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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: chickensouped on March 17, 2015, 04:32:40 PM

Title: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: chickensouped on March 17, 2015, 04:32:40 PM
I have a DIL-we we'll call her Stacey. Stacey is the mother of two of my grandkids, two girls who are 5 and 7. Stacey is aloof and distant. She is never one to help out our family in a time of crisis and tends to stick very, very close to her family, especially her mom, to whom she is joined at the hip with.

Stacey reluctantly if ever, comes to family functions. She does not attend holidays such as Xmas or Thanksgiving. She and my son live an hour away. She sends him over with the kids and has since they could walk. Even still, we only get a snippet of time. The majority of the holidays and just time in general is spey with Stacey's family. Stacey lives across the street from her parents and down the street from her grandparents. Her sister and her sister's family live 10 minutes away.

I have spoken to my son about this, but he travels all the time for his job and he does not want to deal with a grouchy mom, he wants to enjoy his wife and kids. None of my family is on Stacey's social media-she has it set to private-and she is not on social media with us. All contact with her goes through my son. They have a you deal with yours and I deal with mine deal in regards to inlays.

That means I am out of the loop and no pics or updates, as my son is forgetful and has never been one to stay in touch.

I have a daughter and two other sons and they all take turns hosting events, holidays, etc. Stacey has never done this and she does not invite us for meals.

This past Sunday she came to my husband's birthday dinner and everyone was excited because next summer, we will have our first family reunion in 20 years! My daughter and I broke the news to Stacey and told her we needed her help. She looked at us blankly and said, "But they're not MY family. MY family  had their reunion last year. " My jaw dropped. My two granddaughters were right there and heard their mother say that she does not consider my family to be hers.

She is telling them that basically her family is their "Real" family. It's bad enough that we rarely see them and when we do, we have to work on making them comfortable around us, as both families are very different and they are not used to us and our more boisterous dealings. My son did not hear this and I wonder if I should tell him of my hurt and this insult and how to respond to my DI L about it.
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: luise.volta on March 17, 2015, 05:40:28 PM
Welcome, C. Sorry I lost your first post. Thank you for re-posting! We ask all new members to go to our HomePage and under Open Me First to read the four posts placed there for you. Please pay special attention to the Forum Agreement to be sure WWU is a fit for you. We are a monitored Website.

My experience was somewhat similar. It was hard for me to get that our very minimal expectations were not going to be fulfilled and DH and I were not going to be treated with equality or even respect. What it finally came down to was my son wasn't willing to support us. Without that the relationship deteriorated until we had to simply accept that they were adults making their own rules in their own home. We got that our job was done and eventually turned elsewhere for compatible interactions. We lost contact with our grand kids and knew it was their parents choice and honored that. It took a long time but we are leading full and satisfying lives that are not connected with our biological roles. We did our best. We know that. Sending hugs...
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: jdtm on March 18, 2015, 05:49:57 AM
QuoteShe looked at us blankly and said, "But they're not MY family.

Well, you know where you stand.  Our DIL also treated us badly and let us know that we were not her family (and second-class, at that) - and I did everything that I suspect you are doing to try to build and keep my family (or at least my ideas of what a family should be).  Her ideas did not mesh with mine and our son did not stand up for us.  Eventually, she left him and abandoned her children and he has since remarried.  This "new" DIL does not exclude us from "family gatherings", but she does not include us either.  Frankly, we just don't register on her mind/agenda (at least it is not with the hatred that we had from ex-DIL).  At least we are civil to each other, and it appears that you too have civility from your son and your son's family.  Sometimes, that is all we get - not fair, but it is what it is.

This year the presents/money for birthdays, Easter, Christmas, anniversaries, etc. will stop - not the cards (and maybe a small gift card enclosed). Last evening I told my husband that we would be celebrating holidays with our family "no more".  After almost two decades of being "ignored" (insert begging, pleading, crying, etc.), it is time to stop this; it is time to consider "us" instead of always "them".  As you can see, I am a slow learner.  I so wanted things to be different; but they are not.  So sorry .... 
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Pooh on March 18, 2015, 05:58:36 AM
Welcome.  Although I know that hurts to hear, like jdtm said, at least she was honest about where you stand with her.

Unfortunately, that is a choice she gets to make.  It's her life and she gets to pick who she spends her time with.  Not how we wanted it, but just how it is.  It sounds like from your post, that her boundaries have been set.  No social media with your side, no attendance at major holidays, no helping on anything to do with your side but she will send the kids with DH to see you.  Not the most ideal situation, but those are the ground rules with her and at least she is being crystal clear on them.

Does that stink?  Well yeah.  Is it how you want it?  Well no.  Is this what you have to change your expectations to?  Definitely.   We trip ourselves up between what we had as expectations versus what they have as reality.  It's our job to refocus our expectations to fit the reality and try to be grateful for the time you do get with the DH and GC's.  Some of us, aren't even granted that time and have no contact.  I would be happy with your situation.  I'm not saying your situation isn't ideal, it's not, just throwing out a different perspective.
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: chickensouped on March 18, 2015, 10:37:14 AM
First of all, thank you for your support. I am wondering, should I bring this up to my son at all. I just feel like this is the type of thing that needs to be talked about. I do not like how that comment could possibly have hurt my grandchildren and warped their idea of what family is.
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: luise.volta on March 18, 2015, 10:46:24 AM
My take is no, it's their issue and you can't monitor what is said in front of or to the grand kids. Most of the time you don't even know. DIL is how she is and DS isn't going to change that. To keep peace, he probably won't even take issue with it. The only consolation in my circumstances is that I have found out that, for me, there is life after parenting and grandparenting. Hugs...
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Pooh on March 18, 2015, 10:56:58 AM
My take is no too.   Especially since you said you had already spoken to him before and he doesn't want to deal with her being grouchy.  IF, and I'm just speculating, he was to speak to her and back her into a corner, about the only thing she has left to do to you is not let him bring the kids over at all.  Sorry, but if someone has no qualms about telling you to your face and in front of her children that your family is not her family, I would think she wouldn't hesitate to use her last option.

We also never know what's going on in someone's relationship.  What if your DS has tried in the past to talk to her about his family?  And her stance over that is, "You can take the kids but I'm not going."  What he is doing now may be the result of him trying.  We never know.  I can just tell you from personal experience, that speaking to my DS about the situation only made it worse and lost me all contact with them.
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: jdtm on March 18, 2015, 12:16:44 PM
chickensouped - please listen to Luise and Pooh.  I have no doubt that your DIL would play the last card she has and try to keep the grandchildren from you (as well as your son).  After all, you are not family (she has already decided that).  Perhaps when the grandchildren are older and they are able to make their own decisions, you may be able to forge a stronger tie to them.   This is what happened to us - we are closer to our grandchildren than our son and his new wife.   But, maybe next year ....
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Stilllearning on March 19, 2015, 01:20:15 AM
Quoteboth families are very different and they are not used to us and our more boisterous dealings

I bet when the grands grow up they will prefer to spend  their time with the boisterous family!!   I would not talk to my DS but I would go out of my way to include my grands and their mother in all of my family's fun events!  And I know it sounds catty but I might even start phrasing it that way.......
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: chickensouped on March 19, 2015, 10:38:13 AM
I took your advice-excellent-and stepped away from all this? I managed to put it out of my mind until I got an email from DIL this morning. I am summing it up for you and I am recuperating from it and trying to process my thoughts.

In the email, DIL confessed to having been cold to me since the wedding and even at the ceremony. DIL stated the reason for that was because a few months before the wedding, she and my son had come to visit us and she overheard me asking my son if he was sure that he was ready to get married, that I didn't want him to make a mistake and get hurt.

DIL then went on to say that also during the conversation, I had pointed out that her father was a recovering alcoholic, that though he had been sober for a while, addiction is a big thing and can run in families. What if DIL had the gene and would pass it onto the kids. I also noted how DIL's mom had been married twice before she married DIL's dad and that there were multiple marriages on both sides of DIL's family. I told my son that worried me as it seemed to hint at instability.

DIL said she remembered my son reassuring me that he would be happy and that things would be fine and to just be there and support.

I never knew that DIL overheard those things-this has been over 10 years and she has nursed that grudge this whole time. DIL went onto say that I looked down on her and her family for not being perfect and that I had no right to do so. She said my attitude is the reason why she could never feel comfortable around my family.

I am flabbergasted. What now?
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: luise.volta on March 19, 2015, 11:25:42 AM
My take would be to apologize for my thoughtlessness and to thank her for her candid information. I wouldn't hide behind being a loving mother. She knows that. It was human to be concerned but to express it when there was any chance of it being overheard was untenable. Just my take, remember. Always take what you want here and leave the rest. More hugs...
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Pooh on March 19, 2015, 11:26:35 AM
Well.  That opens up a whole new thing now.

First, I'm not siding with her on you asking your DS if he was ready to get married.  I think that is a parent/child conversation that is pretty standard in most homes.  It's us being a "Mother" and having a wealth of experience to draw from knowing marrying young is tough.  I wanted both my Sons to be mature enough to handle all the responsibilities that came along with marriage. 

BUT, and here come the big BUT.  Doing it with her present in the house was probably not the best idea.  Also, the other things you said?  I can see where that would have upset me too.  She probably had enough stress dealing with her recovering alcoholic Father that the last thing she needed was someone judging her family.  As far as multiple marriages go...again, I have to say that was harsh.  I was married before and my DH was married before.  I'm grateful no one looked down on us when we decided to marry because the truth be known (and I didn't advertise it), my Ex left me for another woman and his Ex had an affair on him a couple of years prior.  My Mother divorced because my Father was an alcoholic and had multiple affairs on her, and was a horrible person.  That had no bearing on the type of person my Mother was.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad, because we have all probably said things to our children, because we are worried about them, that probably would have hurt someone's feelings had they heard us.  Lord knows there were a couple of times that I had to sit my Sons down and tell them I didn't want them hanging out with a certain friend because I knew he was drinking and doing drugs and I didn't want them around him.  Had that person heard that, true or not, I'm sure they wouldn't have wanted to have anything to do with me.  The difference is....she did hear you and your words were probably very hurtful to her.

Ok, so that's done.  You did it, she heard it and now you have to own it.  I definitely would be apologizing immediately.  Maybe send back a very apologetic email saying you are so sorry that you said those things. That you didn't mean to hurt her but now you know you did, how could you make it better? No wonder she didn't see you as family and didn't want to be around you.   Maybe an invitation to lunch somewhere to talk and let you apologize in person?

Whatever you do, own it and don't put it back on her.  Don't make excuses for why you said it.  Just apologize and ask what you can do now to show her that you are really glad that she is part of your family.  Then it's on her if she will forgive and want to move forward.
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: chickensouped on March 19, 2015, 12:34:39 PM
I want to apologize and I am trying to find the words to do so. The conversation was so long ago that I really didn't remember it till I saw the email this morning. To me, it doesn't matter, because the kids are fine and from what I can see, the marriage is solid. But obviously, it means a lot to her,

What I am most concerned about are two things and this is where I need your sound advice, ladies:

1) What are the chances that if I send this apology, she will think it too little, too late and that I am only sending it so I can have more time with the grandkids?

2) Also, did my son she knew of the conversation and he never told me? Should I tell him about the email and ask him if that is the case, that he knew she heard our talk?

Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: luise.volta on March 19, 2015, 03:47:48 PM
My take: What she thinks is about her not you. And I would leave it alone with DS. It's about simplification and turning the page...letting go and moving on.
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Pen on March 19, 2015, 11:26:29 PM
CS, you've received much wisdom. My hope is for healing for you and yours.

Once my DS & (then) future-DIL decided to get married it was difficult to talk to DS privately. I'm guessing if I'd had a chance anything I said would have been passed on to DIL anyway.

Lessons learned.

Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Stilllearning on March 20, 2015, 03:38:00 AM
Funny, I think that she had to go a long way back to find something worse to hold over your head.  She messed up and it took her some real thinking to find a time when you messed up that was anything close to equal.  I think I would let it sit for a while.  If she ever brings it up again I would point out that she used that chit up already. Hopefully it will remind her of what she did wrong and she will stop talking.  Bringing up things that are so old is a sign of a person who does not know how to settle things, so arguments are never about things changing for the better.....they are always about who is right.  Not a very adult way of handling things.  I can almost hear the foot stomp and the door slam at the end of the conversation. 
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: jdtm on March 20, 2015, 06:12:54 AM
I have found that when I do not know what to do or what to say, then I do/say nothing.  Then, if I am accused of my actions or words, I know why - "nothing".  Besides, you can always "pretend" that you did not read that e-mail - not that I would lie if she asked, but if she doesn't .....
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Pooh on March 20, 2015, 08:16:07 AM
I'm still under the opinion you need to apologize.  It doesn't have to be anything fancy.  Just a simple, "I'm so very sorry for saying those things years ago.  I hope you accept my apology and that we can start fresh."  I wouldn't make it anything more than that or you'll find yourself getting into the "reasons" you said what you said. 

Then, it truly is in her court.  You can't make her forgive you and you can't guess on what she will do.  You will at least know you apologized and if she chooses to not accept it, you did your best.  This is just me, but if I truly did something, I will apologize, no ifs and or buts.  It I'm guilty, then I owe an apology.  If I told someone they did something to me and they really did and remember it, and then I didn't get any kind of acknowledgement at all.......that would actually be the last time I tried and I would think worse of the person.

I agree with Luise.  I wouldn't even bring it up to DS. 
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Stilllearning on March 20, 2015, 08:32:28 AM
I learned to stop listening in on other people's conversations because you can get hurt.  My older sister hurt me so badly complaining to my Mom about me when I was really little that I would rather stick a knife in my ear than surreptitiously listen to someone else's conversation.  What other people think of me is not my problem.  If they want to tell me about it then I will deal with it but not before.  We all say things that would hurt people's feelings if they were listening and I am sure your DIL has had many a  catty comment over the years.  In my opinion your DIL shares the blame for this.  That is why I would just let it slide, like she should have.
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Lillycache on March 20, 2015, 11:32:57 AM
Well CS... looks like she gave you a rational answer and the fact that you remember the conversation is good.  At least you know what you will apologize for.  I agree.. that you should apologize and tell her you are happy to have some insight into what may have caused her behavior.     In my case, I wish I had something I remember.    My DIL just told me that I said horrible things to her mother and aunt and I have ZERO recollection of ever having a conversation with them let alone an altercation.    She refuses to tell me what it was I said.  So for years I have racked my brain over and over trying to remember anything that could even be construed as "horrible".    SO I  have to conclude that I am either crazy, demented, or that she is lying.   Guess what I have decided on..  lol!!   I hope that things will improve for you.. 

Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: herbalescapes on March 21, 2015, 05:19:40 AM
I think you have overreacted to DIL's statement that your family is not her family.  That's not an insult, that's just a fact.  She did not tell your GD that her relatives are their real family and dad's relatives are not.  Kids understand that they get some things from mom and some things from dad.  Those things may be talents, physical attributes, religion, ethnicity or even relatives.  Your GD understand that you're their GM because you're dad's mom, not mom's mom.  No judgment or insult, just fact.  Some people consider ILs family, some do not.  It's not right or wrong, just different ways to deal with life.  There's a saying, "There's no insult where none is taken."  This would put you in the driver's seat regarding her comments.

I don't understand why you told DIL you needed her help for the family reunion.  First of all, it's not your place to tell DIL she has to do anything.  She's an adult, not your minor child.  You don't get to tell her she has to devote her time/energy/finances to a party you want to throw.  You should have ASKED for her help.  Even then, I don't understand why you didn't ask your son for his help.  It seems like you are falling into the trap of giving the DS a pass for not maintaining family relationships, but then blaming DIL for not picking up his slack.  If the family reunion isn't important enough to DS to make time and effort for it's success, why should it be important enough to DIL?

Don't underestimate the impact of differing personalities/temperaments/etc.  You describe your family as boisterous while DIL is more private.  To a private person, boisterous people can be very stressful.  This doesn't mean you and your family are doing anything wrong.  You are just different.  You can't expect DIL to just jump in and enjoy the boisterousness.  My DH's family loves to golf. I do not. I've tried it; not my thing.  They are perfectly free to arrange golfing outings.  They are not perfectly free to make me a bad guy because I don't join them. 

Also don't underestimate the difficulties of being an hour away.  Do you expect DIL to cut back on time spent with her family because she can't/won't bring the GD to visit you more often?  Do you expect DIL to make more of an effort to travel 2 hours roundtrip to even up time spent with both sides of the family?  This goes back to your DS not being willing to make more of an effort.  If it's not important enough to him, why should it be important to DIL?

I don't know if you should apologize to DIL or not for the comments you made years ago.  If you do, you have to be sure it's a true apology.  Not "I'm sorry but I was only worried/concerned." You also have to be sure that down the line you don't back track on any apology you make.  Five years from now would you be able to resist saying, "I've apologized for those comments but she's still so cold.  What does she expect?  I was just a mother worried about her son.  Granted it turned out my worries didn't come to fruition, but it was a legitimate concern at the time." I always think an insincere apology is worse than an insincere one and back tracking on an apology causes more damage than not giving one in the first place. 

As others have pointed out, you don't want to lose what you already have.  You have to decide if apologizing, speaking to your son, making demands of DIL will improve or worsen your situation.  Good luck.
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Lillycache on March 21, 2015, 03:17:45 PM
Most people think that when a man and a woman marry, they become one.   Therefore.. His family is your family and yours his.  Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I believe this...  You don't have to like or agree with everything your spouses family does, but at least acknowledge that they are family... 
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Stilllearning on March 23, 2015, 03:56:31 AM
I agree with Lilly here.  Although I was not really close to my in laws at first if anything had happened to them I would have been right next to my DH helping out, and after all isn't that what family is all about?  My FIL died just a few years after we got married and both myself and my DH called my MIL regularly for months (close to a year) to check on her and be sure she was ok.   To me if I had not helped during that period I would have been abandoning my DH and his family.  I guess I just find it hard to draw a line between my them.  If they hurt, he hurts and if I can do anything to help my DH out I am going to do it.  Anyone who abandons their spouse's family effectively abandons their spouse if something happens to their spouse's family.  I cannot see a situation where I would say, "She is your mother, you go to her funeral".  Same thing with step children..... "She's your daughter...you go to her wedding"....yeah, right.  Not happening in my family!!
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: NewMama on March 23, 2015, 06:31:59 AM
Not everyone feels that way about ILs being "family." It's not wrong, it's just different. Different doesn't equal wrong.

My DH does not view my FOO as his family now - he's told me so. He also finds it very strange that I consider his FOO my family now. None of this is an issue, because neither of us choose to make it one. We just see things differently, I'd be picking a fight if I tried to tell him he should be seeing my FOO as his now. Why bother? He's supportive of us and the kids having a relationship with them, he shows up to family functions, is pleasant and gets along with everyone, and he's been supportive of me using my time and energy to help during family stresses.

What "family" is can vary greatly from person to person, and one person's definition is may not fit with another and it's impossible to impose your definition on another person. Different is not wrong. 
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: chickensouped on March 25, 2015, 09:13:37 AM
I admit that maybe my thinking was not the best. Like Lilycache, I too believe that you marry the man and his family, that you take on the responsibility of each other's family. My DIL does not believe this and I have many other friends with married sons who have DILs with the same feelings, who look at you sideways if you dare ask them to lift a finger in service of their husband's family. (I even had one friend who was visiting her son and his wife and she made the mistake of politely asking her DIL for a glass of water. The DIL snapped at my friend and told her, "I'm not your servant. You know where the kitchen is.')

Therefore, I guess I was wrong. I told DIL that I needed her help, because well a family reunion is a lot to deal with and we need all the help we can get and she is family. I didn't mean it as order, I thought it would be a fun project and that the grandkids would love to learn of their heritage.

I did email my DIL and apologized for what I had said years earlier. Waiting to hear back.
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: herbalescapes on March 30, 2015, 11:37:02 AM
What made you think DIL would consider arranging a party would be fun?  The way you describe her makes it seem like the exact opposite.  It's all fine and well to say you marry into a family and take on the responsibility of that family, but why is your DS excused from the responsibility?  If you need all the help you can get, why haven't you asked for his help?  It comes across as very sexist and I know many DILs hate that.  Don't expect DIL to do more than your DS just because she has a second X chromosome.  Did DS help her FOO plan and execute their family reunion last year? 
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: chickensouped on March 30, 2015, 01:03:19 PM
I just thought it would be a fun family project for everyone to work on. I did ask DS and he said it's not his thing. HE suggested I ask DIL. I did and got the documented response, which was disappointing. All I am asking for is time and effort, however it comes into being an extended family. That's it.
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: luise.volta on March 30, 2015, 01:20:48 PM
Please remember, CS, to take what you want here and leave the rest. Sometimes we get agreement here and sometimes we get another was to look at something, if we're interested. The hardest thing for me to learn with my elder son was that my wants, opinions, points of view and expectations were mine, not his or DILs, and had no obligation to fulfill any of them. It took a long time and was painful but that's what was needed and it worked. :-) Sending hugs...
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Pooh on March 31, 2015, 06:55:37 AM
CS, you apologized and that is really all you can do.  Don't second guess you telling DIL you needed her help with the family reunion.  It's all about people and their perceptions and how they choose to take something.  My house, if DH's family has a get-together, he and I both pitch in.  If my side has something, we both pitch in.  His family is my family, my family is his family.  If his Mother looked at me and said, "I need you to help me with XXXXX", I wouldn't bat an eye, I wouldn't take offense and I definitely wouldn't think it was sexist because she asked me and not DH.   It doesn't matter if it is or isn't, it's all about how a person chooses to take things, and unfortunately, that is not something you can control. 

She may think that way and it may be how her personality takes things.  Not wrong, we are all just different people.  And the down side is, those two personalities will always have a hard time getting along.  Not everyone would feel that way, but there are those that would.  That's not about you.  That's about them.

I decided that walking on eggshells and worrying about if everything I said was going to offend my DIL was driving me batty.  She could take anything you said and turn it into some sort of offense.  I accepted that she was a totally different personality, but she couldn't give me the same courtesy. So I made the decision to stop being someone I wasn't and she could either learn to accept me or she couldn't.  Her choice.  She chose not to.  Her loss.

Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Stilllearning on April 01, 2015, 05:39:40 AM
I agree with Pooh.  I bent myself around every which a way trying to get along with my now DIL before the wedding.  Nothing worked until I stopped trying.  Then she got pregnant and I really held no hope of getting to know the grand.  Then things suddenly changed.  I have no idea why but my DS called from the hospital and you could tell that he was a little hurt because we waited until the second day to visit our first grand.  Maybe my DIL realized that she was hurting him as much as me.  I don't know but things started to improve.

Now my second GC is on the way (same DIL) and she and I are getting along pretty well.  I know I have said things that I would not have said if I had thought about it but she is evidently forgiving my minor faux pas instead of blowing them way out of proportion.  Things are pretty good although I have to admit that I will never be as close to my DS as I used to be.  After all the cold shoulders and silent treatments I do not think I will ever allow him that kind of access to my heartstrings again.  Oh well, it was time I guess. 
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Green Thumb on April 02, 2015, 03:23:49 PM
I am sorry this has turned out like this for you but at least you know what she is thinking. Whether you said it or not is no longer the issue.  If you want to improve your relationship with her, then you have to lovingly apologize and own your mistakes.
I think I would say something like "I am so sorry that I said all those things way back then. I was wrong, I didn't know you well and was being too motherly. My son chose you and he chose well and I should have trusted him more and been less controlling. Time has shown me what a smart, loving woman you are (put in your own adjectives that are true). Can you find it in your heart to forgive me? (Very important words) I value your friendship love, whatever, and hope someday to be able to make amends. I truly understand how you have been hurt all these years. I would have been hurt if I had heard my future MIL say the same things about me."

What she heard long ago was that she wasn't good enough for you for her son. Ouch!!! This is why she has not embraced your family.  It is the same thing you felt when she said your family is not her family.

Email the response and then send her flowers.
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: clover on April 10, 2015, 05:58:26 PM
You do owe her an honest apology, but know that an apology will not make everything better. You treated her like bad breeding stock rather than a person. You questioned her ability to provide a stable environment for her kids. You used her own scars and pain to paint her in a negative light. That sort of pain only grows with time if you're expected to play happy family with the person who slandered you that way.

Frankly, I wouldn't have married your son in her position. He should have shot you down long before you managed to get that much out. If anyone in my family had ever said those sorts of things about my husband after we were engaged they would no longer be considered family. And the same goes for my husband. See we think that family is made, not just born. Once someone crosses certain lines, I'm done. Talking about my spouse like he's a poorly bred dog is one of those lines. (Stealing from us, insulting our religion, exposing minors to hard drugs and insinuating that our child was not fathered by my husband also make that list. Sadly we've had to deal with these.) DNA or no, anyone who mistreats my husband and children is automatically out. And if I hold someone who is not blood related dear, they are family. My best friend is family. My mother's brothers are not. My stepdad's sane brother is family. His lazy, greedy, petty brother is not. My step grandparents are family. My paternal grandparents are not.

So remember that in all reality you're lucky. It would have been 100% understandable to some people if your DIL refused to ever let you lay eyes on her kids. You called her an unfit mother before she was even pregnant, then said that you wanted her to act like family. When you were asking her to help at the family reunion I can guarantee that she was thinking "When MIL has nothing to gain I'm no more family than a poorly bred animal. When she wants something from me, THEN I'm 'family.'" The fact that she consented to any kind of relationship makes her a more patient woman than many.

All that being said, the relationship may be salvageable. My suggestion is give her a sincere apology. Then back off. Don't push. Give her the space to heal that she never got. And if she does come around again don't expect her to act like family. Remember that her kids and husband are just that: hers. Your extended family does not trump her nuclear family, or even her extended family. Don't cross even the slightest boundary. Respect her and your DS as autonomous adults. The path to healing in any relationship is long. This is especially true in complicated, messy relationships like DIL/MIL relationships often are. But it is still possible.
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Stilllearning on April 10, 2015, 06:16:23 PM
OMG Clover, life has a lot to teach you.  Such black and white thinking becomes more difficult to defend when we get older.  Good luck!! 
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: clover on April 10, 2015, 08:04:14 PM
Quote from: Stilllearning on April 10, 2015, 06:16:23 PM
OMG Clover, life has a lot to teach you.  Such black and white thinking becomes more difficult to defend when we get older.  Good luck!!

You could be right. I don't think so, though. To me it really is that simple. My husband is my first priority and I am his. We are the nuclear family. Our bond takes precedence. Over his parents, my parents, whoever. When our kids get married one day, their spouse will be their first priority.

And I would never, ever expect my daughter to tolerate abuse simply because she shares a little bit of DNA with someone. Maybe it's because I grew up with a lot of the same assumptions made about me. My bio dad has Bipolar I. Mom was the black sheep of her family. So, clearly I was a ticking time bomb. *Eyeroll* At the age of 18 I started removing everyone who ever treated me like a second class citizen from my life. Why live with such abuse when you don't have to?

And that's exactly what happened to the DIL here. She was treated like she was inferior due to factors that she had no control over. It's no wonder she was resentful! Call it black and white if you like, but that's my take on things. The most complicated problems usually boil down to the simplest solution. And the obvious solution, to me, is to show DIL that you respect her and view her as an equal. Not say it, but show it.
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: luise.volta on April 10, 2015, 08:35:25 PM
I remember what happened to you early on in your marriage, Clover. I also remember what you did to get past it. Yes, you have strong opinions and of course they don't work for everyone. WWU is a safe place to agree to disagree. And Stilllearning...to me you make just as much sense.

My own take is that how the DIL in this conflict reacted was a lot about her. I say that because years ago my dearest friend had such a high opinion of herself that when someone said something thoughtless or vicious, she would look at me in confusion and ask me what was wrong with that person that they had such a distorted concept of her. And then she'd never give it another thought...truly.

The reason I found that so amazing was because if I got even a dirty look from someone, anyone, it very made me sick in bed. I would anguish about it and was hurt to the core. My friend wasn't right but /and neither was I. We came from different backgrounds and had different personalities. I was a people pleaser. It took me decades until I could stand my ground and then doing that made me sick in bed for another decade. Whew...
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: clover on April 10, 2015, 08:53:18 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on April 10, 2015, 08:35:25 PM
I remember what happened to you early on in your marriage, Clover.

I think you may have me confused with someone. Today is my first day posting here. Found this forum in a unrelated search and I identified so much with DIL that I felt the need to present what her perspective might be like. Been lurking this afternoon and it's really given me some insight into how my own MIL might feel about certain issues. Wise women, indeed! :)
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: luise.volta on April 10, 2015, 09:23:44 PM
My sincere apology, C. We had a young DIL here years ago with that name with views very similar to yours. We started out as MothersinLawsUnite but very soon so many truly great DILs joined us that we changed the name. :-)

So, welcome, C. We ask all new members to go to our HomePage and under Open Me first, to read the five posts placed there for you. Please pay special attention to the Forum Agreement to be sure WWU is a fit. We're a monitored Website. We don't do debate here and are careful to remember that our opinions at not facts to anyone but us. The well known 'take what you want and leave the rest' is pretty much a ground rule. We've been around for a many years. I own the site and my son, Kirk, is our Webmaster. I'm 88 years old. :-)
Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: Pooh on April 15, 2015, 11:11:33 AM
I was getting ready to write the same thing.  I came close to writing, "Welcome back Clover". Ha ha.   So welcome new Clover. :)

Here's my honest take from being on both sides of this.  A horrible MIL the first go around, a great one second go around.  A really great DIL and a horrible DIL.

People are human.  There is no one ever on the face of the earth not going to say something or do something to hurt someone else's feelings.  We are all human and we all can say or do things, many times unintentionally, that cause hurt feelings.  We also, as Mothers, say things in a Mothering role that can be taken badly by another person, that it not intentional. 

I can remember turning my head on my youngest in a store one time for a minute and when I turned around, he was talking to this very unkempt strange man standing a few feet from me.  I immediately walked over, took his hand and said, "Come on XXXX.  We have shopping to finish."   I walked a few feet and whispered loudly, "XXXX, I have told you before, we do not talk to strangers. It's dangerous!"  In my fright of turning to find him right next to this "stranger", I said it too loudly and when I looked back, the man was standing there with such a sad look on his face.  I knew he had heard me and I felt terrible about it.  In trying to teach my child a "motherly" lesson, I had hurt this person's feelings.  He could have been the nicest person in the world for all I knew.

You can see from earlier, that I don't agree with what the OP said and I thought she needed to make her apologies.  I don't think she said anything to purposefully hurt her DIL, but was in her "mothering" role with her DS when she said those things.  Not excusing it, but we are all human and do things we shouldn't do sometimes without thinking.

Title: Re: DIL refuses to help at family functions-gives grandkids wrong idea about "family
Post by: luise.volta on April 15, 2015, 12:00:07 PM
Profound, P. A mirror for me...