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We sat for coffee my MIL and I this past weekend.  We were trying to do it once a year as a "state of the family" kind of thing.  I thought it was a thoughtful idea so we don't ever really dwell on bad things - we talk them out and then move forward.  Well MIL was upset by a whole slew of things...Long story short.  We ended up talking about how MIL felt she was in competition with my family and what not and I tried to assuage those fears as best I could, but I told her that I wished DH had a closer relationship with his family, but that it wasn't something I really had any control over.  She replied, "He did until he met you..." not angrily but very as a matter of fact...this isn't something she hasn't said in the past, but I believed that the last time she said it was the last time she was ever going to say it.  Now I'm so upset I've decided to cut her off...it's unfortunate but if after 9 years of being with DH she can't change her mind about me "tearing the family apart" then I won't spend a minute longer trying to make good of it.

Welcome - We have to a draw a line sometimes and simply say, "No more!" It's called survival. Sending love...

I so get what you are saying.  My husband's family (sister and father) believe that "blood is thicker than water".  What they don't get is that "marriage bonds are stronger than blood".  We're civil to each other now (after a two-year period of silence) but, in order for my husband's family to "get what they want", I will have to "give up my marriage" and I will not do that.  We're moving a distance from them - more for my sanity than for anything else.  I am so looking forward to not having them constantly in my face and in my life ...

That is so proactive. You, are in truth, your own advocate. Good for you!

Wow QuietStorm, cut-off, just like that?  I don't know, it just doesn't seem to be an offense "worthy" of cut-off.  Okay, we don't know all of your history and background, so maybe it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Could you not just agree to disagree on this?  Meaning that she has to stop harping on it too.  Because it seems to me that you're already working on having a decent relationship with her.

I don't know.  I just always think of a cut off as being a "last resort" when the situation is really untenable any longer.

So please, come and fill us in on the rest of your situation, maybe we can help.

I would like to hear the rest too.  My first thoughts were just like Scoop's, "Really?  Cut-off for that?"  I was reading all that as a positive until then because I would love to be able to sit down with my DIL and air out our differences.  If I told her it was not they way until she came along, I would love for her to say, "Ok, that is so not true.  I try all the time to get him to call you and come see you and he says no."  My perceptions could be totally wrong, because being honest with you here....I do feel like my OS changed after meeting her.  That's all I have is the perception because they will not communicate.  I have only saw what I can see with my eyes, but there could be so much more to it.  I will never know if they are not willing to talk about it.  Even if she will not believe you, you could have told her that it wasn't the truth and you wished she didn't believe that and moved on.  I would have told her that I didn't know what else to say to make her believe me, so I was going to just say that I was sorry that she felt that way. 

Please come back and tell us more because my second thought was maybe this was the last straw and you have already had that conversation with her.  Maybe she has tormented you for 9 years and then I would totally understand being done with her.    I also would like to hear what DH thinks of the cutoff?  Did he want it too? 

Welcome Quiet Storm.  I'd like to hear more too.  I can understand trying so hard and then feeling like it was for nothing.  IMO, in your conversation with MIL, you hit the nail on the head.  It's really about DH having a closer relationship with his FOO.  It doesn't matter before or now, his relationships are his responsibility.  It's highly inappropriate to blame you.

Hope you stick around and post some more.

Quote She replied, "He did until he met you..." not angrily but very as a matter of fact...this isn't something she hasn't said in the past, but I believed that the last time she said it was the last time she was ever going to say it.

I understand you interpreted this statement as blame.  But, it may simply be a a matter of fact.  Your DH grew up. That's a fact.  DH probably did have more time to spend with his parents and sisters and brothers, before he had a girlfriend.  Before he had a wife.  The life of an 18 year old or a 22 year old single student, is vastly different than a 25 year old married man.  That's life.

My DH paid my MIL's bills.  Until he made plans to marry me.  Did I stop him from paying her bills?  No.  When he met me and we planned a wedding, a home, a retirement savings account, that is when he had more expenses and had other things he wanted to spend his own money on.  My MIL does blame me.  She calls me a gold digger.  Because the money he used to spend on her he spends on himself and his future.  And yes, on "us" not "her."  He and I understand "that's life" and so I don't feel the blame is mine. 

It's one of those things that you can only try so hard to convince someone of your good intentions before them not believing you is just too much.  Over the years we've had our differences and always I've spoken with DH and tried to figure out ways we could make MIL feel secure that I wasn't stealing her son.  I've organized family vacations, sit down talks, less stressful things like just popping in for the weekend, I always remind DH to call home and check in.  It has never been enough and if we so much as miss one event she wants us at she goes off on her tangent that I want to break her family apart.  After all I do to try to keep our families close I just can't take it anymore. I refuse to put so much effort into helping her mend her broken family only to be blamed for it's demise.  It is not my fault DH isn't close to the .  MIL used to complain about me and DH to anyone who would listen and she's alienated DH from the rest of the family - he just wants nothing to do with them now.

I'm sorry that's really jumbled but it's the best I can do right now.  In any case DH is completely supportive.  My cut-off isn't not total in the sense that I will still go with DH to see them for certain things.  But outside of the obligatory meetings and with DH by my side I won't see or speak to her.

My DIL announced to DS one day that she "hated us" (meaning me & DH.) No reason, nothing we'd done, she just hated us. DS told us only because we'd all made plans together to attend an event and he had to un-invite us.

Needless to say, DH & I were hurt, shocked, confused...and realized that any future meetings would be veeerryyy awkward. Did we cut her off? No, because we didn't want to lose DS. We continued to be polite to her; on Christmas we asked DS what gift she'd like and he said to give her nothing. Of course we couldn't do that, but we did scale back from the year before. I'm glad we didn't do anything rash because she is nicer to us now, and we're hoping she'll actually accept us one of these days. DS is happier, we're happier (but not delusional..we know where we stand.) 

DILs have no reason not to cut off their ILs, so I think the cut off becomes an easy response to pain.

What a mean thing to say, howbeit it probably is true.  When we meet our mates and move towards marriage and starting new families, its the natural order of things to begin to pour more time, effort, energy into our new love, our new families.  I am not at all saying that we should in any way abandon our FOOs on either side, but some families  realize that growing up and finding a partner is the way its supposed to be, and it means that DS/DD will have to share their time, love, affections, etc with another person and even their FOO.  They let their children do their own thing and don't require the same level of FOO involvement as before.  They don't look at that new person as "tearing the family apart," but instead welcome them as an addition.  And then some families (in most cases it seems to be the mothers from what I've gathered) don't see it that way and that causes a lot of problems.

Relationships (even family ones), evolve and "cycle through," even grow and/or deteriorate over time.  That's not necessarily the fault of any outsider, or anyone's "fault" for that matter, but is the natural progression/regression of any relationship type.  When we start the "tug o' war" to regain control on either side...the one on the middle is the one that really suffers.  Your MIL was right...your DH's relationship did change when he met you.  What she doesn't understand  (or like) is that its supposed to.  He has to divide his time and efforts between more people now, that that sets the change in motion, and apparently its hurt your MIL or she wouldn't have said that to you.  Some accept it and go with the flow, some don't.  Unfortunately I don't know of any way to make someone realize that that doesn't understand it naturally for themselves.   

I'm like everyone else - This statement in itself doesn't seem to justify a total cutoff forever-and-ever-amen.  But we don't know what's been going on the last 9 years either.  I think its wonderful that you are comfortable and confident enough to sit down one-on-one with your MIL, I admire and envy that quality about you!  And it sounds like you've handled her unneccessary comment(s) with grace.  I don't know that I couldn't have let that go without at least letting her know what a hurtful thing she'd said.

How does DH feel about what she said?  How does he propose to handle that? 

It doesn't sound like you are cutting your MIL off, in the way I think most people think of the term, "cut her off".  It does sound like you are finished making efforts to try to prove to someone who is regularly accusing you of false intentions, that your goal is not to hurt them.  It sounds like you are stepping back from a losing battle.   Which, to me, sounds very wise.

Okay, yeah, Sassy's right, it doesn't sound like what I think of as a cut-off.

QuietStorm - you are definitely within your rights to step back and REALLY let their relationship find it's own level.  I did that, and let me tell you, it's not pretty.  But it has removed a great deal of stress from MY life.

I believe that when someone says something hurtful, something they won't change their mind about, space is the only way which either an alteration of their point of view may come to pass, or (and this is more likely), that I just accept that is how they feel. Just because they feel that way doesn't  make it true. I am not sure that your cut-off implies what the rest of us are going through/are afraid of. A little space and time once in awhile has helped me build werewithal to be able to not be bothered by someone else's inaccurate perception.
If this is what you mean  when you say cut-off, I say I've done that myself a few times, and have been able to work it out when hurt feelings subside.

Thanks for coming back and giving more of the story.  I totally understand being tired of trying and feeling like you are making all the effort.  I still don't understand MILs or any title not being gracious that you have to split time between your own family and yourselves once you are married.  I have never been able to grasp the stories on here about MILs that demand every holiday and event be attended.  I don't grasp what an MIL is thinking when she does that.  Heck I can't grasp when anyone demands that. 

I think you are doing the right thing then.  It sounds like you have made every effort to maintain and cator to that relationship and a step-back is well warranted.   

lol Pooh, even if you met my MIL to hear why she demands all that time...I'm still not sure anyone would be able to follow that logic.  Most of what she says "I'm a Mom"...ok, so am I, so is my stepmom, my sisters.  She'll say her children are very close....DH says not and before me, he even spent less time with them.  She says she has traditions....yes, we all do! 

So when she gets nowhere with all those reasons....it is now b/c we just hate her, we would only do this to someone we dislike.  She moves on to guilt tripping.

Eh, I do think when you have one party who is this insistent on their way or the highway, nothing will ever be enough.  There is no such thing as a compromise b/c to them, compromise is doing exactly what they want.  Otherwise you're being mean.

I can totally understand how 9 years of this can add up.  Heck, I've only been dealing with my MIL for a handful now and I can't do it.  It doesn't matter how many lunches you take her too, how many special things you plan specifically for her........she is looking and only counts one thing only, if you're doing everything her way. 

And as a disclaimer, I know there are DILs out there exactly like this too.

DILs often get blamed for what is really the husband's fault.  It's his family, he should make the effort, but if he doesn't, then it's DIL who "keeps" husband away from his FOO.  I know it does happen that a DIL (or somethimes a SIL) really cuts off the inlaws with no cause, but families too easily blame the newbie.  Also, a younger married couple, especially once kids arrive, can be a lot busier than an older couple who may be retired or semi-retired or at least not have little kids under foot. 

If you've made an effort over the years to keep the ILs involved in your lives but they can't appreciate the effort, then it's their loss.  My attitude is usually, "If you can't appreciate what I already do, don't expect me to do more."  Some people are "all or nothing" types; if you can't give them all, give them nothing.

good luck.

Quote from: Belle on August 15, 2011, 09:35:41 AM
Relationships (even family ones), evolve and "cycle through," even grow and/or deteriorate over time.  That's not necessarily the fault of any outsider, or anyone's "fault" for that matter, but is the natural progression/regression of any relationship type.  When we start the "tug o' war" to regain control on either side...the one on the middle is the one that really suffers. 

This is so right. It can be a source of hope for everybody who is going through a bad patch with the family. Thing about family, you can't just forget about them.
When I read about DIL's problems I always think that I could be that MIL and without wanting it putting my foot in constantly. I think I'm not demanding but maybe I am.
Have a good day everybody!  :)

chipping in here with my tuppence worth .......
since my DS and family have moved in , I have realised that the main problem is my DS !
He fails to make any effort at keeping contact with his family and of course we blame it on his wife to be when the real problem
is him !
He doesn't do it on purpose , he just can't be bothered full stop ! When questioned about it , his reply was , Well they
(family) don't keep in touch with me ! To which I replied ...It's a two way street !
So ladies when your MIL ''thinks'' you are the instigator of splitting families up , you can point them in the direction of
their precious son !

I think we all have the right to decide where to put our energy and it sounds like you have gone as far as anyone could be expected to. Don't cut her off, but just stop worrying about it. She has a problem, but it's not you, you sound like a wonderful DIL. And I so agree with LL I think a lot of the issues we have with our DILs are really son problems, and the DILs get the blame.  :o

Wow, this is just what DH and I have been discussing and going over in therapy lately lol.  How timely!  It has come down to there are some unresolved issues between my MIL and DH but it is easier to point at me.  Our counselor said it was similar to a stepchild blaming a stepparent for the bio parents failures.  In essence, it is a lot easier and a lot less painful for a MIL to point at DIL as the source of her upset.

This puts a different spin on my situation in the past year. It really made me think that the disappointment I experienced was caused by DS and my relationship with him - amongst other things that is. Thanks for addressing this LL. One has to look at a situation from so many different angles and try to make sense of it.

QuietStorm, Your name speaks volumes.  I can relate firsthand to your frustration.  I tend to err on the side that as long as two parties are still willing to slug it out that it isn't time for the fatal cut off approach.  LL, you are dead right.   Her (MIL) issue is with her son, and she isn't strong enough to admit it to herself or to him.  Rather than cut off, I'd do one of two things.  I'd either go to the cool side of politeness and distance with her and no more intimate talks, or I'd tell her the truth that in all honesty and gentleness I just didn't have any more strength to keep beating this dead horse.  I agree with LL, its usually about the DS.  My MIL cut me off to the quick four years ago, I was dead to her when she decided I had come in as an outsider and destroyed her utopic relationship with her DS.  And also that I had destroyed his precious peaceful life.  She hated me, and wrote me a letter telling me so.  I did cut her off, but my DH didn't.  This was a death blow to our marriage although it still limps along as well as can be expected. 

I'm so sorry for all the mistreated DILs & MILs out there. I'm disappointed that after all these decades women can still be backbiting, jealous, mean, and spiteful to one another instead of supporting each other in dealing with the DS/DH who can't seem to honor both his wife and his FOO at the same time. I'm very grateful for my DS who stood up to his DW & her FOO when they tried to take over. They're still at it, but at least we get to see DS now & again and DIL is nicer. And I'm also very grateful that WWU doesn't encourage backbiting, jealous, mean or spiteful behavior! Our little haven...

Peace...

When you think.about.it men are bound to.change as they mature and also find a partner .They no longer need their DM as they used to ,so we perhaps look for a reason why and up pops the DIL ! I love my son to bits but I hope my FDIL learns how to handle him , he is a younger version of my DH ! A beating once a week should do it ! ...... :P

I think everyone of us here that have DIL/MIL issues have recognized that our DS is the middle man that could control the entire situation if they choose to.  They could be taking a stance against their Mother for the mistreatment of their wife.  They could be taking a stance against their wife for the mistreatment of their Mother.  Whatever the situation is.  Choosing to stay out of it and ignoring there is a problem is the worst for all involved.  It allows a not-nice DIL to alienate his family or it allows a not-nice MIL to interfere in there marriage and cause chaos.

It boggles my mind that they can't figure that out.  In the cases where DS actually ends up being the problem, maybe as in he chooses not to visit his family or making bad decisions, step up and take responsibility.  Using my situation as an example, I would love for one of two things to happen. 

#1.  I would love for DS to show up and say, "I want you to know something.  I love you but I just don't enjoy spending time with you, my brother or any of our family.  I'm the one that doesn't want to come to family events.  DIL has been pushing me saying that I needed to, but I just don't want to."  Wow!  It would give us an opportunity to actually have a conversation on what made him feel that way, and it would give me the chance to say, "Ok, that's fine then.  At least you are honest.  You don't have any obligations to visit or come to family events, and I will not ask any more.  I would like an occasional phone call or text, just to know you are alive and well, if that's not too much to ask?"  I would hate to know he felt that way, but by georgie, at least I would know.  It would also allow me to ask if DIL felt the same way or would it be appropriate to communicate with her?

#2.  I would love for DS to show up and say,  "I have had a talk with DIL.  She just doesn't like you or my family and I told her that's ok.  She didn't have to visit or call but I was still going to.  I've been staying away so that I didn't upset her, but I told her I missed my family and wasn't going to do that any more." 

Wouldn't it be nice to know that they could take responsibility for whatever their role is in the situation?  I have no clue which situation is true in my case.  I do know due to history, that DIL doesn't like me and I don't care for her much either.  The difference between us is that I will always be polite and civil if she chooses to change her mind and would give her another chance.  She had a pattern of cutting off people that don't worship her or do exactly what she wanted.  Maybe she's changed in the last couple of years?  I will never know if she doesn't try again.  I do know that my DS is playing a role in this and whichever it is, #1 or #2, he is sitting back and doing nothing.  That in itself, makes him guilty.

P.S.  There is a #3 that I would take, but at the same time would be the hardest for me.  DIL could show up and say, "MIL, I want you to know I've been trying to get DS to come see you guys.  I've tried to get him to call.  He just refuses and I can't get him to do it.  It's caused problems for us."  I would tell her I was sorry that it was causing issues in their marriage and for her to not continue to do that.  I would thank her for trying and tell her that I was glad she came to me to let me know.  I would tell her she was always welcome in my house or to call, but only if it didn't cause problems between them and that she could do it honestly without sneaking around.  That situation would truly be the hardest, because I would want her to feel welcome but not be a intrusion on their marriage.  It would make my DS truly guilty for putting her in the middle.

Profound!

If you knew Pooh , would it make it harder or easier to take ?

For me, it would make it easier.  I have dropped my expectations from them, but yet, there is still always going to be a little nagging voice in my brain that says, "What if they just decided to show up at Mom's for Thanksgiving this year?"  "What if I run into them at the mall?  Are they going to turn and go the other way or stop and be civil for a minute?"  What if????  I have let go of the why's, but there still remains the what if's.  What if they have children, will they change their mind.  What if I am in the hospital and they show up?  I don't expect them to, but it's like my brain has to formulate a plan for the what if's.  If I know the truth, then the what if's wouldn't matter and I would know they were not coming because they said they were not.  I would know that they would probably speak to me if I ran into them.  Just civilly but not an issue if we both commicated our wishes.

If they said, we are not coming to family events...ok, then I wouldn't be second guessing the holiday.  Do I get to go and enjoy myself and be me and not worry about it?  Am I going to walk in and find them there all of a sudden and have to concentrate on being civil and can I even speak to them at this point?  I guess that might sound kind of dumb, but I am one of these people that want to know the truth.  I wanted my Doctor to say yesterday, "I have no interest in treating you" if he didn't so I could move on.  I don't want him to dilly-dally around but yet really had no intention of going out of his way.  Be honest and let me move on.  It's like my disease.  I didn't want one but I needed the diagnosis to know what I could do next.  If it's DS and DIL has been trying, then I could let go of my way of thinking that she could be behind this.  I'm telling you, if I ran into her Mother at the mall today, I would turn and go the other way because of my history with her.  If I knew that DIL was actually caught in the middle, I would stop and try to talk to her Mother and apologize to her for behaving so coldly in the past after our rifts.  If I'm wrong in my assumptions, I want to apologize.  Doesn't mean they have to accept it, but I would like the opportunity to do that.

This has nothing to do with DS/DIL and more to do with my personality.  I'm like that about everything.  I was more mad at my Ex for not telling me that he had met someone that he thought he wanted to get to know, than the actual affair.  We had had conversations about friends having affairs and I had always told him that if he ever met someone, I would want to know.  If he could come in and tell me, before doing anything, that he had met someone that he thought he wanted to see or get to know better...tell me.  Would it hurt any less?  No and yes.  It would still hurt but at least I would know he respected me and at one time loved me enough to be honest.  I told him I would be upset but that I would be willing to be civil about the whole thing and work through the divorce with him and be fair.    I told him that if he ever did have an affair and I caught him, then all bets were off and it wouldn't be pretty.  I know that's probably a weird thing to tell your DH but I believe in honesty and that's how I feel about affairs.  Why would I want to be with someone that wanted to be with someone else?  He actually agreed and said he felt the same way.  Liar.

At least for my MIL it's clear and it always has been.  I never liked leading the family on and pretending we would show up for something when neither myself nor DH intended on going, but MIL did always act like she expect us to surprise her when she knew well in advance we weren't going to something.

I did however do a bad thing.  The day after the "coffee talk" we were still in town because DH had something to do for work.  He told MIL that I would be roaming the mall all day and MIL took it upon herself to drive out to the mall with SIL in tow (SIL have been troublesome to say the least and to keep the peace we are civil but distant with her) to have a shopping day with me.  She tells DH that this is her plan without letting me know until she's there.  I was still fuming from "coffee talk" so I ignored her calls and avoided her all day.  Granted I had to meet up with her for lunch with DH but at that point SIL had already gone home.  But I suppose for my MIL the "what ifs" come to play because she puts them there.

Pooh I completely understand what you're saying about "what if"...I think about it too - what if they show up in town to surprise us, what if we go to the holiday and someone acts out...if everyone could be upfront about their feelings and intentions we'd all be a lot happier.

QuietStorm, it is similar here too.  Neither DH or I have waffled around in responding to invites or letting people know our plans.  For some reason DH's family acts in secret.  They will know the plan but won't let us know until last minute.  Things in my world that are social signals to let you know that you're not really welcome.  But in DHs family they act out if you don't show up.  And the surprise visits and secret ambushes out in public, wow, I really do not know why they think it is a good idea at all, but they do and it's the norm. 

And the "what ifs" are familiar to me too.  Are they going to show up at an event I'm at?  Are they going to show up at my home?  What if they call DH crying?  It goes on and on, so for me, the challenge has been to let it all go.  They are going to do and be who they want to be.

I can agree to disagree with someone but yet never worry about if I run into them.  I know where they stand, they know where I stand.  If someone is shunning me and I don't know why, I am more than likely going to go the other way when I see them coming and then worry about what to do next time I run into them.  Do I confront them, do I avoid them.  If DS said he was choosing not to come to events, I wouldn't feel like I couldn't send him a Happy Birthday text.

I feel a lot of the same way Pooh.  I don't have to completely avoid someone over a snit, but I don't necessarily put myself in their line-of-fire either.  My MIL's biggest public complaint of me is that I have stopped visiting, years ago.  She uses this to tell others "DIL doesn't want anything to do with us, she doesn't want to try to work this out, so I'm not going to either." 

That's her perception.  The fact is that after years of being berated, mocked, made fun of, and belittled in her home, amidst others, I just stopped going.  She knew I was uncomfortable because DH told her so.  Her comments were audacious enough to make everyone in the room drop their jaws, yet to her her comments were "justified, and I just needed to grow a thicker skin if I was going to fit into this family!"  Of ourse, she had "done nothing wrong."

So when I just stopped going to her holidays, she got very defensive (and even more offensive).  The first few years that I didn't go, DH went without me.  We spent 3 Christmas-es in a row withour individual FOO's, and it was miserable.  To make it worse, his mother kept on making comments about me, even worse ones when I wasn't there to defend myself (at that time, DH wouldn't DARE defend me to Mumsy).  DH got so tired of it that he finally told his mother that he would not be coming to visit again until she apologized to both of us for the way she'd acted and the things she'd said to and about me.  LOL, I'll let you guess how that turned out.

Now, neither of us visit her.  We don't invite her to visit either.  When she wants to "stop in" for a few days on her way to Florida, we ask her to get a hotel room and we will meet her in public for dinner.  She has invited me to her house to stay (they live several states away), but I just won't put myself in her territory, because it appears that she thinks that gives her a right to speak to me however she chooses.

But darned if I do, and darned if I don't.  If I go, she treats me like dirt.  If I don't, she tells everyone I "avoid her family."  Its not all of them, she's the only one who's really intolerable.   

Quote from: Pooh on August 19, 2011, 09:14:22 AM
I can agree to disagree with someone but yet never worry about if I run into them.  I know where they stand, they know where I stand.  If someone is shunning me and I don't know why, I am more than likely going to go the other way when I see them coming and then worry about what to do next time I run into them.  Do I confront them, do I avoid them.  If DS said he was choosing not to come to events, I wouldn't feel like I couldn't send him a Happy Birthday text.

I'm ok with conflict and on-going conflict.  One of the things I noticed that bothers me with my MIL are the scenes she makes.  Picking up DD and twirling her around, screeching at the top of her lungs how much she loooooves me, crying, the over the top emotions really bother me.  So in her case, it is definitely our personalities don't mesh in this area and I'm afraid of saying the wrong thing, which I'm apparently prone to do lol. 

Belle, I don't blame you one bit.  I have stated several times, that if my DIL just doesn't like me and doesn't want to come over...ok.  If DS wants to come visit without her then she shouldn't stand in his way, like you were doing.  If DS showed up on Christmas without her, I would be going, "What are you doing?  This is Christmas.  I appreciate that you guys are ok with going to family without each other, but truly you should limit that to non-holidays or at least none of the biggies Son.   It's important that you guys get to spend these times together.  We can get together tomorrow or some other time to do our Christmas.  Go surprise that wife of yours!"  If you guys truly knew me, you would be shocked how easy I am to get along with on things like that and how I totally believe in they should be together for the Holidays.

Belle I think it's great that you have set your boundaries.  No one deserves to be treated that way and she is absolutely wrong.  It's a shame that you are missing out on the other good family members because of her antics, but totally understandable.  MILs like her make me want to go sit in the room with them with a paintball gun and every time they say something nasty, shoot them.  Kind of like we used to do to our dog we were trying to train with a a water bottle.  They told us every time he started chewing on furniture, shoes or anything that didn't belong to him, to spray a squirt of water at his nose.  He would learn to not do that.  Our friends were training one at the same time and we told them about it.  3 months later, their dog learned.  1 year later, we found ours a new home because he didn't and I was tired of him destroying everything I worked hard for.

You're a good wife Belle and a great DIL that someone is missing out on.

Pam and Belle

For me, you true assets as dil's in our forum (some others too).  Your contribution is unvaluable...we have a lot to learn..  I am also a dil (my mil is 90 lol)  and we love each other dearly.....but it was easier back then to have a good relationship with in-laws (really dont know why) but things have changed now....and I love to hear what young adults have to say now.  The clarity and honesty in your posts are awesome.

Good luck to you
Love you guys

As most of you know, we started out as a MIL site...(www.MotherInLawsUnite.com) to try to figure out what went wrong and if there was anything we could do about it. Then DILs started joining us asking if we could help them with difficult MILs. In turn, of course, we asked them what might be done with difficult DILS. From that we learned that it wasn't the titles all but the person. Quite a revelation. So we took it from there. We look at the dynamics and see if there is anything we can do or if we are innocent bystanders and need to look at survival...or both. Sending love...

Pooh, dh and I told a ds and dil several years ago that since Xmas Eve and Day were extremely important to dil's family and the only family tradition, they must go to her family's and we would see them later; they were saying they would each go to their own FOO's, that it was just another day.  They were afraid, I'm sure, of offending us and dil's FOO; we insisted bc we wanted them to be together and also we knew how important it was to dil and her FOO to be together.   

With other dil, Christmas is long-stranding tradition to be at great-aunt's house and that's it.  We don't even think of suggesting otherwise bc it would only lead to "no" and hard feelings, so we get together another time; we just have to make other plans.  We are fortunate that both dils will come to our home other times and vice versa.

We haven't had serious problems that would warrant deep down problem solving discussions.  Things I get upset about really can't be solved; maybe they aren't that major, just differences in personalities, etc.  We just talk it out briefly when there's a problem.  Lucky so far.....

Justan oldgrandma:

You and your husband are great.  Your son and dil are lucky to have you.  Wow....all understanding and only caring to give them peace. 

Great heart indeed

Love

Quote from: Nana on August 20, 2011, 11:02:00 AM
Pam and Belle

For me, you true assets as dil's in our forum (some others too).  Your contribution is unvaluable...we have a lot to learn..  I am also a dil (my mil is 90 lol)  and we love each other dearly.....but it was easier back then to have a good relationship with in-laws (really dont know why) but things have changed now....and I love to hear what young adults have to say now.  The clarity and honesty in your posts are awesome.

Good luck to you
Love you guys

Thanks, Nana!  Sending love right back at ya!

To be honest, I was shocked at how things happened with my MIL.  I really thought it would be like all the other in law relationships I've seen, some aren't the best.  My stepmom and grandmother didn't see eye to eye but I never heard one speak awful about the other or treat each other any different than any other valued family member.  That just wasn't an option

I assumed that my MIL and I would get along and have a great relationship.  I'm slowly learning that I too had expectations that were unfair to expect of others.  For me, WWU has been invaluable to hear the MILs side. 

Most of us get to be both. I have had three MILs...(Val was 78 when we married, so his mom was gone.) One walked on water, one I never got to know and one was a total mess but didn't project that onto me. I have since had, lets see...five DILs. No two experiences on either end were alike in any way. I have an ex-DIL that would take a bullet for me and will be the one sitting by my side when I pass...and two ex-DILs that think I am the reincarnation of the Witch of Ender. Another feared me and thought there was no way to live up to me and one likes me even though she thinks I am seriously lacking. Kirk and Sandy aren't married but are in a deep and fulfilling, lifetime relationship. When we introduce each other, we use the MIL/DIL titles because it's simpler. She's a peach and we are very different but very close.

Life's a hoot!

You may not know it, but you are a pretty tough act to follow, Luise...   ;D

I have to admit that my previous post makes me sound like I have it all together; like I am totally content w giving dils total pass on doing what they want (a lot more devotion/time/attention/closeness to their FOOS..... which means sons don't have the time and attention to give to us bc it's their choice, as many have said, to make their own families happy; they are grown now and again, as people say, it's their choice.)
 
We are still debating, dh and I, about how long do we wait for dils to let us know when next holiday will end at FOO's and what weekend might be w us, do we plan a trip or go to dh's family's?  Still don't want to NOT see them!

And at holiday time, still an empty spot in heart, remembering past holidays..... feeling alone then, gotta make plans of our own, bc there's no way to change anything; dss know but as has been said, it's their decision to make and if new family is happy, it doesn't help for me to do a guilt trip..... said something once, do get more time...... has to be enough..... and we do get a lot of joy in seeing them.

So I can talk big about being content but as someone said on another board, it's an ongoing thing to make ourselves happy when there is no way to change things w/o losing the good rapport we have by "giving in" w/o saying so..... telling the plans we make for ourselves..... making dss feel guilty is a no win situation; serenity prayer said a whole lot here.   Trying hard to be grateful, trying to let expectations go, "refitting" dh's and my lives bc even though dils' families haven't let go bc they are still so involved, to a certain extent we must.....

Zipping mouth when "things" are expressed and then there's walking on eggshells, trying to be helpful w/o being bossy; but it always passes.....

Just wanted to say dh and i do lose patience, feel neglected and out of it at times, but more to lose by throwing our own tantrums!  And sons and families do appreciate us and in our silence we are recognized, I think, as the good guys..... and it's taken me time to learn, "if you can't beat 'em".... and compared to many, have got it made.  By not demanding, we are invited..... and ILs and we get along fine, so....

This site helps bc there are a lot of suggestions on how to do the living for ourselves thing...

But it's still a struggle at times!  Mope in bathtub at times.....try not to vent too much to dh bc just makes him feel bad.... 

Signed, not a saint, not unselfish, still learning, still coping!

I'm with you there GM.  I'm very understanding but it doesn't make you feel any less neglected.  I actually think it makes me feel more neglected at times because I am very flexible.  I'm not perfect either but I'm also not the wicked witch of the west.  It is great to come here and realize we are not alone, both DILS and MILS and know we are still important.

I like your post grandma ......it kinda fits most of us here , but what a shame that we feel we.just have to fit in ! That our feelings  are usually last to be considered that we feel like the last rung on the ladder . They never know when they might need that  last step........!

Quote from: lancaster lady on August 21, 2011, 10:40:41 PM
That our feelings  are usually last to be considered that we feel like the last rung on the ladder . They never know when they might need that  last step........!

Love this!

JAOG, LL, Pooh, I'm with you too. I'm a pretzel.

Quote from: lancaster lady on August 21, 2011, 10:40:41 PM
I like your post grandma ......it kinda fits most of us here , but what a shame that we feel we.just have to fit in ! That our feelings  are usually last to be considered that we feel like the last rung on the ladder . They never know when they might need that  last step........!

I thought about that same idea - the "last rung" and needing DH's family.  I was thought to myself that there may come a time when we'll need them in one way or another and that turned out to be true.  When we were buying our first home DH wanted his family to come through and help us in a couple of ways and what ended up happening is that they weren't there.  They completely let us down.  Them not being able to come through for us and especially him was heartbreaking and really led me to keep my distance.

Quote from: QuietStorm on August 22, 2011, 09:55:16 PM

Quote from: lancaster lady on August 21, 2011, 10:40:41 PM
I like your post grandma ......it kinda fits most of us here , but what a shame that we feel we.just have to fit in ! That our feelings  are usually last to be considered that we feel like the last rung on the ladder . They never know when they might need that  last step........!

I thought about that same idea - the "last rung" and needing DH's family.  I was thought to myself that there may come a time when we'll need them in one way or another and that turned out to be true.  When we were buying our first home DH wanted his family to come through and help us in a couple of ways and what ended up happening is that they weren't there.  They completely let us down.  Them not being able to come through for us and especially him was heartbreaking and really led me to keep my distance.

At the end of the day, no adult really needs anyone.  There is always a way.

I'd rather eat glass than ask someone who dislikes me for help.

I agree Pam1 - if you can't be civil to me, keep your money and your gifts, just stay away.  No need to inflict yourself upon me if you can't stand me, and the last thing I want to do is give you something to hold over my head, to make me feel like I "owe" you something.  That's pretty much my philosophy for anybody, not just my MIL.   

" Them not being able to come through for us and especially him was heartbreaking and really led me to keep my distance."

Am I reading this correctly - they were unable to help so that upset you?  They didn't have the money to help and that led you to keep your distance?   Just making sure I understand this.

Unable to - not monetarily - but in making preparations to move, or afterwards when we were fixing and settling in etc. they insisted that they wanted to come when they wanted to come and not when we really needed them.  That was sad because my family was with us the whole time helping when we needed them and DH felt a little abandoned.

Oh, I see.   I can relate. 

Perhaps it was uncomfortable for your ILs to be around your family? DH & I would rather not be around our DIL's FOO - it's very awkward.

QuotePerhaps it was uncomfortable for your ILs to be around your family? DH & I would rather not be around our DIL's FOO - it's very awkward.

Pen I totally see where you're coming from, especially from what I've read about your situation with your DIL and her FOO.  Awkward may be a little of an understatement.  :)

And I know you're not alone in that either.  Lots of folks feel this way.  Shoot, I know I do, and I know my FOO feels awkward around DH's FOO....albeit mostly because my mother would really love nothing more than to make my MIL feel the way I have in the past years since MIL's treated me the way she has.  But she doesn't.  MIL puts on this super-dee-duper-sweet and helpful and social facade around my family.  Its disgusting for me to watch.  It makes my father and stepmother uncomfortable and my mother and stepfather very angry.  They're not fooled by her clever act, not for a sec, and neither is DH.

But that awkwardness doesn't keep them away.  Its more important for them to be there for events such as moving, birthday parties, etc.  I'm so thankful they didn't let that awkward situation keep them away.  I need them there for support.  I need DH to see what real support is and how it acts.  DH's is family (his immediate nuclear family) are all too caught up in MIL's drama to be loving and supportive of him, and so my FOO has taken him in.  DH's FOO is NOT happy about that either of course, but his family are being jerks so mine is the only one's he's really got right now. 

Belle, I'm sorry your DH can't get the support he needs from his own FOO. I think my DS gets what he needs from his ILs too, since we aren't able to give any more financially. It makes me very sad that he is more involved w/DIL's FOO than with his own. They are more than happy to take over & don't seem to understand that he still has a FOO that loves him. We miss him.

I think it's important for us to keep peace when and where we have the ability. When adults continuously act inappropriately during a child's visitation the court sometimes makes the visitations supervised. I see this situation as you are having supervised visitations for the sake of your family, keeping peace where possible. What could be wrong with that?  :-X

Quote from: QuietStorm on August 14, 2011, 05:26:50 PM
We sat for coffee my MIL and I this past weekend.  We were trying to do it once a year as a "state of the family" kind of thing.  I thought it was a thoughtful idea so we don't ever really dwell on bad things - we talk them out and then move forward.  Well MIL was upset by a whole slew of things...Long story short.  We ended up talking about how MIL felt she was in competition with my family and what not and I tried to assuage those fears as best I could, but I told her that I wished DH had a closer relationship with his family, but that it wasn't something I really had any control over.  She replied, "He did until he met you..." not angrily but very as a matter of fact...this isn't something she hasn't said in the past, but I believed that the last time she said it was the last time she was ever going to say it.  Now I'm so upset I've decided to cut her off...it's unfortunate but if after 9 years of being with DH she can't change her mind about me "tearing the family apart" then I won't spend a minute longer trying to make good of it.

I had an insight  -- maybe it is not you, but your DH who is not adjusting to situation --- sometimes sons have a difficult time letting go of Mom. 
How about hold him responsible to keep that connection with MIL so you don't have a cut-off, you just realign with him taking responsibility
to communicate and include Mom.  Just a thought...

Quote from: Pooh on August 15, 2011, 06:55:37 AM
I would like to hear the rest too.  My first thoughts were just like Scoop's, "Really?  Cut-off for that?"  I was reading all that as a positive until then because I would love to be able to sit down with my DIL and air out our differences.  If I told her it was not they way until she came along, I would love for her to say, "Ok, that is so not true.  I try all the time to get him to call you and come see you and he says no."  My perceptions could be totally wrong, because being honest with you here....I do feel like my OS changed after meeting her.  That's all I have is the perception because they will not communicate.  I have only saw what I can see with my eyes, but there could be so much more to it.  I will never know if they are not willing to talk about it.  Even if she will not believe you, you could have told her that it wasn't the truth and you wished she didn't believe that and moved on.  I would have told her that I didn't know what else to say to make her believe me, so I was going to just say that I was sorry that she felt that way. 

Please come back and tell us more because my second thought was maybe this was the last straw and you have already had that conversation with her.  Maybe she has tormented you for 9 years and then I would totally understand being done with her.    I also would like to hear what DH thinks of the cutoff?  Did he want it too?

I don't know about telling it like it is, seems very dangerous.  Words get spoken, feelings get hurt, I wasn't raised that way so seems like dangerous
territory.  How about asking clarifying questions in the moment...Did I just hear you say you expect me to do the Thanksgiving dinner?  Rather
than holding onto perceptions and the feelings until there is an airing.  Sounds too intense for the situation.  That's just me.  I avoid conflict. 

I too would love to talk it out with DS & DIL, but I will never bring it up and would hesitate to join in if the conversation ever started. DH & I decided to accept DIL back w/no questions asked after her "I hate them" comment and subsequent shunning. I'm pretty certain to discuss it would be to lose both she and DS. DH & I have let it go (although I'd still love to know what it was all about) so we can continue to see DS.

Quote from: Pooh on August 18, 2011, 05:57:30 AM
I think everyone of us here that have DIL/MIL issues have recognized that our DS is the middle man that could control the entire situation if they choose to.  They could be taking a stance against their Mother for the mistreatment of their wife.  They could be taking a stance against their wife for the mistreatment of their Mother.  Whatever the situation is.  Choosing to stay out of it and ignoring there is a problem is the worst for all involved.  It allows a not-nice DIL to alienate his family or it allows a not-nice MIL to interfere in there marriage and cause chaos.

It boggles my mind that they can't figure that out.  In the cases where DS actually ends up being the problem, maybe as in he chooses not to visit his family or making bad decisions, step up and take responsibility.  Using my situation as an example, I would love for one of two things to happen. 

#1.  I would love for DS to show up and say, "I want you to know something.  I love you but I just don't enjoy spending time with you, my brother or any of our family.  I'm the one that doesn't want to come to family events.  DIL has been pushing me saying that I needed to, but I just don't want to."  Wow!  It would give us an opportunity to actually have a conversation on what made him feel that way, and it would give me the chance to say, "Ok, that's fine then.  At least you are honest.  You don't have any obligations to visit or come to family events, and I will not ask any more.  I would like an occasional phone call or text, just to know you are alive and well, if that's not too much to ask?"  I would hate to know he felt that way, but by georgie, at least I would know.  It would also allow me to ask if DIL felt the same way or would it be appropriate to communicate with her?

#2.  I would love for DS to show up and say,  "I have had a talk with DIL.  She just doesn't like you or my family and I told her that's ok.  She didn't have to visit or call but I was still going to.  I've been staying away so that I didn't upset her, but I told her I missed my family and wasn't going to do that any more." 

Wouldn't it be nice to know that they could take responsibility for whatever their role is in the situation?  I have no clue which situation is true in my case.  I do know due to history, that DIL doesn't like me and I don't care for her much either.  The difference between us is that I will always be polite and civil if she chooses to change her mind and would give her another chance.  She had a pattern of cutting off people that don't worship her or do exactly what she wanted.  Maybe she's changed in the last couple of years?  I will never know if she doesn't try again.  I do know that my DS is playing a role in this and whichever it is, #1 or #2, he is sitting back and doing nothing.  That in itself, makes him guilty.

P.S.  There is a #3 that I would take, but at the same time would be the hardest for me.  DIL could show up and say, "MIL, I want you to know I've been trying to get DS to come see you guys.  I've tried to get him to call.  He just refuses and I can't get him to do it.  It's caused problems for us."  I would tell her I was sorry that it was causing issues in their marriage and for her to not continue to do that.  I would thank her for trying and tell her that I was glad she came to me to let me know.  I would tell her she was always welcome in my house or to call, but only if it didn't cause problems between them and that she could do it honestly without sneaking around.  That situation would truly be the hardest, because I would want her to feel welcome but not be a intrusion on their marriage.  It would make my DS truly guilty for putting her in the middle.

This is a while back Pooh, but am getting caught up here.  I wanted to say you have articulated this so very well.  What do you think, you do the conversatino without waiting for DS or DIL to start it.  You just bring it up?  Why not?  You can see all siddes of it, and are ready to comrpomise.  You can make that first step forward, maybe? 

Quote from: Pooh on August 19, 2011, 08:33:54 AM
For me, it would make it easier.  I have dropped my expectations from them, but yet, there is still always going to be a little nagging voice in my brain that says, "What if they just decided to show up at Mom's for Thanksgiving this year?"  "What if I run into them at the mall?  Are they going to turn and go the other way or stop and be civil for a minute?"  What if????  I have let go of the why's, but there still remains the what if's.  What if they have children, will they change their mind.  What if I am in the hospital and they show up?  I don't expect them to, but it's like my brain has to formulate a plan for the what if's.  If I know the truth, then the what if's wouldn't matter and I would know they were not coming because they said they were not.  I would know that they would probably speak to me if I ran into them.  Just civilly but not an issue if we both commicated our wishes.

If they said, we are not coming to family events...ok, then I wouldn't be second guessing the holiday.  Do I get to go and enjoy myself and be me and not worry about it?  Am I going to walk in and find them there all of a sudden and have to concentrate on being civil and can I even speak to them at this point?  I guess that might sound kind of dumb, but I am one of these people that want to know the truth.  I wanted my Doctor to say yesterday, "I have no interest in treating you" if he didn't so I could move on.  I don't want him to dilly-dally around but yet really had no intention of going out of his way.  Be honest and let me move on.  It's like my disease.  I didn't want one but I needed the diagnosis to know what I could do next.  If it's DS and DIL has been trying, then I could let go of my way of thinking that she could be behind this.  I'm telling you, if I ran into her Mother at the mall today, I would turn and go the other way because of my history with her.  If I knew that DIL was actually caught in the middle, I would stop and try to talk to her Mother and apologize to her for behaving so coldly in the past after our rifts.  If I'm wrong in my assumptions, I want to apologize.  Doesn't mean they have to accept it, but I would like the opportunity to do that.

This has nothing to do with DS/DIL and more to do with my personality.  I'm like that about everything.  I was more mad at my Ex for not telling me that he had met someone that he thought he wanted to get to know, than the actual affair.  We had had conversations about friends having affairs and I had always told him that if he ever met someone, I would want to know.  If he could come in and tell me, before doing anything, that he had met someone that he thought he wanted to see or get to know better...tell me.  Would it hurt any less?  No and yes.  It would still hurt but at least I would know he respected me and at one time loved me enough to be honest.  I told him I would be upset but that I would be willing to be civil about the whole thing and work through the divorce with him and be fair.    I told him that if he ever did have an affair and I caught him, then all bets were off and it wouldn't be pretty.  I know that's probably a weird thing to tell your DH but I believe in honesty and that's how I feel about affairs.  Why would I want to be with someone that wanted to be with someone else?  He actually agreed and said he felt the same way.  Liar.

I enjoy your hashing things out here.  My ex told me he had an affair immediately after *making whoopie* with me.  I was sick at that time, though because all I said was about him.  Nothing about my feelings.  -- I said That must have been hard for you to tell me that.  Heck, what about my feelings?  I was sick, not in touch with my own feelings, so out of touch with me.  So he got a second chance, with the warning that we wouldn't talk about it if there was a next time, it would be a case for the lawyers and divorce.  So a year later, he brought someone home to the house to screw, and my 13 year old walked in on them.  So t didn't make a difference whether he told me or not, as he was going to do what he was going to do, and take our kids and home for ransom.   

No smiles, any stepping forward is on their part now.  I did the the dance for three years, trying to communicate and find out what was wrong or what worked for them.   My dance card is now full.

Pooh, I respect your feelings.  Taking *no action* is an action and sometimes is for the best.  I couldn't bring myself to call my sister on her birthday
over the weekend because of the distance and lack of connecting over the years.  So I respectfully protected myself and kept my distance.  I had
mailed her a birthday card earlier, and made an extra effort with email on her birthday.  She replied the next day which is appreciated, but I
don't see any encouragement to get more involved.  At some point, you may have reached it, that enough is enough, and no more can be
expected.  It is what it is.  peace     

I'm glad she replied.  It boils down to personality types too smiles.  I am a very straight forward person.  I would rather confront someone and deal with a situation, even if the outcome isn't great than let it lay and fester.  That's just me and I have always been that way.  So for me, a honest conversation, even if it's something I don't want to hear is something I can accept and respect.   I can actually not really care for someone, but see they have a good heart, integrity and have a great respect for that person and get along with them just fine.  It's when I can't find anything to like or respect about them that I have a problem.  I don't like nor respect my DS/DIL right now.

More than once, I have gotten to, "I love you but/and I don't love what you are doing or who you have become." I don't necessarily say it to others...but I face and accept it within myself.

Luise, my parents said that to us kids a lot.  "I love you, but I don't like x behavior."  Seemed to work on most of us.

Pam I think mine was more like, "I love you but I'm getting ready to kill you!"

"...because I do not like/love what you are doing and/or who you have become."

I sometimes look myself in the mirror and say that!   >:(

LOL Pooh!  Do you ever catch yourself saying stuff to your kids that your parents used to say?  I've been catching myself a bunch recently and wow, I think I'm turning into my Dad!

Oh yeah...I did.  I about died the first time I yelled out, "If you don't stop crying, I'm going to give you something to cry about!"  because I swore that was the stupidest thing I had ever heard in my life!

Quote from: luise.volta on August 30, 2011, 12:37:27 PM
More than once, I have gotten to, "I love you but/and I don't love what you are doing or who you have become." I don't necessarily say it to others...but I face and accept it within myself.

I have said that to myself on more than one occasion.  That and lately I catch myself looking in the mirror and going, "Suck it up cupcake!"

I do the same thing but i say." Suck it up, Rye Crisp!"

It brought a smile to my face reading this thread,how alike our parents we sometimes are,But we try to avoid somethings, that I know I didn't like, however end up doing, but I like to think  ,I'm not to big to apologise, as I have to my ds's when I'm  wrong.

I wish some dil here were my 'future' dils, you appear kind thoughtful and caring, to sit and have chat coffee, be mindful. respectful, and thoughtful, is all I know I would like & love :) in my ds partner.

I have told my ds I love you with every bone in my body, but I do not like who you have become lately or your abusive disrespectful behaviour.

I don't know to much about 'mil' or your relationship, but to me if she wanted to say that, it could have been said more diplomatically, either by, I know ds has changed, but I'm glad he met you, and we have become friends, I enjoy our get togethers and you making the time and effort to include me, or words to that effect.

Just the other day talking to my DH we brought up the whole decision on my part to distance myself from MIL.  He asked if I felt like I was being hypocritical saying I wanted MIL to be honest with me and then getting angry at what she tells me.  I told him that my anger is not stemming from her being honest.  It's the fact that she's been dishonest for 3 or 4 years, saying that she didn't feel that way anymore, and then *bam* saying it again like nothing.  It's the way she says those things.  It's the anger and the resentment that she harbors but says she isn't.  I just don't have the patience to deal with it...and so the distance is a better response than the alternative.

hi 'quiet',
I understand that, I too would feel aggrieved if after all those years,of saying it was not true anymore,and then wham.I perceive that for you it felt like, what have I been doing all these years I have tried my best but it's still not good enough.
Can I say from my own point of view, I am a bit 'out there', I try to be careful in the way I word things, but I beleive I would have maybe said, that, but also added like how much I enjoy your company,that you are my dil, and lots  good things, along those lines, years ago, not waited until now.

I am really a believer in honesty,I tell ds's be honest now, as when the truth finally outs, it's more painful.
I had a very untrustworthy childhood,lies/deceit, therefore it's major for me.

Just  a thought, if you do have some kind of relationship with your mil now, is she approachable whereby you can mention how that comment made you feel, especially as you had asked her in the past,and to lay anything else on the table now, so it can be resolved, and you can get back to your 'coffee dates'.
I do hope you can find a resolution for you both.

That's it with me too, the dishonesty drives me over the edge.  The last conversation I had with my OS was in regards to FB.  I had been using the email system there to keep them informed of holiday plans and what all was going on during the holidays on our side of the family (we did some changing of venues this year).  The emails were telling them times and places, what was going on and asking if they were going to make it so food quantities could be planned.  Followed by if they already had plans with DIL's family on those dates, when would be a good weekend to get together with them?  Really, that was the gist and was sent to both of them at the same time. 

After two months of not hearing from them (these were send at the end of October about Thanksgiving and end of November about Christmas) and they never showed up for anything, I went on FB and they had both deleted me.  So I called OS and asked what the deal was?  His reply was no, nothing wrong, that he completely deleted his account and DIL was removing everyone but her Mother and Brother.  He said they had been having some issues with some people on their FB giving them problems and they were tired of dealing with it.  Ok, so I clarified with him, "So nothing to do with me or our family?"  He replied absolutely not.  So we talked about why no answer about the holidays and he went on and on about how busy they were, and how DILs family had planned all kinds of things and they just got swamped.  We then had a discussion about how that was fine, but he could have at least replied and let me know they were not going to make it and also how we still had gifts for them, and let me know when would be good to get together with his MeMaw.  He was non-committal, so I let it go and we talked about his work and other things.

So, two weeks later, I look at DIL's facebook (Yes, I did because something just wasn't sounding right during the phone conversation.  His voice reminded me of when he was 5 and got caught doing something.)  It wasn't private so I can see all her friends.  Yeah, she still had 230 something friends.  It was down by 12 people.  Everyone from my side of the family had been deleted.  No one else.  So I waited a couple of more weeks, and sure enough, she had even been adding friends.  I was furious!  Like QuietStorm, I was angry over the lie.  It wasn't about her deleting all of us, it was the fact my OS said she was getting rid of everyone and had nothing to do with us...blah blah.  It was a flat out lie.  She deleted me, my DH, my YS, nieces and nephews, the whole lot.  I was getting emails from my nieces asking what was going on.  I told them I had no idea they would have to ask her.  They are both military families and have not had much interaction with DIL but grew up close to my Sons.  I was so mad.  I shot off a text to him and said, "Ok, I tried to find out a month ago what was going on.  You lied to me and I do not appreciate it.  It is very obvious that a clear message is being sent that you guys want nothing to do with our family.  That is fine, but you could have just told the truth.  I wish you the best in life and know that I will always love you.  Mom."

I got a text back quickly asking what I was talking about.  I explained about the FB thing and told him that it was their business who they had on there, but the lie was unacceptable.  He acted like he knew nothing about it and said he would find out why she did it.  I told him not to bother because I was tired of trying to figure out what was going on, and that DIL's FB was her business.  I just wanted him to know why I wasn't going to contact them any further.  Told him I would always be there if he changed his mind, but I was tired of the games.  He replied something and I never answered.

That was the last contact I had.  Now, the prior 3 years, I had caught them in lie after lie about things, so this was not a one-time deal.  It was a pattern with them and it was continuing.  I knew I had to break the cycle because the only person it was affecting was me.  It was painful that they didn't want to be part of the family, but they turned it into anger with the lying.  So Quiet, I totally understand that you want out of the game.  I don't blame you.

You gave it your all, Pooh...that's all you have to give. Sending love...

Yep!  I did!  ;D

See Pooh...you are my hero.  You did just what you had to do.  Doing what you did sometimes works, sometimes it doesn;t .  In my case...taking a drastic measure or decision worked out for me.  I am a gambler..... all or nothing....   And also, sometimes we do not have much to lose...if our son/dil are not giving us anything, what are we really losing?  crumbs? And sometimes not even crumbs lol.

Pam 1, yes sometimes I caught myself saying or doing something my mother use to say or do and thinking Ï am becoming just like my mom, eventhough I had sworn not to be like her (in some aspects).  At least we reflect and try to change those  things we most hated about our parents when we were growing up. 

Love you all

Pooh, I read your post very carefully and it was very close to home with me.  By the way, I think you story could also be entitled' hopes that were dashed'.  Recently my DS axed me from his FB, I have only recently even learned what FB is, and I used to enjoy looking at his pictures and reading some of his posts to his friends.  He never communicated to me on there, and I was shocked he even accepted me as 'friend', but anyway he blew me off recently.  Silly, but it cut like a knife again.  I'm sorry you had to feel this also, but I'm proud and envious of your power and style.  My own heart still aches like a tooth ache.  I never asked him why or anything because he never answered my emails, he just sporadically wrote some line without any salutation now and then that was always something to the effect of 'life sucks school is crap, wish I could quit'.   That's my average communication.  And by the way, this is from a 30 yr old DS, not a kid.  OK, enough of that.  Keep writing, Pooh, as your posts help me a lot.

I find FB can really get out of hand too.  It is not such a blessing to be privy to info about family and friends.  I would feel done with the game
playing too when there have been lies after lies, and such total disregard for good communication.  Pulling back and giving everyone time and space
to consider what happened and how you feel sounds very appropriate.  Peace   

I have also gotten the terrible awful unthinkable "Facebook Unfriending" from my DIL but have to say that it just made me chuckle.  I recognize that it was a very significant action for her but to me, it was just more evidence of her lack of ability to come face to face and talk about things

Most DIL's delete IL's from FB because of the spying, gossiping, and taking every post/status update personally. Not to 'stick it' to their IL's. . . just to further protect themselves so that they can freely express something without getting into trouble. For example, I posted as my status "I'm so excited for this weekend" and got into trouble with my IL's. I didn't know my MIL was leaving town for the weekend, but my MIL took it as an insult and thought I posted that because I was happy she was leaving, when in reality my DH had work off and we were planning on going to an amusement park. I also got yelled at by my MIL for a quote I had on my info page that I added 8 years ago, when I was still married to my 1st DH.

However, there are some DIL's out there that will un-friend just to be outright mean. But from what I've read most un-friend for the same reason I did.

Quote from: Rejected on September 01, 2011, 11:52:06 AM
Most DIL's delete IL's from FB because of the spying, gossiping, and taking every post/status update personally. Not to 'stick it' to their IL's. . . just to further protect themselves so that they can freely express something without getting into trouble. For example, I posted as my status "I'm so excited for this weekend" and got into trouble with my IL's. I didn't know my MIL was leaving town for the weekend, but my MIL took it as an insult and thought I posted that because I was happy she was leaving, when in reality my DH had work off and we were planning on going to an amusement park. I also got yelled at by my MIL for a quote I had on my info page that I added 8 years ago, when I was still married to my 1st DH.

However, there are some DIL's out there that will un-friend just to be outright mean. But from what I've read most un-friend for the same reason I did.

That's exactly why I unfriended my MIL a few years back.  I figured our relationship would be better if she found out what we were doing and what was going on in our lives directly instead of having to interpret my FB statuses or quotes.  I ended up blocking her and SIL for our sanity.  I've kept other ILs on but with limited ability to see things on my page.

Facebook has a lot to answer for ....I avoid it like the plague !
Still here guys .....lol....:)

I'm sure that does go on tons with MILs and DILs alike taking offense to things.  I had posted maybe 10 posts to her wall in 2 years and every one of them was a holiday, birthday or anniversary offerings "Happy's" and hoping it was great.  That's it.  I tagged pictures to her that she was in, which she removed...lol. Although she did copy all of their wedding pics I took and upload them to hers....ha ha ha.   I've never posted anything about either one of them on my page nor any family situation outside of "Congrats" on something.  I don't air dirty laundry on FB because I don't think it's the place.  So in my case, no gossiping or anything like that happened.

Doe, I did snicker when I deleted her Mother from mine just not long ago :)   I couldn't help myself.

Facebook just seems so full of drama, but I'm sure it's all in how it's used.  I guess today one of my brothers girlfriends posted something that she is 6 weeks preggo.  No idea if it is a joke or not, but she's got our whole family talking about it and going to check out her fb page LOL.  I even looked!  If it's true, I'm happy for them but I don't understand posting it on fb.  That's the kind of news that I'd want to share in person.

But, they aren't me.  Now I'm really going to crack up if it is all a joke which I kind of suspect it is.  My sister would leave her phone laying around all the time or forget at my house or car so I started posting statuses for her.  I guess other people do that too.

I'm still avoiding FB. My friends insist I'm missing out, and I know I'd enjoy catching up with old friends and long lost family - but the risk for hurt is too great and I'm a big wimp.

Quote from: pam1 on September 01, 2011, 03:41:44 PM
I guess today one of my brothers girlfriends posted something that she is 6 weeks preggo. 

LOL... One of his girlfriends?   He's got some splainin' to do with the rest of them!

Quote from: pam1 on September 01, 2011, 03:41:44 PM
Facebook just seems so full of drama, but I'm sure it's all in how it's used.  I guess today one of my brothers girlfriends posted something that she is 6 weeks preggo.  No idea if it is a joke or not, but she's got our whole family talking about it and going to check out her fb page LOL.  I even looked!  If it's true, I'm happy for them but I don't understand posting it on fb.  That's the kind of news that I'd want to share in person.

But, they aren't me.  Now I'm really going to crack up if it is all a joke which I kind of suspect it is.  My sister would leave her phone laying around all the time or forget at my house or car so I started posting statuses for her.  I guess other people do that too.

Pam, every year there is a "woman" thing that goes around on FB to raise awareness for cancer.  Last year, it made national news as women were supposed to post their bra color.  This week is awareness week again, and the one this year is to use a list that's been generated, using your birthday month and day.  The month coincides with a week and the day coincides with a candy or food! Lol.  Then you post it to your status and yes, it looks like everyone is announcing pregnancies!  Mine says, "I am 1 week and craving peanut butter cups!"

So if her status looks like that, she is probably participating in the cancer awareness week!  If it doesn't...umm....I'm with Doe, one of his girlfriends?

QuoteMost DIL's delete IL's from FB because of the spying, gossiping, and taking every post/status update personally. Not to 'stick it' to their IL's. . . just to further protect themselves so that they can freely express something without getting into trouble. For example, I posted as my status "I'm so excited for this weekend" and got into trouble with my IL's. I didn't know my MIL was leaving town for the weekend, but my MIL took it as an insult and thought I posted that because I was happy she was leaving, when in reality my DH had work off and we were planning on going to an amusement park. I also got yelled at by my MIL for a quote I had on my info page that I added 8 years ago, when I was still married to my 1st DH.

However, there are some DIL's out there that will un-friend just to be outright mean. But from what I've read most un-friend for the same reason I did.

Same here.  I hardly ever post a status update on Facebook, but boy when I did, there was hell to pay each and every time.  Every post was skewed, taken out of context, and scrutinized.  And my MIL uses FB for her own public wrecking ball, she just puts all the dirty laundry out there on FB to air out...but of course she never mentions any specific names, but its really quite obvious when she posts "I cannot believe the DISRESPECT of some people...what kind of people keep their children away from their grandparents!?!?!?!".  She posted this within an hour of a phone conversation DH had with her where he told her that she was no longer welcome in our home until she could behave better.  DH flat called her out on her post, and told her to remove it immediately, that it was not acceptable for her to air that out on FB.  She reponds "that wasn't about you.  You're so conceited, you just think everything's about you you you!" 

LOL - yeah ok......BLOCKED!   You and your little dog too!   ;D

Now her "henchmen" (mostly her nieces) have started the same crapola.  I block them at will.  Then, when they figure out they are blocked, they send nasty emails....which I report to Google as harrassment every.single.time.they.send.  and just tuck them away in a safe place...you know, in case I ever need them.    ;)

I just realized I'm a "dirt hoarder."  I've stashed away videos of MIL's tantrums, nasty letters, harrassing emails, text messages, voicemails...I'm working on a serious pile of incriminating evidence. 

Belle, I sit back all the time at some of the peeps on my FB and their statuses and shake my head at what they put on there.  There statuses are always "woe is me" or "life is not fair" or some kind of family drama.  It amazes me that anyone would put some of the stuff they do out there. 

Although I have to admit....me and DH get the TMI comments from everyone! Lol.  He's really bad about putting something on his about me that will say something like "Zumba was fun last night, but more fun watching my wife move like she did...MEOW!"   He does that all the time and I used to get on to him because our friends were always commenting "Gross, TMI, Thanks for that image! etc."  So he quit and after a couple of weeks we started getting comments from our friends about how they missed our funny statuses!  Lol.

I think FB really gets to me sometimes.  I have been uplifted and put down by what I have read there.  I will monitor but not get into FB so much
anymore because of the rollercoaster.  It is the modern day Soap Opera, reality show bytes. 

I have to admit that I have been dirt hoarding too & just yesterday I came across some doozies.  Sad for me to have kept them and sadder to have
memories of it, but I don't think I need the reminders anymore.  So, today is CLEAN UP day.  I am going to throw out any dirt I don't
seriously need - thanks for the motivation.  (You might ask Who Needs Dir anyways?)  I do think I need to use my energy more to nurture ME. 
It is a great feeling to *clean house* and throw things away that I just don't need so I will get to it.  I really appreciate sharing my feelings here,
but really don't want to hoard.  That's true. 

Smiles-

That's a great idea.   Dirt seems to collect more dirt, doesn't it?

I feel sorry for these DILs/MILs who have their family problems hashed out on FB.   I'm not one of those!  My DIL asked to friend me, asked to label me "Mom", sent photos daily. All I really do is read what people are doing and wish people happy birthday.  Just saying not all MILs use FB to destroy their families.

Quote from: Pooh on September 02, 2011, 07:46:56 AM

Quote from: pam1 on September 01, 2011, 03:41:44 PM


Pam, every year there is a "woman" thing that goes around on FB to raise awareness for cancer.  Last year, it made national news as women were supposed to post their bra color.  This week is awareness week again, and the one this year is to use a list that's been generated, using your birthday month and day.  The month coincides with a week and the day coincides with a candy or food! Lol.  Then you post it to your status and yes, it looks like everyone is announcing pregnancies!  Mine says, "I am 1 week and craving peanut butter cups!"

So if her status looks like that, she is probably participating in the cancer awareness week!  If it doesn't...umm....I'm with Doe, one of his girlfriends?

Pooh, I'm glad you explained this bc I was seeing on FB women craving such and such and some were waaay too old to be pg!  So now I get it; if I post something about craving, think I'll post something about it being for breast cancer awareness or I'll get some strange questions!

I have gotten off and on FB a few times bc I get paranoid about privacy/identity theft and i saw the movie "Social Network" which reinforced the "shallowness" of it all; and I hated the way it all got started.  But if people realize it's just for shallow convos and encouragement and not go baring souls and venting and such, ok. 

I still worry about posting children's pics but I'm careful about my privacy settings and am not posting much about gc; and not mentioning where they live.  I mainly want to do the thumbs up or send an IM.  To dils, I send mostly IMs and try not to post on their sites bc I don't want them to think I'm intruding; both think FB is fine to include me, so I think I'll mainly lurk and post to people from hs and college and career days and leave the young, including dils and sons, more alone.

Did "friend" my ILs just to be friendly and to do the thumbs up; but am not gonna get into personal comments on their pages..... the cousins and siblings of my dils are way too young to be my "buddies"..... FB is touchy!

BTW, I learned that identity theft is possible w FB if you give the date you were born; month and day are ok.  Also, if you are going on vacation, don't post about it till you've returned bc there are hackers out there that can find out where you live!  Yep, have heard a lot of true stories!  So I keep personal info to myself or to IMs (hope they aren't hacked.)  For personal comments/info, I rely more on emails or phone calls...... still don't trust the beast!

Yeah, it's been funny.  The bra color thing went national last year because you purposefully were not supposed to let any men know what you were doing...same thing this year! Lol.  Of course my DH knows it's not possible for me to get preggo, so he got a kick out of it and was posting behind me, "Honey...I finally did it!  Twins???  I have their names picked out."  He's not right!

I will tell you I got a text from my YS and I'm still laughing.  It read...Oooookkkk....are you preggo or dieting?  I laughed my hiney off.  I sent back that it was a joke going on amongst women and asked if I gave him a heart attack.  He replied "A little bit" then followed that with "I knew better than you would just announce it on FB, but I thought I would ask!" 

Bless it's heart. 

Yep, my son would die of embarrassment if he thought I was insinuating I were pg!  I thought those ladies were either pg or fasting for some cause; too early for Lent!  Couldn't figure out the craving for licorice and such!  (I recently got back on and hadn't read the joke wherever it was posted!)  When I got back on, I let FB search my email addresses for "friends" and it sent a friend request to one of my sons (maybe both.)  One doesn't post at all and has no info on his page.  One friended me; I wasn't gonna do that bc he's not a big FB fan (his wife actually posts for him!); but am not gonna post much if any on his page just bc he's a private guy easily embarrassed (maybe an IM to say, "Call us!")  Love those pm's bc people on FB tend to see messages there and don't check their email much.....

Haha, you guys are very funny!  He only has one girlfriend although he changes frequently lol.  This one is a gem though, I hope she sticks around.

And yes, Pooh..you were right!  It was the breast cancer awareness status she posted.  However, my family is still in a tizzy lol, well most of them that don't use facebook so it's the older crowd in my fam.  My Dad said my Grandpa already went out and bought cigars LOL (this is an old family tradition)

I didn't have those problems with my MIL, but with my own mother. My mother was jealous of my relationship with my in-laws. I guess your MIL is jealous of the relationship your DH has with your family. I cut my mother off and I don't blame you one bit. You do have to do what you need to do to mentally to have a happy and healthy life. Until she sees that there is enough love to go around and no need for jealously, she can't play with you. It's amazing how sometimes grown adults act like children on a playground. You did what you had to do for your sanity. If she thinks that just by marrying her son, you ripped her family apart, she needs to grow up, no matter how old she is. I did it with my own mother for various reasons, but one reason was the awful jealously she had towards my DH's family. When your MIL is ready to play nice and accept you as a daughter and not as an intrusion, then you can rethink things. You're so right there.