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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: dilstress on April 17, 2012, 09:00:19 AM

Title: any advice?
Post by: dilstress on April 17, 2012, 09:00:19 AM
Mil and dil advice needed....its been quite some time since my last entry. I was under user name stressed out before. So if need be can catch up on previous conflicts w mil.mil has not spoken to son myself or grandkids ages 3 and 4 in over a year.  Here is my problem..mil sends cards on holidays..so yes she is just a holiday grandma..but misses bday intentionally due to she likes to punish us. We have tried to make amends w her but she told hubby she will never have anythng nice to say to me. And will never accept apology from me. Then bshe turns arnd and acts like she is the victim. ??? We prerty much disowned her andhave never spoken abt her to the kids since they think they receive gifts from mr.amazon when she send xmas presents. I guess I am lookng for points of vieww on why mil is so unwilling to try to communicate on her end and try to make it work. We tried on our end and it ends up same way...mil yells at son and hangs up...is she ever going to realize tht because of her behavior she just misses out on grandkids and our lives? Or will she just grow old and play the victim her whole lofe?  side note she lives far away from us and lives w her other son and grandchild. So at least we don't hve direct contact w her but she always goes thrgh son instead of communicating directly w us.  We decided tht we no longer want her part of our lives or kids lives since they will just b disappointed by her at some point.  Question..has anyone ever experienced this same thing? And do people finally open up their eyes and realize she yhas to some how change her behavior for the better or is this just a lost cause and we should just face it tht shis out of our lives forever????
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: jdtm on April 17, 2012, 09:37:35 AM
Quotewhy mil is so unwilling to try to communicate on her end and try to make it work.

Sometimes, it's not that the person is "unwilling" to communicate but that the person is "unable" to communicate.  Those with mental health issues and personality disorders would fit into this category.

QuoteQuestion..has anyone ever experienced this same thing?

Yes, not my mother-in-law but my sister-in-law.

Quotedo people finally open up their eyes and realize she yhas to some how change her behavior for the better

Maybe, but in our case - not yet.  I do feel that my sister-in-law does have some personality disorder issues and without lots and lots of therapy, she can not change.  And, she will not change.  By the way, my sister-in-law totally discounts what I say and what I do and whom I am (in fact, she's tried everything to make me "disappear" or at least "leave" the family).  I am redundant to her family/life (I suspect your MIL feels the same about you).

Quotethis just a lost cause and we should just face it

Probably ...

Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Scoop on April 17, 2012, 09:51:36 AM
But DILStress, just think, if your MIL were to listen to your apology and try and work on a relationship with you, would she get as much attention as she does now?

Right now, she cries to her friends, neighbours and family at how terrible you guys are, that you don't want a relationship with her and that she sends you gifts and yet, she gets nothing.  I'm sure everyone she meets pats her on the back and says "oh you poor dear!". 

And if she wants to feel the love of a DS / GC, she has that at home, she doesn't need to go looking to you guys, so far away, to get that.

Sorry DILstress, but she has to be getting *something* out of this set-up and I think this is what it is.  And if you look at it this way, then she's getting more out of THIS set up than she would out of a relationship that she has to work on.  I just don't think you guys have the right "currency" to bargain with her.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Pooh on April 17, 2012, 10:24:13 AM
I agree with Scoop and yes, she will grow old and play victim her entire life until she decides to change. 
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: dilstress on April 17, 2012, 10:43:23 AM
So do just let sleeping dogs lie? Or do we confront her and tell her please do not send anythng to kids since it is so inconsistent and we do not want any contact w her ever again? It has been quite refreshing not hvng her in our lives.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: luise.volta on April 17, 2012, 12:21:34 PM
My take: "Whys" may not exist. We can't make sense of the senseless. And we can't change others. Sometimes they can change themselves but often it is easier to be right and blame everyone else. You have the right to protect yourselves and your kids from negative behavior and role modeling. 
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Pooh on April 17, 2012, 12:28:52 PM
If you guys decide to make the total cut-off decision, then I think you have to put a stop to the gifts, no matter how sparadic they are.  I think if you don't, you are sending mixed messages.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: luise.volta on April 17, 2012, 12:40:32 PM
And if she doesn't listen and the gifts don't stop, you probably need to inform her that they are going to a Thrift Store without being opened.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Pooh on April 17, 2012, 12:45:28 PM
Yeppers, Luise is right.

Of course, take my two cents with a grain of salt.  I'm an all or nothing type girl!
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: constantmargaret on April 17, 2012, 02:03:36 PM
My husband's parents are deceased, but my XH's M was a rig. She would cut you off and not speak to you, then all of a sudden send the kids presents so that her son would have to call and thank her. Then she'd make him feel so guilty for not contacting her he'd cry. I understand that he has been estranged from her for several years now. 

She has one daughter she had not spoken to in maybe 20 years, and when her husband became ill with Parkinson's disease, that daughter contacted her in order to see her father before he passed. I was shocked to hear that they had had a reunion. So I guess I'm saying it's never too late.

My advice is to live without stress if you can. If it looks like a reconciliation is possible without you having to stand on your heads for her, give it a try. Worst thing that can happen is you go back to no contact, which is where you are now. Then stay there knowing you tried. That's all you can do.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: dilstress on April 17, 2012, 04:16:12 PM
My husband and I hve tried to reconcile..I sent an apology letter on my/behalf for my behavior. Mil called son and said she would never hve anythng nice to say to me and tht the famile never wants to hear from me. How does one respond to that? Then over xmas mil had son who she lives with give us guilt trip. Saying we just hold grudges and keeping our kids away from mil on purpose. Don't we hve a valid reason why we don't want anythng to do with her?  Would love to send her text sayhing just stop communicating w cards to kids altogether and until she grows us stay out of our lives. But hubby is type to hold it all in and doesn't like to put fuel on the fire..advice?????  I never hve dealt w such mean family before and its hard for me to. Just sit back and take it all in wout saying anythng.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Doe on April 17, 2012, 06:00:03 PM
I'm of a mind (today) that you could just accept who she is. I think all she wants is to be the the GM who sends gifts on holidays. I don't see a problem with the recipients (the kids?) send a nice handwritten thank  you note.  I would let the social mores run the situation.  She gives a gift, she is thanked for the gift.   I wouldn't originate any communication to her (she has said she doesn't want it).   If she sends something, send a polite message back and that's it.    You be the polite person - don't let her turn you into herself.

Don't expect her to change and (my new hobby horse) don't send emotional messages on texts or email!!!  If you must have some heavy, charged conversation, have it face to face or just don't have it. 
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: constantmargaret on April 17, 2012, 06:05:48 PM
Only you can say if your reasons are valid. Hopefully you and your husband feel the same way.

If you have written a letter of apology, and that didn't smooth things over, what else are you supposed to try? She basically drew a line in the sand and said she would never accept your apology or have anything nice to say about you. You say it's refreshing not having to deal with her. I'd say that's your answer. Ignore the poor brother who is being used as a bad will ambassador.

If you have really decided to have no contact with your MIL, you can write Refused on any cards or items that she sends provided you don't open them first and return them to the Postal Service.

You know, never is a long time. Hopefully things will get better, but if not, don't sacrifice your peace for some crippled relationship with someone who has made her feelings for you pretty plain. That's what I'm learning here.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: pam1 on April 18, 2012, 04:05:18 PM
Welcome :)

Coming from a similar experience, DH and I adopted the philosphy if you cannot or will not have a relationship with the parents, you will not have one with the child.  Sends too many mixed messages, IMO, to a child to receive gifts but doesn't know the actual person who is giving them.

Just my take, you have to do what is best for you.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: dilstress on April 18, 2012, 06:45:46 PM
Thanks for the advice everyone. We did decide a long time ago..no relationship w us then no relationship w kids.besides the kid don't even know who she is. From here on out we will be returning tosender on cards and donating any items that may come ourway. Mil will never change and her selfish ways is somethng she will hve to live with not knowing her grandkids. We r happy and healthy andhve dealt w this issue for a number of years so its good to know tht other people hve this issues as well and I did not cause all of these problems on my own.  Thanks again and any other advice is helpful. This site is a huge stress reliver for me being able to talk abt issues tht other people hve w their mil.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Doe on April 19, 2012, 08:00:38 AM
I'm curious - how will this play out when she dies and possibly leaves money to your children.  Will you also refuse that?   

My son and his wife have denied my access to my GC and so now I'm deciding do I penalize GC by not leaving money when I die?  She doesn't get any gifts that I would have given because my DIL got mad at me? 

I'd love to hear from other DILs about this - if you've cut off the MIL, should there be nothing in the will for the GKs?


Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: dilstress on April 19, 2012, 10:26:26 AM
 Actually she has no money to leave and lives w her son..therefor I am positive she would leave nothng to us..yes it would be sad but there comes a time where she should think about her age and what could have been if she would just come to terms with accepting us and our boundaries. We would love nothng more than to hve kids knwgma but we tried and she burned us..fool me once shame on me fool we twice shame on u? Is tht the saying...she has always gotten her way by playing the guilt trip card and gettng wht she wants. We r very proytective of our kids and hve a great network of family and friends so if we hve a couple bad eggs tht will continue to be toxic then we choose not to hve them in our lives. No one wins here its sad but it is wht it is.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Liz on April 19, 2012, 07:08:53 PM
Dilstress...  We went to therapy over this.  Our counselor was great and fully supported me abandoning the relationship with inlaws.  My dh didn't want to cut his parents off... So he continues on with a very superficial relationship.  They live 2000 miles away... They talk about 4x a year.  I emailed inlaws and asked they not send me Christmas or birthday gifts.  They complied.  Only I received a trinket out of the blue a few months ago... It promptly was sent back.  Which really irritated them.  They send gifts to the kids on birthdays and Christmas.  They never spend more than $20... Most often their gifts are thoughtless.  Our kids are old enough to understand the conflict... And the fact that grandparents have issues.  So that was easy enough. 

For many years inlaws joked about behaving with respect towards them to "stay in the will".   They inherited 2 million dollars and have held it over our head for years.  When I decided to take a stand, I knew we would be disinherited.  I also knew my kids probably would be too.  The counselor called a private session with my dh to explore if he would be ok with that.  And thankfully dh doesn't care about their money.  I know I could never sell my soul for an inheritance.  They really changed for the worse when they inherited this money.  I don't even want it for my kids.  It would be divided among several relatives.... They can have it all.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: luise.volta on April 19, 2012, 08:04:39 PM
Good for you!  :D  Sending love...
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Doe on April 20, 2012, 07:37:38 AM
Thanks, ladies - you've given me the strength to re-write my will leaving my son out of it.  I have a feeling that he and his wife feel the same way you do so it shouldn't be any big deal to them.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: pam1 on April 20, 2012, 08:00:25 AM
Doe, just to chime in with my thoughts.  I can't control what MIL/FIL do concerning their will, I'm not going to worry over it.  When and if the time comes and they leave money to my child, hopefully I will have taught her some good values concerning money.  That's about the extent I care to think of it. 
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Scoop on April 20, 2012, 08:24:49 AM
Doe, I've been thinking about your dilemma.

I was raised with a clear and strong sense of fairness.  My Mom is almost fanatical in her fairness.  So the idea of disinheriting one child is really hard for me to wrap my head around.

I know at one point, my IL's had disinherited their DD, my SisIL.  I also know that if anything had happened to the IL's, I would have put GREAT pressure on my DH to share 50/50 with his sister.  It would have been a TERRIBLE legacy for my IL's to leave to their kids and could have caused fighting for generations.  Even then, I don't know if SIL would have accepted it, but then it would have been put aside for their kid's education.

So on one hand, for the sake of your kids getting along after you're gone, I think it should be fair.  And that the time, money and effort you 'spend' on the child you have a relationship with should be their "extra" inheritance.  And really, those memories and connections ARE more valuable.

But on the other had, I can understand not wanting to 'reward' a rotten person.

There are just too many scenarios, so to me:

- if one sibling takes care of the parents in their old age/infirmity, and the other doesn't help, then I think THAT sibling should get the lion's share of the inheritance

- if one sibling is disabled and 'needs' the inheritance more (I'm looking at you Pen), then any inheritance should be used to take care of them for the rest of their lives, and anything leftover can go to the other sibling.

- if you have enough to go around, I think a little something for the GK's would be a nice boost for their education / home.  And here, I would include ALL GK's, even the ones of the rotten kids, because to me, the GK's are blameless.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: constantmargaret on April 20, 2012, 08:27:57 AM
My plan is to spend every last penny.  Nobody gets nuthin.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Silver Spring on April 20, 2012, 08:49:58 AM
I think the point of a will is to make sure your money is spent as you see fit. No one is really entitled to that money but you, therefore, it makes sense to me that a will be written with your best intentions and wishes in mind, if that means leaving people out, divying it up exactly to the penny evenly, donating it, or something else. There probably isn't a right or wrong in that regard.

You can't take it with you, so spending every last penny before the time comes isn't a bad way to do it either.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: pam1 on April 20, 2012, 08:52:36 AM
Quote from: constantmargaret on April 20, 2012, 08:27:57 AM
My plan is to spend every last penny.  Nobody gets nuthin.

I like that plan!
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: artlady on April 20, 2012, 09:10:18 AM
I've got a book i read "Die Broke" written by Michael J. Fox's father in law who is a big financial adviser. He says you give and do for your kids while you are living so therefore you leave them nothing when you die.  Also he states that if you have done your finances right that the check to the funeral home should bounce , there is no money any where else so the FH eats that check. If our economy continues to tank that is what may very well happen to many folks , unintentionally. I was wondering if your kids are doing OK if it is just better to leave it all to the gk's to be able to go to college, buy their first home or use to get started in whatever but by then i don't' know if my nest egg will be more than $2.50 so that will have to go a long ways.  lol
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Doe on April 20, 2012, 09:12:36 AM
Oh, wow!  Thanks chiming in, everybody. DILstress, I don't want to hijack your thread if you still need to work things out so I'm fine if someone wants to move this one over.

I love love love the idea of spending every last penny but I am so frugal and can't wrap my mind around actually doing that.  Someday, maybe.

Scoop - I've been that fanatically fair mom that you mention up until now, except estranged son is in the lead with all the wedding contribution and new child $$ we sent his way. 

I never planned for one son to exclude me from his life, not even getting a pictures.  At one point, he told his brother that he had cut me off and didn't want him to share any of his life with me.    OK, well, I'll respect his wishes and not intrude into his life.   I think that leaving someone an inheritance is a kind of intrusion, albeit a good one.   

Listening to the DILs whose DHs want nothing to do with their moms has moved me out of a kind of denial ('maybe someday he'll want me back in his life again.') and helped me see that any gifts that I leave would probably not be welcome in the spirit that I would give them.

It's painful, though.  It's like walking by those big teddy bears at Costco and wanting to buy one for your GC but knowing that you can't. 

I'll check that book out, artlady - that sounds like a good starting place!


Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Pen on April 20, 2012, 07:20:11 PM
The gifts I've sent my DF & SM have been hidden away in dark recesses of their closet or returned to us in a box marked "junk." I learned early on that people who don't like you don't want stuff from you. They don't want to look at that stuff & have to think of you. I give DIL gift cards, and she seems to appreciate them. If she started returning them I'd stop giving them.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Doe on April 21, 2012, 06:33:14 AM
Yep, the last time I bought my DF a gift, he gave it to his new step-daughter.  And he even likes me enough! 
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Pen on April 21, 2012, 07:47:59 AM
Doe, that is too much. What are these people thinking? I can't even deal w/the step-sib situation...too painful.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: FAFE on April 21, 2012, 08:57:40 AM
My children can expect a paid for house and 2 paid for vehicles.  Anything over that will be gravy for them.  Not that I don't love them all, but I am going to spend as much as I can and do the things I enjoy.  But, one thing I have learned is that I will include my DIL & SIL in our wills if they are still married to my children.  Also, hope to leave the gc some college funds. 
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: artlady on April 21, 2012, 03:54:38 PM
Sounds like a plan, we do hope to leave things but at the same time be able to enjoy some retirement while we are able but want to enjoy these little ones while they are young . WE really want to get a RV and do lots of must site seeing in the USA but not so sure anymore with the gas like it is . I'm not so sure this generation will be leaving big inheritances like in the past as stock , investments and cost of living are so very differnet is is down right scary for some .
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: justanoldgrandma on June 01, 2012, 06:29:07 AM
When dh and I made out our will about 5 years ago (long overdue) we designated everything to our dss at our deaths.....my sibling asked, "That means you are leaving out your dil!"  We said, no, our ds can share whatever inheritance there is w her.....(I was surprised my her comment bc I'm not sure if their daughter's husband was included in their will......)

DH and I had no reason to not include the dil or to-be gc in the will; just figured dss would inherit and then share w their wives and children as that's the way we were accustomed to wills being done....

Well, so glad we didn't include dil in the will bc not after a disastrous marriage, ds and dil are divorced and I would hate to think that she would have inherited anything after costing our son (and us) an incredible amount of heartache and financial setbacks due to her addictions......

She is quite self-centered with little feeling for others, and I have no doubt would have gladly taken the money and run if we had died and she was in the will, even divorced from ds! 

Even though we had no clue that they were having such problems, you never know......of course dss can develop problems but we feel any inheritance can go to them if anything is left!  They can then share w wives and gc;

As for college money, our son makes more than we ever did, and is careful w money, so I have no doubt he'll save for their college; so, so far, we haven't set up a college fund for the gc.......dh and I put ourselves through school and took out loans (so did our dss); sometimes I think young people knowing they have a hefty college fund might discourage them from studying/working as hard as they should; 

Our sons worked hard bc they had to keep the grades up to keep their scholarships and worked bc we couldn't put them through school; they graduated w high honors; I know so many young people given all the money up front and not even graduating......

Any money we might put in a trust for the gc for college will be in our names or dss's names so that the kids can't spend the money for cars, etc.......(I've seen that happen!)  In fact, my dh's foo had a small college fund for our sons and in a way, I wish they hadn't known the money was there; thank goodness they knew it wouldn't put them through college alone; I'd prefer the money being directly sent to the college for tuition after h.s. graduation, etc........I know this all sounds pessimistic, but have seen too much of this happen!
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: artlady on June 01, 2012, 07:17:27 AM
I agree , that is how my parents wrote their wills by leaving to their children by passing any dil or sil and let their ac decide if they wanted to share or not . So this was to avoid the problem of if there was any divorces etc down the road. Everything had been passed that way for a very long time , things had and have been in the family for a long time and no one wanted it to go elsewhere. Our wills are the same way and hopefully things will be fine .
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Lillycache on June 01, 2012, 07:52:37 AM
Quote from: artlady on June 01, 2012, 07:17:27 AM
I agree , that is how my parents wrote their wills by leaving to their children by passing any dil or sil and let their ac decide if they wanted to share or not . So this was to avoid the problem of if there was any divorces etc down the road. Everything had been passed that way for a very long time , things had and have been in the family for a long time and no one wanted it to go elsewhere. Our wills are the same way and hopefully things will be fine .

I think it's pretty standard to leave your $$ to your heirs... ie children only.. and not mentioning their spouses.  It's up to your heirs if they want to share or not.  I don't believe that inheritance is considered marital property in case of divorce.  My friend just got divorced and her inheritance from her parents was hers and not split up with the other property.

Here's how my will is made out.  My 2 son's each get 50/50.  If Son #1 (who has no children) dies before me.. Son #2 gets his share.   If Son #2 dies before me (he has kids)  his share is divided up equally between his kids.  DIL is not mentioned except that she will be trustee if the kids are under 18.  Notice I am not leaving anything to the GKs if my son is still alive. My GKs are not my heirs.. they are his heirs.    HE will have to decide what he wants to do with the money.... pay for their college... or will it to them when he dies.  His decision.

Of course things could change down the road.  That's the beauty of Wills.  Codicils.   You can change them anytime you desire.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: luise.volta on June 01, 2012, 10:17:42 AM
A Memory comes to mind: I had an uncle who was unmarried. He left his estate to his sister to divide up as she saw fit and she did a beautiful job of it. His, other sister, my mom, had already passed and my sisters and I were given her share. I love things like that. They remind us of who we can be, if we're willing. :-)
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: justanoldgrandma on June 02, 2012, 06:47:13 AM
Many years ago gma (gpa was deceased) gave my df equal share of the will w the blessings of her other AC bc my df and dm lived closer than the other AC and my df was like a son to her; helping w her finances, housing arrangements, biweekly visits to make sure she was taken care of.  Gma really appreciated it; and dm would never have been able to do all that w/o my father.

My father was a generous man never expecting anything for his considerations....... he actually split all or most of his modest "inheritance", don't know, between my sibling and me as he didn't need the money and my dh and I were working hard to make ends meet; my father actually said, now you can get yourself a decent stove!

Since none of the gc had been in the will, we were surprised but that's the way my father wanted it to be and like Luise said, it is a good memory that my father and gma had helped us out when we needed it but didn't expect it.

Our dss aren't greedy guys; they tell dh and me to enjoy what we have and not worry about leaving anything to them; (although we are frugal people and aren't trying to spend what we have; and of course, by the time we pass, there may be nothing left anyway!)

I  really like when there is no expectation of inheritance.....my dh and I share our money, no matter where it came from.  But my bil is very money conscious and although he inherited some money, which I think he shares w his wife, resents his wife's spending her own inheritance on things for herself; not a good thing to have on your mind....
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Lillycache on June 02, 2012, 06:53:53 AM
I certainly don't intend to scrimp and scrap by in my retirement.  My DH and I will have all we need for our care and existance until the end. My kids will get what is left after we are done with it.  If there is any left after new plans for SS and Medicare in the works in DC.  Scarry!!!
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: luise.volta on June 02, 2012, 07:12:41 AM
The best I can do is leave no debts...and I'm committed to doing that. (If S.S. and Medicare don't kick me to the curb.)
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Lillycache on June 02, 2012, 08:06:20 AM
I'm really concerned about what they are doing to SS... But more concerned about Medicare.  Not sure what to think.  How will we get insurance with all our pre-existing conditions if we have to go to private companies for coverage?
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: luise.volta on June 02, 2012, 09:33:55 AM
If either one went South, I would be in serious trouble. Our savings are gone. A nursing home costs $75,600 a year!Here's hoping...
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: artlady on June 02, 2012, 10:12:32 AM
The outlook of SS and Medicare is very scary, semi retired and 2 years away from SS I'm not a happy camper about the outcome. I might keep this part time job for a long time . Just hope the state doesn't belly up as that will really blow my retirement . Our state is one of the top in retirement plans but nothing is protected from a bad economy.
Title: Re: any advice?
Post by: Elise on June 02, 2012, 12:08:46 PM
Just a point of law:  In Community property states, money left by will to someone is not community property unless it is commingled.  That means as long as the person who receives the inheritance keeps and can PROVE that the money received from the will was always and only in their name thereafter, in divorce the money will without division be awarded to the person who received it from the will.  If however it has ever been commingled ( for instance if heir buys a house and puts it in name of self and spouse) then it is part of community property and will be divided 50/50 in case of divorce unless spouse who did not directly inherit agrees to give it back to only the heir who it was left to. This is rare though does happen sometimes. If even a bank account the money might go into without being spent is in joint name, it is thereafter community property.  A lot of people do not find this out until divorce comes around. Heirs need to be aware of this in advance.  Lawyers often advise only to name our dc in the will to prevent the possibility of this, though it gives no control over what happens when we die.  We are not often in a position to judge the state of our DC's marriages anyway. Uncomfortable yet necessary conversations with our dc must be had in advance so they know this as well with divorce rates what they are - sort of the other end of the prenuptial agreements so common today among those with money to spare or from different economic situations.  Sad and real. Proof means keeping the paperwork showing  "chain of custody" of the money through documentation.  This alone can be a challenge unless very well organized and may last over many decades, which adds to the challenge.