WiseWomenUnite.com

Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: sunshine on December 08, 2012, 07:37:17 PM

Title: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: sunshine on December 08, 2012, 07:37:17 PM
Hello everyone!
I'm new here, and spent a lot of time reading through the posts before I registered. I like the feeling of warmth and support here, so I feel like this is a good place to ask my question.
Let me give you some background. I've been married for 18 years. My MIL has told us over and over that she will break us up. I just ignore her comments. My husband has no other family and I don't want to come between him and and his his mother, but she makes him upset with her comments. I just keep quiet. When her husband died, she moved in with us. My husband didn't like it, so he found her a place to live. My MIL blames me. Now she wants to see us every day. Before her husband died, we saw them 3-4 times a year. My husband told her we would see her 1-2 times a month. My MIL blames me. She said I am on drugs (I'm not), and she will take our child away. She said I am evil and am ruining my daughter's life, my husband's life, and trying to kill him, that I am going to leave him. None of this is true. I haven't had a cross word with her, she lived with us, I cooked and cleaned and did her laundry. I don't understand? We welcomed her into our home, and now she hates me? I tried to talk to her at Thanksgiving but she denied everything. Can this relationship be saved? What went wrong?
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: luise.volta on December 09, 2012, 11:08:34 AM
Welcome - This is a place you can call your cyber-home if it feels like a fit. My take is that we can never get into the mind or emotions of another to make sense to what appears senseless to us...(and I'm with you on this one.) We can't change others, either by doing something or not doing anything. I would guess that your MIL can't face, much less accept, her son's ability to hold his own. The whole thing has to be somebody's fault and it can't be hers or his. He is doing what he has to do and you and not taking the bait. I see that as the high road. Beyond that it seems to me that any improvement will have to come from your MIL. People do heal from loss...she may. And if and when she does, you are conducting yourself in such a manner that she can be welcomed back. I'm really impressed by that. But/and the ball is in her court. Sending love...
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: ImBack on December 10, 2012, 09:42:39 AM
Wow. Your MIL is a piece of work. I could never have a relationship with anyone who would actively try to destroy my marriage, and harm my child's family life. Sounds like you and your husband would benefit from marriage counseling.  Maybe individual counseling for him? Seems like his Mom has caused some real damage all around.

My MIL tried something similar to what your MIL is doing: our therapist called it the divide and conquer tactic: divide your marriage to get your husband "back" for herself. My husband cut ties with his Mom 7yrs ago.
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: Pen on December 10, 2012, 10:49:49 PM
Welcome, Sunshine. I'm sorry you're going through this but glad you found us. I agree with Luise that these are your MIL's issues and she will have to deal with them. You gave it a go; she blew it and lost out. Try to ignore her cruel speech and move on.

Welcome as well, ImBack.

Sunshine & ImBack, if you haven't already done so please take a moment to read the pink highlighted items under Open Me First on the home page. We ask this of all new members to make sure the site is a good fit. You'll find information regarding how this whole thing came about and our guiding principles.
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: sunshine on December 12, 2012, 03:00:45 AM
Thank you for your replies.
I think it's going to be very sad if my MIL doesn't stop saying these things to my husband. She isn't doing anything to break us up, and we've been happily married for a long time. By that, I mean that her words do not hurt us, they only hurt her. I'm just letting my husband deal with it and she isn't saying anything to me. Sometimes she doesn't speak to me at all. My husband doesn't want to be around her very much because of it.
What I hope is that she will get past this and at this point I am willing to give her some time, not get into a fight about it. There is a change, not with us, with her. Obviously, after so many years, this has not been a hate-filled relationship and I have a lot of concern for her feelings, as unwarranted as they may be. Not sympathy, just concern.
My sympathy is for my husband. I am just at a loss as to how to handle this. I am stuck and confused.
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: Pen on December 12, 2012, 06:22:32 AM
Sunshine, so your MIL's behavior is fairly recent? Do you suspect a physical/mental issue that should be addressed by a professional? How long has it been since she's had a check-up?
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: sunshine on December 16, 2012, 06:50:11 AM
Hi Pen,
Yes, right away, I did suspect a physical reason for my MIL changing her behavior towards me. I really couldn't convince my husband because he thought everything else was the same and why wouldn't that change? Now he sees some new things going on, like she says very strange things, needs help with tasks that are very easy because now she doesn't know how to do them. I have been concerned. My husband asked her to go for a physical during the summer but she responded with a lot of anger and didn't understand. She thinks if she isn't sick it is a waste of money to get a check-up.
It's hard to stand by and watch this going on. My MIL does not think I care about her, so I can't speak to her. My husband thinks I am making excuses for her.
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: Pen on December 16, 2012, 07:24:29 AM
Sunshine, I hope you can find a way for someone to gently guide her towards getting a checkup. I'm sure you've already researched resources for older people in her area. Perhaps there's an agency that is equipped to help with this very delicate but necessary reality check for your MIL. You're a great DIL even if your MIL can't appreciate your concern and care right now.
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: sunshine on December 17, 2012, 03:09:30 AM
Pen,
Thank you. I haven't looked into anything, it didn't even cross my mind! I guess my frame of mind has been that we are here to take care of my MIL, services are for people who do not have family around? She does not need too much help right now. She does not cook at all and does light cleaning. My husband checks on her, makes sure she has food, everything she needs.
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: Pen on December 17, 2012, 06:59:48 PM
Caregivers can easily burn out. Not only is there often help for the person needing care, the caregivers can sometimes get respite as well. Take advantage of whatever is available - you'll be a better caregiver if you have a little backup every now & then :)

If your MIL is ever diagnosed with something that requires nursing care, check to see it there's a PACE program in your community. It allows people to stay in their homes while the nursing comes to them, rather than moving into a facility. It's been found to be less expensive and better for the patient to stay in familiar surroundings. Funding comes from public & private sources, I believe.
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: luise.volta on December 17, 2012, 07:26:54 PM
Yes, and there's more information on PACE on my other site: www.AgingWithWisdom.com.  Sending love...
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: Keys Girl on December 17, 2012, 08:36:54 PM
Sunshine, looks like you pulled the short straw when it came to MILs, here are my suggestions.

Quote from: sunshine on December 08, 2012, 07:37:17 PM
Now she wants to see us every day. No.  Every day is for someone who is getting paid for spending time with her.  That would be a nurse or companion at her expense, of course.  You have a life to live, so putting it on hold to babysit the "Misery Loves Company" Dept. shouldn't be an option unless you want it to be.

What went wrong? Her husband has died.  The equation of her life has evaporated, he was likely her major source of companionship as well as someone that she could blame for everything (I'm guessing) or listen to her litany of complaints for everyone else she blames (I'm guessing).  She lost her spouse and now you've gone up the line to #1 scapegoat. (I'm guessing)

I would suggest grief counselling for her but if she doesn't cooperate (I doubt that she would, in my experience miserably unhappy people don't really want to get happy and it's impossible to reverse a lifetime of pointing the finger at everyone else).

I would follow through on your husband's commitment to spend more time with her than you have in the past but not a minute more.

If she gives you any more of the "Blame" game, stand up and leave IMMEDIATELY.  Don't see her again for at least 30 days.  The next time she says "She will break you up", get up and leave, IMMEDIATELY.  Don't see her again for at least 30 days.  She may not change her ways but at least that will give you 30 days of peace and quiet.

I don't know why you would want to save this relationship, listening to someone say they will break up their marriage for 18 years sounds pretty miserable to me.  Being bold and brazen enough to tell you that to their face is indicative that she has no respect for you, (or anyone else likely) IMHO. 

Smart move of your husband to move her out of the house.  If circumstances deteriorate don't forget to remind her that the option to move (her or you) out of state without identifying which one to her is always open. 

She's been bold and brazen for a lot of years, and now that she's a widow she'll be even more angry, afraid, hostile so she'll try to get everyone to drop their own lives to accommodate her so she can control everyone's lives.  IMHO.

Good luck,
KG
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: Monroe on December 17, 2012, 09:41:48 PM
Quote from: sunshine on December 17, 2012, 03:09:30 AM
Pen,
Thank you. I haven't looked into anything, it didn't even cross my mind! I guess my frame of mind has been that we are here to take care of my MIL, services are for people who do not have family around? She does not need too much help right now. She does not cook at all and does light cleaning. My husband checks on her, makes sure she has food, everything she needs.

Sunshine - I'm with Pen - it sounds like she needs a thorough check-up.  Such an abrupt personality change could be a sign of dementia.  Dementia is not simply forgetfulness - it also includes things like personality change, becoming more hostile.  If I understand correctly, you had an acceptable relationship with her for much of your marriage -- it's only now, after her husband died and she's quite a bit older that she is doing these strange things and being very hostile to you?  I would make sure you take her to a doctor that specializes in aging issues - dementia is progressive, but there could be some medications that could improve her quality of life. 
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: sunshine on December 20, 2012, 03:23:39 AM
Thank you for your replies.
Since my last post, my MIL fell and injured her hand while out eating at a restaurant. She insists she was pushed but can't describe what happened. We think she just fell. We were sorry she fell, but thought a visit to the doctor would be good.
This is her version of how it went. When she arrived they did her vital signs and her BP was high. Before she could get her X-ray, the doctor wanted to speak to her about BP medication. My MIL became angry and refused to discuss it. She ended up walking out of the clinic without getting her hand treated.
I asked my husband to call the doctor but his mother won't tell him where she went. My husband thinks her hand is fine, she just has a bruise and is using her hand without any trouble.
I think she will fall again so I told my husband to tell her if anything like that happens again, call him and he will take her to the doctor.
I know he should not be at her beck and call but at least he can try to get her checked out if he is there. We both wondered if the doctor started asking too many questions and that's why she left.
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: Pooh on December 20, 2012, 11:45:18 AM
Welcome sunshine.  I'm playing catchup but it does sound like their is something up with MIL.  Dementia can also cause paranoia as well (like thinking someone pushed her) so I agree that she definitely needs to have a doctor check her out.  I know you guys are doing everything you can think of but if you have a trusted Doctor, maybe you or hubby can call and talk to them about how best to get her to a doctor?
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: Monroe on December 21, 2012, 06:43:16 AM
Sunshine - And I'm thinking not just any old doctor.  I think she needs to see a geriatric specialist - and that your husband needs to have a conversation with the doctor's office AHEAD of the visit - so they can check out more than just the ailment of the day.  Maybe her general practitioner knows what tests to run - or he/she might refer you/her to someone else

I don't know what tests they do, I just know that I was in a similar situation with my mother.  The loving woman I had known for decades had turned angry and hostile towards the world - but towards me in particular.  I couldn't talk with her - she was unreasonable to the extreme.  Unfortunately since everyone else in my family defines dementia solely as losing memory  (they don't realize that the hostility and personality change are also symptoms) - I was unable to garner family support for a full check-up with a geriatric specialist.  But the outside experts I talked with recommended such. 

But I would get your husband involved - have him have a very candid conversation with the doctor's office about the personality change (sign of dementia) that has happened - so they have a heads-up to address the bigger picture - not just the injured hand or whatever minor physical injury happens next. 

Best wishes - I have walked a mile in your shoes.  And my feet hurt!   
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: JaneF on December 21, 2012, 08:28:52 AM
Welcome!  Sorry you had the need for a group such as ours, but there are wonderful, wise ladies here who have great advice.  I am not a doctor, or a nurse.  I am only speaking of my personal experience with these changes in behavior etc.  My mother in law has always been a bit strange from my husbands point of view  ;D, but several years ago she began behaving much like you describe (such as doctors and secrecy etc).  She got paranoid and honestly, just nasty!  Especially to me.  I was shocked because I was the one who helped her since we were closest.  Doctors appointments, medical tests, taking care of her after surgery etc.  We found out there is a diagnosis of dementia, although she denies this still.  I don't know about your mother in law, but I am hoping she can see a geriatric specialist and get a good check up.  If she is aware she might have an issue though she will possibly refuse...been there, done that.  If she does go to one, she may deny any news she does not want to accept.  I have seen that with a friends mother in law.  If there is nothing wrong and she is just being not nice, if you will, that is another issue all together!  Hope you can figure out the problem.  J
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: luise.volta on December 21, 2012, 08:30:51 AM
S - I've been following your thread and the wonderful feed back here. I'm 85 and my peers range from 75 to 95. I've seen a great deal of what you are describing and it seems to me that the most lethal stumbling block is the Senior's resistance to and blocking of any input from her concerned and caring Adult Children.

We were once in charge. Our identity is wrapped up in knowing what needs to be done for our kids and doing it. Many of us carry that responsibility into our aging process...still seeing our adult children as "big kids" and in need of our counsel. If and when it dawns on some of us that they are fine and can take really good care of themselves...the farthest many of us are able to evolve is to see them as equals. Often, we still secretly hold the deep belief that we know best. How could we not?

The concept that our AC are concerned about us, can see something that we aren't aware of and should be "permitted" to act in our best interest is untenable. The underlying reaction is shock and then terror. Behind that is often rage. It's like being demoted from wise and all-knowing to dependent and inconsequential. It doesn't feel like love. It feels patronizing and highly dangerous to our very existence. None of this is true, of course. However, there is eventually, if we live long enough a shift in the balance of power and in the authority between us and we are never ready for it. No matter how well meant and subtle, it looks like the beginning of the end to us. For an example: I just gave up driving and sold my car when I saw my driving skills deteriorating. I honestly have no idea how long I would have stayed on the road, a threat to man and beast, if my son had suggested I needed to hang up my keys.

The only solution I have seen work in situations like you are facing is for the AC to work through a close peer of the parent who is in acute need of guidance. If a capable peer can be enlisted to approach your MIL with compassion and is diplomatic enough to be able to discuss her symptoms with her, she may be able to help her seek diagnosis and care. Your MIL is part of a large population of Seniors who are not yet "legally incompetent" but who are no longer able to consistently act in their own best interest. Left to their own devices, they can wreck havoc in their own lives by means of self-neglect (denial) and in the lives of those who love them most. In this instance, changes in personality and perception probably look like they are externally caused and she would be just fine..."if." My heart goes out to you all.



Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: JaneF on December 21, 2012, 01:47:49 PM
Luise...well said!   You are indeed a wise woman.  That post was so awesome, and it gave me food for thought.  Thanks!  Happy Holidays to you.  J
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: luise.volta on December 21, 2012, 02:29:01 PM
You're welcome. Sending love...
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: sunshine on December 22, 2012, 07:58:31 AM
Luise,
Thank you so much. I hope what you wrote helps other readers understand why I don't just throw my hands up and walk away. Why I don't barge into my MIL's home and demand she see a doctor, or "get help," or something similar. She is going through something very terrible. Yes, it hard for us, but for her, everything is difficult. "We" are difficult, finding things, doing things, living the way she is used to, that is all diminishing for her.
You really opened my eyes explaining the role reversal. I never thought about that. We think, "We care about you and are worried about this," and my MIL may be thinking, "You are telling me what to do and I am the parent here."
I need to share that with my husband and he needs to tread softly.
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: luise.volta on December 22, 2012, 09:35:52 AM
S - You're welcome. I am on the threshold of 86 and may view it differently than most. I am currently writing a piece  on experiencing my own diminishing driving skills and taking myself off the road while, at the same time, watching my memory issues increase and noting how that impacts my life (and thus the lives of others.) So far, I'm still a happy camper...
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: sunshine on December 23, 2012, 05:46:54 AM
Thank you to everyone else who replied!
To reply to a few specific things, my MIL does not have a GP, or a doctor, at all. When she moved here and needed a dentist, she wouldn't see one here in her new town. She traveled to her old town and stayed for two days, in a hotel, to see her old dentist. We tried to refer her to several dentists in our area. We know them well. It was her choice, we didn't push it, but her decline has been so rapid, I doubt she can make a trip like that again. My MIL agreed that she probably won't see her dentist again and hopes she never needs dental care. So she won't get a cleaning or a check-up.
In her old town, she went to an urgent care if she was very sick. She never saw the same doctor. There just isn't anyone to call here yet, she doesn't have a GP or any other kind of doctor.
I will keep all of your advice in mind, and I do feel better knowing that at some point we can take action to help her, but sad it is going to take another fall or an illness. I'm not going to take her behavior towards me personally, just give her space and let my husband try to help her. Maybe at some point it will stop. Right now I can't be around her like I want to be, just be a family.
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: Pen on December 23, 2012, 09:17:22 AM
Sunshine, my heart goes out to you, your DH, and your MIL. Caregiving, especially when the person needing care is resistant, is really hard. I have an "intellectually disabled" adult daughter who keeps us on our toes, even more so at the holidays. I love her dearly, but sometimes I don't want to be around her when her behavior is flaring up. It's hard to think about my sweet little baby girl being an adult with her own rough road to travel, but that's the truth - I can't "walk that lonesome valley" for her; all I can do is advocate when I can & offer succor along the way if she chooses to accept it (I finally understand this after almost 30 years!) Your MIL's journey is her own as well. Obviously you & your DH will make sure she's comfortable, as I do with my DDD. Take care!
Title: Re: Would love some MIL advice
Post by: luise.volta on December 23, 2012, 11:11:53 AM
P - I think about that, walking one's path alone, when I visit my 101 year old DH in our campus nursing facility. I can be there even though he no longer knows me but it is his final journey. Thank you for reminding me that I am on my own...and...can perhaps learn something that will help me when I head farther down that trail. Sending love...