I have been reading this site for a while and I've finally got up the guts to post because I am getting to the point where I want to give up. A little background: I was previously married to a very wonderful man that tried more than anything to gain his abusive mother's approval but clear up until the end of his life he never gained it. My former MIL would openly say that she had no love to give her son. He very tragically passed away and I still miss him every single day. I saw a therapist a few months after and she advised me to cut these people off and that I didn't have to put up with their toxic manipulation and I have cut them off. From then on I swore to myself that I was going to stand up for myself and my loved ones and not be walked on anymore, however, I am one that hates confrontation so if I am uncomfortable I back away and minimize contact.
I am now remarried to a wonderful man(we went to high school together) that has a lot of compassion and is so kind, but he doesn't allow himself to be walked on either. My MIL was not really involved while DH and I were dating, it was after we were engaged is when things went downhill. My MIL is a widow herself and has been for 11 years and my DH has been the one taking care of her and her house for the last 8 years by himself and he is her baby(her words, not mine). Later on I noticed that my DF and his mom would frequently get in yelling arguments with each other which made me really uncomfortable because I was raised to respect people (especially my elders). After one of the arguments I pulled DF aside and told him that it bothered me how he yelled at his mom (this had been going on for 7 years on a weekly basis) and that he needed to treat her with respect, but I also said that is wasn't right for her to yell & swear at him the way she did either but we can't change her, so hopefully by his example of not yelling it would show her that he wasn't going to engage in that anymore. He has slipped up 2-3 times in the last 2 years yelling back at her which I think is a great improvement.
My MIL feels the need to press us with her advice and if we don't follow it she gets upset and yells at DH. For example, while engaged we were buying a bed for us and she told my DF(dear fiance) that she had advised her other children to get king sized beds so that their kids could hop into bed with them, but she told my DF to get a queen size bed. Personally I think it's weird for her to be giving her advice on this subject anyway, but my DF is 6'6" and doesn't fit on a queen, so we got a Cali King which is perfect for his height and us. She got so upset about that.
The wedding is a whole other story that involved arguments, hurt feelings, tears, DF's entire side wearing black, and a mistake on my part. I wanted to pay for everything myself so I didn't owe anyone anything and plan it just me and my DF. I didn't get to plan my first wedding so I wanted to plan my second one. I didn't involve MIL enough, but she knew more of what was going on then my own mom because she was in Australia during the engagement.
My MIL and my DH were big into the show 24 and since we have DVR we would invite her over to watch it so we could fast forward the commercials and we'd take turns bringing/making a snack to eat while we watched. One time she told us she couldn't make it so we made other plans and had my sister and her husband over and MIL's plans changed again and she didn't let us know so she was just going to come over and when she saw the unfamiliar car parked in our driveway she went home and yelled at DH about it a few days later and has never been back to my house since.
Since she relied on my DH for pretty much all her needs (since he'd been taking care of her for so long) she would call about 3-4 times a week needing his help and would expect him over within an hour to fix whatever problem she had. A lot of the time it was things like she bumped the remote and it changed something so her TV wasn't working anymore, she needed help burning a cd, she was cooking and was out of a certain food item & it was too heavy for her to carry up the stairs and other times it was mowing the lawn, shoveling snow, finding something in the garage (then yelling at him for moving it where she couldn't find it)and then she would talk to him for a half hour to an hour. The demands from her were getting too much so I started to pointed out to DH that she is far more capable than what she's admitting to. She's only 63 yrs old and she's not by any means fragile. I pointed out to DH that she says she can't carry something up her stairs but she can move her refrigerator around like it's nothing (she would move it in the middle of the kitchen to block DH's path so that's he'd do his share of the dishes before proceeding through the kitchen), she said she couldn't carry her groceries in from the car but she could lift a tire in the back of her car. His eyes were beginning to open up and then MIL hung herself when she told DH that she doesn't mind being a widow when she can reap the benefits of having other people do stuff for her. That's when he stopped answering all of her calls right away and stopped doing those little tasks for her. He would still help her with the lawn but on his own time. She now calls DH her once dependable child. At first it hurt his feelings and he would go over by himself and help do other stuff like fix broken sprinkler lines but she would yell and swear at him every time, and I mean every time, he would go over to help her and she would tell him that I'm controlling him, that my FOO is evil and she gave an excuse to hate every member of my family who she has only met twice for the wedding, and every time they have an argument she would call DH's other siblings (who all live out of state) and tell them how disrespectful her son is being. They would call DH and ask what is going on and when DH would try and explain they would say "I just don't see mom doing that." Since I've been in the family she has never yelled at any of her other children, just her youngest. She also treats the both of us like children, she mutters passive-aggressive comments, and says phrases like "you two won't understand until..." or "You're not old enough to appreciate this..." Also if we tried to express our opinions or feelings on any matter and she didn't agree with us she would laugh at us (this was a major trigger for DH).
The relationship with my MIL was not what I was hoping for and I really wanted to have a good relationship with her so my DH and I decided to narrow our problems with her to 3 main ones and have a talk with her(something I developed an ulcer over because I was so nervous about this confrontation). During the talk we brought up the 3 things we asked of her 1. not be offended if we didn't follow her advice 2. to please not speak ill of my FOO to DH (she competes with my FOO because I have a large family and we ALL live in the same city so we do see each other at least once a week) 3. leave my former IL's out of things (she had this obsession with them too) She thought that I constantly compared my former MIL to her. I went through counseling to get over my her and she was the last thing on my mind. I told my MIL that I didn't compare her and she told me I was a liar. After fighting back the tears I collected myself and asked how I could prove to her that I didn't and she said "I don't know, time I guess." Her proof that I compared her was a quote I had on facebook when I first started my profile 6 years ago that I completely forgot was there, then she yelled at me, and I apologized and told her I would take it down and I did as soon as we got home from talking to her. She never agreed to any of the requests we asked of her. At the end of the talk we asked her if there was anything we could do on our part to improve the relationship and her only request was that we spend more time with her side of the family. Since all of her other kids lived out of state that meant to spend more time with her. So...for the next 2 months we would visit her once a week. If we missed a week we would visit twice the following week. She started calling again needing help for things in the second month so when DH would go over there to help she started up with bashing me and my FOO again. My DH pleaded with his mom to give me a chance and that I was trying and she laughed at his face. My DH would come home to ticked off then I'd spend the next 30-60 min calming him down. It wasn't worth it to us so we cut way back on the communication. We didn't talk to her for 3 months and when dh finally went over again to see where things stood she continued on about me & my FOO. So now we only see her on certain holidays or special occasions, so about once ever 2 months and we live only 5 minutes away from her.
Occasionally we feel sorry for her because she lives alone and gets lonely and we live the closest to her but whenever we try anything it just comes back to bite us in the rear. We don't know what to do. I have never raised my voice to my MIL or disrespected her at all. My thinking is that she's upset that I stole her baby and her helper, but I couldn't stand seeing DH treated like that and how upset he would get. I personally don't care anymore what she thinks of me, if she wants to hate me she can. My concern is for DH and his relationship with her (which he only wants in small doses) but he wants a relationship with his siblings more and MIL is putting a strain on that. So it seems that if he wants a relationship with his siblings he has to have a relationship with his mother.
When I am around MIL minds herself a little more. She's only yelled twice in front of me and once at me. But she is very fake as well. She will ask question after question and make it seem like she genuinely cares, but then a few days later(since we live in the same small city) we get wind of everything we've told her with her own spin on it. She is a HUGE gossiper and feels the need to tell everyone she can everything she knows. We have a family newsletter each week and in it she has a chatter section at the bottom that she always tells her gossip for the week. Ugh!
I have thought of us taking MIL out to dinner once a month, this way she can spend time with her son but it's in a public place so she can't act out. DH is hesitant about this plan but is willing to try it. What do you think? Is the relationship worth it? Any insight as to why MIL behaves this way and how we can deal with it? I don't know what to do.
Dear Rejected
Welcome to this forum which is to me like my second home. I laught lot here and also have cried when reading sad stories when I am vunerable.
You will certainly have many responses that will help you a lot.
Rejected. I feel you have a very good heart and admire your patience. I dont get it. Many of us would have paid or done anything to have the chance you have given your mil. Some of us without really doing nothing were labeled and were not given a chance (at least for some time lol). You have tolerated more than enough. You have very good grounds to reject her totally because she is really a very toxic person in your life. But..... probably because you are good people you can give her one more chance....but this would be by talking to her and putting all the cards on the table. A matter of take it or leave it. Respect is something she needs to give both of you. I believe you have done your best to have her in your life but she wants her cake and eat it too. You have to negotiate things or walk....
I wish you the best of luck
Again welcome here and keep us posted.
Love
Rejected,
I admire your patience. I definitely agree that she is lonely. She was probably dependent on her DS until you got married, and all that changed for her. Although, I think that is what should have happened, it sounds like she has trouble dealing with that.
I don't have much more to offer than that. I commend your desire to make it work, but I think her issue is that she needs a life outside of family, as she is a widow, and her children are grown and married. I don't know that you can do much to fix that for her.
As for involvement, I think it's wonderful you would consider taking her out once a month. I don't think it's a bad idea at all. But, you said it was so she couldn't act out. My MIL's two worst reactions have occured in very public places and she didn't care who was around. I'm not saying that your MIL is like mine, but in my experience if someone's going to act out, they don't care where they do it. I say take her out to dinner/lunch...as long as everything is fine, great! If she acts up at all, then I wouldn't continue to take her out after that.
I think its wonderful you're trying to work this out...good luck! I hope she does know how to behave in public!
Dear Rejected
Welcome to the forum and please know, I to would like to complilment you on your patience and do-diligence with this whole thing.
My real mother is much like your MIL....your MIL is a very negative person who loves controversy, if you say white, she'll say black and twist and turn everything into a negative, for many reasons, 1. Because she doesn't know any other culture, that is how she grew up to believe, 2. Because she is jealous and cannot accept that her son is no longer there to do her bidding, so she tries to manipulate situations in her favor to get attention
3. She doesn't view her yelling as odd...again, the way she was raised to believe people act.
You see, we are products of our parents or whoever raised us....and we adopt they're cultures....if parents who are uneducated believe in spitting and eating with they're fingers, that is what they're children will grow up to believe....
We adopt our parents thoughts, virtues, beliefs, bad habits, everything....
Also, your MIL loves to push buttons, she is so hungry for attention, even negative attention to her is acceptable....
Unfortunately you are not going to change her no matter how much you discuss with her things that you would like her to think, believe and follow through with...you can't teach an ol dog new tricks unless they want to learn....and she has no desire to do so.
To give you an idea
My own mother, has exhausted most of her friends, that now, she only has me and the man that was my Step father's distant relative....she is such a negative person and very undereducated....always has been, but she thinks she's a know it all....and you can't tell her anything...all she wants to do is complain, she doesn't want answers or easy ways to fix her problems, and she gets very angry if you give her solutions....
She is narcissistic due to a very bad upbringing...she was brutally beaten by a drunken father and has never known love....because she doesn't know how to display it....nor compassion, nor tollerence....she dislikes everyone and talks about them all the time....when I was little, she used to tell all the neighbors and family how bad I was....but I wasn't....she just wanted attention, and she'll use others to get it.
Once I was giving a cousin horseback riding lessons and she looked at me, after we were working together for about 3 months and said, "your a nice person!" and I looked at her shocked....she explained to me, that my mother always talks about what a horrible person I am....and since then, I have called her out on that....b/c that surely wasn't the first time someone said that to me....
If it were not for my step father she would have nothing...he was such a very kind person and good man, giving and caring. Well, she talked about him and all my life I heard how men were no good....and how she could have given me up for adoption...but didn't....little did she know, that I always wished she had.
So, when I see a manipulative confrontational person, I tend to vere away from them big time....they need a huge amount of attention and will do anything to acheive that....I to am not confrontational, however, I have learned as you will....not to be a door mat, as I now will protect my territory...like a mama tiger....(the older you grow the less tollerant you become)
What I would suggest here, is to not expect anything of her, and keep a distance....she won't change....and the more you ask her not to do something, she's going to interrupt that by saying, you've changed her son, and turned him against you...she is unable to recognize boundaries...and doesn't know when to stop....or keep her mouth shut....did you ever see that kind of person, who no matter what you say, can't back off and be quiet, they always have to have the last say? And they will twist your words into actually who they are....and it's very easy to spot....so, realize, that your inquires about boundaries will not be heard....I bet she can't even begin to focus on what your needs are, she doesn't care.
I'm very proud of your husband, though, for controlling his temper and not yelling back at her....which speaks volumns about how aware he is....good for you and him both.
Remember, your not married to her, your married to her son only, and you owe her nothing but to be nice to her and just ignore what she says, that is all you can do....you will cop an attitude one day, that you just don't care anymore...and no matter what, remember, she is a very negative person, an uncapable of giving you or him, any credit....or approval, so don't look for it, and the moment you can stop looking for that approval is when you'll stop caring what she thinks...believe me....
You know in your heart of hearts who you are, and that is all that matters, no one else.
I admire you....and wish you the best, you deserve it....I hope in some small way I've helped?
remember, with some people, the more you want to be accepted by them, the more they will reject you, it's a game they play...they love to win, and what they don't understand, no one wins....really.
Hugs
Creme
Thank you so very much ladies! It helps just to know and hear from other MIL's that my own is toxic. After having my previous MIL and now this one I was beginning to think I was the problem, but I couldn't see how. With my first MIL I was completely submissive and did everything for them from cleaning her house for her (dirty diapers and rotten food everywhere, even cleaning up her children's vomit a few times because no one else would)babysitting, and fixing her family of 12 dinner after hearing she'd had a hard day just to get her to like me but she just walked all over me and my DH. With my second MIL I have never talked back to her, we have tried to visit frequently, work on projects with my DH at her house, but as you can see when the problems got too much I had to talk through it with her so we wouldn't get walked on anymore and it didn't accomplish anything. I couldn't see what on earth I was doing wrong to become so unlucky with MIL's.
Thank you so much for your support as it puts me at ease. I've only told bits of her personality and you all have hit the nail on the head filling in the rest. She is very narcissistic and she is very confrontational. She uses guilt and manipulation to get things and charges us "taxes" if she were ever to do us a favor. The taxes are us doing more chores/projects for her. We no longer ask her for anything at all. She is an extremely negative person that is always a victim.
The sad thing is, is that DH says he doesn't remember her being like this when his dad was alive. That she has changed into this bitter person after her husband passed. I admit I was very bitter & numb after losing my 1st DH and it's normal, but for it to go on for 11 years is sad. I believe that because she received an outpouring of help and support from her neighbors and children that she has gotten so use to having everything done for her by playing the victim of course. While I agree that at first she was a victim and needed support and to borrow strength from others (been there done that) but after so many years she needed to grow more dependent on herself and she never did, she just became lazy and developed a sense of entitlement.
Anyway, I think we might try the eating out thing and see how that goes. I don't think she'll act out in public. Fingers crossed that all goes well!! Thanks again so much for giving me courage & strength.
Rejected, welcome and keep reading, it will truly help when you see that other people try very hard too and just can't get through to someone else. It is because they are who they are, and you can't change them unless they want to change. I applaud you for still trying to come up with something that works. It's a shame that she does not appreciate your DH or you, and everything you have done.
Since everyone else touched on the MIL, I would like to say something about another thing you brought up in your post. It annoys me to no end when siblings that live away from a situation and don't do anything for a parent, want to criticize or step-in on a situation. Sorry, but I have a brother that does this and lives 3 states away. He is not here and dealing with the day-to-day things, and shows up twice a year to visit, that's it. But when my Mom was in the hospital, he called every day telling me what I should be asking the Doctors and what I should be doing for her. I finally told him to get in his car and drive his happy butt here and tell the Doctor's himself and do those things for Mom. I love my Brother, and so does my Mom, but I am just going to say frankly, if you are not here helping or there helping, then butt out.
I know your DH wants to have a relationship with his siblings, but they are not the ones there dealing with her and should not be calling because his Mom called and "tattled" on him.
Quote from: Pooh on February 10, 2011, 11:51:22 AM
Since everyone else touched on the MIL, I would like to say something about another thing you brought up in your post. It annoys me to no end when siblings that live away from a situation and don't do anything for a parent, want to criticize or step-in on a situation. Sorry, but I have a brother that does this and lives 3 states away. He is not here and dealing with the day-to-day things, and shows up twice a year to visit, that's it. But when my Mom was in the hospital, he called every day telling me what I should be asking the Doctors and what I should be doing for her. I finally told him to get in his car and drive his happy butt here and tell the Doctor's himself and do those things for Mom. I love my Brother, and so does my Mom, but I am just going to say frankly, if you are not here helping or there helping, then butt out.
I've heard siblings rip another sibling apart because they thought that a phone call wasnt' good enough, and that the person living nearby should be stopping by everyday, not just calling their mother.
I think to my self, "Why don't you move and make sure she's checked on everyday..."
Terrible. A sibling going it alone taking care of their parents is stressed out enough without everyone else's two cents.
Quote from: cremebrulee on February 10, 2011, 06:11:50 AM
You see, we are products of our parents or whoever raised us....and we adopt they're cultures....if parents who are uneducated believe in spitting and eating with they're fingers, that is what they're children will grow up to believe....
We adopt our parents thoughts, virtues, beliefs, bad habits, everything....
Do you really believe this? Is that how most people here on this forum think and the thoughts they accept?
Dear Rejected,
I wish I had the perfect solution for you! However, it sounds like you and your husband are dealing very well with the situation. It is fantastic that the two of you are able to talk about this and strategize together. That kind of unity will be a gift to you both as you struggle through the pain created by your MIL.
Please know that ultimately this is her problem, not yours. Your efforts to both reach out and create reasonable boundaries are heroic, and if, in the end, they do not accomplish what you hope, you do not bear the guilt. You have gone above and beyond the call of duty.
All the best to you!
Quote from: Laurie on February 10, 2011, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: cremebrulee on February 10, 2011, 06:11:50 AM
You see, we are products of our parents or whoever raised us....and we adopt they're cultures....if parents who are uneducated believe in spitting and eating with they're fingers, that is what they're children will grow up to believe....
We adopt our parents thoughts, virtues, beliefs, bad habits, everything....
Do you really believe this? Is that how most people here on this forum think and the thoughts they accept?
I don't believe that. Not for a second. Sometimes bad behavior is plain bad behavior, no matter how our parents raised us. If that were true, I'd be smoking Marlboro Reds like my dad (non-smoker here), watching 24 hour news networks like my mom and I never would've renounced the religion they raised me in. Neither of them ever picked up a book in their lives and yet I have over 500 in my living room waiting to be shelved.
Plus, I know of a few mothers on here that are aghast at their child's behavior. I'd be hardpressed to think it was my fault that my child was acting out or behaving in a way that I never would've accepted while they were living with me. I wouldn't want the extra burden of that in addition to the pain of watching them make bad choices.
Rejected, I am going to advise you to keep your cards close to your chest. Every time you draw a line in the sand, your MIL can't help but step over it. She is just that kind of person. She loves the drama and she obviously has not respect for you. Besides, as you said, she considers you both to be children, so who are you to tell her what she can or cannot do? She'll show you!!!
So, don't tell her where the boundaries are, but give her natural consequences when she does cross a line. When she screams at your DH, he leaves no matter if he is in the middle of fixing her plumbing and the water is turned off. He tells her that he won't tolerated being treated like that and she can just call a plumber to finish the job. Call when she can behave like an adult. Same thing if she starts to criticizes you or your FOO. If he is on the phone, he hangs up and does not answer her phone calls for a while. Essentially, he puts her in time out. You have to give her reason to change.
About the gossiping, stop the information train. Don't tell one thing about your life. Give her vague answers like, "We haven't decided," or "Those plans are still in flux," or "I was told that in confidence and won't repeat it," or, "I don't want to talk about that," then change the subject. If she keeps coming back to it, repeat the same things or you say something in a teasing voice like, "Boy, you are being nosy today." If she gets upset say, "Someone is a bit sensitive." Then change the subject again. Remember that just because she asks a question, you don't have to answer. She is being nosy, insensitive and rude if she pursues a subject you don't want to talk about. End the visit or phone call if she is being too intrusive.
My own M asked me when DH and I were first dating if we were having sex. I was in my 30s at the time. She thought she had a right to the information because she asked and because she told me everything, so I should tell her everything. I told her that I wished she didn't tell me everything. No one should know about their parent's sex life what I knew, and she would never ever know about my sex life as it wasn't any of her business. Oh, she was mad, but she got over it. I won't be bullied into sharing private information.
BTW, she chooses to be lonely. It isn't your responsibility to make sure she has company. If she didn't want to be lonely, she could do something about it.
I don't know what to tell you about the siblings. My own siblings stopped talking to me because of my own Mother's poison. She essentially made them chose. Your H does not owe them an explanation. He has tried, they don't believe him, so stop trying. I finally told my DB that if M had a problem with me, she should act like an adult and deal with me directly instead of pulling him into it. He had nothing to say to that. I also told him that he just makes the problem worse by becoming involved. It worked for a little while, but M stepped things up because she wasn't getting her quota of attention from DB and DB had been trained from birth to give M what she wanted.
Yes, my M is a piece of work. She taught me how not to be an MIL and mother of adult children. Oh, I have messed up, but my children and SIL are much too valuable to me to drive them away like my M did me, DH and my DDs.
Quote from: Laurie on February 10, 2011, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: cremebrulee on February 10, 2011, 06:11:50 AM
You see, we are products of our parents or whoever raised us....and we adopt they're cultures....if parents who are uneducated believe in spitting and eating with they're fingers, that is what they're children will grow up to believe....
We adopt our parents thoughts, virtues, beliefs, bad habits, everything....
Do you really believe this? Is that how most people here on this forum think and the thoughts they accept?
No I don't believe that in totality. I do believe we do follow in some things of our parents. I do take after my Mother/GM on many things as far as they raised me to be responsible, have work ethics, values, integrity, respect for others, that family was important, etc.. But as an older teenager and young adult, I made a choice to keep following those beliefs.
To me, that is like blaming everything your child does on peer pressure. Does it exist and make it hard sometimes to do the right thing? Absolutely, but you still always have a choice. I told my sons that as they were growing up. If your friends want you to do something that you know is wrong, you have a choice, but don't blame them later for your bad decision.
Holli, I am the exact opposite of you. Neither of my parents smoked. I do. My parents do not believe in drinking. I like an occasional drink. They are in no way responsible for my choices.
Who said I didn't like a drink or two (or three)? Haha. Dad did give me that!
I don't think I'll ever have Mom's ability to effortlessly keep her house spotless or to make the best stuffed shells in town.
If only...
What I got from my parents is my race and my genes.. The rest is pretty much developed over time with a lot more influences then just my parents.
**ha ha... I guess my race is part of my genes.. but you're following**
Quote from: Laurie on February 10, 2011, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: cremebrulee on February 10, 2011, 06:11:50 AM
You see, we are products of our parents or whoever raised us....and we adopt they're cultures....if parents who are uneducated believe in spitting and eating with they're fingers, that is what they're children will grow up to believe....
We adopt our parents thoughts, virtues, beliefs, bad habits, everything....
Do you really believe this? Is that how most people here on this forum think and the thoughts they accept?
We perhaps adopt moral values ,family values ,respect etc from our parents .
I think thats were it ends ....
We hope to learn from their mistakes too ....
The next generation will always want better than the last ,achieve more ,live longer .
It's called progress ...otherwise we would still be in the stone age .
Quote from: Laurie on February 10, 2011, 01:33:31 PM
What I got from my parents is my race and my genes.. The rest is pretty much developed over time with a lot more influences then just my parents.
**ha ha... I guess my race is part of my genes.. but you're following**
No, I never follow you....I just pretend to so you will not call me names. ;D
I can sure see why DH's other siblings live out of state. How handy that they can dump it all on DH and then complain that he's not doing it right. I have a short (as in no) fuse with anyone who yells at me and/or mine. I also have the same thing going on with anyone who doesn't listen and partner with me. I think you have done everything possible and do not need to continue to wet-nurse this perpetual two-year-old. IMHO - it is time to move...change phone numbers and put in a security system. My son would write me off in a New York Minute if I pulled that kind of stuff on him and he's a very loving, giving, compassionate and sensitive man. Sending love...
Thank again for all the comments! Thank you Pooh for pointing that out! We don't have to put up with DH's siblings and them telling him to take care of their mom better or visit her more. Since DH and I cut back on our visiting with MIL one of his siblings & his family have moved back(for work) and live 30 min away and they hang out with MIL so much and give DH a hard time because we don't do as much as they do. DH said to his B "I took care of mom for the last 8 years, now it's your turn." His B doesn't agree with that mainly because he's not a handyman at all so MIL has been hiring more and more handymen lately to fix things around her house which is costing her money, but that's not our problem anymore. ;D
Justus you are right on! I have cut back on my answers to MIL making them less informative but I could still be more vague and I will definitely work on that. Also, I had never thought of this until you pointed it out, that it really is her own choice being lonely. Thank you for helping me see that!
DH has hung up on her a few times, usually when the swearing begins, and she never uses the really bad words but still, it's show disrespect. He has also walked out on her yelling at him and peeled out in her driveway a few times, but she doesn't learn. He needs to do it every time though, not just sometimes. Thankfully she hardly ever gets the opportunity to yell at him anymore since the only times we see her are during holidays or special occasions when others are around so she minds her yelling, but it doesn't stop the making fun & laughing at him and passive aggressive comments to the both of us which is only why we stay for around an hour. :)
Anyway, thanks again to everyone. It means so much to me to have your support!
Ha ha ha rejected! Is your icon the evil stepmother in Snow White?
Quote from: Rejected on February 11, 2011, 07:49:18 AM
He has also walked out on her yelling at him and peeled out in her driveway a few times, but she doesn't learn. He needs to do it every time though, not just sometimes.
I just spent 936.00 on tires this week.. I think I'd just slam the door to make my point.
Quote from: Pooh on February 10, 2011, 01:15:51 PM
Quote from: Laurie on February 10, 2011, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: cremebrulee on February 10, 2011, 06:11:50 AM
You see, we are products of our parents or whoever raised us....and we adopt they're cultures....if parents who are uneducated believe in spitting and eating with they're fingers, that is what they're children will grow up to believe....
We adopt our parents thoughts, virtues, beliefs, bad habits, everything....
Do you really believe this? Is that how most people here on this forum think and the thoughts they accept?
No I don't believe that in totality. I do believe we do follow in some things of our parents. I do take after my Mother/GM on many things as far as they raised me to be responsible, have work ethics, values, integrity, respect for others, that family was important, etc.. But as an older teenager and young adult, I made a choice to keep following those beliefs.
To me, that is like blaming everything your child does on peer pressure. Does it exist and make it hard sometimes to do the right thing? Absolutely, but you still always have a choice. I told my sons that as they were growing up. If your friends want you to do something that you know is wrong, you have a choice, but don't blame them later for your bad decision.
Holli, I am the exact opposite of you. Neither of my parents smoked. I do. My parents do not believe in drinking. I like an occasional drink. They are in no way responsible for my choices.
well Pooh, let me put it another way...and perhaps I worded it wrong, what I meant to say, is what you have said is very true....however, there are people out there who really do not know any better, because they were bought up so poorly...or they develop poor people skills due to they're upbringing...but yes, you are right and I should have made it more clear....we do most certainly have a choice....but what about a child who came up so tramatic that they develop narcississum? Do they have a choice....I've read that, that is one of the most difficult things to fight, to heal and to live with? And I know I'm going to the other end of the sprectrum, but this type of thing is what I had in mind in my first post....
Someone doesn't just become that over night, yanno?
Quote from: cremebrulee on February 11, 2011, 05:43:02 PM
Quote from: Pooh on February 10, 2011, 01:15:51 PM
Quote from: Laurie on February 10, 2011, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: cremebrulee on February 10, 2011, 06:11:50 AM
You see, we are products of our parents or whoever raised us....and we adopt they're cultures....if parents who are uneducated believe in spitting and eating with they're fingers, that is what they're children will grow up to believe....
We adopt our parents thoughts, virtues, beliefs, bad habits, everything....
Do you really believe this? Is that how most people here on this forum think and the thoughts they accept?
No I don't believe that in totality. I do believe we do follow in some things of our parents. I do take after my Mother/GM on many things as far as they raised me to be responsible, have work ethics, values, integrity, respect for others, that family was important, etc.. But as an older teenager and young adult, I made a choice to keep following those beliefs.
To me, that is like blaming everything your child does on peer pressure. Does it exist and make it hard sometimes to do the right thing? Absolutely, but you still always have a choice. I told my sons that as they were growing up. If your friends want you to do something that you know is wrong, you have a choice, but don't blame them later for your bad decision.
Holli, I am the exact opposite of you. Neither of my parents smoked. I do. My parents do not believe in drinking. I like an occasional drink. They are in no way responsible for my choices.
well Pooh, let me put it another way...and perhaps I worded it wrong, what I meant to say, is what you have said is very true....however, there are people out there who really do not know any better, because they were bought up so poorly...or they develop poor people skills due to they're upbringing...but yes, you are right and I should have made it more clear....we do most certainly have a choice....but what about a child who came up so tramatic that they develop narcississum? Do they have a choice....I've read that, that is one of the most difficult things to fight, to heal and to live with? And I know I'm going to the other end of the sprectrum, but this type of thing is what I had in mind in my first post....
Someone doesn't just become that over night, yanno?
Extreme traumatic occurrences can alter and even in part form our perception of right vs wrong. While I feel that the way a person is reared has a bearing on his/her value system, I do not believe that you can solely blame a parent for choices that their adult child may make. The value system that a child was raised believing in does not necessarily coexist with their value system as an adult. Assuming that an adult only learns and adheres to values set in their childhood allows one to shift blame for their own responsibilities and misconduct.
I would like to quote a posting that you made on Feb 9th, under the topic "My Story As It Stands"
QuoteAs everyone else said to you, which I echo, you are not alone, even though you feel you are....
I also experienced the very same thing you have, with my ex husband....finding out your husband ran around is devestating...however, you must believe above anything else, it wasn't you, you were not the reason he ran around! Believe that and repeat that over and over again....people run around on they're spouces b/c it's in them to do so, and not due to the spouce....it's just how they were raised, what they were raised to believe, and apparently your husband's parents didn't teach him fidelity to self. You cannot be true to anyone else if you can't be true to oneself.
I hope that this too was misinterpreted because it has a familiar ring of shifting responsibility from the party who should own it. As a parent I'm already held responsible for the way my three kids viewed their childhood, and all three have a different view.. now I am also to be credited and saddled with their shortcomings as adults regarding conscience decisions that they have made?
Quote from: Pooh on February 11, 2011, 11:07:37 AM
Ha ha ha rejected! Is your icon the evil stepmother in Snow White?
Why yes it is! ;D When I was in 3rd grade my elementary school did Snow White and I played the part of the Wicked Queen and since then I've just collected stuff centering her. She's my favorite Disney character, lol.
Laurie, I'm not talking about you....and how you raised your kids, and what I said, doesn't apply to everyone, and wasn't meant to be all negative....I was talking about those who come from homes that teach them it's ok to run around...like my ex-husband....both the uncle and the father, did so....and the mother believed it was ok, due to the way she was raised....it was they're culture....I remember after we were married, my now ex, telling me the stories of how his uncle told him, treat your wife like you would your mother, give her what she wants and be good to her, however, do not ever admit to running around....you never ever admit to it.....it's not everyone's culture, however, as someone mentioned, while we do have a choice, we only have our parents to learn from while little, until we leave the nest...
we learn morals, manners, spiritual beliefs, political beliefs, etc...we learn how to react and interact with people....
Again, it isn't written in stone, that we're going to be just like our parents, however, in some cases we do absolutely contribute to society due to our upbringing, we can choose to change the things we don't like, or not....my post was meant as pooh explained...however, there are cases in which adult children do not break the bad patterns of they're parents, such as child abuse, or one parent being very controlling. Or one parent being a bully, or one parent being constantly negative, or a bully....believe me, when our kids become adults, they do the same thing we did, we interact with many other people and decide what and who we want to be like, some of us, constantly try to change until the day we die...some of us do not...some of us remain bullies, some of us, are able to change those patterns and become a fine upstanding citizen, some need a huge amount of attention, or have to bbe right all the time, and will bully someone they do not like, or someone they are jealous of...and some through a tramatic life experience, realize they're errors and change they're ways...yes, we do have a choice, however, some are never aware enough to get it...which many of us here have seen in our interactions with inlaws, and other relationships...
If your mother wasn't much into cleaning, you very well, might be the same way, or not....it depends....if your father cheated on your mother and you knew about it, depending on the situation, you may do the same, or not....and I'm saying you in general, not you personally...some of us take the good we see in our parents and keep trying to be like that, and we leave the stuff we don't like, and go on to beak the pattern....people say, how did this person or that person get like that? It's years of conditioning....sometimes you have a parent, who doesn't believe at all in a child being repromanded and give that child it's way all throughout childhood, allowing them to make choices, that a child should not be making....when the child grows up and faces the real world, he/she is shell shocked, b/c he/she is not used to being said "no" to....there are tons of examples, both good and bad...and not all are bad....
some of us walk, talk, eat, think and even vote like our parents....or not...however, it's likely we have they're same mannerisums....some of us even pick mates like our parents, or not....it's not written in stone, that we all do...however, that is how societiest progress, or not....if kids grow up in a bad intellectual environment, chances are, they will not progress as much as the parent that encourages the child to excel, and get as much education as he/she can....and it goes on and one....
sometimes an abused child, will chose someone who abuses them for a mate, actually more oft times then not, b/c that is all they've known and they interrut that to be love....you cannot give what you've never known, and others progress through wanting so not to be like they're parents, through counseling and a lot of hard work....
and the beat goes on.....
Yes, I did agree that how we learn and perceive values starts at the moment of life... at some point we have a conscience choice and that is my point. You state that parental blame is not always the case, yet it's a crutch that is used repeatedly.
When does it stop... I feel that the man who willfully cheats on his wife, is making his own decision and most likely has nothing to do with his upbringing. Nor does it justify his choices. Childhood experiences do not give you a ticket to do as you choose throughout life. When advice is offered to another on this board and it is said, "people run around on they're spouces b/c it's in them to do so, and not due to the spouce....it's just how they were raised, what they were raised to believe, and apparently your husband's parents didn't teach him fidelity to self", are we not perpetuating the cycle of lies and convenient excuses?
My statement has nothing to do with my children, but with me as a parent. At what point do I get to step back and realize that they are their own people now. According to your belief that day never comes. Children take their childhoods then stand at a crossroad.. the decision belongs to them at that moment. I scrolled through some of your past postings and found where you state that your own mother was an abuser. According to you this was the reason for your stay at a foster care home. Taking that into account, you had a choice. Once you had a child you made the conscience choices, not your parents. I just hate to see the all encompassing statements made such the one I quoted above, it's not fair to parents, or to the woman you were attempting to show compassion towards.
Laurie
Yes, I did agree that how we learn and perceive values starts at the moment of life... at some point we have a conscience choice and that is my point. You state that parental blame is not always the case, yet it's a crutch that is used repeatedly.
Yes, we agree....I stated that, however, while I don't believe in it...some do...and that is why some never change....which is probably the case with most of our in-law problems, some of them will change, some will not....and yes,....absolutely used as a crutch.
When does it stop...?
It stops only if the person desires change...and admittedly realizes they're mistakes, which is very hard for some to do, to admit that they are wrong.
I feel that the man, who willfully cheats on his wife, is making his own decision and most likely has nothing to do with his upbringing. Nor does it justify his choices.
Right again, he is making his own decision to do so....however, in my ex's case, it had a lot to do with his upbringing/conditioning...he didn't break the pattern, just as some who are abused, abuse...they don't break the pattern....some do...because they have a choice...
It only stops if the person cheating wants it to stop, admits to wrong doing and seeks out help, in my ex's case he knew it was wrong, b/c he tried to hide it...however, he kept on doing it, because while growing up, his uncle and dad, verified that it's ok to do so, however, don't get caught. I don't justify it....not in the least. His own sister told me to leave, b/c she knew her brother had severe problems that he wasn't about to own up to and change...see, if he had admitted it, it would have meant he was indeed sorry and wanted to change and went for help.
Childhood experiences do not give you a ticket to do as you choose throughout life.
Your right, they do not, however, some people Laurie, do not see it as you do...they can't help themselves, for many reasons...others can...but we are who we are due to our upbringing and our own choices, and experiences.
When advice is offered to another on this board and it is said, "people run around on they're spouses b/c it's in them to do so, and not due to the spouse....it's just how they were raised, what they were raised to believe, and apparently your husband's parents didn't teach him fidelity to self", are we not perpetuating the cycle of lies and convenient excuses?
Exactly...No they did not teach him fidelity to self, and if he has no respect for himself, he has no respect for anyone else, if it is not in someone to do something; they will not do it...or visa versa
My statement has nothing to do with my children, but with me as a parent.
Yes indeed, and that is why parenting is a huge responsibility...if morals, self respect, confidence, and awareness that what we do and say, effects the lives of others in either a positive or negative way, how do children know? They know right from wrong, from the time they are born, however, if the parent enables them, from little on up, there is a chance, they will continue the pattern.
At what point do I get to step back and realize that they are their own people now.
From the time your children are born, they are they're own person, and it is up to the parent to teach them that also...instill confidence, and self respect, and the ability to assume ownership for choices...however, some parents never do that, that is why we have crime...infidelity...lack of education....
According to your belief that day never comes.
No, that is not my belief...I'll say again, some learn, some don't....how many times has it been said on this board, that they're DIL was raised like a princess...given everything she wanted...and is self imposed with no clue as to how her actions are now effecting the lives of not just her husband, but his entire family...? That is her parents fault...she was used to getting her way, and now she's all grown up and still insists on having things her way...she has probably never been taught how to share, how to deal with someone disagreeing with her...
Someone who is insecure takes things much more sensitively/personally then someone who was taught confidence in themselves....you can't give what you've never known.
Children take their childhoods then stand at a crossroad.. The decision belongs to them at that moment. I scrolled through some of your past postings and found where you state that your own mother was an abuser. According to you this was the reason for your stay at a foster care home. Taking that into account, you had a choice. Once you had a child you made the conscience choices, not your parents.
I hated the way my mother was....and your right I made a conscious choice...however, I could have very easily gone the other way as well, and become an abuser, but I sought out help...I wasn't in foster care, I had people who lived on the same street as I did, take me in...and raise me like one of they're own...I call them my foster parents, b/c I have no other way to describe them or differentiate them from my maternal mother.
I went home every night to my maternal mother...and I will state this, until the day I die...if it hadn't been for those people...who were a positive influence in my life, I would have turned out just like my mother...she would have been my only role model to parrot, instead, I saw, there was another side to life, to family, love, understanding, self respect...and I sought help at an early age, b/c I didn't want to become my mother...however, some people do...
My mother was the way she was, because she came up very hard, was abused very badly...she had only a 7th grade education...her mother died when she was very young...she was the oldest, she had to quit school and get a job in a sweat factory, raise all her sisters, hand over all her money to her drunken father who also sexually abused her..she was beaten and she beat me...she thought that was love...it was all she knew, she didn't have any positive influences in her life, that isn't an accuse, it's the way it was...she became very embittered...was a very jealous woman, hated everyone...was very angry, and never really grew up, she had only a 7th grade mentality as far as common sense and had no self esteem what so ever...she is a very very lonely woman...and always has been. When she became pregnant with me, yes, it was her choice, however, she was single and at that time, banned from society, that in itself is enough to drive anyone over the edge, compounded by her childhood...I'm not making excuses for her, some people should never be parents, and she was one of them...but I can also see, why she is and was the way she was....I don't think she viewed me as her daughter, I believe she saw me as her sister, b/c she was extremely jealous of me, my friends in school, my education...and hated it, when I excelled, did everything she could to stagnate me and punch me down...but that is the only life she ever knew...
I just hate to see the all encompassing statements made such the one I quoted above, it's not fair to parents, or to the woman you were attempting to show compassion towards.
Well, it wasn't an all encompassing statement, you took it that way...you don't know me, therefore, you have no idea how my mind works...as I you and everyone else here, that is why it's very important to discuss issues like we are now...I admit, I didn't make myself clear, hey, I'm not perfect....I knew what I was writing, but it didn't come out right, so shoot me....lol
But this is a perfect example as to how things are misunderstood....because,
1. We don't know each other
2. Because we can't see each others faces, expressions...
3. Because I didn't make myself more clear, never realizing that you would not be able
Understand, that I didn't mean it as an all encompassing statement...
However, again, if something isn't in a person to do or be, they won't do it...
If it isn't already in a young person to bully, they won't do it, and chances are, not always, but it is likely someone else in his family is also a bully...and or enables him to do so...there is no behavior modification...
And yes, all your kids have parts of you in them...it's genetic, along with how you raised them to believe...morals, values, confidence, awareness, spiritual beliefs...etc...yet, each of your children are very different in they're own being...but it is from you and your husband that they do develop...
and one more thing Laurie...you may hate to see statements made by people, on this board or any where else in your life time, however, the way you interpret them, is not always the way they are meant...you are not able to control the words of others, even if they did mean them the way you read them...like Luise always said, and I echo time and time again, "take what applies and leave the rest..." but that's life and people...we are not always on the same plain at the same time...we can't be...and you'd be wise to consider that...as well as me and everyone else in this world...this is again, a perfect example of how things are misunderstood and not meant as you took them...and why problems start with out inlaws...not every thing is black and white, rightor wrong...and you certainly cannot control how people think if it doesn't perfectly alighn with your thoughts and feelings...ask, instead of accussing, which is one heck of a good lesson for all of us to consider, don't you think?
Sorry.. I had a hard time getting through all that Creme. I can assure you that I am not out to dictate how you use your words, but I do know that my reading comprehension is not poor. Your warning, I have taken into consideration.
You have every right to continue to perceive every negative action as the responsibility of environment, upbringing, etc. I'm a believer in accepting that people make their own choices and then need to accept the consequences which comes from those choices.
QuoteWhen advice is offered to another on this board and it is said, "people run around on they're spouses b/c it's in them to do so, and not due to the spouse....it's just how they were raised, what they were raised to believe, and apparently your husband's parents didn't teach him fidelity to self", are we not perpetuating the cycle of lies and convenient excuses?
Exactly...No they did not teach him fidelity to self, and if he has no respect for himself, he has no respect for anyone else, if it is not in someone to do something; they will not do it...or visa versa
How can this assumption be made? To remove the blame from the individual and place it squarely on his parents shoulders is a great injustice for all of the people involved.
Once again I agree we are all a product of our environment, our thoughts, actions, behaviors, are directly or even indirectly related to our environment. Our parent's influences, their values etc. play a large role in who we are today but it can not be used as an excuse for poor or horrific and devastating decisions.
QuoteWell, it wasn't an all encompassing statement, you took it that way...you don't know me, therefore, you have no idea how my mind works...as I you and everyone else here, that is why it's very important to discuss issues like we are now...I admit, I didn't make myself clear, hey, I'm not perfect....I knew what I was writing, but it didn't come out right, so shoot me....lol
You are right...I don't know you, I don't know how your mind works, and all we do have are words and a few smiley faces to try and convey our thoughts, feelings, and beliefs. When I did ask for clarification of a statement and asked others if they felt the same way or read it the same way, offense was taken.
Laurie link=topic=1412.msg30709#msg30709 date=1297545229]
Sorry.. I had a hard time getting through all that Creme. I can assure you that I am not out to dictate how you use your words, but I do know that my reading comprehension is not poor. Your warning, I have taken into consideration.[/quote]
It wasn't a warning Laurie, merely a suggestion...
QuoteYou have every right to continue to perceive every negative action as the responsibility of environment, upbringing, etc. I'm a believer in accepting that people make their own choices and then need to accept the consequences which comes from those choices.
I can see your totally not getting what I'm trying to project, but thank you for the interaction....
QuoteHow can this assumption be made? To remove the blame from the individual and place it squarely on his parents shoulders is a great injustice for all of the people involved.
see, this is where your not getting it Laurie, I'm not removing any blame from the individual...not in the least....
but it can not be used as an excuse for poor or horrific and devastating decisions.
You are right...I don't know you, I don't know how your mind works, and all we do have are words and a few smiley faces to try and convey our thoughts, feelings, and beliefs. When I did ask for clarification of a statement and asked others if they felt the same way or read it the same way, offense was taken.
I don't understand Laurie, who took offense? I believe we were merely having a discussion, just as you and I are now....why would that offend anyone? Yes, they are my thoughts and feelings, which we all contribute to this forum...they disagreed which they have every right to do...but offense, I don't think so... ? But in the event anyone was offended, I'd like to apologize, I do truly believe in what I've written today...however, its a subject that cannot be black or white....I'm quit proud to have my parents thoughts, feelings, morals, both good and bad in me...if it were not for them, I wouldn't be here today...
thanks for the interaction, it was nice...I appreciate your kindness...and patience....
Back to the topic...Rejected, sorry to hijack your thread...and hope that there was something in what we were discussing that may have helped you understand...
I feel knowledge is power, and the more we know and understand why people act the way they do, the easier it is for us to interact with them...
Sometimes, people are just angry, period...and they don't even know why.
Creme,
I really did need some clarification on that statement also, but I'm not sure I was interpreting it negatively. I just really read it as a blanket statement. My thinking in reading it was that if we were solely products of our parents, there's not a whole lot I can do to change, and that I better be doubly careful when raising my DD, else she wouldn't be able to change.
Reading through your second posts does clean up the confusion, so I'm very glad that Laurie asked; I wasn't going to ask.
I'm glad Laurie asked as well...actually I was quite surprised, that so many of you took it that way...I'll have to keep trying to word my thoughts differently....
Rejected... I don't feel that your thread was hijacked but that some points needed to be clarified. Without knowing your mil, I'm asking this as no more then a possibility... My own MIL who I have spoken about on numerous occasions was always the most loving and giving individual. She without a doubt enhanced our lives by being a part of it. About ten years ago she started to develop a mobility problem, quickly this escalated into an emotional problem as well... upon examination by a qualified doctor she was diagnosed with depression. The point is, we started to see changes, this was not the same woman that took such an active part of our lives..... her diagnoses led us to help.
Your MIL, sounds to me like she is on an emotional roller coaster.. self pity, anger, lashing out and you are saying that it all started after the death of her husband. My fil would say.. well if you're depressed put on a happy song... he like so many others are not aware of the chemical imbalance in the brain and the complexities of depression. Nor was he fully aware of the possible medical treatments and counseling that is available. I say counseling because she has developed habits over this time frame. Chances are she may recognize her own destructive behavior but be helpless to react properly.
Quote from: justus on February 10, 2011, 01:08:22 PM
Rejected, I am going to advise you to keep your cards close to your chest. Every time you draw a line in the sand, your MIL can't help but step over it. She is just that kind of person. She loves the drama and she obviously has not respect for you. Besides, as you said, she considers you both to be children, so who are you to tell her what she can or cannot do? She'll show you!!!
So, don't tell her where the boundaries are, but give her natural consequences when she does cross a line. When she screams at your DH, he leaves no matter if he is in the middle of fixing her plumbing and the water is turned off. He tells her that he won't tolerated being treated like that and she can just call a plumber to finish the job. Call when she can behave like an adult. Same thing if she starts to criticizes you or your FOO. If he is on the phone, he hangs up and does not answer her phone calls for a while. Essentially, he puts her in time out. You have to give her reason to change.
About the gossiping, stop the information train. Don't tell one thing about your life. Give her vague answers like, "We haven't decided," or "Those plans are still in flux," or "I was told that in confidence and won't repeat it," or, "I don't want to talk about that," then change the subject. If she keeps coming back to it, repeat the same things or you say something in a teasing voice like, "Boy, you are being nosy today." If she gets upset say, "Someone is a bit sensitive." Then change the subject again. Remember that just because she asks a question, you don't have to answer. She is being nosy, insensitive and rude if she pursues a subject you don't want to talk about. End the visit or phone call if she is being too intrusive.
My own M asked me when DH and I were first dating if we were having sex. I was in my 30s at the time. She thought she had a right to the information because she asked and because she told me everything, so I should tell her everything. I told her that I wished she didn't tell me everything. No one should know about their parent's sex life what I knew, and she would never ever know about my sex life as it wasn't any of her business. Oh, she was mad, but she got over it. I won't be bullied into sharing private information.
BTW, she chooses to be lonely. It isn't your responsibility to make sure she has company. If she didn't want to be lonely, she could do something about it.
I don't know what to tell you about the siblings. My own siblings stopped talking to me because of my own Mother's poison. She essentially made them chose. Your H does not owe them an explanation. He has tried, they don't believe him, so stop trying. I finally told my DB that if M had a problem with me, she should act like an adult and deal with me directly instead of pulling him into it. He had nothing to say to that. I also told him that he just makes the problem worse by becoming involved. It worked for a little while, but M stepped things up because she wasn't getting her quota of attention from DB and DB had been trained from birth to give M what she wanted.
Yes, my M is a piece of work. She taught me how not to be an MIL and mother of adult children. Oh, I have messed up, but my children and SIL are much too valuable to me to drive them away like my M did me, DH and my DDs.
Great advise, justus! Lots of common sense. I've been getting away from my common sense the more I encounter nonsense (being pushed away without an explanation by those we love most). It was refreshing to read your words of wisdom. That's exactly the way I always believed, but I'm telling you - after being treated like we aren't important, like we are nobodies - it starts playing tricks on your mind. Just reading your post gave me strength.
Hugs, Hope
Quote from: Laurie on February 12, 2011, 06:24:02 PM
I say counseling because she has developed habits over this time frame. Chances are she may recognize her own destructive behavior but be helpless to react properly.
My MIL is very aware that she can see a counselor. It has even been recommended to her by many people such as her family, religious leaders, friends, co-workers (when she was working) and the counseling sessions would have been free as well (paid by her religious leader) but she absolutely refuses, even though she could pay for them herself now she still refuses. Also, before she retired she worked at a medical clinic so I'm pretty sure she knows there are some meds out there that could help her out.
Sorry I failed to mention this before, but before her husband passed away I've heard people refer to her as a "hard woman" and that she wore the pants in her marriage. So she wasn't this gentle, kind soul before, just more pleasant. The neediness, pity, and feeling of entitlement is what has developed after. She thinks that since she's experienced this horrendous tragedy that everyone should feel sorry for her and help her with everything 11 years later. Even around his passing day, birthday, anniversary she expects flowers from people. Our first year of marriage we bought her flowers and the first words out of her mouth were "oh you're in-charge of the flowers this year?" I understand these are difficult days for her, as those days(among others) are hard for me but I don't expect everyone to cater to me. She shows no sympathy to me on my hard days(not that I expect or want it) Unfortunately my late DH's passing day is my MIL birthday (awkward) and she tries to throw herself birthday parties & gets ticked when we say we're not coming. Sorry but I don't feel like partying on the anniversary of my DH's death. And a lot of years it's not just the day I have a hard time with, I sometimes hit slumps and I'm depressed for a few days. Last year she said it was a Father's Day dinner and being that DH's dad passed away I thought it was a way they kept him in their lives and so we went, come to find out she had made herself a birthday cake and had some present to open. I know and understand that we all grieve differently but it makes a difference when the grieving involves depending on other people.
I wholeheartedly agree that she needs to see a therapist but she is very stubborn and absolutely will not, nor does she believe she needs any medications to help her.
It's a shame that she is refusing, but this does not surprise me in the least.... Hard woman or not, these are not normal behaviors and eventually she will cross the magic line and possibly be court ordered to that medical evaluation.
At this point I think I'd stop wasting my tire tread and make a united stance on what you will and will not participate in. The first thing that eliminated would be the mandatory flowers in my book. Your dh is doing the right thing by leaving when mom starts revving it up to an unacceptable level.. One thing he may not realize.. when he does leave with anger smoking at his tires, she has succeeded. If you and dh come up with your tentative list on what you will and will not participate in I think you may take the play out of her game.
I'm glad that you recognize that this could be a condition based on medical needs and that she may not be in complete control of her life and actions... it doesn't make it better, but it does help you to retain compassion for the woman.
When my own mil went through this, of course she fought us... finally I went to her dr and asked about the choices that may be available to her.. I ended up saying well if she isn't going to take the Celexa then I will because I was being as effected by her drama as she was creating it. Within months, I was able to take the 'me' out of her problems and that helped us deal with the situation much better... wishing you luck
Ya know, I am so tired of all this -can we all try to get along? How old are we here? And why do some of you think you have all the answers? Are we not allowed to voice our own opinions to help someone with out being shot down by some? If some of you think you are so perfect and have all the right answers--then why are you on this forum for?
Controversy and debate are not necessarily bad. We are a motley crew of divergent individuals. We can at times deteriorate into badgering and negativity, however. When a thread gets "hot" sometimes I lock it. That wouldn't be necessary if those who found it unpleasant just hopped over to some other topic. When explanations of explanations get repetitious, it's often time to move on. Nes pa?
Quote from: Laurie on February 13, 2011, 06:09:43 AM
It's a shame that she is refusing, but this does not surprise me in the least.... Hard woman or not, these are not normal behaviors and eventually she will cross the magic line and possibly be court ordered to that medical evaluation.
At this point I think I'd stop wasting my tire tread and make a united stance on what you will and will not participate in. The first thing that eliminated would be the mandatory flowers in my book. Your dh is doing the right thing by leaving when mom starts revving it up to an unacceptable level.. One thing he may not realize.. when he does leave with anger smoking at his tires, she has succeeded. If you and dh come up with your tentative list on what you will and will not participate in I think you may take the play out of her game.
I'm glad that you recognize that this could be a condition based on medical needs and that she may not be in complete control of her life and actions... it doesn't make it better, but it does help you to retain compassion for the woman.
When my own mil went through this, of course she fought us... finally I went to her dr and asked about the choices that may be available to her.. I ended up saying well if she isn't going to take the Celexa then I will because I was being as effected by her drama as she was creating it. Within months, I was able to take the 'me' out of her problems and that helped us deal with the situation much better... wishing you luck