WiseWomenUnite.com

Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: seasage on February 04, 2011, 11:03:17 AM

Title: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: seasage on February 04, 2011, 11:03:17 AM
Valentine's Day is nearly upon us.  We DILs will be thinking of our DHs; we MILs will be thinking of our DSs.  And I am thinking that the poor guy needs a break. 

How many times have I read on this site: your DH needs to stand up for you?  Frequently said by one or another WW, and always in service of comforting a DIL and protecting her against her MIL. 

Why do we MILs/DILs always want that man in the middle to take sides?  As loving wives, why on earth would we ask our DHs to take sides against their mothers?  Is that really in our own best interests?  Don't we stand to lose whenever our DHs are severed from their families?

And as loving mothers, don't we want the best for our sons, even if that "best" is defined by them and that best hates us?  What do we gain by pouting, sulking and hinting?  Certainly not any dignity!

Let's all give our "man in the middle" a break.  Let's send Valentines and kisses and not ask him to take sides or fix our broken relationships for a change.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 11:06:48 AM
Well, there's the first V-day gift I can get behind.  :)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Mariatobe on February 04, 2011, 11:09:04 AM
Speaking only for myself, but I believe Valentines Day is for lovers.  MIL SHOULD be thinking about FIL.   Also, my MIL has said some of the most hateful things to me, and the only thing she'll listen to is her son. So yes, I believe my DH should stand up for me. 
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: seasage on February 04, 2011, 11:14:35 AM
Quote from: Mariatobe on February 04, 2011, 11:09:04 AM
Speaking only for myself, but I believe Valentines Day is for lovers.

My mother always sent me a Valentine with a sweet little handwritten message.  I keep those Valentines in my office.  They are very precious to me.  They reminded me of her love on bad days.  They help my broken heart now that she is gone. 

I don't believe my DS's heart is so hard he wouldn't think the same.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 04, 2011, 11:17:46 AM
Quote from: Mariatobe on February 04, 2011, 11:09:04 AM
Speaking only for myself, but I believe Valentines Day is for lovers.  MIL SHOULD be thinking about FIL.   

I have to agree, of course it's my personal opinion.  Sure my mom and dad would send me candy and cards when I was younger and in school, and they might still send my H and I both a card that says Happy Valentine's Day, but I can promise you they aren't "thinking" about me on V-Day.  It's a day for people who are in love.  It's just weird to me to wrap my head around making that day about your S instead of your H.  Again, just my personal opinion.  I also think sometimes, we all stand to lose if DH DOESN'T stand up to his family, sometimes they are that destructive.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 11:24:41 AM
Er...I don't celebrate V-Day, so maybe I'm way off here. Just b/c the MIL might not do it, or has nothing to do with DS on V-Day,  doesn't mean that I can't, as a wife.  I think this is what Seasage meant.

I'm not sure why we need a holiday to do this anyhow. Why not right now?
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 11:27:12 AM
Eh, that's the problem I have with the whole in law issue.  DS or DH shouldn't be in the middle, he should be firmly planted by his wife. 

Most of the time it is an issue with the male and his lack of interpersonal relationship skills.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 04, 2011, 11:27:53 AM
Quote from: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 11:24:41 AM
Er...I don't celebrate V-Day, so maybe I'm way off here. Just b/c the MIL might not do it, or has nothing to do with DS on V-Day,  doesn't mean that I can't, as a wife.  I think this is what Seasage meant.

I'm not sure why we need a holiday to do this anyhow. Why not right now?

Now I'm confused...  :(
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 11:38:25 AM
I mean, cutting DH some slack when it comes to his mother. There are a lot of things that I expected him to handle that I probably could on my own. I can't eliminate the middle man for big things, but I think I can defend myself against comments/slights/barbs, or whatever else might come my way. I also can't change the dynamic of their relationship that's had some 30 years to solidify. Acceptance might be key for me.

I didn't say anyone else had to do that, I was just talking for myself.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 11:42:52 AM
Quote from: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 11:27:12 AM
Eh, that's the problem I have with the whole in law issue.  DS or DH shouldn't be in the middle, he should be firmly planted by his wife. 

Most of the time it is an issue with the male and his lack of interpersonal relationship skills.

That doesn't mean I don't believe this to be true, but I'm not sure I need to make it harder on him than it needs to be. A man should standby his wife, and I think in-laws could do great benefit by recognizing the DS and DIL as a couple.

DH definitely has a problem with interpersonal relationship skills. He readily admits that. But, me telling him how I think he should handle it seems to backfire. He knows he has to work on that, and he's realizing the mess he's in; I don't know that me trying to point it out to him at every turn was productive.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 04, 2011, 11:44:19 AM
Quote from: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 11:38:25 AM
I mean, cutting DH some slack when it comes to his mother. There are a lot of things that I expected him to handle that I probably could on my own. I can't eliminate the middle man for big things, but I think I can defend myself against comments/slights/barbs, or whatever else might come my way. I also can't change the dynamic of their relationship that's had some 30 years to solidify. Acceptance might be key for me.

I didn't say anyone else had to do that, I was just talking for myself.

I see what you're saying.  But remember to cut yourself some slack too, it isn't wrong for you to expect DH's loyalty to be with his wife if it comes down to it.  I don't feel like I'm putting him in the middle of anything.  You take vows to be unified- if anyone tries to interfere with that, they're the one putting him in the middle.  Of course, judging from what I've read, you and I are at totally different points in our MIL relationship, so it's normal we'd have different views I guess.  I know, and DH has reminded me even, that if this were my family treating him like this, saying these things about him, and completely unapologetic for it, he'd expect me to tell them where to stick it.  And I would in heartbeat.

But sometimes the wife is irrational, and that does make it hard for DH if he can't "understand" where she's coming from.  But of course if she's irrational then she doesn't know she's irrational and then the pressure from both sides just gets worse...okay now I'm rambling...it's a fine line.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 11:47:20 AM
Quote from: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 11:42:52 AM
Quote from: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 11:27:12 AM
Eh, that's the problem I have with the whole in law issue.  DS or DH shouldn't be in the middle, he should be firmly planted by his wife. 

Most of the time it is an issue with the male and his lack of interpersonal relationship skills.

That doesn't mean I don't believe this to be true, but I'm not sure I need to make it harder on him than it needs to be. A man should standby his wife, and I think in-laws could do great benefit by recognizing the DS and DIL as a couple.

DH definitely has a problem with interpersonal relationship skills. He readily admits that. But, me telling him how I think he should handle it seems to backfire. He knows he has to work on that, and he's realizing the mess he's in; I don't know that me trying to point it out to him at every turn was productive.

Hmmm....I don't know that it needs to be pointed out so much as let natural consequences happen.  Without interference.



Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 11:49:18 AM
Quote from: overwhelmed123 on February 04, 2011, 11:44:19 AM
Quote from: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 11:38:25 AM
I mean, cutting DH some slack when it comes to his mother. There are a lot of things that I expected him to handle that I probably could on my own. I can't eliminate the middle man for big things, but I think I can defend myself against comments/slights/barbs, or whatever else might come my way. I also can't change the dynamic of their relationship that's had some 30 years to solidify. Acceptance might be key for me.

I didn't say anyone else had to do that, I was just talking for myself.

I see what you're saying.  But remember to cut yourself some slack too, it isn't wrong for you to expect DH's loyalty to be with his wife if it comes down to it.  I don't feel like I'm putting him in the middle of anything.  You take vows to be unified- if anyone tries to interfere with that, they're the one putting him in the middle.  Of course, judging from what I've read, you and I are at totally different points in our MIL relationship, so it's normal we'd have different views I guess.  I know, and DH has reminded me even, that if this were my family treating him like this, saying these things about him, and completely unapologetic for it, he'd expect me to tell them where to stick it.  And I would in heartbeat.

But sometimes the wife is irrational, and that does make it hard for DH if he can't "understand" where she's coming from.  But of course if she's irrational then she doesn't know she's irrational and then the pressure from both sides just gets worse...okay now I'm rambling...it's a fine line.

Amen.

I didn't put DH in the middle of anything.  I took vows with him to forsake all others. 
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: cremebrulee on February 04, 2011, 11:52:37 AM
Quote from: seasage on February 04, 2011, 11:03:17 AM
Valentine's Day is nearly upon us.  We DILs will be thinking of our DHs; we MILs will be thinking of our DSs.  And I am thinking that the poor guy needs a break. 

How many times have I read on this site: your DH needs to stand up for you?  Frequently said by one or another WW, and always in service of comforting a DIL and protecting her against her MIL. 

Why do we MILs/DILs always want that man in the middle to take sides?  As loving wives, why on earth would we ask our DHs to take sides against their mothers?  Is that really in our own best interests?  Don't we stand to lose whenever our DHs are severed from their families?

And as loving mothers, don't we want the best for our sons, even if that "best" is defined by them and that best hates us?  What do we gain by pouting, sulking and hinting?  Certainly not any dignity!

Let's all give our "man in the middle" a break.  Let's send Valentines and kisses and not ask him to take sides or fix our broken relationships for a change.

just a suggestion
If you send the son a valentine, include DIL

Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Rose799 on February 04, 2011, 11:55:50 AM
Oh Seasage, though I hate to admit it, you're right about cutting dh some slack.  Of all the times we've had issues over family, none was his doing.  He's just a big ole softy at heart who tries to accommodate everyone.   On occasion, I've pushed dh to speak on my behalf.  I assumed that he would instinctively know what to say.  He's tried a few times, but for what good it did, he may as well have used a case of dynamite.  : )  Then it all falls back on me & I get to put his fires out, as well.  It took a long time to learn to speak up for myself.  I do for the most part now.  Dd makes it a real challenge.  When I do, I try to keep in mind that two wrongs don't make a right, to not hurt the other person's feelings & to say what I mean & mean what I say in such a way that I won't later have regrets.  It's not easy to un-ring a bell...

I've been sitting here feeling sorry for myself all morning.  I'm returning to my normally scheduled programming now...   ;D ;D ;D  Thanks Seasage

Any day is a good day to show people we love 'em...


Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 04, 2011, 11:58:30 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on February 04, 2011, 11:52:37 AM

just a suggestion
If you send the son a valentine, include DIL

See, now that I get.  That is what makes more sense to me.  Send it to the couple to celebrate their love for one another, since the holiday is about "being in love" and all that crazy hallmark crap.  :)  I'm clearly only speaking for myself here, but I would think it would be weird to get a card from my dad that was only addressed to me on V-Day to tell me I was his valentine and happy valentine's day or whatever.  I would be really really uncomfortable.  Obviously I can't speak for strangers that I don't know, but I know my DH was uncomfortable with a LOT of stuff his mom was doing but felt like he would get "in trouble" for saying so for a long time.  He had this big time resentment for her building inside of him for yearsss before I came around.  Of course, you all seem sane...MIL does not.  So I'm sure there's a difference.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Scoop on February 04, 2011, 12:23:59 PM
Send Valentines to your little Grandkids!  Something cute with puppies or kittens on them.  My DD is always so sad after Christmas, because we don't get as much mail (we let her open the Christmas cards).   She especially LOVES getting mail with HER name on it.  My Mom always sends her cards and letters.

To me, I don't expect anyone other than DH to get me a card.  But I will worship the ground you walk on if you make my DD happy!

TIPS:

- If your GK can read, please print clearly.  It will be even MORE special if they don't have to ask Mom to read the words.

- You don't need a big huge gushy message, just a few words, preferable about the GK

- Each GK should get their own card.  If you're worried about them not all arriving at once, a quick note to Mom or Dad saying "Don't worry!  It's coming!" is appreciated.

- Add some stickers in the envelope
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: JaneF on February 04, 2011, 01:01:32 PM
Wow, lots of wisdom here today gals! I totally agree a man should stand by his wife, and my husband does...HOWEVER, if the wife is wrong and treats her husbands family badly or allows contact with only her FOO and his FOO is excluded unfairly, I think he should have a spine and say so. (unless his family is causing problems in any way of course). Husbands and wives are partners and the parents of both families need to understand that this relationship should be the most important (in my opinion anyway). That being said I also think all parties involved should try to get along for the sake of everyone...but I know sometimes that is impossible (if you knew some of the folks in my family AND my husbands you'd agree!) My valentine is my dear husband of course, but I have given my young grandchildren little tokens like a card and a small stuffed animal, or cute decorated socks and a bit of candy...but I do not give my adult children valentines. I should have said earlier in my post that the same goes for the wife having family that causes problems, better add that! Have a most glorious day ladies!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 01:02:16 PM
I sent Valentines to my boys when they were growing up with candy (Just as I did Easter and Halloween).  I will send my SINGLE YS a funny valentine card, not mushy.  But I wouldn't dream of sending my OS one, even if we were talking.  I think that Valentine's should be between him and DIL and no longer belongs to me.  I would send my GD one, if I could (like Scoop said).

I do think a husbands place is with his wife.  But I don't think forsake was meant as "give up his family" just because he married.  Just as I wouldn't expect my DIL to give up hers because she said forsake.  I think if the DH's Mother or Father or brother or sister or friend.....anyone is treating his wife or children badly, then he should stand up for them.  But I also believe if DS's wife is treating his family badly, he should stand up for them.

I by no means put my DS in the middle.  He put himself there.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 01:07:13 PM
Quote from: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 01:02:16 PM
I sent Valentines to my boys when they were growing up with candy (Just as I did Easter and Halloween).  I will send my SINGLE YS a funny valentine card, not mushy.  But I wouldn't dream of sending my OS one, even if we were talking.  I think that Valentine's should be between him and DIL and no longer belongs to me.  I would send my GD one, if I could (like Scoop said).

I do think a husbands place is with his wife.  But I don't think forsake was meant as "give up his family" just because he married.  Just as I wouldn't expect my DIL to give up hers because she said forsake.  I think if the DH's Mother or Father or brother or sister or friend.....anyone is treating his wife or children badly, then he should stand up for them.  But I also believe if DS's wife is treating his family badly, he should stand up for them.

I by no means put my DS in the middle.  He put himself there.

Exactly.  I don't mean that forsake = gives up his family. 

Sure, if the wife is treating his family poorly he should not stand for it.

But to be honest,  I personally don't see much hope in ANY relationship where plain respect and kindness has to be demanded from another adult. 
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 04, 2011, 01:09:36 PM
Quote from: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 01:02:16 PM
I by no means put my DS in the middle.  He put himself there.

I agree with that one, considering your situation.  But if there are other people trying to interfere or meddle in your marriage, or make a person try to feel bad about starting a life with their spouse, that person is the one in the wrong.  Not the wife for expecting their H to be on "their side."  You don't fall into the interfering category.  You fall into the "unlucky in getting a crap DIL category."
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 04, 2011, 01:10:14 PM
Quote from: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 01:07:13 PM

But to be honest,  I personally don't see much hope in ANY relationship where plain respect and kindness has to be demanded from another adult.

Ain't that the truth!  Preach it!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 01:10:45 PM
I agree with that.  I think that if the person in general is just a disrespectful person, then you are right.  But I do think that sometimes the person may not recognize it, or thought it was Ok because that is how they were raised, so a conversation could make it better...if the other person is willing to listen.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 01:15:42 PM
Quote from: Pooh on February 04, 2011, 01:10:45 PM
I agree with that.  I think that if the person in general is just a disrespectful person, then you are right.  But I do think that sometimes the person may not recognize it, or thought it was Ok because that is how they were raised, so a conversation could make it better...if the other person is willing to listen.

I agree.  Most people are not unreasonable or perfect angels.  We all make mistakes, sometimes big ones.  And try to work it out, we apologize and make amends.  We forgive others when we see true remorse.  We've got our rules of society that we all know. 

But when it becomes a pattern of disrespect is when unpleasant choices are all that's left to make. 
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 04, 2011, 01:19:28 PM
Quote from: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 01:15:42 PM

But when it becomes a pattern of disrespect is when unpleasant choices are all that's left to make.

You must have been spot on when you said our situations sound very similar!  If someone isn't willing to change their actions even after it's been brought to their attention, and they aren't willing to acknowledge...you're put in an awful position to choose the lesser of several evils.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 04, 2011, 04:32:18 PM
I am going to send myself a Valentine along with chocolate covered cashews and it is going to say....lets see...
"to the cutest, youngest, slimmest, sexiest, sweetest girl I know."

I am going to sign it "Guess Who?" and then I am going to Scotch Tape in my front window.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 04:43:52 PM
Hahahahahahahaha...the "guess who?"...oh my gut hurts.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pen on February 04, 2011, 04:56:27 PM
Luise, you're a riot.  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 04, 2011, 04:58:51 PM
Don't dare me!!!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: JaneF on February 04, 2011, 06:57:32 PM
Luise you are a hoot! Laughed myself silly at the mental picture! Great idea though.....
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 06, 2011, 10:07:20 AM
You may just get a Valentine Luise that you were not expecting.......I mean...ya got a ring!  ;D

And OW, somehow I missed your earlier post...thank you very much!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 06, 2011, 10:11:42 AM
Are you psychic or something? You won't believe what the "ring-bearer" just sent me in a Valentine that made me cry.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 06, 2011, 10:14:22 AM
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

WOO HOO WOO HOO WOO HOO WOO HOO

I love this guy!!!!!!!!!

I'm not going to ask you what it was....I will wait to see if you want to share...... :-*

And I do have ESPN...does that count?  (And truthfully, my GM had a huge gift of seeing things, My Mother does it sometimes and I have had a few experiences with it.)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 06, 2011, 10:15:55 AM
See...like right now...I just had a vision of Laurie shaking her head from side to side going, "Pooh, you are so full of crap."
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 06, 2011, 10:30:20 AM
We are all full of crap and those of us (speaking) who have brown eyes are a quart over!  ;)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 06, 2011, 10:32:50 AM
ESPN, yes. I think that perhaps it's there in all of us..waiting to be developed. Maybe not...but sometimes I can see what's coming or feel the answer to something...
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 06, 2011, 10:58:00 AM
I agree.  I think all Moms have had that whole, "Hmmm...somethings wrong" experience when our children are sick or in trouble.  My Mother will all of sudden pop in my head and I will call her to find out she is sick or she's upset about a friend's passing at Church or something.  I think we all have a little bit of it.

Weirdest thing I ever had happen was when I was 16.  I am blind as a bat without my glasses and I had put my clock radio (or radio clock if you are Holli) across the room to make myself get up in the mornings.  I could not see the numbers, ever.  My GM and I had a special bond, and she was in the hospital in a coma.  She had been that way for a week.  I remember waking up in the middle of the night and turning over and seeing the clock said 4:02.  I remember thinking how weird it was that I could see it clearly, then turning over and going back to sleep.  The phone rang around 6:00 a.m. and Mom came in my room crying.  I knew what it was and was devestated.

Later, when we all got to the hospital, the Doctor told us she has passed away at 4:02.  I will never forget that and always think of it as she was telling me goodbye.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 06, 2011, 11:07:50 AM
She was. How wonderful that you got it!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 06, 2011, 11:17:36 AM
Amazing what I get, when I pay attention.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pen on February 06, 2011, 11:25:01 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on February 06, 2011, 10:11:42 AM
Are you psychic or something? You won't believe what the "ring-bearer" just sent me in a Valentine that made me cry.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I had a feeling he'd come through...I'm so very curious, but too lady-like to ask.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 06, 2011, 11:36:52 AM
Oh, that was ladylike!  ;) He sent me a check for $1,500. and said..."Have fun!" I went to my favorite furniture store and got a new hide-a-bed that I can stretch out on when I want to take a nap during the daytime. Mine is a love-seat-twin-bed-sized hide-a-bed and I live in one room. Not cool to open it up in the daytime...so I haven't taken a lie-down nap since October. I doze in my rocking chair sometimes and then wake myself up when my head flops forward. Uggg. When he was here at Christmas, he asked me how I napped on it and I said I didn't. When it comes, I may take before (twin) and after (full) hide-a-bed pictures for you guys.  :D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 06, 2011, 11:40:12 AM
Shhhewww Pen, glad she took your hint, cause she didn't bite at mine!  ;D

That is soooo sweet and thoughtful!  And now he can stay longer too......oh did I say that out loud?
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 06, 2011, 11:48:57 AM
I just loved teasing you guys for a while.   ;D ;D ;D

And no, he doesn't stay here, of course, although I did bring him over to see my unit when he was here in December so he could picture me on the phone with him for an hour or two every night. Seriously, he has a huge respect for Val.

I liked that part that he didn't care what I did with it. I could have put it away for a rainy day (fat chance) and it would have been OK.

We walk a fine line with this and so far, our families think it's great. I think they are pretty sure we are too old to get into any trouble. (Kids can be so dumb!)  8)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 06, 2011, 11:58:57 AM
I think your families also realize that you two offer great support for each other. 
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on February 06, 2011, 12:01:12 PM
Quote from: Pooh on February 06, 2011, 10:15:55 AM
See...like right now...I just had a vision of Laurie shaking her head from side to side going, "Pooh, you are so full of crap."

I did too :)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 06, 2011, 12:11:39 PM
You think that the concept that we offer each other a great deal of support is crap? ???
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 06, 2011, 12:13:52 PM
See, told you I had the gift!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 08, 2011, 09:57:30 AM
Thought I would share something I just found for DH for Valentine's day.  It's actually for us, but DH loves nothing more than when we do something together. 

It was a $50 special a local dance studio was running for Valentines.  2 private lessons, 1 everybody dance class and an after party.  He gets to choose the dance he wants.  They offer all types including ball room and latin.

Now, my DH loves to try new things, and likes when we can do something together, so he will love this!  I bought 2 things full of silk rose petals, and I plan on him finding a trail of them leading from the garage to upstairs, where I shall be waiting with his certificate appropriately displayed.  ;)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pen on February 08, 2011, 10:08:55 AM
Oh good grief, my DH is now sticking the acupuncture needles in his other eye.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on February 08, 2011, 10:12:26 AM
lol Pen
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 08, 2011, 10:28:57 AM
Lol Pen!  Now now....come on....it's lots of fun......
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pen on February 08, 2011, 10:54:00 AM
It sounds like great fun to me. To DH, not so much.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 08, 2011, 10:57:31 AM
Well he's missing out then! Lol.  But remember, I have the DH that took me on a date to the pottery place and we painted plates for each other.  He'll try anything once.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 08, 2011, 11:20:55 AM
I think we need to clone that guy!  :D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: MotherOf3 on February 22, 2011, 09:31:10 AM
I'm sorry but I just don't get a mother wanting a Valentine from her son.  I have a 25 year old son and it never crossed my mind that he would/should get me a Valentine card or gift.  Seriously, I never even thought about it until I started seeing posts on the subject.

Valentine's day is for lovers, sweethearts, spouses.  Not for a son to his mother.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 22, 2011, 09:52:37 AM
If you are talking about romantic love, of course you are right. However, children give Valentines to grandma and grandpa and that is about generic love in my book. There are many lovely Valentines that are for DIL, SIL, etc. I sent one to my DIL. I also sent one to three of my best friends. My son doesn't send me one and I don't send him one...but I would not be offended if he did. Just my take on this. I think it's perceptual and custom-oriented.

My son recently wrote me this: "My entire life I've had a Mom who loved me; one who is interested, is an excellent sounding board, has wise advice and has always been there at the best and worst of times. Not all that common. I'm grateful. Love, Kirk"

Who needs a Valentine?  :D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 22, 2011, 10:02:47 AM
He's such a good fella Luise. 

I am with Luise.  I wouldn't send my son one, but if a Mother just likes to send cards for every holiday, I wouldn't have an issue with it.  My Ex-MIL would send a card for every holiday.  I never took exception to it, because it was just how she was.  Now, if Valentine's was the only holiday and she wanted to spend it with my Ex-DH, I probably would have found that strange.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Rose799 on February 22, 2011, 10:50:50 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on February 22, 2011, 09:52:37 AM
Who needs a Valentine?  :D

Certainly not you, Luise~  That's gold, pure gold!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 22, 2011, 11:26:48 AM
Oh, Rose I am so excited. Kirk is coming a week from today to stay for three weeks. They have a place 7 miles down the road, so he can have a retreat, but we still hang out often and it is just wonderful. I haven't seen him since October 10th when he moved me into my HUD apartment. Long time! My birthday is March 9th and he always does this every year. Then the both come for three months in the summer.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on February 22, 2011, 11:29:15 AM
Luise, that sounds wonderful! Very exciting!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 22, 2011, 11:38:09 AM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 22, 2011, 11:50:01 AM
Yay!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Rose799 on February 22, 2011, 12:07:22 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on February 22, 2011, 11:26:48 AM
Kirk is coming a week from today to stay for three weeks. They have a place 7 miles down the road, so he can have a retreat, but we still hang out often and it is just wonderful. I haven't seen him since October 10th when he moved me into my HUD apartment. Long time! My birthday is March 9th and he always does this every year. Then the both come for three months in the summer.  ;D ;D ;D

You've made me homesick, Luise.  I need to pay DM a visit soon.  I know you'll have a wonderful time, if Kirk can keep up with you~  Have you told him you've been working out at Curves?   ;)


Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 22, 2011, 12:17:19 PM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: ladyfirstdilsecond on February 26, 2011, 02:49:57 PM
Seasage--as a DIL, I cannot get behind this.  For children, V-Day is for fun and candy.  As an adult, though, V-Day is about love and romance--not exactly a MIL-type holiday.  Our DH's don't need to get candy and fun from their mothers.  This is somewhere that I do put my foot down, and my DH doesn't speak with his mother, so I don't need to worry about it.  This is a day about romance and love.  Yes, my MIL "loves" (ie: tries to control and manipulate) her son as I am sure I will love my son.  But there comes a time when a man chooses--he chooses his wife over his mother when he takes a wedding vow, just as his mother did when she married his father.  He chose who he loves first and who he loves "more" as a promise to God.  In my opinion, I don't see any reason for a MIL to contact her son (or adult daughters, for that matter) for V-Day.  They aren't children and it isn't about candy and fun.  It's about love and romance...and no son in the world should have any sort of romantic love for his mother.  Just like no mother should expect something from her son on V-Day.  She has Mother's Day for a showing of how much she means to him.  Let the DIL have V-Day since that is the day SHE is supposed to be recognized for how much she means to her husband.  Instead of wanting to be shown how much she means to her son, perhaps MILs should stop fighting over this day and let it fall where it should--into the marriage of her DS and DIL. 
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 26, 2011, 03:22:08 PM
Many do just that. Read earlier posts and treads. Many do. We are talking about the exceptions here.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Tara on February 26, 2011, 03:37:08 PM
My DS called me on valentines day to wish me happy v-day .
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 26, 2011, 03:46:46 PM
And knowing you...you neither expected or demanded it.  :)

If we go through the V-cards for sale...they cover every possible interaction....(to sell more!) Way beyond kids and romance. Everything and everyone under the son. Buyer's choice. For the last five years that Val was with me at home...I said "Look what you got for me for Valentine's Day!" And he loved it!  ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on February 26, 2011, 03:52:54 PM
Tara, that was very nice, I think. I don't see the harm in that at all. I think my MIL only calls us to try to get usa to celebrate the day with each other. She can't understand why DH and I don't celebrate it. I think she is just trying to get us to jump on the band wagon. Perhaps if I took the holiday more seriously, it would bother me more, but it seems so insignificant to me that I  don't mind. Plus, I never turn down chocolate.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Tara on February 26, 2011, 04:20:22 PM
Yeah, I certainly didn't expect it.  It was nice to know through these hard times he was thinking of me.

Holli, yeah, chocolate anytime.  I like what I think you call your minimalist style.


I sent two of my grandgirls who were old enough to 'get it' valentines, and I heard something on a radio about one woman loved getting cards from her grandmother  with a little cash in them, so  for the older one, I put $10.00 in it.

Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 26, 2011, 04:36:59 PM
I sent one with a little dog on it to Kirk's lady, Sandy. She emailed me that she was so touched that she cried because it looked like the ones she got from her mom when she was alive. No romance going between Sandy and me and she's not a child...but we connected on Valentine's day.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Tara on February 26, 2011, 09:32:11 PM


Luise,  Touching!   

thats how it is for me too.  I sometimes get valentines from my women friends, especially one who is like a sister,
in fact we call each others sister.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on February 26, 2011, 09:58:52 PM
I would be concerned about anyone who felt the need to find something sexual in a mother wishing her son/daughter/dil/sil etc a Happy Valentine's Day.  My dd calls her Daddy at work to wish him a special day, it's just something that they do, and  you know what I think it does make him feel special. 

Now once again I am not talking about the extreme people on earth, holding whatever title they have.. I do not think that it's my place to come between my son and his wife on V-day, but if I sent a card, or a phone call and my dil accused me of having some sort of sexual insinuations, I'd have to be wondering about the mentality of my dil.  Thankfully I think she is pretty balanced and would not resort to those types of accusations to try to drive home a point that probably does not exist.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Rose799 on February 26, 2011, 10:22:15 PM
Quote from: Tara on February 26, 2011, 03:37:08 PM
My DS called me on valentines day to wish me happy v-day .

I'm very happy for you, Tara~
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: tryingmybest on February 27, 2011, 05:54:49 AM
yeah, I have to agree. For a DIL to have immediate issues with a son sending a Valentine to his Mom concerns me. I think cards, except for BD cards should be addressed to the couple though. I don't get the "chooses his wife over his mother thing". Mothers and Wives fill vastly different places. When either woman feels they are in competition with the other - THAT's when the problems start, IMO.  ::) 
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on February 27, 2011, 06:16:12 AM
Quote from: ladyfirstdilsecond on February 26, 2011, 02:49:57 PM
Yes, my MIL "loves" (ie: tries to control and manipulate) her son as I am sure I will love my son.  But there comes a time when a man chooses--he chooses his wife over his mother when he takes a wedding vow, just as his mother did when she married his father. 
See Trying, I think for some the competition begins because of an unrealistic preconceived notion someone had towards relationships in general.  I do not believe that  LFDS is the only person to feel this way, but unfortunately when someone views a mother/son relationship as being threatening from the beginning I do not see how it can ever end with a warm compassionate all encompassing family.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pen on February 27, 2011, 07:53:07 AM
Laurie, I agree. Some DILs having an agenda from day one. Good MILs don't stand a chance when that's the case, which is pretty much my situation. Note that I said "good" and not "perfect," LOL.

So if I have nothing to lose, should I become a bad MIL? I've got lots of great ideas  ;) from reading DIL posts here...some of you have truly heinous MILs. Oh, it could be so much fun! Where's my Cruella DeVille costume?

Tara, how touching. I treasure those gestures from DS. He'll send funny pics from places we'd visited or that he knows I'd love. It's a little thing, but it means the world to me.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Tara on February 27, 2011, 10:04:03 AM
Good points eveyone.  I have a thought that is not in reference to  you ladyfirstdilsecond

At Josh Colemans second teleseminar last week he talked primarily about dils and sils.

re:  dils, one of the things he addressed was anxiety on the part of dils.  Not all certainly but some
dils are anxious and easily threatened by things said and done by mil.  He explained it more in
depth. 

Laurie, related to you comments, he said that if the dil has mental health issues she is going to be
much more anxious about alot of things. 

I wish I would have known this info sooner.  I had thought foolishly that my dils were like adult
friends, but the one I have difficulty hasn't been out in the world alot, lived at home most of her
life till she married my ds late 30's, is afraid to fly, etc. etc.  If I knew this prior I could had seen that
she would be more sensitive and more anxious in general and could have been more mindful. 
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 27, 2011, 03:32:36 PM
I don't have an issue with MIL sending V day stuff at a normal time.  Even when she does though I don't think it's anything sexual, to me, it just comes off as desperate and trying to remain in control or "look at me! look at me! I'm over here, don't forget about meeeeeeeeeee"  But that's her and I doubt very many other MIL's send V day stuff for the same reason as mine does. 

Heck, I wouldn't even mind if she sent it to just DH, just for the sheer fact I like things toned down anyway.  (we get HUGE shopping bags full of stuff for each one of us)

I think the other thing that kind of gets to me is that she just doesn't leave ~anything~ alone.  Any reason for an event she's going to snatch onto and squeeze the life out of it.  I mean, St. Patty's day?  You're not even irish lady and the food isn't traditional anyway!  I'm irish and make all the traditional food, can't I just have this one teeny tiny holiday????  Puhleeeeease???

Ok, rant over :)  I do understand what the rest of what you all are saying tho.  I would find it odd if someone immediately gotten offended by just a valentine too but I tend to think there is more behind it when that happens.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 27, 2011, 03:49:49 PM
We when get offended, angry, hurt...etc...it is about us. I learned that from a friend who never got bothered about anything. She would just say...it's about her not me...and mean it. (I can do that once in a while.)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 28, 2011, 07:00:30 AM
Quote from: ladyfirstdilsecond on February 26, 2011, 02:49:57 PM
Seasage--as a DIL, I cannot get behind this.  For children, V-Day is for fun and candy.  As an adult, though, V-Day is about love and romance--not exactly a MIL-type holiday.  Our DH's don't need to get candy and fun from their mothers.  This is somewhere that I do put my foot down, and my DH doesn't speak with his mother, so I don't need to worry about it.  This is a day about romance and love.  Yes, my MIL "loves" (ie: tries to control and manipulate) her son as I am sure I will love my son.  But there comes a time when a man chooses--he chooses his wife over his mother when he takes a wedding vow, just as his mother did when she married his father.  He chose who he loves first and who he loves "more" as a promise to God.  In my opinion, I don't see any reason for a MIL to contact her son (or adult daughters, for that matter) for V-Day.  They aren't children and it isn't about candy and fun.  It's about love and romance...and no son in the world should have any sort of romantic love for his mother.  Just like no mother should expect something from her son on V-Day.  She has Mother's Day for a showing of how much she means to him.  Let the DIL have V-Day since that is the day SHE is supposed to be recognized for how much she means to her husband.  Instead of wanting to be shown how much she means to her son, perhaps MILs should stop fighting over this day and let it fall where it should--into the marriage of her DS and DIL.

What do you mean by "put your foot down?"  And I think not contacting him at all on V- Day just because he's your son is a little extreme.  No smoke signals?  No nice card saying have a great V-Day with your wife?  If my MIL were a functional human being, I wouldn't mind that one bit.  There is a difference though in spending the day "thinking about" your son on V-Day and sending him (and his wife) a card that says "have a great day!"  That doesn't mean she's trying to compete with you.  My parents didn't contact us this year at all for V Day, but last year they sent us a card that said Happy Valentine's Day.  Under normal circumstances, I don't really see anything wrong with this.  It isn't always a competition to all MILs about "who he loves more" or "who he chose."
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 28, 2011, 07:16:26 AM
Quote from: ladyfirstdilsecond on February 26, 2011, 02:49:57 PM
He chose who he loves first and who he loves "more" as a promise to God. 

Out of all this, I think this line bugged me the most.  When I married my DH I would never have expected him to say, "I love you more than my Mother now because I married you."  I expect him to love me, and love me differently than his Mother.  But the concept of who he loves more?  How unfair is that?  So when you have children....do you have an expectation that you will love them more than your DH?  That DH will now have to understand you love your children first and more?  Or do your children have to understand that you love DH first and more?

Yes, I am being sarcastic because that is how I see this.  There is no "first" and "more" when it comes to love.  I love my Mother, I love my Father, I love my DH and I love my children.  Are every one of those a different kind of love....yes....but they are all loved.  There is no competition and never should be.  At what point did we start ranking those we love?
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 28, 2011, 07:21:19 AM
I agree, Pooh, that's why I put those in quotes as well in my response.  It seems like the person talking about who he loves "more" is the person who is making it into a competition.  It also seems to stem back to control way too often.  Putting your foot down to not "allow" contact between mother and son on Valentine's Day because you want to prove he "loves you more."
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on February 28, 2011, 07:23:19 AM
Yeah, I wasn't happy about that line either. There are different kinds of love...and love is infinite. I see this when I see my nieces. I only see them once or twice a year (as does my mom), but they don't treat us as less than their other GPs and Aunts and Uncles. It's equal in their eyes. I often see myself looking at little kids and thinking, "What would they do/think if...?"

Let's not forget that Valentine's day is a Hallmark Card Holiday. The more cards the better, so if someone buys one for their spouse, parent, kid, grandkid, pet, or buys a card from their pet to send out to all of the aforementioned relatives...the system is working.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 28, 2011, 10:37:39 AM
Can we talk about St. Patrick's Day?
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 28, 2011, 10:44:11 AM
Why sure!  My YS was born on St. Patrick's Day, is red headed and pale skinned.  His nurses stuck a green hat on his head and covered his bassinet with shamrocks.  I told him he was kissed by the Irish on the day he was born.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 28, 2011, 10:45:11 AM
Oh, and I will be sending him a card and present!   ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on February 28, 2011, 10:46:44 AM
St. Patrick's Day? My 2nd wedding day.  :)

I'm barely Irish.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 28, 2011, 10:47:34 AM
Everyone's irish on st pattys day! 
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 28, 2011, 10:54:47 AM
Oh, I love all that stuff!  :D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: ladyfirstdilsecond on February 28, 2011, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: Laurie on February 27, 2011, 06:16:12 AM
Quote from: ladyfirstdilsecond on February 26, 2011, 02:49:57 PM
Yes, my MIL "loves" (ie: tries to control and manipulate) her son as I am sure I will love my son.  But there comes a time when a man chooses--he chooses his wife over his mother when he takes a wedding vow, just as his mother did when she married his father. 
See Trying, I think for some the competition begins because of an unrealistic preconceived notion someone had towards relationships in general.  I do not believe that  LFDS is the only person to feel this way, but unfortunately when someone views a mother/son relationship as being threatening from the beginning I do not see how it can ever end with a warm compassionate all encompassing family.

The issue, Laurie, isn't that I have had an "unrealistic preconceived notion" of my MIL.  I went into my relationship with my MIL wanting a great relationship, like my mother had with her MIL.  I saw that growing up and wanted to be close to my MIL.  Instead, I felt like I stepped into the viper's nest--I was insulted, verball assaulted, lied about, and my MIL actually told my DH 2 weeks after our wedding that she would pay for him to get a divorce lawyer and that "God was telling her" that she was to help us get divorced.  Tell me--how is that a "preconceived notion"?  And, not to put too fine a point on it, but you seem to be putting your own preconceived notion into what I said by assuming that I went into this relationship hating her or thinking bad things about her before I met her.  Maybe that's how some people operate, but I can tell you that I don't.  My MIL does manipulate people in her life--just like her mother taught her to (we watched her lie to the pastor for crying out loud--even when faced with factual evidence, she continued to lie about me).  I don't think that's right.  My DH hasn't spoken to his mother since our wedding--and none of that is my fault.  HE chose not to speak with her because of HER abusive, nasty, and emotionally incestuous behavior toward HIM.  I wasn't involved in any of that specifically so I couldn't be "blamed".  Guess who got blamed in a scathing email...the point is, the reason my DH and I cannot have a relationship with his mother and grandmother doesn't have to do with me.  He didn't have a relationship with them before I came along.  The idea of an "all encompassing family" is laughable in our case.  My MIL has made it quite clear that I am not loved or wanted in her family--and my DH has made it clear to her that until she treats me like a person (instead of tossing my food from my plate onto the floor and telling me to eat off the floor, like an animal) and like a member of the family (instead of the "oops!  No more chairs!" move and making me sit in the unheated living room alone for Christmas dinner), he will have no part of her either.  I don't think that a healthy relationship with one's child is threatening, just like any healthy MIL shouldn't feel "threatened" by a DIL--though, oddly enough, many do.  I think it's disgusting and morally wrong, however, when a mother depends on her son for emotional support instead of her own husband.  I think it's disgusting that my MIL calls my DH "pet names" that are normally reserved for a spouse and that she treats him like a surrogate husband.  So, before you assume that I'm trolling or just not being nice enough or not giving my MIL a chance...maybe reconsider that I tried for years with my MIL and, while she will always be DH's mother, HE relegated her to the back seat of his life, not me.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on February 28, 2011, 03:36:23 PM
Vipers' nest? Hmm...

I don't think anyone was assuming anything.

I have a question...if MIL is this nasty...and your DH cut her off (obviously in defense of you...)...

Why are you so defensive in your explanation? Not only are you protected from that but  if she was making it a  competition...you clearly won. We all can accept that there are legitimate reasons to cutoff a family member...and we've supported people here that have. Based on the behavior that you describe, there is something unstable about your MIL, so again...you're still the clear winner. I dont think any of us would defend that behavior. We're certainly not vipers.

Is it not having any relationship at all with a MIL that bothers you? I'm just confused, b/c it seems by your post that you're very upset.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 28, 2011, 03:39:05 PM
How long did you know your MIL before the wedding?

I wish you would start your own thread and tell us everything from the begining, it's really hard to follow along when you post and run on different topics and try to keep up with all the information on your situation.  I think you would find a lot more support if you got one thread of your own going.  Just a thought
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on February 28, 2011, 04:05:52 PM
QuoteBut there comes a time when a man chooses--he chooses his wife over his mother when he takes a wedding vow, just as his mother did when she married his father.  He chose who he loves first and who he loves "more" as a promise to God

When statements such as the one above are express, I have to believe that you had preconceived notions of the way things had to be.  Your line was drawn in the sand, in your mind, you even had God on your side.

LFDS I must ask the same question that Holli did..  Your mil is cut out of your life, you won.. your dh proved to you that he loves you "more".. double win!!  If your mil was not willing to have the type of relationship with you and her son that you sought at least you were able to make the separation now.  So what is the continuing issue?

QuoteSo, before you assume that I'm trolling or just not being nice enough or not giving my MIL a chance...maybe reconsider that I tried for years with my MIL and, while she will always be DH's mother, HE relegated her to the back seat of his life, not me.

You brought up the trolling, no one here did oh and the viper's nest.. gosh those terms sound so familiar and I just can't quite put my finger on why.

Everyone here will use a background story in order to make a point, or to add a little levity to a topic.  But all I see you doing is ranting endlessly and at times tossing all mil's into the same murky water that your own lies in.  I either don't understand what you at trying to get from this forum, or I can't get past your mil rantings to see it.  I hope you are not really this angry of a person in real life.



Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: JaneF on February 28, 2011, 04:24:45 PM
I really do not understand why MIL/DS or MIL/DIL etc relationships all have to be a competition. That is childish in my opinion. Why can't a husband still have relationship with his FOO after the wedding? I don't mean an inappropriate relationship. I think husband should make wife priority of course, but why does either MIL or DIL have to remove the other party totally? The things stated by poster about oops, no more chairs and some of the other things MIL supposedly did sound awful, I agree totally. But if the husband did not tolerate that behavior and did stand up for his wife, why still the anger? Is there more still going on? We just need to understand, and it is a bit confusing. I agree with post about starting a new thread and explaining more so we can better understand the circumstances involved. I just am upset I suppose that some people (not necessarily those having anything to do with this thread!) have to WIN. There are some people that make it impossible to have a relationship, or a healthy one at least. I'd like to know more because I too am not sure about all things going on in that post, but I really want to be fair and get facts before I add any more comments. Wishing all the best.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: ladyfirstdilsecond on February 28, 2011, 04:30:48 PM
Also, Pooh--next time I need to write something, let me get your approval, okay?  I'll make sure you approve everything I think before it comes out, if you'll stop projecting your feelings into what I wrote, deal?

The reality is that if you're Christian, you made that vow when you got married.  That is the promise you made, whether you know it or not.  The "cleave" used actually means to hold tightly to and not even look around at what else is out there--good and bad--and "forsaking all others", used in ours and most other vows, means just that: putting aside everyone and everything else to love your spouse more than anything in the world, as God commanded.  That includes your own parents.  The "ranking" you have such a problem with is exactly that: ranking.  I didn't invent it.  In a Christian's hierarchy it is supposed to be 1) God, 2) Spouse, 3) children, 4) non-immediate family.  Mothers fall in category 4--both mine and my husband's.  I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept for so many husbands, mothers, and wives to grasp, but apparently, it is.  Reality of the world is that while my MIL may well have loved my husband long before I met him, she is not his wife and need not act like it or try to continue to control his life as if he's 10 again.  Her job in raising him is done and it's time to back off and let him live his life as an adult without subtly judging him or his wife, suggesting "helpful" things,or intruding, and by understanding that while she will always be his mother, it is time for him to be a man and live his life away from her--for better or worse.  Unfortunately, far too many women raise boys with the "well, mommy loved you first and will ALWAYS love you most" attitude, and that is leading to alot of women dealing with mamma's boys for husbands--"men" who shirk their responsibilities as husbands and fathers to bend over backwards to please their mothers.  This is not how it's supposed to be.  I have never competed for DH's love or affections--my MIL has, though, and lost.  I knew DH loved me enough that our needs as a family came before his mother's needs. 

No, in fact, I do not expect to love my children more than DH.  That is selfish and irresponsible. and, frankly, a major reason I see for much MIL/DIL drama.  Why would you even suggest that?  Mothers should NEVER put their role of "mother" before their role of "wife".  Doing so hurts their husband, hurts their marriage, and could lead to divorce.  To answer your somewhat misguided question, yes, in fact, I was raised in a healthy, happy home in which my parents told me, flat-out, that their marriage came before my needs.  THAT is being a good parent, not ignoring your husband or wife to run after your parent's or children's needs while your DH or DW is left holding the bad.  Being a good parent for your children involves making sure they have a good, solid foundation to grow on FIRST and making sure they know WHY.  My love for my children will be different , yes, but unlike my emotionally enmeshed MIL, I will be able to tell the difference between my sons and my DH.

Yes, DH loves his mother in a different way than he loves me--that was my point.  V-Day is about romantic love, not "oh, let's tell my mother how much we adore her" love.  When my children are adults, I will never expect them to call me on a day that is reserved for their spouse.  There are holidays meant for that--like, you know, Mother's Day.  Will I get a card on Mother's Day?  Nope, as I am not a mother yet.  (His mother won't either, but that's DH's choice, not mine.)  Will MIL get a card on Father's Day?  Nope.  Does anybody get a card on Arbor Day?  No.  My point is not that MIL's shouldn't be sent cards or shown affection--just that it needs to be done with the proper intentions at the proper time.  I noticed another lady on here said that her son called her on V-Day.  That's great if his priorities are in the right order and he's celebrating the love of his life--her DIL--on V-Day, not how much he loves his mother.  It's not a holiday for showing his mother how much he likes her--it's a holiday for showing his WIFE how important she is to him.  Why do MILs feel slighted if they don't get a call on every single holiday--including the one designed to be about his romantic love?  My MIL couldn't be bothered to call on Christmas or New Years--but by God, he got a nasty email from his mother when he didn't call her on the anniversary of his grandfather's death!  This is a game SHE plays--she even signs her emails with "PS--I know you love me more, but she won't let you tell me that."  Know what DH says to that?  Nasty names screamed at the computer screen directed at her.  Ideally, we shouldn't have to "make" our DH choose between us and his mother on V-Day--he should have already chosen his wife on V-Day as well as every day.  Not to say he should ignore his mother, but that if her needs conflict with his wife's needs--well...Biblically; wife's needs come before mother's every time.  Not doing so is a violation of what God commands.  (Now, I don't expect everyone to be Christians here, so don't scream at me about how "intolerant" that sounds, please?  If you're Jewish, the same God commands the same things to you.  If you're Muslim, you have similiar rules for how a marriage runs, etc.)  As much as I don't think it's a competition, my MIL DOES see it as one, as many MILs do.  (I read on one post where someone posted that a woman's son and DIL had "declared war" when it came to wedding plans.  If that's not "us vs. them" thinking, I don't know what is.)

I have noticed, though, that we don't see DILs saying how AWFUL it is that her parents called/sent a card/emailed/etc. on V-Day.  Possibly because most parents of the wife know that they did not lose a daughter, but gained a son, and are okay with the relationship.  I wonder how many MILs and DILs are at odds because many MILs felt like they were losing their son and felt  a "competition" with their DIL.  I've been accused of this, but in reality, I never felt in competition with my MIL for DH's love or affections--and never felt like his mother was a more important part of his life than me (though, THANKS for reading your own insecurities into my post and projecting them on me!).  I wanted a good relationship with her.  BUT, I see that many of you "ladies" (though not all--some of you have been great to me and I do thank you :-) ) see that I'm a DIL and automatically assume I'm here to cause trouble, so obviously, I'm an ogre who hates my poor MIL and she's really a darling.  If you see the world in black and white like that, no wonder you have problems with your DILs!!!  My relationship with my MIL is due to her inability to stop lying and being hateful long enough to see that I did not lure her darling sonny boy away from her with my "magic vagina" and that I am not trying to plot her demise simply because her son decided he was sick of her nonsense.  She can't think of others long enough to not make up lies about my mother and spread them around her family, call my family scumbags (when MIL failed her GED 7 times and my mother has a MEd), throw my food on the floor and tell me to eat off the floor like a dog, try to attack me with a paring knife, and other countless incidents.  No, the reason a relationship with her is not possible is because of her disgusting emotionally incestuous ideas surrounding her own son.  I came here for help and all I keep getting is narrow-minded old bitty gossip with the exception of some great ladies.  No wonder your DILs don't get along with you--maybe looking in the mirror is a good idea to find the "problem"!  Black and white never solved anything and, frankly, I wonder how many people looking for help have read things like what you've said to/about me and been scared off when they needed HELP.

Laurie--I'll be honest.  I'm defensive because of the air of "well, I'm obviously right and you obviously are an evil DIL" I read into your post and "questions".  I am not sure why I get alot of crap on this site, but I would wager it's because I am a DIL and there are alot of "preconceived notions" about DILs on this site.  I am hurt and upset because while I came here for HELP and the only thing I got was "Oh, well, I see that you must be in competition with your MIL because...well...you said things."  I hate being judged by strangers--and that is alot of stuff I got from my MIL and, honestly, from alot of people on this site.  I have spent years trying to prove that I am not the problem, that I'm not mean to my MIL, and that she is not the sane one.  Anybody who is related to a mentally ill person will tell you how hard it is to be blamed for everything when you either did nothing wrong or even tried to help.  I came on here for honest-to-goodness HELP and I have to start the whole ordeal all over again.

My line was not drawn in the sand and it took a very long time for me to realize that I was not the problem.  In fact, it took alot of couple's therapy and a very wise pastor as well.  The reality is that my DH and I are Christians--and we didn't draw any lines in any sand.  We tried for years but, eventually, my DH had to choose--continue a relationship with my wife or continue to fight with my mother about hoswunhealthy and wrong she is for being awful to me and my wife.  I don't consider it "winning"--good Lord, who would consider that my husband had to choose never to speak with his mother again a good thing?  Would YOU consider that "good"?  It's what is going to help us save our marriage, but it is certainly not a "good" thing.  And, no, I am not this angry in real life.  The continuing issue is that my MIL is a stalker; calling and leaving 3 minute breathing messages and sending emails to DH proclaiming how much she adores him and that she knows he loves her and that if only I weren't in the picture, they could be a happy family.  My issues with my MIL will not be over until she passes away.  I am sick of being blamed for his uncle's conversion to Islam (explain to me how I'm responsible for that) and the downfall of their "dynasty" (yes, she calls it that and then says I'm white trash tearing it down).  I am angry and hurt that even though DH has made it clear to her, there are people telling her that it's okay, and she's a good mom, and that she has a "right" to feel this way--much like what I read here.  I came here for help and advice on how to deal with this woman since, even though she's "cut out", she will never take the blunt hint and leave us alone.  I thought maybe I could find somewhere that I could get some support for DH and I without having to find a new church (since she ruined our relationships in our old church by telling everyone we stole from her and were abusing her--when we hadn't seen her in months), new friends, and, not be judged by strangers who assume I'm guilty until proven innocent. 

So, after this round of defending myself, I'm done.  There's no help to be had here, just a great deal of meaningless "I like puppies!" types of conversation and alot of MILs complaining about their DILs.  Remember ladies, that when you point a finger, there's 3 pointing back at you and even the MILs on here who claim to be "innocent", probably aren't.  I hope you see what kind of damage you have done to strangers lives and how hurtful you have been.   
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 28, 2011, 04:38:01 PM
Ok, well we can't make you stay here to join our silly conversations.  But wanted to let you know that people do not receive cards on Arbor Day b/c it would defeat the purpose of Arbor Day.  You're supposed to plant a tree.  Just a tidbit I thought I could share
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 28, 2011, 05:03:15 PM
I am sorry you are so frustrated with your personal life LFDS, but I think you will find that once you let go what you cannot control (ie- MIL badmouthing you, people telling her she is in the right, etc), you will be much happier.  Who cares what her clan thinks of her?  That shouldn't affect you since you aren't involved in each other's lives anymore.  You need to make a conscious decision to let go what you can't fix.  You and your husband are protecting yourselves and deserve happiness.

I do know you from your posts on dilsociety, and I feel I should warn you that just as much "damage" if not more, is being done there.  Think of your own words when you go there and read all the hatred of all things MILs.  "Remember ladies, that when you point a finger, there's 3 pointing back at you and even the MILs (DILs) on here who claim to be "innocent", probably aren't.  I hope you see what kind of damage you have done to strangers lives and how hurtful you have been."  Perpetuating your anger by bashing MILs because they are MILs (so they must be inherently evil) is doing damage and hurt to strangers lives as well.  Do you automatically assume that all DILs on that site are just like your MIL and making things up to make people feel sorry for them, or is that just isolated to this site? We're all women here and there, with all different titles.  What I would like to know is why you feel like people on this site must be making things up and exaggerating just like your MIL, but do you think that on the other site, they're totally honest and straightforward. 

I have empathy for you and I understand what it's like dealing with mentally ill people when you feel like you have to prove to everyone that you're right, but you're going to spin yourself around in circles till you puke if you don't just get off the crazy train.  Stop worrying about what everyone else thinks.  You've got your H and you've got your marriage and you should focus on the good things in your life now.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: overwhelmed123 on February 28, 2011, 05:07:05 PM
LFDS- I also missed your post where you came here explaining your situation and asked for help.  Where is it so I can read it?  I only saw you coming in here to give your 2 cents without anyone knowing what your IL background was.  Because we didn't know this information, your judgment of MILs came off very harsh.  All we can react to is what you have told us.  So maybe I missed the post where you explained your IL problems in detail and asked for help, but I really would like to see it.  Otherwise, there was no way we could have known your MIL tried to feed you off the floor and come at you with knives...that's not something someone would normally assume.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on February 28, 2011, 05:57:25 PM
LSDF... oh my goodness... I think you went off on us about a month ago didn't you.. are you the one with the self-proclaimed magic vagina?
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on February 28, 2011, 06:33:44 PM
OMG it is you and your magic vagina... it exploded again... clean up on aisle 7
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on February 28, 2011, 06:56:29 PM
I thought I might add the definition of trolling since you brought it up and people would probaly wonder what it meant:

Trolling is the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet, generally on message boards. When done in a moderated internet community, this can result in banning. My source is urbandictionary.com (not safe for work).

I'll let everyone else make up their minds as to what is going on here.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on February 28, 2011, 06:57:46 PM
Quote from: ladyfirstdilsecond on February 28, 2011, 04:30:48 PM
Also, Pooh--next time I need to write something, let me get your approval, okay?  I'll make sure you approve everything I think before it comes out, if you'll stop projecting your feelings into what I wrote, deal? 

Sorry, can't make that deal because I don't need to give my approval on anyone's opinion just as I don't need approval for mine.  But thanks for the offer.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 28, 2011, 07:00:21 PM
So...uh back to st patty's day...what you all doing for it?  Hey, actually did you guys celebrate it in school?  DH didn't but he didn't come from a very irish community, I don't know if that had anything to do with it.  We had big blowouts in elementary school, with a parade and full day of leprechauns and pots of golds to search for.  Lots of fun.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on February 28, 2011, 07:03:15 PM
I'm disappointed
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 28, 2011, 07:03:44 PM
Why?
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on February 28, 2011, 07:05:02 PM
I just googled 'magic vagina' and it said that unless I was born with one, mine was no different then anyone elses
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 28, 2011, 07:06:47 PM
hahahahahahahahah.  you mean born without one right?  omg.  But they are different.  Oh my, you know you're going to get me in trouble Laurie.  I'm not talking anymore about it.

And now, again, back to st patty's day!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on February 28, 2011, 07:07:21 PM
Laurie,

Luise will thank you for all this modifying she's going to have to do.

Pam,

St. Patty's Day? If I had my way, a bar crawl.  ;)

But, no babysitter...so ham and cabbage at home it is.

And pistachio cake. I love pistachio cake. It's green, so it works.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 28, 2011, 07:09:39 PM
Hmm, never had pistachio cake but I love pistachios.  Going to have to try that sometime.

I can't do bar crawls anymore, even with a babysitter.  just can't hang like I used too.  I want to have a party this year, hmmm. 
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on February 28, 2011, 07:10:37 PM
it's an appropriate word and dilf started it :) 

Is it St Paddy's Day or Patty's day.. lol.. I could have been spelling it wrong all these years.. My sister claims that she has more Irish in her because she was born first
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on February 28, 2011, 07:12:18 PM
I never said I could hang! I'm a lightweight.

Do you make Irish Potatoes? Or is that just a Philly thing?
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 28, 2011, 07:12:30 PM
I don't think it matters which way.

LOL about your sister.  I tell my younger siblings that I'm smarter since my egg was fresher than theirs lol
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 28, 2011, 07:13:42 PM
Quote from: holliberri on February 28, 2011, 07:12:18 PM
I never said I could hang! I'm a lightweight.

Do you make Irish Potatoes? Or is that just a Philly thing?

What is it?  I might but just call it a different name
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on February 28, 2011, 07:15:03 PM
that's  right Pam.. now send them your theory of the underwater hotel and they may not believe that fresh egg idea  ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on February 28, 2011, 07:16:41 PM
Quote from: pam1 on February 28, 2011, 07:13:42 PM
Quote from: holliberri on February 28, 2011, 07:12:18 PM
I never said I could hang! I'm a lightweight.


What is it?  I might but just call it a different name
Lightweight... someone who crawls after the first drink
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on February 28, 2011, 07:18:15 PM
Its made with coconut nougat shaped like a small potato (really the size of a large grape), and it's dipped in cinnamon and cocoa power. It's very sweet, kind of chewy. The coconut flavor isn't totally overpowering.

That probably answers my question! LOL.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: pam1 on February 28, 2011, 07:20:27 PM
Nope, don't make it.  Sounds good though.

My underwater hotel theory I believe is pretty sound, hmph.  I'm going to ask someone tomorrow if I'm right, so there!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on February 28, 2011, 07:22:09 PM
well don't  ask a business major.. they will only talk about the profit and loss margin after the darn thing sinks
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on February 28, 2011, 07:24:48 PM
Wiki: Philadelphia tradition.

That does answer my question. Darn. So much for being authentic Irish. Just like when I went to Italy and found out cannolis weren't a staple.

LOL...James Cameron might need your expertise for his new Avatar: Under the Sea (I made that name up) movie, Pam. I am sure he needs a plausible story line for the threatened underwater world the Na'vi people are living in.

You could get a chunk of his billions! You better ask!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: tryingmybest on February 28, 2011, 08:27:41 PM
I just read this whole thread....lord I love this site! It is so cool to have access to funny, smart women who span all age ranges and "titles". Magic! LOL! ;D.

Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on February 28, 2011, 08:42:24 PM
At least one person has referred to us as www.WildWomenUnite.com  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on March 01, 2011, 06:12:34 AM
If my YS was home, we normally do a big to-do on St. Paddy's for his birthday.  This will be his 21st birthday, so we could have finally took him around for green beer!  Dang....but since he is in the military and now across the country away from me, we probably will not do much of anything but look for people to pinch.

Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Tara on March 01, 2011, 08:16:08 AM
My dh likes St Pattys day.  He is from a cross cultural family so he is part:  peruvian, columbia, english, irish.  So, he likes to
celebrate...maybe I'll ask him if he would like to do something special.  Or maybe do like Pooh, look for some people to pinch

8) 8)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on March 01, 2011, 10:40:34 AM
Since my sister got all the Irish (being born first and all) I'm going to ignore the holiday all together.  I only have so many hallmark occasions I can handle in one lifetime.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 01, 2011, 12:24:13 PM
I had one birthday party in my entire childhood (depression) and fondly remember all  the St. Patrick's decorations.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Hope on March 01, 2011, 07:35:45 PM
You ladies are golden!  I sure had fun reading this thread - laughing out loud....that really felt good.  On the valentine topic, first of all I want to say, "you go, girl", to Luise with the generous gift from her friend.  Very nice!  I wanted to add that my dm use to send all her gc a small valentine card with a little cash in it each year until they were adults and my dh use to always buy our kids those small boxes of conversation hearts when growing up and me a card and gift.  I never gave our kids any thing for valentine's day - only dh.  I think it's fine to give Valentine day cards to anyone you want to - as long as they are appropriately worded.  Personally, if I gave a val card to my ds, I would address it to both him and my dil.  The first year our ds was married he gave each one of us in our family a small gift - which really surprised me.  I just figured our dil gave each person in her family and gift, so he followed suit.  We didn't reciprocate (wasn't expecting anything and totally unprepared) and he hasn't given us a valentine gift/card since. This year we gave our gs a practical gift for his 1st valentine's day, but didn't make a big deal about it.  My dh gave it to our ds when he saw him that day and that was that.  I plan to do the same for all our gc.  We never celebrate St. Patty's day, but hey, I'm not opposed to any celebrations.  Life is too short - so I believe in any and all celebrating we can get.  Thanks for the great entertainment.  Better than watching TV!
Hugs, Hope
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pen on March 01, 2011, 09:43:05 PM
We were sort of forced into doing something for these holidays when the kids would come home from school proud of their paper leprechauns, handmade valentines or whatever. I would cook something appropriate but never went overboard with decor, just let the kids' school projects brighten up the place.

I gave DS & DD valentine's gifts (tiny little ones) when they were at home. DD still gets a kick out of it, they make a big deal out of every holiday at her day program. I don't send anything to DS & DIL. DH gets something special.

Hope, you are so right - life is too short not to celebrate every chance we get, so I will make more of an effort. Not Martha status, although she always has gorgeous projects...I'm not that motivated!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: willingtohelp on March 02, 2011, 06:43:25 PM
I've bought my corned beef and started soaking my raisins in Irish whiskey for my soda bread.  I love St. Patrick's Day.  The food is almost as good as Thanksgiving, and since it's SOOO unhealthy, I only make it once a year.  Yum.  Godiva I can take or leave, but some good colcannon is fantastic. 
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: willingtohelp on March 02, 2011, 06:45:40 PM
Am I losing it or was there once an edit button?  Irish should be capitalized in that last post. 
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on March 02, 2011, 07:11:35 PM
Quote from: clover on March 02, 2011, 06:45:40 PM
Am I losing it or was there once an edit button?  Irish should be capitalized in that last post.

Yes.. we were bad.. our modify and delete buttons have been removed
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 02, 2011, 07:41:30 PM
Done!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on March 02, 2011, 07:50:58 PM
I give.. what is soda bread?
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on March 02, 2011, 07:53:58 PM
Oh my goodness.. I always thought I wanted to see Ireland.. but unless you like corned beef and lamb  it looks like you might starve .... I think I'll make vanilla pudding with green food coloring and call myself happy.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 02, 2011, 07:57:31 PM
I used to make soda bread. Oh, my mouth is watering. Fresh and hot...heaven!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on March 02, 2011, 07:58:52 PM
ohhhh when I had that fresh hot an heaven feeling I was suppose to be thinking bread
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on March 03, 2011, 05:22:57 AM
I had to look up soda bread and colcannon (I'm food illiterate).  They both look yummy.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on March 03, 2011, 05:31:27 AM
They are delicious, Pooh. My dad makes soda bread every year for St. Patty's Day. Clover, we only make it once a year too. I think I ate two loaves myself last year, though.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: willingtohelp on March 04, 2011, 07:12:42 AM
I'll post my recipes once I dig them out.  If you want to make the soda bread, you can either start soaking raisins now in whiskey or wait till the day before and soak them in some warm apple juice.  It's just to plump them and make them sweet and flavorful. Colcannon is a potato cabbage mash that tastes wonderful.  Soda bread is a sweet dry bread that pairs great with butter or with the flavors of the corned beef.   I don't use caraway seeds in mine, but some prefer them if it's meant to be served with more savory items.  Corned beef, I imagine, is self explanatory, but if not, it's beef soaked in a flavored brine for a long time and then cooked with cabbage, onions, potatoes, and carrots (yes, I have two different types of potatoes on St Patty's Day).  For dessert I usually make a pistachio ice cream torte (layers of ice cream and angel food cake).  Can you tell I'm excited?

Oh, many thanks for correcting the capitalization.  I must've missed an interesting time. 
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pen on March 04, 2011, 08:32:26 AM
Quote from: clover on March 04, 2011, 07:12:42 AM
I'll post my recipes once I dig them out.  If you want to make the soda bread, you can either start soaking raisins now in whiskey or wait till the day before and soak them in some warm apple juice.  It's just to plump them and make them sweet and flavorful. Colcannon is a potato cabbage mash that tastes wonderful.  Soda bread is a sweet dry bread that pairs great with butter or with the flavors of the corned beef.   I don't use caraway seeds in mine, but some prefer them if it's meant to be served with more savory items.  Corned beef, I imagine, is self explanatory, but if not, it's beef soaked in a flavored brine for a long time and then cooked with cabbage, onions, potatoes, and carrots (yes, I have two different types of potatoes on St Patty's Day).  For dessert I usually make a pistachio ice cream torte (layers of ice cream and angel food cake).  Can you tell I'm excited?

Oh, many thanks for correcting the capitalization.  I must've missed an interesting time.

What time should we arrive?
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 04, 2011, 10:36:47 AM
It was interesting, Clover...that's for sure. We had people who got into it and then modified their posting so the responses didn't make any sense and then to really confuse issues, whole posts were deleted.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on March 04, 2011, 12:14:04 PM
It was Laurie's fault!!!!  Bah ha ha ha ha ha....
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on March 04, 2011, 12:30:27 PM
LOL.. no it wasn't... Now she is going to believe you Pooh.. If I wasn't me.. I'd believe you
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on March 04, 2011, 12:34:30 PM
What? (Blink, Blink)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 04, 2011, 03:33:05 PM
I thought we had come to the conclusion some time back that everything is Laurie's fault, right?
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on March 04, 2011, 04:43:09 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on March 04, 2011, 03:33:05 PM
I thought we had to the conclusion some time back that everything is Laurie's fault, right?
Oh that really did make me laugh... good one Luise
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 04, 2011, 04:52:09 PM
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on March 07, 2011, 06:03:21 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on March 04, 2011, 03:33:05 PM
I thought we had come to the conclusion some time back that everything is Laurie's fault, right?

That's what I remember.   ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 07, 2011, 10:40:41 AM
You could have said that? I'm going to delete that member!!  :o
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on March 07, 2011, 10:55:48 AM
Oh you'd  miss me to much to delete me.. and don't give my dh any ideas if he thought all you had to do was hit the delete button, he might have this weekend :)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 07, 2011, 11:05:11 AM
I was talking about deleting the person who said that about you....that it was always your fault!

Joke, Laurie...because it was me.  :o
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on March 07, 2011, 11:18:57 AM
Oh I was following Luise... I even caught that Pooh was stirring up trouble yet again.... Pooh, don't you have like a 911 call to answer  ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 07, 2011, 11:27:07 AM
Oh, Fu Manchu! I thought I have caught you sleeping, Laurie. (Fat chance!) Are you saying foo on Pooh?  :D :D :D

You guys are such fun!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on March 07, 2011, 11:29:21 AM
Nope!  I'm not working dispatch today...nanner...nanner....in my normal job (boring!).

Moi?  Stir up trouble?  Well I never!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Nana on March 08, 2011, 02:12:12 AM
No Luise...dont delete LaurIe and/or Pooh....we will miss a lot of laughing....give them another chance LOL.   We need someone to blame huh?

Love
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on March 08, 2011, 11:59:46 AM
See?  Nana love us!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Nana on March 08, 2011, 03:42:25 PM
Sure I do Pooh...dont ever doubt it  (hihi)

Love you
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 08, 2011, 03:52:01 PM
I think if they ever left our forum, we'd have to close shop. Long Live The Terrilble Two! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on March 09, 2011, 06:10:44 AM
Way to go Laurie....now you done got me lumped in with you!   ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on March 09, 2011, 07:01:07 AM
ahhh that's not so bad Pooh.. you know I have a good heart.. now head on over, the sun is out we'll sit by the pool and ponder :)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 09, 2011, 08:39:27 AM
You guys are all heart!  :D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on March 09, 2011, 10:29:55 AM
Yes, you do have a most wonderful heart and I shall be proud to be lumped into the Terrible Two with you.  Can we rent a convertible though and go down the road trying to get truck drivers to honk though?
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 10, 2011, 02:57:57 PM
Oh, those poor truck drivers!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on March 10, 2011, 03:39:57 PM
My boys use to do that and I'd be driving along and HOOOOOOOONNNNNNNKKKKKK... I'd about wreck trying to get out of the trucker's way to realize that they were playing with my boys...   Then I had a car pull up close to me and honk... I looked over and she was pointing at my back window.. my boys had opened a box of tampons and were shooting them at passing cars...  The way I look at it is.. I did not abuse my kids, they abused me.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 10, 2011, 05:26:47 PM
That's hilarious!!!!  ;D ;D ;D (Couldn't happen to a sweeter gal!) I left my eldest in the car, momentarily, and he took my lipstick and drew pictures across the windshield!)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on March 10, 2011, 05:33:06 PM
Quote from: Laurie on March 10, 2011, 03:39:57 PM
My boys use to do that and I'd be driving along and HOOOOOOOONNNNNNNKKKKKK... I'd about wreck trying to get out of the trucker's way to realize that they were playing with my boys...   Then I had a car pull up close to me and honk... I looked over and she was pointing at my back window.. my boys had opened a box of tampons and were shooting them at passing cars...  The way I look at it is.. I did not abuse my kids, they abused me.

For the longest time my brother called them harpoons and tried to treat them as such. I can't figure out the fascination. It's cotton and cardboard. I thought it was just his personal affliction...

Mental note: If I ever have sons....

Laurie, I just had a vision of your son sharing something personal with you on a lengthy car ride, and you providing all sorts of wisdom like a good mom...then...HOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNKKKKKKKKK!!!

I know that didn't happen, but it makes me laugh anyway.
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pen on March 10, 2011, 06:28:44 PM
How did we go from Valentines to tampons?

http://www.tamponcrafts.com/bouquet.html (http://www.tamponcrafts.com/bouquet.html)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 10, 2011, 06:40:18 PM
In a nano-second!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on March 10, 2011, 06:45:34 PM
Pen, that just might be the link between the two!
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on March 10, 2011, 07:21:16 PM
Quote from: Pen on March 10, 2011, 06:28:44 PM
How did we go from Valentines to tampons?

http://www.tamponcrafts.com/bouquet.html (http://www.tamponcrafts.com/bouquet.html)

oh that was to funny Pen. 

Tampon started a war at my  home growing up... My mom claimed that you could only use them after you had a baby lol ... she had no clue that I could make her a bouquet of pretty flowers
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on March 11, 2011, 06:35:29 AM
Oh, we can take any thread and go off on another subject entirely...we just have that talent!

Pen, that was hilarious but I have to admit, I cringed when I read the line at the top that said if you used the scented products, they would produce a "spring-time fresh fragrance".  I've never understood that anyway.  If you need to put scented products up there...you might want to have that thing checked!  (Sorry Luise... ;D)

Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 11, 2011, 07:29:15 AM
I'm sorry, too. :(
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pen on March 11, 2011, 08:10:53 AM
I contributed...sorry  :-[
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 11, 2011, 08:14:41 AM
All our sorry stuff is just in fun, right?  ;)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on March 11, 2011, 08:16:13 AM
Oh absolutely, I was saying sorry for saying "that thing", not for going off subject.   ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: luise.volta on March 11, 2011, 08:18:01 AM
;D ;D
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: LaurieS on March 11, 2011, 10:44:23 AM
LOL  I was more exact in conversations with my kids then I am here at times "that thing" :)
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: Pooh on March 11, 2011, 11:09:02 AM
Me too...but I am trying to be all politically correct here.....  :o
Title: Re: A little Valentine sympathy for DS/DH - the man in the middle.
Post by: holliberri on March 19, 2011, 10:37:27 AM
Quote from: clover on March 04, 2011, 07:12:42 AM
I'll post my recipes once I dig them out.  If you want to make the soda bread, you can either start soaking raisins now in whiskey or wait till the day before and soak them in some warm apple juice.  It's just to plump them and make them sweet and flavorful. Colcannon is a potato cabbage mash that tastes wonderful.  Soda bread is a sweet dry bread that pairs great with butter or with the flavors of the corned beef.   I don't use caraway seeds in mine, but some prefer them if it's meant to be served with more savory items.  Corned beef, I imagine, is self explanatory, but if not, it's beef soaked in a flavored brine for a long time and then cooked with cabbage, onions, potatoes, and carrots (yes, I have two different types of potatoes on St Patty's Day).  For dessert I usually make a pistachio ice cream torte (layers of ice cream and angel food cake).  Can you tell I'm excited?

Oh, many thanks for correcting the capitalization.  I must've missed an interesting time.

Clover! We made soda bread, but this time I took your idea of soaking them in Irish Whiskey. Yummy! My dad is making a second loaf for our St.  Patrick's Day party down at a boat club. Thank you fro the idea!!  :) :) :)