her on her birthday...just you and her....
I'm simply throwing some positive ideas out there...
and for any of you, yanno what, if someone takes the time to go out and pick out a special gift for you or your baby? What harm would it be, to call them and say, I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to buy that beautiful gift for baby...no matter how sucky YOU think the gift is....they took the time to buy it....they don't see fashion like you do, they don't know what's in or out...there is a 30 - 40 year difference, please consider that....
Hello ladies!
Hi Nana and Hope. You guys just made a great point for me, thanks. You two are from a different generation and did things differently. Well it's a new time and not all DILs want to, are willing or desire to do all the things you once did when you were young. Times have changed. Whether or not you can accept that is another thing. I'm kind of like Clover, I know about cars, gardening and lawn work and I'm pretty handy around the house. My husband on the other hand...not so much, lol. He's the "social butterfly". He wants to throw parties and entertain, he remembers birthdays and other dates, just not who I am. He wants to spend time with his family that's his thing and I don't interrupt.
I think some of the MILs here are looking for ways to get through to their DIL and make things easier for them and their sons. I think the focus should be on the sons. Can't change DIL or make her feel any other way unless she wants to. I think if your sons are allowing for the destruction of a good relationship then that is his problem. He needs to fix it and fix it his way. It's his responsibility to maintain a relationship with his family regardless of the situation. People keep close with family with even worse circumstances, so I don't personally think a "witchy wife" is a good enough excuse to let a relationship with parents fall a part. I think that's what Clover is trying to say...do I get it Clover?? It's his responsibility and he needs do what he can to make it right. If he can't and/or chooses not to fix it or use his wife as an excuse then there is something he didn't make clear in the beginning with his wife. He didn't stress how important it was to him to be with family. He didn't see it through. Now he's using his wife as an excuse (or valid reason depending on the situation) when he didn't set the table for what he wanted. Whatever you think you know about what he said to her or what you saw from her or how you may have talked to her about how important family is, he has to talk to her when it's just the two of them. It's the sons, not the DILs just because she's not the one you have the real bonded relationship with.
I'm not saying that some of these DILs don't have an agenda but who is allowing this agenda to be played out towards his family?? Who is really tolerating the madness?? The sons. They need much more blame, they are the real link between their FOO and their new family, not the DIL. I just hope some of you ladies can see that and let some of the hurt go, because it's not bothering the DIL. It's hurting you and I'm very sure it's a hurtful and painful thing. It might bother your sons, but apparently not enough to change the situation or demand that his wife is respectful to his parents.
And oh yea....GOOD MORNING!!!
Creme - I loved your post! You had a lot of good advice there, I think I'll have to read it a couple of times to take it all in.
MarriedChick - Don't you somewhat feel bad for modern men? They were raised with a father/role-model who did the Manly chores, and yet now, they're married to a Modern Woman, who can do the Manly Chores and now expects them to do some Womanly Chores. They have very little training for this and very little desire to do it. They just don't get any return on it, there's no 'excitement' for them to send a card, they aren't MORE happy when their house is clean.
I really feel that this generation of men is somewhat 'lost'. We've been married for 12 years and my DH still doesn't get that to help me out, he should just get another load of groceries, instead of trying to take the load out of my arms. I can do it. I want to do it.
On the other hand, he LOVES that he doesn't have to mow the lawn or shovel the snow. He feels that he's getting off the hook for those. But it doesn't make him want to take up any slack INSIDE the house.
I think this is one reason that DH and I will never get divorced, I've put too much effort in training him, just to have someone else reap the rewards.
QuoteMarriedChick09
Hello ladies!
Hi Nana and Hope. You guys just made a great point for me, thanks. You two are from a different generation and did things differently. Well it's a new time and not all DILs want to, are willing or desire to do all the things you once did when you were young.
Well, that's very true, however, lets pretend for a moment, this is not your mil, but someone your husband has introduced you to, that you have always WANTED to meet, and admire? Wouldn't you bend a little then or at least meet that person 1/2 way...or even 1/4 of the way...you may not be willing to do things the way they once did, however, drop the attitude and why not try? I'm not attacking you, I'm simply addressing your post, with my own feelings...you do come across as having an unbendable attitude, which will get you no where in the end...and I like you for your honesty...however, we all have to compromise just a little...
QuoteTimes have changed. Whether or not you can accept that is another thing. I'm kind of like Clover, I know about cars, gardening and lawn work and I'm pretty handy around the house. My husband on the other hand...not so much, lol. He's the "social butterfly". He wants to throw parties and entertain, he remembers birthdays and other dates, just not who I am. He wants to spend time with his family that's his thing and I don't interrupt.
Again, arent' you in this life together? I mean, do you sometimes do things with him that you don't like to do, realizing, that down the road, he's going to do something with you, that you won't like to do, but you tollerate it b/c you love him and visa versa....compromise?
QuoteI think some of the MILs here are looking for ways to get through to their DIL and make things easier for them and their sons. I think the focus should be on the sons. Can't change DIL or make her feel any other way unless she wants to. I think if your sons are allowing for the destruction of a good relationship then that is his problem. He needs to fix it and fix it his way. It's his responsibility to maintain a relationship with his family regardless of the situation. People keep close with family with even worse circumstances, so I don't personally think a "witchy wife" is a good enough excuse to let a relationship with parents fall a part. I think that's what Clover is trying to say...do I get it Clover?? It's his responsibility and he needs do what he can to make it right. If he can't and/or chooses not to fix it or use his wife as an excuse then there is something he didn't make clear in the beginning with his wife. He didn't stress how important it was to him to be with family. He didn't see it through. Now he's using his wife as an excuse (or valid reason depending on the situation) when he didn't set the table for what he wanted. Whatever you think you know about what he said to her or what you saw from her or how you may have talked to her about how important family is, he has to talk to her when it's just the two of them. It's the sons, not the DILs just because she's not the one you have the real bonded relationship with.
I disagree, what your stating may work in some instances, but take my son for instance...he was dealing with two very strong willed women, and he was right in the middle...if he tried to tell me his wife's side of the story, I'd take it as if he were saying I was lying...and I was making this up...and if he'd try and talk to his wife about it, she'd take it as if her were not being loyal to her...each of us was demanding his loyalty...
You try and talk to your father about your mother....or visa versa when they were fighting, especailly if they are seperated, your going to get nowhere....
Yes, it would be nice if son would be able to take charge, sit you both down in front of one another and say, ENOUGH OF THIS...you two are driving me nuts....I love you both but this will stop!!!!! How many men do you know will do that? And how many men's wives do manipulate them into doing they're bidding? How many mothers are able to do that? It's a no win situation here, until the two involved resolve they're differences....there was nothing my son could do, and man oh man, was he hurting, do you realize, how much stress it put on him....any child wants they're parents approval....and when a mil talks to her son about what her DIL did to hurt her, how do you think he feels? He's thinks your telling him, she is no good...and his choice wasn't the wisest....and you DIL's, do you have any idea how much he is hurting? He is definately going to agree with you , that his mother is a pain in the butt, b/c if he said otherwise, he has learned that in SOME CASES, there will be all hell to pay....all men are like that, believe me, it's yes, dear, no dear, your right dear....because they will do anything to keep peace. Men cannot deal with stress or confrontations...
QuoteScoop
I really feel that this generation of men is somewhat 'lost'. We've been married for 12 years and my DH still doesn't get that to help me out, he should just get another load of groceries, instead of trying to take the load out of my arms. I can do it. I want to do it.
Oh boy, I totally agree Scoop, I work with some of the nicest single young men, I mean, they've got it all, however, they won't compromise they're personal instutions just to be married, and they all tell me the exact same thing...women today, are demanding and they're expectations are far above and beyond what they want...the one has two brothers who had failed marriages, and he loves and adores being an uncle and takes initiative to be not only like an uncle but a big brother to these kids...I mean it...he is very caring and babysits....however, as much as he wants his own child, he tells me along with so many other young people, that they won't compromise just to be married...that they're family is very important to them and they won't allow a women to come inbetween....the one, who is my favorite told me, he has not yet, met a woman and taken her home to meet his mom and dad, that wasn't intimidated by them....he said, afterwards I get all the questions...and you can tell the girl would not be a good fit, and she'd try to come between them....
I'm not saying that every woman is like this...however, there are some men out there who are very perceptive and know what they are looking for....and tell me they have not yet met anyone they feel comfortable with...and they could, believe me, they are attractive, active, very intelligent and make big bucks....are forth right and loyal...very mature....
Creme and MarriedChick09, it was very interesting to see how different yet valid both of your perspectives are. On the one hand Creme is advocating for the DIL to take that one step towards MIL, and on the other hand, Married Chick09 is saying that it is son's responsibility.
Can you imagine a DIL who has one of the above perspectives while her MIL has the opposing perspective? Even with the best intentioned people, there will be issues to work out. I imagine there will be a power struggle just to get along because they will each have their own way of having a good relationship.
If there are two people who genuinely want the same thing (ie, a good relationship), there will still have to be that negotiation of the rules even for a good relationship because the definition of what a good relationship is and the expectations of MIL and DIL interactions are different. And again, that is if the two people want the same thing.
I think that is why sons are so key to help solve these issues because the son knows how the mom thinks (well, sometimes) and the son knows how the wife thinks, and I think that if there are uncertainties or different expectations on either side he should be the one to help smooth that over.
I know every case is different, but in my case, I have made multiple attempts to reach out to MIL, and while I do think she is appreciative of most of what I do to reach out to her, she has never seemed to really connect with me, even though I tried to connect with her as a person. So this can go both ways with DIL and MIL, which is why I again reiterate the importance of son helping smooth stuff over or just deciding to have a relationship with his mom on his own without his wife if it just does not work. Granted, there are DILs out there who try to interfered and cut off the bond between husband and his mother, but I don't think most cases are like that.
Carmex - I was thinking about this too.
There's no 'reward' for me in making a step forward towards MIL. I'm thinking about Mother's Day cards and if I had picked one out for MIL and had DH sign it and DD make a picture. My DH wouldn't say more than "thanks" and that only after I had prompted him. MIL would thank DH profusely. But he wouldn't even pass that message on to me. As far as I'm concerned that's way too much effort on my part for no reward.
Think about it. If the relationship doesn't work when the MIL and DIL are at cross-purposes, it's certainly DOOMED if the DS and M aren't BOTH working towards the same goal.
Creme, that's very interesting about the men who are looking for a woman who will accept his FOO and who is less demanding. My DS thought he'd found one; she sure talked the talk before they married...as soon as the ink dried her true agenda reared its head. Now we're stuck, as MC put it earlier.
QuoteScoop
There's no 'reward' for me in making a step forward towards MIL. I'm thinking about Mother's Day cards and if I had picked one out for MIL and had DH sign it and DD make a picture. My DH wouldn't say more than "thanks" and that only after I had prompted him. MIL would thank DH profusely. But he wouldn't even pass that message on to me. As far as I'm concerned that's way too much effort on my part for no reward.
so in other words, you have to have a reward to do something nice, or to make a lot of effort?
There are things I've done for my neighbors, that they don't even know I've done...for instance...when my son was growing up, his best friends single mother was lazy, she didn't work, and lived on welfare, they couldn't afford heat. I called my heating company and had them deliver oil to them on a regular basis so they wouldn't be in the cold...and demanded that they never be told who was doing it. I remember him saying that his mom didn't know who was delivering oil to they're house....
My one neighbor is using a walker...she has dimentia....one evening while walking my dog, I saw her outfront, trying to hand weed her little tiny garden out front...so, when it was dark, I snuck over and quickly pulled all the weeds out...and never told her....so biggy....
my point is....it makes me feel good to be able to do something nice for someone....and I don't care about a reward...what I care about is, that I made it a little easier on my son's friend...and my neighbor....and I would do the same for my MIL, even if I didn't like her...I would make certain, I went out and got a card and sent it to her once in a while, which said, "Just thinking of you"....and you don't have to sign it love...
but you would be surprised, how kind jestures are returned...Scoop, I've always admired you...and your posts....however, it's just nice to be kind to people no matter what. I think we live in a fastpaced world today and we've all become individualists....and way to busy to care about others, however, I see those who do....and have been so blessed in those people...people who were not looking for a reward for doing something nice.
I was so sick a few weeks ago, I honestly could not walk my do...my neighbor took my dog into her home and watched after him, fed him, walked him and cleaned up his poo....no one else offered, what in God's name would I have done without her....?????? And I'm not one who asks for anything?
Here's another example....some of my son's friends who used to come to the house when he was a kid, still come to visit me. I can't climb ladders anymore...last season, our trees shed tons of acorns...I guess cuz of all the rain we had last year, but I've never seen so many acorns. Well, they all dropped, and were a pain to clean up....however, a whole lot of them have gotten stuck in my gutters and my son's friend stood there and laughed, instead of saying, "I'm coming over one night after work and get them out of there for you"...that really hurt...and I can't do it and I won't ask....but I know those little suckers are growing roots in the gutter gards and it bugs me b/c I can't get at them to clean them up....
It doesn't hurt anyone one iota to take the time, and help others or do something nice for others without any other thought then to help them out...if I help someone I don't expect that they owe me anything...and for all you mothers out there who give they're kids money and then expect them to be nice to you, I gotta say, your wrong for doing so, b/c when you give someone that much money, you DO expect things back...I have never, ever taken money from anyone that I can't pay back...and I never will, I would live in a card board box first.
It's wrong to give our children that much money, instead of allowing them to work for what they want...you are enabling them to be the way they are, and then they expect that you will always be there to help them out....that is not being repsonsible...taking money from others...what ever happened to the concept that material things DO NOT bring happiness...what is it with this world today, needing the best of everything? If you can afford it fine, but if you can't you do without, period.
Our mother always taught us, when you give money, don't ever expect it back...and I don't...and never have...and I learned from a girlfriend of mine who is always down on her luck...we've been friends since 7th grade and I've bailed her out a couple of times....however, she has never ever given back....everything is for her, even when you talk to her on the phone, it's always, well, yeah, I have that, or that happened to me....it's always about her and she is draining, however, I would never end our friendship...she's to old to change...and she has a lot of other good points.
So, there you have it, my feelings on the subject...I betcha you would shock the heck out of MIL if you took the extra time and sent her a card...it's mother's day for goodness sakes...and how much effort does it really take to buy a card, address it and mail it? How nice that would be....even if she doesn't appreciate it, like I think she should...you've done a nice thing...and let me tell you...karma means a lot....the more good karma you spread around, the more will be returned to you....not to mention...your children will learn to be kind to others from you....kindness is not rewarded usually...and in this tough world a little kindness goes a very long way....this world has changed drastically and I really do dread what you girls will have to see when you get to be my age...I really do...people are changing...
I remember the day when someone in our neighborhood was down on they're luck and all the neighbors came to they're rescue, today, we don't even know who our neighbors are?
Communities no longer get together like they used to when I was a kid...gosh, I tell you true, we had a great childhood...we were outside playing when we were five years old and all the neighbors looked out of all the kids...if we did something wrong, the neighbors would yell at us and our parents would back them up...as it should be....no more...kids are allowed to go anywhere....
Yanno, when I go out on my break at work and I have to sit there, listening to someone on the phone during my break, it really pisses me off...why doesn't that person get up and walk away...I don't want to listen to they're personal conversation? What is wrong with people today and respecting the personal space of others????? No one seems to even take that into consideration.....I'm just using this as a example...someone said, it's a different generation, get used to it....well, I can't...something are just down right rude and unthinking. I really care about your girls, but someone's gotta tell you...and I'm glad your here...and I hope you take my input as well as we MIL's here take yours...we're only trying to help each other...however, attitude gets no where and I'm sorry, but sometimes in your posts you do project one huge attitude...not y ou personally Scoop but DIL's and MIL's a like...we have to remember, we're family here...me included, so I really hope I didn't offend anyone.
You're right Creme, unbendable about certain things and his mother is one. I'm unbendable about how I want to be treated. If that gets me no where then I'll see some of you guys there. Creme you seem unbendable about the fact that you think DILs should try to work on something with their MIL even if it's useless to them. I'm sure you're unbendable about how people should treat you unless you really let your DIL treat you like crap, then that's your fault. So, whats that supposed to mean?
Anywho, Once my foot is down it's not moving and I won't compromise. I've been like that since I was 5 or 6. My mother always said I have an old soul because I'm so set in my ways. I will not tolerate his mother, she gets no free pass from me. Simple as that. She has done absolutely nothing to deserve a free pass from me. She didn't raise me, love me, care about me, she wasn't there when times were there hardest, she didn't help me when I was down, she hasn't been a good friend. So should she get a free pass by default because she had my husband...not even. I don't have an attitude, I want to be treated a certain way and if she won't, she can kick rocks. She annoys the skin off of my teeth. His mother is the ONLY thing I won't spend my time on just for him. I have limits and she pushes them and I won't sacrifice my sanity for time spent with her. She has done and said too much and she's NOT one of those people in my life that has chance after chance, it's just the truth. I don't like going out with his friends and their wives or girlsfriends but I do. I'm totally different than some people. If my husband doesn't want to do something I do...don't. Please don't, I would prefer him stay home if he doesn't want to go some where. But that's just me. I don't need that from him. But like I said that's just me.
We have a different type of compromise apparently. If he doesn't want to do something, I encourage him to do what he wants. If I don't want to do something he wants then I do my own thing. Maybe not the thing for you to do, but it works for us. We spent too many years arguing about me going to his mothers house. He couldn't see how rude she was to me and so demanded I go...bad idea. He got over that and realized he wanted a happy wife and let it go.
Creme you just proved that we are from different generations and we do things differently. My life might not work for others but it works for me.
As far as the men standing up not working...that's a weak man, period. Or maybe one of those "strong-willed" women will sit down and be quiet and realize what a problem they are creating. You're right how can you talk to someone who always has their own opinion and too stubborn to listen?? One of those women need to be quiet then. If men cannot deal with the stress, how about the elder of the two women, the one who is supposed to be more mature and have so much more life experience lay off?
Oh yea and if women are very demanding today, that's because men are losing their ground and not standing up like men of the past did. Women do everything a man does and more, sometimes alone. So yes, women want more than a man with a job. Not enough anymore. My grandfather worked up until he passed away and my grandmother was able to do the 'homely' things. Men took charge, they defended their wives and children to their parents and everyone else. I know my dad did. He didn't let anyone disrespect my mother, not even his own no matter what. My dad didn't cower in a corner and "I can't hurt my mommy's feelings even if she was wrong." No he would just respectfully tell her what needed to be said and leave it at that. If his mother decided she didn't like it, it was her problem.
LOL, I know I'm different. I'm not necessarily into family (certain family members suck!!! others I couldn't imagine life without), but I love my husband and he loves me too. I wouldn't ask him to suck it up for someone who has disrespected him time and time again just so I can have this dream family. I would never do that. But like I said I'm different. I don't try to make nice with people, I don't force myself on people nor do I figure someone has to like me by association.
So when are we gonna get to some healing around here?? LOL. I'm kind of tired of rehashing, MIL/DIL bashing, the who is more wrong, the why is she like that. We have all read different perceptions and have heard different truths, whether or not it has opened anyones eyes, or confirmed what they thought is up to that person. I hope some one came back with something positive besides DILs are young and will mature and blah, blah, blah. I wonder how some of you would feel if one of us DILs said "Well (insert name) you're old, so you wouldn't know about how this works now." Would they go over well?? Just a silly question I've ALWAYS wanted to ask.
Thanks again ladies!!!
There's no 'reward' for me in making a step forward towards MIL. I'm thinking about Mother's Day cards and if I had picked one out for MIL and had DH sign it and DD make a picture. My DH wouldn't say more than "thanks" and that only after I had prompted him. MIL would thank DH profusely. But he wouldn't even pass that message on to me. As far as I'm concerned that's way too much effort on my part for no reward.
Scoop,the reward is............the good feelings you get for bringing pleasure to some one else.Can you give from a place of love,love for your husband.This would make him feel love from you.
Quote from: MarriedChick09 on May 05, 2010, 08:13:58 AM
You're right Creme, unbendable about certain things and his mother is one. I'm unbendable about how I want to be treated. If that gets me no where then I'll see some of you guys there. Creme you seem unbendable about the fact that you think DILs should try to work on something with their MIL even if it's useless to them. I'm sure you're unbendable about how people should treat you unless you really let your DIL treat you like crap, then that's your fault. So, whats that supposed to mean?
Anywho, Once my foot is down it's not moving and I won't compromise. I've been like that since I was 5 or 6. My mother always said I have an old soul because I'm so set in my ways. I will not tolerate his mother, she gets no free pass from me. Simple as that. She has done absolutely nothing to deserve a free pass from me. She didn't raise me, love me, care about me, she wasn't there when times were there hardest, she didn't help me when I was down, she hasn't been a good friend. So should she get a free pass by default because she had my husband...not even. I don't have an attitude, I want to be treated a certain way and if she won't, she can kick rocks. She annoys the skin off of my teeth. His mother is the ONLY thing I won't spend my time on just for him. I have limits and she pushes them and I won't sacrifice my sanity for time spent with her. She has done and said too much and she's NOT one of those people in my life that has chance after chance, it's just the truth. I don't like going out with his friends and their wives or girlsfriends but I do. I'm totally different than some people. If my husband doesn't want to do something I do...don't. Please don't, I would prefer him stay home if he doesn't want to go some where. But that's just me. I don't need that from him. But like I said that's just me.
We have a different type of compromise apparently. If he doesn't want to do something, I encourage him to do what he wants. If I don't want to do something he wants then I do my own thing. Maybe not the thing for you to do, but it works for us. We spent too many years arguing about me going to his mothers house. He couldn't see how rude she was to me and so demanded I go...bad idea. He got over that and realized he wanted a happy wife and let it go.
Creme you just proved that we are from different generations and we do things differently. My life might not work for others but it works for me.
As far as the men standing up not working...that's a weak man, period. Or maybe one of those "strong-willed" women will sit down and be quiet and realize what a problem they are creating. You're right how can you talk to someone who always has their own opinion and too stubborn to listen?? One of those women need to be quiet then. If men cannot deal with the stress, how about the elder of the two women, the one who is supposed to be more mature and have so much more life experience lay off?
Oh yea and if women are very demanding today, that's because men are losing their ground and not standing up like men of the past did. Women do everything a man does and more, sometimes alone. So yes, women want more than a man with a job. Not enough anymore. My grandfather worked up until he passed away and my grandmother was able to do the 'homely' things. Men took charge, they defended their wives and children to their parents and everyone else. I know my dad did. He didn't let anyone disrespect my mother, not even his own no matter what. My dad didn't cower in a corner and "I can't hurt my mommy's feelings even if she was wrong." No he would just respectfully tell her what needed to be said and leave it at that. If his mother decided she didn't like it, it was her problem.
LOL, I know I'm different. I'm not necessarily into family (certain family members suck!!! others I couldn't imagine life without), but I love my husband and he loves me too. I wouldn't ask him to suck it up for someone who has disrespected him time and time again just so I can have this dream family. I would never do that. But like I said I'm different. I don't try to make nice with people, I don't force myself on people nor do I figure someone has to like me by association.
So when are we gonna get to some healing around here?? LOL. I'm kind of tired of rehashing, MIL/DIL bashing, the who is more wrong, the why is she like that. We have all read different perceptions and have heard different truths, whether or not it has opened anyones eyes, or confirmed what they thought is up to that person. I hope some one came back with something positive besides DILs are young and will mature and blah, blah, blah. I wonder how some of you would feel if one of us DILs said "Well (insert name) you're old, so you wouldn't know about how this works now." Would they go over well?? Just a silly question I've ALWAYS wanted to ask.
Thanks again ladies!!!
I am sincerely, very, very sorry you feel this way, I really am....
also, I'm not one sided on the fact that DIL's should work on making nice with MIL's....it can't and never will be one sided, and I'm sorry I gave you that illusion....it has to be mutual...however, doing something nice for each other, would be a step in the right direction, one tiny little jesture may move mountains...
Creme,you have really touch my heart!
You have a very big heart!Theres not a selfish bone in your body.
The good deeds you do for others,will come back to you ten fold.
Sending you one big hug! :)
Quote from: penstamen on May 05, 2010, 07:39:55 AM
Creme, that's very interesting about the men who are looking for a woman who will accept his FOO and who is less demanding. My DS thought he'd found one; she sure talked the talk before they married...as soon as the ink dried her true agenda reared its head. Now we're stuck, as MC put it earlier.
my own husband was like that....so I know it's true....people walk the walk until they are married, and then boom, once they're married, they really change big time...I remember even telling my now ex that....he sure fooled me....so I feel badly for you and your son...this does happen....
Creme, how insulting. I'm sorry that your DIL has had to deal with you.
QuoteMominwaiting
Creme,you have really touch my heart!
You have a very big heart!Theres not a selfish bone in your body.
The good deeds you do for others,will come back to you ten fold.
Sending you one big hug! :)
wull thank you so much, however, there are a lot of people out there who feel like I do...and they're are a lot of women in here like that, including you....so, lets all hug and be thankful for what we have...I'm so thankful for your guys...for your patience, understanding, and tollerating me...cuz I can be a real handful....
thanks so much...and sending a hug right back atcha
Scoop - As far as I'm concerned that's way too much effort on my part for no reward.
I would just ask, why would you have to be rewarded for doing something nice for someone? To me it seems like a pretty simple thing to pick up an extra card actually. So I wonder if it's the effort involved or the principal? I know we all like to be appreciated and recognized for all the things we do, especially when it's not really our responsibility. A sincere "thank you" always makes us feel good. However there can be a reward in knowing a small effort or gesture on your part (even if the recipient never knows it was you) has put a smile on someone's face. I wonder why sometimes it is easier for us to do something nice for total strangers than it is to do something for people we know? It sure is a crazy world sometimes, LOL!
Quote from: Carmexx on May 05, 2010, 06:16:58 AM
Creme and MarriedChick09, it was very interesting to see how different yet valid both of your perspectives are. On the one hand Creme is advocating for the DIL to take that one step towards MIL, and on the other hand, Married Chick09 is saying that it is son's responsibility.
Can you imagine a DIL who has one of the above perspectives while her MIL has the opposing perspective? Even with the best intentioned people, there will be issues to work out. I imagine there will be a power struggle just to get along because they will each have their own way of having a good relationship.
If there are two people who genuinely want the same thing (ie, a good relationship), there will still have to be that negotiation of the rules even for a good relationship because the definition of what a good relationship is and the expectations of MIL and DIL interactions are different. And again, that is if the two people want the same thing.
I think that is why sons are so key to help solve these issues because the son knows how the mom thinks (well, sometimes) and the son knows how the wife thinks, and I think that if there are uncertainties or different expectations on either side he should be the one to help smooth that over.
I know every case is different, but in my case, I have made multiple attempts to reach out to MIL, and while I do think she is appreciative of most of what I do to reach out to her, she has never seemed to really connect with me, even though I tried to connect with her as a person. So this can go both ways with DIL and MIL, which is why I again reiterate the importance of son helping smooth stuff over or just deciding to have a relationship with his mom on his own without his wife if it just does not work. Granted, there are DILs out there who try to interfered and cut off the bond between husband and his mother, but I don't think most cases are like that.
I was talking to Married chick and not necessarily advocating that DIL should take the first step...if she doesn't want to fine...the MIL involved also has to make attempts....it takes two mutually agreeable people to mend ways...so please understand, I didn't mean, that it always has to be the DIL to make the first step...I was in fact, referring specifically to making an effort to get a card, address it and send it for mother's day....that doesn't mean, that a DIL has to always make attempts....if the MIL isn't going to respond in a postive way, it is useless, unless you do so, without expectations...and just keep sending her cards b/c you want to...not b/c you expect anything from it or any positive respond...
There is also the time factor, time heals all wounds....and time also matures people I hope...so that is a very positive factor in all of this...but it takes two willing people...however, someone has to make the first step...don't they? Why not do it, no matter if your a MIL or DIL...do it without any expectations...just do it ....and keep on doing it, and you'll be surprised at how good you'll feel.
and this is the perfect example of how we all see things, and interrupt things differently...the same way words and actions can be missinterrupted....isn't it absolutely amazing how we all interrupt words written? I mean think about it...seriously, I'm not trying to be sarcastic....but look at how you thought I was trying to say, it's your job to make amends with your MIL? I believe those in here who know me well, now, I am neutral and will always remain that way...but I can be...b/c I'm no longer hurt by my DIL, and I shouldn't have been to begin with...I was utterly silly and the things I was so stubborn about were absolutely small things that could have been fixed, if we both knew what we both know now....
it isn't about whose right and whose wrong...cuz most of the time, it's perspectives and the way we were raised to believe...what it's about is being kind, and letting go of blame, anger, hurt and hate.
I agree DDM,
I have had to deal with a lot of hurt,from DIL
But still,after third GC was born.........i sent her a dozen pink roses...it was a girl.
I really dont know if she appreciated it,i hope so.............but it made me feel good inside.
Oooh! ::Pout::
Okay, I give up. You guys are right.
I wrote out two whole posts about why I should not have to do anything for MIL for Mother's Day - such bitterness! I was not stamping my feet and that was IT.
But then I remembered that THIS is exactly why I come here. To hear the other side and to learn. And I'm supposed to be working on my relationship with MIL.
So I'm going to talk to DH and see if he wants to send her flowers (it's probably too late to send a card at this point).
Thanks guys - I love this place.
Quote from: Mominwaiting on May 05, 2010, 08:46:38 AM
I agree DDM,
I have had to deal with a lot of hurt,from DIL
But still,after third GC was born.........i sent her a dozen pink roses...it was a girl.
I really dont know if she appreciated it,i hope so.............but it made me feel good inside.
You get thumbs up for that one...that was a really really nice thing to do!!!!!
Quote from: Scoop on May 05, 2010, 08:47:56 AM
Oooh! ::Pout::
Okay, I give up. You guys are right.
I wrote out two whole posts about why I should not have to do anything for MIL for Mother's Day - such bitterness! I was not stamping my feet and that was IT.
But then I remembered that THIS is exactly why I come here. To hear the other side and to learn. And I'm supposed to be working on my relationship with MIL.
So I'm going to talk to DH and see if he wants to send her flowers (it's probably too late to send a card at this point).
Thanks guys - I love this place.
Scoop, don't talk to husband, be your own person, your own individual...I mean, ok, talk to him and ask him if he wants to send flowers, and it doesn't have to be a mother's day card, but tomorrow, just send her a card from you...not hubby, but from you which says, I hope you have a nice day, and week ahead...just thinking of you...or give her a call on the phone? Make it short and sweet, and end it by saying, well, I gotta go, but I wanted you to know I was just thinking of you...doesn't matter if she rejects you or not, you've got nothing to loose....nothing to gain but some good ol fashioned self respect...however, keep hubby out of this...do this for you and MIL...only....
My son told me, he hated being in the middle and when we would both ask him a question, he feared giving us answers for fear it might be the wrong one.
Why don't you send her flowers on your own...without asking him?
Are you getting my point? This is now between you and she....take one step forward, sit back and see what happens, maybe in a year she'll respond, maybe she won't....? Then do it again...
I made up my mind, when I sent my DIL that letter, I would send her a birthday card every single year, even if she sent it back...didn't matter, I had nothing to loose, and what I had to gain was that I was trying and it made me feel good about myself to drop all the hate, anger, fear and try....without any expectation...so you can imagine how shocked I was when she called, and from now on, I refuse to have any expectations....or push her...it's her call....it has to be....and now, I love her, acutally always have, I was just so darned hurt from the rejection...which she wasn't really doing...she was hurt and angry to.
Scoop:
But then I remembered that THIS is exactly why I come here. To hear the other side and to learn. And I'm supposed to be working on my relationship with MIL.
Thanks for reminding us that we are all here because we want things to be better, not because we want to be right. ((((HUGS))))
Married summed up what I was saying pretty well. Basically it's this. No matter how much you love someone, there is work involved in hosting them, planning to visit, sending a card, mailing a gift, etc. In the past, that work has fallen to the DIL. In the previous generation, women did the "womanly chores" including social calendar keeping,etc, while the men did the "manly chores" including the lawncare, car repair, etc. Now chores are being split more evenly, with both the man and the woman taking some "daily chores" (taking out the trash, cooking, dishes, etc) and some "periodic chores" (mowing, oil change, etc). We expect our husbands to handle the "work" that comes with maintaining a relationship with his family of origin. We will do the same for our family of origin. I know it's been asked how much work is it? Well let's think about it. For a card. First you have to get it. Let's assume i take the easy way out and just grab one at the supermarket. That's an extra 5-10 minutes to read through 2-3 to find the right one and then find the envelope that goes with it. Add in calming the baby while I sit there to look at the 2-3 and that's an extra 10 minutes. Then I get home and go to my stationery center. Grab the pen and just sign my name. Ok that took about 2 minutes. And MIl will complain because it wasn't personal enough or a note. So I take the time to actually write out a note....now we're getting to 10-15 minute minimum because I can't say the wrong thing or she'll cry. And heaven forbid you have to mark something out because that's just poor taste to send a card to someone with a scratch out where you wrote "womderful" instead of "wonderful" because you got carried away with the humps on your n (my MIL, again). Then, I need to get a stamp. Right now I'm using my old 39 cent stamps with extra stamps beside it, but that's "trashy" according to MIL. So I have to go to the post office to mail it. And wait in line because our post office doesn't have a machine (not MIl's fault, but it factors into the time). Ok, so the note is mailed. Don't even get me started on the time it takes to get ready for a visit.
And I know that the comments will be "your MIL is over the top, she should be grateful for the card", but it's not that she's said these things to me in response to the cards, she's just said them. She talked about how she hates extra stamps and thinks it's trashy when she got a Christmas card while we were at her home. She made the comment about never sending a card with a scratch out as she was tearing up a note and preparing to write a new one because she'd made a mistake. But those comments are judgemental and stick out, and if you know the person has standards you can't meet or won't be happy with the effort, why try. I think that's the difference between you weeding your neighbor's garden versus me sending the card. Your neighbor was grateful. If my MIL would be, then I'd send the card.
To address your question, my husband doesn't do the things I expect him to do in regards to his family. He rarely arranges visits, he never writes thank you notes, and he's terrible about sending cards and gifts. But with the things that I am doing, I don't have time to pick up his slack nor do I have any motivation. He doesn't care if they get them or not, so really why should I? I spent the first two years of my married life reminding him to call his family, trying to get him to invite his family out, finally inviting them out myself, getting the house ready for the visit, planning activities and buying passes to museums and attractions in our area for them only to have any praise they had for it go to DH and all the complaints (and there were a ton) to be blamed on me (including the fact that an event they wanted to go to was cancelled. How that was my fault I'll never know). And interstingly enough, his parents never send thank you notes.
So I stopped. If it wasn't important to DH and it wasn't making them happy enough to say thank you, then I wasn't going to kill myself to do it. And DH didn't care to pick up where I'd left off, and the ILs yelled at us about it, and he got angry, and we haven't seen them since they yelled at DH for abandoning them and not caring (which, actually, is true from what I've seen, but it wasn't because of me).
It's been asked "Why not do it because it will make your DH happy" or because it will make your MIL happy. It wasn't. It wasn't making MIL happy. It wasn't making DH happy. DH was just relieved his parents wouldn't be calling to complain about how hurt and left out they were and MIL just used it as an invitation to demand more time/attention/visits/etc, which in turn frustrated DH because we were both superbusy and finding time to sleep and eat was complicated enough.
Conversely, with my parents or with his extended family, when we send a card, they say thank you and that it made them happy. And when we visit, they say how much they enjoyed it. And if they want a visit, they call and ask and accept if we say yes or no without a passive aggressive "on you never say yes, I don't know why I bother to ask" or "you're saying yes, wow, you never do that".
I read a post on here where the person talked about negotiation, that without both parties being motivated, a compromise will never be reached. The MIL wants to see her son and grandchild (and maybe even the DIL, stranger things have happened :) ). What does the DIL want? Why is she coming to the table, sending the card, etc? I often feel that some moms are cast aside because at this juncture in their child's life, they aren't "needed" in the mothering sense and to have the son and DIL put the effort into the relationship with them, they have to be wanted. If the mom doesn't transition out of the parental role and into the adult friend/someone they want to be around role, then there's nothing on her side of the table to bargin with. A MIL who isn't wanted can say "I'll stay away" and the new couple will say "great". How a MIL can make herself wanted is the real mystery though. You'll get 100 different answers from 90 different people (yes the numbers are intentional :) ).
Sorry for the rambling. Just thinking as I type, so I hope this makes sense. And now 11 new replies have been posted, so I'm just posting this and hoping it's still on topic.
Quote from: MarriedChick09 on May 05, 2010, 08:30:56 AM
Creme, how insulting. I'm sorry that your DIL has had to deal with you.
what? what did I say that was insulting...I am seriously very very sorry you feel the way you do...sorry for you, sorry for MIL...?
I mean, what in the world did I say that was so insulting?
I forget, but didn't you start this thread, and ask, if you are able to accept what others think and feel?
as I said in my one post...marriedchick, if you take insult, then your certainly not ready to heal....we're being open and honest here...did I get hurt or insulted b/c of things you said, and you were very open and honest....? Lets get together here and continue this discussion without getting upset....give it a chance, I'm not saying your right or wrong, I'm simply sharing my perspectives with you, doesn't say I'm right or wrong...however, I said nothing to insult you, now please tell me, why does it insult you?
lol - you know what my husband said to me yesterday? We were driving home from work and he was musing about what to get his mother for mothers day. He has always sent her cards/gifts - buys his side gifts at christmas, never even imagined he'd think I'd do it. Meanwhile, I was mussing about some of these ideas. I talked to him about how much a woman's role has evolved in the last hundred years - my grandmother couldn't even vote and now look where we are. DH also does all the grocery shopping and about hmm, 75% of the cooking? I cook for big events or guests, and he does the day to day stuff. I also pay all the bills and organized the purchase of our house/car, our wedding, etc. I asked him what he was making for dinner and he smiled and said 'I'm sorry, I'm going to be busy evolving tonight, I have a lot of catching up to do'
Its still making me laugh XD
QuoteScoop
Oooh! ::Pout::
But then I remembered that THIS is exactly why I come here. To hear the other side and to learn. And I'm supposed to be working on my relationship with MIL.
This post was priceless and made my day
thank you Scoop!!!
Quote from: alohomora on May 05, 2010, 09:05:38 AM
lol - you know what my husband said to me yesterday? We were driving home from work and he was musing about what to get his mother for mothers day. He has always sent her cards/gifts - buys his side gifts at christmas, never even imagined he'd think I'd do it. Meanwhile, I was mussing about some of these ideas. I talked to him about how much a woman's role has evolved in the last hundred years - my grandmother couldn't even vote and now look where we are. DH also does all the grocery shopping and about hmm, 75% of the cooking? I cook for big events or guests, and he does the day to day stuff. I also pay all the bills and organized the purchase of our house/car, our wedding, etc. I asked him what he was making for dinner and he smiled and said 'I'm sorry, I'm going to be busy evolving tonight, I have a lot of catching up to do'
Its still making me laugh XD
LOL, that was really comical and quit amuzing on his part....boy you gals are lucky to have husbands that do all this stuff...you really are....
God, I did everything...everything, even the lawn work, while my husband sat on the sofa watching football...I swear, mother's taught they're son's how to be shear monsters...helpless.....I'll say this, you've got something good going for yourselves in that evolution....
thanks for sharing this....
I was reading an article written by the women who wrote live, laugh love. (might have the title wrong?) - she was one of Oprah's favourites, etc. It was about how hard women are on themselves these days - wanting to have ti all and be *the best* at all of it, and being really hard on themselves when they invariably fall short somewhere, whether at work or at home.
I find its difficult in my marriage sometimes because of pre-conceived notions. DH does the cooking, his share of cleaning, while I do bills, organize repairs, do most if not all planning for guests, etc. I've gotten frustrated because he can't fix ANYTHING or even put a shelf up. He jokes that he promises to make enough money to hire people to do these things, but I find myself wishing he was like my dad in that sense, able to fix/repair nearly any thing. Then I remember my dad NEVER made a meal, or washed a dish, or cleaned, or did any laundry, and I take it back immediatly :P
Creme: I think the way you do. I couldnt see where you disrespected Marriedchick. This is not about fighting or trying to change the way others feel.
Indeed this is a new generation and we are from the old one. But I think this is not getting anybetter with the new generation. Grandchildren are deprived of the unvaluable gift of having their granny's from both dad and mom's side. And sons are really happy about this (deep inside)?Imagine, when were raising our children who were the world to us, little did we know that some of us would lose our son (in many cases) once they got married.
This is a story.
There was this young lady who hated her mil so much that she went to visit a witch (or whatever) and told the witch that she couldn't stand her mil. She wanted the witch to help her kill her. The witch suggested that dil put a herb or something in her mother's in law tea everyday. This would eventually kill her. It would take a while, but it would happen. The witch also suggested the dil that during this time she treated dil with love and tolerance. This was with the purpose that she would never be blamed for poisoning her. So the dil did just as this witch told her. She started putting this herb on mil tea and was extremely nice and loving to her.
So, the mil started changing and return love to dil. After some time, dil really loved her mil and went to see the witch and told her she did not want her mil to die. "" Do something to reverse this, she said. The witch told her to not worry. That the herb she was putting in the tea was not poisonous and that mil would not die. She said, Ï wanted you to see how you can win the enemy with kindness. When you treat someone with love you will eventually get the same.
I love that too Nana!
Very good :) :) :)
Quote from: Nana on May 05, 2010, 01:00:13 PM
Creme: I think the way you do. I couldnt see where you disrespected Marriedchick. This is not about fighting or trying to change the way others feel.
Indeed this is a new generation and we are from the old one. But I think this is not getting anybetter with the new generation. Grandchildren are deprived of the unvaluable gift of having their granny's from both dad and mom's side. And sons are really happy about this (deep inside)?Imagine, when were raising our children who were the world to us, little did we know that some of us would lose our son (in many cases) once they got married.
This is a story.
There was this young lady who hated her mil so much that she went to visit a witch (or whatever) and told the witch that she couldn't stand her mil. She wanted the witch to help her kill her. The witch suggested that dil put a herb or something in her mother's in law tea everyday. This would eventually kill her. It would take a while, but it would happen. The witch also suggested the dil that during this time she treated dil with love and tolerance. This was with the purpose that she would never be blamed for poisoning her. So the dil did just as this witch told her. She started putting this herb on mil tea and was extremely nice and loving to her.
So, the mil started changing and return love to dil. After some time, dil really loved her mil and went to see the witch and told her she did not want her mil to die. "" Do something to reverse this, she said. The witch told her to not worry. That the herb she was putting in the tea was not poisonous and that mil would not die. She said, Ï wanted you to see how you can win the enemy with kindness. When you treat someone with love you will eventually get the same.
Nana, thank you...and thank you for sharing the story...when I first started reading it, I thought...OMG? Loved the ending, thank you....all one can do, is share they're perspectives from they're own experiences, and hope to help someone else along the way...I'm not always right...but I'm also not here to hurt anyone...I just sometime cannot understsand, why we all can't get along...yano?
I just cannot believe some of these stories...and how DIL's and MIL's treat each other? For what? Life is way to short.
From Cremebrulle:
QuoteMen cannot deal with stress or confrontations..
.
I think that is a major cop out. I think it's emasculating. I think it's untrue. Do you really think men are so weak that they can't deal with emotion?
Men run the military, politics, Fortune 500 companies, etc., etc.,. I will agree that men are socialized differently and can relate to situations differently than women...but to say they can't handle stress?
That's insulting.
Well, I know some guys that statement fits like a "T" but I also know a lot of women who qualify. Hummm...
I'm also guilty of saying..."You know how guys are." Guess I'd better take another look at that generalization (which is probably a nice word for prejudice.)
My DH acts cool and level-headed, but he really has a hard time with confrontation and stress. I don't like it either, but I don't run from it and recover from it sooner than he does. I think DS thrives on a certain kind of confrontation, but he doesn't like personal drama. My dad is pretty self-centered and tunes out when people aren't talking about him.
But, I know women who fit those descriptions perfectly! ;)
Anna, Mominwaiting and Creme: I am pleased you liked the story.
I just wanted to add is that I am a newie but I love this site and I feel I have known you for a long time. You are all so sweet. I am really enjoying being here. I wish I had known this site in very tough and sad times I had a couple of years ago with guess who? yes my dil. I searched and searched for a site like this and now I dont even know how I bumpled into it. As I have mentioned things straighten up and Oh do I thank God (miracles do happen) but my heart is with all of you because I have walked in your shoes. We share the same stories of sadness and despair. May God Bless you all!
Quote1Glitterati
From Cremebrulle:
I think that is a major cop out. I think it's emasculating. I think it's untrue. Do you really think men are so weak that they can't deal with emotion?
Men run the military, politics, Fortune 500 companies, etc., etc.,. I will agree that men are socialized differently and can relate to situations differently than women...but to say they can't handle stress?
That's insulting.
Hi Glitterati
I can certainly understand your feelings to my comment about men not being able to handle stress....it was certainly not meant as an insult....it was a quick comment due to studies our class performed years ago in school....and wrong of me to thow it out there so matter of factly, pretty irresponsible on my part....
allow me to explain if I may...
We did research back then, as it was scientifically proving that men were not only dying quicker then women, but it was also thought they were not dealing with stress well.or as well as women. It was a prov-en survey conducted by medical researches which stated that this was happening for several reasons...back then, men were subjected to the stigma that it was not acceptable to show emotion...men had to be tough and strong...and because women are much more emotional creatures, it was proving that women released they're stress a lot better then men, hence, men were developing heart disease and other medical problems due to stress...holding it in, triggering this study because men were dying sooner then women...
It was thought, since back then, men were the bread winners...bill payers....etc....house fixers, yard caretakers etc...they were definitely dealing with stress but suppressing it...and I do remember a big what to do, back then, from physiologists releasing statistics about this, which triggered our study on the subject in school.
What medical professionals and psychologists tried to do, was to report on the news, talk shows, articles, etc.... encouraging men to show emotion, to tell them, that it was OK to cry...to let out they're anxieties and stress...however, it was then in vain, as men were subjected by society to not project that manly aspect of
not showing emotion, it was a big big deal....because they're fathers, were appalled at the idea that men should show emotion and cry...as they were conditioned or ingrained to believe it showed weakness....therefore, it was thought, that men were dying much sooner then women, because they could not handle stress, due to not being able to release it as well as woman....and the long term effects of this was, that men were dying a lot sooner then women, as much as 10 - 15 years sooner.
While what you say is correct and I again, shouldn't have been generalizing...I didn't think it would upset anyone to make that statement....however, I was wrong and I did...so I do apologize. I do tend to generalize a lot...and think outloud which isn't good and will offend others...I'm still trying to work on that...
An article on the subject....today...
In today's world men in general still fear showing emotion...they tend to hold it in...and it is proven that women have always been able to multi task much better then most men....and deal with the stress of it all...better then men...however, after looking at all the data, and how stress has affected both men and women over the last 20 to 30 years, one can really start to wonder if their first observations or assumptions about how each gender handles stress. Maybe women do not actually handle it any better than men, or maybe, life as a whole is becoming more stressed now than it ever was. One has to think about this too; with all this new technology that was meant to make our lives easier, the weekly hours of work has not decreased, they have increased. Though everything is being put onto the computer, people can type as much or more than 80 words a minute, and the internet is as fast as ever, our lives still seem to be more packed, hyper and busier than ever.
Now look at it from a family woman's point of view; older values and traditions are still seen clearly in this generation. So, not only is a woman expected to be useful and have a successful career, she has to look after her kids, her husband and the house. It is no wonder that women are starting to see similar numbers in the heart disease column as men. This is why women should be taking a moment, especially if they are feeling extra stressed.Yes, your statement is true...men do certainly play an effective role in military life, and career wise, it has always been that way...however, in the same, back 20 - 30 years ago, even though men played that major role in society...it was then thought that men could not handle stress as well as women...why? Because they were overloaded with stress not to mention, they thought it to be unacceptable for men to vocalize they're emotions....and men were actually dying much before women, which triggered the study...which proved that men, could not handle stress factors as well as women...
I can remember the great arguments back then from what we considered macho men, and how appauled they were when all of a sudden, culture tried to tell them they needed to change and express emotion, even tears...that is is OK to cry...and let me tell you, some men didn't take kindly to that suggestion....LOL, however, time and women proved to help men along to understand that it was in fact not only ok to show emotion and cry, but very necessary for a better more effective life healthwise.
If your interested, here is an article from Time Magazine...Men are still dying sooner then women...but there is now different theories on the subject, which I find interesting....
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1827162,00.html
Thank you for pointing this out to me, however, I am sorry you were insulted by my comment....you have helped me, research the subject and learn something...I hope this helps you understand, why I made that comment...
Quote from: Nana on May 05, 2010, 09:56:07 PM
Anna, Mominwaiting and Creme: I am pleased you liked the story.
I just wanted to add is that I am a newie but I love this site and I feel I have known you for a long time. You are all so sweet. I am really enjoying being here. I wish I had known this site in very tough and sad times I had a couple of years ago with guess who? yes my dil. I searched and searched for a site like this and now I dont even know how I bumpled into it. As I have mentioned things straighten up and Oh do I thank God (miracles do happen) but my heart is with all of you because I have walked in your shoes. We share the same stories of sadness and despair. May God Bless you all!
I'm smiling Nana, as this post made me realize, once again, how important this site is to all of us...it has certainly helped me in tough times...and awakened me to a constant necessary work in progress and change...welcome, I'm glad your here...the women here are pretty darn special....I can't speak for them, but have myself found, somehow, the more hardships I've experience in life, the stronger I've become...not to mentioned, learned and survived....I've learned that man is a very strong creature and that life is so valuable...b/c it prepares us for what is to come next...and the next and even after that....I used to wonder why man sufferes so....and in my own disillusional logical, ;D I have come to believe that the hard times we experience are just as important as the good times...everything on the face of this earth is composed of positive and negative energy for a reason...and I think that reason is...to value and cherish happiness when we have it...however long or short that time is...and to learn not to dweal on the negative, but to identify, that within that negative, there has got to be some thing productive for me personally to learn...sometimes it takes a few minutes, sometimes days, sometimes years...but God willing answers do come when open up our hearts to kindness and love...I can't tell you how many times I've said, "I don't believe it took me that long to learn?"
Welcome dear lady....nice of you to join in...and another reason I'm smiling is, because you said you searched and searched...and now you found us...if it would not be for Luise, we would not have this site....many of us searched and searched for a long time....
I hope time has healed your problems with DIL...and I'd really like to hear your story when your ready...as I'm sure the others here would to....
God Bless you to, and thank you...
Creme
Quote from: Anna on May 05, 2010, 01:56:46 PM
Nana, I absolutely love that story about the witch. I have said many times you catch more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar. If someone is grumpy just smile right back & be as nice as you can. It really knocks the grumpy person for a loop. At first they don't know what to do & I've won over many a grump this way. :D
You couldn't be more right Anna....
Quote from: luise.volta on May 05, 2010, 07:23:22 PM
Well, I know some guys that statement fits like a "T" but I also know a lot of women who qualify. Hummm...
I'm also guilty of saying..."You know how guys are." Guess I'd better take another look at that generalization (which is probably a nice word for prejudice.)
You and me both...I tend to generalize way to much...but I don't consider it being prejudice???? Perhaps I'm wrong? I love both genders....and I know you do to...
Creme:
Yes I am very grateful to Luise to have start this site. She is great and so all of you. Yes, we need hardship in our lives, first to make us stronger, more humble, more human and because we can value what we have when we have it. But we need our sisters in our lives to help us put our feet back on the ground and to encourage and support us when things are bad. We women are fortunate and lucky too have other woman in which to rely and get hugs and kisses when in need. We have this advantage over men, they are very lonely when in trouble and it is hard for them to confide in someone when they need it.
When I refer to sisters I mean all the important women in our lives (sisters, friends, mother, sometimes mil, daughters) This I read.
Nana
Hi Nana
yanno, when we women don't get along we can be utterly brutal...however, I don't believe there is a bond like the bond between women...
Oft times I said, and maybe it's just me, however, I never ever knew a man, or had a close friendship with a man, that was as nurturing and complete and forever, no matter what our differences were or are, as my bonds with women....
I agree about female relationships 100%. Even my DH, who I love deeply is not my best friend. That role belongs to another female. She, among other girlfriends - get me! I can say totally what is in my heart and mind at all times without any fear of being misunderstood. I grew up in a family of all girls (my poor Dad) but married and had 3 sons. It has been quite the education for me. LOL! I know for a fact that men and women think, relate and process differently. I'm living with that reality!
Creme...I'm not insulted. And, yes, I'm aware that men typically handle stress differently than women. In the past...yes, it may have been more detrimental...but it doesn't mean they can't handle it and have to be coddled.
It's just interesting to me the different povs...dils saying his family his responsibility. Mils saying if you loved him you'd do this for him. I don't think there's going to be a meeting of the minds on this one.
I don't need DIL to buy a card or gift for me "from DS" or from her, for that matter - I'd rather she didn't, actually. DS's gifts, when he buys them, are meaningful because he knows us and tries to find something we'll love. DIL either regifts or gives me something that has nothing to do with me or my interests. If my DIL ever got to know me, I'd welcome whatever she felt like doing for me but wouldn't expect anything.
All I want is for DS to have the freedom/support to feel comfortable about maintaining a relationship with us. It breaks my heart when he can't talk freely when she's around. We get the best texts & calls and have the best face-to-face conversations when she's not there.
If I ever found out that my DH had to work around me that way just to talk comfortably with his parents, I'd be mortified and would immediately do whatever I could to correct it. Many DILs say, "If he wanted to maintain his relationship with his FOO he would; if he doesn't it must not be important to him." I disagree - I think that our husbands know we'll make their lives a living *bleep* if they go against us, so they often figure their FsOO will understand if contact is rare.
exactly Pen, my son told me that, he was devestated...all our son's want is our approval....when we try to talk to them about our DIL's they take it as if we're bashing them...we're not, we're trying to relate to them our side of the story, however, they are so torn and placed in the middle of all this...and yes, some DIL's do make it a living bleep b/c if they're husbands, (our sons) say anything in our favor, our DIL's think, they are disloyal to them and siding with us, and visa versa...and I know that hurt, so I know my DIL was also experiencing that hurt, however, some DIL's do not...some are just so darn stubborn...not all of course...and it causes fights between them and disarry...so what would anyone do, but side with wife...I know if I were a Man, I would, (I think) depending on my age...however, if I were a man and this were going on now, at my age, I'd sit both of them down in front of me, and say, enough...I love you both...and I want this to stop...this is ridiculous...your both misunderstanding each other and it's going to stop now...
but most men, cannot do that...they fear causing any confrontation....I myself hate confrontation....
Pen, did you ever say this in front of your son and then ask him if he knows if there is anything you can do to correct this?
All I want is for DS to have the freedom/support to feel comfortable about maintaining a relationship with us. It breaks my heart when he can't talk freely when she's around. We get the best texts & calls and have the best face-to-face conversations when she's not there.
My son is the same way,YS,EX,and myself..........all say,you can tell when DIL is around when you call,and not there we you see them in person...........he is very different when she is around.
I guess he has learned to modify his behaviour...........like we have,to cope.
Quote from: penstamen on May 06, 2010, 02:45:03 PM
I think that our husbands know we'll make their lives a living *bleep* if they go against us, so they often figure their FsOO will understand if contact is rare.
I think that can be true. Honestly...sometimes I wish it were true in my house. It's selfish, and maybe one day I'd regret it...but I'd be happier if he did what I wanted him to do in regards to his family. He won't...so I drop the rope.
I appreciate your honesty glitterati.
Why would you be happier?
One time OS and DIL came down for a visit.........which she trys every thing in her power to not do.
When one of the GC cry,and it goes on and on it gets on son nerves,as mothers we can relate.I've been there done that.
When they got back home,son calls,says Mom GC cried to two solid hours............i was shocked!and heart broken,i said why would you let him cry like that,why would you not pull over?She would not let me,kept saying no,keep driving!..........Why would a mother not pull over to comfort her baby?
I really feel she knew this would drive him nuts,so he would not ask to come see me again.
And thats exactly what i heard the next time i ask them to come home.
When they first got married,he went hunting,She said,I'll show him........i just bought central vac,if he goes hunting i'll just spend money........2nd hunting season,bought a 2,000.00 piece of furniture.
I just dont get it!
Quote from: Mominwaiting on May 06, 2010, 04:54:02 PM
I appreciate your honesty glitterati.
Why would you be happier?
Because they would be punished for what they did...by not having their son in their lives. If they didn't have their son in their lives...they certainly wouldn't have our children in their lives.
I would also be able to force the sale of this house (which I don't have fond feelings for considering everything that has happened---and is right across the pasture from them) and we would move away with no forwarding address or phone numbers.
However, those things won't be happening. Since they won't, I drop the rope. I can only control my actions and feelings and choices. No one else's. I choose to drop the rope and withdraw. HOnestly, once you say "I"m done with this" and are...things become a lot easier and a whole lot more peaceful and less anxious.
I take it they did some thing REALLY bad :(
I must of missed this story.
Quote from: Mominwaiting on May 06, 2010, 07:15:29 PM
I take it they did some thing REALLY bad :(
I must of missed this story.
Yes...they did. And...although I'm still angry and very bitter...it isn't anything like it used to be. As I said before...just throwing my hands up and saying "I'm done" has bought me a lot of peace. Has reduced a lot of stress around here, too.
Dh arranges his own visits and arranges kid visits after we talk. We have our own holidays in the morning or early afternoon and then he goes and visits in the late afternoon or early evening if he decides to do so.
Where is your post? i would like to read it
Quote from: cremebrulee on May 06, 2010, 03:00:26 PM
exactly Pen, my son told me that, he was devestated...all our son's want is our approval....when we try to talk to them about our DIL's they take it as if we're bashing them...we're not, we're trying to relate to them our side of the story, however, they are so torn and placed in the middle of all this...and yes, some DIL's do make it a living bleep b/c if they're husbands, (our sons) say anything in our favor, our DIL's think, they are disloyal to them and siding with us, and visa versa...and I know that hurt, so I know my DIL was also experiencing that hurt, however, some DIL's do not...some are just so darn stubborn...not all of course...and it causes fights between them and disarry...so what would anyone do, but side with wife...I know if I were a Man, I would, (I think) depending on my age...however, if I were a man and this were going on now, at my age, I'd sit both of them down in front of me, and say, enough...I love you both...and I want this to stop...this is ridiculous...your both misunderstanding each other and it's going to stop now...
but most men, cannot do that...they fear causing any confrontation....I myself hate confrontation....
Pen, did you ever say this in front of your son and then ask him if he knows if there is anything you can do to correct this?
All I want is for DS to have the freedom/support to feel comfortable about maintaining a relationship with us. It breaks my heart when he can't talk freely when she's around. We get the best texts & calls and have the best face-to-face conversations when she's not there.
Creme, I will not talk to DS about DIL. I've never said a word. DS has said things to us about how DIL's dislike of us hurts him, but I am very vague in my response and will not take sides. The only thing I've ever said was "She's your wife and comes first now. You need to work it out with her." It was so tempting to jump in and start venting, but I managed to contain myself. If he were to tell her anything from me that might be the least little bit negative, it would eventually blow up in my face. When DS & I have a good conversation on those rare times she's not around, I just say "I really enjoy catching up with you" or something similarly supportive but vague in hopes he'll get it one of these days.
This situation hurts me heaps; DS is a funny, intelligent, well-educated guy and I seriously miss our conversations. I miss my son, but I'm never going to say anything specific about DIL or her role in our diminished contact. I'm smart enough to know it will not work out well for me.
Quote from: penstamen on May 06, 2010, 10:34:49 PM
Quote from: cremebrulee on May 06, 2010, 03:00:26 PM
exactly Pen, my son told me that, he was devestated...all our son's want is our approval....when we try to talk to them about our DIL's they take it as if we're bashing them...we're not, we're trying to relate to them our side of the story, however, they are so torn and placed in the middle of all this...and yes, some DIL's do make it a living bleep b/c if they're husbands, (our sons) say anything in our favor, our DIL's think, they are disloyal to them and siding with us, and visa versa...and I know that hurt, so I know my DIL was also experiencing that hurt, however, some DIL's do not...some are just so darn stubborn...not all of course...and it causes fights between them and disarry...so what would anyone do, but side with wife...I know if I were a Man, I would, (I think) depending on my age...however, if I were a man and this were going on now, at my age, I'd sit both of them down in front of me, and say, enough...I love you both...and I want this to stop...this is ridiculous...your both misunderstanding each other and it's going to stop now...
but most men, cannot do that...they fear causing any confrontation....I myself hate confrontation....
Pen, did you ever say this in front of your son and then ask him if he knows if there is anything you can do to correct this?
All I want is for DS to have the freedom/support to feel comfortable about maintaining a relationship with us. It breaks my heart when he can't talk freely when she's around. We get the best texts & calls and have the best face-to-face conversations when she's not there.
Creme, I will not talk to DS about DIL. I've never said a word. DS has said things to us about how DIL's dislike of us hurts him, but I am very vague in my response and will not take sides. The only thing I've ever said was "She's your wife and comes first now. You need to work it out with her." It was so tempting to jump in and start venting, but I managed to contain myself. If he were to tell her anything from me that might be the least little bit negative, it would eventually blow up in my face. When DS & I have a good conversation on those rare times she's not around, I just say "I really enjoy catching up with you" or something similarly supportive but vague in hopes he'll get it one of these days.
This situation hurts me heaps; DS is a funny, intelligent, well-educated guy and I seriously miss our conversations. I miss my son, but I'm never going to say anything specific about DIL or her role in our diminished contact. I'm smart enough to know it will not work out well for me.
makes me so sad....however, just wanted to say, you are wise not to talk to him...I couldn't keep my mouth shut...I wish I had...like you I was so hurt, frustrated...it is devestating and like your running around in circles with your foot nailed to the floor
Pen, I do hope someday things work out for the best, and your DIL grows up....
It is amazing what people will do out of bitterness, fear, rejection, hate, misunderstanding...It drives me literally speechless and all one can do is shake they're heads...I don't understand, the desire to hurt others? And in your case, your son is very much aware of it...he must also be devestated...wish he could get her into counseling...?
As most of us have, I've been hurt pretty bad in my lifetime, and I never ever wish to make someone else feel like that...it's awful Pen...
please know my thoughts and prayers are with you, and thank you for being so patient and explaining things to me...I appreciate your kindness....
Quote from: Anna on May 07, 2010, 05:43:28 AM
Pen, you are very wise not to say anythng. Creme, I'm like you, I wish I had kept my mouth shut. Sometimes I want to go buy string & sew my lips shut!! It is so hard when you are hurt & confused to know what to do. I wish I had been wise enough to find a site like this way back when dils behaviour changed so drastically.
I fear confrontation too. I just want everyone to get along, for everyone to just love each other. LOL. I know, not very realistic, but wouldn't that be great?? No conflict, ever. We'd probably all live to be 130. :D
LOL, yeah, I hear yah...
I don't want to live to be 130, I'd be to stubborn and couldn't accept all the new technology...LOL
Cell phones drive me nuts...really...
I can't imagine what's coming in the next 40 years?
I'd feel like a lost soul on a planet with aliens...
Quote from: Anna on May 07, 2010, 06:02:41 AM
Me too, but I sure would like to see what future generations will experience. I think I am going to live to 100, I don't know why I think this, but I have since I was a little girl??
well Anna, I'll save you a place at the table when I get there...
that is, if I get there?
Anna:
What a wonderful world would it be that we all live in harmony and in peace with each other. But then it would not be earth, it would be heaven. But it would indeed be great. We deserve heaven .....and we''ll get it eventually.
I dont think I can ever get to 130. I worry to much. I thank God if I reach 80.
Hugs and kisses
I used my age to get some projects done around my house last weekend...I said to DH, who can procrastinate, "How many viable years do you think we have left?" He looked at me funny, and I started to do the math aloud. Even if we live a good long time, there's not an endless number of years that we can assume we'll be able to climb ladders and haul dirt around. He went to the home center and got supplies for a big project that afternoon! We've got some nice things happening around the old homestead these days ;)
Good for you Anna, each post you type I get to know you better and like you a bit more! You must be a very hard working lady, I really admire that. I need to get huge project going this weekend to take my mind off the shunning I get so that DIL and her mother can enjoy the day my son is treating them to. Otherwise I will walk around biting everyone's heads off and crying alot. My daughter is going to be at a retreat all weekend so she has already left right from school. I am glad she is enjoying herself but I am lonely for Mother's Day. Hope your day will be great!
I use my age to get things done, too. People look at me and just start helping because I guess I look like I am about to fall over. ;D :o (Much of the time I probably am but it's still nice to be cherished.)
I don't think about how long I've got left, though. Not if I can help it! Not at 83 when half of the people in our nursing facility where Val is now...are younger than I am! Whoa!! ;D :(
Luise, I'm dealing with a real procrastinator here...I have to shock him into action sometimes!
Good plan, Pen! ;D