Hello ladies.
I don't know what to do, and would really appreciate your comments.
My oldest son is married and has two young sons.
How do I describe his wife? She has two extreme sides; a slurping sugar-sweet side and a mean explosive hysterical side. She was always that way, and we could never understand what our son saw in her,...but we kept out of it.
We don't recognize our son anymore. Once an independent strong- willed, but loving man, he has turned into a withdrawn, meek, .....mouse. I really hate putting this into words. Why? Because he has a most generous loving heart, and puts himself constantly on the back burner for the sake of peace and harmony in the family.
Our two grandsons are very much a part of our lives. They are 4 and 6 years old. Our 6 year old grandson is showing signs of mental disorders. He has started smelling things, but especially his own hands. He stands in corners and counts silently to himself, and he has eating disorders. He hangs on every word his mother says, totally apprehensive and meek. The younger one is extremely aggressive, never obeys, and I honestly could never handle him alone.
My husband and I are certain that our grandsons are showing the results of her extreme upbringing. I know my DIL does not physically harm them. She huddles over them, tucking them under her wings, can't buy them enough toys, but as soon as they act a little independently, she snaps, as in; she loses her mind, and is suddenly in their face screaming her lungs out. She does this everywhere, not just behind closed doors.
My son has crawled back into the background, sticking his head in the sand. ( I could shake him!), But the children have no place to go. We direly feel they need to be 'rescued.' But how? We think the only person that may have anything to say is our own son. But , meanwhile , he's been so brainwashed, (I am not kidding!), he can't seem to think for himself. I'm afraid he will feel he has to defend her, and even worse, he would probably tell our DIL what is on our minds.
The children love being with us. We feel we are a haven of 'normality' in their unpredictable lives. But the mother is always present, (won't leave us alone with the children). No visit goes by, without her flipping out at either the children or her husband. Oh, and she has been thrown out of the kindergarten. She wanted to control the teacher, the guests that read for the children, just everything. Her reaction? She has taken the children from the school, and is looking for another school to register them in.
So, what to do? Continue watching the horror of our grandchildren slowly losing it, or risk that the parents end all contact with us? And yes, we realize she has us under her control as well. After all she is holding the lever.
It is simply awful to watch. Are our hands really tied?
I would go to the kindergarten that threw her out and talk to the teacher, principle and the counselors. They have personal experience with her and should have professional opinions and advice. They also have inroads to the authorities and since they have already offended her they may be willing, with your input, to make an official report and keep you out of it.
F - I have no experience as to what kind of intervention might be available...if any. It sounds like severe damage is already in evidence in everyone in your DILs household. How could anyone who is concerned not rock the boat when she will broach no interference? I know there are homes where insanity rules. All I can think of is to find a well qualified domestic attorney to help you look at realistic options. Sending love...
QuoteHe has started smelling things, but especially his own hands
This is one very common behaviour of children suffering from severe anxiety. One thing I did to help our granddaughter with her anxiety was to work with the school (I"m a retired teacher so I was able to volunteer as a school helper). It did help some but without parental support, well .... But, be forewarned - if your son and DIL don't want your involvement in their children's school, they can demand the school put you on a "no contact" list - this happened to us (not the school but a local activity center).
Your son's and DIL's home reminds me of our son's and now ex-DIL's home. After approximately 15 years of marriage, she left our son and abandoned her children. That is where our DILs differ - ours did not care for her children; in fact, our grandchildren were neglected. What did we do? The best answer we could come up with (and to this day I question our choice) was to remain as close to the children as possible. Their father (our son) would not discuss the "problems" with his wife; unfortunately when we tried to do so, we further alienated him from us. The only way to the children was through him which meant "sucking up to his wife" and pretending everything was fine. Eventually, though "all hell broke loose" and the last few years of their marriage, she did not speak, look, or address us in any way. It was awful. And the kids paid - one got tangled up in drugs and the other became depressed.
We did not trust the authorities in our area; in fact, most in the neighbourhood (including those in our church) felt we "must" be at fault. After all, our DIL was so charming in public. But, eventually, the truth does come out and we were vindicated. By this time, frankly, we just did not care any more. And our son - several friends and family questioned whether he was suffering from a debilitating disease as he looked so gaunt and haunted. Things are far better today although we are still rebuilding our relationship with our son and grandchildren.
Our son did contact an attorney who suggested he document, document, document every incident of negligence to the children listing only facts - date, time, place, exact words, etc. (no feelings or opinions). By the time she left, he had amassed a large amount of "evidence" and she relinquished the children without a fight. If your son won't document, you can. Don't "fish" for information from the children - just watch, listen and record. Some day, your son may thank you for this information (or some day you may destroy this information). It's what we did (I destroyed our documentation as our son did not require it).
As Luise said there probably is no intervention possible. Your hands are tied until the children become adults. The only thing I can add is to stay well and strong in case you are "called into action" by the authorities and/or your son. Take care - the road ahead will be rough .... I'm so sorry ....
I have always felt where abuse is concerned "Physical or Mental" there is no question. I would call CPS (child protective services) they can look into it and they will never tell her nor your son who called. IF they find abuse they may remove the children. In many cases where it is possible they will place them with other family members.
So NEVER admit you are who called. Act as surprised as they are. Then when CPS asks them if they would want the children with family or foster care they will choose you.
Most likely they wont be able to even come over without the case worker. It will also start a paper trail of proof if ever needed in the future.
If you are sure beyond any doubt that those boys are being mentally abused then you have to protect them. I'm very sorry for you, your husband and grandchildren are going through.
Maybe they (CPS) can help your DIL get help also. Good Luck
Our son did contact an attorney who suggested he document, document, document every incident of negligence to the children listing only facts - date, time, place, exact words,
Yes this too. I agree
Hi, I'm sorry you are going through this. My advice would be different than the others. I would recommend actually not talking to the school. You would be going behind the parents back and if the mom finds out, you will be met with hostility and anger and could possibly lose any access you currently have with your grandchildren. My advice would be to start with your son. Talk to him and tell him your thoughts. Not in an accusatory fashion, but ask if he himself has any concerns. Ask him if there is anything you can do for them as a family and for the children? Do you live close by? Perhaps try to see them more without the parents. I'm sorry to say but I think if you call CPS or talk to the school, you may lose all access to them. Start with the father then perhaps a counselor. I'm sorry you're going through this, you sound like a caring grandmother. Keep what you have and try to make inroads slowly. I'm sure its incredibly frustrating but if you jump the gun so to speak, you could end up losing what precious time you do have with them. Good luck.
Just reading all your sympathetic answers. All your understanding and helpful words really got under my skin. It means more than I can say. Thank you very much.
Stilllearning; approaching the Kindergarten is a very good idea. I would just be afraid they would mention our name, intentionally or unintentionally, because the fight they had was so bad, that is was even reported in the newspapers! It was all about how my DIL mistrusts official school authorities and even questioned elderly volunteers if they could possibly be child abusers. It was really bad. There is so much hate in the air. It might backfire.
Thank you Louise. Sending love back.
Jdtm; I never knew or heard of children smelling their hands before. It's rather shocking to see. My own instinct told me it's an expression of anxiety. It was good to read this confirmation from you. I plan to collect material on this, and show it to my son. He tends not to believe me,...but if he sees it printed in black and white;.... Maybe so.
DixieDarling; Yes, very good advice. If we should ever go as far as calling a CPS, we would do it annomounisly. We are seriously thinking of going that way, but like you suggested, we need a little more time to document document etc. We certainly have enough material from the past, but the dates and time, well we'll have to remember.
I really appreciate your suggestion, Sarah, that I should simply "ask" my son if he has any concerns. I love that approach, and maybe with that method I can get through to him. He needs help as well. He needs to see the reality of the situation. Instead he escapes to his computer or his voluntary work; anything to get away from her. Hopefully he can let his guard down with us, and recognize that he needs to take responsibility as a father. It will be walking on egg shells with spike shoes. But we have to do something. And we will.
I suggest talking to a professional - counselor, doctor, lawyer, whatever - to find out your options. It's easy for us to sit here and say "Call CPS" but you need to know what kind of info you would need to make a report that would be taken seriously. Also a counselor or doctor would be able to more accurately interpret your DIL/DS/GC behavior.
Good Luck!
Now that I have left off steam...Gosh it's so healing to vent,...I have decided to wait till a blow up occurs again at our house. My husband will then take our DIL to the side ( not infront of the gandchidlren) and tell her we don't like or support screaming in our house. If she can't contain herself, we must ask her to leave. ....haha...I can't wait till the next blowup.....naw, just kidding,...but I do think we have to treat her like a naughty little girl that needs to be put in her place. No more, no less. That, hopefully will get the ball rolling, and our son will hopefully take an example from our action.
Thanks again for all your feedbacks.
Quotebut I do think we have to treat her like a naughty little girl that needs to be put in her place. No more, no less.
Sounds like a plan - but, be forewarned. We tried this and our DIL (now ex-DIL) raged and raged - something I had never seen before. My husband left crying and our son and I left stunned. Her behaviour was a major sign of a serious mental health issue (something for which we were totally unprepared). Hopefully, your DIL is able to be rational. Just be forewarned ....
Just something to think about,
standing in a certain area and or the smelling of the hands can also be a sign of a tick that develops in young boys. My middle son at around 5th grade going into 6th grade started clearing his throat and making this neck movement like he was cracking his neck. It was really weird and I even took him to the pediatrician. What I learned is that this is typical behavior in young boys and it will stop just as quickly as it started.
I started talking to others and learned that many young boys do different types of movements and at different times etc.
I wonder if your DIL (while I understand the screaming and loudness of her is hard to handle) does she take good care of the kids? Never hit them but clearly shows that she protects them etc. Does she keep them fed and dressed properly and going to school etc?
I know that some people are just over the top vocal and while I don't like it or agree with it, I don't know if it is cause to say she's a terrible mother/ person. It could also be how her parents parented her.
Recently I learned that my sister who has adopted a child - has spanked this young teen with a belt. I hate it and told her so. In my opinion a belt is a weapon and it is wrong. But, I'm surprised at how many people do not agree with me. And, I know also that my best friend used that method to parent her own kids. I would say she's an amazing mother but I absolutely hate that people use belts to discipline or even spanking to discipline.
Unfortunately, that's my opinion and not everyone's :). I would honestly prefer that my dil yelled at her kids than ever spank them.
Wondering what your take on that is?
My take is you don't spank with a belt...you whip, as in beat, a child with one.
I don't agree with hitting either. But I do agree that everyone will parent in their own way. I wouldn't hit my dog with an object either. Just saying
I find myself sitting on this rocking boat. After reading the newest posts here, I think I will forget about confronting my DIL.
Jdtm, I just threw my plan away, after reading your post. You are right, It is very possible DIL has a mental issue. Her sister has one, and I'm afraid it is a family thing. I don't think, either my husband or I, could handle irrational behavior. We would be completely overwhelmed, and we don't have the know how to deal with it.
Wisewomanalso; I found your post truly comforting. Yes, my DIL is a loving mother. She's overbearing, but loving. Yes she takes good care of the boys, in all the ways you mentioned. She and my son discipline the children by sending them to a corner. As far as I know they never hit them.
So maybe, and I'm looking hopefull :) right now, ...maybe our grandson does 'just' have a tick. I pray you are right. And that he will grow out of it. I just felt a weight fall from my shoulders. I will seriously take this in consideration.
Isn't it against the law to hit children? It is where I live. Never mind with a belt!!! Certainly my hand slipped sometimes, when my boys drove me up a wall,...but taking a belt? I think that is unforgivable,...and I would think those children, in later years, will always hold that against their parents. I certainly would.
My Dad used a belt and my Mom used a hairbrush but they only did it when I had done something wrong and never in a fit of rage. I do not hold it against them. They were raising 5 children and if you lost control things spiraled quickly. When I got older (over say 7) they would sometimes offer a longer drawn out penance but I always opted for the licks. Lets get it over with. By the time I was a teenager all it took was the fact that I had disappointed them and I punished myself mentally for my wrong. I loved them deeply until the day they died.
Oh, I forgot all about my mother's hairbrush! Selective memory!
My Mom was the "spanker" and Dad would pretend I didn't do anything and wait for her to get me :)
Mom's choice was a switch! Owwwie. I don't hold it against her either. I learned quickly to behave...well, for the most part and I deserved every one I got. I was a mean little thing. Didn't affect me as an adult or cause me psychological damage of any sort.
I spanked both of my children when they were younger...spanked....not beat. It didn't take many of them and then I didn't have to any longer because they knew I would and if I said it, I meant it. Then it became groundings and taking "things" from them.
Here's my thing about spanking or anything when it comes to children. I think as long as it doesn't cross into abuse, every parent has to decide how to discipline. My opinion is extreme yelling is abuse as well, if it is non-productive. I had a friend who used to yell at her kids, "Are you stupid? I said not to do that!" I hated it and would have to walk off, so abuse comes in many forms, IMO.
My problem is with parents who don't discipline at all!
Getting a spanking or getting whipped by a belt are two different things.
I got a spanking once in my childhood. But I haven't forgotten it to this day. So, I guess it was a shock for me. And when I think back why I got it, it was ridiculous, uncalled for, and an easy way out for my mother. Of course I always loved my mother. That never stopped. Just like a dog is loyal to his master, no matter how it's treated. ...just sayin'....
If a parent takes the time and explains to the child in all seriousness why there are rules; that usually works. A child senses respect, and usually doesn't want to disappoint the parent.
I'm not saying I'm holier than though. My sons were wild and lively, like most boys. I was often at the end of my nerves, and I understand when a parent is tired frustrated and simply at his or her wits end. But I do believe some parents take to the belt as an "easy" way out., and that just shouldn't happen. And I agree, Pooh, yelling at the kids like your friend did is as abusive.
I for one am glad and relieved to say that my children can never throw any domestic brutality in my face, as an excuse for their behavior today. Whatever; - spanking, whipping, hitting ,....if you have done it or not; I don't think it has anything to do with having problems later on in life with the adult children. I really think it's the adult child's personality.
Yeah, after all we are just preparing our kids for life and everybody knows if you mess up in life you get a time out. Of course you never know who your cell mates may be......
I am surprised about how many people in just the more recent days that I've learned spank their kids with a belt. Good people. But, I go on record saying I am against it and feel that there are much better methods that work.
Respect is earned and adults earn it from their children by expecting it and showing how to give and receive it. I truly found with all three of my boys that they were more disappointed than I was when they did something they later knew was wrong. Not saying they were perfect, but they appreciated when I would take the time to talk with them about ways to fix a problem or stop something from happening a second time.
Making excuses for your children is what I think is the biggest mistake we make and also, not spending enough quality time with them.
Just my opinion.
to the OP - I am so happy to hear that you are taking this all into consideration. Yes, yelling is a form of abuse. Maybe your dill does have a mental imbalance or is going through some hormonal changes or just stressed. It is hard to say - but...to come between a mom and her children is catastrophic in any relationship where the mom truly cares about her kids.
Right now, you are the teacher of other ways to speak to children. Let your grandkids learn from you and I'll bet they'll know as they get older that not everyone has to go off the deep end to get their point across.
So wisewomanalso......what is your story? What brought you to our site?
So, I'm a mom of three children (two are grown), I'm a daughterinlaw, a wife of 25 years to the same person :) and soon to be a mother in law. My own parents are both deceased. I am close with my sister and her extended family. Other than that, we have a fairly small family.
I came to similar sights like this about five years or less ago because I was at my wits end with my inlaws. I always got along really well with my sister in law and father in law and okay with my mother in law. Some of the other family members were so nice and we interacting so well, I would classify them as just family. It's tough to be in our situation (on both sides). I had to resolve my own issues after years and years of struggles. The struggles could have cost me my marriage which is really sad since ultimately a husband and wife should be the center of the family unit.
It was advice from wise women that helped me and now I think I'm addicted. Some people read novels, some people play tennis - I just use my free time (among other things) to give my own experiences and advice.