Hi i am a newbie and have been a member of another support group for people with relatives suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder or BPD as i will refer to it in future. My son is cohabiting with a woman suffering from this disorder and his life is hell. Also people with this disorder often paint there mother in laws black for no reason other than their jealousy of the son and mother relationship and to keep the grandchildren away from you. In the beginning it nearly destroyed me but i am learning to live with it. I have decided to stay away and not get involved with them at all, except on their terms and this seems to be working. It is however very sad as it is my only grandchild. Although i am lucky that my sons brings her to see me at least once a week. He has changed beyond recognition. I had to do a lot of studying of this mental illness to discover how to support my son without seeming interfering or giving his partner reason to complain about me. He has made it clear by his actions that he has appreciated this. Has anyone else had a similar experience. Regards homely60 :-X :(
Welcome homely and congratulations on how you are handling a bad situation. Shows true strength and character.
Welcome, H. This is a great site for support and understanding. It must so difficult to balance your love for your DS with his partner's need for no interference. Best wishes.
Hi thank you for the quick replies and validation it means a lot to me. Regards homely60
I'm sure sorry you have to deal with this. Sending love...
Hello, and I am a newbie too. Sounds like your DIL and mine are alike. Sorry you have to deal with that, it is hard isn't it? Does your DIL do what mine does and deliberately tell lies or start trouble to keep your son and the grandkids separated from you? In my case though, my son HAS to do as she says or agree with her or she makes his life AWFUL. I do not really understand this type of personality, and I also refuse to fight and argue about it...life is too short for all that. Sometimes in cases like this it ruins family relationships totally (it has for us). Hope it gets better for you.
So sorry to hear this, but glad you're all with us.
My Son knows his wife has a mental disorder.I truly believe she is BPD..............it's just awful having to deal with this.
Hope you come back for more support here at WWU homely.Lots of wise loving caring women here.
As most of you know, I'm a great proponent of self-care. You can't change others and the details of their lives are more than most of us can bear but we can save ourselves.
That is sooooooooooo true Luise.I have spent to many years trying to have a relationship with my son and DIL.My son has acknowledged the elephant in the room,and chooses to live with it.He really doesn't know how to deal with it,but wishes she would just accept me.I know that will never happen. My focus is on what makes me happy.My goal is to be happy,healthy,positive and to develop and maintain an inner peace.I choose not to try any more.It's just too crazy and stressful.
Wise Woman! 8)
I'm proud of you, MIW!
Hugs, Hope
Thank you Luise and Hope :)
Mominwaiting, it is wise to remove yourself from it. I have FINALLY learned I must do that too. We need to focus on OUR health and happiness and let go of that madness and drama our family members wallow in! I wish you peace. It's been only one day since I removed myself from the chaos, and it has been a peaceful day...and I slept GREAT! I work night shift as a dispatcher for electric company, and I NEED to be rested and prepared at work in case of outages, house fires, or wrecks involving poles or power lines. It is nice to talk with others that understand our family and their issues isn't it? I have been given kind words, and support here. BPD is a terrible illness, my daughters is very severe. I have read that some with BPD sometimes have personality disorders as well. Like borderline personality. I believe my DIL is like that as well. Glad you are here, hope things improve for you.
Homely60...Your life sounds like mine except DIL and DS have taken our GD away. She is now 8 months old and we haven't seen her for 3 months. There was no reason. DIL even had the audacity to tell us that " you should never ask to babysit b/c I feel that neither you or FIL are prepared". She actually put that in a letter and mailed it to us. At one point she hates HER mom and family, then after the baby was born, we got to be a part of GD life for 5 months, then DIL decided she hates us and DS is not allowed to see us. DS is miserable, has no control over anything and she makes his life a living hell. He does what she says, just to keep the peace in his life. Its a mess. We have finally stopped trying to figure things out and have decided to just let it all go. It sounds harsh, but we need to keep ourselves healthy and happy too. One day GD will grow up, and if she chooses, she will know us.
It doesn't sound harsh...it sounds realistic. Sending love...
I think we have to be careful saying that someone has a mental disorder or trying to diagnose them with a specific one. I have spent a lot of time trying to peg my MIL as something (and believe me, I could argue a few, and that is particularly dependent on how it needs to serve my needs at the time). It felt really really good to go onto websites and fit her into this little compartment; it validated my feelings about her. It hasn't been productive, and has only served to justify my natural instinct to withdraw from her.
A lot of things that we think are signs of a disorder have actually been "learned" in an environment people grew up in, and with work and patience, can be "unlearned." We also need to consider our own bias when we make a judgment call about someone else's disorder.
I know there are women on here who have family members that have legitimately been diagnosed with having one disorder or another; there are also women on here who are themselves living with a disorder. They have a tough struggle and seem to be doing tremendously well given the fact, so to google some things and diagnose our DILs, MILs, or someone else in our lives seems a little unfair to me (I'm just as guilty).
A lot of things that we think are signs of a disorder have actually been "learned" in an environment people grew up in, and with work and patience, can be "unlearned."
Only if the person wants to unlearn.
Pooh,
I know that, and I try to be as positive as possible here, a lot of people I know are working very hard to change their habits. My point was that it does not necessarily indicate a personality disorder. I think we also have to understand that unlearning is a process for the most part...it happens little by little. Only the very lucky, I think, are able to do a 180 change immediately.
I got what you were saying holliberri, I just wanted to emphasize that a person has to want to change. I think many of us here are dealing with people that have no intention or inclination to change, because they don't see anything wrong with themselves.
I totally agree that to label someone with a personality disorder should be left to a professional. When I started having my medical issues, I was researching like crazy. I gave myself at least 20 different diseases.
Sounds like this woman gets around a lot!!! She shows up in so many households...is it the water bottles?? You are doing the right thing and your son is so lucky that his mom is a logical thinking person.
when I went through this similar experience, the pain nearly took my breath away. I grieved so long. Now, here at the holidays, I have dreams of holding their children and I am filled with such wonder. The sense of comfort is quite remarkable.
I don't feel too sad when I think of them. I actually feel remarkably bonded...kinda nuts.
The boundaries are important. Watching our kids is important too. We never stop loving the idea of our children, but sometimes, the reality is so different. So, right yourself and sally forth. Bless you this special holiday time and your personal "season".
omg that is the personality disorder I was referring to regarding my DIL. THAT'S IT. I have the same problem and I am now understanding what you are going through or have been through. Thanks for that. I am just learning to sit back and wait for him to bring my grandbabies to me. I do not want to cause any problems for my son in his marriage. So I have been counceled by these wonderful ladies and I will be smiling this Christmas instead of crying.
Hang in there honey. I know exactly what you are going throught. Love and Peace to all
QuoteHi i am a newbie and have been a member of another support group for people with relatives suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder or BPD as i will refer to it in future. My son is cohabiting with a woman suffering from this disorder and his life is hell. Also people with this disorder often paint there mother in laws black for no reason other than their jealousy of the son and mother relationship and to keep the grandchildren away from you. In the beginning it nearly destroyed me but i am learning to live with it. I have decided to stay away and not get involved with them at all, except on their terms and this seems to be working. It is however very sad as it is my only grandchild. Although i am lucky that my sons brings her to see me at least once a week. He has changed beyond recognition. I had to do a lot of studying of this mental illness to discover how to support my son without seeming interfering or giving his partner reason to complain about me. He has made it clear by his actions that he has appreciated this. Has anyone else had a similar experience. Regards homely60 :-X :(
Welcome homely60. You are among friends here. I am sorry that you and your son are struggling with her but it is good that you are familiarizing yourself with the disorder and that will help you to help him with her. I wish you well.
Quote from: Mamaw313 on December 19, 2010, 10:03:41 AM
Homely60...Your life sounds like mine except DIL and DS have taken our GD away. She is now 8 months old and we haven't seen her for 3 months. There was no reason. DIL even had the audacity to tell us that " you should never ask to babysit b/c I feel that neither you or FIL are prepared". She actually put that in a letter and mailed it to us. At one point she hates HER mom and family, then after the baby was born, we got to be a part of GD life for 5 months, then DIL decided she hates us and DS is not allowed to see us. DS is miserable, has no control over anything and she makes his life a living hell. He does what she says, just to keep the peace in his life. Its a mess. We have finally stopped trying to figure things out and have decided to just let it all go. It sounds harsh, but we need to keep ourselves healthy and happy too. One day GD will grow up, and if she chooses, she will know us.
I wish I knew why things happen the way they do. Is there any way lines of communication can remain open with your son, at least? Why is she allowed to cut his parents off for no reason? Not fair.
Personally, in MY case, my dil had more money. Not alot. But enough. And I know if his family had more than hers, I would be the selected gramma and her mom would be on the outs. It can be something as trivial as that, too. Also, I feel her mother pulls all the strings in that relationship. She is the ONLY one to make demands. In fact, it was HER MOTHER that was mentioned in the wedding toast made by the matron of honor at the dinner reception. (the matron of honor was also the bride's sister). There is alot of dysfunction in her family. I hope the best for them and their little family. I want no part of them ever.
I hope the best for you, as well.
Hmmm - I never thought about BPD as a possible cause of my DIL's disdain toward us from the first minute she saw us - probably even before she ever met us! We knew very little about her - it was as if our son was under oath not to discuss her with us at all. She is very smart, clever, pretty, and manipulative. Our son fell hard for her. He is a loyal, can-do kind of guy who likes a challenge. Well, she is definitely a challenge. Our hearts are broken by her coldness and her forcing our son to push us aside. Our son seems sad and much-diminished from his former self. He gave up most of his old friendships - especially any that involved females or guys now married to cute females. She became totally possessive. Her own family seems to be aware, maybe even embarrassed, but they treat her with kid gloves. Now I wonder if they knew all along that their daughter was not quite "right". They belong to an ethnic group that does not admit mental disorders.
We live several states away, have never interfered in their relationship or said anything to him against her. They lived together for a few years before marriage, and back then she was polite but distant and made her self scarce during our very infrequent visits. We almost never initiated contact with them, sensing the tension it caused for our son. He was diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder after suffering for several months with various physical symptoms during their engagement period. We did not even consider that she might be the cause but now think that must have been the case. We paid for half the wedding and let them make all the decisions about it. Then she seemed to really snap.
We love our son and grandchild, don't hate her at all, and hope things get eventually better but we currently don't have any idea how to improve the situation. She will not discuss any issues with us. That is one of her control games I suspect. She holds the cards, knows she is wrongly cheating us, but won't end the game.
Makettle
I am so sorry for what your are experiencing now with dil. It is truly sad how you have witness your son's transformation. I dont know what to say. You cannot do anything but be there for your son. Do not pressure him because that would make him more anxious. I dont know if she has a mental disorder but she is very possessive, selfish and cold-hearted. I do believe you did not do anything wrong because many of us here have experienced the same problems you are now facing, absolutely with no fault. The reasons are many, that is, insecurity, afraid of you interfering too much, jealousy, possessiveness, you name it.
I would only advice you to try to live your life without them. We mothers also have a life to live. It is very painful but we have to move forward....and let go. Easy to say I know, but what else can we do. Things sometimes change dramatically (they did for me) but not always. I will keep you in my prayers.
You are a good person, with a big heart. Dont try to understand.....Luise would say that there is no logic. Do your best.... take care.
Love
Dear H, And welcome.....I do believe everything has been said here which is good. Is your DIL on any medications for this/under a doctors care/supervision???? For this is always very important...
You are very lucky you are able to see your son and Grandchild~~just keep the doors open and keep on doing what you are doing.....Which is staying out of it~~BRAVO!!!!!
Who knows, maybe someday your son just might wake up some day and say enough is enough.
My X is bipolar so I am somewhat aware of personality disorders/yet they are all different...
Just hang in there and we are always here...
Peace and Hugs, Faith :)
I thought it was paranoid personality disorder from my searches on the internet. The symptoms of paranoid personality disorder met our dil's issues to a tee...making mountains out of molehills; unable to forgive small slights, carrying a grudge, no matter how often the offender apologized for it or made it known they would not repeat the offense. Our problems started in about 1998 and by 2003, our son was convinced I was the most evil woman on the face of the earth. This caused problems in our close knit extended family as they are torn by loyalties when our son dropped out of our family altogether. Now he is upset because he wasn't invited to family weddings that have happened since then. I feel so bad that he is so confused and set in his mind that we have turned from him, when he has turned from us. When this started, I made a point of going to his house and saying, "Let's fix this. Please!" Shortly after we met with a mediator and at the end of the meeting, the mediator pointed to me and said, "this woman has shown she will do anything to make this right with you. What would you like her to do?" My DIL said, "nothing". And they left. The next day she sent me an email that said she didn't want any more communication with me ever again. I said okay.
I felt this tore my world apart and destroyed my family. It was devastating. I have thought of it everyday for the past 7 years, and I still don't know what I could have done differently. I tried very hard.
To rebuild my family, I have done the following: Taken joy in my remaining sons and my 3 other WONDERFUL DIL's. They are like my own. I have beautiful grandchildren who love me so. I have a supportive husband and a great career. We received over 70 Christmas cards this year from friends & family who love us, too. There are so many good things in life that I just can't help but relish them. And, yes, if you could tell by above, I take great comfort in not only loving others, but knowing there are lots of people out there who also love me.
My son has made noises that he wants once again to come back to the family. But, every time he contacts us, he is angry and accuses us of everything under the sun...from getting into his bank accounts and spreading around his financial woes to turning the family against him with lies I have told. On both counts, we find that very unproductive to work anything out as he is convinced we are doing these things. We try to get him to track down the accuracy of these statements, but he just seems to continue to rail against us. I cannot deal with this type of communication and we don't want to be sucked into the mire of trying to defend ourselves against these outlandish accusations. I would love to have him back as things once were years ago and we had so much fun as he had a great sense of humor and was a very nice person once upon a time. But, even if they came back, I do not believe things would ever be like they once were. I don't know how a new relationship would be, but considering the last 7 years, I am not interested in a negative one. So, I will continue on.. We lost another son in 2005. He was 27 at the time he died. And, after losing two sons, you learn that some things in life are what they are and you just get used to it.
Dear Friend, Hello, I do feel you pain for we have all gone thru similar happenings. I can only offer advise and that is to let your DIL go. Do not try doing anything for her again--it will unfortunately never be a "win-win" situation until she raises the white flag. Let it go for your own sake and well being. As far as DS is concerned--when he wants to call great just let him know you love him, the door is always open and forget the rest. Unfortunately when you are with someone with a personality disorder--you do take on a lot an sometimes more than you can handle. I really think when DS calls and is angry I dont think it is at you, or your fault--he simply needs to vent and unfortunately you maybe it...Remain calm thru his calls etc...he will then reach out to you at some time, but he has to discover for himself if he wants to stay in his marriage or not.
Just keep the lines of communication open with him--let him call--dont call anymore, and do not bother DIL at all.
Just begin to let go, take care of you, your DH and family.....
Peace and Joy...Faith
wow!!!!! i almost fell off my chair thinking i wrote all that was said. In a nutshell, this is my life with DS and DIL. Its sad when we have to go through all this saddness but wonderful when we can put our feelings aside, look at the whole situation the ds IS IN, BE THERE FOR HIM AND DISCONNECT FROM THE DRAMA THE dil THROWS OUR WAY. It has not been easy and am so thankful I have found this group to vent. I never really knew how many of us go through this, and as I mentioned on other sites, was rather emabrrassed to think I was the only one in the world who suffered. I no longer ave to suffer with my feelings of being rejected by the controlling DIL because God sent me, I truly believe, to this site to bring peace of mind to me.
My son came home from war and met up with a girl he said he knew forever. I never once ever heard him mention her, but then again I didn't know all my sons friends. He introduced me to her and the next day he asked what I thought. I told him I thought she was a lovely young lady, 5 years younger that he, and I also mentione to be careful because by the the she said on our first meeting, i got the impression she wanted to have a baby. 2 weeks later I went on vacation and was texted with "we are pregnant". OMG! but i said nothing except, I am so happy for you if you are happy. I went to dr visits with future DIL, took her shopping, out to eat, got close, or as close as she would allow and I thought things were good. She mentioned how she was so happy to have me in her life because she did not have a good relationship with her own mom. Then the baby came. They live with her mother and father, and I wa told I was not welcomedat the house they live because her own mother did not like me. ??????? she did not even know me, but ok. I stood on the sideline and waited for a chance to see my 1st gs when her parents were out. I was there whenever they needed me. Then they wanted to get married and her own mother said she wold not pay for it. The kids turned to me and I said I would do what I could. I threw them a beautiful wedding in my backyard but was told no one from my side of the family could attent because they only wanted it small. However, her parents, sisters and brothers, friends of parents and friends of bride we re allowed. ?????? I come from a big family and I am sure you can imagine how sad that was and how upset my own famly was. The DIL rules. Son abides :( I also told them I could do it anyday except that certain Saturday. The wedding was on that certain Saturday. I dealt with it and told DIL i would have to leave at a certain time because I had an graduation party as I had told her previously. All went well. Then they stopped talking to me. Prior to the wedding, I threw a baby christianing also for them because again her own mother said she didnt want to. We have sat down and tried to come to reasons as to why DIL thinks I don't like her. I never gave her any reason (although today I would like to punch her in the nose) lol and thats when I did research on the disease. OMG! Its going to be hard to stand silent, but if this is what I have to do then this is what i will do. My GS is 9 months and I probably have seen him 7 times. (They live 5 blocks away) I take what I can get. I just wish she, DIL wouuld stop attacking and twisting every word I say. She is very protective of her husband, my DS, and I mentioned to my son that when he vents to her it only fuels her up about me. Its been a month since I saw my GS and I find I don't cry now, I just silently wait for the day my son uses the balls God gave him and he says "i am taking my son to see my mom". He has a relationship with his dad cause she allows that. Its me she won't allow him to see. I just learned she is pregnant again and well, all I can say is I am happy about that for my DS, but will do it differently this time. I am not her mother, nor her friend as I have been told, just a granma. I will not push myself on her and will wait for the day she allows me to see my GC. Until then, I must get on with my own life. I pray everyday God send ssome peace their way.
BTW, I love talking to all you women, I am amazed by us all :):)
I understand the concept of "I take what I can get." However, at some point you've got to adjust your expenditures on their behalf to the amount of time you get to see DS & GS. I hope you aren't being used...you deserve better treatment than that.
Hi everybody!
I can really relate to this thread. I found wwu when I was looking for information on how to be a better mil b/c I felt like such a failure since no matter what I did it seemed to be wrong when it came to ds/dil. You have all been so supportive and comforting to me. It gives me a sense of peace and reassurance to know that others are going through the same thing - good people who I have come to know as friends. At the time I discovered this forum, my dil was expecting our first gc and I knew things would be getting more complicated and tougher with a baby added to the mix - and boy, was I correct! We usually only see our dil/ds/gs on major holidays or when there are big gatherings. Not so for our dil's parents, who btw, are alcoholics by dil's own admission, poor financial managers and distant to each other, but idolized by dil. Our ds has to help them out quite a bit around their house b/c his fil isn't handy. I began reading the book a dil on this forum recommended, "Toxic In-Laws", by Susan Forward and our ds's in-laws fit the bill to a "T". But my dh and I are being treated by them as though we are poison. You know what really burns me up? All the bad rap that mil's get! That book isn't about just any toxic in-laws - it is written about toxic mil's and fil's. It does mention that it could also apply to toxic bil's and s(is)il's. No mention of dil's. Why does everyone assume that it has to be the mil's fault? Don't they realize that almost every mil was also a dil? I guess they weren't at fault when they were the dil - no - they magically changed to evil when they became a mil. I'm still finding the book helpful - by changing the words in my mind, replacing mil/fil with my dil's/ds's names. I just got the book, so I haven't read a lot yet, but I'm hopeful that it will shed new light on the situation and help me to know how to react to the treatment we receive. I borrowed the book from the library and someone before me underlined and bracketed some of the sentences that apparently applied to them. I must say, I do feel bad for any dil that has suffered what the previous reader did. It absolutely broke my heart to think that some poor dil was being treated so badly. What upsets me, though, is that society has not fully recognized that it is a problem that mil's as well as dil's experience. Thanks for letting me unload. Whew! I needed that.
Hugs, Hope
Atta girl, Hope!
Yes Hope, I agree that MILs still get maligned. Until it happened to me I had never heard of a DIL who was hateful, just MILs. This site was like a miracle to me!
my DIL seems to have the same disorder~my hubby and I want more than anything in the world to be grandparents~we now have 3 granddogs who are spoiled rotten~we joined a gym to work out to relieve the stress...when you figure out how to handle this by ALL means pass it along,we want more than anything to have our family unit back together having fun...with out all the egg shells on the floor~Have a great day~
Penelope,
I hope you find your answers. I know what you mean about egg shells. We've been walking on them since our ds married our dil. Since we have no control over how they perceive things or over what they do, we are just trying to accept things as they are. Very tough b/c it's not at all what we imagined our family life to be like. I talk to anyone who will listen and this problem is so common - it's more the norm than not. I have to say that most people I talk to are going through some type of exclusion with their ds/dil/gc. Hang in there!
Hugs, Hope
Okay, so people are probably going to try to burn me at the stake for this. I'm a DIL whose MIL has BPD. It is terrible to live with. I agree, she does paint people black and lie like a weasel to get people to believe her. She mostly makes me look like the evil person when it is she who forges her adult son's signature and steals from him, continues to lie to and about him, and refuses to understand that it is HE who has told her to not have contact until she stays in mental health treatment and stops lying. I didn't do any of that--but yet I get blamed for it all and her siblings and DH's cousins believe that I have caused all sorts of problems when I haven't spoken with her in nearly a year. It's hard to live with.
I do have a question, though. Is your son's GF actually diagnosed with BPD by a mental health professional or is it just the "consensus" that she has it? If she's been diagnosed, then the counselor should be helping her and you should be seeing some progress (and relapses). If, like much of the issues between DILs and MILs, she had not been diagnosed and lots of folks that you know just agree with you that she probably has it based on a book or two and some "observed" reactions, I would think twice about calling her that. Often, children do not value what their mothers say if they think their mother is out to get their wife/GF/husband/BF. It won't help your relationship with your son if he knows his mother is calling names about the woman he loves behind his back. Just a thought...
I'm new here, and I'm here to get some insight into my own MIL. My DH, longtime friends of hers, and her old pastor all think she might have a major mental health condition (because of her erratic actions for nearly two decades). I'm here to get some insights into WHY she does what she does. She has been diagnosed with a multitude of "issues" by her psychiatrist, but since she has a diagnosed personality disorder, she is able to convince many people that I caused all of her problems--even the ones she had with her son (much to her and her mother's denial) long before I ever met him. It is awful--but remember that people with BPD don't just paint MILs black--MILs with BPD also paint DILs just as black for exactly the same number of reasons--none.
No burnings at the stake here. What we have learned in over a year and a half is that maladjusted people populate all ages and all walks of life and that there are no "whys." We get stuck in looking for whys, justice, logic and resolution where they don't exist. Peace comes to us when we let go of all of it and opt for healing what we can, which is ourselves. We learn ways to deal with or circumvent the people in our lives bent on various forms of persecution and we move on. Nothing changes...yet everything does. Sending love...
That's what I love about this site, DILs and MILs looking for support and understanding when dealing with rugged situations. I am pleased to find sensitive, understanding DILs here. DILs have said they were glad to know not all MILs were like theirs. The suggestions about how to deal with one can often be used to deal with the other.
Oh, and Ladyfirst, you're not thinking we're all BPD when you say you're looking for understanding into your MILs behavior are you?? ;)
Quote from: Pen on January 29, 2011, 10:22:46 AM
Oh, and Ladyfirst, you're not thinking we're all BPD when you say you're looking for understanding into your MILs behavior are you?? ;)
HA! Nope. I figured that any site with this many MILs ought to be able to help me out a bit with everything ELSE with my MIL. The BPD--well...that's another issue altogether. ;)
okay ladies~need advice..recently I sent the message to dil,she responded and it was nice,I took alot of the blame to make peace I guess you could say..my question is I have contacted her several times in the last 3 weeks,the mail is still here,she is getting ready to move soon to his base,I have everything of his here,I mean everything,the only thing she came and got was the xbox 360 a few months ago,shes on FB saying how shes packing and such,never a mention as to his things,so I went ahead and washed 7 loads this morning,all folded and packed,I assume after months in the sand he'll want clean freash clothes,she's very moody and I don't wanna over step boundries by calling and saying...hey,you gonna get his things? as I said moody. My hubby and I are also going down when he arrives,do I just take the stuff with me? I'm talking 3 lg bags of cammies on top of all his clothes. When he came home after Iraq I was standing by him,he asked her to help him with his things to his old room,she said no and continued to txt,I asked why is there a pile of dirty clothes? he said I don't know,she didn't wash my clothes while I was gone. She stated she hates being told what to do,I don't wanna make waves...moms,mil and dil advice please:) I know this sounds so menial but it's like dealing with a teenager,I don't wanna have bad vibes while seeing him come home~
Hi penelope!
You sound like such a caring, loving mom! What a lucky guy your ds is. Except I'm worried that his dw isn't taking her role in the marriage to heart. I wouldn't want your ds to suffer b/c of her lack of concern, so I think if it was me, I'd go ahead and pack up whatever belongings will fit in your car when you visit him as long as you won't feel resentment if you end up taking a good part of it back with you. That way, he can take what he can use right now if he wants. Or else, would it be a problem for you to text him and ask if he wants you to bring any of his stuff with you?
Hope this helps.
Hugs, Hope
Take the clothes, give them to DIL so she can hand them to DS if she so chooses. If she gives you credit for helping, great. If not, maybe she'll feel grateful to you for bailing her out and it will help your relationship. Who knows?
I know it's difficult when you care about your DS's comfort after all he's been through. He should be greeted like a hero rather than as a chore. You love him and want the best for him. However, from here on you might want to back off and let DS see what's going on. Don't continue to enable DIL's rebellious teenage behavior.
Since the clothes are at your house, and you likely would benefit from getting them out of there, I'd take them with me without contacting her.
It might take her awhile to figure it out, but I think if you just nicely tell him you have his things packed in the car, she'll figure out that this is a role she should be stepping into. When spouses are deployed, the one at home HAS to think of everything! I realize she may need a little time to step into it, but the one at home really becomes two people. It's double the work...deployments aren't easy for them either. Then, when children come, the person at home becomes like 6 people.
Are they living on their own yet? If not, once they are it might accelerate her progress. It also might take moving away for her to realize that you're not going to pick up where she left off.
@ Hope~I can't txt him as he's in Afghan~Holliberri,she lives at home with her parents:) I thought it odd all of his things are here but we didn't say anything....I guess I'll take it with me,he has all his cammies for here I'm sure he'll need,as you know they have diff colors for the dessert...you would think living with her folks her mom would say where's his stuff? they know these guys haven't even got a place yet. I don't know if she realizes the role of wife yet? but I know my role and I did his laundry for 18 yrs,after marriage I thought this was handed over:b lol I don't mind helping him out,I just hope she doesn't cop attitude:) same with the bills/mail,I've told her it's here,she messed up so bad last time one would think lesson learned....Thanks for the advice ladies,I swear there needs to be a manual on all this stuff~I know it's hard for the spouses left behind,he has made sure the cars are paid off,the credit cards are paid off,they have no rent payment,her only thing to do is pay car insurance and phone bill~I give credit to the ones who are left to deal with it all and care for little ones~
Penelope.. didn't you once say that while your dil lives in her parents house, that she does not even have a bedroom door? I don't see how your son will ever see this as "his" home.. he may have kept his stuff at your house simply because he is in a state of limbo and how is she ever going to grow up and have any relationship behind close doors?
yes I did,she has no door and when she first moved back home when he left for deployment she had gotten grounded,house arrest was the term she used and someone said your 20,married and your grounded,she said yeah fml...she posted she's leaving Thurs,still no contact withus about his things,if for any reason I can't make the trip,he'll have no clothes:b he has to go back to work the next day,I'm sure he needs his military clothes,I was thinken how airheaded is he,is he not saying go to my folks and get my stuff,good ole mom and dad always to the rescue,I was thinking alot this weekend,as much as I love him and I do,I'm gonna make almost a 1000 mile trip to visist briefly,say WELCOME HOME and then trek all the way back,8 days later he comes home on leave...her dad and grandpa are following her down?? thinken maybe an odd bunch:)
We see so clearly what needs to be done. Sometimes young adults don't line up cause and effect. If we step in and save the day, is this enabling or support? I wrote this as a question because I don't know the answer. Sending love...
I don't know that answer either Luise, because I think it is many people's human nature to want to help someone. I think for me, the difference between enabling and support is if the person is truly trying to help themselves.
Not on the same level, I know, but DH and I began talking about what we'd do to help DD with her homework when she gets older.
Do I let her fend for herself?
Do I oversee that she does her homework?
Do I make sure she packs it all in her bag?
Do I just pack her bag for her?
Do I take it to school for her when she leaves it at home?
Do I correct every mistake she makes so she gets an A?
Do I do this for the first year? What about the second year? High school?
I can't discern where support becomes enabling. I can justify doing everything for her very easily. Slippery slope. I can't really tell where I'm willing to draw the line, and I can't tell where I should be drawing it. It's a ways off, but I know I'll have to figure it out eventually.
I think you've already figured it out Holli.. it's now just a matter of putting it into action.
And holli, when my YS was going thru his "rebellious homework stage" as I like to refer to it now, I did all those things you just listed. The little booger threw it away AFTER he got to school...just to spite me!!!!! It was a lonnnnggggg year!
Pooh,
The tears are streaming down my face from laughing!!! LOL. I just know it though, homework is the simple part; the hard part comes when she's out of the house, in college and I'll be wondering if she washed her jeans or if she got a ride home from someone sober at the latest party. Ugh. I really don't know how parents can control themselves! To a certain extent, I think I'll be feeling like, "See...it's just easier when your mom does it." And that, ladies, is why I'm here NOW.
My son in Jr High produced a total illegible paper that he said was acceptable to turn in. Instead of fighting with him we went to the principals office to let him make a decision .. the paper was deemed illegible and not acceptable.. but he was given an extra day to rework the paper since he had actually completed the assignment in the alloted time frame. I try to make my kids understand that it's not just my standards, my way, or my laws.
The principal? I love that manuever. I should be taking notes...
Quote from: holliberri on January 31, 2011, 10:19:58 AM
Pooh,
The tears are streaming down my face from laughing!!! LOL. I just know it though, homework is the simple part; the hard part comes when she's out of the house, in college and I'll be wondering if she washed her jeans or if she got a ride home from someone sober at the latest party. Ugh. I really don't know how parents can control themselves! To a certain extent, I think I'll be feeling like, "See...it's just easier when your mom does it." And that, ladies, is why I'm here NOW.
I think this is why I've always been big on teaching my kids that for every action there is a reaction.
I handed my daughter what I called a list of consequences, each line item made it clear that the way to live life will always be her choice, but each bad choice seemed to deal with loss of freedom. (She was 16 at the time so freedom came in the form of a car). Through the years she begin to understand that freedom came in so many forms.. not having the funds to do something that she wanted to do... freedom to go on to get her master's with admittance being based on her previous gpa. She learned that she does not feel the constraints that many of her peers do because of wise choices.
I consider myself very lucky when it comes to my kids.. I like to think that I taught them well and they understand that an unearned A is worse then the hard earned B. But if you ask them they will probably tell you that I beat them with a 2x4.
Quote from: holliberri on January 31, 2011, 09:50:46 AM
Do I let her fend for herself?
Do I oversee that she does her homework?
Do I make sure she packs it all in her bag?
Do I just pack her bag for her?
Do I take it to school for her when she leaves it at home?
Do I correct every mistake she makes so she gets an A?
Do I do this for the first year? What about the second year? High school?
No.
Yes.
Yes.
No.
No. (Although I think I remember a drive to school with the finished project when I got a frantic phone call from her at school, calling from the main office - Mom, I forgot to bring it!)
Ask her if she wants you to check her homework. If you see a wrong answer, tell her you think that one is wrong. She needs to figure out the correct answer. You can give hints on how to go about it, but if you just tell her the answer there is no learning.
You do this as long as she lets you.
I had one child who had me running to the school much more often then I wanted. With kids I think you need to base it on each of their limitations. We can't forget they are all as individual as they come.
I agree with Seasage.. teach them as long as they will let you.
Seasage,
That was along the lines of what I was thinking. I think I'd take a project up to DD if she called me in a panic too...very excusable (rare, I hope!) exception.
I was possibly the only mother who received a panic call concerning a sports bra required for a volleyball game.. it wasn't my daughter but her teammate.. living close to the school has all kinds of disadvantages.
I always watched over them for homework,I never did it tho. I have many times ran books,gym clothes ect to school,never a sport bra..lol,once a few months my ys had my truck,I realized he had forgot his lunch,I walked to the high school to take it to him almost 6 miles there and back:b I'm a walker so I didn't mind,I was so affraid I wasn't gonna get there on time and he'd be hungry. My kids always played sports and when they decided not to play,they worked,2 older ds started work at 14,then at 16 they had a choice,play sports..free car insurance,work instead 40$ a month towards it..the ys is really smart,as I've said before we think maybe switched at birth!!! hahahaha as for the oldest I have until sat to decide...I see alot of chocolate in the house this week:b Holliberri,I think as parents we are always gonna worry not matter how old~just do the best you can and hope they make the right choices,my sons always hung out here with their buddies,still do so drinking and driving is not an issue,about 3 weeks ago we had a party and had alot of my 22 yr old ds friends here,now these guys are 22,23 so adults,doesn't matter,I went out in the garage and collected keys,those who didn't wanna stay I drove home,one guy was made fun of,they all shut up when they realized I was going around the whole room~my sons buddies are in the millitary and still post HI MOM on my FB page~ lol
Penelope,
You sure do take care of your boys. 6 miles? Wow. My dad was always the keykeeper at our overage drinking parties too. I think he still would if my brother and I didn't have kids and quit our partying phase.
I use to party with them,bars are fun becouse my ds loves kereoke and can't sing to save his life...but with everybeer he felt he was closer to going on tour,I told him one night,if you weren't my son I swear I'd yell you suck!! he gets all excited then when he gets to the mike it sounds like the teacher on charlie brown!!! hahahaha now I'm a non-drinker so I get to be DD which is fine,I even go pick them up at 2 a.m from bars....it's pretty funny,they get in the truck and talk about hot chicks!!! hahaha they are being picked up by my sons mom!!! hahahaha 22 yrs old..
Oh Lol...Laurie and Penelope, I can so relate to your stories...well I had two boys, so I didn't have to deliver a sports bra.
Holli, let's see if I can give examples of what my child did to me, and these were the GOOD kids. My YS kept me on my toes, the OS, only a couple of times.
1. YS convinced his first speech therapist that he couldn't possibly do work for a week because he was still upset about his baby brother's passing. Yes, this was a five year old that came up with this. When I went to my first meeting with her, she was all "I am so sorry about your loss. I can't imagine how awful it is to lose a child and we have been very understanding with YS's behavior because of it." It took me about five minutes to figure out what she was talking about and to make her understand my YS had flat out lied and I had no other children besides his older brother. He had conned her. He couldn't sit down for a week.
2. He convinced his second speech therapist, that they had his birth year wrong and he was only 5. (He was now 6). He was smart enough to add a year to his birth year on her paperwork. He spent the first half of the school year repeating last year's exercises, until my scheduled meeting, where I spent five minutes having to convince the therapist that I did indeed, know how old my child was. He had conned her. He couldn't sit down for a week.
(Are you noticing a pattern here? My YS hated being in speech therapy for a childhood lisp.)
Oh speech therapy.. I was in it until 6th grade.. I couldn't pronounce L's or R's.. my name came out as mauey... I'm so much better now.. even named two kids with R sounds :) that's when you know you're cured.
Yeah I probably had a shocked look on my face when I was asked for the bra.. I asked.. now sweetie do you want one of my dd's or mine? The funny part was I couldn't get it to the school before the bus left..so I said I'll meet you at the game.. I pulled up and the girl came flying over to my car, but since the coach was a terror and she couldn't admit to not having her under garments, she decided to put it on in front of the truck parked next to me.. never saw the man and woman sitting in the truck until she was done. kids... kids...kids
I had to share the bra story and the speech therapist stories over dinner with my DH. We had a good laugh!
Pooh ~ DH thinks you had a child prodigy on your hands!
Lol. Tell DH I don't know about prodigy....but he has always been too smart for his/mine own good. It was hard to stay a step ahead of him. And yes, this is the child that the government has now trusted! Don't you feel safe now? Lol.
Quote from: Laurie on January 31, 2011, 02:09:08 PM
Oh speech therapy.. I was in it until 6th grade.. I couldn't pronounce L's or R's.. my name came out as mauey... I'm so much better now.. even named two kids with R sounds :) that's when you know you're cured.
That was him Laurie. Couldn't do L's or R's and was in it until 7th grade. He still struggles with them a little, from time to time. He never could explain why he disliked speech therapy so much except to say he would get bored easily. He has his Mother's "Look, something shiny" problem.
I dated a guy once who had a terrible stutter. He was in speech therapy until 16. Then he quit. He got in a lot of trouble, but oddly enough...his stuttering went away. I think it was only a confidence thing with him. I think he needed to stand up for himself a little to stop stuttering. It was really neat to see.
laurie,I bet she doesn't do that again:) Pooh,our ds sound alike,mine hated school and was affraid of big rollercoasters,and now is 2nd command of a CH-53..lol I would have to beleive they fly higher than rollercoasters!! haha when he told us his MOS we were like hugh!! very supportive,but hugh!! I told him once,get your shoes for school,he came out with his bedsheet!!! hahahahaha
Oh that is priceless Penelope! Mine is the same, he is scared to fly and still hasn't. I was trying to get him to fly back after Christmas exodus in lieu of renting a car and driving for 8 hrs. The tickets were actually a tad bit cheaper. He said, "No way...I'm driving!" I just shook my head and said, "Ummm, if you get deployed or stationed somewhere overseas eventually, how do you think you are going to get there?" He grinned and said, "Kayak?" Then he followed that with, "I will do it if you will get a round trip ticket and go with me???" I laughed my hiney off. I'm sitting there going, he has been shooting weapons for months, he has explosives and blows things up, and he takes bombs apart, but yet....he will go if his Mommy goes with him?
Gotta luv them.....
hahahahahahahahahahahahaa....OMG!! hahahahahaha I've been on the helicopters these guys are transported in,never off the ground of course,he better get over that real quick:) as they are not like a commercial flight:) hehe,didn't a teeny part of you feel like awww he still needs mommy:) we thought for sure we were gonna get a call saying come get your son ma'am!!! lol my ds has so many stories of how the helo would bank(turn on side manuver real fast) and he would throw up in his helmet!! he's good now after a few years,but he flies daily:) my dh said I can see the pilot now,saying where'd he go? they sit hanging out the back,if the kids like me he'll forget to click himself to the tether:b dh laughed and said mom would just slide right out the door!!! you might wanna tell your ds upgrade a notch,as I'm sure kayaks aren't made for high seas!!! wouldn't you like to be a fly on the wall when these kids are put into training and such:)
Oh that's good! Yes, it does warm the heart to know he still needs me at times. But heck, I still want my Mommy when I am really sick! Lol.
I was being the all supportive Mom and trying to use logic on him (yeah...ok). I said, "Now don't you think it would be better to go ahead and do this now, while you are alone and none of the other Soldiers are around to see your nerves, then waiting until you are with a bunch of them and be embarrassed?" He just kind of cocked his head at me with that look and said, "I have showered with 100 other men, you really think at this point I have anything left to be embarrassed about?" Then gave me that mischievious 4 year old grin.
ahhhh the bootcamp shower:) when my ds gave us the tour of his barricks at grad, we got to the showers and oh boy,did his bro and buddies let the comments fly!!! I have a friend who's was a SGT in the army,one day we were chatten about Iraq and he said send your boy diapers,I was like what for? he said do you think there are bathrooms out in the dessert,do you think they stop combat to go potty!!! hahahaha so I ask my ds,do you want me to send diapers,he said...ahhh what for? I said so you can use the bathroom,he started laughing and said Do you think we @#$t our pants out here!!! hahaha my buddy set me up!! hahahaha also,if you have a greek friend and they tell you greek words and say ask so and so what it means...DON'T,another lesson learned!! hahaha I have always said,send the moms to war,the first time she see's someone fire at her child...it's on!! hahahaha I asked ds son a few months back,do they celebrate Thanksgiving,he replied..No,they don't even know their own names,they hate us and throw rocks!! I love asking him goofy questions,sometimes his come backs are so funny. Once when he got back from Iraq,he called me drunk...all I heard was..mom,mom,mom I said what? he said I love you,mom,mom,mom ..what? I love you then he'd giggle!! haha then I heard Marines in the back yell..ask your mom for mac & cheese..lol
Oh yeah...and there is only one thing worse than a drunk Soldier....a bored Soldier! I get texts going, "Mom...go to YouTube and put in XXXXXX", and it will be something stupid they have posted out of boredom. Some of them are just hilarious, some are so stupid and they THINK it is hilarious. Or I get videos on my cell phone while they are out on weekends. Last one was my YS getting thrown off a mechanical bull with his buddies going "Watch this Mom!" I could kill them....but I go look every time...Lol.
how can you not laugh,when he tells us about his adventures as we call them,I can't stop laughing,all my sons are like that. I was asleep one night and I had gotten the butt call,I hear drunk Marine son hooten and hollering,I can hear ppl so I knew it was a mistake,all of a sudden I hear WOOHOO!! thunk phone goes dead,dh said who was that,I said (sons name),I think he just passed out somewhere...and I fell back asleep. Your right, they do alot of stupid things that they think are so funny,my oldest and his buddies like to now do high school confessions as they are no longer affraid of getting grounded lol one night we were chillaxin haven some drinks and ds buddie said OMG!! remember that one snow storm when we snowboarded off the school roof!! my son laughed and so oh yeah!! good times..my dh and I just looked at each other and laughed,I was like how did I not know this stuff,they said oh we are just that good:b
Pooh.....your kid was really something. And not being able to fly without mom...love it..they are our kids forever.
I had three children. The Two oldest (son and daughter) use to be very responsible when in elementary school, and they were very smart. So I only checked to see if they have done their homework and did corrected them if something was not right. Then came my third.....a baby girl...she was 5 but already in first grade....she was my youngest and I overprotected her because she was my baby. When she was doing her homework....she would fall sleep on the carpet (so cute)....so once I finished her homework trying to imitate her handwriting (75% of it). Next day....she came back from school with the homework from the previous day with a note in big letters that read "Momy did it". My husband and I laughted for about an hour. She was always immature and I helped her all the way through elementary school.....answering her study guides and making her study.... I know it was wrong....but I did it....and everything turned out fine....she continued through High School but now by herself and was admitted in San Diego State University......went well. She is now working at a good company and is a hard worker and responsible. So really I do feel that when you got to help......you gotta help lol. But I respect other opinions. It just worked for me. I have seen that some children to not advance without help.
Love
Oh Nana, that was funny! Yeah, my youngest is a hoot and very smart, just mischievous. I think most Moms realize very quickly that each child is unique. What worked with my oldest, didn't work with my youngest. If I sent OS to his room and said no TV, games, etc., it didn't phase him because he liked nothing better than to read. But YS, I was thrilled if he read the back of the cereal box.
The OS was easy and I never had issues with homework, school, or anything. YS, yeah...I tried to give him to the garbage man one time and he simply looked at me and said, "Mam' we don't accept that kind of stuff." I did help YS with homework, as in correcting or explaining it if he didn't understand it. But now as an adult, it's funny because he is top in his class in the military when it comes to classwork. I always knew YS has the brains for it, he just didn't want to do it. But it's funny to look back now and realize even as babies, they were that way. OS slept 6 hours straight the first night I got him home from the hospital, and it went up from there. Very rarely did he wake up in the middle of the night. YS, yeah...he slept his first 6 hour stretch when he was 14 months old. He exhausted me.
So glad you are back Nana.
Thanks Pooh. Yes each of our children is unique. When looking back you realize that they were special in different ways. My son was also high maintenance. He slept very little and his naps were really short. I was always tired. In fact, I came to the conclusion that I had chronic fatigue. Well he is still very active. He loved sports and was always given the mvp award in whatever sport he participated. And Now at 33 married with three children he still plays softball with three different teams during weak days. My youngest daughter was much like his brother, loved sports and excelled in Tennis. But the middle daughter could not even bounce a ball, and she wondereed why she was never chosen in a sports team. But she did love to read. She used to read those Baby Sitter's Club....had all the books. She still loves to read a lot and is always buying all kind of books.
How proud you must be of your son being tops in Military School. Yes, each of our children are so different and that is what makes our lives so dynamic.
My God Bless you and your loved one.
Happy to be back here at home Pooh.
Love you
I am very proud Nana of his classwork in the Military and how well he is doing in academic settings. But I also want to strangle him and say, "I knew you could do this all along but yet you put me through years of hades! Arrrrrrgggggg!" ;D