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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: musicnerd86 on May 05, 2011, 01:25:46 PM

Title: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: musicnerd86 on May 05, 2011, 01:25:46 PM
So, after visiting the site and reading through a few entries, I've decided to come to you lovely WW and get some help...

My DH and I have been married for 10 months and we had dated for 8 years (high school and college). Both sets of parents always treated us well and both sets were extremely happy when we announced our engagement. There had been a couple of rough interactions between our parents in the course of our dating; but, for the most part, we could all co-habitate and get along well enough to enjoy an evening together. This all changed when the wedding planning started.

When it came time to do the invitations, my husband and I decided to buy our own card stock and print our own invitations and use the saved money for the more expensive parts of the wedding. My mom helped us do up the invites and they turned out as we wanted them to. Before we sent them out, we showed FIL and MIL to get their opinion and show them what we came up with. MIL had a problem with the way she was referred to in the invites. The way we referred to both sets of parents was the traditional "Mr. and Mrs. ____" and she did not approve of being referred to as "Mrs. (Insert FIL's name here) and told  us that she had her own name and that it should appear that way. We took note  of her opinion and went to start printing them out and getting them ready. My husband and I wanted to follow etiquette and weren't sure how to handle this. My mom was letting us use her printer, so we explained what MIL had requested and got her opinion. What my mom suggested was to do up the invites on my MIL's list the way she wanted and leave the rest as they already were. We thought this was fair and that's what we did. 4 days later, my DH calls and is in near tears. He asks if I would put my mom on speaker phone so he could talk to us together. I get her and he proceeds to tell us that we accidentally sent her one of the "wrong" invites and that she was pissed. She was so angry that she not only made DH cry, but she was also yelling at my 19 year old SIL and her own DM, both of whom had received the "correct" invites. My mom tells DH that she feels horrible and wants to call and apologize for the mix up and sort things out. When she does call, my MIL basically tells my DM that she "just doesn't know if forgiveness is possible." My mom then promptly made a final apology and hung up the phone. The rehearsal and wedding went as well as could be expected, with the exception of our photos, but that's a different story.

Sorry for the long post, but Our DMs still don't get along though and we're concerned about what will happen when we have our first child (which will be in a year or so). My MIL doesn't think she behaved rudely to my DM and shouldn't have had to forgive her for the mistake. Please, WW, help!
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: LaurieS on May 05, 2011, 01:43:30 PM
It sounds like it's the trust issue that your fmil is having a hard time with.  Having two sets of invites might have been fine had everyone been upfront instead of looking sneaky.  I'm not saying that you were sneaking to appease everyone but that is how it most likely seemed to her.  Her anger, while maybe not totally justified is certainly understandable.

I feel sorry for your husband, he was really blindsided.

Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: luise.volta on May 05, 2011, 01:44:44 PM
Welcome - I would step back and let them work through it. They are adults...or need to learn to be. The more people involved in any dispute...the more complex the resolution. I would let them know that you simply aren't going to do this...and then stand firm. No Matter What! No exceptions!

Any and all complaints need to be forwarded so you aren't drawn again into triangulation. "No need to tell me this...tell her/him." Or "Sorry, I'm not going to attempt to follow this because it isn't any of my business. What else is going on with you?" And other comments like: "Please lets change the subject, you know I am not going to get into this, render any opinion at all or participate in any way."

You have started a new family unit...not a battlefield for parents to do the ego-dance. Your new family unit is about the two of you. You make up the rules...just like your respective parents once did, and the time to set boundaries is now. Sending love...
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: musicnerd86 on May 05, 2011, 01:47:18 PM
Thanks for the reply, Laurie :-)

We didn't know what else to do, because both sets of mothers would have seen a problem. My mother is very traditional and favors following etiquette for social occasions as this and I stated MIL's opinion on the matter. Looking back, what we did was sneaky and probably not the best thing to do in hindsight.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: musicnerd86 on May 05, 2011, 01:48:16 PM
Well put, Luise!
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: LaurieS on May 05, 2011, 01:50:33 PM
I don't know if I can agree with that... the last thing I think would be conducive to mending the relationship is telling them to take it up between themselves.  Yes music you have boundaries, but most likely overstepped your own boundaries when you tried to do what did not feel right to begin with.  I think it's up to you to speak up and accept responsibility for the partial name change.. Once again I do not feel that the two separate invitations was wrong, it was the fact that you were not upfront about it.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: LaurieS on May 05, 2011, 01:54:33 PM
Music.. I am in the same situation except my daughter is newly engaged.... she is going to have to work diligently to try and form a day and a union that works for  her and her future husband, and try to maintain a balance with their extended families.. not always easy.

The only advice I could really ofter her is to be up front.. if she does not like an idea, say so.. adults can handle that much.. invites, I suspect that dd will ask everyone how they would like to be presented on the invites and then she will proceed with what she thinks is best for her.

You're going to have to start a new topic of wedding talk... I may send my dd to you.. I'm about wedding talked out this week
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: lancaster lady on May 05, 2011, 02:23:58 PM
I was never shown the invites for my DS wedding which is in August , but received one last week !
My thought is , it's their day , mostly the brides in my case , I might not agree with all the arrangements , but it's not
for me to change things . I'm not the one getting married .
As it was 10 months ago , have things not moved on since then ? It's a long time to be hankering over a few invites .
I reckon you were trying to please both parties , a mountain has been made from a molehill .
Your DM has apologised , time for MIL to move on .

Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: pam1 on May 05, 2011, 02:40:13 PM
She wants attention, that's what I get from it.  What I noticed during my wedding planning and others that the superficial issue was never the issue, if that makes sense. 

Your MIL has to deal with being addressed improperly all the time and I bet she doesn't ring the sender up hooting and hollering.  I kept my own name and I'm used to people sending me stuff as Mrs. DH, even some of my own family does it.  I shake my head and move on, it happens too often to get really upset.

Something else was going on, she was putting on her Mama Bear suit, worried about losing her son, worried about being left out of the wedding etc. 

Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: LaurieS on May 05, 2011, 02:50:34 PM
Quote from: pam1 on May 05, 2011, 02:40:13 PM
She wants attention, that's what I get from it.  What I noticed during my wedding planning and others that the superficial issue was never the issue, if that makes sense. 

Your MIL has to deal with being addressed improperly all the time and I bet she doesn't ring the sender up hooting and hollering.  I kept my own name and I'm used to people sending me stuff as Mrs. DH, even some of my own family does it.  I shake my head and move on, it happens too often to get really upset.

Something else was going on, she was putting on her Mama Bear suit, worried about losing her son, worried about being left out of the wedding etc.

From what the op said I did not get that she was worried about losing her son or being left out... I thought she became insulted when she felt that there was a sneaky attempt to appease her without being upfront about the true events taking place.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: elsieshaye on May 05, 2011, 02:55:20 PM
Yes, but why hold on to that for 10+ months and turn it into a war?  Why not just say "hey, I'm kind of upset that you weren't more up front about how you were going to handle it", accept the apology and let it go?  I do understand having trust damaged, but am having trouble understanding the intensity of her response unless there's some other button that got pushed.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: pam1 on May 05, 2011, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: Laurie on May 05, 2011, 02:50:34 PM
Quote from: pam1 on May 05, 2011, 02:40:13 PM
She wants attention, that's what I get from it.  What I noticed during my wedding planning and others that the superficial issue was never the issue, if that makes sense. 

Your MIL has to deal with being addressed improperly all the time and I bet she doesn't ring the sender up hooting and hollering.  I kept my own name and I'm used to people sending me stuff as Mrs. DH, even some of my own family does it.  I shake my head and move on, it happens too often to get really upset.

Something else was going on, she was putting on her Mama Bear suit, worried about losing her son, worried about being left out of the wedding etc.

From what the op said I did not get that she was worried about losing her son or being left out... I thought she became insulted when she felt that there was a sneaky attempt to appease her without being upfront about the true events taking place.

Maybe, I just don't know many people nowadays who approve their invites through their Mom and MIL, it's a little much.  For me, there wouldn't be a cause for sneaking b/c well, who dictates their childrens invitations anymore? 
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: musicnerd86 on May 05, 2011, 03:09:31 PM
Thank you for the replies, ladies!

I'd like to clarify one thing. The only reason my DM was involved was because she is good at graphic design and helped us pick a font and design and helped with the phrasing. As I mentioned, she was raised by my GM to use etiquette and GM is serious about following Emily Post (not even joking; when my DM, aunt, 2 female cousins and I all turned 13, we got The Emily Post Guide to Etiquette for our birthdays). We didn't see the harm in following this format and that's what we decided to do. DH warned me that his DM would object to the phrasing, so that's why we asked her and FIL. Hindsight is always tricky and to this day, I'm not sure how I should have handled it. Her feathers would still have been ruffled, even if we had stuck with our guns.

Also, our mothers haven't exactly been chums. They've coexisted when needed, but never friendly since beginning. It started because when we started dating, DH was 6 months away from earning his Eagle Scout award. Even when we were still friends, he mentioned this to me and told me about how he was cutting some extra activities within scouts to focus on his final badges and project to finish. His mother took this as a sign that I was dragging him away from scouts; this got to a point where she was telling other adult leaders this as well. My brother was in another troop at the same time and word got around to my mom about this being said. That's where the animosity started.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: luise.volta on May 05, 2011, 03:11:57 PM
No easy to deal with.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: pam1 on May 05, 2011, 03:16:05 PM
musicnerd, you are so right about hindsight being 20/20.

I was taught that etiquette rules were to make everyone comfortable, I know most of the absolute rules.  The name rule isn't absolute, if you know how someone prefers to be addressed that is how you're supposed to address them.  It's not a broad rule and meant to be applied to everyone. 

I do think there are some who use etiquette rules as weapons when it was really meant to be used as a tool to make everyone comfortable. 
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: LaurieS on May 05, 2011, 03:19:43 PM
I see no reason not to have your mom or whoever you feel can help you with a project taking part.  And Pam I do agree that it's their wedding, but when you go to someone and ask.. is this ok with you and you give them an honest answer and then as the mil saw it behind the scene shenanigans started immediately trust and honestly became an issue. 

This is like real life, you do not ask if you do not want the answer.. and do not ask while saying hey I understand that this may be important to you and then when they can not give you the answer you were hoping for it all breaks loose.

But what I don't fully understand in this scenario is why is the brides mom taking the heat.. why didn't the bride say, this is how  "I"  decided to handle the situation... why did it ever become a mom vs mom thing. 
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: pam1 on May 05, 2011, 03:22:53 PM
I agree Laurie but with things like how people want to be addressed....MIL can't control everyone and that's the heart of the issue.  They took what she said, tried to make it right for her, which in and of itself is the right thing to do, but she was upset that they didn't do it for everyone.  It's a no win situation and one I think MIL could have prevented if she took a look around and said "it's not about me" 
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: LaurieS on May 05, 2011, 03:26:18 PM
yes or they could have said, this does not work for us bride/groom and let the feathers be a little ruffled.. as it turned out the approach left a little room for being an honest approach.

At least when you're being honest and upfront no one can feel that they were not worthy of your honesty.. when you are trying to blend two families that honesty goes a long way
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: pam1 on May 05, 2011, 03:30:23 PM
True but going out on a limb, I'm thinking it's not going to occur to a whole lot of people to feel that this is an issue where they need to be totally transparent. 
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: AnonymousDIL on May 05, 2011, 03:31:35 PM
Well, color me the "Evil DIL" lol I did NOT discuss the invitations with my MIL or my DM. Our parents names weren't on them anywhere. Why? Because they didn't give us a dime. (Not that we wanted any, but today's etiquette says only parents who are paying for the wedding go on the invitation.) We designed our own on cardstock as well. Got nothing but compliments for them. Come to think of it, the invitations were the only thing my MIL didn't complain about ROFL!

I'm sorry that this is stressing you out, BUT your DM and MIL are adults and it isn't your responsibility to fix this. Also, is it really that big of a deal if they don't get along? My MIL/DM simply "coexist." My DM can't stand my MIL. I don't see this as a problem. You don't have a child yet (a year or two away?). This could all work itself out long before a little one comes along and they need to go to b-day parties  together and that sort of thing. If you have apologized to MIL, let it go. (It is probably too late for an apology if you didn't yet).
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: LaurieS on May 05, 2011, 03:35:18 PM
you are an evil dil :)  I never saw the invites for my ds/dil wedding.. matter of fact I don't even know how they read.. I'd have to go and look at one to see... it hardly mattered to me really... I am not going to sweat the small stuff.

My dd will have financial contributions from sides of her family.. does that mean that whoever gives more gets a larger font? :)
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: musicnerd86 on May 05, 2011, 03:37:42 PM
I failed to mention in the OP that the reason my mom had to call her was because she rejected my call after I got off the phone with DH. I did apologize to MIL the next day about everything and made it clear that our intention was not to offend. She did forgive me and everything went well enough for everyone after that. I know I made a very stupid choice; but, things have more than calmed down overall and I am just getting advice to avoid more stupid choices when possible.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: AnonymousDIL on May 05, 2011, 03:38:17 PM
Yes, Laurie.... If you give enough, your name can take up the WHOLE thing!!! LOL
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: LaurieS on May 05, 2011, 03:40:57 PM
I was thinking that I might let their name take up the whole thing... I'd save a bundle :)

Ok music so you've gotten this all worked out lol.. good so  you did not really need us typing away like mad men :) 

Advice on how to avoid.. put yourself in their shoes every now and then and be honest
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: holliberri on May 05, 2011, 03:44:20 PM
Hi Music,

Welcome to the boards! I hope you have had a chance to read our Forum Agreement under "Open Me First." It sounds like the ladies have some good advice for you!

I do hope everyone in your family can move on, it seems silly now. Initially, though, I can understand MIL's hurt. My MIL goes by her middle name, not her first, and I needed to make sure that at the very least, the invitation reflected what her name was; it's a big part of her identity. MIL also made the request beforehand.

I also have a SIL who is from another country and she regards the married name as a form of ownership and takes offense when she is called by BIL's last name. I think she would react very similarly to your MIL. It absolutely is the bride's day and there are social etiquette things that can be followed, but I think that a parent's given name on an invitation should be as the parents like it before typical social etiquette norms are followed. IMHO.

When my DD/other children get married, I would be really hurt if I not only asked, but she called me something different than I normally go by the invite.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: musicnerd86 on May 05, 2011, 03:47:37 PM
Both of our mothers were set on how they were to be addressed and both sides did help contribute in a financial way, and we felt it appropriate to reflect that on the invites. Knowing that, I guess what I ultimately should have asked was, when is it ok to ruffle feathers?
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: AnonymousDIL on May 05, 2011, 03:52:28 PM
A more open and honest approach probably would have been better. If you had sat down with MIL/DM and said, "We are going to have X invites for My side and Y invites for DH's side." She probably would have been fine with it. That had to be one tough invitation making session..... I am soooo glad I didn't have to go through all that.

But,  :) it is in the past now and since your MIL forgave you, she will forgive your DM.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: pam1 on May 05, 2011, 04:48:40 PM
Quote from: musicnerd86 on May 05, 2011, 03:47:37 PM
Both of our mothers were set on how they were to be addressed and both sides did help contribute in a financial way, and we felt it appropriate to reflect that on the invites. Knowing that, I guess what I ultimately should have asked was, when is it ok to ruffle feathers?

Honestly, I think it's when no one else is paying unfortunately. 
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: Pen on May 05, 2011, 05:21:50 PM
Even then, intentional feather ruffling is so not Miss Manners or Emily Post.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: LaurieS on May 05, 2011, 05:22:37 PM
I'd rather have my feathers ruffled then to think that someone was not being honest with me.. is that odd?
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: musicnerd86 on May 05, 2011, 05:29:58 PM
Certainly not, Laurie. However, I had one too many feathers that could have been ruffled and I didn't think things through in the name of appeasement. I know honesty is the best policy and that should have been Priority #1 from the get go. I got intimidated knowing that both mothers were contributing and wanted something specific and I shouldn't have. Lesson learned.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: pam1 on May 05, 2011, 05:40:52 PM
If it's odd, then I am too lol.  I'd rather just know up front but then again, I don't think (could be wrong haha) that I'm a person difficult to tell. 

DH lies all the time to his Mom which I thought was wrong.  Now I'm not so sure, he seems to be able to function better around her than I typically can. 
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: themuffin on May 05, 2011, 05:59:43 PM
Quote from: elsieshaye on May 05, 2011, 02:55:20 PM
Yes, but why hold on to that for 10+ months and turn it into a war?  Why not just say "hey, I'm kind of upset that you weren't more up front about how you were going to handle it", accept the apology and let it go?  I do understand having trust damaged, but am having trouble understanding the intensity of her response unless there's some other button that got pushed.

Exactly what I was thinking.  It was not her day.  Okay, so she was not pleased.  It's not the end of the world.  She should have discussed it and let it go.  Her reaction is WAY extreme.  MHO
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: holliberri on May 05, 2011, 06:08:11 PM
Ruffling feathers over the music choices, menu and venue seem quite reasonable to me.

It's the purely personal stuff, even if people aren't paying that equate not only to ruffling feathers, but pure pain...which I think result in the damage.

Some examples I can think of:

1. G-ma's not invited to the wedding.
2. No photos with one entire side of the family.
3. Having one side of the family sit near the B & G at the reception and the other one way in the back.
4. Being allowed an invitation list of 7 people,  although you put forth money for the wedding and the other side of the family is carpooling with 7 minibuses to get there.
5. Sorry, ignoring a request about a name (an identity issue for many people) on even half the invitations is probably pretty poor etiquette no matter what Emily Post says.
6. Saying you'll do something when someone asks and then not doing it.

IDK, it is absolutely your wedding and ruffling some feathers is probably unavoidable....over little trivial things. I just don't think a name is trivial. I'm proud of my maiden name. My MIL is proud of her middle name. SIL's name carries with it royal bloodlines from Europe, so she's quite attached to it. DH's name gets misspelled constantly b/c people add an "s" to the end...it's upsetting to him.

I think you need to ask yourself "Is this a personal issue?" and "Would this person take this personally if I did it this way?" Then maybe you'll have a better indication of when it is okay to ruffle feathers and when it is not.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: musicnerd86 on May 05, 2011, 06:16:11 PM
Again, I know I made the wrong choice and I regret it. There's no excuse for what I did and I had to work hard to get this to cease and for things to get back to normal for the wedding. DH got mad at me too for upsetting his mother, so yeah... I paid for my crime.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: holliberri on May 05, 2011, 06:17:11 PM
I do wish she didn't react as she had.

I still don't see much reason for anyone to be mad at your DM if you have taken responsibility for what happened. It was your wedding, your call.

I hope she gets over that.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: musicnerd86 on May 05, 2011, 06:42:33 PM
Thank you for all of the advice, ladies. I know what I did was beyond out of line and I'm still learning from the whole experience. 

I'd also like to point out that my family and I had 100 invites to send out and DH's family had 100 invites to send out. I know we should have consulted MIL about our plan to make the invites for my guest list one way and the guest list for DH the way she requested. I still don't know what I should have done; sorry to seem ignorant, but I'm just now starting to circle the block of adult life and I have much to learn. I'm trying to use the experience to be prepared for similar situations in the future. Have any of you encountered seemingly unobtainable situations where the potential for offense existed on both sides?
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: Pen on May 05, 2011, 07:13:13 PM
Music, take it as it comes. There's no way to be prepared for everything. Trust me, I never expected to be shunned by DIL and her FOO immediately after the wedding. How could I ever have prepared for that?

It's great that you are concerned about your relationship with the ILs, but if you can continue to try to see things from their perspective you'll be OK. That doesn't mean you knuckle under to a demanding MIL who is up in your grill about every little thing... Treat them as considerately as you would your grandparents, friends, co-workers...parents...? Some of us MILs who had good relationships w/our DSs simply miss the easy, spontaneous give and take we had with them and don't know how to handle the awkwardness of having someone new in the picture. We're not all evil, most of us are just good ol' moms who miss our kids.

I hope your MIL knows how lucky she is to have a DIL like you and I hope she can treat your DM civilly in the future. I agree it's a bit much for MIL to carry this grudge for so long. For her sake as much as yours & DM's I hope she gets over it ASAP.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: holliberri on May 05, 2011, 07:20:27 PM
I think we've all encountered situations like that, Music.

I'm not sure what it is about marriage, babies and holidays, but all of these have come packed with super charged emotions (both good and bad). I think even the good emotions can lead to problems from time to time, to be honest. I also think that expectations is often the culprit...I expect one thing...MIL expects another...and we both expect everyone else to be just like us. Guess that's not how it works.

I do believe that the name issue will probably be corrected at the reception, upon the announcement of the parents of the groom, right? Or perhaps even in a program? (I don't know how elaborate your wedding is...I never did programs, but a lot of people do). I think that *should* rectify hurt feelings over invitations b/c everyone will stand corrected then (that's if they were that worried about it, my guess is they aren't).

I think we can all promise that you're both going to make mistakes and there will likely be situations like this in the future. Keeping emotions in check, communications lines open and a good old fashioned heartfelt apology in your back pocket might go a long way. Even if MIL does not do that...if you're doing it...that is half the battle! It may still be ugly, just not as ugly...
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: Nana on May 05, 2011, 07:54:42 PM


I agree with Elsie, Holly.  I dont see what the big problem is.  Even if, it seemed sneaky...or not straight forward, it shouldnt be a big deal.  Not being able to forgive this?  Come on... Noone was trying to hurt anyone. 

Why was your mil willing to forgive you and not your mom?   Some people just like trouble. 

Music...you are a nice dil, concerned about the relationship with in-laws.  Your mom just thought it was an option changing some invitations and not others...maybe it wasnt the best one but she was trying to help.    I wouldnt worry about this...you have many other more important things to worry about...if they cant be friends...so it be. Maybe it is better this way....imagine if this happened over nothing....what can you expect with other discrepancies (sp?).
Love
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: swp0710 on May 05, 2011, 08:04:41 PM
The wedding was last July and it went smoothly. This blew over quickly when I talked to my MIL the next day after the initial conflict. My husband and I both talked to her and did apologize for not informing her of our solution on how to respectfully represent our mothers on the invites. She accepted and moved on. I must say, though, we dated for 8 years, were engaged for 8 months and married for 10... and she STILL refers to me as DH's "friend", Sarah.

I posted earlier about the root of her issue with my DM but I can recap. DH was a Boy Scout growing (as was my dad and my brother, so I knew about that aspect of his life fairly well). We started dating in 2002 and he was 3/4 of the way to getting his Eagle Award (highest scout rank). All he had left was a summer camp to attend and a service project to do in the fall. To accommodate that, he explained to me and a few friends who were interested that he was planning cut out some of the extra things he was doing in scouts. MIL thought this was because I was telling him not to go... not so. She went around to her scouting adult friends and blamed me for his absence. Word eventually got to my brother's troop leaders (one of which happened to be my dad) and he asked me if I knew what that was all about. I didn't and it was a shock to find out that I was being spoken of that way.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: swp0710 on May 05, 2011, 08:07:10 PM
To avoid confusion... I had to recreate a new account. My email for the other account got hacked and I had to shut it down.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: holliberri on May 05, 2011, 08:10:57 PM
I never said her reaction wasn't extreme. It was, it was totally uncalled for. I also don't think DM should have been brought into this.  I never said I didn't think Music wasn't a good DIL; I think the fact that she cares enough about this is reason enough to argue that she is in fact a good DIL. She also apologized and I think she was treated unfairly.

I was only saying that a name mistake for a MOG (however unintentional) would be a big deal to a lot of people. There's probably two different schools of thought to this. We get so caught up in titles (MIL/DIL, G-parent names, etc), that it seems that actual legal names would be a legitimate concern for people.

A name mistake on an invitation announcing the marriage of my DD would be a big deal b/c it's not who I am. Names carry a lot of identity definition with them. I would be hurt if my own child (not DIL or DIL's DM) couldn't say, "You know what? That's not my mom's name. I'm not putting that on the invitation."

I say this as someone who almost made this mistake myself. I didn't know at the time, but my MIL went by her middle name (she's the only one in the world that I  know that does that...I didn't know people did that). Fortunately, DH was kind enough to catch it. I also said, "No big deal." He said, "Yes it is...my mom doesn't paritcularly like her first name and she's never gone by it." I'm glad he pointed that out to me; and MIL was thrilled that we chose consideration for her over formality. (Double bonus! That doens't happen often for me).
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: swp0710 on May 05, 2011, 08:18:26 PM
I totally agree Holly. Let me ask you this... do you prefer (in a formal setting only) as "Mrs. *DH's last name*" or do you prefer to be addressed as "*First name* *DH's Last name*

That's what caused the issue. She told us that she is not "Mrs. FIL's last name" she is "First name and DH's last name" She used this opportunity to lecture me on why she was a feminist and how being referred to by the formal version of her name was downright offensive. I had no way of knowing that the situation would cut that deep until we sat and talked it out.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: holliberri on May 05, 2011, 08:20:07 PM
Quote from: swp0710 on May 05, 2011, 08:04:41 PM
... and she STILL refers to me as DH's "friend", Sarah.

Have you asked her not to do this? She made it pretty clear she was upset about the name on the invite...I think she would understand why you would be bothered by being called DH's "friend," so long as you *nicely* mention it. I have no doubt you'll handle it nicely if you do, plus you have an example of how NOT to act.  :)
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: Pen on May 05, 2011, 08:25:31 PM
Quote from: swp0710 on May 05, 2011, 08:04:41 PM
I must say, though, we dated for 8 years, were engaged for 8 months and married for 10... and she STILL refers to me as DH's "friend", Sarah.

I was introduced by my SM of almost 30 years as "one of many recent visitors." At least you got to be a "friend."
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: holliberri on May 05, 2011, 08:26:42 PM
Quote from: swp0710 on May 05, 2011, 08:18:26 PM
I totally agree Holly. Let me ask you this... do you prefer (in a formal setting only) as "Mrs. *DH's last name*" or do you prefer to be addressed as "*First name* *DH's Last name*

That's what caused the issue. She told us that she is not "Mrs. FIL's last name" she is "First name and DH's last name" She used this opportunity to lecture me on why she was a feminist and how being referred to by the formal version of her name was downright offensive. I had no way of knowing that the situation would cut that deep until we sat and talked it out.

I go by my maiden name as often as possible, to be honest. I orginally chose my married name, but I started learning the connotations with it, and I also realize my maiden name is less common; so I've slowly been drifting back to my maiden name. I am a bit of a feminist too. I also check "Ms." when those pesky account registrations ask for a title. Something about Mrs. bothers me. Silly, I know. I have corrected people for calilng me Mrs. DH's last name. I say, "That's DH's mom...just call me Holly."

On an invitation, would that bother me? Nope, but I know feminists that are quite bothered by it. They want to have their own identity apart from their DH's...the Mrs. and Mrs. Male Last Name is interpreted as not allowing them that.

It's just a funny area where political ideology crosses with identification. That doesn't happen often. Also, since you've had this conversation with her...you may very well have a good idea of what to expect from her going forward; you can probably predict how she'll react to things.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: swp0710 on May 05, 2011, 08:30:10 PM
Pen, that is crazy. I do feel better about "friend", lol. My mom approached my DH differently. She gave him the esteemed title of "boyfriance" (boyfriend + fiance) during our engagement. May seem goofy, but it endeared him to her and that meant something to both of us. 

Precisely, Holly. I regret that I had to learn about her the way I did, but at least I did and now I do know for the future.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: holliberri on May 05, 2011, 08:32:03 PM
In all fairness, I would think that had I mentioned how I wanted my name, I would have explained why. Sometimes hearing that it is political ideology is all it takes. It really hones in on why an issue is so important to someone even if you don't agree...b/c chances are you have certain political ideologies yourself that you stand by.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: lancaster lady on May 05, 2011, 09:55:37 PM
Pen .........sorry about your title , but I think that's so funny ! Like something Miss Haversham would say ......!
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: Pen on May 05, 2011, 10:30:09 PM
It was only a title, my name was not mentioned. The mysteriously connected, unknown visitor.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: forever spring on May 06, 2011, 04:30:33 AM
Helloooo! Just a thought ...
There are awful catastrophes in the world happening as we speak. People are suffering!   
Is it really worth making ones life so miserable about such insignificant things. Maybe MIL should consider this. ;)
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: pam1 on May 06, 2011, 04:42:44 AM
I think even if an issue is important to someone personally -- it's better to explain calmly.  MIL lost her point with me as soon as the hysterics started.  I think Musicnerd in just her short time here has proved her "reasonableness" so I think probably in real life, she is just as open to other points of view. 

Personally, I kept my name because I wanted too and I like it.  And it's easier work wise.  The way society is right at this moment, I think if I were to get upset at every time someone calls me Mrs. DH and go into hysterics about it, well I'd be losing my mind on a daily basis. 

Music, about your dilemma.  My FOO does not like my DH's family, they refuse to be in the same room with them.  They don't make a scene and if it does happen, they remain polite and leave at the next available opportunity.  Since I know my FOO's feelings and I do consider it to be valid, I don't make many opportunities for them to be together. 
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: AnonymousDIL on May 06, 2011, 05:15:20 AM
I was thinking about the situation where at least one side would be offended. It was our wedding. We booked an outside venue (where DH proposed) and MIL pitched a fit about it and that it HAD to be indoors. Well, I didn't want to hear her complaining so we moved it (she just continued complaining about other stuff). Well the only church we could boook it in was my OLD home church. The one we were super involved in and my mother left after my dad died because it was too difficult for her to continue going there. My mom was upset, but she did great. I should have told MIL to shove it.  >:(

The "friend" thing.... MIL still had me as Anon MaidenName in her email system. It sorta bothered me, but I know she doesn't consider me part of the family and never will, buut I have come to terms with this. Well, it aparently REALLY bothered my DH so last week he sent her an email demanding that she change my name to Anon DHName.... I have not seen her yet to know how she is going to take this out on me. I'm sure it went through the entire family at the get together last week about what a horrible person I am..... I really wish I could control what my DH says. I have enough trouble with my own foot in my mouth. There isn't room for his! lol
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: LaurieS on May 06, 2011, 07:32:56 AM
Sure there is always room for one more foot Adil :)

I think everyone is #1 missing an important point and #2 making mil a villain.

Music has stated over and over that she spoke directly with her fmil and things were smoothed over and proceeded in a normal manner.  Mil did not take this to the grave with her so to speak.  And I'm amazed by how many especially surprised by the mil's here, are so quick to give her the title of villain.. ok she may have over reacted or reacted harshly.. but I mean really the situation never even needed to escalate from the beginning.  The woman reacted because she saw herself and her feelings and now her name not viewed anywhere near how she had hoped (and especially after she was asked how she would like to be viewed).  If ever there was a time to set a precedent this in her mind may have been it. 

But the wedding went on, Music was happy.. she came here to ask how to avoid future issues along this line.. some of these no win situations that we all face.

I will reiterate my advice to Music... Always try to be honest in both your words and your approach.  Do not ask your MIL for her opinion and then do something different in the end (I know this was not the case with the invites)... If you are only asking for a suggestion, make that perfectly clear.  Remember that your in-laws are as important to your husband as your parents are to you.  I like to say.. he wasn't hatched.. your husband had a life and hopefully a loving childhood just as you did.  I hate that old hogwash of a saying about loosing a son just because he marries.. I think if you can avoid getting trapped into thinking along those lines you will always be fine.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: SassyDI on May 06, 2011, 07:37:54 AM










Re: Starting a Family...

« Reply #18 on: Today at 07:36:12 AM »

Quote


People act crazy and controlling over wedding.  Drives me nuts.  We had so much craziness.  We didn't do Communion because GMIL would have gotten angry that I did it because I am not Catholic.  I took it at my friends wedding and they got mad at me.  I was the maid of honor he offered and I took it not knowing what to do.(I was a young 21 now I would probably just crossed my arms but never had to deal with it back then) 




Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: justus on May 06, 2011, 09:56:34 AM
In answer to your question about going forward, I think Louise gave you the best advice. Your M and MIL have a problem with each other, that is between them. They are adults and should work it out, but if they don't, and they start to act out, you and DH should make it very clear that they will behave at family functions and if they don't, put them on a time out.

You want to be courteous, considerate and polite, but don't walk around on eggshells. You cannot know what is going to offend someone, OK, you can know about most common sense things, but some things you just don't know. Everyone has odd little things that really offend them based on their personal experience and you would never guess until you push that button. But, you can't live your life in fear that you are going to mistep and hurt someone's poor wittle feelings. Yes, you should be kind and considerate, and you should apologize if you do offend someone or make a misstep, but you should also expect your MIL and your M to be reasonable, and rational adults. Treat them as if they are, and they will probably live up to your expectations.

I disagree with Laurie that by asking someone their opinion you are then obligated to follow their wishes, neither do I think you owe them an explanation or even notice that you are going to do something different, although letting your MIL know ahead of time would have been wise. I learned this when I was in my 20s. People would ask my opinion, then do something else, and I would get so upset. I realized I was too emotionally invested in the outcome and no one was obligated to do what I thought they should do no matter how many times they asked. It was their life, not mine. 

I also don't see this whole name thing as such a serious issue as it has been made out to be. If your MIL were a reasonable and rational adult, she would not have reacted in such an extreme way. That she did get over it does show that she can pull her head out of her behind, which is a very good thing.

Don't get attached to the notion that your M and MIL are going to be friends. If they chose not to work it out, that is their choice.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: LaurieS on May 06, 2011, 10:17:55 AM
QuoteI disagree with Laurie that by asking someone their opinion you are then obligated to follow their wishes, neither do I think you owe them an explanation or even notice that you are going to do something different, although letting your MIL know ahead of time would have been wise.

I was not implying that you are obligated to do exactly as they suggested.. I said that if you ask, then do not imply that you understand and appreciate their suggestion then attempt to sneak around behind their back to do as you wish.. I said to be upfront about your decisions.  In this case it was the woman's name, kinda an important decision.

I still do not agree that the mother's need to rehash this thing... It's done.. it's over.. they are fine.. Music was asking how to attach a B.O.P. to their future lives.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: justus on May 06, 2011, 11:52:52 AM
True, that drama episode does seem to be over with and I certainly didn't and don't suggest they re-hash it, however, the OP has said several times there are hard feelings between the two woman going all the way back to when the OP was in High School. She said they get a long on the surface, but it sounds like they simply tolerate each other when they are in each others presence during family events and she is worried this could become a problem when she and her DH have kids. I would worry, too.

It also sounds like she is afraid to do something else that might offend her MIL and get the same over the top reaction.

I was trying to address the issues I believe the OP has, I really don't care about the name thing as it is a minor issue in the grand scheme of things.

And, I am not sure why I am explaining myself. Let's agree to disagree on the name thing and drop it, okay? Its done...its over...we are fine.... at least I hope we are fine. Let's move on to the other more pressing issues. The OP has been beaten up enough over it and I don't care enough to argue about it.

What is B.O.P?
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: LaurieS on May 06, 2011, 12:13:15 PM
I was not arguing I was clarifying since you misunderstood what I had stated. I felt obligated to explain myself once you chose to use my quote while challenge my view.  I don't know why you chose to explain yourself either, as you are basically stating the same thing I did, which is.. once taken care of it was time to move on.  I disagreed with stepping totally out of the picture and praying that the mom's can work it out.

BOP=Blowout Preventer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowout_preventer  ..

My sentence was "Music was asking how to attach a B.O.P. to their future lives."
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: AnonymousDIL on May 06, 2011, 12:20:58 PM
Quote from: Laurie on May 06, 2011, 12:13:15 PM
BOP=Blowout Preventer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowout_preventer  ..

My sentence was "Music was asking how to attach a B.O.P. to their future lives."

AHA! I belive that is called "duct tape" or "finger casts" in my case here LOL
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: holliberri on May 06, 2011, 06:36:04 PM
Beating up on the op where? There were a multitude of opinions on here and they varied a wide spectrum. There were various experiences shared and a different subjects talked about. The topic is only four pages....so it certainly hasn't been drawn out.

Music, if you felt attacked, I apologize. I hope you return because I enjoyed talking with you and I appreciated your insights. I thought I would be able to learn a few things from you, and if you felt like anyone was beating up on you, I didn't do my job.
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: musicnerd86 on May 08, 2011, 08:09:50 AM
Happy Mother's Day, ladies!

I do not feel beat up at all. I have learned a lot from everyone's response and I appreciate everyone's kind and wise words. I don't feel anyone was attacking me or speaking in a way that was out of line.

Now, it's time to get ready to go to visit DH's parents and then my FOO. Have a wonderful day, ladies!
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: holliberri on May 08, 2011, 08:14:38 AM
Enjoy! Keep us up to date with things!
Title: Re: Wedding Aftermath (From a DIL)
Post by: Pooh on May 09, 2011, 09:53:57 AM
I think that you have to just go ahead and expect that there might be little "tiffs" over the years.  One thing I have learned over my life is that you definitely can't please everyone.  You can do your best to compromise and have consideration for others, but it still doesn't mean you can please everyone.  All you can do is do your best.

I think that what you did was very nice to try and accommodate both sides wishes, and at the same time, I think you have learned from this that being upfront with MIL about what you were trying to do, might have worked.  Maybe it wouldn't have.  Maybe she wouldn't have liked your half going out with a different name.....who knows. 

I think it's great that you are trying to avoid pitfalls in the future, but I think you need to be yourself.  You can remain true to yourself while still trying to be considerate of others, and apologizing when you mess something up.  We all make mistakes.  Just don't lose yourself in trying to please everyone.