I have a question for other MILs who may have anticipated a warm relationship with their DILs, but instead got a territorial DIL who made it clear she wanted very little to do with her husband's FOO. Many of us on this board have that history - We were welcoming to DIL, but were repeatedly rebuffed by her - then we accepted her terms and ceased reaching out to her, as she made it clear she had no interest.
I find that after several years of trying, I just didn't care anymore. Initially I had my feelings hurt - but after a while, I felt only annoyance, no hurt feelings. I just kept going through the motions in order to stay connected to DS, but wasn't really investing my heart in any kind of relationship with her. I respect her position as his wife, but do not find her very likeable. Not the kind of person I'd ever seek out for companionship or as a friend. I no longer get hurt by her and I think it is because my heart is now closed to her. I just don't care anymore. I accept the relationship on her terms, and I genuinely prefer to spend my time and energies on people who like me and want to connect with me - although i am perfectly capable of going through the motions with her, and neither DH or I have ever said a critical word to DS about DIL.
I know this would never happen - but suppose that a chilly DIL such as this decides, down the road, she DOES want to be part of the family, etc. Yes, I KNOW it would never happen - but suppose it did? Do you MILS who have been given the cold shoulder think you would be open to a real relationship with DIL? Or would it be impossible after all the snubs? I got to thinking how comfortable I have become with the relationship compartmentalized -- DS relates to her, and he relates to us, but we have virtually no interaction with her. I fear that my heart would not be open to her after all the snubs - and I am truly more comfortable NOT having any kind of relationship with her than I would be if I were expected to really have any kind of relationship. I really don't think I could open my heart to her after all these years.
What do the rest of you MILs think?
Once again, long time no visit here...ahhh such is life huh? I agree that I too really no longer have hurt feelings because of cold and distant DIL who only wants her FOO involved in their lives, and my sons FOO is now totally removed from their lives and has been for almost 16 months now. I figure I have a life, and it's a good one, although hectic at times, so I refuse to play into any drama or call them or beg them for a relationship etc. I am okay with things the way they are. I am missing out on a relationship with my 2 grandaughters, but that is really what DIL has wanted every since the very beginning of their relationship. And it is my sons wife, and his choice to go along with her, but then he has to live with her! I wish them no ill will, I hope they are all well and happy. But I do not sit and mope and be sad...life goes on. I am still raising a grandaughter who is going to be 13 this summer, and we want her life to be happy and free of fighting and drama. Her mother once again sneaked away in the night after being back for only a month or so. So again I say I agree with this posters choice to be happy with the relationship she has with her DIL (or the LACK of a relationship!)...I feel the very same way! I only need positive relationships where respect and kindness is mutual. Trying to change others is futile. Wishing all you wonderful people here Happy Holidays, and hopes for a wonderful new year!
My DIL is now trying to be pleasant and polite around us (I say trying because she sometimes cannot sustain it for an entire visit, and I suspect some game-playing behind our backs) after shunning us and telling DS she hated us because we were losers. DH & I find it difficult to leap back in with our hearts open, but we have never brought up her unfortunate statement or treated her with anything less than civility if not kindness. Perhaps one day, after years of good DIL behavior, if we feel we can trust her with our feelings, we'll give her our unconditional love again. Until then, we're holding something in reserve.
It's sad, because this hesitancy and wariness affect our previously close, easy, fun relationship w/DS. I miss it.
Leopards don't change their spots. My DIL is emotionally abusive, cruel and malicious to my son and her FOO. To change her personality, you would have to shoot her. I wouldn't give her 5 minutes of my time or ever open my door to her again. If she decides she wants a relationship with me it's because the other tactics that she's used to try to control me or express her hostility haven't worked and she's trying a different approach.
I am on the same journey. Oftentimes, I consider what DIL has said and done and wonder what her point is. I learned here that we do not need to waste our time trying to figure this stuff out, it makes no sense. I would reframe your feelings to not be closed hearted as just that you have made realistic expectations in order to avoid upsets. If DIL is kind, she really does feel better. Almost like she cannot help herself...personality, habit, misunderstanding, who knows why? That is life...do what makes you feel happy though. I like being myself, kind, forgiving, tolerant and avoiding stressful people as much as I can. If being mean to DS FOO does not suck for DIL, well, how is that working for her? I personally do not want to keep going over and over old ground about what she said/and what she did - to end up frustrated, hurt and dreading seeing the DS or GC. I woke up this morning with an angel message about my DIL because she did something subtle to shun us, and prevent us from saying one last goodby to our DS and other DS on our recent visit. I get that she can control who comes in to her house. I also get that I feel she is controlling how close we are to them. And I am working on letting all my fears about that go...I don't want to waste my waking hours on something I cannot change. It happened, it sucked, and move on. I personally think I have to work on my relationship with DS to make me feel happy when this stuff happens. My suggestion for you to rebuild a relationship in the future, is be prepared on how you would like to act. One idea is that everyone thrives on compliments. If DIL changes her behavior and you are still skeptical about getting close to her, give her a compliment. A relationship can be rebuilt on trust. Watch and see what happens next, give it time. My DIL is not trustworthy, time and time again. So I don't expect something she cannot deliver. She is family, though, my DS loves her, my GC love her, her family loves her, and so we love her, she is our special needs DIL. We all have her moments don't we? She has them on princess time - which is 100% of the time. Don't get me wrong, we are not perfect and have personalities to deal with just like her. She prefers her own family and it is up to my DS to include us. He is not Mr Innocent here. If my expectations are low for DS, then that might be where I need to work on the problem. I should focus on building up DS relationship with me to withstand stress from DIL. I agree with pen definitely to not bring up past grudges, here is okay with us. I mean instead I would learn to deal in the moment with unplesantries with kindness. I am glad I don't have to live with DIL, she has started seeing a psychologist and really does get credit for going for help. Some people cannot afford getting help, some don't want to change. It is not just all about you, that's for sure. My 2-cents. But I woke up on your side of the world today and thought I would offer some help. Thanks for posting we will work on it together. sending peace
I lost what I had written so sorry if 2 posts show up on this.
I simply meant to say that the first time around, I worked on building a relationship with DIL that included trust and respect and so on. If she ever decided to speak to me again, I can imagine a relationship but without the trust or respect. What do you call that?
I'm not worried about being the warm, welcoming, understanding, accepting, helpful MIL to this one anymore. I'd be comfortable being the wary MIL if I have the opportunity again.
I'm not sure how it would manifest with your DIL. If she was suddenly friendly one day, you could ride that wave and enjoy it without opening yourself up totally to her again. I think you could not open your heart so much and still be a decent MIL.
I don't know if this is off the subject, but instead of being territorial about son getting involved, engaged, married, etc., I was looking forward to having a "near daughter" as we have no daughter of our own (I'm sure many of you anticipated this type of relationship also and this is what is so heart-wrenching to find that the FOO and friends of DIL are more than adequate for dil.)
Why did I think this would happen? (Water under the bridge but ds's ex gf and I could visit about so many personal things, email, share common interests, laughed and had fun, she truly wanted to be at our home, sometimes passing up her own gatherings for ours! Her whole extended family loved our ds and so friendly to us.
.....but they broke up and dil and I don't speak the same language ((not literally!))) The ex had her own FOO but they and she loved our ds and I loved her as a daughter. But..... ds grew out of love w her and I knew the end was coming to that relationship.
Forgive the digression and wish for days gone by w the ex gf but it was a long-standing relationship and I miss it when I think of her; but of course this was ds's choice and I was sad silently and never ever mention or mentioned the ex to ds or dil...... these things happen to many mothers who adore an ex gf! Life happens and ds found someone who fit his perfect vision and is just finding things that are not so perfect though he still loves and is committed to his dw. We accepted his choice hoping that the new gf would soon love us, too....
I usually don't think of the ex (fortunately she has moved on) but it was like losing a daughter and soon getting a dil that just doesn't have much feeling for us; (there's not much feeling for any outsider that joins the FOO; outsiders are people who take away from the FOO and dil will tell me things about the new married-ins that lets me know that dh and I are an annoyance too although superficially we get along w FOO and dil).....
Just had to adjust to losing the ex gf "daughter" to rapidly accepting new one and a fairly rapidly acquired dil. (Of course no dil would have been perfect so let go of the dream ((I tell myself)) already!)
I wonder how many of you are disappointed in not getting your "near daughter?" hadn't really thought of this for a while. Do chat some with younger ladies in my class, etc., which sort of helps. (And of course I know I'm not dil's idea of a perfect MIL!)
DIL doesn't hate us, just doesn't think of us unless it's an email about a visit or inquiry as to presents, etc.; always business, not a close how are you. And I don't think this will ever change bc in observing dil's FOO the only people who are being talked about w concern are the immediate family members; we are the outsiders and although ds is accepted by the FOO I hope they grow to love him.....
(This may seem trivial, not being loved/sharing w dil, nostalgia for the dream..... not gonna go into times when we feel neglected, feel treated rudely, etc....... already did that.... just saying I know the closeness won't ever develop bc dh's and my love isn't really needed; there's plenty in the dil's FOO.... how fortunate my dm was in having a dil who called her Mother and treated her as such....)
So, though you all are talking about serious grievances (and I have some of those!) I know what you mean; time will go by but it won't be dil who will change; it will have to be my expectations and thoughts........ dil doesn't have any reason to change and I have to change expectations bc of ds and gc......
Nope, not holding my breath that dil will change; just hoping for status quo to continue, I guess, bc it could be much, much worse.
Hi Shelby: I am an optimist when it comes to relationships but also know there is a time when you disengage. For starters, a bit of my history. I have struggled with my DIL since before DS married. One thing I was not taking into consideration was DIL baggage~~~I had no idea at the time how fractured her family was. Initially I admit I was thinking I would gain another daughter. That is my first mistake and I know better now.
I know where I went wrong. Going to her wedding shower...(many years ago now) FDIL was driving and it was at her aunt's house. FDIL got lost (small town). And me, joking like I would with my family said, "Oh, don't you even know where your aunt lives? HAHA. Thinking she just had pre-bride jitters or something. But there was stunned silence from FDIL. I had embarrassed her (there were others in the car). Turns out they didn't ever socialize with her aunt....(I think FDIL's DF had long since been disowned since he was drunk all the time). But, in my FOO in our tiny town the same size as FDIL's town, everyone knew where their relatives lived---we went back and forth once a week. So I burned a bridge before the vows were even recited. I was under the impression that my FOO was like everyone's FOO. Not. And my FDIL, being the daughter of a raging alcoholic, is super-sensitive to everything. Hindsight is always so revealing.
Skip through years and DIL and DS had withdrawn from me and others in my family. I couldn't even visit until babies were 6 weeks old, which hurt me deeply. Found out later that DIL suffered from PP depression...very seriously. Then little by little the problems with her family came to light. I know now my DIL was so shamed by her FOO she did not want to even be around my family. Her alliance has remained tight with her FOO, even though they have put her (and my DS) through the mill. It makes me crazy that DIL has had to deal with this since she was born---I do feel fiercely protective of her but have had to keep that in check.
I have always felt my DIL loves me and these days I understand her and respect her boundaries. There has been a lot of hurtful things she has done (don't call here anymore, etc. etc.) but I have swept that out the door, put it to rest. When my son visited last spring we were shopping for something for me for mother's day and I saw a bracelet I bought for DIL and sent it home with DS. I heard nothing back but this November DS said she had picked out my birthday gifts (bracelet, necklace, earrings). I sent a nice thank you with a note to her. So there is always hope and healing. She is a really good mom, works hard at her job, and has many health issues in addition to her very crazy family that she steadfastly stands by.
DS then asked if we could all meet to do a Christmas gathering...(a first). Keep in mind this has taken 13 years. And it also took me not responding to DIL long letters of recrimination and blame and drama. My response was, "I will not be responding to these kind of letters and will not dredge up the past." So each time that was about a two year "chill" from DS and DIL. But now they know where I stand and there is a truce. Which is why yesterday I baked a whole big bunch of goodies that I will package up and mail out (a first for ME).
Go with your heart, Shelby. You say: I no longer get hurt by her and I think it is because my heart is now closed to her.. That is how I felt for a long time, but then I asked myself how much energy it was taking to keep my heart closed and the answer was a lot. My heart is open now but I have guards around it who alert me if I am too trusting, or expecting too much. This feels healthier to me.
Sorry this is so long but it really hit the spot where I am at too....thanks for posting this, it has helped me in my process.
Hello. I haven't been on this board for quite some time, but have been doing a lot of reading. I have now closed my heart as well to DIL. I don't believe she has any interest in having any sort of relationship with us. We had a chat with our DS in Aug. to try to resolve things, but he hasn't given us any comments or thoughts on improving things at all. We were away the end of Sept., and the end of Oct. DH had a hip replaced. To our DS's credit he did pick up DH from the hospital and drove us home. But since then he barely phones to ask about his father. We saw everyone for Thanksgiving at a relative's home. DIL sat at a table with GC and one other toddler. Barely spoke to anyone, didn't even acknowledge we were in the room. I did try to speak to her, with barely a response from her.
So, I'm at my wits end now, and getting angrier by the day. So here I am venting, because if I speak to DS I'm sure I'll say something I shouldn't. So the round about way to the original post, is if DIL appears to try, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, but will be very guarded.
Why is it that it's the MILs that have to change, be careful what we say, it's like walking on eggshells all the time and very stressful. Who needs that! If my DIL suddenly decided to visit us I would have a very hard time being welcoming.
Christmas is coming up. That will be a whole other issue.
Quote from: Chrisky on December 04, 2011, 10:36:28 AM
Why is it that it's the MILs that have to change, be careful what we say, it's like walking on eggshells all the time and very stressful.
We MILs have to walk on eggshells, not the dils, (some, anyway!) bc they have nothing at all to lose if there is conflict; we have our ds and gc to lose and some of the dils know or sense this; it's an exceptionally perspective ds who can see if dil is being rude, etc., and try to resolve the issue. Most don't see it!
If MIL complains about treatment, she's being unreasonable, clingy, selfish, whatever. There are many respectful dils out there; but times have changed. Did you as a young wife ever dream of being rude or "cut off" your ILs or try to monopolize events? (Baring abusive ILs, alcoholics, etc.)
Not only were we to be respectful to others, including ILs, but our dhs would have been very reproachful of our behavior! Of course I didn't always like my ILs but never did I dream of being rude or keep the kids from seeing them......
We taught our kids to be respectful and accommodating; maybe too much so; they weren't prepared not to have a wife who wasn't the same! Never dreamed of telling ds not to be too accommodating to his wife....or told him before being engaged that his FOO was important, too.....
I just appreciate everyone's pain in this matter -- I connect with not having one big happy family. It is not supposed to go this way...but it goes. In my particular case, I am not close with my sister and her daughters. So that may be an insight into why I miss being close with DS/DIL. I hope you can understand where I am coming from, as I decided to focus more on my relationship with my DS than what is not working with DIL. That's where my heart is, after all, as I am my DS Mom. And it is through him hopefully that I will continue to be a part of his family. As long as I don't really act horribly towards his DW/DIL, you would think that reasonably he would be able to have me visit. He will be the one to build the bridge between his FOO and his family. He will be the one to guard against DIL's attempts to dismantle our connection. I only have sons, after all, and so not having any daughters had me looking forward to DILs. Now on this first and only DIL so far, I have been disappointed and working on giving up that resentment because it is what it is. I think being gracious and loving is universal in any situation -- until you know otherwise. When the situation calls for something else, I can *granny-up* and hold my own, along with DIL/DS, and respect my own feelings, hear their point of view too, and sort it all out. Sometimes DS/DIL just is not reasonable -- she has emotional problems and causes DS to have more problems as well. I have to adjust and hopefully be given credit by DS for not retaliating and making things worse for him. I have yet to feel any of our *missteps* are totally resolved, forgotten or forgiven -- but we do seem to get past them during the visit at least. Really, it is for the best, for the family, for the GC, to not pass on all this craziness, the painfulness of not being close to family, at least in my opinion, and so I work at letting my part of it go. I love them in the moment and take my leave when I am not appreciated and wanted. No hard feelings, to take my leave, and take care of myself -- seems to work for me. I know my DS well and we can keep working on the issues between us. truthfully, he has his hands full day-to-day so I do not expect much time and attention from him anymore. My DIL does not really know that DS and I have a deep bond that she will never be able to break unless DS and I agree to break it. So maybe that is a part of why I have to work with DS and not DIL. Hope this helps someone.
Chrisky - my heart goes out to you. Vent here. Probably is more constructive than to talk it out with DS or DIL.
Thank you, everyone for your posts.
Only the tail end of my post made it - somehow I accidentally deleted the most of it -- so here goes.
Quote from: Pen on December 03, 2011, 10:51:38 PM
It's sad, because this hesitancy and wariness affect our previously close, easy, fun relationship w/DS. I miss it.
Pen - I'm there with you. that's what I miss.
Quote from: Keys Girl on December 04, 2011, 07:00:13 AM
Leopards don't change their spots. My DIL is emotionally abusive, cruel and malicious to my son and her FOO. To change her personality, you would have to shoot her. I wouldn't give her 5 minutes of my time or ever open my door to her again. If she decides she wants a relationship with me it's because the other tactics that she's used to try to control me or express her hostility haven't worked and she's trying a different approach.
Keys - I love you -- but don't mince words -- what do you really think?
Your reply made me chuckle - but I know it's not really funny. Truly so sorry you are treated this way.
Quote from: Smilesback@u on December 04, 2011, 07:14:52 AM
I would reframe your feelings to not be closed hearted as just that you have made realistic expectations in order to avoid upsets.
..I don't want to waste my waking hours on something I cannot change.
My suggestion for you to rebuild a relationship in the future, is
She is family, though, my DS loves her, . . . and so we love her, she is our special needs DIL.
it is up to my DS to include us. He is not Mr Innocent here. If my expectations are low for DS, then that might be where I need to work on the problem. I should focus on building up DS relationship with me to withstand stress from DIL. I agree with pen definitely to not bring up past grudges,
It is not just all about you, that's for sure.
Smiles - Agree we have made realistic expectations to avoid upsets, and there's no point spending waking hours on things we can't change.
I'm not sure I WANT to rebuild a relationship in the future.
She is family, DS loves her, DH and I do NOT love her.
Agree it is up to DS to include us, and that we need to focus on building the DS relationships and having expectations of HIM, not her. Also agree with you and Pen not to bring up past grudges. Neither DH or I have ever criticized DIL to DS, and never will.
Yes, it is not just about me. She treats my husband, his FOO, my FOO and college friends of DS all the same way. Cutting from the herd.
Thanks, Smiles.
Quote from: Doe on December 04, 2011, 07:42:04 AM
I'm not worried about being the warm, welcoming, understanding, accepting, helpful MIL to this one anymore. I'd be comfortable being the wary MIL . . . . . I think you could not open your heart so much and still be a decent MIL.
Doe - that's where I am. I am currently the wary MIL - decent, but without the open heart. thanks for posting. As always, I value what you say.
Quote from: justanoldgrandma on December 04, 2011, 09:07:04 AM
time will go by but it won't be dil who will change; it will have to be my expectations and thoughts......
Grandma - totally agree the only thing to change is my expectations, and thanks to WWU for helping me significantly lower expectations these last couple of months.
Quote from: Begonia on December 04, 2011, 09:24:42 AM
Go with your heart, Shelby. You say: I no longer get hurt by her and I think it is because my heart is now closed to her.. That is how I felt for a long time, but then I asked myself how much energy it was taking to keep my heart closed and the answer was a lot. My heart is open now but I have guards around it who alert me if I am too trusting, or expecting too much. This feels healthier to me.
Ah, Begonia - thanks for posting. Glad you felt good enough to send all the baked goods. (Do you want my address? ;D ) Keeping my heart open with guards around it was where I was last summer. For me, walking that tightrope took MORE energy than simply closing up shop and going home. Yes, ideally I could keep heart open with guards - but it was SOOO exhausting.
hi Shelby :
Been busy lately , so only picking up your post now .
My DIL and I got on great until my GD arrived , then the barriers went up , and stayed up until I blew a gasket .
How could our relationship go from being very friendly to ice cold ?
They were just engaged when my GD was born , perhaps a friendly relationship with me was more important then .
The baby cemented their relationship and the pretence was no longer needed , and my presence
was no longer required !
I don't think she counted on my reaction , not being able to see my GD !
A lot of stress followed in . silence , arguments etc .
We eventually came to a truce . I backed off completely and said I would wait to be invited to see
my GD .
The invites came eventually and although a strained atmosphere I got to see my GD .
Then low and behold they became homeless through financial difficulties , and asked to stay with me .
My DS actually asked ...not her .
They stayed for five months, I asked for no payment for anything
Then there was the wedding , which I contributed to . Now during their stay , my DIL told my DS that
she didn't feel welcome in my home . I did nothing to make her feel this way ( I don't think so anyway )
I babysat often , gave them a whole floor of my house , and never had a cross word .
What I am getting to is , although we have been through all this , I will never feel close to my DIL .
After what she put me through , when my GD was born was cruel .
She is never warm towards me , with never a kind gesture .
We are civil towards each other , for the sake of my GD . My GD and I have bonded like
super glue , which I'm sure sticks in her throat !
If it wasn't for her I'm sure our relationship would wither and die .
As usual my DS sits on the fence and what my DIL says is gospel !
He and I are not as we were , and when she is in our presence I don't recognise him .
The past is never mentioned , but it's still very raw in our minds I'm sure .
If she had stayed the same girl as my DS introduced us to six years ago , we would now
be best friends , now ? Not gonna happen !
And you know what , she still never thanked me for taking them in , that would have meant a lot .
LL, your dil is truly ungrateful. I'm not surprised from your posts that she didn't thank you; unbelievable otherwise.
I'm glad at least that you and your gs have bonded; I'm sure she is jealous, but keep that bond; it's so precious! I bet your son is already wondering what he is in for, seeing her faults, but too proud and henpecked to admit it.
It's funny that you mentioned your ds's old gf; as my post was nostalgic for my ds's ex that I was so close to! But of course it wasn't my decision and I'm so glad I stayed out of their breakup which I had seen coming and dreaded and also that I didn't say anything and still don't about my dil. Oh, if we could pick our own dils! (it might not be so good tho and we'd be to blame!)
I'm glad you have a strong spirit and can live well through this marriage and have your gs as a consolation prize; I'm sure he is very loved by you!
I am willing to give it the old college try with DIL, even though she has been totally cold, said hateful things, will not allow us at her house, and has never in 5 years thanked me for 1 thing. I got a chance for 36 hours a week ago. I thought I did a good job. DIL's attitude when she left told me otherwise. I see DS slipping away, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.
Oh, Am -- my heart aches for you. I KNOW you did a good job. I am so sorry it didn't work out as you (and everyone on WWU) had hoped. I understand about DS slipping away - we feel that too. But I think we can all hope that both your DS and mine find their way back to us. In their own good time. Wish I could give you a big hug.
Am, I am sorry too for your pain. YOu might not believe or want to hear that there may be something that can get worked out. We don't know these things. I liked how someone has reported on WWU that by letting go, they found that DS started taking steps to get closer. I never know either how I am doing from their eyes -- DS/DIL. Sad, but true. So I find myself asking if after our visit if we all had a good time...knowing it depends on DILs take on it. I am sure YOU did have a wonderful time and enjoyed it. It makes no sense why it has to be this way. It is not in your control. Hopefully, you will know in your heart and find some comfort. Don't put yourself out - if it happens it happens, if not, you have tried and hold your head up high and comfort your heart. sending you love and acceptance
Shelby - I'm going to answer your question even though I'm a DIL, because I believe we're all dealing with the same sort of people.
I'm still on the fence with my MIL. I believe that I'm responsible for 50% of our relationship, and I'm working on making my 50% better. If she were to put in a bit of effort, I'm sure we would have a better relationship. Sadly, that hasn't happened yet. The reasoning I'm using is that I'm putting myself out there, not because she is a nice person, but because *I* am. It's in my nature to be 'nice'. I still think of calling MIL to tell her DD's achievements and I still suggest nice gifts for her. However, I don't act on those thoughts anymore. I've stepped back and I'm letting DH lead in the relationship with his P's.
Like Luise said, I think my MIL would have to become a completely different person in order for us to have a GOOD relationship. Since that's not going to happen, I'm not holding my breath. BUT I am still working on my 50%!
My answer is I would treat her like I would anyone that had treated me badly and then wanted a second chance. I would give it to her. It would take time to rebuild the trust, to see if she truly was trying and to see if it was genuine. I know I have changed alot over the years. I'm not as hotheaded, I don't sweat the small stuff as bad as I used to, I have made many mistakes (hopefully learned from them) and I have matured in many ways of my thinking. I have learned that the important things in life are the ones that are free. Love, kindness, respect, dignity, self-love and laughter. I would do this for a coworker that had treated me badly, but was trying to mend that relationship. It would take time, but I would give them the chance. Once.
I just ran into this at Thanksgiving. I was met, after almost two years of not seeing them, by a DIL that was genuinely trying to engage in conversations, was friendly and seemed like she was trying. It didn't seem fake, IMO, so I went with the flow and we had a good time. Time will tell but if I'm not willing to give her another chance, then I haven't grown at all and all my posts and comments here have been in vain. The entire time I have been here, I have written about how I felt like I was always the one trying and giving in, and how it takes two people trying to make a relationship. I have learned to accept that my relationship with DIL and DS is not what I would have liked. I have learned to accept that and move on. Part of my moving on is to let the past, be the past and accept the things that I can not change. I can not change them, but I can allow her to.
I am under the thinking that a leopard can change their spots. It may not happen often, but I have seen it. So I will give her a chance and accept that people can change if they want to.
I was willing Pooh, and thought that by taking my family in , it would show how willing I was. After being here a few months my DIL made up stories we were talking about her and didn't want her here. So where do I go from here I ask myself ?
Pooh - as always, a thoughtful post full of wisdom. I am currently somewhere between you and Keys - I flip between
1. knowing that leopards don't change their spots, and that I had better not have any expectations or I'll only continue to be hurt, and
2. feeling as you do that people do deserve second chances.
What is hard for me is that I feel that DH and I have already given her 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th chances - only to have her disregard what we consider to be basic common courtesy. We have NEVER criticized her, either to DS or to her face. Have done many favors when requested - and have never told them how to live their lives. We truly don't know WHY she would be so chilly (and yes, WW, I know it doesn't matter WHY - it just IS. ) The only thing we have done that is wrong was that gift drop-off on the Christmas they totally ignored us. In hindsight, yes that was passive-aggressive (I was MAD. I was FURIOUS.) But the snubs preceded that for several years. And have continued.
I should strive to be a better person (like you, Pooh :) ) - but I frankly am not too motivated. Of course, my DIL has not yet exhibited true efforts at having a relationship. So this is all theoretical at this point.
I could happily consider her a leopard with immutable spots - the sadness there is my eventual loss of my son. So if she ever tries, I will have to channel you, Pooh - as I'd do anything to stay on good terms with DS. Thank you, pooh, and much love.
Dear, dear Lancaster - I don't know where you go from here. Wish I had the answers for you. Only support and best wishes. And love
LL and Shelby, you have both given your second or more chances. That's different. I consider my first two years of turmoil with her as one long chance...lol. I will be guarded and in no way have any expectations, like I did the first time. If she reverts back, then that will be the end of it. I will not give a third chance and then she becomes like a weird 3rd cousin that I will avoid at family get togethers, but be civil to!
Giving chances time and time again, is one thing, and for me, realizing someone has mental problems, well that is another. I have a DIL with acknowledged mental/emotional problems who is getting help now. Maybe you have a family member with unidentified mental problems too? How would that change your outlook knowing there was a mental health diagnosis to deal with for them? I am totally more compassionate, although I still have my feelings that do get hurt over, the little stuff. I realize there just is alot of unreasonableness and chaos in their lives...and it is up to me to determine how much I choose to participate in all of that. How much does it take to stay connected? I am trying and so far they are not cutting me off. It is certainly not a 50-50 situation here. I expect a lot more from myself and DH, anyways cuz we have our health, so maybe we give 70% and they do 30%. They might feel they give a lot more, but from my point of view, I feel I am doing more than my share. Anways, I have to try to remember that our sick person gets a pass because of the illness. When I cannot let that go, and I have needs of my own to meet, it is time to take my leave of them, and for me to go get busy elsewhere. I cannot make this all better for them, I am not the answer, I am not the cause, but I certainly can contribute to all of it. Anyone familiar with that serenity group knows what I am talking about here. There is only so much I can do. I really care, and their feelings do matter to me, and that will not ever change. It just cannot be mutual in my case, I am going to have to try and try again and again. Sometimes my efforts will be accepted, and sometimes not. Hopefully they get that I don't have to be perfect. That is part of the emotional/psychological problems we all deal with to some degree, just some people have more of that to deal with. I don't think it is contagious as long as I remind myself of the principles above personalities. Sorry, but I really am working on it from a more spiritual point of view because I don't have anything else to offer. It is what it is ...
Shelby, maybe part your dilemma is that this is a big What If question and you are missing valuable information that would help you decide what to do. You're missing the elements that would surround her change of attitude.
I run through these What If scenarios, too, though mine are a little more melodramatic. For me, they can get to be a little crazy making.
My advice is just to ride with the flow for the present and just assume it's going to be this way till you see something else coming from her.
Smiles - you're a saint. hats off to you.
Doe - thanks for your thoughts - I agree - i am missing the factual elements - and until they occur, this is all just theoretical. I'm sure I give the relationship much more room in my head than either DS or DIL do. So I'll just "go with the flow" until something happens. Thanks. Good advice.
Hi Shelby,
The reason I am a member of this forum is because I had a problem with FDIL and her family.
This has all been buried and she and her family have made every effort to restore the peace.
They live in the UK.I am in South Africa
All my sons were here for my one sons wedding in October.
This DIL made an effort to sit and talk to me when I was alone in the kitchen but I felt a weariness.
I find it difficult to relax in her presence.
To a certain extent I have the same feeling about her and her family.I couldn't care less.I dont really want a close relationship with them. Probably I still see a red flag.
I have nothing against the relationship of my son and FDIL as I think thet are suited.
I think it is just that I want to be left in peace to carry on with my own life and dont want to be dragged in family arguments.
My name says it all I have too much "Catchingup" to do---No time to waste on pettiness.
8)
::) 8) 8) ::)
What I recently found very hurtful was , after they left I was told to throw anything left behind away .
I looked through the bin bags to make sure nothing of value was there and found the keepsake limited edition
Royal Doulton china baby's first Christmas tree bauble I had ordered for my GD's first Christmas , also a silver
first baby bangle engraved to my GD from me !
This just proves there is no love lost between us on her behalf and her friendly ''charming'' behaviour
is just a sham !
Will I mention these things ? I think not , I will keep them for my GD when she is older , she might like to keep them
as a keepsake from her GM .
Sorry I looked through them now , but my DH thought a good idea to check , perhaps they were there by mistake ?
It was a bag for the trash , full of trash !!
Dear Lancaster - That's a horrible slap you were given. While I am sorry you were hurt by their mean behavior, I'm glad the keepsake Royal Doulton and silver baby items did not actually go into the trash. I think you were wise to save them for when your GD is old enough to appreciate them. You don't deserve this - wish I could make it stop hurting for you.
Ummm....one in the trash...maybe a mistake and accident. Both in the trash....the skeptic in me is saying that your instincts are right on and it was done on purpose. Good for DH to think to check. I think it's definately worth just keeping and hanging onto them for GD and not giving them back. Yeah, that was chance #947. She has been voted off the island!
Well Pooh , if there were no GK , you can imagine that would be the case . However , you know the saying '' Keep your
friends close , and your enemies closer '' , I think that applies here . I think she would love for me to kick off
and that would give her so much pleasure to give me my marching orders . Oh no , I am one big thorn firmly
implanted ..........ouch !
I am no saint. I relate totally -- it is just how do you plan to stop suffering? Pain hurts alot and you get over it with care; suffering lasts and lasts and that is harder to get over. To hurt is human, to suffer is an ongoing choice. Example, I gave my first GD at her first Christmas, cute, one-of-a kind, boxed baby elephant with "a small blanket attached" that you keep as you get older like Linus --if you know what I mean? The next day, I saw DIL had given the gift to her niece, a 7 year old niece-- I kept my mouth shut as I could not believe it, really? I watched to see what would happen. I mean, really, regifting a baby gift before the baby even knows it was from Nana? Pretty low. Jump ahead several years, I see the second GD now has the same said baby elephant in her crib. I say to DIL on past summer visit, that I gave that to the first GD. DIL had a chance then and there to clean up her mess. She chose not to...why? I don't know. She said No, her niece gave it to her. WHAT??? Crazy-making stuff...I did not let go and said No, I don't think so and I walked away and let it go. Just sticks in your throat - you know? Not the only bad memory I have with DIL -- other incidents of books, stuffed animals etc being attributed from someone else gifting than me, certainly this has taught me well. On my visit this THG time, I wrote in the books we gave GD *From Nana and Papa 2011*. As far as I am concerned, I handled the matter appropriately. As far as your experience of someone throwing away something so special from you (it is the thought after all that counts), and rubbing your nose in it -- to throw it away yourself - despicable! Just despicable! To end my own suffering - now, what I do, I bring my treasures to give to GD only to share on our visit, as I do not want it torn, ripped, *lost* thrown away, mistreated, attributed from someone else, all of that. I take photos of us with them receiving them, enjoying them with us -- then I take the gifts home with me for safe keeping until they are old enough to know better -- and I will bring them out again before then, when and if they visit or when I visit. Photo books work really well -- says more than a thousand words. I had felt so bad about not seeing any photos on FB of our visits, of our family that I made a photo book, of our visit. I included DS side of the family with names, and read them to the GD on this last visit. I asked DS, DIL and other son to read the book to GD. DS and DIL did not get through the book but know it exists. Other son did read with GD -- and he gets it! We showed up as GP to love the GD, we visited and paid our way, we had a good time with GD -- and the photos do not lie. So no, I am not a saint, I am a sinner, working on getting into heaven as well as not living in hell. Sometimes it just seems like hell, doesn't it? Hope there are some ideas here that help. You just can't let it drive you crazy -- which it was making me miserable...I was crying and carrying on with DH. Enough already -- I just had to say, I hope you find a way to feel better too.
thankyou Smiles ,
You know what gets me through ? My GD loves me to bits ! when we are together she never leaves my side , if she loses
sight of me she shouts me at the top of her voice , that makes my heart sing .
So no matter what my DIL pulls outta the bag , we are cemented forever .
So I will be forever grateful to those 5 months they lived with me , otherwise we might have grown apart .
You mentioned gifts that were recycled from your GD .
I have never seen half the gifts I bought my GD when she was born , I only hope they went
to a good cause and not the trash bin !
Of course , the wedding photos ....there were 3000 shots taken at the wedding ....I was in 5 of them !
Go figure !
I am always amazed when we MIL's get all the blame , and why our DIL's want to hurt us .
What have we done to be treated so badly ?
I'm shaking my head , as I'll never understand :-\
(((Lancaster Lady))) You handled that classy as always.
I don't think all MILs are to blame, I agree with Scoop up above....we are all dealing with the same type of people. Imagine your DIL as a MIL someday -- she'll probably be just the same person as she always is. It's not the label, it's the person.
As for the original question, sometimes it crosses my mind...especially when I'm not actively trying to repair the relationship lol. Usually I say I'm done then spring back up like the energizer bunny to go get some more. But now after the latest episode, I'm not sure. I'll probably handle it when and if it ever comes up and how I'm feeling at the moment and the circumstances surrounding it. Right now we put out the offer to go to therapy with MIL to clear stuff up, she has so far refused but doesn't know our decision to move yet. I think once she finds out we are moving she'll then want to do the therapy just to delay our moving not to fix or repair anything.
That's been my experience with her anyway, her motivations have not been to reconcile, they've been to control. So, yeah, it would depend on a lot of factors.