I just finished my organizational politics and power class for my MBA (halfway done! Woohoo!).
Anyhow, this was an incredibly powerful course for me. I read a lot of books, and a few I felt pertained to my situation with my in-laws. In fact, I believe my professor mentioned his in-laws several times as examples.
Here is some of the literature we read:
"Dinosaur Brains: Dealing with All Those Impossible People at Work"
"Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In"
"Stumbling Upon Happiness"
The books are old, but relevant. These are strictly superficial reads, but it made me think. Boundaries came up a lot A LOT. I beleive our generation has been taught to believe that boundaries are to be given out readily. "You need to train people how to treat you," was the theme of the course (aside from trying to make sure YOU yourself aren't engaging in any of the behaviors you might find obnoxious). The "training" of other people is done in the form of boundaries, and it is encouraged to be done before you even know whether people are difficult or not. If you lop "at work" off of the first title, it's a pretty handy guide (as well as a good way to validate your own feelings on occasion).
Turns out, I saw a lot of the dinosaur behavior in myself. It did give some resolutions as to how to deal with types of difficult people, and it listed tips as to how one can avoid engaging in that type of behavior themselves.
Stumbling Upon Happiness was interesting because it made me realize happiness is a state of mind not a destination. It was a little scientific with lots of anecdotal evidence, but it did help me to realize that happiness doesn't come from the situation at hand, it comes from within.
Not all of it was relevant to family situations, but it all gave me a ton of insight into my own.
Ah, I forgot my main point:
Getting to Yes was a great book in dealing with conflict. If you can get through the political examples that are used, I think it has some useful advice. Plus, it's a fast read anyhow, so if you didn't like it, you didn't waste much time.
It helped me negotiate an increase in my workload at work b/c I've been wanting to take on more responsibility. It also helped me sit in the hotseat for a little while longer when DH and I are "having a discussion."
but can it help you get out of a b-day party while remodeling weekend? :) j/k
The books sound interesting.. and I think you may have hit on something with people heading towards a trend of feeling like they need to train people how to treat you... To where it was always, training yourself to know how to properly deal with how people treat you.
This very well could be where so many clashes begin.. mil's taking offense to being 'trained' lol.. doesn't even sound nice does it. You know I've actually heard that method applied towards husbands and not just by the younger generation.
Hi Holly,
sounds interesting. may check out those books at the library.
I do feel women may need to train men as to how they want to be treated! And having said that maybe that piece I wrote under
successes, is about training my ds how I want to be treated.
Yes but Tara do you really want or expect to be treated any differently then how he would treat another person? I think when kids are young this is where the 'training' comes in...and if applied to everyday life there really 'shouldn't' be an issue when they are adults.. ok that was the perfect world.. but once someone is an adult and you then feel like they need to be trained.. I just don't see it being overly successful.
Are having certain expectations in a husband/wife relationship consider training.. maybe I'm just looking at it incorrectly
You must be so clever Holls , an MBA is an incredible achievement !!
My ODS has an MA in Economics , couldn't afford to study for an MBA and couldn't get a company
to sponsor him ...Well done you , don't know how you find the time for everything else .
Thanks! Sending love...
It does sound funny but I kinda think everyone does it. Most people just get it right away lol, oh Pam doesn't like this is easy enough for most people. Or my MIL is touchy about that, ok I can stop that. The problem is when you encounter someone who can't or won't pick up those cues.
I guess I just looked at it as learning and blending..... lol.. I didn't know I trained him... I guess that since I showed dogs I was use to training the dogs.. they stood the way I wanted, moved the way I wanted.. ok I guess my dh is still in training cause I can't get him to do either of those things when I want.
lol, if only I could get DH to put his dish in the sink...I may have to start using the faucet hose on him.
phooey on the sink... I want them in the dishwasher... I have him outside right now weed eating the trees.. i'm cleaning can you tell lol
Laurie, it might be wishingful thinking on my part re: ds. Thats one of my issues. On the other hand after talking to
Josh Coleman at length, he seemed to think ds would never be a model son, but there was some room for improvement
if I speak up about my needs. Time will tell.
eeeks I just got caught... later ladies :(
hahaha, I was just coming on to tell you that I haven't had enough time to get DH properly trained, one step at a time. Dish in the sink, then dish in the dishwasher lol. We go slowly around here
Oh, we did have a success. Birthday party will be first. Renovations will be not so much renovations but small jobs around the house that need doing...and it's not 7 days, it'll be 5. DH realized a party and construction are not complementary. I didn't have to say a word.
I do think the pendulum has swung from one generation to the next. But, Dr. Phil, other psychologists, my MBA courses and my therapist have all talked about boundaries. My guess is that our society is just getting more individualistic. That is why there is no escaping the boundary talk.
I did have to set up one boundary at work: a guy was sitting at my desk repeatedly in the mornings waiting to clock in. Don't ask me why, but I just can't have that.
so what did you do to him?
Wow, that is weird Holly. Is he normal otherwise?
He had done it for several days in a row (I think he might be stalking the girl next to me). He just talks to her a lot and he doesn't talk to anyone. He is in his 50s, and he has a lot of health problems; he is on a lot of medicine since a stroke 2 years ago. I hear he was okay then.
I said, "Good morning, Get up."
He got up. I said, "What are you doing here in the morning?"
"Oh I wait for so-and-so to come in"
I said, "I'm not comfortable with you being in my desk in the morning because I do keep personal items here and I would like to come into an empty chair in the morning. Plus, you have your own the exact same distance from the clock. Please don't do it again."
He said sorry. I probably would have let it continue for a litte longer had I not been concerned about the girl next to me; but I've never seen someone sit in someone else's desk like that before!
It's been two days since then and now he is sitting in her other neighbor's chair, even further from the time clock. Her husband works there too, but that doesn't seem to be a deterrent. My guess is the next boundary setting will take place in management's office.
Creeeeepy! Have you asked the girl if she's ok? Sometimes that stuff spirals out of control and the stalking victim feels like they can't talk about it or go to management.
What a nut
I pointed it out to her. She said she felt bad b/c she is the only one he talks to. Seriously, he doesn't talk unless you force him to, yet he always comes over to her cubicle to chat.
She's a really nice, really young girl, and very pretty. She is uncomfortable...I think her husband is walking her to her cubicle now. The guy told her he needed her address. She said, "Why do you need my address?" He said, "In case I need to let your dogs out."
????????
I told her I would go to management if she didn't. I guess he is diabetic, and she was afraid he NEEDED to sit whereever he had a chance due to low insulin at times. I certainly hope that isn't the case.
My neck hair is standing up.
I would just go report him on my own, Holly. I know I'm probably not telling you anything new, but this would seriously give me the willies and I take these cases quite a bit. This is how they start out.
I wanted to update you on this, Pam. I was the second employee to file a complaint for crazy guy's behavior. It was addressed publicly and he was told the only chair he could sit in was his own, and he was not to wait by the clock until it was time to leave.
The girl next to me that was having problems mentioned that she knew another coworker had complained and she really wished that person minded her own business and that she could handle her own problems.
I told her that I also reported it. She got quiet. I said, "Look, coworker and I saw weird behavior that was making us uncomfortable and you uncomfortable as well. I know you feel bad for him, but it wasn't you that put a stop to it. It was us. In that respect, the end result had nothing to do with you, but you get to enjoy the safety and security of your own space and you never had to say a word. Besides, doesn't the fact that the rest of us took notice of his inappropriate behavior give you satisfaction that it wasn't just all in your head?"
She walked away...then came back. She said told me I was right and that she hadn't looked at it like that. She was afraid to say something herself, so that means that the other complaints filed means she won't really have to at least for now. She also said that she didn't want to make more of his behavior than it was.
That was two weeks ago, and he has stopped all of that behavior for now. My coworker is still feels guilty...and I admit, I'm kind of dimissive about that. I generally roll my eyes and say, "Do you miss him coming over here?" Not nice, I know, but she admits now that his behavior was scary and that she is glad he stays away from her desk, she's just sad for him because he has no friends.
I think it very interesting that she is 6 hours older than me. I've never met someone born on the same day and year as me. Not really a big deal, but I could just so see everything she said coming out of my mouth if I were in her place. LOL.
Thanks for updating me, Holly! I was wondering.
I think it was big of you to step in, so many people just look away and say not my problem. It's difficult b/c these creeps pick out people who feel bad for them. They rely on that and escalate the situation so that it is difficult to tell what is what. If he had progressed and she finally went to seek help, no doubt there would have been claiming well she didn't mind before! I saw them together all the time!
I'm with Pam. I think that's it great that you stepped up too Holly. You did her a huge favor and probably saved her some major grief.
Glad you spoke up Holly.
Sometimes these things escallate as Pam mentioned.
I worried that he sounded psychotic or delusional when he said he wanted her
address to let her dog out....Also, loners, not a good sign. I used to do sexual
harassment and violence in the workplace training and interventions when I
was at UCSF. You did the right thing.
You deserve a big congrats - wow - you have done a lot.
What you read is important basics, and boundaries are very important. Something we as mothers don't do with our DC early enough as we want to "fix" everything.
Yes, we have to train people to what we will and will not tolerate, something I learned late in life, but I finally learned it.
I am glad you wrote this, as it is valuable people understand boundaries are not inherent as they once were, they do have to be imposed.
Thank you for your great insight into your great coursework and for sharing.