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Problem Solving => Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters => Topic started by: freespirit on August 13, 2014, 03:10:04 AM

Title: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: freespirit on August 13, 2014, 03:10:04 AM

One of the reasons I visit a site like this is because I really don't have an outlet in my private life. My friends  are so happy, have wonderful families and spouses, and when everything  appears, at  least from the outside, as story book perfect relationships,...I have problems opening up to them and  telling them how much I hurt.

In my case, my husband is not my confidant. It seems whenever I open up to him, reveal my sadness...he says the wrong thing every time. He always makes it worse. He has no compassion whatsoever.

For example: This weekend, my son planned to spend an overnight, because he had some business to attend to in our area. I was so happy to have him over, and simply have a good time with him.  Well it didn't take 10 minutes.., when all hell broke loose and he  fled from our home, slamming the front door behind him.

It was a total stupid misunderstanding on his part.  It was about the fact that we were invited to his house two days ago. It's a three hour drive...strenuous, because of all the traffic. Anyway, after just 40 minutes,  he asked us to leave, because  their new born baby was crying,  and  he said it was because  too many people were there....whatever.....So, we told him we understand, and climbed back into the car, to fight our way back through the traffic.  Okay that's the background...  now  fast forward, our son is sitting at our kitchen table digging into the pizza, when he  said it was good that we had left. (others with loud children left as well, ...but that's beside the point.)  Anyway I agreed, saying it was probably too soon to have so many visitors over, and that  his wife  may  also need more quiet. I then said, it's a shame that they live so far away, because spontaneous visits  aren't really possible. After all, for us, it's a long car drive. With that... my son started yelling at me, telling  me I'm egotistical, and what do I expect...him to move closer or something! All the while...my husband sat there and nodded in agreement, rolling his eyes, and confirming my son's statements.

I couldn't believe how he misunderstood me. I was simply stating a fact, that the distance was too far for short visits. That's all.

Well with a huff, he packed his pizza, and was gone.

And my husband?  After our son left, my husband got on me, accusing me of not keeping my mouth shut!

I have so had it.  What is with these men? They have totally misinterpreted my comment. And despite all my protests and trying to explain, which is ridiculous and demeaning, but I did.... Despite that, .... it landed on deaf ears. I am having a very hard time forgiving my husband for taking sides with our son. This isn't the first time;..it's the thousandth  time. I'm so tired of forgiving and moving on... I'm depleted.

So, I am venting to you again,...because putting this in print, and re-reading it... simply  is good for my soul. It is an outlet, and I thank you for listening.
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: jdtm on August 13, 2014, 05:28:55 AM
QuoteI then said, it's a shame that they live so far away, because spontaneous visits  aren't really possible.

I get your anguish and I get their mixed feelings.  What I have found (and I have two adults sons with families) is that they really don't like "spontaneous visits" even though the "other side" gets them.  The rules are different when the adult married child is a son (no one told me this; I had to figure it out on my own).  Frankly, I think you are lucky that you live so far away - we miss them more because of distance, but at least, we are less likely to "pop in" and cause trouble.  Because I have found (in my situation anyway), "popping in" was always a recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Stilllearning on August 13, 2014, 05:49:25 AM
Freespirit, just for fun let's suppose that you did ask him to move closer.  Would a normally balanced adult have packed up his stuff and left?  Would he have yelled and called you egotistical?  I think not.  Your son overreacted most likely out of guilt and your DH condoned it.  You should be really irritated at them both and you should tell them both that until they are willing to talk calmly and listen to what you say you don't want to talk to them.

Then you start spending your time making yourself happy!  Stop trying to 'fix' the problem because it is not your to 'fix', it is theirs!  So the real question right now is.....What do you really enjoy and how soon can you enjoy it? 
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Lillycache on August 13, 2014, 06:31:37 AM
I have nothing to add that you do not already know.   Your son behaved like a toddler, and your husband like Benedict Arnold.   It's frustrating when you say something in innocent conversation and it's turned and twisted into something not intended at all, especially when someone refuses to listen to the explanation.  Not much you could have done about it though...  It seems your son was looking for anything at all that he could "take" the wrong way.  You could have told him the sky was blue and that would have set him off.     IMO... there is no excuse for how your husband behaved.  He's the one I would be super angry at.  But as you said.. it's a pattern with him.  You could make him suffer for it.. but why bother if he's only going to do it again and again.   Me..  I think I'd figure some way to put the screws to him... but that's just me.
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: freespirit on August 13, 2014, 06:36:35 AM
Jdtm, what I had meant by "spontanious visits"- I admit that was the wrong  word...I meant short visits. I just  don't think a 40 minute visit is worth a 3 hour  car drive. My other son lives only  10  minutes from us, but I would never think of just stopping by.  Besides, they usually come to us, since our  house is sort of the meeting place for family.

Still learning...yes you're right.  My son has some  issues, and I think I'm the scape goat, as usual. You know, it doesn't even bother me that much anymore. I've gotten used to his behavior, ( how sad is that.).  But I  just can't get used  to my  husband's wimpy ways, trying to side with our son, not considering how that makes me feel. And when I confront him, he puts on his Mr. guiltless face, and never ever admits that he takes sides. Ugh.

Lilly, what do you mean when you say, put the screws to him...as in ...? Thank you  for understanding me.  This feels so good, I can hardly believe it.  I know there are loving compasionate men  out there. It just so happens  they aren't in my life.  :(

I  am trying to make myself happy. But I still am happiest when everything  is harmonious.  Who isn't? It's just such a lousy waste of time, all these stupid sad  and disappointed feelings. I feel the older we get, the more precious time is,...and it is sheer time robbery to make another person miserable... . Yes, Stilllearning, I'm  investing  my time in things I love to do...Thank God for  our hobbies and outside interests. They can be such  life savers.

Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Lillycache on August 13, 2014, 06:44:45 AM
That's just an expression to mean... "get even"..  Figure out some way to get my point across..  It's a figurative expression, not literal.   As in "Make him Pay"...    Like I said.. that's just me. 
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: freespirit on August 13, 2014, 07:16:07 AM
Oh, okay... mind was in a fog. I need to hear from my husband that he's sorry. I need to hear him admit his behavior. He won't, though.  And I don't quite understand myself, why it's so important to me. I wish it weren't so.  I think I'm realizing that  I'm simply not important enough to him. It's so against my own character if it were the other way around. If my son  verbally attacked  his father, I would  speak up, I would help my husband.  I just miss that so very much in my marriage.  I really don't know what to do.
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Lillycache on August 13, 2014, 07:47:39 AM
Quote from: freespirit on August 13, 2014, 07:16:07 AM
Oh, okay... mind was in a fog. I need to hear from my husband that he's sorry. I need to hear him admit his behavior. He won't, though.  And I don't quite understand myself, why it's so important to me. I wish it weren't so.  I think I'm realizing that  I'm simply not important enough to him. It's so against my own character if it were the other way around. If my son  verbally attacked  his father, I would  speak up, I would help my husband.  I just miss that so very much in my marriage.  I really don't know what to do.

Of course it's important to you!!  Our spouse is supposed to be the one person on this earth that will be on our side.. no matter what.  It's the vows we take.. right?    I completely understand..  and he DOES owe you an apology for not standing up for you.     The one piece of advice my Grandma gave me when I was getting married was to always put on a united front and to never embarass your spouse in public.  No matter how wrong you think they are, you stick up for them.. or at least defend them from attacks..   It took me 3 marriages to find a husband that would do that.  I have one now.. he is worth his weight in gold IMO.   
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Stilllearning on August 13, 2014, 08:08:28 AM
I can tell that you are very angry at your DH, and rightly so!!  Still, the first thing you need to do for yourself is unload that anger.  Find a place and a time when you can yell and do it!  Yell at the world, beat a pillow or something.  It is TOTALLY UNFAIR that you are in this position!  You deserve to be treated better!  Get ALL  of those negative feelings out! 

Once you have done that, then you will be able to see things objectively.  You have made your DH and DS believe that you cannot live without them.  Whose fault is that?  Is it true?  Do they bring joy into your life?  Are they actually making you happy? What you focus on expands, so focus on the things in your life that bring you happiness.  If your DH and DS are in that group of thing great.  If they are not my bet is that they will sense the change in you and manage to realign themselves so that they are in that group.  At any rate, the point is that life is too short to spend it trying to make other people appreciate you, they either do or they don't.  If they don't then hang around people who do.  Period.
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Pooh on August 13, 2014, 08:29:13 AM
If someone is just waiting for you to say something, that they can turn around for their benefit, then you can bet it will not take long for "something" to come out of your mouth for them to use.  Unfortunately, you are in a no-win with him right now.  You did as he asked (leaving) and then you're still the bad guy.  If your DH is not going to have your back, then really, all you can do is let go and start doing good things for yourself.  Easier said than done, but surprisingly, once you start doing that...the stress and issues take a back seat.

Do something nice for yourself today.
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Pooh on August 13, 2014, 08:30:09 AM
P.S.

Don't be surprised if your friends are also having issues.  Maybe not the same things, but people put on a good front in public.
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Lillycache on August 13, 2014, 08:38:37 AM
Quote from: Pooh on August 13, 2014, 08:29:13 AM
If someone is just waiting for you to say something, that they can turn around for their benefit, then you can bet it will not take long for "something" to come out of your mouth for them to use. 

NO truer words Pooh.   If someone has already determined that you are the Bad Guy, there's really no telling what silly thing they will use against you.   It's like being invited to play a game and not given the rule book.  Then being penalized for breaking a rule you had no knowledge of.   My DIL tried that silly game with me.. and I removed myself from her playground.  Sometimes you just have to do that...because you are never going to win.
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: luise.volta on August 13, 2014, 08:57:05 AM
FS - I have read this thread all the way through and what I have felt is the loneliness of you being set up, misunderstood, and blamed for the shortcomings of others. The patterns seem well established and my concept is that some kind of subtle abuse is in place.

I wouldn't venture into getting even on any level...it just keeps the 'game' going.

I'm glad you shared with us and I agree that your friends may not live in happily-ever-after, since I doubt there is such a place. Life is a roller coaster...not a fairytale.

I agree with everyone else that your answer is in making your life what you want it to be over, under, around and through what the malefaction has set up, which is to belittle you.

Sending hugs...
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: freespirit on August 13, 2014, 11:51:43 AM
I feel so understood. I can't tell you all what that means to me. Wait,  yes, I can.. I feel lighter.

Lilly, I totally agree with your grandmother's advice. That's why it tears me apart, that my husband doesn't  agree with it.  It took you 3 marriages? Well...maybe  there is hope for me after all.

Stilllearning, I will unload my anger,  or it will eat me  up. I just want to wait another day, because the last thing I want to do is cry . I want to lay down the facts in a cool and calm way, and I'm going to give my husband a choice. Either  he sticks up for me, or I'm gone. And sticking up for me entails him contacting our son and  telling him  we won't tolerate his behavior  anymore.   
Do you know that famous quote that Robin Williams said?
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to end up all alone, it's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people that make you feel all alone." 

Pooh, I know. I've been living in this no-win situation way too long. I have created my own little world a long time ago; my world of escape. I write novels. But  it's  just not enough.  We'll see how my husband  reacts to my talk tomorrow.

Luise, I'm so glad I shared too. I  used to think my friends must have some secret problems too, but oddly enough,  when I approached them with mine,  I usually got to hear -- I don't  have that problem... it could be the mentality here, in the country that I live in. Anyway, there were too many awkward situations. So now I just don't want to expose myself like that anymore. I miss America, and people with  big hearts,..hearts like  in this forum.
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Miss Understood on August 13, 2014, 12:22:37 PM
Freespirit...wow! Are you sure you and I don't have the same husband???  :D
I know how you feel...truthfully though...Your Son has an issue and maybe just looking for a fight. I didn't see this (4 years ago) before my DS cut me off. I just thought he was under stress. A rational person, let alone a respectful person would have appreciated your long drive over and not making an ordeal about leaving after such a short visit. Where is the gratefulness? So...Believe in yourself that you weren't trying to make a point to hurt or manipulate him, asking him to move closer, just making conversation and move past this. Nothing will change until your DS wants to show respect and understanding. You DH on the other hand...you know how he is and mine is exactly the same...I just verbal vomit and cry on shoulders of my friends, this place and on my knees a lot. I am not going to get the support from my DH that I need. Sometimes just a hug and "I'm sorry, you must feel hurt, but I love you" is all I need...I get the you should have just kept quiet too. Though when I do keep quiet I get hounded by everyone why I'm quiet...so I can't win...BUT, I DON'T WANT TO WIN! I just want to be me.
I've developed the attitude, "If you can't hack it, grab your jacket and don't let the screen door hit you on the way out!"
I'm sorry....I do believe your DS has some battles of his own to deal with and you just ended up in the cross fire. And yes...Your friends have the same problems. Recently an acquaintance that I thought had the perfect life ran into me (on a good spirit day for me, I might add) she mentioned that she was not having a good day...then it spilled out... her perfect life wasn't near perfect and not even near functional. We all have our skeletons in the closet and us who aren't afraid to be honest about them are the ones that learn to live healthy through the storms.
This too...shall pass! Keep your chin up!
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: freespirit on August 13, 2014, 01:20:23 PM
Good grief,...Miss Understood, are there more of that  kind???

I'm afraid you're  right about my son.  Something  is wrong with him, but he  won't let anyone get close enough to help him or  find out what it is.  I wish it were  different,  but,  the main  thing is,..I have  learned not to let his behavior upset me as much as it used to. I'm more upset with my husband's behavior.

......Men......  :P.......that's all I can say  right now.

I'm  exhausted, going to call it a night here -- on the other side of the pond. Honestly... being pissed  off is more exhausting than  marathon racing,  ( not that I've ever done that ..just sayin').  I feel, though, that  I'm back in the saddle, I'm holding the reigns, thanks to you gals.  :-*

Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: FAFE on August 13, 2014, 03:03:05 PM
I hate that you are having to go thru all this stuff with your son, especially that your husband does not support you.  My husband got a little taste of being on the wrong side the other day.  Our son is one of those that we can never do anything good enough for them.  Son and his family were here last week and son and DIL do their own thing and we entertained our grandson.  I had something I had to do one of those days and suggested to my husband that he and GS get his school supply list and go purchase whatever he needed for school.  Well, $60 or so later, GS was showing his dad and mom what they had gotten.  The ONLY thing on the list that was not the EXACT item was a calculator.  My husband is a scientist of a sort and determined that the one in stock was fine.  Son had a fit and said he would probably have to go out and get the other one.  Not, thank you, if that doesn't work we'll get the other one.  Husband did not like that attitude at all!

I can definitely relate and I've pushed way back in what I do or say for whatever it is worth.  Raising kids are not for sissies and dealing with them as they get older are definitely not fun.
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Stilllearning on August 13, 2014, 03:39:32 PM
Fafe, I can't help but wonder what your son would have said if your DH had said "We will just take the cost of the calculator off of the total you owe me and I will keep the calculator"?????
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: FAFE on August 13, 2014, 04:05:33 PM
We intended to buy all his school supplies, it was just disrespectful to not be appreciative that we did it at all.  DIL, was very thankful.
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: freespirit on August 14, 2014, 03:38:26 AM
Thanks Fafe. Ungrateful...that's what they are... (They should write a  song about that). I think I would have told my son, right in his face, how ungrateful he is. It's incredible...We weren't like that, were we? I was  grateful for every little thing my parents did for me. What did our parents do differently?  I wonder. 

Well the latest news update in;...When the stomach turns.... is -- I  told my husband, without crying (patting myself on  the back  here),  that I rather live alone, and deal with problems alone, then  be burdened by his silent  presence,  and even worse, him taking sides against me. Well, in reply, he sent our son an email, telling him he wants to meet up with him and have a man to man talk. He then swore that he would never react  like that again.
Only time will tell, but I saw in his eyes, that he is taking me seriously, probably for the first time ever. I pray it will remain so.
This morning got an email  from our son. He just doesn't get it.  All he did was rehash how he thought I meant it, without acknowledging that  he  totally misunderstood me. Oh well...I need  a  time out. Breathe deeply... that's really what it's all about, right? Breathing and letting go...
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Stilllearning on August 14, 2014, 04:13:43 AM
Congrats on getting your DH's attention!  Now let him get your DS's. 

Turn your mind to happier things.  Enjoy your day!!  Hugs!!!!
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Sarah on August 14, 2014, 05:46:28 AM
Free - I'm glad you stuck up for yourself.  Would it be possible to have a relationship with your son without your husband?  Could you visit them alone?  Maybe offer some babysitting if they need it for a few hours?  Maybe being there alone without your husband would take a lot of pressure off of both you and the son.  Just a suggestion.  I think you are handling this really well.  ((hugs))
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Lillycache on August 14, 2014, 06:31:34 AM
Quote from: Sarah on August 14, 2014, 05:46:28 AM
Free - I'm glad you stuck up for yourself.  Would it be possible to have a relationship with your son without your husband?  Could you visit them alone?  Maybe offer some babysitting if they need it for a few hours?  Maybe being there alone without your husband would take a lot of pressure off of both you and the son.  Just a suggestion.  I think you are handling this really well.  ((hugs))

My question is.. Who would want time alone with someone who behaves like her DS anyway?  I sure wouldn't.  Free.. Good for you for letting your husband know where you stand.  Obviously you did it in a way that caught his attention and made him think.   Let him handle DS..  IMO your son owes you an apology if for nothing else than being disrespectful.  I think if any of us talked to our parents like he did to you we wouldn't have had to storm off.. we would have been told to leave.. adult or not.  You deserve better. 
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: FAFE on August 14, 2014, 07:07:40 AM
I do hope you husband will stand his ground with your son!  Sounds like at least you've lit a fire under him.  No one should have to choose between their husband and children, but no one should have their wife's treated like that.  Hope this will be a win win for all.  Maybe you and hubby can plan a fantastic trip or vacation and let son bask in his own unhappiness.
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Stilllearning on August 14, 2014, 08:28:41 AM
Quote from: FAFE on August 14, 2014, 07:07:40 AM
  Maybe you and hubby can plan a fantastic trip or vacation and let son bask in his own unhappiness.


Sounds like a plan to me!! ;)
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Sarah on August 14, 2014, 08:31:20 AM
Quote from: Lillycache on August 14, 2014, 06:31:34 AM
Quote from: Sarah on August 14, 2014, 05:46:28 AM
Free - I'm glad you stuck up for yourself.  Would it be possible to have a relationship with your son without your husband?  Could you visit them alone?  Maybe offer some babysitting if they need it for a few hours?  Maybe being there alone without your husband would take a lot of pressure off of both you and the son.  Just a suggestion.  I think you are handling this really well.  ((hugs))

My question is.. Who would want time alone with someone who behaves like her DS anyway?  I sure wouldn't.  Free.. Good for you for letting your husband know where you stand.  Obviously you did it in a way that caught his attention and made him think.   Let him handle DS..  IMO your son owes you an apology if for nothing else than being disrespectful.  I think if any of us talked to our parents like he did to you we wouldn't have had to storm off.. we would have been told to leave.. adult or not.  You deserve better.

Hi Lilli - I said that because to me, reading this post, it sounds like the husband and son have some issues and husband is throwing free under the bus to a certain extent.  Perhaps things with the son would go smoother without dad around.  Free could smooth things over and continue to have a relationship with ds.  I was thinking take the triggers out of the relationship between father and son so its smoother for free.  If there is a way to salvage a r/s between the mom and son, that's always the way to go.   :)
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: freespirit on August 14, 2014, 10:22:03 AM
Stilllearning, did you hear my "HA"!  ;D? You are so right....we need to get away and just concentrate on us. We are planning on that, I hope, pretty soon.

Hi Sarah, thanks for your suggestions. I hope I'm handling it as best as I can.  As far as time alone with my DS,  I think Lilly answered that for me. I'm really not keen on that. Frankly...I'm simply looking forward to a time out. I believe my  son owes me an apology too,... but  grass would  grow on the moon before that would  ever happen.

I'm slowly but surely learning to find my own pleasures, without missing  or  needing my sons to provide good times for or with me. Sure grandchildren are connected to seeing my sons, ..and although I love them dearly, they aren't the core in my life either. I'm so glad I got to this independent place. I love this free feeling.
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: luise.volta on August 14, 2014, 10:34:09 AM
Reading through this thread I'm deeply touched. You are amazing women! Sending hugs...
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: Lillycache on August 14, 2014, 10:35:28 AM
QuoteI'm slowly but surely learning to find my own pleasures, without missing  or  needing my sons to provide good times for or with me. Sure grandchildren are connected to seeing my sons, ..and although I love them dearly, they aren't the core in my life either. I'm so glad I got to this independent place. I love this free feeling.

Good for you Free...  It takes a long time to get to that place, but once you do.. it IS freeing isn't it?   I think a common misconception some have is that a mother can be abused by her children and still come back begging for more.  This is just not true.   Eventually you begin to realize that the time, treasure and emotional outlay is totally disproportionate to the pleasure received.  In otherwords... it's just not worth it.     Of course we love our children.. of course we love our grandchildren, but more importantly, we want to feel we are a loved and valued part of an extended family.  If we don't get that feeling..... then what's the point of it?   When we begin to feel unloved and even disliked...and usually completely misunderstood.... my goodness.. who needs that?    A mothers love may be unbreakable, but a mothers "LIKE" is not.  You can love your grown kids... but you don't have to like them.. OR the way they treat you... and better yet... you don't have to put up with it.   
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: shiny on August 14, 2014, 05:02:01 PM
FreeS, my situation is not as dramatic as yours but somewhat similar.
In the past several years, my DS has become so quick to misunderstand many things that I say, and then flings cutting/sarcastic remarks towards me.
His impatience and lack of kindness/respect pierce my heart, b/c we've always had a close relationship, till he got married. He's not the same person that I used to know.
When I discuss his behavior with DH, he will say that I'm the one who is wrong for feeling/thinking/behaving the way I do. One good thing, though, is DH does NOT take DS side in front of him.

Lilly, your comment is spot on and therapeutic ... Thank you!
Yes, I love my son, but don't like the way he treats me at times.
Just this morning I was reminding myself that after they leave home and get on their own, they've been influenced by so many things: other people, circumstances, books, movies, music, etc., and as time passes, those particular things can produce a hardness in them.
Lately, I've been reminding myself that I deserve better treatment from all of my AC, and I'm slowly moving toward that place of loving him from a distance, that is, geographical, emotional and physical.
I realize that he is busy with a stressful job, a wife and small child, along with a recent health issue. And he doesn't have the time for us now. But all this does not give him a reason to be rude and inconsiderate...
Title: Re: A trivial misunderstanding
Post by: freespirit on August 17, 2014, 09:51:55 AM
Luise,  all these amazing women are gathered here under your wing.

Lilly, I couldn't have said that better  myself. A mother's love may be unbreakable, but a mothers "LIKE" is not.  It's a two way street:
YES!
We  can like someone, without loving the person.
And 
We can love someone, without liking the person, (at least at times.)
And THAT  makes the difference on  how well we can cope with our adult children's  selfish and rude behavior. 

Shiny, that's a good point. In fact, I believe many children are influenced more by their peers than their parents.

Meanwhile my son is being nice. ... sure I love him....but I'm very careful about liking him.