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I have been uninvited to my sons wedding.

My son and I have had a difficult relationship for the past 15 years. I left his father when he was ten and his brother was five. The way he sees it is that I destroyed his childhood. He doesn't see that I was fifteen when I met his father who was twenty four at the time. He doesn't see that I was sixteen when I got pregnant for him. He doesn't see that I did the best that I could with what I had, and with what I knew. He doesn't see that I love him. I wish he could see how his father was and what life was really like for us. He blames me for his father not being in his life. His father lived a tortured life of addiction, and sadly died two years ago of a drug overdose.     

Here we are present day and my son and I had been getting along pretty well for the past three years. I could always feel the distance between us, and he has always been a little cold towards me, but we were getting along. I was happy he was getting married and he was including me and my c/l husband in the plans. My c/l husband and I offer to pay for a part of the wedding. Everything was going great until I asked if my c/l husbands (my stepdaughter) seven year old daughter could be invited to the church. Not the dinner, and not the reception, just the church. He is having a no kids wedding. Well it's really just the kids they want. There is a flower girl and ring barer. Some can say I should of never asked but I thought we were family, and I didn't think it was too much to have her be included at least just a little bit. Well that one question has brought up fifteen years of hate.

He hates me and wants nothing to do with. I am selfish, fake, and manipulative. I ruined his childhood and he carries around this hate for me that he can take no longer hide... I am in shock. He doesn't want me at his wedding, his doesn't want anything do do with me. He thinks I am trying to ruin his wedding.  We have very little family, his finance however has a huge family and perfect parents. I feel like her whole family look down upon me including her.  Part of me feels like he is embarrassed to have me there. I don't know what to think or what to do. All I know is in three weeks my son will get married, and I can't imagine how I will get through this, or past this, or over this.

   
     

Mary Ann, I just read your post and read the pain also, which mirrors my own.  I welcome you here, you will find a lot of help to cope with this sadness in your life, and find a wealth of strategies to both heal the relationship with your son, and get your life on track.  I have a very very similar background as you.  My ds (son) has held animosity toward me since he was very small, (he's now over 30)  but it escalated during the divorce from his father, who made our lives a living hell for over a decade.  My ds told me last Christmas he never wanted to talk with me again.  I thought the planet spun out of control at that moment, and it has take me just until recently to believe that it had resettled on its axis, and that I could go on with a heartbeat.  There are many layers to these situations, and if you will read and read these womens' stories, you will start seeing parallels to your own, and start finding answers.

I read the book by Josh Coleman initially about When Parents Hurt, and it set me free from the guilt and self torture I felt regarding my son.  I learned a lot of the problem was his personality which was structured around blame, entitlement, and self centeredness.  He has made a little contact with me since that time, by email, but I learned that my ceaseless attempts to nurture him and apologize and love him unconditionally exacerbated his mean behavior toward me.  Each child is different, and there's no blanket way of healing a rift, but through this forum you may learn to understand and get to know your own son beyond your feelings that he inspires in you, and you can get enough clarity to explore.  When you are in so much pain, you can't see things clearly.  For now, put him on a shelf, and work on reading and writing until you can begin to make sense of it.    You have done nothing wrong with the wedding request.  This was reasonable and his response is out of context.  There must be other things going on, maybe the marriage is erupting feelings about his family history, I don't know, but it isn't about what you did or said on that occasion. 

As parents, we can't help but damage our children at some time or other.  Life is too unpredictable and spontaneous to make perfect calls all the time, and at the same time most everything is pretty much beyond our control.  When our children have grown up in really troubled families, they just have to mature and learn empathy, to learn what it feels like to be human and make mistakes with the best of intentions.  This just takes time.   And for a while, we often just have to tolerate painful feelings as parents,  It won't kill us, it just feels like it will. 

Finding other sources of love to fill the void of our children goes a long way to getting whole again.  You have much insight to offer others from your life experience.  You can use that here.   God bless you and don't lose hope or feel despair.  Growing pains are a part of life.  Just send your son a sweet card and reaffirm you love him and your heart will be with him on that special day.  Don't bring up any of your own pain or issues with feeling left out.  Keep it brief.

Much love to you.

Mary-Ann, Welcome :)

Please read the Forum Agreement and WWU History in the category Open Me First when you get a chance.  We ask all new members to do so not b/c there is anything wrong with your post.  I think you'll find a lot of support here, glad you found us.

I'm so sorry that you're going through this.  Does your son say anything else that is actually a complaint?  Or is it "you ruined my life" 

My take is that your son was waiting for an opportunity to blow up at you and banish you from his life and that he used your request to support that. I think it was just a matter of time and that there was/is nothing you can do about it. He has his own perceptions and blame is great way to turn them into concrete. You deserve so much better. We all do. Sending love...

Thank you ladies for the love. I am happy I found this place too. I was feeling like an alien. I read the Forum Agreements and Open Me First and understand the rules and purpose for this forum.  I will look for the book you suggested Ruth. I really need to make sense out of all of this.   

My ds has a lot to say but the best way to sum up his position is to say that I never put him first. I never made him feel important. All my decision regarding our life were selfish and self serving.  He wanted to live with his father. The courts decided that he should live with me because his father never showed up in court to fight for him. His father disappeared from the picture by the time he was twelve. My ds thinks I kept his father from him. He say he is emotionally damaged and it is my fault. He has also included in this last blowout that I never accepted his fiancee and that I did not pay attention to her at her bridal shower?? I can't even answer that. I helped pay for some of the food and drinks at the shower. I helped her mother prepare food the day before the shower. I came early to set up, and stayed till everything was cleaned up. He also feels that I am putting my stepdaughter, my c/l husband ahead of him and his feeling. That wasn't my intention, I just want both my families to share in his special day. I tell him I love him, I tell him I am sorry but he doesn't hear it.       

Yes Luise, I feel that way too. Maybe it's easier for him for me to be out of his life than in it.   

I can empathize with the pain of being on the receiving end of an AC angry outbursts.  My YDD has said some hurtful things and done some things that just seem to come so totally unexpected and out of nowhere.

I am sorry that you have had these experiences and are hurting.  You will get through it even though it feels so ugly right now.

This forum offers so much support and care for all of us.  It is nice to know that we are not in this alone.  Reading other postings and discovering other ways of looking at your own situation is not only helpful but also very insightful.

I read many of the postings and even write down some of the ideas in a notebook that I keep by my computer.  This enables me to process the ideas and think about them as I sleep.  The next morning I seem to have gained some additional insight into my own situation with my YDD.  Things that I had not even considered before reading on this site.

Please know that as mothers of AC we offer as much support as we can muster.  Take care of yourself.  You deserve the absolute best you have to offer yourself. :D

Welcome Mary-Ann.  I'm with Luise.  I think although the relationship has been better the last few years, he clearly has not dealt with his anger towards you and this was an opportunity for him to justify being angry.  I really don't see anything wrong with you asking, as long as you were willing to accept that the answer could be no since they made it clear it was a no kids wedding.  I can see where he could have been a little irritated that you asked, but nothing like blowing up and uninviting you unless he was just waiting for an opportunity to be able to do that.

Quote from: Mary-Ann on September 23, 2011, 11:55:18 AM
He has also included in this last blowout that I never accepted his fiancee and that I did not pay attention to her at her bridal shower?? I can't even answer that. I helped pay for some of the food and drinks at the shower. I helped her mother prepare food the day before the shower. I came early to set up, and stayed till everything was cleaned up.

Now this...could be a perception on their part.  I had the same thing happen to me.  My DIL requested a cook-out for her rehearsal dinner.  Afterwards, she was angry with me and DH because she felt like we avoided her and her family all evening.  DH and I spent all afternoon preparing for it, starting grilling in the middle of their rehearsal (it was a wedding at my parent's home and they were in the front, we were around back and not included in any of the wedding) so it would be ready when they were done and had to grill through most of the dinner.  By the time we were done and running back and forth refilling everything else, people were done and beginning to leave, so then we had to clean everything up.  She had over 50 people there for it, so it was alot of food and we went non-stop for about 6 hours.

My perception was that we gave them a very nice rehearsal dinner and everyone enjoyed it, but no...we didn't get to participate.  Her perception was we were avoiding her and her family.

We have two different perceptions of the event so maybe your DS/FDIL do too since it sounds like you were busy helping?

You didn't deserve any of it - the anger, the blame, the rudeness - none of it, Maryann!

hi Mary-Ann and welcome ...
My son was married 4 weeks ago , and the run up to that date he was a changed person .
My only light here might be the same for your son , and the pressure is getting to him .
Nearer the date , I can only hope that he realises what he has done and welcomes you to the
wedding .
Also the pressure the bridezilla puts on the groom is tremendous , my son practically ran round in
circles , and blew out anyone who got in his way . Totally out of character for him .
Are you still paying for a chunk of it ? I'm sure he'll miss that .

Pooh:
On my Ds's wedding day , I spent the whole day running after my GD , hence I do not appear in hardly
any photos .............plenty of the brides FOO though .
We always seem to get the dirty end of the stick !

I'll say, lancaster - dirty deal.  I am getting a Heads Up for sure.  Better to know and not be blindsided.  Sorry for all the pain and suffering when weddings are supposed to be the happiest time for the family. 

Ok, I know that talking to other family members is not thought highly of in this forum - but I wonder if you could bring in the other mother and ask for her help?  After all, a bigger family is being formed.  You don't have to get into all the details, but you could let her know that you've been uninvited but that you would dearly love to come. (You would, right?)   

Or if there is a pastor, talk to that person?  Whoever is going to officiate?  Surely someone could talk to your son and get him to see the other side.

That's if you really want to go to the wedding.  When DS got married things were very ragged the few months ahead of the event.  I went, but I can't say enjoyed it , though I did put on a good act.   

Thank you again ladies for the love and words of wisdom.

Wedding are supposed to be a happy time, and I was really looking forward to it. Yes, my ds is under a lot of stress and my dil to be is being a bit of a bridezila. But I know that I did not deserve this reaction. 

No, I am not paying for any part of the wedding now. At first my dh (I will drop the c/l) and I agreed to pay for the late lunch, wine at dinner, and the rehearsal dinner. My dh also works for a car dealership and offered to get them a luxury car to dive on their wedding. This might sound cold but if I am not good to be there then money is not good enough.

I personally have no issue with children being at a wedding. My ds was the ring barer when I married his father. He was 2 1/2 and he was a hoot. I tried to remind him of that. Weddings are about two people coming together but it is also about two families coming together. It is sad that they did not see it that way.

Not that I care about what people think but I just imagine my ds's wedding day. His father is gone and his mother is not there. My dil to be family will think what kind of mother could I of been to have her son not want her at his wedding. Simple Man was the song we picked as the mother and son dance. My youngest ds is my ds"s best man. I will miss so much.

Thank you Doe, A couple of good friends suggested that as well. I am torn on what I should do. I want to be at my ds wedding but I want my ds to want me there. I am afraid that I will cause even more damage if I ask other people to get involved. He already thinks I am manipulative. My yds does not want to get in the middle of it and he is not picking side. I completely understand and respect that.  I honestly don't know what to do. 

Thank you for giving me a place to let out my sadness. 

Hmm.

I think that if other people who knew him got involved, it would give him the opportunity to change his mind.  If the family story is going to be "DS refused to let Mom come to the wedding" he's going to look like a childish creep to everyone.
     
FWIW, my son got mad at us before his wedding and said he didn't want the financial help we had offered (rehearsal dinner, grooms tuxes, some h'moon help) and stormed away.  Weeks later, when DIL found out she made him come back and eat crow (his words) and apologize and get the money! 

I think truth deserves some sunlight - and then you can see the faults that can be corrected.

MA:  My heart aches for you.  For now just let things be and the path will be clearer.  You are not deserving of this...try not to take it all on your shoulders.  Hold your head high.  So often on these forums you will read the same story, that for whatever reason our AC just rage against us out of the blue, leaving us bereft and stunned. 

I had a similar history.  And I had a lot of problems because of stepchildren.  No easy road. 

You have three weeks yet.  Step back, deep breathe.  It hurts a lot but things can change overnight like so many WW here say.  What you can do is be good to yourself.  What would make you happy?  Perhaps by getting together some of his childhood photos into a book for him as a wedding gift.  Do something positive.  Your mood is not dependent on his.  Regardless of how many weddings he has (just kidding about this) he will still only have one mother.  Hugs and strength going out to you....keep posting!!

So true...you all have said so much of what is true.  I agree, and so many of us have the same story.  Me too.  Whether it is the unfair banishment or the "overdoing" at ds's wedding.  All of it...

Ruth's comments got me thinking too about "perfect parenting" and what that might mean. when I go walking in nature, a forest or through the hills, or on an ocean or lake, I sometimes take time to notice how messy everything is. Isn't that true?  The leaves are a tangle, and broken or dead  branches stick awkwardly out like so many sore thumbs, and there is dirt everywhere covering everything!  Rocks are irregular and damage is done to hillsides by torrential rivers and rainstorms.  Every wave is different, and often they run into each other or into the shore.  Nature is full of imperfection, and yet it is that imperfection that makes it just perfect.  It appears this is the  Creator's way.  Maybe being "perfect" according to the silly propaganda generated by the media, etc. is unattainable and ultimately nonexistent.  Which of course means I walk around feeling completely inadequate or confused or defensive...and on and on.  And the folks who are supposed to love me and support me, and maybe give me the benefit of the doubt occasionally or cut me some slack - that would be nice too!! Well, maybe they suffer from the same illusions.  My G.. how we have fallen and are so judgmental of one another.

I don't want to be "perfect" anymore.  This is my official notice that I am not in the business of being perfect and am not going to expect you to be perfect either. Pass it forward please.

SJ, what a beautiful post. That's how I was feeling, but couldn't put it into words.

Now I see why DIL & her FOO have trouble with me and DH; they are of the "perfect" world and DH & I are of the natural world. I too get caught up in chasing after that other world, but it never works because it is unattainable, as you said, at least for me. I much prefer the wilderness anyway.

Another thing.........how come we forgive our children all their discretions , however they don't reciprocate us ........?

I think it's because we are older, and have gained wisdom over the years that life it too short, people make mistakes and a general sense of "chilling out" as we age.  I know that the last 10 years, I have learned to let the little things go that used to drive me bonkers.  I have also learned what is important in life...love, relationships, companionship,health, laughter and joy.  It's no longer about houses, gifts, things....I have hope that someday, they will reach that point as well.

And I should have said that yes, I am referencing those of us with difficult DC.  I know we have younger DILs on here that have already figured that out.   ;D

Beautiful SJ -- analogy of the forest's messiness and our own nature.  I am not perfect and you don't have to be perfect with me.  Pass it on :) 

Mary-Ann, I've just come thought a similar situation.

It's incredibly painful to find that your son doesn't want you at his wedding, but I wouldn't try to "get" an invitation.  It's their wedding, who they invite is up to them, it seems like quite a big deal to blow up at you for wanting to including another child in the celebration, but that's how these people are.  My son also told me that I ruined his life because I broke up the family (when he was 4 years old after coming back from a visit from his father just after our divorce).  I told him to come back to me in about 20 years, and while most of those years in between were really good, we are now back to the 4 year old point of view.

Being left of the wedding is painful, it's almost like being kept away from the "Finish Line" after many years of coaching our children from birth. 

I spent my son's wedding day with some close friends and don't have any plans to subject myself to any more of the "blame game".  My son has his life to lead and I am off to lead mine.

I know the pain that you re feeling but I don't think there is any way out of this, I think the purpose of this response is to cause you pain. 

I think your son and mine would need to get some serious counselling to have them understand and acknowledge that we did the best we could, when their fathers weren't someone they could count on.  I think they turn the resentment and emotions that have been buried deep since their young years onto the target they feel a sense of power over.

It's sad beyond measure, but I've done my crying and now that the date of the wedding is behind me, I feel a tremendous sense of relief, almost as if a sword was hanging over my head until then. 

Don't think about anyone else's "perfect parents", or anyone else,  just thing about your future, and what you can do to make your life better and better.  Keep on trucking, if you brought up your son as a teen mom, and his father has already passed away because of an addition, you are a strong woman.  You probably don't know how strong you are, but it's time to turn your strength towards focusing on your life, unfortunately there are times when life is very painful, sadly that's part of it.

Good luck,
KG

You know, Marriage/wedding is always on the list of the top stressful events in a person's life.   Maybe this son is a little overwhelmed.

KeysG - I am surprised that this wedding cut-off is not so unusual as I thought.  The fact that you went through it and can understand how it feels is so helpful.  How painful for anyone to feel that rejection.  You are such a good soul to share this here and offer hope.  I agree totally with stopping the blame game all the way around.  Letting family seek counseling and setting appropriate boundaries to not beat yourself up about past parenting foibles is my recommendation too.  I have been through more than one painful cut-off and each time it blew my mind.  I had physical symptoms, dizziness, upset stomach, thought I was going to pass out and my heart hurt a lot.  These events are real to us and cannot be ignored.  You need to take care of yourself, get support here and elsewhere - it matters, you matter, you are very important.  Hope you can have peace soon. sending hugs, 

One of you said something about 'this wedding cut off may not be so unusual...'  got me thinking also.  I think that if the AC is of the angry, vindictive mode, these memorable occasions, i.e. wedding, graduation, grandchild, provide rich fodder for stabbing away at the parent.  That is so unfortunate, because these events live on and on.  I was uninvited to my ds college graduation.  Also when ds left for military to be gone six years, he didn't even come to tell me goodbye.  I understand how you feel Mary Ann, its a stinking place to be.  Know that you are in good company, and we have all cried likewise.

I think of you often Lancaster and the ordeal you've had with DIL and DS in home and the wedding, sorry your worthy face didn't make it into many of the photos.  Its too bad you couldn't have used 'Smiles' new gorilla face for those pictures.

And I would like to say that I am also a wilderness person.  We have to walk a lonely path sometimes, because we don't usually hide behind masks.

Smilesback@u, I'm doing fine, had a lot of problems with my blood pressure in the time frame leading up to the wedding, but those problems have disappeared.   I'm moving on, and I'm am in no hurry for a "reconciliation"........there are many people on this board who have a lot more "heart" than I do, but after going through the grief and hostility of recently memory, I wouldn't be in any hurry to see my son or his wife any time before Halley's Comet returns. (not sure when that is, but I'll bet it's not next month).

I'm now supremely protective of my health, happiness and peace of mind.  I'm not getting any younger, and I'm not wasting another minute with anyone who wants to give me any grief, wedding related or otherwise. 

Glad you are here Keys, you have a great sense of humor that lights the way.   What's done is done, and I take heed in realizing that bad things do happen to good people...and to be prepared to re-focus, re-group and make a good life for myself.  The letting go of expectations just got a little harder.  Hugs to you all.   

KG, I want to be you when I grow up.

thankyou for your thoughts Ruth ,
I guess I am a big softy really where my kids are concerned , however I think that if the tables were to turn
again , they would find a different Momma next time .
Things are going smoothly at the moment , and yes there are still things that make me bite my tongue ,
my GD is the shining light through it all , and it's for her that I am doing this .
Six weeks till move out day , and I really hope they remember where I live , if my GD wasn't part of this scenario
I wouldn't be so anxious .
I only see my ODS twice a year , and my DD perhaps once a month , which is fine .As long as they keep
in touch I don't expect them to live in my pocket , but my GD is another matter .
We bought chalks today and decorated my patio with patterns , she melts my heart ....<3

Pen, what a sweet comment, thank you.
KG

KG, I have also had to make that difficult decision and do not feel in any way inclined to revisit that pain.  I so appreciate your posts. 


Love and hugs to all.

Mary-Ann, I am so sorry you are going through this heart ache.  It never ceases to amaze me how many of us experience this pain with our children.  But the women here are full of wisdom and comfort, it will help.

All I can offer is that prayer and time have helped me somewhat.  I am still shattered that my son has totally excluded me from his life for no discernible reason.  And my three other three children are not too much better.  I have many low moments, but reading these pages, praying and staying close to my friends is very validating.  I know that dwelling on the situation is particularly bad for me specifically.  Practicing letting go makes me feel more at peace, although it is hard to get there.

Do you have a third party you can talk to, someone who isn't involved?  My therapist helps me keep things in perspective and she is neutral, so her feedback means a lot to me.  She is as mystified as I am by his behavior and that is reassuring.

I hope you do what is best for you over these next weeks and try to detach from your son's anger.  It sounds like he just needs to get it out of his system and he picked this emotionally loaded time to do it.  I am so sorry and send many good and healing thoughts your way.

I agree with City-Girl about finding outside support to get through the toughest times.  It makes me mad that  mothers are receiving hurtful messages from family.  After all, gratitude goes a long way to getting through life better and why make it harder on anyone? How can our DS/DD lose sight of the big picture?  The past is the past after all - for crying outloud.  No one is perfect and we all make mistakes as parents.  We were not alone in our history together either, circumstances, situations were created and we all had to figure out a way to deal with it as a family - so how can they feel blameless or so innocent?  Kids are kids and not too many grow up without making mistakes.  I think forgiveness and moving on is the name of the game at all times.  If we keep getting stuck in grudges than we are going to just feel miserable.  Hope they get a clue before the wedding.  It kinda reminds me of suicide like cutting off your nose to spite yourself, as some big message of being angry at your parents and the world, because you have been done wrong (what if they are wrong? have the DS/DD ever thought of that?  And what happens when they look back and see that possibly they played a part, and then have regrets?)  I think you don't have to make this better for them in anyway--- sorry they feel the way they do, and they will regret not including you in their wedding.  I would make an attempt to open up the conversation only after you have counseling.  I would listen to DS complaints and reflect back that you understand how he feels, or whatever the problem is, and then you will have to respect his decision.  But it is his decision, and not your fault for not having tried to figure it out with him.  Sorry just kinda got angry that mothers are getting hurt so bad - and don't deserve it.  Keep on hoping for the light of wisdom to happen.  There is still time.     

Smiles, as much as I would be thrilled if my son called me or spoke to me again, anger is a large part of what I am feeling too.  I am working on not letting it consume me, but it is a natural response to this irrational and truly cruel treatment.  I mean, what healthy 34 year old professional chooses to not speak to his mother and offer no explanation?!  How can that be construed as acceptable behavior?!  I am approachable, we had what I thought was a good relationship and this is how he treats me?!  Instead of explaining what is wrong and giving us a chance to work it out.   Especially now, when I need him more than ever in my life.  My MS gets worse every week.  I am so, so sick.  It kills me to think of the time we are wasting.

So yes, I am sad and miss him terribly but I am also angry that he is being so selfish.  He was loved and cherished from the minute he was known about, even before he was born.  If his life wasn't perfect, well, nobody's is.  Grow up.

I look at his baby pictures and wedding pictures from only three years ago and I still can't believe it.  That was such a happy day, I never saw this coming.  I have to say, I am really having a hard day today.  :(

City Girl, take care of your MS, if it is getting worse, it might be from stress.

I would put those photographs in a drawer for a while, they will just bring more gried, is there someone else who can help you with your health?

We will never know exactly why out adult children do what they do, just that they have chosen to do it.  Don't keep looking for the wherefore or the why, you will never know, as so many of us who are in the same boat will spend time and energy wondering about the cause as if knowing that could change the effect.

He is being selfish, you are right and that's his right, sadly, his right to live his life in a self-absorbed fashion.  It's so very disappointing to think of the decades of devotion that is now being reciprocated with the "cold shoulder".   

You have rights too.  You have the right to a happy life without someone whose emotional cruelty plays upon your vulnerability from a cruel disease.  You have the fight to not "beat yourself up" about how his relationship turned out with you because of anything you might have done along the way.  You are absolutely right, no one's life is perfect, we all have our struggles, but somehow many of our adult "children" seem to think they shouldn't have a life that is absolutely anything that what they want, exactly and precisely as they want it, and if it means their parents will pay for it, many of them seem to feel that is just fine. 

I think you are sad because you are going through what I went through, the loss of the relationship with the person that you had for so many years and in my case, the loss of the expectation of the relationship I would have with him for the next however many years until I leave the planet.   There's a lot  to be angry and sad about, but don't let it affect your own health, that's Priority #1 (IMHO).

Keys, you are right, I am wallowing and it is not healthy.  It has been an awful month.  My mother died three weeks ago and and my other children have also been behaving in very disappointing ways.   My youngest has been sweet, but she lives half way across the country from me.

My oldest, the one who is not speaking to me, and his wife are expecting.  I have been 'allowed' to know about the baby and even to make things for it (they are choosing not to know the gender).  I have made two quilts and the one I am working on now is an Irish chain pattern in yellow gingham with red gingham and red and yellow calico accents, trimmed with a white eyelet ruffle.  It is coming out so pretty, but full of reminders.   My late husband and I  (we were SO young!!  I was SO happy about my baby boy!!) painted my son's room a bright yellow when he was a baby, with red accents.  His bassinet had a yellow gingham skirt.  I still have it, along with the sweater and hat I brought him home from the hospital in.  So I am just flooded with memories right now.

I have no doubt that stress is making the MS worse.  I am out of work and close to losing my house.  I have no one to help me, even though my daughter and her boyfriend live with me, they do very little around the house.  And they act very resentful when I ask for something.  I can't do stairs anymore, I need her to do my laundry, but I have to ask over and over.   And that is really all I ask her to do for me.   It is so hurtful to feel like such a burden.

So things are just as bad as they could be and I am just trying to keep my head above water.  It is very, very hard.  But you are right, I need to keep the focus on myself and stay as healthy as possible. 

CityGirl, I'm so sorry to hear about your mother.  I wouldn't use the word wallowing that's pretty strong, but I was thinking more along the lines of allergies and staying away from allergens.

We have highjacked this thread a bit, so I'll set up another one.  I'll call it "Stress Busters".  Meet you there.

Mary Ann, I'm so sorry you are going through this. I wouldn't beat yourself up over asking if your step daughter could come to the wedding, because technically that is your son's step sister. He does have other children there and why not his step sister? I have a feeling your son was looking for any reason to blow up at you. Weddings are stressful and I wonder how much of this is only for you and how much of this is his worrying about how to have a marriage, when things didn't go right for his own parents. Is he getting wedding jitters and you are a target?

It's so easy to blame parents for everything, because you don't have to look at yourself and find fault. I'd call him up and say you are coming to the wedding, sans stepdaughter and if he doesn't want to talk to you after that fine, but he'll look cruel if his own mother isn't there. I'd ask for a peace treaty for one day and hold your head up and go. Make your son realize he will look bad in the eyes of others if his own mother isn't there. He doesn't see that he'll look mean.

After that, you'll have to take things one day at a time and not let him blame you for his father's past. He can't accept he had a flawed father and until he does, he won't grow up and move on. I think there is more to this than you think. It's so easy to blame the parent who is alive. So many children do that. They blame the parent who is alive, because they can't take their anger out on the one who isn't. He can't accept his father had an addiction and perhaps he is afraid of becoming him, as his wedding approaches. It's all subconscious of course.

I'd say this to your son... I will not bring my step daughter. I understand you don't want that, but for one day, we should have a truce. It doesn't look good for you to exclude me from your wedding, no matter how you are feeling right now. After your wedding, you can do what you like, etc.  After a few months, I'd write him a letter and say... Remember, it's easy to blame a parent who is still living, than one that is not. I'm sorry your father did not live up to your exceptions, nor I. I was young, but I don't regret having you in my life.

These are only my suggestions and I don't know if they will work in your situation. I'd hold my head up and make him realize that a one day truce will make him not look bad. He will look bad to her relatives. Very bad and he doesn't realize this. He also needs to learn that you won't accept blame for his father messing up. No one gets to have a perfect life and he needs to be reminded of that. He won't make the same mistakes his parents made when he has children... he'll make other ones. Good luck and if you are truly uninvited, stop paying out any more money for the wedding. Good luck and I'm sorry he did that. His anger is misplaced perhaps.

dear, dear City girl...I wish I could be there to help you myself, I really mean that.  This afternoon I cleaned my head off for an acquaintance who's having surgery this week and her ds is coming in.  I thought of the fact that I can't prepare a room for my own ds, so I made that a special experience for me, living vicariously through her experience.  I am so sorry for the struggle you're having.  I hope you will find a way to reach out to others near you, beyond your own immediate family, sorry to say but at times they offer the least help and encouragement.  We are here for you with love and thoughts.

I thought Sunshine's input was interesting, there are two points of view and I don't know which is right.  It would depend on the particular person.  Is it only recently that he has become vindictive like this?  do you feel a window still remains open to bring this back to the negotiating table?   Would you really want to go to the wedding under these circumstances, i.e. which would be more stressful, going or not going?  Mary Ann I do think that it is a real tragedy, and if your son does not choose to eat crow and reinvite you, he'll regret this decision for years to come.  I grieve for you.

When I was very young, I thought children arrived on the planet as blank slates.  My first marriage and father of children, was a very troubled individual with a horrific family tree.  No one ever taught me any better, and I was a young teen.  I have since learned that personality and characteristics are very much inherited and some children wreak havoc.    At some point you just have to accept and ..well just accept. 

SO sorry for the whine-jack Mary-Ann!! 

I have to say, I love the idea of asking for a one day truce.  It gives him a chance to be 'the bigger person' (even though we know it really is you! :)) and it gives you a chance to enjoy the day.  And it might break the ice. 

Oh, I wish you so much luck!

All you ladies are amazing. I am overwhelmed reading your stories and your kind advice. Thank you Pooh, Smilesback@u, Doe, CityGirl, SunShine, Pam1, KeysGirl, Sesamejane, Ruth, LancasterLady, Pen, BlueEyes, Begonie, and Luise. I hope I didn't miss anyone. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my situation.

I took the weekend to step back and try to process all that has been going on in the past weeks. I go from hurt to anger to disbelief and back again. Right know I am frozen I do not know what to do. Like everything else with my ds I will be judge by my action. I ask the same question LancasterLady .. Why is that I can forgive my ds for everything, and he can forgive me for nothing. 

My ds and I went for counseling together when he was 17. I thought at that time we had worked out most of the issues of his childhood. I agree KeysGirl I think that our sons need counseling on their own. I attended a woman's group about two years ago that helped me deal with my dysfunctional childhood. I never played the blame game with my parents but I had never dealt with feeling and issues I had buried deep inside. I guess it is true dysfunction breed dysfunction. I though by be nothing like my mother would insure my children would have a better life.

Yes LancasterLady, I have always felt that my ds wished he had a different mother. Small things like not accepting my family request on fb that would allow me to list him as my son. My youngest ds had no issues with it. My ds would complain to my bf that I would tell him that I loved him too much. He told me I was only permitted to tell him I love him once in a conversation and he would respond, if I said I love you more that once then he would not say I love you back. I know that may all sounds silly but it was like he had guide on how I could show him affection.   

Dear SunShine the offer of a truce is a good idea. I am not sure if I have the strength or courage to do it. It is pretty clear now that my sd, dh or mil will not be attending the wedding. My ds has not only hurt me by this out bust of anger, he has hurt them as well. He has made it clear that he does not consider them a part of his family. I can not ask my dh to attend. I know he would if I asked him but why should he go somewhere he is not wanted. Right now that is the way I feel too, why go if I am not wanted. Maybe that is selfish, maybe I will regret this like many other decisions I have made. Maybe tomorrow I may feel differently.

I do have good people in my life. my youngest ds doesn't feel the same way towards me, he doesn't see things the same way my ds does. My dh is an amazing man and he loves me very much. My bf of the past 20+ has been through so many things with me, and is always there to offer her support. My mil is an amazing woman...she is sending my ds and dil a card to tell them that she is no longer attending their wedding and this is she a piece of what she wrote them:

I am so sorry that all of this has come up now, on one of the most important days of your lives.
I have held your mom while she has cried over this..  I too have made lots of mistakes in my life (also coming from a disfunctional family - knowing only the abnormal/normal).  If I could do it over, knowing what I know now - my choices would be much different.  Fortunately my kids and God have forgiven me for my wrong doings and mistakes.
I am praying that you also will find it in your hearts to forgive and make a new life for yourselves filled with love and peace.  Forgiving each other for the many mistakes you are bound to make.  Years from now, you also will look back and wish you could do things over.
Praying for you both.     

I hope with this card, and my youngest ds coming home next week for the wedding..... and a little time and maybe my ds will reach out to me. 

Sending Love back to you all!!       

             

Mary-Ann, you sound strong and like you have a good support system.  I know you are going to be ok, even within the hurt.  I am praying for continued peace for you in the situation.

Your post brings up another good point - this behavior doesn't occur in a vacuum.  They effect so many others, and cause even more hard feelings and pain, like ripples in a pond.  Such a shame.  :(

Mary-Ann you sound grateful and that will bring you peace. 

Mary-Ann, something you wrote really raised a red flag for me.  You said that you were only allowed to say "I love you" once per conversation.  Before that, how many times were you saying it?

Because, from my point of view, if someone kept saying "I love you", it would say to me that the person was just saying it, to hear it back and that would make it meaningless to me.  And then it would become annoying, and eventually I would get angry about it.

Also, I hate to say it, but etiquette says that if a name isn't on the invitation, then that person is not invited.  I don't think you were wrong to ask about your SD, but MAN! some wires must have gotten crossed somewhere because un-inviting you is Over The Top!

And it's actually common for the only kids invited to be the ones who are IN the wedding party.

That being said, it sounds to me like you and DS have a communication problem.  It sounds like he may be letting you know 'things' in entirely TOO subtle a way (if at all), such that, when he's had enough, he blows his top.  But it sounds like you're not listening to his communications either.  After the 2nd or 3rd time you said "I love you", did he say "M-o-o-o-o-m!" or did he respond very flatly, or did he actually say "Oh, I love you too!" each time?  Because, the first 2 would be his subtle way of saying he'd had enough.

THAT being said, did he actually say to you "I don't want you to come to my wedding!" or did he say "Fine then, if you're going to be like this, don't come!"  Because, there's a fine line there too.  The first one was a sincere dis-invitation.  The second one was a "I've had enough with this argument, if you can't respect our boundary of no kids, then don't come."  Which means, that if you leave your SD with a babysitter, AND you leave the issue at home, then you're still welcome to come to the wedding.

Can you imagine?  What if he didn't MEAN it as an UN-invitation and you, DH and MIL don't show up.  Then he'll be embarrassed and angry.  During the reception, he's not going to say "I dis-invited my Mom", he's going to say "She wouldn't accept that we wanted 'no kids', and now, she just didn't show up, I don't know where she is."

I really hope you guys can work this out before the wedding, because if you don't go to the wedding, you may find that you're not welcome during their marriage either.

I'm so glad to hear you have such a great support system. I think what your MIL did was outstanding. I had a really great MIL also. Perhaps her wisdom will sink into your DS's head. You are sounding better and you have to do what you feel comfortable with. If not going to the wedding makes you feel more comfortable, then don't go. Perhaps that is the best answer for you. It's nice that the others will stand by you. I still think your DS's issues have more to do with him than you, but that is just my humble opinion. He also sounds a tad jealous of your new family. I wanted to mention jealousy in my last post. Is he jealous of your marriage and new extended family? He does sound like he needs counseling and has some anger issues. Wishing you continued strength.

I think this will rough, but I don't mean that.  I'm typing this from a caring place but it's likely not going to translate via the keyboard.

I have to agree with Scoop - I think hearing "I love you" over and over and over could be a little trying for anyone.  He doesn't seem to respond to tears, so I would move away from letting him know that you are crying a lot.   And I would stop trying to make amends.

How about just treating him like you do any other adult that you care about? Cultivate some generalized respect for him as a person and leave the "Mom" stuff behind.    Maybe it's time to get a message to him saying that you would love to share his wedding, but will respect his choice to not have you there.  But you'll have to believe that yourself.  And make sure it's not tear-stained!   ;)

For what it's worth, I would let the DIL family know that that same thing - that things aren't going well at this time and that DS has asked you not to go and that you respect his decision.   And that hopefully things will smooth out in the future and you will be able to get to know this new part of your family.

I really know what you're going through , if I hadn't made peace with my DIL , I wasn't going to the wedding either , nor
were any of my family .
However knowing how hurt my Ds would have been without any family there , I am so  glad a truce was made .
If you really want to go to his wedding and I suspect you do , why not contact him , and ask him would he like you to be there .
Listen , I was brought into my sons wedding at the 7th hour too , consequently my our side was thin on the ground .
I wasn't asked if I would like to invite anyone .
It was basically a bride's wedding ....full stop !
All my family felt if we were there for convenience , I think a lot of groom's families think the same .
We have to go with the flow and if they have a no children policy you have to abide with their wishes .
I still think he would like his Mom to be there , and perhaps a last minute talk might solve things .
I hope you can be reunited before the big day , once its over , it's too late to turn back the clock .

Hurtful things are said in heated arguments , not always meaningful , and actions speak louder than words .
Make the first move , I would hate you to have got it all wrong .
good Luck  :)

good thoughts...   Have your MOG dress pressed and on the back of the closet door, you DO have it don't you?  With the dyed to match shoes?   Maybe just tell your son, 'sorry, my bad', and ask him if you can't just rewind.  Maybe a little humor would diffuse this situation and you could get back in the saddle.  It isn't going to be smooth, I learn that anew every day, life isn't going to be smooth and if we wait for it to be so before we can roll with it, we'll wait forever. 

I have the mog dress and the shoes. I would be ready to go in a heart beat if he wants me there.

Thank you Doe and Scoop for the advice on saying I love you too much. Telling the people in my life that I love them is something I do on a regular basis. Maybe I say it too much, but it is something that I never heard much as a child. Maybe I just want to hear it back, but it is never meaning less. I always felt like I was walking on eggshells with my ds, I just wanted him to know that I loved him. I don't think he believed it. It was more of a joke when he said it originally, but I thought who wouldn't want to hear it. I did respect what he wanted, and stopped saying it to him as much. 

I am pretty sure that I am not missunderstanding the way my ds feels. He said he want nothing to do with with me. That this last situation is the straw that broke the camels back. He can tolerat me no longer. He also said that I am not treating him like an adult. I don't respect him. I know now that I should of never asked him to allow my ds to be invited to the church.   

Quote from: Mary-Ann on September 26, 2011, 04:32:48 PM
He also said that I am not treating him like an adult. I don't respect him.

Bingo!

Mary-Ann, you know whether your motives were to poke at DS at anytime.  I would make the gesture to DS and ask for forgiveness as you now realize things from his POV (and you quietly let go of expectations on him).  It is up to him now to choose to act like an adult and forgive his DM - he probably will.  I think it is between you and him now to grow from this.  You will feel better to forgive yourself and DS no matter what happens.  good luck dear heart.

Quote from: Doe on September 26, 2011, 04:36:18 PM

Quote from: Mary-Ann on September 26, 2011, 04:32:48 PM
He also said that I am not treating him like an adult. I don't respect him.

Bingo!

Bing! Is cold consolation. I am sure I am not the only parent that been told by their AC that they are not being treated like an adult, and they are not being respected.

I am judged by my ds for everything I do, and say. I am not respect by my son. But as the DM I am always expected to eat crow?

I don't know if any of you have ever heard of a woman's bill of rights, but here is a few lines from it.

I have the right to be me.
I have the right to put myself first.
I have the right to love and be love.
I have the right to be treated with respect.
I have the right to be human-NOT PERFECT.
I have the right to my own opinions, to express them, and to be taken seriously.
I have the right to grow and change (and that includes changing my mind).
I have the right to make mistakes.
I have the right Not to be responsible for other adults problems.
I have the right not to be like by everyone.

I wonder if this bill of rights applies to mothers too? I hope it does.
 

Mary-Ann, if you are ready to go is/as/and when things are resolved so you are welcome to attend the wedding, you'll have your bases covered.

I think this whole issue of asking him to including a step-sister in the wedding being responsible for him saying that he wants nothing more to do with you is a bit over the top, if that was a convenient excuse to get mad at you, it's not like you asked him to include the High Wizard of the KKK or Bernie Madoff, the old saying used to be "The More, The Merrier".  How disappointing to have a son who doesn't want to include a younger half sibling in a "joyful celebration.

I don't like the fact that you felt like you were walking on eggshells around him, that to me is indicative that you are afraid of upsetting him in some way.   "He can tolerate you no longer?".........that's a clear cut message to me, and very patronizing.  It's hard to think of a more hurtful thing to say to your mother as your wedding approaches.  I can only offer your a cyber shoulder to cry on and tell you that it's a nasty path to be forced down.  This is emotional blackmail as far as I am concerned, and it's cruel and malicious.  Thank God he's not picking your nursing home and just because he's accusing you of something, doesn't make it so, he could be "projecting".

Mary-Ann, of course, the bill of rights is for mothers too, but we have to stand up for the rights we are due and refuse to be manipulated out of them by people that we once would have thrown ourselves in front of a bus for when they were toddlers.

I utterly agree on a Mother's Bill of Rights.  We are talking about adults here and there has to be some give.  It is like they have all the expectations of respect but don't want to give it back.  A healthy relationship is a two way street, with open communication, not ultimatums and tantrums.

Sigh.  In a perfect world...

Even if we have rights, or desire an adult relationship, we can't change another person. If we have a DIL or DS or DD who refuses to grant us access, we're simply out of luck. Time to rewrite the will, take that cruise, sign up for those classes, give our love to appreciative people, and practice loving detachment towards the AC who are behaving badly.

and our mothering days are over...

I agree - time to detach

Lots of good posts and wise words here ...... we do learn a lot from others experiences .Another gem  from WWU ....      Where are you Luise ? Hope you are ok ........missing you . :(

Mary-Ann, you will know in your heart of hearts that you are always loved.  And that love is a powerful healer, no matter what happens.  You will get through this tough spot with support here.  sending love...

I am sorry for what you're going through.   Someone asked earlier about how you knew DH did not want you at the wedding. I was also wondering if it was something DS directly said.  If it was something that was mentioned as a possibility ("then you don't have to come"). Or something inferred, since he hasn't apologized since his last angry blame session.

You, DH, SD, and MIL are not going.  You and DH were orginally invited, and then...DS disinvited you?  Your young SD was not  invited at all, because she is 7 and children besides those in the wedding party were not invited.  Your MIL was originally invited?  She wrote a letter to DS, but I was not clear if DS disinvited her? Did your MIL change her mind about attending because you were disinvited? Is MIL not going because SD was not invited?

Do you think DS got the impression that you or DH didn't want to go his wedding if SD was not to be included? 

When you asked DS if SD could attend, I don't picture it as a short yes-or-no question.  I envision a more long drawn out, easy to try to push past his no, since it didn't make sense.  It was pointed out to DS that he was a hoot as a 2 1/2 year old ring bearer at your wedding.  I imagine that was pointed out after he already said no.   

Have they been told that you've withdrawn financial support?  Were they told that right away as part of the not attending so not paying conversation? Were they told later?

I'm sorry for asking so many questions, they are what I am wondering, not what I'm asking you to answer.  If there was a break with each other in commmunicating intention, I would hate for that be the only reason you don't attend.

Prior to DS' outburst, would you and DH be happy attending without SD?  Is the omission of SD something that would have cast a pall on the day. Or caused trouble with your DH?  I wonder if DS could sense that, was aware of how important it was for you for SD to be included.

I am wondering if DS feels that your financial support, and moral support of that side of family (DH, MIL) was contigent on SD being invited.  Not that you meant it that way (Although I don't know why MIL's not going).  What a shame if his perceptions told him that was the deal, and if he felt that way.   If he mistook your caring for pressure.  Perhaps what he heard when he was not having his "no" accepted (which again, I don't know for certain his no wasn't immediately accepted) to SD's being invited, was a pressure for him to consider greater reasons (the contigencies, real or imagined).   Perhaps DS felt, in his own mind, during this period of stress and change and doubt and fear for him, that the message he was getting was: "invite SD..or else".   

He did have a strong reaction to a request.  If the request crossed over to something he perceived as pressure with a veiled threat, that can and does push people's buttons.  If that's where things went fuzzy (intentions misunderstood) perhaps there's a way to make clear before the wedding, that was not and is the case.

Sassy:  My hat is off to you for clarifying all these roles....way to go.  I want you as my friend to help me untangle things if I get snarled up.  :o I had wondered about some of these things but just didn't know where to start.  Thanks for your very thorough reading and restating. 

Good luck Mary Ann...hope the waters will be smoother soon.

Hi Sassy,

I will try to answer your questions.

My dh is perfectly fine with me going to my ds wedding. My dh is a kind man and would in no way stop me from going or try to convince me not go. My dh is not interested in going now that all this has happened. He is hurt by my ds and dil actions. I will try to give you more of the back story.

Life between my husband, son, daughter in law, her family, my stepdaughter, and mother in law were going great before all of this. We were all together last Christmas, Easter, Mothers Day, and many other things in between. My ds and dil just moved into their first apartment last month. My dh and I helped paint and gave them house warming gifts. We set them up with satellite TV/receiver and put them on our account so they would not have a monthly bill. We were also talking about the wedding, discussing plans and laying out who would pay for what. But one thing we never talked about was sd. My dil wanted my dh suite to match the wedding parties so he would not sick out in family photos. As I said before my dh was getting them a luxury car to drive on there wedding day. Buy all accounts we were a family, doing family things, helping plan a family wedding. My mil was invited to the wedding and the wedding shower.

Dh and I realized that we needed to start making plans for sd on the day of the wedding, what she would wear, and when we would return her to her mother. I was talking to my ds on the phone and told him we were going to bring sd to the church. He stuttered and then said no with my dil in the back ground saying NO KIDS!. I was in shock, I said fine but he knew I was upset. He came over to my house later that night, and I told him I was not happy about them saying no. I told him that she is not just any kid. All we wanted was to bring her to the church, maybe have her included in some family photos. And yes, I said that dh and I are helping pay for of some of the things in the wedding. I said we are family. The reason my ds and dil did not want kids at their wedding was because dil's aunt has foster children and they did not want these children at the wedding. My ds said yes that night, said he would deal with dil. That is when the shtf!!

Next morning (it was a Friday) while I am at work I get a six part text from my ds saying how dare I put him in this situation. I made him caved-in the night before. I care more about my dh and sd than I do about him, and his feeling. I ruined the weekend away that he and dil had planned. I knew there was no kid, and I should of never asked. My response at first was WOW, then I said sorry to be such a disappointment and have a good weekend. He came back with don't call me and dh is not my father and sd is not his sister. Also I was trying to ruin his wedding. I came back with why he had to be so mean and nasty. Family did not mean anything to him. That is was his wedding and his choice. I was sorry I even asked.

Over the weekend dh and I talked about how were we going to handle this. Dh was taking it personal and I completely understand why he would. There are people that are going to say that we should just accept that there are no kids at the wedding and just shut up and go. But my ds and dil were making it personal. They could of been a little more respectful. We were just hoping that they would change their mind. We hoped that they would realizes that our request to have sd included was not unreasonable. I figured at that point the worst that would happen if they didn't change their mind is that I would go to the wedding by myself. 

Monday afternoon my dh and I came home for lunch to find the satellite system and the satellite dish sitting on our dinning room table with the house key that my ds had. Dh and I were again shock. I sent my ds and dil a text that evening asking what returning the equipment meant? The next day I received an email from my ds full of hate. Fifteen years worth of hate. I would post it here for you to read but that would require me telling you my whole life story. Reading the email it was clear to me he wants nothing to do with me. I felt like he threw the kitchen sink at me. To add to this insanity my dil deleted and blocked me and my dh from fb.

My mil is not going to the wedding because it was made clear that her son and granddaughter means nothing to the bride and groom. Mil sent the note to kindly explain that to them, but I am sure they weren't expecting her to attend at this point.

My best friends of 20+ years knows all my history. Both her adult children are standing in my ds wedding. She sat down and talked with my ds a couple of days ago. She tried to explain I did what I had to do 15 years ago, that I did the best I could raising him. She said that my son was cold and he made it clear that he did not want me there. I didn't not want to hear anymore.

I am sick over this. I asked my bf if we could stop talking about the wedding. I am hurt and angry that I mean so little to my ds. That my relationship with my ds was so fragile that this situation would drive it over the edge. At this point I will only go to the wedding if he says he wants me to. But I don't see that happening. I can't keep apologizing to him.       

Maybe my ds and dil are trying to justify their No and want to make sure that they don't look like the bad guy when people ask where I am and why I am not at the wedding. The people that matter to me will know why I am not there.       

               




                 

Wow.  So what are you going to do on the wedding day?  Have you considered a getaway for you and your family?

Hi maryann........I can't understand how your DS would accept your DH but not his daughter. I hope he really misses you on the day and realises what he's done . He seems to be highly influenced by his future wife as my DS was. Make sure you are far away on the day and do something wonderful . It's better.than sitting at home wondering what's happening. Thinking of you ......LL

Weddings seem to bring out the worst in people.  Maybe with a little space he will come around.  How far off is it?

Is this the hill you want to die on?  I think you were wrong, not so much for asking, but yes for asking because they had said no children, and that settles it.   But your apology was no apology.  I think you dropped the ball badly.  As parents, we then always play the trump card....after all I've done for you, blah blah.   This field has been covered extensively on this website MaryAnn, I think you should give your son a sincere apology without reminding him all you and dh have done for him,  I personally would not have done those things.  Young couples need to learn to pay their own bills up front and establish independence.  I think they feel uncomfortable deep down inside with their parents still picking up the tab, and it breeds resentment.   As I've said before here, I'd eat crow many times in order to have loving relationships with my family.  You need to sit down with him if he's willing and take his hands in yours, and tell him you are sorry that you didn't hear him.  That could be a start.  Also if the MIL is his grandmother, shame on her because she doesn't have a dog in this fight, and should be at her g/s wedding, this is only adding fuel to the fire. 

One thing though, it isn't a bad thing necessarily that he took the time to write you a long letter saying what he was angry and hurt about.  I would trade places with you  as my ds will not reduce himself to 'tell me what's wrong'.   There is always hope there if a/c takes time to address their issues with you.  But I think he was hurt and angry more than anything about your 'apology'.    I'm not saying any of this to be hurtful, but this is a place about honesty and about coming to terms with the truth about ourselves and our a/c.  Its only my opinion however.

Yeah, I think the situation could have been saved at the 'no children' point, too.  Insisting on having the daughter there was your statement that she is more important than his plans for his wedding day.

If they are getting married in a church, you didn't need his permission to brind SD along.  Perfect strangers can sit in the pews and the bride/groom has no authority to evict them.  At least at Catholic churches. 

Not that that is the issue.  Sounds like your DS has some serious issues and attending or not attending the wedding won't solve them.  As hard as it is, I would try to forget about the wedding and try to come up with a plan of action to heal the relationship.  If he won't go to counseling with you, find a counselor on your own and learn how to deal with his issues so they don't become yours.

Good luck.

I think bringing SD along to the ceremony (even if they can) would just cause more problems than it's worth. 

You know, DS is quite a bit older than SD.  He probably really doesn't feel as if they are siblings at all.  I have a lot of younger siblings (a mix of step/half/adopted) in a stepfamily situation but I've known them since they were tots.  I do take an interest in them but if I'm pressed on it, no it's not quite the same sibling relationship as the ones closer to my age.  It's more like an aunt relationship.  And most of it is my work, I take them places, take them on vacation with us etc.  They are more like cousins to DD since they are close in age.

Not that DS is wrong for not taking an interest in SD, just different.  It does sound like there is some pressure there on him to consider SD a sibling.  I think that would be frustrating for someone who just doesn't feel that way. 

And as weddings are a high stress time, it's probably the last thing he wants to deal with then. 

I agree that after asking if SD could come (and I still think it was ok to ask even if you knew there was no kids because of her being his SS) should have been the end of it after he and DIL said no.  Asking him again, trying to plead your case and putting pressure on him when he was by himself, was probably very hard on him.  It really did put him in the middle of you and his future wife.  I can see where she was probably upset when he got home and felt ambushed since they had been agreeing about it and now after visiting you, he changed his mind. 

Now, that's where I end with my critique.  I still think with how volatile he reacted, the long email and the way he handled everything, if it wouldn't have been this....it would have been something else that he exploded over.  It sounds like he has anger issues he hasn't dealt with and been carrying around and he picked this item to be the fuse to the bomb. 

I do want to add something about the MIL.  At first, I was thinking the same way as Ruth, that MIL shouldn't be boycotting it.  But then, I placed myself in her position and can understand better.

I have a SD.  I have always treated her just like one of my kids.  I accept her has my daughter, just as much as if she was mine.  If she was getting married and told me that my YS wasn't welcome because he wasn't her real brother, I would be very hurt as well by that statement. 

I'm just using that as an example because my SD and YS get along very well and love to aggravate each other.  Since she has not been speaking to me and DH, she still texts my YS.  I know they are closer in age and there is different dynamics involved here, but I wanted to try to place myself in her position.   Mary-Ann's MIL has accepted Mary-Ann's DS as her grandson but yet he is rejecting her biological Son and GD.  I can see where that would cause some hurt feelings in MIL's world.

I don't know, Pooh.  I think if GMIL had fully accepted him, she would understand and be more supportive of his choice to have a no kid wedding.  My thoughts are by  her boycotting, GMIL really is putting it out there that he is not family.  Because really, no kid weddings aren't unheard of.  And SD is a kid.

There probably is a lot of pressure to get along as a nuclear family does, that is very common in stepfamilies.  I think the added stress of DS being an adult and getting married is very hard on him as well, as trying to blend into a family.  And I think it is common for stepfamilies to fall into the trap of thinking everyone should want what they want.  It is very possible DS isn't interested in a close relationship with SD or GMIL and the pressure being put on him to consider them as family may be too much.

Even in normal times, it is hard to blend and hard for adult children.  I can't imagine it is very easy to do it in the midst of a wedding.  Its kind of impractical b/c the effort it takes to blend will overshadow the effort it takes to figure out his marriage.  The guy is under a lot of stress

I agree.  I wasn't basing that on the "no kid" wedding but on Mary-Ann's earlier statement that DS has made it clear that he doesn't consider DH and SD family.

MIL could be supportive of his decision, but I can still see where that is hurtful to her.

I see what you're saying but I think DS perspective is probably different.  It's not uncommon to have a no kid wedding and so I think a normal person would assume that people will not find it upsetting.  But in his mothers blended family they do, I think to *him* it comes across as SD is more important than his wedding.  Which is a pretty hurtful message. 

If GMIL boycotts all no kid weddings, ok fine.  But I doubt it is the case. 

I believe it is really almost never productive to send a 'possy' to speak on our behalf, that probably kept ramping up the animosity on ds's part.  I'm not defending ds's actions, but what's the good of proving yourself right at such a high expense?  Still not having read his letter its impossible to make much of a call it seems to me.  This does remind me a lot of my own ds, as he would lash out with something he knew would prick my heart, regardless of whether or not it was a real issue with him. 

Oh I totally agree.  I think DS's perspective is exactly those things.  1.  They said no-kid wedding.  2.  He doesn't consider SD his sister (age difference or whatever reason) so it's not important to him to have her there, it's only important to Mary-Ann, DH and MIL.  3.  By pushing the issue, it does send a message that they are disregarding his feelings.

I think just as we agree that DS has a right to feel that way, MIL and DH have a right to their feelings too and not want to go because they could be seeing it that he is sending a message to them that is also hurtful. 

Sounds like a lot of hurt feelings on both sides.  I have been a stepmother; I know what conflict is like in a blended family.  Uffda. 

I don't understand why it was such an issue for SD to come to the wedding. Kids generally don't care about this stuff at that age so it has to be that you and DH wanted her there for whatever reason.  Your DS is trying to establish a marriage where he no longer listens to his mother but to his wife's wishes.  It was difficult for my son and for me to separate, but he has to live with his wife 24/7.  On the other hand my DS and DIL did not invite DIL's F to the wedding because they knew he would be drunk.  So there are reasons people plan the way they do and I can see your FDIL's point that if one child comes that would put her in a bad position with others. 

Send a big bouquet of flowers with a sincere card that says you thought about it, want to say you are sorry and you wish them a stress-free wedding.  Stop the bleeding and let the wound heal.  At this point the relationship is way more important than if you go to the wedding.  Set the day aside for sending some balloons skyward with your prayers for the couple.  Just my thoughts.  A circle of love out to you and your family...this is such hard stuff to go through. Peace to all. 

That's what I think too Begonia....hurt feelings on both sides of this one.

Quote from: Pooh on September 29, 2011, 09:31:03 AM
Oh I totally agree.  I think DS's perspective is exactly those things.  1.  They said no-kid wedding.  2.  He doesn't consider SD his sister (age difference or whatever reason) so it's not important to him to have her there, it's only important to Mary-Ann, DH and MIL.  3.  By pushing the issue, it does send a message that they are disregarding his feelings.

I think just as we agree that DS has a right to feel that way, MIL and DH have a right to their feelings too and not want to go because they could be seeing it that he is sending a message to them that is also hurtful.

Oh sure, we're in agreement there.  I think everyone has a right to their feelings in this scenario.

However, IMO, it's unreasonable for anyone in this situation to boycott the weddings b/c their feelings are hurt.  I also think it is an overreaction and unreasonable to use their feelings in any other way, sometimes we all just gotta suck it up.  I don't expect anyone to manage my hurt feelings, its part of being an adult.

Like Begonia said, kids don't really care about this stuff.  I try to imagine DD caring and if she was hurt, IMO, it's up the parent to encourage their children to get over it. I do remember as a child not being able to go to adult only weddings and I can't for the life of me ever think of making it an issue, as a kid, I knew my place.  I think the adults in this situation fueled the fire and put a kid in the middle.  It is a parenting issue and one I don't agree with it, I think kids absolutely do have a right to their feelings and if SD is hurt, fine.  She also needs to learn how to get over things and not expect her feelings to be managed by anyone, something we all learned growing up. The wedding is simply not about her.

I can see the SD really wanting to go to the wedding.  My DD7 is still mad that she didn't get to come to our wedding (6 years before she was even born!).  She picked a wedding cake as her birthday cake last year (sadly, the one she picked fed 225 people and it was deemed 'too big'), so she could play with the "toy" at the top!

But I think it's not about SD at all.  I think it's about the Aunt w/ foster kids.  I can see that if one kid is permitted to come (other than the ones in the wedding party), the aunt would be upset that HER kids can't come.  And if she's the type of person to raise a stink over it, then I can see trying to head that off.  I can even see that maybe, after the initial conversation, if DIL told her DM, and the DM told the Aunt (because that would TOTALLY happen in my IL's family) then the Aunt & the DM have already started ragging on them over it.  I can hear it too "You're just discriminating against my kids because they're foster kids!"

Maryann thank you for your openness and honesty with what unfolded.  This story's sad irony is what fell apart from the idea of weddings bringing family together.  I'm sorry you're going through this.

You mentioned you can't keep apologizing to him.  I was wondering how some of the apologies went.

I'm thinking less along the lines of "I'm sorry I even asked".   DS wasn't asked, at first.  I'm thinking more to core of what caused the upset, "I'm sorry I asked you to go against what we both knew your wife expected,. I'm sorry I pressured you to the point you felt you had to cross your wife to ease the pressure. I wish I didn't do that and I wont do that again."

QuoteDh was taking it personal and I completely understand why he would.  There are people that are going to say that we should just accept that there are no kids at the wedding and just shut up and go.  But my ds and dil were making it personal.  They could of been a little more respectful.  We were just hoping that they would change their mind.

I can't tell if being respectful means change their mind.   I don't know if there was a way they could have maintained their no kids wedding and still be respectful.   I got the impression DS went to your house to explain about the "no"  because he knew you were upset by it. By coming over, I thought he was trying to be respectful and listen to your feelings, while also being respectful of the agreement he made with his wife. (He failed at the second part).

An attempt to turned their no into your yes, wound up putting DS yes against DIL's no.  Weeks before his wedding day.   Was it respectful when his devotion to family was questioned. He was told told family did not mean anything to him. He was reminded who was paying for some of this wedding.  Domination over him was temporarily established.  Money is power.  Mentioned at that time of a guest list power struggle, a no versus a yes.   Money for power wasn't worked out in advance, that contributing money gives an equal say to his future wife's, as who attends their wedding.  Terms were revealed after the offer was made and accepted.  As DS and DIL probably see it, that use of power over him, is what turned DS against his wife.   I imagine they returned the satellite box because of the newly disclosed terms, of money for some power and control over them.

I can see how he felt that being dominated, and pitted against his wife to fight for your will, was disrespectful.  He was not asked about SD coming, he was told.  Then he was told he was supposed to be a good little boy before being a good partner, and for a moment he believed it.  I really think if you approach DS with genuine regret, you can heal this.  And you can have an even better, truly respectful, relationship with them both going forward.  One where you won't have to pay their bills anymore, either!

Is this the hill you want to die on? ...hmmm.   

My sd has no idea that this controversy is going on. At the end of the day does she care, or will she get over it.... I am sure she will be just fine.   

I never asked my friend to intervene on my behalf. I had no idea she talked to my ds until she told me about it. Both our family are close so I do not see it being unreasonable for her to try to help this situation.   

I truly hope that none of you ladies are never in this situation. We can debate the kids-no kids issue for days. Everyone has an opinion including me. I feel that a wedding is about love, family and celebration. The more the merrier like one of you kind ladies mentioned. Exceptions can be made for immediate family. Please remember that I only wanted to bring her to the church. I guess I am the selfish one for wanting some of my family at the wedding. I am not looking at my sd as a kid I am looking at her as a member of my family. I guess I am not respecting my ds and dil feelings. It is their day they can be as cold and as selfish as they want too. Some of you ladies must come for a bigger or higher place than me. I was not going to take no for answer without at least pleading my case. I do not strategize my discussions with my children. I say what is on my mind.

This wedding is 90% her family and friends and 10% my son's family and friends. I did not hand my ds and dil a list of people they should invite to their wedding as some mothers do. My ds and dil did not invite my sister and her husband or adult nephews. They also did not invite an aunt of his father's side. I never said anything to them, even though I thought they should be invited. The only blood family I would of have had at that wedding was my two sons. My ds and dil do not care about the people that are important to me. I also really do not understand why anyone would think that my husband's mother should still attend the wedding. Is she expected to go on her own?

My ds and dil have no problem accepting help from their parents. Ds and dil were living in dil parent's basement rent-free for the past 5 years.  Also dil parents paid first and last months rent for them on the apartment they just moved into. My ds and dil are irresponsible with money. Dil did not want to be living at home after they got married but they could not even afford to move out. After living with her parents for 5 years, they managed to save nothing. Coach bags and designer clothing are what matters to them. They will not miss the little help my DH and I were offering them. I am sure dil daddy will pick up the tab.   

I agree there are hurt feelings on both sides. Even if I could get my ds to accept my apology, my vision of this wedding is pretty tarnished. I will be going on my own. This is the brides wedding. She will have her picture perfect wedding day with no crying babies and no laughing or playing children.  My vision of my son's wedding clearly does not matter to anyone here. However, what I wanted was to watch my son get married with my family beside me, for all of us to share in that joy. To have family photos taken with my children and dh. I looked at my son wedding as a join of two families.  Yes, I had my own agenda!

What will I do on the wedding day if I am not going? It will be the hardest day of my life. I can try to avoid it all I want but I know that is impossible. My ys will be home for the wedding. I live in a small city and would need to hide in my house for the next month to not be reminded somehow of the wedding. Co-workers ask and will ask about my sons wedding. Before this all happened I was happy, truly happy for the first time in my life.  I still have things to be thankful for and I will focus on that. I will have to learn manage my own hurt feelings.

Maryann...
I'm not blaming you.  I do think there is something that can be apologized for. I also think that the sooner it happens the sooner the apology can make a positive difference.  My fear is too much time can make this situation fester and become worse.  DS feels profoundly disrespected and it is my humble belief an acknowledgement and apology can heal (at least some of) that, and heal (some of the) resentment in the relationship.  Enough to get it back on track.

You come from a place you know in your heart was a good one.  That is, including SD as part of the family.  Maybe you also realized that DH and MIL would not want to go if SD was not invited.  I understand wanting SD to be there.  I understand that the "no kids" wedding was interpreted by DH as a hurtful message sent to exclude SD.   It wasn't wrong for you to want SD to go!   Maryann, I don't think it was the message "SD should be there" itself that caused the problems.  In my opinion, t was the way it was delivered, with insults, veiled threats and financial power plays.  I understand driven by passion and a sense of what's right. But the machiavellian approach, where the ends justifies the means (insulting DS and threatening DS financially, as seen for the ultimate good cause of protecting SD and DH's feelings of common law exclusion) , doesn't always work well in relationships.   And perhaps worst of all for DS's future relationship, as DIL may have perceived it, was that a woman was able to persuade her future DH to turn him against her.   About her wedding,  Weeks before her wedding.

Putting DIL's Aunt's foster children and DS's 7 year old common law stepsister under the same category, as "kids", was not meant as an insult.  Not to you or DH.  I think it was a decision to respect all children equally among both sides of the families.  And yes, to show respect to Aunt's foster children, so it was not that they were the only children not invited.  To be perfectly honest, I really don't think "no kids" was meant as personal against SD or DH at all. 

I wondered, maybe because SD is a common law step daughter, it was that made it much more personal for DH?  Perhaps because you and DH did not have a wedding, it became even more important  for you and DH to have SD acknowledged as "family" publicly in DS and DIL's wedding.  Documented in the church photographs as part of "family."  If SD was DS' full bio sister, would a no kids rule has been as personally offensive to you and DH?  Was there something about your family that DS was being asked to "prove" through the gesture of inviting SD, at the expense of conflict with his bride.

There is nothing wrong with your idea of a wedding being for families coming togther.  However, it's true that some people see a wedding signifies when the bride and groom go from boyfriend and girlfriend to start their own family unit.  Also it's traditionally when they make their first big decisions together, as a couple.  There's nothing wrong with that idea of what a wedding's supposed to be, either.   I think that was this couple's idea of their wedding, and I think that families coming together would be a great theme for your wedding.

The repeated idea of DS was supposed to wantfor his wedding to be about bringing families together prompts the question - "which" immediate family was supposed to be brought together, by including SD in DS' wedding, when it was against DS and DIL expressed wishes .   The groom and bride's new family?  Do you think it could it could look to DS and DIL that you were looking for DS' wedding to make a statement on behalf of bringing together your own family of DH and SD and also MIL.   Some people see a wedding signifies when the bride and groom go from boyfriend and girlfriend to start their own family unit.  Also when they make their first big decisions together, as a couple. 

Asking for a person to be invited, even though you're not "supposed to", is one thing.  In families, it might be unmannerly but I agree it isn't unreasonable. Asking is one thing.  A drama of phone calls and visits and high pressure persuasion (and letters from MILs and talks from BF mother of groomsmen) and DS leaving your home saying he's ready to deal with the fallout of selling DIL out....is another. When the answer was still no, resorting to using shame on DS and "divide and conquer" to a bride and groom... to help bring families together doesn't make sense to me. 

Shaming on DS, blaming him for your family's bad feelings (DH, SD, MIL, you), and bringing up the power of money contributed, could be seen as "dirty pool".  Below the belt.   It's sad DS took off is own gloves off after that, and hurt you in the only way he could muster up power from having being dominated.  He can't use money, but interestingly he also used shame and family blame as his weapons of "strength" over you.  You told him he let your family down, he then said no you let your family down. 

It's way easier to show respect for someone when you agree with each other.  It's hard when your goals are so different.  Your worst case scenario was that you would attend but SD wouldn't attend, and that was DS's best case scenario.  This was a tough situation for you to be in. 

Quote from: Mary-Ann on September 30, 2011, 06:15:08 AM
It is their day they can be as cold and as selfish as they want too.

Planning your wedding the way you want it to be is cold and selfish?   Is this really what you meant to say?  I know  you are hurt but this is really bitter and that's not a good place for you to be.

Sassy, you're an excellent writer - is it just a hobby?  I'm continually amazed at how you can clearly articulate a posters situation with solutions as well as being extraordinarily compassionate.  You've got quite a gift, lady :)

Mary-Ann, I won't comment much, I think Sassy nailed it.  Just one thing, in my culture it is a very high honor to be invited to anothers  personal event such as wedding, baptism etc.  You asked why GMIL would want to go, IMO, it is to watch DS get married, full stop.  They gave her an extraordinary gesture, to be a part of one of the most personal days of their life, if not the most important. 

My ds and dil have no problem accepting help from their parents. Ds and dil were living in dil parent's basement rent-free for the past 5 years.  Also dil parents paid first and last months rent for them on the apartment they just moved into.

sorry haven't figured out the 'quote' feature yet, could any one help me? but the above quote really baffles me, ....has the wedding already happened?  I thought we were discussing a future event?  Is it fdil or I'm just really confused?????

I have to admit I am totally befuddled about this issue.  I have a married daughter and the last thing in the world I imagined doing would have been intervening in her marriage plans, you better believe it that this was HER day, and no one else's, even groom came second.  I can't relate to any of this being an issue, its just a day and its the beginning of a life together,  gosh isn't life hard enough with every imaginable and unimaginable trouble we have to face without getting hung up on these trivialities?  I mean I'm sorry, I'm the most compassionate person in the world when it comes to parental suffering, but I'm not getting this at all.  Who cares if the little girl goes to the wedding or not???  If the bride yelled, 'no children!' in the background when I was talking to my ds, I would have just tiptoed away...no problem... I was just saying!....   

Hmm, maybe it isn't about 'no kids', maybe it is a line drawn in the sand.

Because this did bring up memories of my own wedding.  We had a HUGE argument (DH & I vs his P's) a couple of days before our wedding.  My Mom had invited the IL's back to her house after the rehearsal, but the IL's had invited some out of town family to their hotel suite.  I thought we were going to hear about *that*, but instead, we went to see the IL's and MIL blew up over the fact that she wanted a "Family" picture taken by the photographer, that didn't include me.

Was it really about the picture?  Probably not, but it did become a line in the sand that I was not budging over, and it seemed she didn't want to either.  We argued over it and she wept over it, but in the end, it was OUR wedding and we weren't willing to compromise on this.

In Shelby's case, I believe this was the DS separating himself from his parents.  I firmly believe that teenagers SHOULD do all their rebelling in high school, when they still depend on their parents for rides, cash, shelter, food, ect.  It keeps them in check a bit and makes the process more gradual.  It seems that anytime I've seen a person in their 20's finally "separate" from their parents, it's done in a more brutal, ripping off a band-aid kind of way.  It seems to take a lot longer for these 'kids' to re-negotiate their relationship with their parents, if ever.

Shelby, I think that "not taking no for an answer" was probably not the best way to deal with the "no kids" rule.  In pushing the issue, you backed him into a corner, almost FORCING him to take a stand, if only for the sake of taking a stand.

It's not too late.  If you want to make this better, you still have time.

Scoop, I think you nailed it with the  older chldren/band-aid analogy.

Ruth - there's a quote button up right hand corner.  Click on that and all the text will appear in the compose box.  Just delete what you don't want to quote.   (I had to ask, too)

I also thought the 'band aid' analogy was profound.  That explains a lot.  Thanks Scoop.

Mary-Ann, no one is blaming you.  We are just giving our various opinions and perspectives...that's what this forum is about.  We have a motto here that is "take what you want and leave the rest" and it works well.  No one has to agree with someone else...it's all perspectives.

I do think in your last post, you said it all.  Their expectations do not match your expectations.  We have all had that problem here at some time or another.  We have a vision, a picture that we have painted of what we thought would happen with our AC, MILs, FILs, DILs, etc.  They may not have been at all unrealistic, but they did not match the goals of others.   One of the most valuable lessons I have learned here is to let go of my expectations because that's what they are...they are mine and I can't force them on anyone else.

I do hope you can work this out and attend the wedding.  I think it will be a huge regret on both your parts later on.  Best of luck.

Darn it!  I think I got my posters mixed up.  I meant Mary-Ann, not Shelby.

Sorry Shelby!

Unless you have been uninvited to a C's wedding you cannot imagine how painful it is. Whatever the reason in one fell swoop all of those hopes, dreams and prayers over all the years seem to slip through your fingers. Search your heart, apologize if you feel the need, hold your head high and know another mother understands your pain and is going through the same thing.

Dear bdwell1904
Sounds like we might have very similar stories. I would not wish this pain on my worst enemy, and I am sorry that you are going through this too.  I can see from your post that we both have wonderful husbands and mother in-laws. I am thankful for that. I am not sure I would survive this without my dh by my side.
I am sending you love, strength, and courage.       

Quote from: sesamejane on September 23, 2011, 09:42:32 PM
.  And the folks who are supposed to love me and support me, and maybe give me the benefit of the doubt occasionally or cut me some slack - that would be nice too!! Well, maybe they suffer from the same illusions.  My G.. how we have fallen and are so judgmental of one another.

I don't want to be "perfect" anymore.  This is my official notice that I am not in the business of being perfect and am not going to expect you to be perfect either. Pass it forward please.

That's just what I thought only about a few hours ago. 'DO cut me some slack, after all I'm human! Why can I not be loved for what I am and what I can give, why are the things that are imperfect in my character those that are acknowledged my DS and DIL but never those that I do and can give? We could be so happy, why the pettiness? Thanks sesamejane for voicing what I thought only a few hours ago.
Liked the comparison with nature, a manicured garden is fine to look at for a while but give me native bush anytime to breathe!

MaryAnn:

When is the wedding ?
any more contact ? thinking of you ....

Quote from: Mary-Ann on September 30, 2011, 06:15:08 AM
I

What will I do on the wedding day if I am not going? It will be the hardest day of my life. I can try to avoid it all I want but I know that is impossible. My ys will be home for the wedding. I live in a small city and would need to hide in my house for the next month to not be reminded somehow of the wedding. Co-workers ask and will ask about my sons wedding. Before this all happened I was happy, truly happy for the first time in my life.  I still have things to be thankful for and I will focus on that. I will have to learn manage my own hurt feelings.

This is a poem which was posted in a different topic on this site. This may give you hope for this day. http://www.panhala.net/Archive/The_Guest_House.html

My thoughts are with you and your pain. It's not easy to focus on the good things that shape our lives when one aspect of it is so painful. I know this myself.

I was present at my DS wedding but it wasn't altogether happy. We tried to be cheerful for his sake but when I look back I think all our troubles started on that day because DH and I did not behave the way we were expected to. We just couldn't be ourselves. Sometimes I think if we had said what we felt there and then, the breaking point would have been there and then but we would have had more  time to mend. We didn't and now the pain and alienation is even greater and the work to get it right again is harder.
I just thought for a long time that riding the waves and putting myself second would work. IT DIDN'T!

I do hope that things will mend in your life.

I'm reminded of the Frank Sinatra song: .... and then I'm gonna spoil it all by saying something stupid like I love you .... I think that applies to much of our situations as well,

***I just thought for a long time that riding the waves and putting myself second would work. IT DIDN'T!***

Having read these words from you make me realize what DH has been trying to tell me for so long. I've spent so much time just going along to get along. Well dear ones I am putting down my boogie board and getting out of that putrid pond. Thnx hun for helping me see things a new way.

It sometimes takes a while , but we get there eventually ....... ;D

Quote from: chelmsford36 on October 05, 2011, 07:44:09 AM
I was present at my DS wedding but it wasn't altogether happy. We tried to be cheerful for his sake but when I look back I think all our troubles started on that day because DH and I did not behave the way we were expected to. We just couldn't be ourselves.

Same here.  We did everything we could that day to make it a great event, but everything we did was turned around on us.  I think that was the day that is sunk in that no matter what we ever did, it would be wrong.

Ditto ......ours was a brides wedding ....full stop !!!
We were surplus to requirements !

The wedding is on October 15 and nothing has changed.....

I know in my heart that this has nothing to do with me wanting my sd to attend the church service. The hate my ds has for me goes back along way and runs very deep. Our problems have to do with his father and he made that clear when he spoke to my bf.
     
Thank you chelmsford36, I will check out your link.   

Thank you chelmsford36 ....... 

He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.....  I hope he is. 

Sending you love

My DD shower is this Sunday, wed Oct. 30... I go home tomorrow from work 7/on7/off but will try to get to a computer at the library and check on you.

Me too.  I paid for a good part of my ds and dil wedding, organized much of it at dil request. Seh wanted it in my town becasue that is where they met.  They were living far away.  When her mother came to town, I was hoping to pass it all on to her.  Well, day of wedding, I was exhausted. She didn't like the place, the cake, the music, you name it. She was pouting and petulant.  I was crushed and felt so stupid having worked so hard and spent so much money. 

that was the beginning of some years of their extraordinary expectations of me, stealing from me (really they would come to visit and after they left I would find things missing!), and insulting me or critisizing my history of life when I came to visit.  Dil actually came to me one day when I was playing with my gs, and took him from me saying that she didn't want him to love anyone more than her! 

In the end, they betrayed and thieved from everyone in the family, and took advantage of my demented mother to benefit financially. 

I wish I had come to my senses much sooner and been assertive when my instincts were screaming at me from the get go!!  I knew they were being rude but kept thinking if I was patient things would get better.  No! It never did. 

Whatever your decisions, listen to your inner self - G.. may be trying to tell you something about t he situation.

bdwell1904,
Will you attend the shower? Has anything changed for you?

Sesamejane,
I know that I would have been thankful if my dm did a fraction of what you did for your ds and dil's wedding. You are right no matter what happen we must be true to our inner self.   

Chelmsford & SesameJ, you made me stop and think again, and try and go back to the place where I began to get well and become myself again - and this is the idea that 'if I'm just patient and keep doing the right thing it'll come out all right'..   Time to pull away from that thinking again, its what keeps me feeling responsible for the problem and feeling powerful enough to fix it.  the truth is that my ds is a selfish, arrogant, spoiled, corrupted human being, mimicking the bullying behavior of his father.  why am I not angry at his father who is responsible more than any one else for teaching his son not to respect his own mother?   because I 'excuse' him from guilt...he had a rough childhood, he isn't clever enough, he has poor personality traits... 

Maryann- No I have been uninvited to everything and told DD wants nothing to do with me EVER!! I was hoping after rational minds prevailed and some much needed rest was gotten, maybe. Not a word from anyone involved in the situation. I spent the first three days of my last off week shopping for flowers and making bouquets, and decor. I took her all the samples, supplies and the things I had completed. I left the rest of the flowers for bouquets to be finished sitting on the pool table. This was before the big kaboom. When I go home tomorrow I will have to decide what to do with all this wedding stuff that she no longer wants. I am actually going to take a day off first if I can stand to look at it. Then again if I know DH he has probably already boxed it all up and put it in the spare room so I won't be upset on my off days. I'll let you know.  ;D

Where do you live MaryAnn?  Can one of us come and pick you up for lunch or dinner?  You need to have friends with you for this!

bdwell1904 and Mary-Ann, it's more than tough to be "uninvited" to the wedding.  It's a club that doesn't have too many members, but I think that when you get through this, you can get through anything, and having not attended my son's wedding recently, I can tell you that the last couple of weeks I have been as carefree as a butterfly on a buttercup, the month before, not so much.  I've put the even that I wasn't invited to in my rear view mirror and look forward to any other events that I won't attend (but will enjoy the company of others who care about me) look forward to spending my money on items or people without being skillfully or subtly held hostage, and look forward to knowing that other people who choose to spend time with the bride and groom will be picking up the tab or dealing with every little crisis.  Underneath it all is a deep well of sadness but as Steve Jobs put it so well "Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life.".

This is the Adult Bullying Syndrome carried to extremes.  Going along is just like throwing a fish to a great white shark.....whets the appetite and they come back for more.  I learned that one the hard way, and I need to keep remembering it with other people who try to bully me in life.

This is not about "you" and what you did or didn't do, it not a report card on the kind of mother you were or weren't, if anything if you were a loving and devoted mother, you are more likely to get the sharp end of the stick, because those people believe you will always forgive them and take them back..........this is about "them" and some others of their generation that everyone one else should carry out their "vision" for their wedding day and the rest of their lives.

If you want to break it down, I think it's a type of emotional abuse.  It's deliberate, intended and there will be excuses aplenty about what you did or didn't do to be the cause of not being invited.  Don't believe any of them.  It's their wedding, who shows up or is invited is up to them.  Even Prince William was given permission by his grandmother the Queen to invited his friends first when handed a list of 1500 dignitaries who were to be invited.

They don't get brownie points for excluding their mothers in the report cards with the big guy upstairs, that's for sure.

Keys, once again your post is golden. I can't imagine the pain of not being invited to a C's wedding; going through all we did go through with DS's wedding and marriage has been hard enough. You have put it all into perspective and keep showing us how to get on with it when we find ourselves pushed out the end of the tunnel. Thank you!

I agree with Pen.  Keys...a great post ... Cant imagine the pain of not being invited to my AC wedding.   If you can endure this, you will come out stronger.  How painful....but this too will pass.   Oh God....I believe in divine justice ......I believe life is like being in the supermarket, you can get anything you want...but before living, you have to pay for all. 


May God Bless you all strong wise ladies.

Love

Great post Keys.

I saw this on one of my friends FB page the other day.  It was an icon, so I couldn't link to it.  I think it is very fitting for all of us here and a mantra we could all remember.

"When Something Bad Happens, You Have Three Choices. You Can Either Let It Define You, Let It Destroy You, Or You Can Let It Strengthen You."

Nana- love the supermarket analogy
Keys- just might print that one to hang it on my mirror ;D

Keys Girl and bdwell1904 I believe this is a very small club, one that I never thought I would be a member of.  It is not one I want a t-shirt for. :P  I am thankful that I found this place. I am thankful that I have found you, I want you both as my friend. No one should ever go through this alone.     

I too have things that I purchased for the wedding sitting in a cupboard. I cannot return them. Do I give them to my ds and dil to use as they were intended? I am not sure what I will do with them.     

My youngest ds is home for the wedding. I was so looking forward to being able to spent time with him but even that is clouded by this situation. We are trying to find things to talk about but it is difficult because everything leads back to the wedding.  As I mentioned before my best friend's both ac are standing in the wedding. My boss's daughter is the flower girl. I am surrounded by the wedding. I had next week booked off for the wedding but I have cancelled my holidays. There is no point in me sitting around feeling sorry for myself.   

My dh and I have talked about what we will do on the 15th. Part of me wants to make plans for that day so we are not around. We talked about going to Ottawa to see a concert. I think we are just going to leave the planning until the last minute just in case things change. We also have my sd the day of the wedding. No matter what happens, I will surround myself with people that love me and keep myself busy.   

I live in a small city in Ontario, Canada and lunch would be great with a new friend.  :D
       

Mary-Ann - you should take SD to Saunders Farm for the day (weather permitting).  They have these jumping pillows that are SO MUCH FUN (for grown ups and kids alike).  We haven't been at Hallowe'en, so I'm not sure of the level of spookiness.

If you're coming into town, the Museum of Nature has a LOT of interactive exhibits.  I would say it's better than the Museum of Civilization or the Museum of Science & Tech. 

I would offer to have lunch with you, but we're closing the cottage that weekend. 

As for the things you have for the wedding.  What if you texted him and offered to drop them off?  Just like that: "We have XXXX here, do you still want them?  We can drop them off at a neutral location.  No pressure."  No guilt trips, no sucking up (& no eating crow), no pressure.  Maybe it could open the door a crack.  At the very least, you would know that you did everything you could.

Keys girl thank you for you post that I needed right now more than I can say.  I've already been running in that direction so I'm right with you and accept what you're saying as my daily dose.  thank you .     Hope somebody gets a laugh little story from this I received a couple days ago in an email:!!


HOW TO BE GRACIOUS 

Jennifer's wedding day was fast approaching. Nothing could dampen her excitement - not even her parent's nasty divorce. Her mother had found the PERFECT dress to wear, and would be the best-dressed mother-of-the-bride ever! A week later, Jennifer was horrified to learn that her father's new, young wife had bought the exact same dress as her mother! Jennifer asked her father's new young wife to exchange it, but she refused.  Absolutely not! I look like a million bucks in this dress, and I'm wearing it,  she replied. Jennifer told her mother who graciously said, ''Never mind sweetheart. I'll get another dress. After all, it's your special day.'' A few days later, they went shopping, and did find another gorgeous dress for her mother. When they stopped for lunch, Jennifer asked her mother, ''Aren't you going to return the other dress? You really don't have another occasion where you could wear it." Her mother just smiled and replied, ''Of course I do, dear.....I'm wearing it to the rehearsal dinner the night BEFORE the wedding.''

Women are like phones: They like to be held, talked to, and touched often. But push the wrong button and your hiney is disconnected! Women are Angels. And when someone breaks our wings....
We simply continue to fly ........ on a broomstick.....
We are flexible like that.

Oh Ruth ........lol I love that story !

Thank you Scoop for the great idea, Saunders Farm is an awesome place at Halloween. Great for the little kids during the day. We were there last year with sd at about this time and she loved it. I know she wouldn't mind going again. Nice to know we are from the same part of the country. Sending them a text is also a good idea..... I will let you know how it goes. 

Love the story Ruth!   

Mary-Ann, I wouldn't send the text.  If you have items that you purchased for the wedding that cannot be returned, I would head on over to the Salvation Army.  I'm sure there is a bride who will walk into that store in the near future and whose heart will leap at whatever you donate.  I wouldn't give them a thing, and I certainly wouldn't give them the choice of whether or not they want to take it.  If things change and you should be invited, and those items are already on their way to someone who hasn't seen a $20 in their pocket for a long time.........well......snooze you lose (for them).  Leaving you to twist in the wind at the 11th hour doesn't deserve a day old ham sandwich in my book, let alone items for their wedding.

I'm not in your neck of the woods, but would do lunch with you if I could, but I hope you'll remember the friends that you have here and keep them in mind when the "going gets tough".

KG

Ruth...
Thanks for sharing.  I got a good laugh..at the bride's mother story. 

Love

Mary Anne, I remember my DD's wedding day, I can tell you that the 'gods' may be being merciful to you by removing you from that event, don't keep crying, my love.  My lovely DD 'had' to get married when she had just turned 18.  Our little g/s was only a few days old (this was entirely DD's decision, a head decision to give her little son a name and a father rather than single parent) and she told me "Mom, go out and get me a dress."  and I went with tears streaming down my face.  My only daughter, so beautiful and smart and outgoing, she should have been in a cathedral with violins and little girls in white dresses.  But I went to Cato and got her a coat dress, to try and minimize all the baby fat she still had.  We went on to that wedding, but I cannot look back on that day.  It was one of the saddest days of my life, because we both knew it wasn't what she wanted.  That little lad is grown up now and the joy (or one of the two joys, the other is just a couple years behind him) of my life, and his parents have recently divorced, and yes it was very hard on him and all of us.  I loved my SIl like a son, and he was far better to me than a son, but he was from a different world than dd, and we knew it couldn't last.  The price tag was very high to help g/s have a good start on life.  This one had a nice ending many years later after the tears have been dried, but the day was a heartbreak, precious one.  Let it go, there will be others days and the world will turn.  Be gentle with yourself and know that you are indeed loved.

Awe Ruth, your dd is so fortunate to have you.  My dd got married under similar circumstances, but that wasn't so much an issue for me.  She had already distanced herself by that time.  Though we attended, I felt like I was watching my own family through a window, rather than actually participating.  Thank goodness, people thought I was crying happy tears, but they weren't.  We'd seen our sil twice before they announced their engagement, though they dated for over a year.  He was a complete stranger to us.  It was very difficult, but it was their day & I made the absolute most of it that I possibly could.  Weddings & new births, so I've learned, can certainly take the wind out your sails.  But you're right, the world still turns... 

Hello lovely ladies. Well it's been 2 weeks, and no communication at all from my side of the family. DD shower day came and went. I am keeping my off days in the remote chance DD will change her mind, but if not DH and I will find something wonderful to do.
Mary-ann I hope you are keeping your chin up, DH and I might have to add Canada to our bucket list  ;)

Bdwell1904, I would plan ahead for something to do.......and maybe leave a day or two early.  It's a tough countdown, but I think it is best to be pro-active as opposed to waiting for someone else to maybe do something.

Hang in there,
KG

I agree with Keys, go ahead and plan something wonderful for you and DH and have fun. 

Mary-Ann, you are in my thoughts today, and will be this weekend.

Maryann .......hope you are far away on some sandy shore , my thoughts are with you ...x

Maryann same with me thoughts and prayers for you this weekend

I hope you are not offended by this, but I think you were out of line in your assumption that you could bring your stepdaughter to the Church.  From what you said in your follow up posts, it does not appear that you politely asked your son, but you simply told him during a discussion of logistics.  I'm sorry, but this is disrespectful to both your son and your daughter in law.  Was his response grossly disproportional, yes, but you were out of line to begin with.

As to the boycotting of the wedding by your mil, this will not go over well.  She is just making the whole situation worse.  Your best course of action is to limit the fallout, not extend it.   A portion of my in laws boycotted my wedding for very different reasons than yours, but they boycotted it just the same.  I can assure you, that we will never have more than a polite yet distant relationship with them.  I just had my third child about a month ago.  There is nothing more that they would like than to see the baby and I am in no hurry to visit them.  They don't understand this and I am of the opinion that they have gone out of their way to alienate me, why would I go out of my way for them.  In a year, this may be all water under the bridge and your mil might want to have a decent relationship with your son and dil.  You should really consider the long term consequences of your actions.

Hi foofoo,
It's always good to hear the "other side of the Medicine Wheel."  I appreciate your input, and thank you for posting. 

I understand your anger and have felt the same way under slightly different circumstances.  Unfortunately, I always went back for more when I was younger. 

I have changed over the years and have become much more assertive.  I hope your mil will have a change of heart.

thanks for the food for thought! :-*

For some reason I have been blocked from posting on this site so I have created a new user name.

My ds wedding came and went like I never existed.

I want to thank all the ladies that offered me their thoughts and prayers. I have cried an ocean of tears this last month.  I know I will never be the same but I will survive. My life will go on.

So much was said about me wanting to have my sd at the church that I wanted to fill you ladies in on something that happened at the wedding. I was told by a friend that there were children at the church. Children other than the ones standing in the wedding. Someone that was invited to the wedding brought their two children to the church. The children were younger than my sd. They were not asked to leave, the service went on without a hitch. No one die cause they were there. 

Dear bdwell1904 stay strong, I am thinking of you. Keys Girl I wish I had your strength.   
           
     

I have seen that happen at no children weddings, as well.   People with less to risk, I suppose.  Or perhaps people who may not have known children weren't welcome.  It doesn't seem that "no children" was made very clear unless directly addressed.  (You'd think names on the invitations would make clear enough who is invited to a wedding, but every wedding has a few guests who can't get their head around that).   

I did not get the impression that DS was upset about you wanting to bring stepdaughter, per se.   Since he still came to your home to comfort you, after you expressed to him your wishes to have her there.  I think it was pushing him, with pretty strong tactics, to override his future wife's wishes for their wedding, that was where the breakdown happened. 

If DS was strong enough to support his wife, his loyalty wouldn't have been swayed by the accusations against him.   If DS was strong enough to support his wife, even in the face of being told he was a bad family man for doing so, DIL wouldn't have felt like he was throwing her clear (at that point) boundaries by the wayside.   

I know that I did not handle the situation in the best way. I can not change what happened, but nothing I did deserved what my ds and dil did by uninviting me.  My ds did not come to my home that night to comfort me, he came there to pick up some money.

I just want you all to know that the one thing that started this and got me uninvited to the wedding happened anyway. My point is that a big deal was made about my sd attending because they did not want children there and in the end there were children there. 


     

I agree with Sassy that this argument was NOT about "children at the church", it was your DS defending a boundary, and you NOT taking "no" for an answer. 

Please stop justifying your position by talking about the fact that there were kids there and the earth is still spinning.  It won't help you to regain a relationship with your DS.  It will only alienate him more.

Because, I'm pretty sure that he thinks you missed the wedding, by your own fault.  I would even bet that he's upset that you couldn't un-bend yourself enough to be there for him.

So now, how do you move forward from this?  What are you going to do now?

Well, whatever happened, I can tell  you that it's not fun to go to a wedding when your heart is breaking about your son's future.   I went, but was uncomfortable the whole time, so I imagine it would have been painful either way.  Lucky for you - you have a husband and daughter who love you and a whole life to turn to if you'll leave this behind.

Catherine, many of us here do not deserve the treatment we get. We must jump through hoops set up by someone who may not like us or care about our feelings. Unfortunately, that's the situation and we cannot control what other people do. What we can control are our reactions to their behavior.

I personally think the invitation/no kids issue was handled very badly by your FDIL/DS, but that's the way it is. Perhaps they will mature socially and handle things less awkwardly in the future, but maybe not. My SM went to the finest finishing schools and still treats us like dirt. Our DIL also treats us rudely and excludes us from everything. We can choose to not engage, to take the high road, to act with grace and dignity....or we can hold on to our hurt and anger and end up looking like needy, whiney, angry people who deserve the treatment we get.

It's frustrating when we suddenly find ourselves having to follow someone's rules. When I married, I didn't lay down such restrictions. I've not been a demanding DIL ever, so this is all new to me as a MIL. But as Scoop says, what are going to do now? How can you move forward? What is your ultimate goal...to continue to see your DS or to be cut off completely? Which hill are you willing to die on?

hi Catherine , and welcome back !

My take on all this is that this is your DS's way of payback , for all the hurt he ''thinks'' you have caused him !
If it wasn't the wedding he would have thought of another way .
I think he needs to grow up and hopefully one day he will realise you did the best with the choices
you had .
Please do not dwell on the wedding , it will drag you even further down .
I wish our sons had eloped ! It would have been a lot easier !

I am closing this thread and again deleting your account...as I did here before (and also on my other site.)

Our forum is for women who want to be heard so they can move on. It's a place for all of us to share and care. It is not available to anyone who demonstrates being attached to being a "victim" and who wants everyone to come into agreement about how right she is. Nor is it a place to debate that issue.

Those who are welcome here are those who want to heal and who will do everything in their power to let go of being right because that keeps us from healing. Any other approach drags us down.

There are "be right" Websites out there...where ranting is the base of communication and "ain't it awful" reigns. Hate sites. This isn't one of them and it never will be.