My counsellor told me that I need to get a hobby, that I have too much time on my hands. Is my day really that different then any other woman in her mid 70's?
What do you girls do with your day? what are your hobbies? Any ideas of how I can fill up my life a bit more?
I never had a career, I don't even have much of an education to speak of, mainly due to growing up in war times. I take a lot of walks, knit alot of slippers that just sit around because I have no friends to give them to.
My counsellor thinks that tormenting my DIL was my hobby? That her career and education is a part of why I resent her so. Does that make any sense? Or is my counsellor being mean to me?
Survivor,
Could be some truth to what your counselor suggests. We can not find our happiness through others. Happiness is supposed to come within ourselves. I worked my intire life....until my son died. I am too young to retire and completely unmotivated to find employment. I am no longer motived by acquiring new "stuff." Yes, I know I am depressed. What mother wouldn't be?
I have thought about volenterring however I am reclusive and not ready to take on the world.
Yes, your counselor has made a good suggestion. You need to find a hobby....join a gym, volunteer, make arts and crafts and sell those slippers at the swap shop, plant a vegetable garden in the spring. I walk everyday...sometimes I cry and walk. Walking has been my therapy.
Quote from: Survivor on January 23, 2010, 01:51:28 AM
My counsellor told me that I need to get a hobby, that I have too much time on my hands. Is my day really that different then any other woman in her mid 70's?
What do you girls do with your day? what are your hobbies? Any ideas of how I can fill up my life a bit more?
I never had a career, I don't even have much of an education to speak of, mainly due to growing up in war times. I take a lot of walks, knit alot of slippers that just sit around because I have no friends to give them to.
My counsellor thinks that tormenting my DIL was my hobby? That her career and education is a part of why I resent her so. Does that make any sense? Or is my counsellor being mean to me?
Survivor,
Go to your local community college and become a non-traditional student, you'll be surprised how many there are and you'll fit right in. Go ahead and get a broader education.
Learn to do pottery, since it isn't as easy as it looks, you can work your frustrations out on that clay. Knit for your local shelter or hospital, they can use your production of knitted hats or slippers. HECK, teach a knitting class at your local Senior Center! Learn a new craft....plastic canvas, needlepoint, crocheting, heirloom sewing, get a kit and try something different. If you have a local needlepoint shop, they usually have classes in shop, a nice way to meet new friends too. Take a tap dancing class. Try yoga. Try Tai'Chi. Volunteer at your local animal shelter....those puppies and kitties need a tender hand stroking them. Volunteer at your local library as a "reader", try out for the spot of the story lady. See if your local school has the "Room Grandmother/father" program....that is where you go into class and help out the little kids.
Survivor, I think Orly has some great ideas. Are you able to get around easily? If so then I think you should just get out there and do stuff! And I'd love to hear about it! I'm sure a lot of other people here would too.
This is a hobby, Survivor. Being interested in what's going on with other people, interacting with them, lending an e-hand to those reaching out can be therapeutic. It's an e-community.
For me, a 82 and 10/12ths, a non-profit retirement community has made a huge difference in my life. Some of us are low-income, some are loaded. Nobody seems to care which. I've been here 10 years. We volunteer when we want to and are entertained if that appeals. those who are interested can take trips near and far together. We visit with neighbors...I'm in a four-plex. We go to support groups. It's endless and everyone does as much or as little as they choose. We have a Thrift Shop where we can work and a ceramic shop and crocheted slippers would go to the needy. We all feel useful. I think that is what promotes health. It's become my extended family. There are over 350 of us on a large, forested, rural campus on a bluff looking over Puget Sound in WA state.
To get a sense of it and other similar places, go to: www.warmbeach.org Yup, that's a picture of me on the home page. LOL!
To me, isolation is the greatest enemy. I love my privacy and solitude but they are a choice, just like a swimming class or waiting table in our restaurant is. Choice is a many-spendored thing.
Sending love... :D
Everyone has their own situations, with limits and wide-open possiblilities in varied amounts. Luise, I love your descriptions of your residence. I've always loved that part of the country, and I can sit and watch the lighting change over a beautiful landscape for hours (AKA "watching paint dry" LOL.) It sounds like a very special place, with enough activities to keep you active and vital.
But even with limits regarding neighbors, activities, nature, need for reclusiveness or whatever, Survivor, if you're online here you can be online anywhere! There are a lot of online classes and groups to join, such as arts & crafts, book clubs, computer skills. Some of the tutorials are free if you look. It might give you a place to start, to find out what you're interested in.
luise.volta I did not know you are a celebrity. Your home is beautiful thank you for sharing it with us.
Yes, there is a difference between being alone or just lonely. Seems your community takes care of everyone...lucky you!
Quote from: luise.volta on January 23, 2010, 08:48:38 AM
This is a hobby, Survivor. Being interested in what's going on with other people, interacting with them, lending an e-hand to those reaching out can be therapeutic. It's an e-community.
For me, a 82 and 10/12ths, a non-profit retirement community has made a huge difference in my life. Some of us are low-income, some are loaded. Nobody seems to care which. I've been here 10 years. We volunteer when we want to and are entertained if that appeals. those who are interested can take trips near and far together. We visit with neighbors...I'm in a four-plex. We go to support groups. It's endless and everyone does as much or as little as they choose. We have a Thrift Shop where we can work and a ceramic shop and crocheted slippers would go to the needy. We all feel useful. I think that is what promotes health. It's become my extended family. There are over 350 of us on a large, forested, rural campus on a bluff looking over Puget Sound in WA state.
To get a sense of it and other similar places, go to: www.warmbeach.org Yup, that's a picture of me on the home page. LOL!
To me, isolation is the greatest enemy. I love my privacy and solitude but they are a choice, just like a swimming class or waiting table in our restaurant is. Choice is a many-spendored thing.
Sending love... :D
I'm with Luise. You can view being a hermit as isolation (due to loneliness), or it can be solitude! I like my solitude and I guess when I'm not working I'm a bit of a hermit. Not that I always am, just that it's what I enjoy. I do quite a bit of gardening like invisible, have vegetables, flowers and herbs. I love to cook! Lov to bake - anything in the kitchen! At the end of the day I walk. Then, weather permitting, I'm on the patio enjoying a good book! Being a bit on the nerdy side, the book is usually a self help book, a novel, or it's something spiritual.
But basically a hobby would be something that you love doing! Like Luise said, this site is a hobby. Sometimes by helping others or reaching out to them, you ultimately end up helping yourself in that process.
Survivor, if you like knitting or crocheting, why don't you look into donating those slippers to the nearest hospital for the patients? I used to go by the hospitals dressed as a clown and take hand-crocheted gifts and balloons to the children who were stuck there on holidays. Some of the nurses started calling me to come in when they would get a special child there! It became alot of fun AND turned out to be a hobby! Look around you for things that make you happy and expand the ideas...
I myself, am a homebody.
I love to do alot of different handicrafts....usually have one project going in each one I do. Love to read. The gardening skills are mostly weeding....have the famous "black thumb of death" to plants. I do the fixing up stuff, painting, wallpapering etc. Am slow in getting repairs done or outside projects done...but get them eventually completed. Not much on shopping....like to look, don't care for much of what I see, so don't buy. I do like to collect those handicraft patterns and have quite a few from the turn of the century, um...the 1800's to 1900's.
Love to cruise the web....my boys have gotten me hooked on playing a web game, so I get to interact with the younger members of the family there....yes, the family computer people like to play there, plus we catch up on what is going on.
I used to have hobbies - lately I haven't been putting in the effort. I come home from work so drained that I can barely put a meal together for DH & I, even when it's already in the crockpot :) Back in the day I loved to draw and paint; gardening was enjoyable, as was settling in with a good book.
I've grown into a homebody...but used to be very active...loved to travel, and now, that I'm in a 55+ community, well, frankly I have home expenses which I didn't have before...and I'm happy, gardening, cooking, having dinner parties...spending a lot of time with my dog going for walks...and company, however, I would love to live where Luise lives...Luise, you are very very lucky, it looks stunning! And you are wise to be active, keeps the mind fresh and motivated.
I love to sew...crochet, although I haven't had time to do so...been painting and decorating....
So, Survivor, there is so much life out there, so many things to do...I so enjoy traveling alone...and there are fabulous bus trips organized, by your local tour bus travel center in your area. They get the best seats for plays, and the best motels/hotels for over night sight seeing tours....they are lots of fun and you meet a lot of really great people....plan a trip...it give the body, mind and spirit something wonderful to look forward to, and we humans so need that...if we dont' keep ourselves busy, or stop making plans to do things, well, it's just not healthy for our spirits, yanno?
It is never too late to add a little education at the local community college. I am suprised at the number of people my age - 55 -that are actively involved there. I love gardening, cross stitch, crochet, panting and just taking care of my home. I am really "family oriented" - I think that is why this rift with the DIL is so disturbing to me. Over the years, the children and I have overcome many obstacles and this is the first "stand off" that has cropped up. We have always talked our way through it. I blame the DIL because the reaction is so not like "us". It feels like she is breaking the family.....
CG, I know what you mean about "breaking the family." It happened so quickly my head and heart could not catch up, and I'm still reeling.
Quote from: Carolina Gal on February 08, 2010, 03:57:40 PM
It is never too late to add a little education at the local community college. I am suprised at the number of people my age - 55 -that are actively involved there. I love gardening, cross stitch, crochet, panting and just taking care of my home. I am really "family oriented" - I think that is why this rift with the DIL is so disturbing to me. Over the years, the children and I have overcome many obstacles and this is the first "stand off" that has cropped up. We have always talked our way through it. I blame the DIL because the reaction is so not like "us". It feels like she is breaking the family.....
I know the feeling, and she is breaking the family....but like Luise said, what helps me, is understanding the whys of why she is doing it....yanno, it's kinda sad when you think about it...that these women really do not know any better, due to how they were raised...so, the lesson in this is, be so thankful we had close family and experienced the love we were shown, the respect we were expected to project to others, and, to know, that our choices, can effect so many other lives in a good or bad way....I mean, think about it, can you imagine, just for a moment, how sad our DIL's lives must have been to hate us that much, to actually break up families...due to self imposition, jealousy, immaturity...put yourself in her place for a moment, can you imagine how angry they must be, deep inside...to want to hurt others like this and to actually be able to live with it? If hurting us, makes them happy, what kind of life is that? If winning, meaning, they've managed to turn our son's against us...what kind of life would that be, and even worse...how lonely and sad....
A lot of these women, never had love before, or were able to love, so now they have it, and they're going to hold onto it, no matter what or who they hurt....plus, they mold they're husband's into they're idea of what love is...which doesn't give they're husband's very much, does it...they are controlling, and afraid...and if they loose control, they feel like they're whole world would fall apart....so, they get what they want by manipulation, pretending, and playing a part...I bet, inside, they don't even know who they are really....so, we've got so much to be thankful for....we often talk over Christmas dinner, how fortunate we were, and what a good childhood we had....and we did...we really did....
Stand tall my friend...no matter what....
Hugs to ya,
creme
What a nice post, Creme! I totally agree! Understanding the "why's" doesn't take away the hurt, but it does lessen the sting a bit!
Quote from: cocobars on February 09, 2010, 05:20:09 AM
What a nice post, Creme! I totally agree! Understanding the "why's" doesn't take away the hurt, but it does lessen the sting a bit!
Morning Coco
good to see you...yes, understanding them, takes the edge off the hurt for me....
The root causes of hate and loathing are the fears of not being accepted and of chaos in one's life. These fears often drive people to do horrible things to one another, in hopes that by eliminating the object of a person's fear it will go away. In our case, we, the MIL's. Our DIL's are perfectly happy that we're not in they're lives...b/c they fear us...
Instead, the fear only gets worse, as every action validates the negative feelings of fear inside one's self. (which was what I wasn't getting, and simply trying harder which in turn, made her hate me more and she validated the negative feelings in being rude, letting me know, I wasn't really wanted around)
In the extreme, this fear has driven people to genocide; to a lesser extent, it has destroyed marriages, family relations and friendships, your and mine....
If you find yourself hating someone, or something about a person, ask yourself what you are afraid of with regard to that person; then, eliminate the fear within you, and you will erradicate the hate of others. Indulge the fear within you, and the hate will persist forever.
Ultimately, hate will destroy the hater, not the object.
I used to browse hate sites, and was astonished at how sadly, so many people took things as a personal attack against they're characters
Do you know, I saw a post where one DIL, asks if they would attend they're MIL's funeral...one gal, no two, said, they would urninate on they're graves....shhesssh? How utterly sad, that they could talk like that about another human being? That is the stuff they're husband's should know...these girls project one person, and are another...what a shame to even think of something so vile and unladylike?
Quote from: cremebrulee on February 09, 2010, 05:31:17 AM
The root causes of hate and loathing are the fears of not being accepted and of chaos in one's life. These fears often drive people to do horrible things to one another, in hopes that by eliminating the object of a person's fear it will go away. In our case, we, the MIL's. Our DIL's are perfectly happy that we're not in they're lives...b/c they fear us...
Instead, the fear only gets worse, as every action validates the negative feelings of fear inside one's self. (which was what I wasn't getting, and simply trying harder which in turn, made her hate me more and she validated the negative feelings in being rude, letting me know, I wasn't really wanted around)
In the extreme, this fear has driven people to genocide; to a lesser extent, it has destroyed marriages, family relations and friendships, your and mine....
If you find yourself hating someone, or something about a person, ask yourself what you are afraid of with regard to that person; then, eliminate the fear within you, and you will erradicate the hate of others. Indulge the fear within you, and the hate will persist forever.
Ultimately, hate will destroy the hater, not the object.
This is so true of "hate." It is driven by fear and destroys the hater mor so than the "hated." I strive to keep myself in check when I feel a strong dislike for someone and always end up in my "thinking corner," trying to figure out how I can resolve my own feelings, sometimes turning the whole situation around. I'm human and it doesn't always work, but if we are more aware of you're one simple truth here (as you've stated it", I believe it really helps us to stay in a more positive mindframe. I guess I'm a dreamer, but a forgiving dreamer nonetheless...
Thanks for posting this insight! How absolutely true it is! This world would be such a better place if more people realized these things and paid more attention to the "whys" of their own feelings. Wouldn't that be nice...
P.S.- Good morning - I'm happy to see you in here this morning too! Brightens the day ahead!
I was thinking about "hate" and I think I've found what it is.....it is a feeling between love and apathy. First there is love, then hate, then apathy.
The opposite of love is really apathy, not hate.
Chickie, I've never really thought about it that way. To hate someone you have to have an emotion about them whereas apathy is a big nothingness, no connection whatsoever. Thank you for this train of thought.
Someone, I can't remember which pop-psych person, once said that you can't shut off one emotion without shutting off the others. They gave an example of trying to play the piano with baseball gloves on your hands. My apathy towards the activities (hobbies) I used to enjoy may be due to trying to shut off my feelings of sadness, anger, hurt, envy, etc. etc. surrounding DS/DIL.
Time to get back on track and figure out a way to balance this. As someone else said, "Fake it til you make it." If I just do the activities, one day I'll be enjoying them with my old enthusiasm!
I agree - whatever avenue we take to come to terms with our situation - it can not be hate. Hate indeed distroys the hater's soul. I think we should feel sorry for these miserable people and hope that one day they gain the insight to become positive, contributing individuals.....
yes, we should, Carolina...it's hard to focus, though. So many rules today. No one just goes along and gets along. Everyone seems to have a motive and money is everything.
I agree Chickie,money doesn't make you who you are.And it shouldn't alter your ego.
I would never pick money over family
I wouldn't either, MominW, but they do many times.
What are some of the things you learned without money, Coco? I know there's a bunch...love to hear them.
Please tell me that money is not the aim for everyone! Success is not rooted in money. I have know a lot of very miserable people that had lots of money-some really lost and pitiful people. I worked in a bank as an underwriter for 25 years.....Life is a journey and each step is a special one.
I understand, Coco....we will wait till you are ready. I know it must have been a very deep wound. So glad you're here!! :)
The only thing I can think of saying "out loud" is that money can buy alot of things, but it doesn't buy love (or me). I know that sounds like a cliche - a very well known one, but it's true. Thank you for understanding.
Chickie, I believe you have a huge heart and I also believe you have all you need to be happy in this life. I hope your sons wake up soon, before it's too late. I hope they will look at you and wonder what they were thinking and I really believe you will have both of them at your side before long. They can't turn their backs on someone who loves them so much and control isn't love. I don't see you as a woman who would raise a son to believe it was.
I don't have any money now. It's truly a blessing...
I'm so glad you're at peace :)
I was a single parent the first time around. I hope my children saw how much I loved them and tried to be such a good parent. My MIL told me what a good mother I was and I was so happy to hear those words from her. I thought she was such a good mother too. Her son was like her husband and she had such a hard life. I divorced him after trying to work things out that would not work out. I was a single parent for awhile. Still staying in contact with my MIL. Don't really know why I'm here because I never really had any MIL problems! LOL!
My second husband is the one I call husband. He was a minister's son. Fighter Pilot, Psychologist. I've never said anything bad about him. I still to this day can't do that. So there are stil things I just can't seem admit. I can face them, have faced them, can look them in the eye. That's where I stop. I've never understood it. It's been three years. I don't know how long it will take. I may never speak about him again. That's ok with me.
It's hard to explain. I have a friend who lost her husband through a heart attack. I see parallels between our situations but am not sure I could tell her about it. I lost my husband too (he ran off to Costa Rica with the woman du juor). I see the only real difference being that her's in not on this earth, but mine is here somewhere. He may turn up again someday bringing all his hurt with him. It doesn't mean I don't love him any less, just that I have that pain if I see him.
I'm sorry, I know this wasn't the subject here. I felt I needed to answer a question honestly.
Thank you for telling us, Coco....we love you!!
I love you too, my friend Chickie. I know you didn't know when you asked and had no way of telling.
I'm just happy to be here in this safe place where there are so many wonderful and understanding people. I really love you all so much! You give me a reason to smile! :) ;D
It's all I need...
Coco, i don't know what to say except that the more I read your posts the more you impress me. You are truly a wonderful person and deserve the best that life has to offer.
Sometimes, I go back and read posts I've missed. Once again, Creme, you are analyzing like I have been doing and you are real close to unlocking the DIL fury. Fear, can drive people to do unforgiveable things. Makes perfect sense.
I am thinking more clearly a few days out from talk with son. At first, I did second-guess myself and did not talk just to upset him. But, I had to tell him. I had had enough. And, now that I have done that, I am thinking of things that happened and I denied for so long. But, it doesn't have that trauma feeling with it. If I cannot stick up for myself, who will? But, if I am not able to tell how I feel without FEAR of retaliation, then what kind of situation/relationship is it anyway?
I am not angry. I feel good now. Their anger doesn't make me afraid. I love the GC. But Grandma had to go. XOXO
As much as we love our children, we have to speak up for ourselves at some point. To be afraid to be honest and open in any relationship is not really a relationship. Maturity should allow us to express what we think and feel and be accepted as an individual even if we are wrong or the other party can not agree. I am so very glad I have such a great relationship with my husband (my second). I think this rift with the DIL and my first born son would crush me if I did not have the relationship that exist between the two of us. I can compare.....We can not just "shovel" everything we think and believe to hang on to a relationship, I think. Sometimes a person can expect too much or place a price too high within the relationship when it comes to requests. I am beginning to think that I will have to give up myself and conform to the rules of the "controller" to get along. Is that a relationship? In my relationship with my first husband, I learned that giving in an tolerating the controller gives her/him more power and the emotional and sometime physical abuse heightens. It is better to be honest and open - even at the risk of losing a a relationship that is tied to your heart. As you can see, I am still wrestling with the whys and hows. I send cards and leave unreturned messages about every 1 or 2 weeks. Should I stop doing this? The silence and lack of response now present translates to "I don't care" in my mind. Maybe I am wrong - I hope so....
Quote from: guest1 on February 09, 2010, 07:21:36 PM
Coco, i don't know what to say except that the more I read your posts the more you impress me. You are truly a wonderful person and deserve the best that life has to offer.
That's a sweet thing to say, Guest1. Thanks. I think we are lucky to have eachother here.
I had to remove a couple of posts trying to talk about this so if you're reading through and they are not making sense, that's the reason why.
Quote from: Carolina Gal on February 10, 2010, 03:59:12 AM
As much as we love our children, we have to speak up for ourselves at some point. To be afraid to be honest and open in any relationship is not really a relationship. Maturity should allow us to express what we think and feel and be accepted as an individual even if we are wrong or the other party can not agree. I am so very glad I have such a great relationship with my husband (my second). I think this rift with the DIL and my first born son would crush me if I did not have the relationship that exist between the two of us. I can compare.....We can not just "shovel" everything we think and believe to hang on to a relationship, I think. Sometimes a person can expect too much or place a price too high within the relationship when it comes to requests. I am beginning to think that I will have to give up myself and conform to the rules of the "controller" to get along. Is that a relationship? In my relationship with my first husband, I learned that giving in an tolerating the controller gives her/him more power and the emotional and sometime physical abuse heightens. It is better to be honest and open - even at the risk of losing a a relationship that is tied to your heart. As you can see, I am still wrestling with the whys and hows. I send cards and leave unreturned messages about every 1 or 2 weeks. Should I stop doing this? The silence and lack of response now present translates to "I don't care" in my mind. Maybe I am wrong - I hope so....
Hi Carolina!
Wrestling with all these questions is something we all have to do. It's the only way to know you are making the best decisions for yourself. I can't imagine what DS and DIL would be thinking when they don't return your calls and messages. I would most likely wonder about the "don't care" issue, and convince myself (until I can get ahold of them and feel them out) that they are just really busy, and may intend to return the call and forget in all the rush.
I agree with you. A controlling relationship can get out of hand. You have to weigh the pro's and con's of each decision to see if the consequences are something you can live with, before giving up. I know I'm not much help here. I think they are not treating you fairly and don't understand why people do those things (or don't do them). I really do believe that time will put them in a position someday to understand what they did to you. It may be down the road into the future, but they will, and I hope they come back and hug you!
I think you're doing a wonderful job, Anna! Your "best" is always good enough and I hope you are proud of yourself!
Feel that? It's me, patting your back! ;D
Thank you Coco. Please keep hoping they come back - I am still praying on that. Otherwise I will have to adjust to this hole in my heart and move on - focusing on anything other than they. The other day I realized that my step children and step daughter in laws treat me much better than woman married to my first son - true but so sad! I am not sure weighing these things out is all that smart. Sometimes I think it will be decided by how much pain and rejection I can take. I did not have a easy relationship with my prior MIL, however always treated her with the utmost respect - it was not a question. I can not comprehend hurting someone this way and I know my son was raised not to behave this way. I fear the DIL will change his way of thinking....that he will lose all the wonderful qualities that he posessed prior to joining with her. He would have responded to the calls and letters before...I was so proud of him until this Christmas and would not have imagined that he ever would have acted this way ever.
Coco Stay sweet. Your life battles have only made you a deeper and more caring person.......
This is embarrassing but it is also funny, so I'm sharing it with you. I was checking to see what threads I needed to catch up on and what I read was "I Need A Hubby!" ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: luise.volta on February 15, 2010, 08:06:51 PM
This is embarrassing but it is also funny, so I'm sharing it with you. I was checking to see what threads I needed to catch up on and what I read was "I Need A Hubby!" ;D ;D ;D
:) ;D Oh that is hilarious! My giggle of the day! "That" would sure be a "hobby" alrighty! :D
Perfect for the "Inspiration" Folder....
Quote from: luise.volta on February 15, 2010, 08:06:51 PM
This is embarrassing but it is also funny, so I'm sharing it with you. I was checking to see what threads I needed to catch up on and what I read was "I Need A Hubby!" ;D ;D ;D
That's something I don't need! LOL!
Coco Thanks for the laugh. BIG difference hobby vs hubby.....
That was Luise having a senior moment! ;D ;D
I wonder...since I am my hubby's full time care giver, perhaps it is my hobby!!! More ;D ;Ds
Basketweaving, Luise? :P
I have an idea, Ladies....why don't we have ourselves checked in to a full fledged nuthouse where they will talk to us and tell us what is wrong and we'll get to paint and basketweave and chat with the other people there? I'll bet we find them interesting. :) (this will all be done on a cruise ship)
We could act like we are hearing things and distract the leader so he/she will let us continue talk and paint when we're supposed to be listening. :)
Ooooooooooo! Where do I make my reservation?!! :P
We could have a ball!!
I did that once about 12 years ago. I belonged to an e-community and we all met for a long weekend at Ghost ranch in New Mexico. What a hoot!
Oooooh, Chicki, You are a riot! :) C'mon, you have done this before? LOL...
Ah, the visual of a shipload of MILs and DILs. 8) We are having a tropical heatwave....
If I keep talking to myself, I am never alone, right. LOL
Senior moments welcome! That would be great!
And, I do love the new name. :)
I agree. The new name, is very inclusive and welcoming to both MILs and DILs. One more way, this site, is evolving.
Thank you! It's you guys that are doing it! :D