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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: keeponsmilin on June 13, 2010, 09:47:09 PM

Title: Water Wings
Post by: keeponsmilin on June 13, 2010, 09:47:09 PM
My husband HATES water wings  >:( Everytime we see a child with them on he sneers about how that is just poor parenting, and how the child is notgoing to learn to be safe in the water, etc.  I do not necessarily agree with hubby, but I understand that he is very serious about this issue.  The other day, at my parents house, my dad proudly brings out a new pair of water wings for our 1 1/2 year old.  I thanked him and said we probably wouldn't use them.  I looked over at mu hubby and gave him the "I'm sorry" look from across the room.  When we got into the pool (at my parent's house) later on that evening, my dad immediately started to put the wings on little man.  My husband came over and, to my shock, preceded to help grandpa put the wings on him.  Hubby didn't say a word about his hatred of those yellow plastic things.  He let my dad have the joy of purchasing a gift and playing with his grandchild. 

My husband was able to put his own ideas about parenting aside to make my dad happy.  There was no bitterness on his part, and he never even mentioned the situation on our car ride home.  Why do I find it so hard to do the same with his mother?  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: Postscript on June 13, 2010, 10:46:11 PM
It's a matter of individual perception and intent.

Now it's a gross generalization to say all men and women are this way.  It depends on the male and female involved, but it does seem to me, that women fight/battle on a whole different level.  While men tend to be straight forward communicators who rely on the veracity of verbal communication, women tend to rely on a whole raft of different cues, tone of voice, body language etc.  We see more and we don't rely on words alone.

Perhaps that is why?  You see a heck of a lot more in your mils actions. 

It is entirely possible for men to feel the same way about their fils/mils as we do.  My father was constantly at battle with my step grandfather who persistently impinged upon Dad's role.  Dad recognized the man had good intent but at the end of the day he was the father/husband and he wasn't going to have his toes trod on.

Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: cremebrulee on June 14, 2010, 05:10:34 AM
Quote from: keeponsmilin on June 13, 2010, 09:47:09 PM
My husband HATES water wings  >:( Everytime we see a child with them on he sneers about how that is just poor parenting, and how the child is notgoing to learn to be safe in the water, etc.  I do not necessarily agree with hubby, but I understand that he is very serious about this issue.  The other day, at my parents house, my dad proudly brings out a new pair of water wings for our 1 1/2 year old.  I thanked him and said we probably wouldn't use them.  I looked over at mu hubby and gave him the "I'm sorry" look from across the room.  When we got into the pool (at my parent's house) later on that evening, my dad immediately started to put the wings on little man.  My husband came over and, to my shock, preceded to help grandpa put the wings on him.  Hubby didn't say a word about his hatred of those yellow plastic things.  He let my dad have the joy of purchasing a gift and playing with his grandchild. 

My husband was able to put his own ideas about parenting aside to make my dad happy.  There was no bitterness on his part, and he never even mentioned the situation on our car ride home.  Why do I find it so hard to do the same with his mother?  Any thoughts?

yes, your husband did the right thing...and, no matter how your husband feels, unless something is dangerous to a child's welfare, you should never nix a gift...ever...you say a nice thank you so much and when you get home, you don't use them....

At least water wings keeps a kid from drowning....if your husband is that concerned, enroll the kids in swimming classes....which should be a must that every parent does...to make certain your child knows how to swim....the younger the better....

you seem to be compromising your identity and beliefs, b/c your husband disagrees with something, which you should never ever do...so he doesn't believe in them....that doesn't say you shouldn't either?????  Stick to your beliefs, and your personal institutions, and don't comprmise them, unless you yourself do so...but not by influence from others...don't be a follower....and I'm proud of your husband for not making a big stink....that would have hurt the gift givers feelings. 

It really upsets me when people are so unappreciative of gifts...
a person purchases a gift for they're friends, family members, grand kids, and then the parents don't like it....how rude?  So, you take the gift home, put it away, and never say a word...
Unless the gift is a hazard to saftey, nothing should be said...and if the child's to young, then take the gift home, put it away and bring it out when the child is old enough....

These are my thoughts....

What bothers me the most is, that b/c your husband doesn't like them....you told your dad you probably wouldn't use them...because you wanted to please your husband and were afraid he'd be upset....so what...nothing in life is smooth, life is more unfair, then it is harmonious....what I'm saying is, don't ever compromise your identity for someone...I'm pointing this out to you, b/c years ago, I did it...and wasn't able to find myself again, for years after I left him...don't make the same mistake....

Hugs and luv
Creme
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: RedRose on June 14, 2010, 06:01:25 AM
Your husband saw how your father was not going to let your comment about the water wings stop the joy he wanted to have of seeing his gift on his grandchild and the fun he would have in his pool. To me your father was just looking out for your child's safety.

You should have just thanked him for the gift...and that was it.

Maybe your husband was showing you how to act with his mother...who knows?
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: Scoop on June 14, 2010, 08:58:18 AM
If, when you're dealing with MIL, your hubby spoke up and shot you the "I'm sorry" look from across the room, wouldn't *YOU* feel more magnanimous about the situation, knowing that your DH "has your back"?

I would.

In this case, you gave your DH the choice to either speak up (and be backed up by you) about the water wings, or else to let your Dad enjoy his moment.  How nice that he has the choice, instead of being backed into a corner!

Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: Pen on June 14, 2010, 09:39:29 AM
Good on your DH for supporting your dad and putting his own feelings aside. Apparently he's secure enough in his position as dad and husband to be able to do that. There may also have been a little "he-man, woman-hater club" stuff going on - I know my DH will stick up for a guy who is being "bossed" by a woman in a situation like this. Yes, I know you were actually supporting your DH's views, but your dad didn't know that and your DH may have sensed his disappointment. Perhaps we women need to revive elements of "the sisterhood" for the sake of a good relationship between MILs and DILs.
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: Sassy on June 14, 2010, 10:05:53 AM
This is a sweet story.  And here-here on the sisterhood! :-*

A bow of the head to both you and your DH.  Your initial reaction to your DH (the decline and the sorry look) when your father brought the toy, let your DH feel validated.  DH knew you understood his opinions and that you clearly supported his feelings on the matter.  So he didn't need to fight for something he already had.

Your DH sounds very secure in himself as a husband and father, and you get some real credit for that.  Because he had your support up front, he did not feel threated by your dad's offering, and he was able to understand the spirit in which it was intended was fun and generousity.    Even though choosing not to use a type of toy is a parenting decision, I think he felt your dad was offering a toy to play, not trying to make a parenting decision. 

For me, I KNOW that having my DH's support is precisely WHY I can deal with the challenges of his mom.  I trust implicitly he wants the best for me, that he wants to protect my feelings, and so I can let go of past events and continue working towards finding a possible solution.  If I felt DH was working only for his interests (say, to minimize drama or complaints with his mom for the sake of his personal comfort), or only for hers (to please her at the cost of displeasing me), then I would not be secure enough as a wife, to be able to cope with the situation.
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: cremebrulee on June 14, 2010, 12:23:43 PM
OK, I'm going to need all your help here in understanding...

Husband is secure...he hates these water toys...so wife says no to the gift giver, in this case, her father, which to me, was a very rude thing to do....I'm sorry but that is the way I feel...you might not like a gift, however, you don't negatively put it down in front of the gift giver, b/c husband doesn't like it? 

She doesn't mind the toy/or water floaters, whatever you call them, and her husband hates them....well, fine, and good, he hates them, but to the point where the wife fears disappointing her husband instead of the gift giver? 

There are times when huband and wife should have each other's backs....however, there are times, well, allow me to explain....if this were me, and it were my husband, I wouldn't have said a word to the gift giver, and made a big appreciative thank you to the gift giver....instead of trying to please my husband at the gift giver's expense....

So, if I feel ok with it, and hubby doesn't...I'm allowed to disagree...he shouldn't have to know I have his back, I love him, but I disagree with him?

Please don't take offense, I'm just simply not getting all this....can someone please help me?
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: Sassy on June 14, 2010, 01:10:00 PM
Keeponsmilin did thank her father for the gift.  I got the impression she felt her father expected her to use the gift in the pool right then and there, which would be a relevant reason to let him know they probably wouldn't use them.  If there wasn't a pool 20 feet away, she may not have felt it necessary to share that. 

(Like if I picked out a cute little black dress for a party that night, and my DH came home with a gift of a red sparkly number for me to wear, I would say thank you and then, out of courtesy, I would  feel compelled to let him know I wouldn't be wearing it that night.  I certainly wouldn't feel I must use a gift on the spot because it was given to me, and he's soon going to realize anyway that I'm not using it. If there wasn't a party that night, I would say "thank you" and nothing else.   It seems gentle advance notice when immediate gift use is likely to be expected, would be more thoughtful).

Her DH HATES water wings, and specifically thinks they're about poor parenting.   I got the impression keeponsmilin didn't feel strongly either way about water wings.  A partner's level of passion on something usually tends to lead the way when the other one feels neutral, especially on parenting decisions.   (I know lots of vegetarian babies with burger-gobbling papas,  :o )  Her father's level of passion pro-water wings, is not the same as the baby's parents. 

Her father was the one who used the gift he gave, which some might also consider rude?  He also began fastening floatation devices on a very young child in a pool without asking the parents first, which some might consider quite presumptuous?  Then,  DH helped.

Keeponsmilin' recognizing and supporting her spouse's passionate feelings, is what I think allowed DH to be a more loving and flexible son-in-law.  My understanding is there were four happy people: husband, wife, FIL, and a bobbing happy baby.   
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: RedRose on June 14, 2010, 01:11:55 PM
Quote from: cremebrulee on June 14, 2010, 12:23:43 PM
OK, I'm going to need all your help here in understanding...

Husband is secure...he hates these water toys...so wife says no to the gift giver, in this case, her father, which to me, was a very rude thing to do....I'm sorry but that is the way I feel...you might not like a gift, however, you don't negatively put it down in front of the gift giver, b/c husband doesn't like it? 

She doesn't mind the toy/or water floaters, whatever you call them, and her husband hates them....well, fine, and good, he hates them, but to the point where the wife fears disappointing her husband instead of the gift giver? 

There are times when huband and wife should have each other's backs....however, there are times, well, allow me to explain....if this were me, and it were my husband, I wouldn't have said a word to the gift giver, and made a big appreciative thank you to the gift giver....instead of trying to please my husband at the gift giver's expense....

So, if I feel ok with it, and hubby doesn't...I'm allowed to disagree...he shouldn't have to know I have his back, I love him, but I disagree with him?

Please don't take offense, I'm just simply not getting all this....can someone please help me?

I agree with you Creme...I just don't get it either.
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: Pen on June 14, 2010, 01:23:24 PM
Creme, good post. I know my DH wouldn't want me to speak up; he'd prefer to handle it himself. He's a big boy.

Good on you, Keep, for investigating your feelings on this. Let us know what you come up with.

Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: luise.volta on June 14, 2010, 02:19:49 PM
Well, we aren't all stamped out of the same mold and in some other area where your DH comes up short...you shine!
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: cremebrulee on June 15, 2010, 04:22:44 AM
I don't know, I was bought up differently....and I do understand different strokes...however, in the matter of gift giving, if my father gave my child water wings and I knew my husband considered them bad parenting, I'd still say, "oh thanks dad, what a great gift!"  and look at the child and say..."come on, lets go in the pool and try them out".  First off, your teaching a child, that when given a gift, the child thinks it's ok to complain about it openly if he/she doesn't like it...and secondly, you really really hurt the feelings of the gift giver, which to me, isn't worth it.  Some people are on fixed incomes, and purchase the gift they think someone would like....but they do so, out of thoughfulness...b/c they want to give a gift...I can't count the times I've gotten gifts that I didn't like, however, I would always make a big deal about the gift, smile as if this is something I've always wanted, take it home and never look at it again....

My mother gave me this stupid bird tapestry that lights up....I hate it, however, when I opened it, I said, "oh my gosh, this is beautiful...where did you ever find something like this?"  And it made her feel good, not to mention, the money she spent on it....and it's now home in a closit b/c I just don't have the heart to throw it out....she gives the most outragious gifts...however, I don't want her to feel badly...so, I really beam up and glow and act so surprised....people give gifts b/c it makes them feel good to do so. 

One time my dad, bought me some really what I thought to be, bad lures....(I loved to fish)....well, they cost a lot of money, he got me a whole set that came with a storage box for them....well, to my surprise, I used them and caught more fish then ever before...and I made sure I told him that they worked great....

The husband is a big boy, and regardless of how he feels, we'd use the water wings in dads pool to make dad feel good about what he gave, and then take them home with us and never use them again...and if dad wanted the child to use water wings, in his pool while the child was there, so be it....

hating water wings is a small thing, compared to hurting someone's feelings...and husband can get over it....there are things in this world I hate to do, but I do them, simply because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings....like graduations, christenings, birthday parties....and yanno, until I started reading on these forums, I used to purchase gifts, but now, give money all the time instead, b/c I fear that the parents might not like the gift....and that really hurts....b/c it's my hard earned money that I took the time to purchase the child something, and who cares if the child likes it or not?  Right?  I'm saying this out of anger b/c I spent a whole lot of money on a child, only to have things thrown out by the parent, and I found out, and it really really hurt....big time...maybe the parents don't agree, however, I say, grow up and suck it up for the sake of the grandfather and child enjoying it.  Now if it were something that were really dangerous, yes, I could understand...all this other stuff, to me, is small potatos compared to the feelings of others.   

I dunno, that's just me...like Luise says, different strokes...for different folks...
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: RedRose on June 15, 2010, 04:50:46 AM
What do you think would have happened if keeponsmilin's husband told her father that he will not let his child wear those water wings?
Her husband did the right thing and saw his fil wanted his grandchild protected in his pool. They both used common sense.
I don't see how keeponsmilin's comments helped in how her husband reacted.
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: Scoop on June 15, 2010, 05:51:52 AM
I think that the fact that the gift was 'water wings' is messing up the message.  Because we see them as harmless / helpful.  What if it was a toy gun?  What if it was a BB gun?  (I am *really* against guns, so that's my strongest argument.)  What it comes down to was that it was a known "hot button" for the DH. 

By acknowledging that her DH's hot button had been pressed, by kindly diverting the finger pressing the hot button and apologizing (if only with her eyes), the OP took the "stress" out of the situation.  It was no longer a stand-off, where the Dad expected (innocently) the water wings to be used, and the DH felt he had to back up his previous comments and support his STRONG opinions on the use of water wings.  So because the strong emotions were taken out of the equation, the DH was able to think rationally and act graciously.

This is exactly what I've been talking about, where the DH can ease the relationship between his Wife and his Mom.  It doesn't have to be an intervention, it just has to be a smoothing of ruffled feathers, sometimes even before they get ruffled.

Imagine what could have happened if the OP had put the water wings on the child and gone ahead, knowing her DH's strong feelings.  Depending on the DH's nature of course, but imagine it was one of the DIL's from here (Anna's or Pen's), he could have gotten all huffy and sullen, spoiled the afternoon and then argued all night with his wife.  He could have flown off the handle and said "NO child of MINE is going to wear water wings!" and started an argument right then and there.  At best, he could have taken them off and said to the child "We don't wear water wings in our family."  Any of these would make everyone there uncomfortable and unhappy, including the little guy.

All because the DH didn't feel like his strong opinions were being respected.   And let me tell you, if someone did this to me, i.e. gave my child a toy gun to play with (because that's MY hot button), I wouldn't just sit back and let it happen.
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: keeponsmilin on June 15, 2010, 06:22:13 AM
Interesting responses.

I know my dad extremely well and have a very close relationship with him.  He has a "date" with my two oldest ones every week and sees the whole family on a weekly basis as well.  As some of the other posters stated, I felt I needed to comment about the "gift" because we had come over for the purpose of swimming.  My older two kids are from a previous marriage, and they both used ww in Grandpa's pool.  My two little ones are from my current marriage, and of course things will be slightly different, because now I have an active, caring dad that wants to help me parent my kids.  The whole point of my question has been misunderstood by some.  I am confident that we (hubby and myself) handled the situation correctly.  I supported hubby's position, and hubby was gracious to my dad.  My point was why is it harder many times for women (both MIL and DIL)  If this had happened with the women in potential conflict, both sides would be fuming, talking about "hurt feelings" and being disrespected.  So my question remains, why is it easier (in most cases) for men to deal with in laws.  My hubby loves my parents and enjoys their company.  I have heard this time and time again from many DILS.  So I am trying to find out what is the difference?
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: cremebrulee on June 15, 2010, 07:11:10 AM
because men and women are totally different
women think and speak with a whole lot more emotion
women's feelings become hurt a lot quicker

and there is a huge difference in the world today, compared to when some of us were DIL's.

Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: Sassy on June 15, 2010, 07:51:48 AM
Keeponsmilin, I think the difference is you.  You were supportive to your partner's feelings, and that love begat more love.
That's how marriage and family is supposed to work.  The gift of love fills in the gaps to smooth it out.

Like Scoop said, if you had ignored or discarded your DH's strong feelings on the matter, or pretended they didn't exist, it's possible he would have felt differently (ignored, disregarded, unimportant, a little unloved) and his reaction to having his feelings ignored may have reflected that. 

As a woman, when I feel my DH's love and support, I feel it makes me a better person.  I have the confidence to be gracious.  While we were dating, that look of empathy and gratitude DH would give me whenever his mother got hysterical about something I did (such as attending my co-workers shower without telling her first), spread from him
through me to her.   From his love, I could see her actions through his eyes, and have compassion for her pain instead of feeling attacked.  Love begets love.

Maybe love let your DH could see your dad, and his good intentions, through your eyes.  Maybe DH just likes and trusts your dad because the chemistry between them as two people works, and DH wouldn't have minded anyway.  Maybe DH always said he HATED water wings because he was actually rather tempted by them, and the gift was a perfect reason to indulge a guilty pleasure guilt-free.   
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: Pen on June 15, 2010, 08:55:24 AM
I, too, am not convinced that Keep's DH was gracious and loving due to an apologetic look Keep gave him. It sounds to me like he assessed his options and decided that pleasing his FIL was more important than his predjudice against a certain gift. In doing so he modeled kind, polite behavior to his child, as Creme said. IMO, this is all on DH; he's a grown man who made his own choices about his reactions to a situation.

Perhaps some DILs these days need extra reassurance from their DHs in order to behave politely. I would hope all DILs would have manners, but perhaps the struggle for respect and control has created a pendulum swing we haven't corrected yet. And on the MIL side, the same dynamic may be at play which is a set up for tension if not disaster unless all parties are willing to be aware and forgiving.
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: luise.volta on June 15, 2010, 10:12:51 AM
I'm with Creme - Have you read the old standby, " Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus" by John Gray? Sending love...
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: justus on June 15, 2010, 02:21:51 PM
I think it has to do with context. Let's face it, some people are very passive/aggressive and use gift giving occasions as an opportunity to make a point. Sometimes a gift isn't just a gift.

DH told me once that he preferred to deal with men because all their issues are right there for you to see, but women hide things, and do underhanded things to make a point. Sometimes you don't know they have a problem until it is too late to do something about it. I pointed out that this may be because he is a man and can read men more accurately than he can women. I think he has a point in that women tend to be less obvious than men are. While we snap and bite, they take care of things in a more direct manner.

So, a gift from a MIL, or a DIL might be rife with hidden messages while a gift from an FIL or SIL probably isn't. If it is inappropriate, it is most likely just cluelessnes instead of an intentional slight when coming from a man. And, lets face it, women tend to see these little slights even where there aren't any and take them to heart where guys are more likely to let it slide or to not see what is so obvious to a woman.

And, about gift giving...My mom was a master at giving gifts that were statements about how I sucked as a parent or as a daughter. No one else would guess at the meaning, an outsider would think she was being so generous, but we both knew what she was saying. When we got rid of cable and decided to drastically reduce the amount of TV viewing done in our house, she bought us a DVD player and each of the kids a personal TV/DVD player. She also took this as a judgment of her and refused to turn off the TV when we would visit even when it interfered with the visit. She taught me that you turn off the TV when you have company, but I guess we weren't worth that courtesy. When we decided to wait until Christmas to buy DS a BB gun instead of for his birthday because he needed to show us he was responsible enough to have one, she bought him one to keep at her house and I could go on and on with such examples. I regret smiling sweetly and thanking her for these gifts. It felt like thanking her for punching me in the gut. I let her undermine me as a parent and teach my children it was OK not to respect my decisions, and my children paid for my spinelessness.

While in general, the thing to do is smile sweetly and assume the best one one receives a clunker for present, but when the intent is to hurt or to make a point, there is no reason to sit and take such abuse. It is all about context.


Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: Pen on June 15, 2010, 05:54:43 PM
Justus, I agree about context, but I still smiled and thanked DIL for an extremely cheap, unattractive holiday gift although I knew she'd spent way more effort on her mom and was letting me know how little she cared for me. I even made a point of actually wearing it to a function that she was attending, without any passive-aggressive agenda (honest.) I'm not likely to wear it otherwise, but it doesn't hurt me to wear it every now and then when she's around.
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: cremebrulee on June 16, 2010, 05:40:30 AM
Quote[quote author=justus
Sometimes a gift isn't just a gift.
So, a gift from a MIL, or a DIL might be rife with hidden messages while a gift from an FIL or SIL probably isn't. If it is inappropriate, it is most likely just cluelessnes instead of an intentional slight when coming from a man. And, lets face it, women tend to see these little slights even where there aren't any and take them to heart where guys are more likely to let it slide or to not see what is so obvious to a woman.

OMG, I don't believe this statement????  I mean no insult to you, I'm just so shocked that people would think this way??????? 

QuoteAnd, about gift giving...My mom was a master at giving gifts that were statements about how I sucked as a parent or as a daughter. No one else would guess at the meaning, an outsider would think she was being so generous, but we both knew what she was saying.

Now I see why you think the way you do?  Sad...I hate to say this, but your mother sounds like an extremely insecure and controlling woman....

Just Us, believe me, not all women think like this, maybe a few, however, trust me....most women in my circle consider giving gifts as generous way to say, I was thinking of you, saw this and thought of you....we also take a bottle of wine and/or flowers when invited to someone's home for dinner....there is no thing meant behind it other then love....

Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: cremebrulee on June 16, 2010, 05:52:01 AM
Quote from: penstamen on June 15, 2010, 05:54:43 PM
Justus, I agree about context, but I still smiled and thanked DIL for an extremely cheap, unattractive holiday gift although I knew she'd spent way more effort on her mom and was letting me know how little she cared for me. I even made a point of actually wearing it to a function that she was attending, without any passive-aggressive agenda (honest.) I'm not likely to wear it otherwise, but it doesn't hurt me to wear it every now and then when she's around.

same thing with gifts given to grandchildren in the way of clothing.  I hated some of the stuff my Mil and mother bought for my son when he was little, however, I always made it a point to dress him in they're things when they were around, or to say, "look" "see" how nice he looks in those coverall's....etc.  It won't kill anyone to do that....

I just don't get this concept today, some people seem so unaware of the feelings of others...it's all about them...me, me, me, I want...sheesh...?  I don't mean anyone here, I'm just stating a fact of what I see going on out there....no wonder people retire?  Things change so drastically....

This country is in for a rude awakening, very soon....and I don't mean biblical...however, if you look back in history, when did every great nation fall?  When they became immoral and corrupt...well, this country is immoral and corrupt and we're broke, broke, broke.  Do you know that New York City is so broke, they were thinking about closing down all police stations, emergency personal and fire companies for 1 week to help recoup money???????  When are we going to stop and believe, that every single action, though, reaction, effects others in a negative or positive way.  Obama in his speech last night said, he'd like to print more stimulous money?????  They are continually printing money we don't have??????  It is unbelievable how greed has ruined this country....

I'm so sorry...but this all begins somewhere, and the stories I read in this forum, and the concept of some people????  Is it no wonder these things are happening...it's a trickle down affect, or ripple affect...and it all starts with greed, the inability of awareness and individuality....

Whew, OK, I feel better now....hope you guys don't mind me venting...

I guess what I'm saying is, if your leaders are corrupts, so to, will your people be...and we have exceeded what is corrupt....however, most of us don't even know whats really going on out there....we build these little protective plastic bubbles around our world, and ignore the real issues at hand....

I so pray for my grand daughter....

Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: cremebrulee on June 16, 2010, 06:01:50 AM
Quote from: penstamen on June 15, 2010, 05:54:43 PM
Justus, I agree about context, but I still smiled and thanked DIL for an extremely cheap, unattractive holiday gift although I knew she'd spent way more effort on her mom and was letting me know how little she cared for me. I even made a point of actually wearing it to a function that she was attending, without any passive-aggressive agenda (honest.) I'm not likely to wear it otherwise, but it doesn't hurt me to wear it every now and then when she's around.

Good for you!!!!! that is the right thing to do....big hugs Pen

Creme
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: luise.volta on June 16, 2010, 06:42:54 AM
Over and over I have seen in my life that how I perceive something has little or nothing to do with the perceptions of others. Whenever I get to make a reality check, it is amazing to observe the webs l weave. Sending love...
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: justus on June 16, 2010, 07:06:10 AM
Pen, I know that most people are not like my mother. Despite her, I assume any gift is given with the best intentions and even if it is a bad gift, I smile and thank the person. Long ago when I was engaged to my xH, a neighbor who was an old woman who was not firing on all cylinders gave me a wedding gift she bought at a flea market she loved to visit. It was awful, but it was also precious because it came from her at a time when she could barely afford food. It made me cry. My xH hated it, but I displayed it anyway because it made me think of her and of home.  Even when my boss from he-double toothpicks gives me a gift that is a statement I smile and thank her and send a thank-you note. My refusal to play the game by simply not reacting or acknowledging the point she is trying to make usually drives her nuts. She is a bully and very much wants to see her punches hit their mark.

But, any gift from my sister is accepted with trepidation. Her gifts always have very long, thick strings attached and I will pay for it one way or another even after she asks for it back, which she will inevitably. She doesn't give gifts per say, she redistributes resources which she expects to be able to redistribute at a moments notice and if you aren't careful, she will redistribute all of your property along with what she originally "gave" you. Those pans she gave us as a wedding present 11 years ago? Well, we got a new set, so she expects us to send those pans to her DD who lives several hundred miles away. Oh, and am I using those champaign glasses she saw in my cabinet which have been in DH's family for three generations? Because if we aren't, her DD could use them. I won't even go into the great car debacle which caused lots and lots of drama.

It would be nice if everyone were generous and their gifts weren't sometimes wrapped in whatever issues the giver wants to press, but that isn't the real world. There are people like my Boss, my sister and mom who use any gift giving opportunity to take a swing at people. I would rather not receive anything from people like this. I have friends such as yours and treasure their gifts even more because of my bad gift experiences.
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: Pooh on June 16, 2010, 07:24:23 AM
Keepsonsmilin, here's my take.  My husband comes in from a long day at work, grabs a beer from the fridge (he doesn't drink often).  I sit down beside him and say, "Oh honey, rough day at work? Want to tell me about it?  He looks at me perplexed and says, "Umm, no today was a good day at work.  Why would you say that?"  Of course, in my woman brain I am thinking, "Yeah, right...you come straight in and grab a beer.  To me, that says stressful day.  Like I can't see that...geesh. I know better."  "Well honey, you grabbed a beer immediately so I know something is bothering you."  He looks at me, looks at the beer and says, "Well, no, I just wanted a beer."

I think we as women, tend to try to rationalize people's behavior and "we know" there has to be a reason for it.  My hubby, simply wanted a beer.  No reason, he wanted it.  I think men are much more straight forward and don't go all Psychologist on everything.  They take things at face value and we tend to want to know the "Why" behind it. 

Who's right?  No one.  We are just different and I am trying to learn that people are who they are and they don't always have a hidden agenda.  Now some people do, but that doesn't mean I have to feed it.  Most men, just simply take most things at what is said.  I am learning from my husband that life it too short to analyze everything someone says and does, and to let more things go.  He is learning from me that sometimes, issues do need to be addressed and solved.  Great balance between us.

We are all here, doing it right now.  Yes, we support each other, yes it is great to get opinions and simply to vent sometimes, but truly we sit here and type our analysis on issues and the "hidden messages."  If my husband had read this story, he would have said, "So what color were the WW?"  Lol.....
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: cremebrulee on June 16, 2010, 07:38:50 AM
justus
well I'm going to give you a gift, with no strings attached, and I don't know where you live....

here are a whole bunch of big hugs....

I'm so sorry that innocence and joy was taken from you by these people....the joy of receiving is as precious as giving...

sometimes we get carried away giving, that we forget, receiving a gift gives the giver so much joy...my foster mom, loved to give, give, give, but hated it when someone gave her something, which so took the joy out of giving.  Once I told her, when you refuse a gift, or when Mother's Day is coming, and you tell all of us, not to get you anything, your taking that same joy away from us, that you get out of giving, and it's not fair...I think she understood...

but before any holiday, and before anything was even said, she'd always say, "now don't get me anything" and that really hurt me....

but Justus...believe me, not every woman is like your boss or your mother or sister....and I'm so sorry you've been made to know and feel like this....

Please know, we here love you for who you are and expect nothing of you.....

Creme
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: cremebrulee on June 16, 2010, 07:40:20 AM
Quote from: Pooh on June 16, 2010, 07:24:23 AM
Keepsonsmilin, here's my take.  My husband comes in from a long day at work, grabs a beer from the fridge (he doesn't drink often).  I sit down beside him and say, "Oh honey, rough day at work? Want to tell me about it?  He looks at me perplexed and says, "Umm, no today was a good day at work.  Why would you say that?"  Of course, in my woman brain I am thinking, "Yeah, right...you come straight in and grab a beer.  To me, that says stressful day.  Like I can't see that...geesh. I know better."  "Well honey, you grabbed a beer immediately so I know something is bothering you."  He looks at me, looks at the beer and says, "Well, no, I just wanted a beer."

I think we as women, tend to try to rationalize people's behavior and "we know" there has to be a reason for it.  My hubby, simply wanted a beer.  No reason, he wanted it.  I think men are much more straight forward and don't go all Psychologist on everything.  They take things at face value and we tend to want to know the "Why" behind it. 

Who's right?  No one.  We are just different and I am trying to learn that people are who they are and they don't always have a hidden agenda.  Now some people do, but that doesn't mean I have to feed it.  Most men, just simply take most things at what is said.  I am learning from my husband that life it too short to analyze everything someone says and does, and to let more things go.  He is learning from me that sometimes, issues do need to be addressed and solved.  Great balance between us.

We are all here, doing it right now.  Yes, we support each other, yes it is great to get opinions and simply to vent sometimes, but truly we sit here and type our analysis on issues and the "hidden messages."  If my husband had read this story, he would have said, "So what color were the WW?"  Lol.....

Wonderful post....very much enjoyed reading this...thank you Pooh.
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: Pen on June 16, 2010, 08:18:08 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on June 16, 2010, 05:52:01 AM
This country is in for a rude awakening, very soon....and I don't mean biblical...however, if you look back in history, when did every great nation fall?  When they became immoral and corrupt...well, this country is immoral and corrupt and we're broke, broke, broke.  Do you know that New York City is so broke, they were thinking about closing down all police stations, emergency personal and fire companies for 1 week to help recoup money???????  When are we going to stop and believe, that every single action, though, reaction, effects others in a negative or positive way.  Obama in his speech last night said, he'd like to print more stimulous money?????  They are continually printing money we don't have??????  It is unbelievable how greed has ruined this country....


I've read and re-read the transcripts from last night's POTUS speech and cannot find anything about him wanting to print more money (not to turn this political, by any means, just to clarify.)


Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: cremebrulee on June 16, 2010, 09:26:30 AM
I would like to apologize to the OP Keeponsmilin, for hyjaking your thread, I'm very very sorry...should not post when I'm all high and mighty on the world situation....hope you'll forgive me....and my very active mind....so sorry!

Creme
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: luise.volta on June 16, 2010, 09:43:37 AM
Thanks Creme- Best we all remember that and not get into politics or religion. That's not what our site is for.

Please everybody lets not do that.
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: luise.volta on June 16, 2010, 10:11:51 AM
Please...
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: keeponsmilin on June 16, 2010, 11:22:35 AM
The post did take a detour somewhere along the road.  Regardless of your opinions, this always provides an interesting read.  Me thinks this case should be closed!
Title: Re: Water Wings
Post by: kathleen on June 16, 2010, 03:39:47 PM
Dear Keepon,

Just read your initial post and have one comment on both your husband and your dad:  WOW!!!!!!!!!!!  What great guys.

They are BOTH right.

What a joy to experience a story about a loving family, on this list.  You are one lucky girl.  BOTH your dad AND your husband had such considerate feelings for each other that they deferred their preferences in order to create &maintain harmony.  How wonderful and what a great lesson for your family.

As far as "toys," "guns," etc., etc., when I was the young mother of two toddling boys 2 1/2 years apart, I, too, thought toy guns were
the absolutely worst thing in the entire world.  I was adamant.  MY kids would NEVER play with toy guns.  So I forbade them.  Fortunately, since my opinions were loud and strong, my entire family got the message and never gave toy guns.

Then some research came out about forbidding toy guns and it wasn't positive.

Then my third son came along, and he was the most gentle, sweet, loving little boy in the world, and all his friends and mothers of his friends loved him, BUT, he wanted to play with guns.

During this time I ran across an old photo of myself at age six, which my aunt took at my grandmother's house, in the Annie Oakley outfit Grandma bought me, complete with not one but two six-shooters in my holsters, plus hat and boots.  I ran around Grandma's back yard with my young uncle shooting caps from our guns having a great time.  Later we moved to the suburbs with one of those endless backyards running across many houses and we played guns endlessly (I was a tomboy.)  What did this produce?  A young woman who was horrified by the Vietnam war and worked actively against it.

Kids really need to act out their fantasies.  Giving a kid a toy gun isn't going to turn him into a criminal or war-mongering soldier.  From ancient times, kids have played at war.  I think it teaches them something.  Of all my three kids, the youngest who was allowed to play with toy guns is the sweetest, gentlest, most non-violent of all my boys.  He's a music teacher.  The one who was constantly told he couldn't play with guns is the one who cut us off. He's the emotional blackmailer and worse.

Food for thought,
Kathleen