We're spending Christmas at my IL's house this year and I'm dreading it SO much!
I'm finding that I'm still bitter about the fact that she didn't get me a birthday gift. I know it's petty. But I asked SIL and she said that MIL always gets her and BIL something, and I'm sure DH is going to get something HUGE for his birthday (he's the Golden Child).
I know that I've been preaching to be nice because YOU'RE nice, not because they deserve it. BUT man! I feel like I'm letting her 'get away' with treating me poorly.
So I'm wavering between:
- sending them a Christmas card and pictures of DD (like I do with everyone else) but then feeling like I'm rewarding MIL's bad behaviour. Usually I let DH write out the card to his parents, but he never does it and feels that it's okay to just bring it with us when we visit.
- refusing to send them a card (but, of course, DH is still welcome to) and feeling partly glad that I'm "showing HER" and partly guilty because I don't want to be that person.
This is really bugging me. But I realize that it's not MIL that I want to change. It's DH. I want him to acknowledge that it was wrong. (When I pointed out that the IL's didn't get me anything for my milestone birthday - not even the next time we saw them months later, and he said "Sure they did." but couldn't detail exactly what it was.) I want him to say "Oh, I can't accept this gift because you didn't do anything for Scoop's birthday" - like THAT would ever happen.
I don't know. I just needed to vent some of these emotions because it's really been bugging me.
Scoop-
Gifts are really symbols of emotions, aren't they? You and the ILs don't like each other, right? So logically (not emotionally), why exchange gifts?
FWIW, my FOO never gave BD presents or Xmas presents to the in-laws. They gave us gifts that our spouses greatly benefitted from. My plan was to continue giving DS a sizable gift and DIL a much smaller version of that (till they cut me off, anyway).
I say let DH handle the card and gifts to his parents. You do less and then maybe it'll help you not expect anything in return.
And here's where I remind you of the WWU chorus: Drop your expectations of them! We all know how frustrating it is but give it up. It sounds like she's not nice and she doesn't deserve the gift of your attention!
Scoop, I think you've been very classy and gracious throughout the time I've read here in dealing with you're in laws. I know how you're feeling b/c I feel similar. I think you've got to do what you feel is right.
And, IMO, you're on the right track. It's really DH, it's hard to know that he is not validating you or appreciating the effort you're putting forth towards people who are unkind to you. You're a very articulate writer, perhaps putting it down on paper and giving to him to explain your feelings and the events that have happened? My DH doesn't "hear" quite the same way he reads, maybe your DH is similar?
Scoop just a question, do you and your husband give individual birthday gifts to your IL's? Maybe they just don't give b'day gifts to in- laws. If that 's the case let him handle birthday gifts to his parents and just accept that's the way they do things, that frees you from having to worry about their birthdays. I get birthday gifts I know come from DS, but I have gotten birthday gifts for DIL for the past three years, no acknowledgment or a thank you from her though. I get the feeling the gifts either make her uncomfortable, or she just expects them. Either way I'm done. iMHO you need to give them the relationship they clearly want, and save your energy, that's the way I'm going.
Trying, we do give a Birthday gift each to MIL & FIL. We only do "joint" gifts to them at Christmas, if it's something of a greater value, that is for both of their use.
I agree that it's expectations, because my Mom is painfully fair. She spends the same on her kids as her SIL/DIL, at birthdays and at Christmas. My Mom's fairness is legendary! My friends still laugh at the idea that when my Mom buys Christmas ornaments, she makes sure to get 2 similar ones, so that when she dies, we won't fight when we divide everything up.
With my IL's, the birthday gifts have been hit-or-miss. Sometimes they're good, sometimes they're just okay, but this is the 2nd time in 14 years that I've been missed completely. I even asked SIL if she and BIL got birthday gifts from the IL's, thinking perhaps the IL's had scaled back but not told us. But no, she said that they always get 'something'.
The first time they skipped my birthday, they actually sent a card, so I would know that they remembered my birthday, they just didn't get anything for me. This year too, they sent a text to DH's phone to wish me a Happy Birthday. The first time they skipped my birthday was pretty traumatizing to me, because that year I had personally picked out their gifts and went to a bit of trouble to do it too. That was the last time I had anything to do with their gifts, I've already left ALL of that (except the budget) up to DH. Even then, I sometimes can't help myself and will suggest things to him, because MIL is hard to buy for.
You know what's troubling me? I know that GMIL will receive her card and call MIL to talk about the pictures of DD, however MIL won't have received a card. MIL may even see the pictures on SIL's fridge. This will hurt her feelings. And I'm such a sucker that I feel bad about that. Maybe it's because I know that *I* will get blamed for it. But on the other hand, I've always left the card up to DH, maybe *this* is his way of "punishing" them? It's too many head-games for me!
I'm still wondering - you don't like her, right? Does she like you?
If not, why give gifts?
Scoop - you seem to be experiencing the flip side of what a lot of MILs here go through. I think the issue is not MIL or DIL, but a one-way relationship. Doesn't matter if the MIL is welcoming and the DIL is disinterested, or the DIL is eager to bond and the MIL doesn't give a rat's rear end. Same difference. We are talking about one-way relationships. They don't work. And the person that WANTS to make it work CAN'T - because the other person won't participate. And that is hard for us to accept. Because we think if we try, it will work. If it doesn't work, we must have done something wrong - so we analyze our actions and try again and it still doesn't work.
I haven't read your whole history, but is it possible that you or your DH could talk to his mother and find out what the issue is? If it is a simple misunderstanding of fact, then perhaps a relationship is possible. If there is no factual misunderstanding, you may simply have to accept her lack of interest, as many of us on this board have accepted lack of interest from our DILs. Some lovely women such as Pen and Amflautist have had to accept far worse than simple lack of interest. They have to deal with blatant hostility. (May I shoot those DILs, please?)
If neither you nor DH can have a heart-to-heart with your MIL - then you have to do what we all do. Detach. Let it go. Concentrate on your own FOO, your friends, volunteer work, etc.
I have learned a lot on this board - probably more from the women I disagree with than the women who think like me. When my darling MIL died, and my DIL ignored the loss to my FIL and DH, you yourself advised me --
"When GMIL passes, I will encourage DH to go for the funeral and DD and I will go, if it's not too inconvenient. But, I won't send flowers, nor make a donation, nor will I get a card or sign it. It's none of my business. If DH wants any of that done, he's welcome and I certainly won't stop him or hinder him"
Your perspective helped me realize I was imposing (mentally) my standards on DIL - that what I consider common courtesy is simply MY opinion and expectation - and not shared by others - certainly not by her. So I had to let it go. I think you may have to take your own advice, and just let it all go.
I know this is harder to do than it sounds but/and when I have been able to do it, it's worked for me. It's taking the high road...doing what you wish she would do. Treating her the way you would naturally treat her if she was the person you wish she was. Not out of the one-up/look-down space...just as an expression of who you are when you are not reacting...and because it feels good. When I can pull that off...all of my inner dialogue about being wronged and being right fades away and I am free just to be. Sending love...
Doe - it's true, we don't like each other. But I don't understand your logic. *I* don't get MIL a gift. *We* get MIL a gift. So if there's no reciprocity, MIL should get no gift from us? Should there have been a separate gift from *me* for all of these years? If so, then MAN, I've been screwing up for years now.
Shelby - you're right, I have to let it go.
Luise - ugh, you're right too, I have to suck it up and do the right thing. I guess I'm sending the IL's a card tonight.
I have to remember that you can't get blood from a stone. My Mom always tells me that my MIL doesn't have it *IN* her to be fair / considerate / nice, so I can't expect it from her. And then I have to remember that she wasn't a good mom and she's not a good grandma, so how can I expect her to be a good MIL?
Okay - thanks so much guys. I knew that if I typed it out and got it out, I would feel better about it.
Quote from: Scoop on December 12, 2011, 06:21:07 AM
I'm finding that I'm still bitter about the fact that she didn't get me a birthday gift. I know it's petty.
. . .
But I realize that it's not MIL that I want to change. It's DH. I want him to acknowledge that it was wrong.
Scoop - another belated thought --
I don't think it's about the gift at all. You probably don't give a rat's rear end about the gift itself. It's the acknowledgment and validation (or lack thereof) that is the issue. So I do NOT think it is petty. It's human. We all want the validation from our loved ones - and FOR our loved ones from other family members. When it doesn't happen, we are hurt - until we learn to lower our expectations. I am one to give many chances - to think that maybe I was too sensitive if I perceived a slight. So I give more chances - but finally we have to say - that's how the other person is, and I will not invest more of my emotion in that person. Easier said than done.
I'm still working on it. I can say the words, but actually having no reaction, no hurt feelings is something I'm still working on - but I'm getting lots of practice, since DIL has been quite callous in 2011.
Oh, I just don't get people gifts that I have animosity for. That's what I was trying to understand. I would have just let DH handle it all those years (or not if he didn't want to). I didn't understand why 2 people who don't like each other would be swapping gifts.
I mean I don't get people who I have animosity for gifts. I don't gift them..
You know Doe, I'm hip to that.
But MIL *will* give me a Christmas gift, because she'll have an audience and if we visit for Christmas and she gave DH, DD, SIL, BIL and the DN's gifts and didn't give any to me, then SHE would look bad. And she will avoid looking bad at any cost. And really, that would be aggressive-aggressive and not passive-aggressive, and that's just not her style.
And your right, it's the consideration, not the gift.
Oh, I get it.
Then, I would send her the generic Christmas card/pictures that everyone is getting - as a gesture. She didn't win, you've won by being a nicer person (taking that high road that Luise mentioned).
Then push a Harry and David catalog under DH's nose and tell him to order something for her. Then brag about him at the gift exchange - about how he chose the gift specially for her. Then it's Harry and David for the rest of her life.
Scoop, a dear friend gave me some advice regarding gifts for my DIL & SM. She suggested buying something obviously inexpensive, but not blatantly cheap, if that makes sense. The recipient will know what the gift is implying, but if she complains she looks like a greedy meany. You will get your point across, but won't look bad to everyone else (oh yeah, don't tell DH your scheme! He will see his mom receive what looks to him like a perfectly generous gift.) Continue to smile, enjoying everyone else's company, be gracious and oh so sweet - but don't engage with MIL other than brief, generic polite-talk...no one will be able to say that you treated MIL less than charitably, but MIL will get it.
I did this with SM & DIL, and it worked - at least I felt better! It's kind of an amusing little secret I carry around with me when I am forced to socialize with them; keeps me going when the going gets tough.
I'm with Doe on this one: I think we all need to just stop buying gifts when we resent doing so or scheme about it or try to figure out how to "get by" with this or that. And I have been on the receiving end of gifts that were RE-gifted a few times. UGH, that is horrible. One thing that is thoughtful is a poinsettia plant...how can you go wrong with that? Or a big bag of pistachios--who doesn't like those? Or some of those lovely rosettes from the bakery in a beautiful box with ribbon? Or assorted cheeses...at least these things are not on sale or close out and are not RE-gifted.
So this year I sent a family gift card to DS, DD and D sister to a big box "hardware" store with the "suggestion" they buy Christmas lawn ornaments/lights that will last over the years. But next year I am only sending a goodie box, no gift cards at all. And I have more "stuff" than I want, as do most of my friends I talk to. Nothing is worse during the holiday than to unwrap something that has been around the block a few times....you know nobody wants it, why give it to me? My sister, love her to pieces, is a last minute shopper so she just grabs S---tuff that makes little or no sense. But when we are together she buys me lovely things...like a coffee cup at the coffee shop, or a sweatshirt at a place we are staying...she is a gift all year long. But Christmas, not so much... ::)
I think when you're single it's easier to just not gift to those who do not gift you or whom you don't like. It's another thing entirely when they gift your children, IMO, an example has to be set. If you're not willing to gift, then the gifts shouldn't be accepted either IMHO.
It's also not something I think a wife can unilaterally decide, her husband has to be on board too. Rock and a hard place. My suggestion is just to leave it in DHs lap entirely, he can make sure the kids write the thank you notes, send out gifts on his family behalf etc.
Quote from: tryingmybest on December 12, 2011, 08:25:36 AM
Maybe they just don't give b'day gifts to in- laws.
Not to hijack this post, but are there families that do this? Is that acceptable to treat in-laws as different from blood relatives? I'm a little sensitive because I heard my MIL say to my DH once that "...from a non-blood member" referring to me. Sorry once again for hijacking a bit.
No I don't think it's acceptable. Then again, I don't stew over people not getting me birthday presents either. I don't miss what I don't get. I'm not entitled to get gifts b/c it is my birthday or Christmas or any other day. If someone gets me something heartfelt, it's appreciated.
I think "sending messages" with gifts where everyone else is in the room is clueless is the definition of passive aggressive. I'm glad you felt better, but as someone who just received a packet of holiday napkins from my MIL's big trip overseas with this long disgusting letter about how she thought of me when she bought them. she saw the "value" in them and thought of me, and frankly, it's hurtful. It doesn't make me want to be around her for the holiday this year. If that is the thought, I'd rather not get thought of at all. I know my MIL isn't two-bit cheap considering the beautiful gifts purchased for my DH and child. So, her intent was to make me feel as if she could have cared less and just picked up the first thing she saw at a grocery store, that could be picked up at any Wal-Mart here.
Nope, I can't say anything b/c you're right, I would "appear" greedy meany, when it isn't about greed at all. So, I get to manage these feelings that make me feel petty and ridiculous...after reading your post, maybe that was her intent all along....but she would have done a lot better to just passed on the "gift" altogether. It's little wonder why I'm not jumping for joy when it comes time to vist them. MIL isn't exactly paving the way to make my stay enjoyable. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Scoop, send the card. Doing things out of spite doesn't give you a one-up, and chances are, MIL won't see it that way. You'll just be giving her the satisfaction and validation as to why she doens't do the things she should be. Be the better person. MIL can get me a truckload of napkins for all I care, I still searched high and low for her gift this year and I am hopeful for it to be here before our trip down there. I think a message of "I don't care what you got me, I am still going to treat you as a I treat everyone else, because I care about people" is a lot better than gifts that send a message that is belitting of the receiver.
Scoop, I would do whatever you do with everyone else, send the card......and a goat. I hear that some people are getting together to buy a goat for a village somewhere in Africa that doesn't have milk. Name the goat after her....sounds like there might be more than a passing resemblance to her personality...........as for the birthday gift, I would go out and buy myself something lovely every time she doesn't give you a gift or something crummy for your birthday. Look forward to every year that she doesn't give you anything because.............you have all year to pick out and look forward what you are going to buy for yourself because of that. Make sure it's expensive.
If you don't send her a card or anything then that sends hostility back to the receiver and more importantly tells the receiver that her message of malice is being understood, has hit the mark and she will secretly enjoy that. Deprive her of that enjoyment and the glint in her eye that says "I made Scoop angry, I have the power to keep doing it".
Don't give her the power to make you stew, she will dance a jig behind your back.
Exactly, KG!
Sometimes I think along those lines too, what can I give her back or do so she understands but then I realize she is *waiting* for me to do something like that. Any time we have talked to clear the air about our relationship she has *nothing* on me because I haven't done anything to her.
To be honest though, it has nothing to do with her -- it makes me feel good knowing that I have not stooped to her level.
How I wish my MIL would not give me gifts. She seems to use them as a way to make me feel like I owe it to her to listen to her insults and criticisms. I know she'll call me on my birthday tomorrow and I am dreading it, sad I know, but her birthday wishes will be peppered with backhanded comments and guilt trips. I love the idea of not exchanging gifts between people who do not like each other. It's like a way of saying "I know, and you know, but we will be cordial and polite to one another for the children." Then at least you don't owe each other anything and you are acting honestly and not passive-aggressively or fake, which only causes hurt on both ends.
What I have decided to do is to make sure I tell her I don't want anything for myself, and politely say "thank you" once, when she brings me something anyway. I graciously accept things for my children, no reason to drag them into the picture. When it comes to giving her gifts, I make sure to make it from the kids. I don't like her, but there is no reason why my DS can't send her a fingerpainting. As for a card, I always include her in anything that involves the kids or photos of them. Again, my relationship with her has nothing to do with them.
I feel pretty good about that strategy.
Sounds like a perfect strategy to me, Phillek.
I gift because I want to and yes, I gift some people because I think it's the right thing to do. It's not about them, it's about how I feel about things. It's my ethics and morals that come into play, not theirs. I don't control theirs, only mine. I bought DIL a Christmas gift, not because I like her, not because I wanted to...but because it was the right thing to do according to what I believe. What I believe. Not her, not anyone else. I don't expect anything in return from people because that is what they choose to do. I send flowers to funerals, I will not wear pants in Church or at weddings, I can't pass a Salvation Army bell ringer without dropping change in and I go in with the other staff members for a gift for the big-boss. Not because I want to.... ;D
Bottom line Scoop...it's about you and the person you are. Was it hurtful of MIL to do what she did to you? Yes. But it wasn't about you, it was about the person she is. All you can do is be you and go with your beliefs. You are a giving, caring person. Don't let her take that from you. There is no better revenge than living life well and happy.
One more thing. DH's family draws names among the adults for Christmas gifts and of course I drew MIL. I made her a calendar featuring photos of DS. I'm sure she will love it and it has nothing at all to do with my feelings for her or her actions toward me. By making it about her and DS, it totally takes my emotions out of it.
Keys Girl - I totally see that. But I can also see the other side. Where she gloats that she can treat me however she wants and I still come back for more. And THAT one bugs me.
It's true though, it was bugging me that no card had been sent, so I signed the card, added the pictures and it's in the mail this morning. The way I'm going to look at it is that it's the least amount of effort I can put into it, it makes me feel better and it removes future blame.
I just wish DH would acknowledge that *I* am putting in some effort here. AND saving his hide from having to hear about why she hasn't received a card yet.
As for the IL's gifts, it's 12 days until Christmas and I don't know that DH has picked anything up yet. I can't see him getting them a goat, but you never know. Actually, that's not true, we have a "Grandma" picture frame (that my Mom suggested for her) and a small game. Not what we usually spend, but that may be IT for MIL.
For those of you who don't enjoy the gift exchange among adults, it's this the perfect time to change things? You can blame the economy - let everyone know that you'd like to cut back with no hard feelings. Maybe let Christmas be for the children, or put some dollar amount on it.
And Quietstorm - my FOO didn't give gifts to the in-laws but I have to be honest - we had a parade of characters come through the family! The way my parents handled giving was to drop all birthday and Christmas gifts and if they wanted to give us gifts, it would happen randomly through out the year. No expectations, no disappointments around the holidays. They sent money to the GKs and that was that.
Doe, that's my modus operandi. I find people love it. No obligations or expectations, just a nice thought, and it prevents others from sizing up what they got or didn't.
Yup - and none of that holiday angst! More attention for all the other aspects of the season. :)
Phillek: you say: I made her a calendar featuring photos of DS. Now, that is from the heart. That is the right spirit as far as I'm concerned.
Scoop: I like that you sent the card. But until you quit "saving your DH hide" he has a good thing going. I hold my DS completely responsible if I get cards or presents and his DW does too.
Personally, the goat thing I find really nasty. I would cry for days if someone slighted me like that. Or gave me one of those heifer cows to support something. Nah. Let me choose my own non profits. Now I guess I feel happy that I don't get presents rather than think someone would think of me that way. It would never occur to me to do something like that.
Quote from: Scoop on December 13, 2011, 06:26:47 AM
Where she gloats that she can treat me however she wants and I still come back for more. And THAT one bugs me.
As for the IL's gifts, it's 12 days until Christmas and I don't know that DH has picked anything up yet. I can't see him getting them a goat, but you never know. Actually, that's not true, we have a "Grandma" picture frame (that my Mom suggested for her) and a small game. Not what we usually spend, but that may be IT for MIL.
Scoop, it sounds like you are just as angry at yourself as you are with her and your husband. It's not an easy place to be. I would delegate everything to your husband......they are HIS parents.......but it sounds as if he's leaving you to catch the flak that he's probably caught all his life.
The only thing that I can tell you is that my experience with these people is that they are some of the most miserably unhappy people on the planet and only happy when they can pull other people into their orbit. The only solution that I have found over the years is to get away from them and put as much distance between them and me. I would suggest that you stop trying so hard........slowly and subtly fill up the calendar with engagements with people who bring joy and laughter into your life.
You're right Keys Girl, I am angry at myself. I don't like playing these games. I don't want to leave it all up to DH. But it's like Shelby (?) said, it's just like a MIL who wants a good relationship with her DIL but the DIL doesn't want it. There's nothing I can do about it. So I have to let it go.
I sent the card. I added photos. I'm going to go there at Christmas and smile and have the best time I can. My lovely dear SIL will be there, with her lovely dear family - so that is one bright spot. Also, DD is so excited about Christmas this year it's not even funny. Wait, it's actually HILARIOUS. She wants me to tell her what we got her, she promises she'll forget! And she asked for the expensive things from Santa, because the stuff from Santa is FREE! She Believes SO HARD this year.
Ooh - we'll bring wine! That always helps! Or Amaretto & eggnog - YUMMY!
QuoteScoop, a dear friend gave me some advice regarding gifts for my DIL & SM. She suggested buying something obviously inexpensive, but not blatantly cheap, if that makes sense. The recipient will know what the gift is implying, but if she complains she looks like a greedy meany. You will get your point across, but won't look bad to everyone else (oh yeah, don't tell DH your scheme! He will see his mom receive what looks to him like a perfectly generous gift.) Continue to smile, enjoying everyone else's company, be gracious and oh so sweet - but don't engage with MIL other than brief, generic polite-talk...no one will be able to say that you treated MIL less than charitably, but MIL will get it.
I did this with SM & DIL, and it worked - at least I felt better! It's kind of an amusing little secret I carry around with me when I am forced to socialize with them; keeps me going when the going gets tough.
:( I would prefer no item to one that not-so-secretly implies I am less-than. To me, that is not a gift at all.
Scoop, the high road does have its rewards! It might not be the reward we expect or should get, but it's there. Kudos to you for sending the card. I, too, will be smiling away at our holiday events.
Sassy, that is exactly what I was trying to say, although I was rather gruff about it. I'm sorry for that.
This thread has me rethinking DIL's Christmas gift this year. I was all set to leave her off any list - since
1. she never acknowledged Christmas last year - either towards us or by thanking us for her gift, and
2. she felt quite comfortable ignoring GFIL's near death illness and GMIL's actual death.
DH, who is not prone to drama (which is one reason I hash and re-hash here rather than drive him nuts) - was quite hurt that his parents' travails (doesn't death qualify as a travail?) would seem so trivial to DIL as to not even receive an honorable mention. Oh, well. So he is opposed to any gifting to her. Not indifferent. Firmly opposed.
I, being the pleaser and always wanting to be the MIL who never criticizes, am conflicted. DIL was quite callous this year - so if ever there was a time to break with the gifting, that time is now. (after all, we can't count on so many major events in future years to serve as a backdrop for her self-centeredness to be on display). So I was all set to drop any pretense of gifting with DIL this year.
Now this thread makes me doubt myself. Pooh with her gosh-darn instinct to take the high road makes me think I should try to do the same. Gosh darn that Pooh. I wish I didn't respect her opinion so much. It would be easier to ignore that way. ;)
Truth be told, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Key's goat suggestion. Thank you Keys. I definitely love you. :-*
DH is taking the boys on a stag ski trip for a few days before Christmas. They have been told that is their gift - and they are all fine with that. Thrilled, actually. Daughters have already received their gifts - in terms of $$ contributions towards major purchases in their lives. (I prefer to get them an experience they really want, or help with a major purchase they want, rather than try to pick out clothing or electronics that will not be to their liking). So there will not be tangible items under the tree for anyone -
I was fine with skipping DIL this year. Then Pooh and some of the rest of you have me feeling guilty. What to do? (in addition to the goat, of course.) ;D
Shelby, do what you feel is right. That's all you can do. I think the amount of thought you're putting into this is indicative of how much you do care and hopefully whatever you decide your DIL will be able to see that too. Although, that's probably a too charitable way to look at it but you know your own heart and don't need her validation.
To be honest, I like the goat idea too. I love getting charitable donations in my name, so far I haven't received any to a charity that I would find offensive. Not everyone likes the idea of receiving a charitable donation in their name so I guess you have to know your audience. And the intent behind it, if it is to make a point it probably won't be well received and the recipient will know what you're doing.
I feel like a Grinch every time around this year since marrying DH and dealing with his FOOs holiday shenanigans -- no more! Take back your holidays, do what you feel is right and make you feel good. Whether it's giving or not giving, you got to live with yourself at the end of the day. Not them lol....thank goodness :)
Shelby - as the DIL not getting a present, I'll tell you -- to me, it's my MIL putting another nail in the coffin of our relationship. (Just like me NOT sending a card would have been.)
I guess it depends, do you care if it's YOU hammering in the nails? If the relationship is totally kaput, then sure, take a pass on DIL's gift. But if there's a glimmer of hope, of her maturing, of you being satisfied with a DS and Chilly DIL vs no relationship, then give her something.
You don't have to go all out. A gift card to a store or a restaurant or to a mani/pedi place, for an 'okay' amount is enough.
Quote from: Scoop on December 13, 2011, 10:02:33 AM
Shelby - as the DIL not getting a present, I'll tell you -- to me, it's my MIL putting another nail in the coffin of our relationship. (Just like me NOT sending a card would have been.)
I guess it depends, do you care if it's YOU hammering in the nails? If the relationship is totally kaput, then sure, take a pass on DIL's gift. But if there's a glimmer of hope, of her maturing, of you being satisfied with a DS and Chilly DIL vs no relationship, then give her something.
You don't have to go all out. A gift card to a store or a restaurant or to a mani/pedi place, for an 'okay' amount is enough.
Scoop - DIL has been nailing the coffin shut - literally this year as GMIL died a couple of months ago and my dear GFIL never heard a peep from her. I have been the one keeping the pseudo-relationship on life support. I don't think my not gifting DIL is at all like your MIL not gifting you. Your MIL has not made the efforts, excused the lapses that I have. Not accurate for your MIL and I (or Doe, Pen, Amflautist, Pooh, Begonia, etc. etc. etc.) to be put in same category as your MIL. For your thinking to be colored by your MIL's rudeness is most understandable - (and you'd probably love any of us as MILs) - but we don't stand in YOUR MIL's shoes.
The better analogy would be -- if YOU were to quit gifting, as you have been the one making the effort, and your MIL has been rude, etc. If YOU quit gifting, I would not describe it as your hammering the nails in the coffin - rather as you giving yourself much deserved relief.
JMO.
I think it is entirely possible that a halting of gift giving is a welcome relief for the receiver too. There have been several people in my life that we have just made a deal and agreed...no gift giving. It was great because we each put it out there, so neither of us is wondering why we don't get anything or if we should buy something. I think, although I do still shop for MIL, that it would make it easier to have the expectation of gift swapping removed.
Sapphire, I did not get to your reply yet when I wrote mine.
Scoop, you've settled the card question. If you are wondering about a gift for MIL, and DH wants you to handle all gift giving duties, then I think a family gift for both FIL and MIL, shipped by the company before your arrival, and addressed to them both, may be the way to go. One of the food companies, coffee or edible arrangements. A collection of holiday CD's or DVD's would also be an appropriate family style gift. Perhaps you can think of it as a host and hostess gift.
I would not send a birthday gift to someone who didn't send one to me. I would take it for what it is, that the person did not want to exchange birthday gifts anymore. And yes, be relieved. If DH asked to send MIL a birthday gift anyway, I would remind him it's inappropriate and say "I would not want to embarass someone, especially your mother, that way. "
Quote from: sapphire on December 13, 2011, 10:39:44 AM
I think it is entirely possible that a halting of gift giving is a welcome relief for the receiver too.
I agree with this. My XSIL used to go over the top with the gift giving, and it felt like a debt, honestly. Especially since I couldn't reciprocate, and honestly found holidays quite depressing due to custody issues, etc. I haven't heard a peep from her all year gift-wise (she'd send them for ALL holidays), and it's been a relief. I know that from her end, she's doing it because she feels hurt and unappreciated by her nephew (my DS), so from her end it feels like a hostile act, but DS didn't perceive it that way, and I certainly won't either. I'm hoping she doesn't send anything for Xmas or my birthday either, because it just feels awkward and uncomfortable to me. I know, I'm a little weird... :)
Now Shelby, I'm like a fungus....you can't ignore me! ;D Nah, seriously, everyone's situation is different and I'm sure people think I'm bonkers at times. I still actually do take hostess gifts everywhere I am invited and most people just kind of look at me and go, "Ummm Thank you...you didn't have to do that" because I think that's becoming such a thing of the past in most families. So, I've admitted I'm weird before and I still stand by my own self proclamation!
Well, my Mother just inspired me to write this. I just got a magazine subscription in the mail for photography! She knows that I mentioned how much I have been enjoying taking pictures. So, how about something like that? If you know enough about them to know something they like, their are so many choices, not real expensive and you don't have to even see them in person!
Sassy - DH has been on his own re: gifts for the IL's since the LAST time they 'skipped' my birthday. Let's just say the thoughtfulness of the gifts and the level-of-care put into the wrapping has gone downhill.
I wasn't quick on my feet, because we could easily have NOT given MIL a birthday gift, and I could have kept it for myself. Oh well.
Shelby - I still think it would be *me* putting nails in the coffin of our relationship. As soon as I wrote it, it felt TRUE. And the thing is, I want to be (mostly) blameless with respect to how our relationship has become. I want to be able to hold my head up and say that none of it is *MY* fault. Meaning the poor relationship MIL & DH have and also the fact that DD had to write about her GP's for a school project and wrote about her paternal GP's that "she doesn't see them very often". My Mom would WEEP if that was written about her. (DD wrote that my mom "likes to play with me". She wrote that my Dad likes to build things, and didn't feel the need to add that he died almost 3 years ago.)
My thought on the receiver might be relieved? They could be totally true in a situation where the receiver is not gifting anyone with hopes that everyone will catch on. But in Scoop's case, knowing that everyone else is receiving gifts doesn't say that to me. It says to me that MIL excluded her on purpose. We did away with all gifts, except children in my family and it was a relief to everyone, because it was getting harder financially on people and no one really needed anything. But it was across the board.
Scoop, I think you did the right thing by sending the card. That was very nice of you.
Thank you Pooh.
I agree with the relief. The year that we told our siblings that we wouldn't be exchanging gifts was a relief for everyone. We still send birthday cards and Christmas cards, because we do love each other. But we spend our money on ourselves and they spend their money on themselves and everyone's happy.
For us, it also came at a time when SIL & BIL were hurting for money (they had 2 kids and SIL was a SAHM). I think it was easier (and less embarrassing for them) for us "richer" siblings to call the end to gift giving.
Saphire: I removed a sentence in your post where you took exception to a poster, judged her as "mean" and described what you thought was wrong with her as..."passive aggressive." We don't do that here. Please re-read the Forum Agreement under Open Me First. Compliance is not suggested. It is required.
Also, knowing a posters history is helpful. Pen was receiving things like a ham bone for Xmas while for years she was searching and looking high and low for the perfect thing for these people and each and every gift was rejected by them.
I think with some people ham bones are just about all they can do. For some people gift buying satisfies a creative urge and others don't have that urge at all.
That's true, Doe. People relate differently to gifts and gift giving, which is fine. Some people use gifts as weapons too. In Pen's case I know that her stepmom and father were giving elaborate gifts to stepmoms kids and spending the holidays with them and told Pen things like Xmas is for family when Pen would suggest or invite them for a holiday get together.
In this case, a ham bone wasn't the best they could do or some odd quirk of gift giving. It was a long pattern of deliberate, malicious actions towards Pen to exclude her purposely from feeling like family.
Thanks, Pam.
My B/G w/SM & DIL is all there for anyone who cares to understand why my friend would have suggested such a solution to my gift-giving and receiving dilemma. I understand that w/o that knowledge my post may have sounded petty and mean-spirited. It's a last-resort, self-preservation tactic when nothing else has worked.
SM is unlikely to change; by my actions I choose to not allow her to hurt me anymore, and I'm lettting her know her games no longer work on me.
As I have written in previous posts, lately my DIL is trying to be civil, even friendly, when we're together. There are still some issues, but things are not as grim as they were. Although it's hard to completely feel comfortable around someone who once stated she hated us, I now feel better about resuming giving DIL thoughtful gifts I know she'll love. And DS is now handling their gifts to us, a much better arrangement.
My DS and DIL recycle gifts that they can't use or do not want. I have received some of them and must say I do not not like the idea. But Snoop maybe you could give your MIL a recycled gift, preferrably on that she will recognize. That certainly would say something.
Aww, Scoop - if you try to match your MIL low blow for low blow, you'll be your MIL soon enough. I know it's hard but don't stoop to be her equal if you can help it. jmho.
Or Pam - or Pen - I'm confused - but for all the DILs with awful MILs, the message is the same. (Sorry, trying to mix work with pleasure here)
I did that sometimes...recycled gifts. Had to put notes on them though, so I didn't give them back! :o
I'm guilty of that too. I have recycled gifts before.
I honestly don't feel guilty. I have passed on things others were delighted with...like a box of mixes teas, for instance. (I'm a coffee nut.)
I don't feel guilty about it. If they couldn't use it, then they could pass it on if they wanted. It was nice things that I couldn't use or didn't want to use. I like my Mom's recycles she gives me. She got two crock pots one year....hee hee....wish that would happen more often!
Quote from: Kate123 on December 16, 2011, 10:04:11 AM
But Snoop maybe you could give your MIL a recycled gift, preferrably on that she will recognize. That certainly would say something.
This was what I was addressing..
Sorry, D. We got off track. You're right. It would just as fuel to the fire.
ok, well I forgive y'all..... I guess.......
Psssh...you love us and you know it! ;D
I sure do!!
;D Luvs you too!
I know this is off the subject bc the subject is really about discrepancy in MILs love for her own children and also for the spouses...... it's so taxing on the heart to wonder what to get someone who is hostile or uncaring in return. So much drama.
When we were raising our children, I was working full time and doing most of the housework, buying gifts for both sides of the family (a huge task.) Finally, thank the Lord, dh's family said they were strapped for cash and could only afford gifts for their own children; I think we embarrassed them when we bought gifts for their kids; we readily agreed and it was so great and still is, seeing them on Christmas with no gifts to worry about!
On my side of the family, we gave gifts to all (small family) and then reduced it to a drawing except to give gifts to the kids and my mother. Later my sil said let's forget gifts altogether bc it's too hard w so many children entering into the family; again a relief! And Christmas was still great! No kids hurrying us up to open gifts, just having fun together.
As for bday gifts, we gradually stopped giving gifts to each other in my family except to my mother (dad deceased.) Again, a relief, timewise and financially.
That has been a huge relief on gifts!
Cards: dh's family for the most part don't do cards (stamps/cards expense, time spent); we phone if not together. Sil doesn't do cards on my side of the family. That's Christmas. We now just send bday cards to our children/gc/my side of the family bc they want to.....
So.... gifts are now just in our immediate family but if it weren't for dil wanting lots of gifts exchange, I'd go for a drawing and just get gifts for the children. We older ones don't really want to get/give gifts anyway.....
To make a long story a little less long, a lot of the drama can be spared if all adults could agree to not give gifts or cards! I know how busy young families are with their own household! Sometimes I send a card to a relative but if time runs out, I don't.
Our decision to cut short the gift-giving was due to finances and time, not hurt feelings.
But in these cases I'm reading, it's a lot of drama and hurt; I'm wondering if just skipping the cards (maybe a gradual thing) and just giving gifts to the kids (and even a drawing there) would work?
I know I sound like a Scrooge, but it's taken years to get to this "less is more" stage where we are all content w skipping gifts for the adults except for our 2 kids and their spouses and their children. (We drew names before Mom died but we all gave to her bc Dad was gone.)
Now if I could convince dil to do a drawing I'd be ecstatic bc I enjoy giving gifts to the children but to the adults it's just a hassle; no one will come up w an idea and the cost is hefty; I know my sons would be happy with this bc they don't do the work on it and the other dil who gets stuck with buying the gifts for all of us and also for her family.... a big chore.
To me, gifts for the kids is a given (although it can get out of hand.) But the true gift giving to me at Christmas is connected to my belief system, not to all and sundry! (And for adults, for bdays, they'd just as soon skip the date or celebrate w the immediate family!)
I'm with you JAOG - give gifts if you want, don't give gifts if you don't want to! Much simpler approach!